Recapping the 2024 ISS World Expo

The ISS World Expo sets the stage.

After attending the ISS World Expo in Las Vegas, Scott shares a comprehensive breakdown of the event, highlighting the vibrant community and the dynamic evolution of the self-storage industry.

From technological advancements to the strategic discussions about the future of self-storage investments, Scott's offers a firsthand account of the industry's pulse. His focus on community, networking, and the significance of staying ahead of market trends provides invaluable guidance for anyone looking to scale in this sector.

Listen For:
3:52 Education and Strategy - Choosing Your Path at the Expo
5:02 The Great Rollup - Discussing Industry Consolidation
9:12 Business as Usual? - Self-Storage in Today's Economy

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Transcript

Intro (00:07):

This is the Self-Storage Podcast where we share the knowledge and skills from the industry's leading investors, developers, and operators to help you launch and grow your self-storage business. Your host, Scott Myers, over the past 18 years has acquired, developed, converted and syndicated nearly 5 million square feet of self-storage nationwide with the help of his incredible team@selfstorageinvesting.com, who has helped thousands of people achieve greatness in self-storage.

Scott Meyers (00:42):

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the self-Storage Podcast. I'm your host, Scott Myers, and on this week's episode, what I'd like to do is to break down the ISS World Expo held in Las Vegas at the Caesars Forum, a beautiful conference center. We're approaching 5,000 self-storage rock stars, investors, developers, syndicators, got together to talk about well self-storage, to give you an idea of the things, the sight, the sounds, and the overall feeling and the overall sentiment, the way I see it, the way I saw it at the show. So I was thankful that my wife was able to go out with me because we launched our education business back in 2007 at the inside self-storage at World Expo, the education arm of our business. And now so many years later, it is so good to see not only the folks that we have got to know in the industry, some of the industry icons and giants that I have the honor to be associated with, but also now to see so many of the folks out there, and I can't say the majority of the folks on the floor, but boy, a whole lot of them that have come through our organization, the nation's largest self-storage education companies, self-storage investing.com, and to see what they've done, how they've grown, how they scaled, but more importantly, the life change that has happened as a result of getting into this incredible industry that is this simple, predictable business model that we all get so excited about, which happens to be just a whole bunch of metal boxes on concrete slabs, but much more as it has evolved over the years.

(02:12):

It's good to get back to the show, even though self-storage, it isn't a very dynamic industry, it doesn't change that much. We're seeing technology that is over the years permeated our industry and just with the onset of technology in general and our day-to-Day work environments, now we're seeing now these targeted and specific technologies making their way into the self-storage industry by way of management and now revenue management for our rental rates as well as quicker ways and more sophisticated ways to be able to analyze a market, to analyze a facility as well as on the construction side, being able to lay out a facility and to dial in the construction dollars when looking at and developing a self-storage facility. And so always good to keep on top of what is happening within the industry, but more importantly, my focus is on the trends.

(03:07):

I'm looking to gain as much knowledge as possible so that I can look a little further down the road so I understand not only what's happening in 2024, the balance of this year, but beyond. And so in the early years when I would go to the show, I would spend a lot of time going into the education tracks, which are phenomenal. However, they're also many times slanted towards the vendors where the representatives of those companies are teaching those sessions. It's not to say that there isn't a lot of good education because there absolutely is, but I find myself not going to those as much and really focusing on the big picture. And so as a result, they have a big picture track and that is a specific breakout session where, and you can choose and you can choose which tracks you want to go to.

(03:52):

There's an investing track, there is a big picture track, there is a construction track, there's a technology track and also an international track. And then throughout the day you can choose that track and which classes you wanted to go to and they are occurring at the same time. So it is good that if you have a few folks in your organization or like myself to bring your spouse along or a business partner, then you can divide and conquer. Otherwise you may miss some of those unless you happen to purchase the video package afterwards. So I spent most of my time as usual in meetings, not inside of the rooms, but outside of the rooms, within the conference center, at dinners, at coffees, catching up with the folks that I know are also on the same page as myself and looking a little further down the track just so I can understand and see what their thought process is, where they think our industry is going, where do they think interest rates are going, what do they think in terms of construction and development, in terms of rental rates and the overall industry and the shifts as we continue to watch this industry continue to scale by way of bundling facilities together and then selling them off to the larger players, the great rollup.

(05:02):

I did a session on the Great Rollup. The great Rollup is definitely in play. And as a matter of fact, two years ago I conducted a session. I was asked to speak on the great rollup and how many folks like myself, we were gathering properties, developing and acquiring properties, and then 3, 4, 5 years later selling them off to a larger player in a portfolio. And we continued to see that happening, that scaling up at scale. And so I want to be able to understand just exactly the rate at which this is happening, who's buying and what I should be looking out for. My wife and I were also honored to be able to get together with some of the folks in the industry that we've been able to get to know over the years, including one of the heads of acquisitions at one of the largest REITs in the country, as well as at that same dinner, a head of one of the largest private REITs in the country and two of the most prominent brokers in the country that are operating under one umbrella who happened to also be members of our mastermind.

(05:59):

And we had an incredible conversation about the industry where it's heading to hear from both sides in terms of me as an investor, both the heads of those REITs as investors and what they're looking for, and then the brokers who are looking to supply product to them as well. And where we saw or where we think that the industry is heading, very beneficial. But then also as I talked with more folks and including a conversation after my session, I happened to the session that I spoke on was the five major threats that are facing our industry. And this is the first time that I've spoken on a topic like that because I've been asked to and the past 10, 11 years that I've been speaking at the Inside Self- Storage Expo on stage, it's been all about either a specific tactic or on ways to be able to grow and scale a business, the keys to success, everything that is I guess you would say, positive in nature.

(06:58):

And so I tend to stay away from, I guess all the reasons why people shouldn't invest in the industry or in other words, anything that would put doubt in people's mind or fear in people's mind as to why they shouldn't get involved in this industry. I don't want to be that guy. It doesn't mean that I'm not aware of. And we all need to be hyper aware of the mistakes, the pitfalls and some of the areas where we can get tripped up. And of course in our education and in our mastermind, we talk an awful lot about that. We want to make sure that it's one thing to get into the business completely. The strategy is all around getting into the business, but that doesn't do you any good if you don't stay in the business because you have a whole bunch of blind spots with regards to all the threats that are facing us.

(07:41):

So I decided to do a session on the five threats that are facing us, and it's nothing that we haven't seen and know or are experiencing right now, which are rising interest rates, rising insurance costs. And so I did a little deeper dive into what that looks like and how long we expect that to last. We also looked at the cost of capital and looking at the overall construction costs, which is keeping some of the, well the number of developments and the new starts down, which by the way, as I walked around the trade show floor, unfortunately, and many of the construction companies in the booth, the gentlemen and ladies there were eating out of their own bowl of candy and talking with each other and not with a whole lot of customers, but we all know that that is not the case. And now is absolutely the time to be developing.

(08:26):

We are certainly developing, we have not slowed down right now, but when the masses are looking at construction costs that have risen over the past several years and rising interest rates, well the newbies who don't know really how to put a deal together and have a higher cost of capital because they don't have those good relationships. So they're staying at home and they're not dipping their toe in the water in terms of a development in construction. So that, and the lenders speaking of the trade show floor, the lenders weren't getting too visits in a high interest rate environment, but regardless, all of the major players were there on the trade show floor and all will stay in business and continue to do so because we also know that self-storage is not only inflation resistant, and when I say inflation, meaning when the economy is expanding and doing well, but also recession resistant.

(09:12):

And so these folks aren't there just because they had to. They're there because we're still doing business and self-storage is absolutely open for business in today's economy. And as we head into the recession. So Storage Nation, I am used to talking to you at large and then also coming back off the show talking to several hundred people in our session. But now Doug, I just wanted to know maybe from your perspective, instead of somebody who is completely immersed in self-storage, what kind of questions would you have that you would like me to be able to pull out? And by the way, Doug is our producer, everyone. Doug, are there any questions that you think that would be beneficial for Storage Nation out there to ask as a result of going to the show that maybe I haven't thought of that our audience would,

Doug Downs (09:55):

I think top of mind, how'd you get any sleep while you were in Vegas? I mean, the city just never stops.

Scott Meyers (10:01):

The place is absolutely incredible. I've been going there for a number of years and first time was in my mid twenties and I believe it was for a bachelor party, and I was just amazed at the fact that it doesn't stop. And when I got home from that trip, I thought about it a day later. I thought, they're still going out there. They're still going 24 7. And you know what? They're still going right now. And it is amazing. It is a sensory overload, but just the opulence, what they've built, what they continue to build with a whole lot of money is quite a sight to see. But I don't know if there's a typical Vegas tourist or attendee or visitor, but I just don't gamble. And my wife and I, when she comes out with me, we enjoy going out to dinner. Most of those are with self-storage professionals in the industry, but we enjoy some just incredible restaurants and meals out there. We don't have time for any of the shows, but now I have to go to the show, the Inside Self-Storage Expo. And so I'm not staying up. I'm not staying out. I have to be on my game, especially when I'm speaking and then hanging out at a trade show booth.

Doug Downs (11:11):

And you did mention you had some key conversations with folks over dinner, and that's what I love about these conferences. I get info. I love that people come prepared to give me information, but it's the networking and you had some key dinners talking about numbers that are back to pre covid. There's Momentum Building. Give me some insight from some of those dinners.

Scott Meyers (11:34):

Sure, a hundred percent through the years, I used to attend a lot of the educational sessions, but then I think this is probably the same for everyone. It's not that we know everything, but you spend less time in the education tracks and spending more time having those key conversations to get answers to the questions you have specifically. And the consultants are out there that do the feasibility studies. The brokers are out there, buyers and developers of all sorts that are seeing things and touching more deals and more parts of the industry than we have time to do or as many times as we do to have that experience. And so I'm always seeking even ahead of time to schedule dinners and coffees or even just to get together at our own booth, which is inside the trade show or their booth if they happen to be presenting as well, just to get some answers to selfishly the questions that I have.

(12:23):

And so there's no other time or other place during the year where all of us are able to get together and we can all share that information. And then that brings up another point, Doug. The beauty of our industry, one of the things that I love so much is when I got into this industry coming from single family and multifamily, everybody's so guarded. Everybody's a competitor, they're going to steal my deal and they're bidding everything up, but in self-storage, we didn't. I never found that. And that's because our market, first of all, is a little difference. Our market that we want to dominate in a facility is a five mile radius. It's a five mile radius of our particular facility. And so what are the chances that I'm going to run into a whole lot of competition? And so I think because of that and so many other reasons, people are so willing to share 95, 90 6% of what they're doing in the industry because it may not be a secret, and it's not divulging any trade secret that is going to give anybody a leg up. And we keep four or 5% of our secret sauce, if you will, to ourselves. And so that is why I like to go back there because everybody's so willing and open to share for the betterment of our industry and for the betterment of our friendly competitors as a result of that as well.

Doug Downs (13:36):

Is it only the big people, the big click in self-storage that's attending these conferences? Or is it open and very sharing with, let's face it, the investor who's in their thirties still working a full-time job and wants to make that crossover now to becoming a full-time investor? And that's a big leap.

Scott Meyers (13:57):

It's scary. It is. So there, there's two different shows, big, big trade shows, the Self-Storage Association and then inside Self-storage. And what I've found and what I've seen in the past and still holds true for the most part, is that the Self-Storage Association, it is the trade association. So a number of the larger players become members of the Self-storage Association. I'm a member of the association and we all pay into that. And in addition to education and these trade shows and a magazine, they also lobby on our behalf at the state level and at the federal level for any threats that may be coming down the pike politically or in terms of a law or anything that's going to go against our industry, including again at the local level, if there's some municipalities that are trying to shut us down or keep it so that we can't open and operate our business or in a way that is just almost too expensive to do so.

(14:48):

And so what you see there is less of an entrepreneurial spirit and attendee at that event. It's more of the REITs, the Real Estate Investment Trust, whereas inside Sales Storage, a little more entrepreneurial and the folks, it is not an association. It is a magazine and it is, they have an education arm and they hold this show, and that is all they do. That is specifically what they focus on is getting information out and providing a networking event like this for folks to be able to get together. So that's what I see more of at the Inside Self- Storage Show, and that's why I gravitate towards it, and that's why I speak for it. And I write for Inside Self- Storage Magazine because that's how we came up. That's how our business was formed and growing and scaling. And so we see some of the larger players there.

(15:36):

You don't see many of the heads or the higher ups of those REITs if they're there at all. They're going to be in the hotel rooms having other meetings where the few folks, and they may fly in for one day and fly out, but the VP level, those folks will be president and you'll see 'em on the trade show floor. And they may be speaking, but they're still in meetings outside of the event at dinners and at coffees. And then the traditional staff, if you will, the workers within those organizations doing their roles will be present around and many of their new employees and staff to get trained as well. But what we'll find, and probably because I see this more that they seek me out because this is what we do is train and teach people about the business, is you see those folks, the entrepreneurs that yes, they're coming up from real estate ranks, small business ranks, or they have a W2 and they're just fed up and they look at self-storage as a simple, predictable business model that's very successful, that is very recession resistant. And this seems like a business that is attractive for that purpose that attracts people from all walks of life, if you will.

Doug Downs (16:42):

And a lot of the sessions that were put on, five of them were by members of your mastermind group. You must have been seeing those names up there and counting. You must have been kind of happy about that.

Scott Meyers (16:55):

Yeah, proud Papa here, if you will. It's good to see the kids are growing up. The Mastermind, I put that together selfishly many years ago to put the idea was to put a whole bunch of rock stars in the room that are operating at a high level where we can feed off each other. As we've said before, many times the true Napoleon Hill style Mastermind, and not just a term that is used by some of the other educators in self-storage out there, but true rock stars that are operating at a high level, growing and scaling. And so they get attention in the industry. And so they get asked to come speak on what they're doing in the various aspects of their business. We have capital raisers, we have rockstar managers that are growing and scaling. We have some folks that are running businesses that are focusing on mobile units and unit type franchises and you name it across the board, we've got some marketing experts that continue to getback over and over and over again.

(17:51):

And then we also have a couple of members that are running some sizable organizations with double digit growth that are on the ink of 500 list multiple years. So that's the caliber of folks that we have in our mastermind and those are the rock stars of the industry. And so yeah, pretty cool to see that of all the companies that are out, pretty cool to see that as you look across all the companies that are in self-storage, our mastermind, even though these individuals are working for their own companies, our mastermind represented a larger group of speakers than any other organization out there. So it's always fun to see. And then once again, just kind of exposure and justification as to why other folks, if they're in the industry, why they need to be a part of our mastermind, because that's the caliber folks that are in it.

Doug Downs (18:36):

So that requires the follow up here. Someone listening wants to be part of that mastermind group. And we've published episodes, by the way of this podcast fairly recently. There were glimpses behind the scenes of what Mastermind sounds like and some amazing feedback from those episodes. How do they go about becoming part of the mastermind? They don't just sign up. There's a process to this.

Scott Meyers (18:59):

And that's the beauty of the mastermind is because we've kept at high level once again, and it is an interview process. This is an exclusive group of folks that are in the business. You have to be in self-storage to be a part of our mastermind, which is again, by design of a mastermind. And again, I think the term has gotten overused in so many instances by some of the other educators out there in our industry. Whereas this is the first mastermind in the industry, and it is the only mastermind in the industry, which is that exclusive. So there is an interview process, and just because somebody can write a check to become a part of it and they can make our event dates and they commit to being a part of the community and adhering to the rules, doesn't mean that they get in because they have to contribute and give back.

(19:40):

And so we've kept it exclusive for a reason, and that is why the folks that are in there are growing and scaling at the level is because everybody feeds off of each other. It's not a consumer type event like our self-storage academies where people learn about the business. This is just the opposite, including myself and my role. I am just the moderator and I write the check for the venue and for the cocktails and the dinners at the event. But other than that, I facilitate conversations and I just try to wrangle in these guys that are and gals that are running at a hundred plus miles an hour in our industry and providing value to each other

Doug Downs (20:13):

And works for both passive and active investors.

Scott Meyers (20:16):

It does. And that, yeah, that is by design. And that's what's on our banner out front on our pop-up banners. It's about community capital and deal flow. That's it. It's community of folks like-Minded in the industry dedicated to helping each other, and we bring a lot of capital into the room from outside places and passive investors and equity funds, and we match them up with the deal flow, the deal flow that is in the room that is being generated by the members of the room.

Doug Downs (20:38):

We've had some folks on the podcast already who were at the show, others that we know we've already recorded with are becoming up in later episode that we're at the show. So I've gotten some feedback. I did ask a few, how did your session go? Had Scott do snooping behind the scenes? Well, I've heard universally, yours was like standing room only really heavily attended this five major threats facing the industry. So really good attendance on that one.

Scott Meyers (21:07):

Yeah, when I was talking with Terry Lonza, she's the head of inside self-storage and runs this incredible trade show. She is fantastic by the way. She and her entire staff are absolutely incredible. They able to pull this off every year. I said, Hey, this is a stretch, but lemme know what you think about, this is a topic to speak on now this year. And I say it's a stretch. It's a stretch for me to talk about the threats to the industry because I'm always the guy that wants to talk about the positive side and it's always been tools and tips and tactics and strategies to get into the business and to grow and scale. And then she said, yeah, well, it's timely as we're heading into this timeframe in which interest rates are high, construction development is a little bit more difficult. It's more difficult for folks to be able to refinance at these higher rates and the banks are a little bit skittish.

(21:49):

And so I focused in and did my homework on that. And yeah, the title was The Five Threats that Are Facing Our Industry right now. And I guess it shouldn't be a surprise, Doug, but me being always a glasses half full kind of guy, and when other folks are running out, that's when I'm running in. And that's what our tribe does as well. Either pleasantly or maybe not unpleasantly surprised to see that the room was standing room only. And it's funny, I was joking afterwards, after my session, there was a break, but then following me was Scott Zucker was one of the leading attorneys in our industry. And over the years I've always joked that this is the most widely attended session to go to because everybody wants to their justification as to why they're not going to get in the industry or why they're not doing well because of all the things that the attorneys are talking about that and apparently they're giving free advice about all the bad things that can happen.

(22:49):

But session after session year after year, you see that. So I was talking with Scott and I said, well, I guess it works. That just goes to show that in the news, if it bleeds, it leads, if you talk about the bad and the negative, you'll fill the room. And sure enough, I said, my room's attendance finally rivaled yours. And we had a little laugh about that. And then the things that I was talking about is the five threats. He said, well, three of those are ones that I'm going to be talking about as well. So unfortunately you're stealing a little bit of my thunder, but that is where we're at right now where we do need to be mindful of those things. So yeah, so good or bad, we need to be prepared and we need to uncover my role in this was just to uncover the blind spots in our industry to make sure that people stay in the industry and don't make any silly moves.

Doug Downs (23:30):

And I think a good future episode, it's not just what are they, because as you said, there's somewhat awareness of them. How do you manage in light of them? Right. That would be a great, just like your talk was.

Scott Meyers (23:42):

Yeah. Well, let's give a little bit of time. I don't think I'm supposed to give my presentation from the ISS stage than on our own podcast, but we will definitely touch on those.

Doug Downs (23:53):

Perfect. That sounds like an excellent show. It sounds like it went really well.

Scott Meyers (23:57):

It really was a good show, Doug. And as I mentioned on the beginning, and then I think I started down another rabbit trail, is that I'm going out there to find, take the temperature of all the other folks that are at the same level as myself and above just to see if I'm on the right track, if I'm going at the right speed, if I'm looking in the right places, if there are any other opportunities out there. There's a whole lot of things that I'm not good at. There's a whole lot of things that I'm still learning about. But what I am good at and that I recognize is that when I see a pow of money in the corner, I'm the one who's going to stand up and go over and pick it up. And so I'm always looking for these opportunities. And a lot of that that I'm seeing right now in the industry is places that are neglected and areas of our industry that are neglected right now.

(24:42):

And those are the areas that we are moving fast and at scale. And so the folks that I had conversations with, they're moving at about the same speed as we are and as they have in the past because they do have capital, they've got access to capital, they've got access to inexpensive capital. And at the end of the day, that was really the biggest, probably the biggest discussion point, if you will, in all of the conversations that I had, we got used to doing business for many, many years where interest rates were at 4%, and you could be at a bank loan at 80 to 90% LTV. Now that rates are at 8%, seven and a half, 8%, and the banks are underwriting at 65 to 70% LTV. We didn't have to learn how to underwrite again, but as we change the inputs, those inputs, a lot of the deals that we were looking at before at this price and with this much room to create value, they just don't pencil out.

(25:37):

And that includes a lot of development projects as well. So we know and we're seeing them, and we have seen a number of projects that are coming our way that are abandoned development projects, abandoned conversion projects where that cost of capital and a lower LTB didn't give these developers enough runway to be able to finish the project out. And so we've had several looks, and we are purchasing a few of those projects right now that we're going to pick up the ball and run with it and take it down the field. And I'm thankful that the person who was running point on this before that, they've done all the legwork and gotten into that point. It's unfortunate for them they couldn't see it through, but for us, it allows us to be able to pick up some of these projects after all the heavy lifting has been done and then not see it out because our cost of capital is less and we're picking it up in a stage where we have a shorter runway to get the project finished and then leased up.

(26:30):

I would also add to that as we look at the changes in our underwriting and our models, our cost of capital is higher. The timeframe in which it takes to get to market has changed a little bit, but also we do have another threat. And one of those that I talked about in my piece in my session was on rising insurance costs. The reinsurers over a number of years have, they've had to pay out a lot and now they have to catch up. And so we've seen some dramatic increases in insurance costs, which have changed. Our underwriting models are as well. And then also the fact that banks, lenders are looking at our own underwriting and those from the consultants that we utilize and appraisers just to make sure that we're being realistic, no longer just throwing in a 3% increase in rental rates and a 2% increase in expenses over the course of the next five to seven years, you'll hold this.

(27:23):

Well, that's unrealistic. We've seen that. And every project is different, every market is different. And if you don't account for changes in what you foresee coming in terms of the overall economy, well then they're just going to say, well, these are just plugged numbers, and where is the forecasting and the projections behind this? So I guess all that to say, Doug, it's forced us all to get a little bit smarter and sharper. And as we get more sophisticated within our underwriting and because we have to, because of all the private equity is coming into our industry, that is going to continue to drive a wedge between the rookies, the novices, maybe the dreamers who have heard and seen that this is an easy business and they don't do their homework and they don't learn about it, versus those that have not only been in this industry for a while, but those that are willing to do the heavy lifting, the hard work and educate themselves before they get into the business to make sure that they can stay in the business because they're doing things the right way.

(28:23):

Perfect. Sometimes you got to sharpen the pencil. That's business always. As Abraham Lincoln said, if you give me eight hours to cut down a tree, I'm going to spend seven hours sharpening the saw one hour to cut it down, and that continues to hold true. So overall, Doug, a great show. I don't think anybody left with their head down and feeling as if they wasted a trip out there and that they're going to pull out or pull away or go down a different path in self charge. Because again, this is the industry, one of those few industries that has continued to stay strong and resilient during a recession. And as people are leaving and exiting or slowing down in the industry, that is the time to be running in, which is what we are doing as well. So personally, I don't want to say I'm always bullish on the industry.

(29:12):

So personally, yeah, I'm almost always bullish on the industry. We just have to sometimes hit the pause button or slow down and take a look at the landscape. But we had stopped. There's no reason. I'm not looking to pivot. I can't imagine being in any other industry than the one that I'm in right now. Not only because we've been at it for so long and we've gotten pretty good at what we do, but also what I see in terms of the future of self-storage, both generationally looking at the economy and then also on a global scale. We're beginning to a little bit more outside in terms of our financing and opportunities elsewhere outside of the United States that has me just extremely excited about the future of our industry. So that's my take on the show, Doug. And that was my experience. I couldn't get to all the sessions and I couldn't talk to everybody.

(29:54):

This is a massive show. But again, for what I was looking for, I certainly got out and justification that we are still on the right path and that we are leaning the pack in many areas. And so that provides some comfort as well, made some great connections, some new connections, and grew the brand yet again by having a presence on the trade show floor, having a lot of conversations with folks about investing with us passively, learning how to invest actively, and then also a few more candidates to come into our exclusive self-storage mastermind. So mission accomplished once again, always great to be back in the show. And amongst my peeps, all the folks that love this industry that we love so well. So we'll maybe do add some bits and pieces in future shows. And I think you're right, I think we should do a deep dive into the five threats, the way that I saw it and the way I presented it at the show, but with just a little bit of a different twist for folks out there in Storage Nation.

(30:48):

So thanks, Doug. I appreciate the nudge in reaching out and saying, Hey, I think we should do an ISS recap and hopefully for you Storage Nation, for those that weren't able to go to the show, at least you got a glimpse into what it looks like. And I would just invite you to head out if it's not the ISS show or then head to the SSA show to be able to, for a couple three days, immerse yourself in the industry and begin to build your team and create those relationships that are only going to take you farther. So with that, this is a wrap and I look forward to catching up with you all on the next episode. Take care.

Outro (31:21):

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