Love Conquers Alz
Love Conquers Alz
ROBERT PARDI - Chasing Life: Caregiver, Life Coach, Professor, Guest Speaker, Author of "Chasing Life"
Once in a GREAT while, you read something and the author seems to be speaking directly to your heart. Like an old friend. That's what happened when I read a powerful missive Robert Pardi posted on LinkedIn. After that, I was hooked! I did a deep dive and, OMG, everything he shares about Caregiving and living your best life is incredibly astute and profoundly resonates with me. I am thrilled to have him as our guest and share his beautiful story that led to him being the dynamic leader in the Caregiving community that he is today.
In Episode 48, Don and I spoke with the wildly passionate and perceptive Robert Pardi and found him so engaging, we didn't evening realize the sun had begun to set! Robert, born in NYC, is one of those rare individuals who embraces change and lives what he calls “possibility in action” – taking his desire for transformation and putting it into action daily. He received his MBA from Columbia University and was quickly recruited by the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, one of the largest sovereign wealth funds. Shortly after, his wife Desiree, was diagnosed with Stage 3 breast cancer. Unfortunately, she passed 11 years later. After, throwing caution to the wind, Robert leapt from his comfort zone. He changed careers and moved to the same Italian village his great grandfather immigrated from over 100 years ago. He is now a certified life coach, adjunct professor, international guest speaker, and the Author of Chasing Life - The remarkable true story of love, joy, and achievement against all odds.
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When the world has gotcha, and Alzheimer's sucks. It's an equal opportunity disease that chips away at everything we hold dear. And to date, there's no cure. So until there is we continue to fight with the most powerful tool in our arsenal. Love. This is love conquers all a real and really positive podcast that takes a deep dive into everything. Alzheimer's, The Good, the Bad, and everything in between. And now, here are your hosts Susie singer, Carter, and me, Don priests.
Susie Singer Carter:Hello, everybody. I'm Susie singer Carter.
Don Priess:And I'm Don priests and this is love conquers all. Hello, Susan.
Susie Singer Carter:Hi, Donald. How are you?
Don Priess:I'm pretty good. You know, hang in there.
Susie Singer Carter:Yeah, we had text equivalents again this morning. We are having tech Gremlins and what's going on Riverside?
Don Priess:Get your zoom right now.
Susie Singer Carter:We're supposed to be so professional. And then like are this really cool guests that we have is like, thinks we're like
Don Priess:well, we are well, that's that's nothing to do with Riverside or zoom. Us. So yeah, no, everything's good. I'm boosted.
Susie Singer Carter:You're boosted? Yep. Yeah. That's what happens when you're your age.
Don Priess:Yeah. Yeah, well, I'm over 18. Right. Yeah, I'm all good. I feel good. Everything's good.
Susie Singer Carter:Don't change. I'm jelly. I want to get I'm gonna get mine. And you didn't have that many side effects. Right. Just
Don Priess:I had less Yeah, I had like 36 hours of not feeling great compared to number two where I had like two and a half days of feeling like hot garbage. So yeah, this was just garbage. Not hot garbage. Not
Susie Singer Carter:hot garbage. So go and get some garbage you guys get Yeah, it's so worth it. Yeah. It's a it's like you have like a just now, right? You didn't go out and be in the world?
Don Priess:Well, it's supposedly I guess two weeks after or something. Okay, so gotta be careful. Everyone be careful.
Susie Singer Carter:Yeah. And anything else exciting.
Don Priess:I'm trying to think trying to think well, holidays coming up. You know, Thanksgiving. Yeah. Although by the time they hear this, it will have long passed. We will have been full. That's true. Yeah. So let's pretend that it already happened. Boy was Thanksgiving. Great. It was I am so full. I have so much Turkey in me.
Susie Singer Carter:And my meal was fabulous. I cooked it so well. Yeah. So I just wanted to do a quick shout out once again to our other podcast that we have a whole season I've called I Love Lucifer, and a podcast. It's a scripted comedy horror. And if you haven't checked it out, please do. It's it. We are we keep trending in the top 10 And a lot of the indie podcast lists you know on good pods and on pod chaser and on Stitcher and Adam levy from The Witcher is our narrator and plays the father of our two female leads.
Unknown:Our eyes are literally burning with an outrageous color of red. My fearless daughter moves into Fanta kiss the Portia manages to hold her away Tanya's lips have an inches from horses from the heat from horse's eyes, Don't be daft. Now, in the grips of this rich Tanya is once
Susie Singer Carter:it's basically to be movie stars who fight movie monsters by day and real monsters by night. And it's it's a whole metaphor about Hollywood. You'll love it. It's fun.
Don Priess:Like it's very different from this very different. It's
Susie Singer Carter:very different. But it's yeah,
Don Priess:it's it's a great lesson. And if we do say so ourselves, and then very proud of it.
Susie Singer Carter:And if you like you can check you can rate and review and share with your friends and help us get and subscribe and subscribe and help us get funding for season two because our fans want season two and you know COVID over so we can't get all these actors for free. We have a lot of actors to get to it. Yeah. Busy. And I think I should sleep this next year. Yes. So that's that's that so I I'm so excited about today because I our guests, I'll let you introduce him but but it was, again, social media LinkedIn, I discover this beautiful post from this this man who who tagged me like that's how I found it. And I I thought Wait, I do I know do I know Robert party and I? I thought No but I should because this is so beautifully written. And it resonated so much about caregiving and and this junkie Yeah, take heart like just jumped off my screen and I needed to meet him. And I just immediately said, Would you please be a guest on our show? Because I love I loved everything he had to say. And I continue to love everything that he writes and it's very prolific and transparent with his feelings. Very authentic. I just love it so much. So done.
Don Priess:Yes. Well,
Susie Singer Carter:you do show up to that. Thank you. I
Don Priess:will do that actually, I'd be honored to in 1997 after receiving his MBA from Columbia University, Robert party was quickly recruited by the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, one of the largest sovereign wealth funds, but shortly after his wife Desiree was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer. She fought courageously for 11 years, during which time Robert lovingly took on the role of caregiver. Despite her illness, they created a beautiful life together until her passing in 2009. This life journey taught him about psychology and coaching through practical and hard experience. Since then, he moved to Italy, change careers, became a certified life coach, international speaker, and most recently, a prolific and thought provoking writer, culminating in his first book chasing life, the remarkable true story of love, joy and achievement against all odds. It's truly been an amazing journey. And now let's meet the man who was on that journey, Robert Pardi. Hello, Robert.
Robert Pardi:Hello to the both of you. Hi.
Susie Singer Carter:I'm so happy to have to have you.
Robert Pardi:I am thrilled. And before we go forward, I can't wait to see I love Lucifer. Oh, yeah.
Susie Singer Carter:Oh, yeah. I can't wait. Yeah, thank you so much. It's
Don Priess:so much fun.
Susie Singer Carter:It's like, just just one second on that. Because when you said, See, it's like, that's exactly what we want you to do is like, see everything through your ears? Yeah, no, so we paint a picture with audio, and it's so much fun, it was such a challenge. So I hope you like it, but on to on to you, though, you are such you are, you're quite some human being you are, you are really something else. And I am, I'm just honored to, I'm honored to be able to have this opportunity to talk with you and hear your story of caregiving, and also how you, how you dove into this community, with all you all that you have, and all of your skills and all of your character. And, and made it such a powerful tool for you to give for yourself and for everybody. So you know, that it's just you know, you don't meet people like you all the time. And it's, you know, authentic and very, very impactful and profound. So thank you for sharing this with us
Robert Pardi:No, for sure. Thank you, and you're hitting a word that I learned through caregiving. I mean, if caregiving teaches us anything, it's to strip away all the BS Mm hmm. You know, and to be authentic. I mean, what why would we carry around so much BS and not live? truly live life? Right. So, um, you know, I dove in, like you said, because I realized, everything I experienced wouldn't have any value if I didn't share it. You know, I remember my grandmother and her curio cabinet and all the little figurines getting dusty, you know. And that would be my experiences if I just left them on a curio cabinet, right? So instead of letting them get dusty, and just they're there for show is to come out and say, Hey, this is what happened. This is what it's about. This is what I learned. My journey is different than everybody else. But you know, I think and I recently said this, maybe in a post, caregiving is an extreme boot camp of life. I mean, you're going to be tested in a million different ways, right? And you're going to you're going to walk out change, you're going to work walk out with new skills, new perspective. That's why I'm a life coach. Right? I was the investment banker and yeah, just didn't sit with didn't sit inside me anymore. I never really did I could go into why I actually got into investment banking. But um, yeah, after after the experience with Desiree, I just couldn't get back to it.
Susie Singer Carter:I echo that I hear I feel you I get it. It is like boot camp because you know, there you either make it through or you don't and I don't mean that you know that I think anybody can, but some people just don't want to, and and everything about it frightens them or seems too hard. So they'd rather not. And that's that's the whole purpose of our conversation is to say, try it. Just try it. Because it's better than anything else. And it's it is it is worth it.
Robert Pardi:What you just said is so profound, right? Because the whole idea of it's so much better than anything else people, the idea of caregiving right is venturing towards an endpoint no one really wants to recognize. And so how could it be better than anything else. But it's in that acceptance of the journey towards that endpoint. That that's the whole BS getting rid of the unnecessary. I mean, you know, it's the opportunity to truly connect. Mm hmm. And it's, I just found it, I was lucky too, because I was, I was married to an amazing woman. So and who I am today is a direct reflection of our connection, and understanding real connection. So it is, it is so frightening as well, like you said, because, you know, you're also it's a different language, it's a skill set up, all of a sudden, you show up, you don't you don't have the skills for the job. And the, the job function changes daily sometimes. And you're sitting there and you're thinking, wow, this is so overwhelming. But what I like to say is I say, you know, if you look past the obligation, to the opportunity of caregiving, that's where it just opens up a world of truly amazing things.
Susie Singer Carter:It really does. It really does. It's like, it's it's that adage of, like, you know, we're born we live, we die. So it's what but you know, we all have that same, you know, that's, that's the format. That's the format we signed up for. And so it's what do you do between those, the beginning and the end? And, and, you know, there's been so much pretense built up, you know, these all these different frames and boxes that we're supposed to, that's what happinesses are, that's what good says, or that's what success is. And, you know, who said nobody, and I write who said, and also, like, you know, at the end of the day, you can't you can't take any of those boxes with you. The only box you can take is with you here. That's all you have. Because sometimes we don't even have our memories. My mom has Alzheimer's, so she may not have the memories. But she has this right. Yeah, that's what that's how we communicate.
Don Priess:How long how long did it take till you were able to first of all, accept it? And then lean into it? And then embrace it? What was that journey? What was that path?
Susie Singer Carter:You got 10 years?
Robert Pardi:No, that that is truly a great question. Because first, I should preface Right. Um, I grew up in a rather unusual situation with a an abusive alcoholic dad. So that taught me a lot of life skills to confront certain dynamics or fears or events. So when this happened, I think there wasn't necessarily acceptance, but I just turned on that resilience type thing that I had when I was a kid. And my wife was also very strong, and it was something we were just going to take care of, you know, it's like, Alright, we're gonna get that axe. We're gonna chop the crap out of it. And we're just when it Rickard. Surprisingly, Desiree was rather at peace with the recurrence. And I think, for her, my wife was she was very rooted in her beliefs. I mean, she knew the way she wanted to live from the moment I met her at 17. I mean, she was just, he knew who she was. So at that moment, I think she just said, Okay, now I can put this behind me. I don't have to worry about if it's going to come back, where I was, like, all of a sudden, I couldn't fix. And I had to realize, wait a minute. What is my role if I don't fix, right? Yeah, I was. I was the warrior with her. And we had a very strange dynamic because she didn't want to know anything about her disease. So I was the one that stayed in the middle. She didn't know the size of a tumor. She didn't know the number of lymph nodes. Many times she didn't know the chemotherapy she was on as it progressed and recurred in her liver. She believed, of course, she wasn't stupid. By the end of her life. She had to know but I kept just saying, No, it's staying in your liver. We're keeping it contained. But one of the reasons was because she was an MD PhD student when she was diagnosed, but so when it recurred, I literally had to do the sink or swim. Alright, if I'm sitting here fearful, and crushed by the idea that this has come back, I'm of no use to her whatsoever. And she's asking me to be her rock. Right? So what do I do here? And what I realized, and it was, it was rather immediate, maybe after a little small period of drinking a little too much and having to cope with it in a way that like, you know, I was like, really, you know, I, we actually are going to go down that road. But once I broke through that, what I realized was, wait a minute, my role as a caregiver, is actually to give my wife space, to be a human, to be a woman, I'm not there to fix, I'm there to witness, I'm there to help her achieve what she wants to achieve, but she's not an object. And that's one of the reasons why I love your podcast as well. Because for me all time is very interesting, because people then start to treat the person as an object, or they're not right anymore. And it's maybe, maybe we just have to come down and learn to communicate with them exactly sort of expecting them to rise up to us. And in between what Desiree and I really shared was communication, about everything about not about death, let's say she, we didn't use the word in the house, even though she wanted to being a palliative care doctor. But, you know, it was, what quality of life meant. It was how I want to manage the disease, it's how I want to live around the disease. Those were conversations that were so important. And then conversations around intimacy, which, you know, it it is pretty tough, a woman already loses a part of her body, which is, you know, the feminine part to a certain extent in our society. And then she immediately went into menopause because she did a stem cell transplant, and it was a very rapid type of menopause, where she couldn't even enjoy her body as a woman. Hmm. So, you know, what do you do? Do you avoid that? Or do you jump into that conversation? If we avoided it, that would have been space between us? Yeah. And he would have felt alone. And I think part of being a caregiver, yes, we have to do all those things, right, you know, I flush ports and I cleaned up vomit, and everything else that comes with, you know, that type of journey. But so much of it was to sit there and listen and acknowledge that she was a human being, and not make it all about the disease,
Susie Singer Carter:you made space for her, you gave you made space for her. And, and, and what's you know, unique about being a caregiver for someone you love, like your wife, and like, me as a daughter, you know, and I'll be it as a husband, you're, you have the added level of intimacy and those kinds of relationship components that, you know, I don't have with my mother. So I haven't experienced what that would be like, however, you know, it is about it is about their journey. And it's hard because it's, it's, it puts it's a lot of it's a lot of juggling your own emotion. And right and, and allowing them to go through this natural. And even though it's, it's, it's a tragic, and it happened too soon, it's part of life. And at one point or another, we're all going to lose each other, you know. So it's, it's about allowing them to go through this process. And I said, and I'm not I want to go back again, what you said about her. When she wouldn't recurred. She wasn't as devastated as you thought she would be. There was a sense of of, almost like, peace, peace. Yeah. Like, and I say that, you know, I don't know if you had a chance to watch my film, my mom and the girl but when I, that year was the year I walked my mom across the bridge from her, defending herself against this disease and being you know, so. So, you know, stubborn, you know, and offended by it. She embraced it because she had no other choice. And she was suddenly at peace. And it's the it made it filled my heart because I noticed that she wasn't written with anxiety anymore because she in her in her way. She said, got it. This is it. I'm down with it. I'm there.
Robert Pardi:That's that's the whole premise behind surrender, right? That that is so amazing. When we sit there and we say okay, this is what it is. And I think it was for my wife. I mean, you know, the hope was, it would be chronic. And honestly, to tell you the truth for a woman that was diagnosed in 1998, living 11 years, basically with metastatic breast cancer for nine and a half of them, without the drugs we have today was amazing. So, you know, we looked at it as maybe this, this could continue. But it is that whole idea of fighting against something you can't control. Holy crap, do you waste a lot of energy? And and then you feel like a victim to the whole thing? Yes. When you start looking at what you can control, and the first thing we can control is acceptance. Even as the caregiver, you know, did, did I want to go down that road? Did I want to know my wife was going to pass away? Most likely? I mean, maybe there was going to be a cure. But no, but what you said is, and this was such a hard lesson. And Dan, it sort of ties back to what you were saying earlier as well. I had to realize it was not about me, it was of course, about me, because we were the unit. But it was it was her journey. And if I was playing the, you know, I'm tired. I'm angry. I've had enough of this. This isn't fair. We're just wasting energy. On the Oculus.
Don Priess:Both sides. Yeah, yeah. And it's and you go back to because it's different, because men are naturally they want to solve all problems,
Susie Singer Carter:then some women to some women are some women too, but in
Don Priess:general, yes. But it's like, if you're not fixing it, you're not doing it. Right. Therefore, which causes you know, it's bad for both sides? Because sometimes, is it better to just ask the person, what do you want? What how can we make this D or D ID? Or is that a question? Is that a good question? Or is that a bad question?
Robert Pardi:I love that you brought that up first. Can I say, if anyone's suffered the superband complex, it was B, I swear, I had dreams of being Superman and flying and sometimes not being able to get off the ground. I mean, it was just, you know, I wanted to fix it all. I wanted to find the cure, I learned more about all kinds of herbal supplements and everything else that you can possibly imagine, right, those two o'clock in the mornings when you can't sleep. But the question is asked, actually, also, I think the question that needs to be asked in medicine, and that's part of palliative care. My wife and I were very lucky with her doctors that asked, How can I help you? And so the same type of thing. My my wife? If I didn't ask those questions, then I would have fought against a lot of decisions. And I we wouldn't have been a team in it, we would have been to parties looking at it from different angles, right? And it's so important it that's why, you know, so caregiving journeys are so different. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to be caring for someone that else has Alzheimer's and sometimes can't answer those questions. And he's
Susie Singer Carter:just going to say that to you, I was going to say, to the audience, too, you know, there's, there's the, the one of the biggest, you know, problems with that, with that being a caregiver of someone with dementia or Alzheimer's, is that if we don't have discussions ahead of time, we'll never know what they really want. Because we don't have we've lost that moment, we lost that window. And so we have to play you know, we have to do our second guessing the best that we can. And you know, empathy, empathy, empathy, try to put yourself in that position, you know, try to remember who that person is was, and what would they want? What would they like, what what how, how, what does the best for them, you know, and and so, that's, that is that is the that is one of the problems with someone with with memory issues. So
Robert Pardi:for sure, but having the conversation at the beginning is also so so important. And a lot of people avoid these conversations because they are difficult because you are then saying this is what we're dealing with. You know, you're actually talking about the pink elephant in the room, which makes people uncomfortable, right. So we, we did we were we spoke all the time. And like I said, we didn't speak about death we didn't speak about except that I know that that she wanted to be cremated. We didn't speak about any real logistics or anything like that. But we talked about quality of life, we talked about what she needed. We had many an argument that she didn't want to be married to a parent, if I was like, Don't eat the doughnut, it's got sugar, sugar feeds cancer, you know? Yeah. And so you have to find your footing as well. And it's hard because this is when we can talk about the ego. And it's very hard to understand defining the ego except for the fact that the ego says that we're the center of what's happening. And in a caregiving role, you can't be the center.
Susie Singer Carter:Right? That's right. Oh, that's right. Yeah, it's
Don Priess:hard to, it's hard to be selfless sometime. For sure.
Susie Singer Carter:But that's okay. But that's okay. It's okay. If we, that's, we are human as well. Yeah. So we make mistakes, and we can Oh, you know, I feel I think if you show up, you're a hero just showing up, you're a hero, because so many people don't show up.
Robert Pardi:So many people don't show up, show up. So the other thing as well is this whole idea of, and I love that you said it, we're human, you know, we have this idea of our best. And, you know, I know, at least for me, that definition was running at 110% Whether it was my career, you know, when I was on in investment banking, or whatever it was, it was 110% Hmm. Our best is fluid. It's our intention, which should always be 110%. But if we wake up, and it's been 48 hours, and we finally got a little sleep, and we're just groggy, you know, what if we can only give 20% then make it the best 20% It can be but accept the fact that today, I'm at 20.
Susie Singer Carter:That's right. That's right.
Robert Pardi:We put a lot of pressure on ourselves
Don Priess:And it helps avoid one thing that's that caregivers always go through, which is guilt, which is guilt. But doing anything for yourself is well, if I'm doing something myself, I'm not being a good caregiver, which is quite the opposite. You have to take care of yourself. Did you find there were times it's like, you know what, I just want to go out and get a drink with my friend. And I but if I do that, I'm not being a good caregiver. How did you deal with stuff like that,
Robert Pardi:um, the guilt, the guilt was definitely there. Not necessarily, again, it was with the recurrence, because all of a sudden, there was the time aspect of it, there was just there was a lot involved, a lot of emotions came up. But what you said is, is so is so valuable, think about showing up for a job, and you haven't slept for 48 hours and you have a critical job, maybe you're a surgeon, it's more likely you're going to make a mistake, right? So you need you need the rest to perform. You need the self care to perform, we sort of forget that equation when we are a caregiver dealing with a loved one for some strange reason. But we can actually do harm if we're not caring for ourselves. And, again, I probably was very blessed that my wife was in the medical profession and there's the Hippocratic Oath, do no harm. And I realized that is really for everybody. You know, if you run yourself into and sometimes you have to forget about it, you know, there's just no way you can you can go out and you know, get a drink or a massage or I was someone that had a run. So if I didn't go out running yet, then you know, it was just it was my way to let everything out and Italian it's it sounds so much better. It's called swag RC and um, you know, it's just one of those things like it just blow it all out of you and then you come back. But it was it was hard to manage all of that. And also, I wanted to hang out with my friends but I didn't want that. You know, the help head bob is everything okay? Yeah. You know what? No, hey, let's talk about the game or something. I want to be asked how you know, Yeah, appreciate it, appreciate it. But a lot of that self care is to say I need to step out of that whole role. Exactly. I want to talk I want to talk normal language I'm sure Susie you speak a different language you speak medical speak now, you know, a lot of different things right? i Yeah, I was able to throw out those words and, and I was like, wow, you know what I like to just talk about, you know, a baseball game or
Susie Singer Carter:something. Yeah. I want to talk about Steve Madden, his new shoe that's I get it because it's like, no, you know, and I think of it all the time because my mom is you know that Alzheimer's is either a very swift disease or it can be the longest goodbye. And my mom has taken the longest goodbye. And if I get it, you know, esoteric about it. I think the universe because I was one of my biggest is one of my biggest fears is losing her. So she gave me a long exit to get used to it. You know, because we used to my mom is extremely witty even now, like I can get her, you know, I can see the wheels turning, she can't get find the words, but, boy, there was something funny coming out, you know? And so you know, she'd always say definitely don't go I'm not going anywhere. What do you eat die? I'm not going, like I got stuff to do. Right so you know, but when people ask me now How's your mom? I have no idea how to answer that. That's a freakin huge question. And I can't I can't address it. I always say she's the same. She's just the same. She's my mom. I can't say you know what? Yeah, it's very difficult. And I like you. When I first when she first got diagnosed, I was like, and it was my ego, saying, Mom, I've got this we're gonna kick its ass. I know, other people haven't done it yet. But I'm going to do that. We're going to figure out how to beat this little this little jerk. And, you know, my mom was I even in the beginning, my mom was like, stop. He said she knew. She knew. Yeah, you know, and she's very practical about that. And I, I love her because I you know, she, she was the the voice, she is the voice of reason. I just think I can see it in her eyes. She's the voice of reason. You know, she's very, she's a Joie De V. But it's like, you know, it is what it is,
Robert Pardi:you know, how you just said about, you know, in the eyes? I could imagine as well, you've learned to communicate in a deeper way. There might not be the word sometimes. But you're communicating, and you're feeling actually her expressions. You're not listening anymore. And that must in and of itself. Touch very deeply.
Susie Singer Carter:Yeah. Do you have children?
Robert Pardi:No, unfortunately, because Desiree when she was diagnosed, she decided to go for a stem cell transplant. And the first day of this, and the way it worked is it was basically 24 hours of chemotherapy for one week. Oh, they're really just bringing your body to the brink of death. And then they put your, your stem cells back in right after they had radiate them or something. But she went into menopause. Immediate.
Susie Singer Carter:Oh, that's right, you mentioned that I was the reason why I brought that up is because, you know, I have two daughters and raising my daughters from from, you know, these nuggets of just, you know, cells of, you know, these little pictures from a from a ultrasound to these women. And, you know, I see, I caught Benjamin Button because I see how my mom is doing, she's stepping backwards the way that they've stepped forwards. And when they will step backwards the same way and the skills that she had, she'll lose. But at some point, they're the same. So when you communicate with a new, a new human, it's all intention. Yes. They don't know words. It's all intention. It's all with, you know, it's unspoken communication. And it's really powerful. Your your babies know, if you're upset, your babies know, if you're happy if they feel safe, if they feel loved, or if they feel fear. Yeah. And that's how is the same for an adult who's losing those skills that they once had. So they're relying on other skills, which is intuition, intention, and, and feeling. Right. And so you do you have to readjust and so you can't communicate like I like we communicate together, I have to communicate I you know, my my mom's language,
Robert Pardi:Right. And that that's so powerful, because instead of trying to drag her back to something that is actually impossible to get back to this moment, yeah, you meet her where she is. And and I think that's, that's a great metaphor for any sort of caregiving journey that caregivers needs to meet the person where they are. Yeah, again, Donna, it gets to that whole thing of you saying sometimes, it is very hard to be selfless, and it is very hard for all of those different things. It goes back to at the beginning, I said, you know, obligation and opportunity, the opportunity is to show up and to learn to let that stuff go and to learn about giving because really what we're all doing like you said at the beginning it's space, we are giving space for that person were caring for and again, I you know, maybe because Desiree and I we met when we were so young, she was 17 and I was 19. So we also grew up together. Maybe that had some insight into the way things work between us. Also Desiree. She lived a very interesting philosophy of not believing in judgment at all, even to herself. So she only ever wanted to know she was doing her best, which is where maybe I learned that whole idea of best. So she never knew her GPA. She never knew her grades on exam, she never knew her grade on the MCAT. So the idea that she didn't want to know anything about her disease, and just wanted to know, she was doing her best, and she was being aggressive, made perfect sense.
Susie Singer Carter:I love that what an extraordinary woman, what an extraordinary woman, she was, ah,
Don Priess:that allows her to live at her fullest. Because if you're sitting there and worrying about something, you can't control your that's that's your life, then you do not You're not living life, you're just living in what may be or will be. And that's not a good place to be.
Susie Singer Carter:Or what isn't or what it was.
Robert Pardi:Yeah, all of that. Right. Yeah. You know, Susie, you know, any illness journey is full of losses, and each of those losses has a grieving aspect to it. And if you're just focusing on the things that have fallen away that whole experience that existence is, is a waste, really, because there's so much that's that's gained and requires us to look for that as well.
Susie Singer Carter:Exactly,, exactly. You know, it's like, it's like when my, my first daughter's father, who is still we're divorced, but we're still family, you know, we're very close, we also met me as teenagers So, and, you know, we have different ways of looking at life. And and, Rick, my ex has always mourned every passage of time with my daughter, you know, our daughter, he's just, you know, he, he, he has, he's very sentimental. And he's reminisces and, you know, pines for certain. And I have always, I don't know why but it's just been, it's one of the things that I'm most proud of is that I've just loved every stage of them. And I don't miss Yes, I love them as babies, they were my girls were adorable. You know, I want to chew them up and eat them up. And I love to you know, having babies is the most amazing thing in the world. But I love every stage of them. I love them as women, I love them as horrible teenagers, I loved it all. I loved it all. And I will love it all. And I think that that's we have to love every stage of of our, the people that we love and accept it. Right? And and otherwise, we're missing out
Don Priess:Every moment, every moment. That's, it's I living in the present.
Robert Pardi:I love that you said that. I love it. Because that's, that's really what it what it all came down to. And I mean, she's even the way you talk about your mom, you can see his joy written all over your face, you know. And so that shows that you're living in moments of joy, regardless of what's going on. And that's really what I learned more than anything else is that regardless of adversity, and you know, Viktor Frankl wrote about this, the, you know, Socrates wrote about these things. So it's not like it's anything new, was that regardless of the things around us there, there is always joy. And so like you said, you know, you're there. And like Don said, in that present moment, the present moment is where there's joy, I always say, you know, 99.9% of the population will be taken by a rainbow. Like for that one brief second, they're 100%. Present, they look at it, they smile. That's joy. We just have to lean into it. Yeah, you can't We can't pursue joy, like, like a goal. You know, it's, it's just always there. So can you find it in whatever is going on? And that I think is, for me. One of the things I realized in the caregiving journey was it gave me the ability to say, really, who the eff do I want to be? Like, do I want to stay fearful this whole trip? Because, you know, who knows? Maybe my I was supposed to be on the top of the World Trade Center during September 11. I had a meeting on the top floor in windows on the world. I said, I happen to cancel it at 730 that morning.
Susie Singer Carter:Oh my god.
Robert Pardi:So you know, and and so I was like, you know, yeah, we sort of we know, her train. Right. It's well defined. Maybe my spy train is gonna stop before hers gets to her destiny.
Susie Singer Carter:We don't Yeah, we don't. Yeah,
Robert Pardi:we don't We don't know. And it was it's just it's so powerful the idea of the present moment and it's gotten, I think so phooey. And everyone likes to use the term the present moment. And you know what, it just means being conscious. Yeah. You know, be conscious and in tune.
Susie Singer Carter:Well, this is all we have, you know, and it's, and I say that to that my mom, really, if you're anybody that has especially, you know, issues with memory, they're only living in the moment, they can only live in the moment because they can't remember 10 seconds ago. So if you if, you know, in some ways, it's the greatest gift you can ever get, because it teaches you how to live in the moment and how not to what, you know, I remember my brother said to me, toys, the beginning of her disease. And I was like, you know, you don't visit mom enough, I would say, and I get frustrated, and he'd say, she doesn't remember anyway, doesn't matter. And I know that that perspective is shared by a lot of people that it doesn't matter, because she won't remember. Well, it does matter. She does, she might not remember,
Don Priess:They remember in a different way. Yes. You know, we always say that, you know, it's yeah, they don't remember here, but they remember here. Yeah, and it and it's cumulative. And like Susie always says, when you go when you go to the, you know, the you can see who hasn't been visited. And they all have the same, you know, cognitive memory issue, but you can tell who has not been visited and who has been? Because it does get in a different way.
Susie Singer Carter:You just go Yeah, yeah, it's, it's sad. And that's why, you know, we talk about, like, you mentioned in your post yesterday, about, you know, it's not about reframing. And I wanted to bring that up, you know, in some ways it for me, it is about reframing how we look at it, because because, in the sense that if, if I, if I can take the same situation, yes, it's got bad, there's bad, there's definitely bad I don't want to see my mom is like this. i She's such, she, she has such gifts to her. But guess what, she still has those gifts. Because when I go to visit her or, you know, zooming for the last 18 months with her, you know, and people go, Oh, they'll pop in the camera go Oh, is that your mom, we love her and love her. And she doesn't even talk to any you don't. But she'll give up. I know that she's communicating to them, because she'll go, you know, and she'll say, she wants to kiss them because she gets she gets it across. She makes it work. And, you know, so it is for me it was about reframing, in terms of saying, yes, bad is there, but bad is everywhere. Right. And we can't be Pollyannas about it. This Yes, there is bad. And we're going to, we'll take that on. That's what we do as human beings. But let's not forget about the good just because there's bad
Robert Pardi:100%. And the idea, because reframing is a lot of people believe that reframing is talking yourself into something that maybe isn't logical or a lot, a lot of people just they think of it in the wrong way. So what you what you're saying is true, is that even though there's bad there is good, right? So the idea of benefit finding is then saying so, you know, what are then you define them? And you define what are those things. And the reason I brought that up in that post is because I hear a lot of people talking about how it's true. Caregiving is difficult and is exhausting. It's not all that. It's that. And there's a lot, there's a lot else, you know,
Susie Singer Carter:your life like, like, like all of
Robert Pardi:life, but and I think recently, I've just heard a lot more people talking about the frustrating aspect of caregiving. And if you sit in that camp, then wow, it's an obligation and it's heavy, and it's draining. But if you look at it more as all the things that you're getting from it, and how you're stretching yourself and how you're opening yourself up, you use the word at the very beginning vulnerability. That's our like, superpower. Really, like if you're wearing armor all the time. You're really not engaging in life and you're you don't know who you are. You define your strength because of the armor, because you could take it off and learn how strong you are. Right? And that that's when you're giving of yourself.
Susie Singer Carter:Yes, yeah, and you can and it's okay, you might not be strong. You might might you know, like I when I in the beginning in the first couple years. years of my mom, I would go to visit her when when I had to put her in, in assisted living. And I always come in, like, you know, Susie sunshine, and then I go and hug her and then I'm over her shoulder, I boo. And then I'd be back again because and that, you know, and I was like, I had to give myself a break. I didn't want to cry in front of her because I didn't want her to feel bad. Or misinterpret, so I just, but now, you know, now I'm Oh, now I know. I'm very strong. But you know, doesn't it's okay not to be strong. It's just right.
Robert Pardi:Well, that's, that's so cool, right? Because strength does not mean you're numb to it. Strength actually means you feel it. Yeah. And you will allow yourself to Yes,
Susie Singer Carter:yes, yes. Yes!
Robert Pardi:You're crying - the whole bit. And then you're going to be like, alright, that's overweight. Now,
Susie Singer Carter:let's sing a song.
Robert Pardi:That's what that's what I mean by strength. We, the the idea of numbing yourself from the whole thing. Is is not strength. Pouring weight, actually. Yeah, avoiding. It's going into the fire coming back out. And being ready to do it again. Yes, but knowing that you have to feel all those emotions. Yes. So my wife never never saw me cry. In fact, we were, we were on The Oprah Winfrey Show. This is this is before it was the internet, really. So it's not available on the internet. But when they were filming us, they, you know, asked me to sort of, you know, look like a collapse in the hospital or cry. And I'm like, but I didn't do that. Right. You know, my wife didn't see that. And I didn't believe that that was valuable now, when, after her cancer occurred, she had an amazing oncologist and he called me into his office to talk about the results. He'd never done that. Now my wife is at work. I left my apartment building. It was March, New York City apartments are really hot. So I was wearing shorts and flip flops and a T shirt. I left dressed like that bitter cold walk to his office. I cried. Every step I walked into his office, I saw the the nursing staff with tears in their eyes. As soon as I walked in, it was I knew I was going to have that conversation I didn't want to have right um, but in front of her. I was like, that doesn't serve her. That's not what she needs to see. So like you said, you know, you hugged your mom? She didn't see it. Whoo hoo hoo. Yeah. So yes, strength strength is feeling at all. That's for me strength is feeling at all.
Susie Singer Carter:I agree. I agree. It's interesting. Your story. You know, Valerie Harper was played believe in my in our movie about my mom. And she she played she was had you know, she I don't know if you know, Valerie, who she is. She's She was given three months to live like eight years before that. And, and she, you know, listen, she wasn't happy about that at all right? Who would be but she decided to, you know, she said, always said, I'm not going to my funeral before I'm ready. Not going to go by them. I don't want to be at my funeral until I'm dead. So she said I'm alive. Like, because and like I would and I'd say, oh my god, she is my mother. Because my would sit all the time when my mom could speak still. And I'd say mommy, how are you? Today? She go, I'm alive. Fantastic. You know, and that's how Val was and because of that attitude, I mean, Val lives lived another 10 years. She passed away to, like, two years ago now. After our film, and and, and she was she was so accepting of it. It was more about her husband, she was worried about you know, Tony, who was like, just like you her champion her, you know, he was like, come on, you're walking Italian by the way to write Italian who wanted to be Jews. So it was like they were basically like, I had to get them a female Rabbi for the for the services because they just they're like, you know, and my stepfather by the way who since passed. He's he's an Italian Jew. So we're all the same regardless, regardless, but you know, but it reminds me so much of that philosophy because you know, when you have somebody like your wife and and Valerie who are such gifts, in the way that they are embracing their life, and it's it's it's a gift and it's a beautiful amazing, like I I could just cry thinking of Valerie not because I'm sad about her but because I feel so blessed that I got to spend such a significant amount of time with this amazing freaking wonderful human being that that filled I changed my life, not because she was in my movie, but because she entered my life. And I love her so much like, and that that's because of the way she approached. I saw it in the way she approached her, her her diagnosis. It's extraordinary.
Don Priess:And she got to live every moment of her life, every moment of her life, you know, because some people stop living during their life. It's like, I have now stopped living.
Robert Pardi:And I'm loving Dan, by the way, because he sort of reads my mind. And this is a perfect segue. Good. Because that that is that is so true. Like you said, you're asking your mom and she's, well, I'm alive. You can, because when when Desiree first was was diagnosed, I started just reading about stoicism. But like one of the stows stoic practices is, you know, when you wake up in the morning, it's like a gift. You wake up, you know, with curiosity and wonder, you're like, wow, I get another day, you know? So you go to bed at night, you're like, well, maybe this is it. So. But how often does the majority, let's say, of people, and this is comes from the work that I've been I do with people, they don't wake up to live their life until they get that piece of paper from a doctor. And like you said, you know, Valerie lived every moment of her life, we should all be doing that. And in a way, that's one of those things when you are a caregiver. And there there is this shift that takes place when someone's diagnosed, and you see them all of a sudden saver. And I love the word saver. Right? They savor their life. And you're saying now, even when your mom like she want to do give the kisses, right, she's she's in that moment. Right. So I think I think it is so important to, to understand the idea of living life while we have it. And
Don Priess:it's Yeah, I mean, it's almost like literally, like, if you say, one, that one sentence in two different ways. You say, Oh my God, you wake up on my god, I'm 88 years old, or, oh my god, I'm 88 years old. When you consider the alternative?
Susie Singer Carter:Getting old is not for the faint of heart. But the alternative sucks.
Robert Pardi:You know, what, you're what you're saying right now is? Well, that whole idea of you know, oh my god, I'm 88 years old, you know, that's allowing yourself to be wondrous and curious and just have fun, like, play, right. But when when I talked to people about Desiree, and they're like, oh, you know, it's so Sarah. She lived a short life. You know, she was just about to turn 41 She died when she was 40. I say, You know what? It's not about measuring life based on the number of years. But the amount of joy. Yeah, right. And she lived in accelerated but full, joyful life.
Susie Singer Carter:Yeah, it's quality, not quantity. Exactly. Yeah, my father died in a plane crash at 46. And he was extremely impactful in the in the music industry in terms of his his innovation of sound. He was an engineer and all kinds of things that I won't go into. But he, I always say my dad lived five lifetimes in 46 years. Like, I, I think about being his age now and going, Oh, my God, how did he achieve that much in that much. He's, you know, a span of time. And what an amazing life he's had, and he's left a legacy, and he's in the history books. And he's, and he's my, my hero, and wow, you know, and, and he lived a life. He lived a huge life. And that's what you all you can hope for. Right? That's all we can hope for. And this comes from the little girl that's been afraid to die her whole life since she's three years old. Like I have a running out of my bed going down. Where do you go when you die? And he'd go, you're three years old, go back to bed. 100 years, you know, I was always worried about what's gonna happen instead of living now.
Robert Pardi:Right? Right. And, you know, the whole idea of because I know a lot of people that even my mom, I can tell you, my mom, she's, she's not the healthiest at 80 years old and her grandmother which was my great grandmother, grandma, Bridget, you know, live to 102 or something in mind. I was like, I'm gonna be grandma Bridget. And so I'm like, you know why? And she's like, well, you know, I don't want to give it all up. And I think sometimes that's heavy to carry, because we all got to give it up. Yeah. You know? And if you're, if you're holding on so tightly, I love to do that, you know, because I want your hands if you just think about it, how are you going to grab another opportunity?
Susie Singer Carter:If it's beautiful. That's beautiful. So I love that, Robert, that's so beautiful. If you can't see it, you're listening. You've got to go look at our YouTube because it's really good. Yeah, that's really nice.
Don Priess:I want to go back to one thing when we were talking about taking care of yourself as a caregiver, and and that caregivers need caregiving from others. Yes. And it's hard to ask for that, especially, you know, from your family and friends. And I think it's because there's a fear there. That was just like you were talking about before. The one thing you didn't want to hear when you went out for a drink was Oh, my God, you didn't want the sympathy, the pity, you didn't want to talk about it. And I think we can help other people help us by telling them that say, You know what, let's go grab a drink, I don't want to talk about it. Let's go just have a good time. And that takes that pressure off of them take and that helps them character view. I know this is off the subject of what we were just talking about. But when we were in it, I wanted to bring this up, because I think it's really important for caregivers to get caregiving. Right.
Robert Pardi:It's so that's so important. And the thing, what you just said is somewhere along the line, we've all become afraid to communicate what we need. I don't know why that why that has happened. But it is that it is saying, Hey, first of all, for me, would you enter the caregiving space, it only be almost comes like becomes a natural selection process. Because there are some people that just don't know how to deal with you anymore. And there are some people that that want to come in and help. And if you just come out and say, This is what I'm going through, this is who I am, this is what I need. Are you with me? Let the pieces fall where they may. But the thing is, we need to communicate that. But we need to communicate that as people. Yeah, stop trying to fit in or make others happy. Or all the other things that go on because actually what we're doing is we're betraying ourselves,
Susie Singer Carter:yeah, yeah, I had the disease to please for the majority of my life. And so trying to be a caregiver, and then please other people is just a recipe for failure. And for for, you know, your own detriment, because you can't do it all. And you know, you can really see who your true friends are. And I'm not saying to use that as weaponize that, but you can see who they are in these kinds of times. So, you know, I had, I had one friend that was such support, we were very close, I thought, and I, I asked, you know, there was years have gone by, and she's never once asked to visit my mom or meet my mom. And I thought that's really strange that she wouldn't want to. Maybe it's coming from her fears. She doesn't want but but you know, she's a big girl, she's a woman, you know, it's like, she is a mother and, you know, come on, and I even so I thought, well, let me give her the benefit of the doubt. I invited her several times, do you want to come with me on a Sunday? Just come and I'd love you to meet my mom before, while whatever still there is there, you know, and it never happened. And I got to I had to finally have a coming to Jesus conversation with myself going, is this a friend? Or am I am I you know, putting characteristics into her that I want to see. And because I don't want to lose this friendship. And I think you know, that's, there's another gift. And that is that you learn? Okay, who are your who are real? Who are the real people who are the authentic people in your life? We don't have time for everything,
Don Priess:who's on your team....
Susie Singer Carter:Who's on your team is on your team? I call it team team Norma, and team Susie and team Don and team Robert, you know, and and it's fair. It's fair to make that those decisions. It's right.
Robert Pardi:And it's you know, it's it's team Norma Suzy Don Robert. It's team everybody. It shouldn't just be doing caregiving. Right, right. It's it's finding those people that really are aligned with you and there's so much involved in that because like with your friend, I can't tell you how many people were afraid to actually see the reality because they're fearful it may happen to them. Yes. And so that's, that's when you're really in your ego, right, and you're not seeing how you can help. But that whole idea of, of self care. And also self self care is, like Don, you said, is needing a community, you do need a community, and you need a community that, you know, your role in your life changes. And that has an impact on the expectations you had for your life, which has an impact on your identity. And so you need some people around you to connect with that part of your identity that maybe you're not able to really connect with in the caregiving role anymore. I worked with a great guy in Dubai. And I have to say, he was just phenomenal. Giving me space to take care of my wife, and he, he loved her. But the thing was, he knew we had that conversation. So we'd get together and he would all he would say is, bro, you're okay. And I would say Yeah. And he's like, let's go do this. Let's go do that. It was just that one moment. He wanted me to know he cared. Yeah. And that he was acknowledging the situation I was in, but not making that situation. My identity.
Susie Singer Carter:Got it. That's classy. I love that.
Don Priess:Because because if you do that, then you never you never you do need a break from it. Yeah. Your mental break from it. Your footprint is not what you and that's not that doesn't. It doesn't define you. It's part of who you are.
Susie Singer Carter:Yeah, it's not all of you. It's not all of you. Yeah, here I call it. Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. Oh, no, see, you're right about the fear, though. People are afraid, you know, people don't want to see it. Like, my, I just reconnected with my, my niece, my nephew and his wife. And, and, you know, it's because Carrie, you know, I'm sure you've heard this, or you've experienced this, but when you know, when things hit the fan, you know, people either step up or they turn, you know, stage left. And, and my brother did stage left. And I've made excuses for him for a very long time. Because Oh, he's, he's scared. Oh, he's, he's had a rough time. Oh, this or that. But at some point, you got to go. Okay. And I when I say this man up, I mean, man up woman up per person up person. Oh, come on, let's strap them on. And let's go we are all in this together. And you know, and I, and, you know, it's this is a long journey. And my, my nephew's wife who's so empathetic and such a lovely soul. She said, I talked to mark my brother every once in a while and I say, you got to go visit your mom. And he goes, Yeah, I know. I know. I just did it. I just don't I don't know what I can't. I'm afraid. He's afraid. He's afraid to see her. And that makes that's so sad to me. That we're afraid that anybody is afraid to see someone's life where it is now.
Robert Pardi:Yes. Why? Because it's, it's on that. It's, it's on that train. Right? So it's seeing someone that's concluding their life journey. We don't know how long that's going to be. And that scares so many people. We're not meant to survive life. So the idea of you know, being afraid to witness that approach towards end of life or finishing someone's life journey robs you have the time that you have with that person. And if like you said, you know, you can't you can't communicate with them. Emotions still. They they communicate that they're tangible. I I truly think that when this is all over, and I have no idea but I think we are just a collection of all the emotions we felt and I love a kaleidoscope. I actually have one I carry with me everywhere. And I think we're just that like, that Kaleidoscope all those colors are all the different emotions and experiences we've had. And so if you're letting fear stop you from connecting with your mom, who's going through something difficult. You've robbed yourself of that connection of her love of your love for her. And you've colored it with just one color fear. Yeah,
Susie Singer Carter:yeah. I love that Kaleidoscope metaphor. I am like a
Robert Pardi:Go buy one - they're so cool.
Susie Singer Carter:Don, what am I about color? Like what do you say all color all the time? Because you say I'm like a cat like what....
Don Priess:no, I mean, literally, I've been she is a cat and color is yarn. And okay, it could be you know, I'm doing this and what yet what yellow green
Susie Singer Carter:Coor is... Just I, I love it so much. It makes me happy, like, you know, pops of color everywhere. And I love color and I love you know, it's just, it gets my attention and I nice and it makes me happy. And I think that that's because I like I like life. I like all of life. And I like All righty. Yeah, I like all the colors and I like it to be happy and bright and cheerful and and bold. Why not be bold?
Robert Pardi:Absolutely. That just that question, right? Someone that's bold is going to put fear to the side and step in and go see Mom.
Susie Singer Carter:Right. And it's so funny because we're raised by the same human being. And my mother, one of the things she taught me was to be bold. My mom would we'd be out of out and about and my mom would stop a gorgeous woman that was walking by my mom's five foot tall and go, excuse me, but you are unbelievably gorgeous. And Jesus Christ. And the woman would just go what? Thank you. Thank you. No, don't thank me. Thank God, just and my mom was so bold that way. I remember when I was a teenager it'd be really embarrassing now I just want to be like her because she made so many people so happy because she connected she connected she broke down all those those filters and you know, screens that we put up and, and jealousy and everything. My mom didn't have a jealous bone in her body. Just doesn't, you know, beautiful. Yeah, just like wow, you're gorgeous. Look at those legs for days. Ah,
Robert Pardi:I want to go visit Norma, right. I want to come say hello to Nora Oh, please
Susie Singer Carter:do she'll love you. She eats you up she loves. I always say she has more game with men than I do ever. Now now in the state that she's in now. She she loves she would be right Don, she would say
Don Priess:that. You'll you'll have to see our film. You'll get a sense of her. I mean, Valerie plays her you know so beautifully. And then there are outtakes at the end with her in you know? Yeah. And you'll get a sense of who she is. And I think she's right. right up your alley. She Yeah, you'd love it. To tell you would connect with her in two seconds.
Susie Singer Carter:Yeah, there's a scene with the valet when she lived with me. I lived in a live loft workspace in Universal City. And so there was valet it was like you're living in a in a in a studio. And everyday she'd walk up to the valet because they knew her by now and go. You know, you're very good looking. I'm very wealthy, just Just thought I'd say that. And they just go and they loved her to bits, they loved her, you know. And so it. It's just the being bold is phenomenal. Because if you're fearful about people, what are they going to think of you? Who gives a shit? Like my mom would say, Who gives a shit? You don't like me? I like you.
Robert Pardi:Yeah, well, it's the whole if you if you think of, and here's here's a crazy thing, because they say something like we have 27,000 days, that's the average life. And if we just only had $27,000 in the bank, we'd be pretty careful how we spent those dollars. So that idea of of fear or fear of someone's going to accept you or fear of missing out and all the other fears. Wow, are we just wasting a lot of those dollars? Right? Because yeah, it's a currency. Time is a currency. You cannot
Don Priess:take that with you. You cannot take though that currency with you. Exactly. You know, the 27,000 If you're still living Yeah, I kind of still need the 27,000. But you know what, you got to spend the other currency, the life currency, because you kept that something you're not taken with you?
Robert Pardi:Right. Right. There's, there was a great quote, and I wish I could remember who said it, but it's, you know, every morning waking up and saying, Am I spending today as if it's my last day meaning Am I Am I making those trips? Because, you know, what, if we've offended people, or you know, were wearing something that's way too colorful for something and people think we're we're crazy. There's there's this beautiful woman named Jennifer that I recently met and she has stage four breast cancer and she has rainbow colored hair. And she's like, I have to make it makes me happy. Right? And so it's that idea of if we are trying to stay and you said this earlier Suzy those boxes right if we're staying trying to stay in those boxes, but who the hell define that box? Exactly. I don't think I was born to be in someone else's box.
Susie Singer Carter:Yes, I've never been in that box. I can't stay in that box. I'm close to your box. Yeah. Be home. Box. hashtag, hashtag Be your own boss.
Don Priess:Well, this was just this was a week a week, I think we could talk for the no,
Susie Singer Carter:My God, I love you so much, Robert.
Robert Pardi:I love you guys too.
Susie Singer Carter:I love you so so, so, so much. I wanted to say one thing before we wrap up on I know we've gone too long. But I just wanted to say I was reading this book that Don got from his friend's father's funeral, they gave this book out, like to everybody, but one of the things that I read from it has to do with what you were saying. And Robert, is that, you know, there's what he learned about happiness was two things when times are bad. You should have grace. And when times are good, you should be grateful because both good and bad will pass.
Robert Pardi:Wow, I absolutely love her first grace and graceful that I'm going to take that away. Isn't that gorgeous? Just beautiful. And that whole idea how often do we use this too shall pass. And we we use all the time for only the bad things, and then we're shocked when the good things change. But But what actually is it's just, it's movement through things.
Susie Singer Carter:It's fluidity. Yeah.
Robert Pardi:Now what, what really, and this is what Viktor Frankl says in his book, and other people have said that I wish I could remember there's an amazing woman, she was also a Holocaust survivor. She's like 96, and she's done a TED talk recently. I mean, she's just amazing. And all that stuff changes. If we can become the master of our mindset, to always be in that state of joy or wonder and everything else. That's the thing we have control over more than anything,
Susie Singer Carter:Right. That's why I love that concept of grace and gratefulness. Yeah, because you know, when you're in the happy you don't realize that you need to be grateful for it because it will pass.
Robert Pardi:That's just that's just the way it is. And it's how do we want to show up with grace
Susie Singer Carter:and gratefulness? And I have I'm grateful for you Don, what do we always say when we at the end of our show? Well, first
Don Priess:of all, I do want to note this may be our first show where the time of day changed during it when we started it was completely grayed out.
Robert Pardi:You notice the East Coast in you know the late fall so it's
Susie Singer Carter:Wow. That's true. Beautiful.
Don Priess:We do say this at the end of every show. And and I think this show really, you know epitomizes what we do say and that is love is powerful. Love is contagious, and love conquers all. And we want to thank you for being our guests. We want to thank everyone for listening. And we can't wait to see yous definitely. You know what, we'll put up all your links, your great website, your book, a chance to talk. I
Susie Singer Carter:Follow this this man. He's very inspirational. I love him. He's full of grace and gratefulness. And thank you, Robert.
Don Priess:God, definitely and next time we come back in. Yes. Well, next time we'll come back. We'll talk about your book Chasing Life.
Susie Singer Carter:Oh., yeah! We didn't even get into that.
Don Priess:I know - nothing! We didn't talk about anything. We just wasted our time. Good God!
Robert Pardi:I will personally say that I got a lot out of it. So I preview is fantastic. Ah, book. No book. That's not that important.
Don Priess:Well, thank you, everybody, and we'll see you next time on love conquers all. And everyone take care
