Julio Orr, Founder of Happyer

Julio Orr is an Australian entrepreneur with Columbian roots with more than 15 years of experience in the recruitment industry.

After his first experience with an international recruitment firm in Shanghai, Julio moved to Hong Kong where he held multiple roles for other international firms for 7 years.

In 2015, Julio started his first venture by co-founding The G.R.A.C.E. Group. Inspired by this first experience, Julio then launched Canopy which later rebranded in 2020 as Happyer, a rich-media career platform helping candidates to get a real view into jobs and companies.

Julio is also the founder of Morning Media, a Singapore-based employer branding and creative media house working with startups, SMEs and corporates in APAC.

Transcript

Bertrand Théaud:   0:09
Hello. Hello everyone. So welcome to this new episode of Grown in Asia and very pleased today to have a new guest. Julio Orr is the founder of Happyer. So Happyer is a video-powered job platform. Correct? So far I'm right?  

Julio Orr:   0:28
Yes, yes.

Bertrand Théaud:   0:29
Thank you Julio. Thank you for being with us today. And the first thing I will ask you is to tells us, you know, in a few words, who you are, where you come from, and then we will, you know, speak more about all this.

Julio Orr:   0:44
Sure. Well, firstly, thank you for having me. It's great to be here. And so yeah, just a little bit about myself. So I was born in Colombia and when I was six, I was adopted by an Australian family. So I moved over and grew up in Australia in Melbourne, went to school and uni there. I've been living in Asia for the last 13 years in Hong Kong and Shanghai. My career's being predominately in recruitment. But in the last five years, I started a recruitment business and sold that after a couple of years. And then the last three years has been in sort of HR Tech, sort of start-up business. And so yeah that's where I am today. You know, as you mentioned Founder of Happyer, which is a career platform that gives candidates a real view into jobs and companies through rich content. And we also have a media agency called Morning Media, which helps companies to bring their brands to life through leveraging video and social media. So it's been a natural progression because, you know, our customers, you know, once we're creating videos for them to help with the employer brand, you know, they want more video and they want different kinds of videos. So, yeah, it's sort of been a natural evolution.

Bertrand Théaud:   2:03
Okay. And so thank you for this short introduction. So if we come back to the beginning, so you mention you were born in Colombia, correct?  

Julio Orr:   2:13
Yes.  

Bertrand Théaud:   2:14
And until what age did you stay in Colombia?

Julio Orr:   2:18
Yes, I was six when I left Colombia to move to Australia. Because, you know, I was adopted, so I spent a year in an orphanage. So yeah, that was kind of an interesting experience.

Bertrand Théaud:   2:32
And do you remember that perfectly? I mean that experience. Or you were too young to fully remember?

Julio Orr:   2:38
Yeah, I remember like, you know, when I was really young in my first years in Australia. Even up to my early teenager, I could remember quite a lot. Um, but yeah, I mean, now I think I'm getting older and have grey hairs so I think memories have faded. But it was everything was a good experience. And I was very fortunate. Very lucky, because people don't get to be adopted at six years old. So from the very beginning in my life...

Bertrand Théaud:   3:02
You're right, people would rather adopt babies rather than teenagers. But you were already kind of grown up, right?  

Julio Orr:   3:09
Exactly. So just yeah, I feel lucky from that. I sort of won a lottery, in some sense from the early age. So yes.

Bertrand Théaud:   3:17
And so you moved to Australia?  

Julio Orr:   3:21
Yes.  

Bertrand Théaud:   3:21
Adopted by this is when family on used a nest. Really? I mean, you went to school and then d'you need there. Yes. And what do you What do you study?

Julio Orr:   3:31
Yes, I, um Yeah, I went through all of my education in Australia. Ah, at uni it was psychology, actually, initially started with, Ah, science degree was doing like by medical science or those kind of subjects. And it was because in high school I don't subject. I'd done well. I did well in S o physics chemistry on DH. Then when you're supposed to choose your degree, I don't think we had us much of a career counsellors or people telling us or helping us to guide us to two at Korea. So it was kind of like, Yes, I was good at these subjects. Do that course on DH. So when I started the degree, I I mean, I really loved chemistry, but I think I also like things that I could have quickly apply to my day to day to day life. So, you know, dissecting rats and finding out the chemicals of my two space and things like that. It wasn't really I just I just I just wasn't really, you know, I knew there was something else that I should be doing. And and so I said, started to get some interesting business and people and and you know s O. Then I decided to stay within the science degree and switch to psychology because I thought, you know, I could still study. I can still relate that to business like industrial psychology. And it was It was very interesting. And it was a lot easier to transfer within the same degree than switching to something completely different. Like like a law degree or something like that. So?

Bertrand Théaud:   4:58
So the signs that we will was three years, three years, three years and the psychology for two years?

Julio Orr:   5:04
Yes, because you know, the first year in a bachelor you can do any subjects almost within their science degree.

Bertrand Théaud:   5:12
I don't know exactly. Studies works out that way.

Julio Orr:   5:15
Ah, yes. Oh, yeah. The bachelor degree. It's a bit more open the first year on Ditzel sign. It's all in the same faculty. Anyway, on then, in the second or third, you sort of take a bit more of a specialisation S O s. So, by the time I switched the psychology, you know, it already was. It already accepted My my first. Of course it's that I'd taken.

Bertrand Théaud:   5:38
And the question I always ask toe guess participating in this podcast ahs. When you think of your study, what is it that you learn that, you know still helped you today? Is there anything Some people said Nothing. So I don't know. What about you? Yeah, because you, you know, you did some networking and that so it's really related to where you started. Or is it more, you know, discipline or what else?

Julio Orr:   6:01
Yeah, it's a really good question, because I've thought about this a lot. Um, and I've always thought looked backed, and so I should have done something now. So But, you know, it's it's difficult to know. And at that age, you know, you know, does anything can happen. You know, in your career, in your life, you you don't get too stuck on on that. Don't stress yourself out, Andi. I think the most important thing with you know, whatever you're doing, just do it well. And, you know, apply yourself. You know, every every, every every at all the time that we have is valuable, right? So might as well be doing something valuable with that time. So, um and I think the things that you can learn, you know, do science degree. I think you know, there was a tissue issue. You know how to be logical. You gotto, you know, come up with hypothesis and validate them. And I think, you know, that sort of stuff can be quite quite valuable. You know,

Bertrand Théaud:   6:53
that's something you can apply later on. Yeah,

Julio Orr:   6:55
exactly. So you're not thinking so much about what is the content, you know, whether it's chemistry or so things. That's more about the thought process on DH. So a lot of a lot of those types of things you can really learn in university. Um, so But if I if I could go back, I sort of always wished I did a a commerce degree or, you know, maybe even

Bertrand Théaud:   7:16
lower or

Julio Orr:   7:17
accounting or something. But I think

Bertrand Théaud:   7:19
why that you thought that that would have been their full in for I mean, considering what is your carrier today? You have done.

Julio Orr:   7:27
It feels like that's, you know, because I mean, it's always good to have a sound understanding ofthe accounting. You know, in any business, whether it's your embassies or, you know,

Bertrand Théaud:   7:36
that's funny what you said, because discussing was many entrepreneurs, a lot of them say they wish they will have some knowledge in accounting. Really many. Any of them say that's that's something in the That's a missing body Nim puzzle. Yes, Theis m impression. That would be good to know more about, You know, U p and L and Oh,

Julio Orr:   7:56
yeah. Yes. And I think, And also actually, even today, I even wouldn't. Wouldn't have minded if I had done a computer science degree. I mean, given, like, where we are today and how you know much technologies and part of our world. Yeah, that could have been That could've been interesting as well.

Bertrand Théaud:   8:13
Okay, so you complete your studies, and then what? You stay in Australia for your first job or you That was the first opportunity for you to work abroad. I know a lot of people in Australia do that. Yeah. Reason I'm asking discretion.

Julio Orr:   8:27
Yes. Yeah, I think we've known s Oh, yeah, I think I think since I moved at an early age, when I was six and, you know, moving countries. So I think that trouble bug was in my blood s So I think once I was 24 I was like, OK, now I need to explore the world I knew I wanted to travel, but I also wanted to make more use of that time. S o. I decided that, you know, work and travel s o. I have been learning Chinese at school and, you know, China was booming. And and so I thought, you know, this is probably the place where I need to be. And I was like to choose the kind of more difficult path. So I thought that, you know, maybe not going to Shanghai or Beijing. I think I should go somewhere

Bertrand Théaud:   9:09
more remote. Okay, you go.

Julio Orr:   9:11
Yes, it's in part of window. But it za little village, you know, part of window in the south of China. And it was I didn't speak, Teo. I didn't see any Westerners for a whole three months on DH. The English was quite poor. And so my daily

Bertrand Théaud:   9:27
you have to rely on you on your Chinese. Yeah, which was pretty, pretty poor as well. So you know, don't you Are you were speaking more than some kind of a dialect.

Julio Orr:   9:37
I know. It was put on while. Yes, it definitely started to improve very fast on dso but every day my conversations were quite sort of limited. It was. Hi. You know, the weather is it's sunny today. It's rainy. It's have you eaten? And so after three months, I was just really craving that deeper conversation.

Bertrand Théaud:   9:55
What did you What did you do there, exactly? Teach English in U S.

Julio Orr:   9:59
O. S. Oh, I thought, you know, most myself in the culture learn their language once I've done that, you know, that'll really set me up. And I was actually supposed to stay there for 12 months, but after three months, they couldn't extend my visa on, and I was actually secretly happy. I love the place I love to experience, but I just really wanted Teo, you know? Yeah. Have more conversations. And so, yeah, I started to apply for jobs in Shanghai. I got a job with that Dekker s O that started my recruitment, Korean. So I spent two years in Shanghai, which was amazing.

Bertrand Théaud:   10:32
But at the time, you had this experience somewhere in window. Did you have some serious thinking about what I what do I want to do next? And you knew that you wanted to go India in a career related to our equipment or It's more like, you know, pure random. You're driving child looking for a job. Okay, that's the first job you could You could land.

Julio Orr:   10:52
Yes. Interestingly, most people say they fall into recruitment, like, I think, like 99%. I'm one of those few people that actually sort out recruitment as a career s O. But And the reason is because I somehow had got to know about recruitment. Well, well, so was that unique. And what I liked about it was I liked the fact that you could work with companies like Cooperates and you could work on a storm or strategic level because you're trying to help them, Tio, attract people that you can have a big impact in their business on. And then at the same time, I could also help people on an individual level. Ah, and I think I like that sort of two elements of it that I could have at the same time s O. That's why yeah, that's why I got attracted to recruitment.

Bertrand Théaud:   11:35
Because I'm not an expert in recruitment that to be good at recruitment, you muss thing, you must be good at listening to people. Have somebody understand their needs, what they're looking for, Will. You said that was already one of your strengths at the edge off? I don't know. What was your regiment in, what, 27. Something like that? Yeah.

Julio Orr:   11:53
Mid twenties. Yeah, I think you know, recruitment, actually. Quite a tough job, Tuft. It's a low barrier of entry, like anybody can get into recruitment. But to be a good recruiter, it's actually very difficult because it requires such a broad range of skills, like you have to be empathetic. You have to be a good listener. You have to be good at negotiation. You have to be good at sales. You have to be strategic. You know, you have to be able to connect dots and understand complex businesses and understand the challenges. And, um yes, I s O I guess to some extent I've bean building ups, these things along the way, which I didn't realise, you know, even back to when I was in Colombia, because I think being thrown into a new environment five years old and you have to figure things out. You have to hustle a little bit, eh? So that sort of build up through there. I think when I went into primary school, Um, I was very mischievous. I think coming from Colombia, I didn't have structure. So I think I gave my parents quite a challenge. But But I was always really restless. I was always inquisitive and I knew that there was more out there. So I was always challenging things and causing a bit of trouble. Nothing completely terrible, but just, you know, quite mischievous. Andi. I think I learned, you know, I have great parents and they really helped to kind of focus me more. And so when I went into high school and into uni, I started to channel that I did programmes like startup programmes, and I also found some ways to I don't know how that happened, but in high school way, some of the kids in math class weren't doing their homework and somehow they got to them paying me to do their maths homework. I don't quite remember how that happened, but I was, you know, it was decent cup decent pocket pocket money. Um and even there was a kid in my school and I was in the soccer team and he thought I was good to teach him soccer. So used to pay me Tio at lunchtime to teach him howto kick the ball, which was kind of funny because I wasn't even in a team. I was like a b socket ing. So, yes, I think along of away from when I was little And I'm sort of built up all these kind of skills that, you know, actually, something help enabled me to put that into recruitment.

Bertrand Théaud:   14:07
But I'm when you are in this industry recruitment. So you have to match the needs ofthe, you know, you have to match. What an employer is looking for was what employees also looking for. So and the conversation that you have with the employees on one side, the employees on the other side is that different skills And is it the same way to understand what you know each body is looking for?

Julio Orr:   14:33
Yeah, It's a good question, I think, to some extent, yes, because it's like people skills. It's being able to to understand. I think I think they're so that element of it. Yes, you have to be good at least thing you have to be good at trying to connect dots. I think on the business side, it's probably a bit more commercial savviness because you don't want to be reacting to the market. You want to be able to have connexions in in your market where you can already know things before other people on DSO. Being able to do that takes a bit more commercial. Nous Andi. I think on the people on the candidate's side, it's It's different. It's about, you know, trying to understand their goals. Tryingto understand. You know what drives them on for me? I've always been more of a relationship based recruiter.

Bertrand Théaud:   15:19
But there is a matter of trust, right? Yes. And if you're an employer, the person is two decembre two. Trust you? Yeah. And tell you exactly what they need to hide. Anything you can find the right candidate. Is that something that you build over time? I mean, it was your experience. Did it happen that you work with the same employers again and again or

Julio Orr:   15:37
yes, yes. So that I mean that for me, Like it was very important to be a long term relationships. I mean, you can do it. You could be transactional recruiter. Where? Just job Canada and But I just don't think that at its value Teo party, yes. Oh, so on. And you know, the relationship is a longer, longer approach, but it does actually become more successful s Oh, yeah, with the company. You know, if you're able to prove to them that you know, you're not just trying to close, you know, deal something. You're you're actually trying to make sure that you find someone that's right for that roll on, you give them honest advice and feedback, sometimes something they may not want to hear. But they will appreciate later on on the same thing with the candidate. You know, I have cases. Sometimes we are told the candidate. Look, I don't think this is right for you. This is why sometimes it can. It still took the role, but at least that sort of, you know, was open and transparent with him. So I think these things

Bertrand Théaud:   16:33
how do they react when you told them that you're interesting And you know, if if the candidate is obviously interested in the position on the ones that will not apply and you come up and say you know what? It's not for you. Just to find the right words. Yes.

Julio Orr:   16:46
Yeah, exactly. Is a bit of an art in terms of how you deliver that message. So, um, I think sometimes I think they're a bit surprised because, you know, they don't expect that. Um ah. And I think sometimes people wanted to just sort of believe what they wanted to believe. So, you know, I think so. I think that once once once situation I think that I know that they appreciated it. But, you know, they knew they wanted to take this role on DH. They sort of discounted all those other factors. Esso they still took it anyway, and it actually worked out in the end. But I think it was important that they knew that. So at least once they joined the company wasn't a surprise to them. At least they can also prepare. And, um, you know, so I think overall, you can't really go wrong if you, you know, open, open and transparent. So you know, not to worry too much about you know how they respond because I think sometimes people can respond in the moment, but they have time to sort of digest it. Then you know.

Bertrand Théaud:   17:44
And this first experience in recruitment. So in China, which which year was that roughly,

Julio Orr:   17:49
Yes, it would have been 2000 and 500 to thousands. So it hasn't six. Perhaps

Bertrand Théaud:   17:55
1000 6? Yes. No. Well, I can't remember exactly. But was that at a time where linking becomes very popular? So that did it change the way the recruitment works? Because we'll come back to that later with, you know, with your existing company appear. But was that already a major change? You know, in the recruitment industry, maybe not in China, because not so popular

Julio Orr:   18:18
in China. I wasn't using linking, but what I was using Q Q, which is like a Chinese messaging and platform. And I was using What's that? Actually, what's that was a big tool for me. They

Bertrand Théaud:   18:31
went up in China. Yes, it was possible toe, which had maybe

Julio Orr:   18:35
on definitely wasn't which No, maybe was cute. You? Yeah, You? Yeah. So I mean, it was it was a definite chat platform. So maybe it was Q Q. And, yeah, I was amazed at, you know, cause no, like, you know, stay in Hong Kong would be more about meeting people for coffee and and everything. But I was able just to chat with people and then ask them about what's happening in this company. And and, you know, it was it was just And you could be having, like, 20 conversations at the same time. So I was like, This is great. I was, And I was able to really connect with all

Bertrand Théaud:   19:05
of your focus was on recruiting. I was a local employees, Chinese employees off Reuters. Both.

Julio Orr:   19:10
I'd say probably in 90% was local. Yeah, and I focused on the sales and marketing for FMC G. So I worked with a lot of like like beverage companies, luxury brands, which is pretty exciting because I also got to go to the event. So being young in Shanghai, going to an added s party, That was pretty cool. So, yeah, it's fun

Bertrand Théaud:   19:34
on DSO at this position for a long

Julio Orr:   19:37
essay was two years in Shanghai and doing recruitment in that space.

Bertrand Théaud:   19:42
Yeah, and, um, any reason why I decided to move after these two years? Yes. You thought you know everything about the job and you wanted to do something else. Or

Julio Orr:   19:52
now I think a TTE that time I really wanted to get closer to financial services and I thought that I need to party being like a financial sort of hub like Hong Kong, Singapore, Tokyo, Um, so, yeah, I decided to make the move And, um, yeah, so you know, leaving Melbourne. It's more coastal sort of city. So I also wanted to be, like, be able to just go to the beach within half an hour or something. So

Bertrand Théaud:   20:18
that's a good reason Eso you fairing put it together so it sounds, you know, it's a fiver for your carrier. Exactly.

Julio Orr:   20:27
So but it was I guess it was a bonus, but definitely financial services really interested me. I think, you know, back then it was it's kind of interesting because that was 2008 when I was deciding that financial

Bertrand Théaud:   20:42
thing. This was exactly the right momentum. No,

Julio Orr:   20:44
I know. I know. I didn't even know what was going on at the time on Di arrived in Hong Kong and I was, like, excited about banking. I started to get mandates and working with HSBC and some of these other banks and in five months later, boom, Then it just got tough,

Bertrand Théaud:   21:01
but when you move too uncanny was There was the time you set up your first company or you were still an employee. Was there? It was existing on existing recruitment company.

Julio Orr:   21:09
Yes, I was I My 1st 6 years in Hong Kong was this in employing, So yeah. I mean, that was tough. I

Bertrand Théaud:   21:17
saw a

Julio Orr:   21:17
recruitment companies go from 90 people down to five. So and then I had friends who

Bertrand Théaud:   21:23
was There were no recruitment. How are? Because there was a new whereto organise recruitment and company will not use recruitment company anymore. Using typically what I was, you know, thinking that I was mentioning before I think a combination of both

Julio Orr:   21:37
Yeah, it was No, no, it was because of the financial crisis than old hiring. Just stop. Like, you know, no one was spending money recruit Using recruiting agencies is expensive, so yeah, it was really tough. And I think one of the things I sort of realised is that at the time it feels like, you know, why is this happening? It's difficult, but you know, whenever you look back on things like this, you've realised that it was actually a very important part of making who you are like that built my part of that bill my resilience on. So I think I think now the way I approach things is thinks, you know, we don't have control of everything, you know, But you know, about how we sort of respond to certain situations. So, um, I think now you know when when challenging things come up, I'm like, Okay, you know, this is one of those more another one of those life defining moments. S o. I actually learned a lot from that experience, and I managed to keep my job

Bertrand Théaud:   22:33
because it's a pretty long experience. Six years. So how do you keep that motivation in such a difficult market?

Julio Orr:   22:39
So you know what I was recruiting in? No one was spending. No one was recruiting. And so I quickly figured out, like, I just have to figure out where companies were recruiting and where they were spending willing to spend money. And so I quickly sort of manoeuvred myself into that desk, and I found out that, um, banks were still hiring relationship managers set the frontline, particularly HSBC and Standard Chartered Bank. So I just went all in in that and And it wasn't the fees went this high. He had to do more volume. But it kept me going like I was, you know, I was still recruiting and so I think, and also it was a very local market as well. So people were quite surprised that how you recruiting a more local kind of market. And I just arrived in Hong Kong a few months. But I think these things, you know, it's about how Teo had to look for opportunity. How Teo figure things out and just just make sense, make make things happen. Survive s. So then I think that, you know, kind of

Bertrand Théaud:   23:37
it would be a lot about building unit workers. Well, right,

Julio Orr:   23:39
Yeah. There's a lot of networking, a lot of relationship building being out there. Um, so it's very bright. I guess it's it takes a lot of energy, but I guess you know I was young, so I was able to do it. And I love being out, like meeting people on DH recruitment for six years. It's quite up and down because, I mean, you know, you. Sometimes you're dealing with people on both sides of the equation. Like companies and candidates and people you know by nature, they can change their mind. And they can do things you didn't expect. Esso and you sometimes do everything you think you can do. But at the end of the day, you know people, people change their minds. So it was. It was it was difficult. But I think recruitment can really teach you how to manage your own emotion. Had had a bounce back quickly. So and then I started my recruitment business after that. Six years just

Bertrand Théaud:   24:35
know you kept the motivation that you wanted to do more right? It might sound crazy way I described

Julio Orr:   24:41
how challenging recruitment is that

Bertrand Théaud:   24:44
you could see this industry growing or changing what was Where was the driver? What do you do this out? I don't want to be an employee in this industry anymore, but I want to start my own businesses. Anything you had in mind that make you believe that you could do it better that you know the way you used to do. It was your company. All the company in the market will do it already.

Julio Orr:   25:03
Yes, I think I'm from when I was little. I always wanted to something on my own and, you know, create something. You build my own business. So I think when I got to wanting to be ready to start my own business, I guess it's very scary to be doing something completely new, So felt comfortable to be doing something that I'm already

Bertrand Théaud:   25:21
started from scratch today. You started. You knew already. You will have some mandates from your existing although I guess a noncompete clothes and this kind of thing with your existing employer. I guess I

Julio Orr:   25:30
was actually very nervous about that s o. I didn't tell any of my customers that I was moving, which may be silly, I don't know, but I mean, I was just nervous. I didn't want anything to go wrong. So I was just hoping that once I started my own shop and I got Heller like, you know, I'm actually doing my own thing now that they would actually respond on it was lucky. And I guess it was all that time building relationships. So I managed to get, you know, like Morgan Stanley, H S B. C J P Morgan's like big banks and preferred supplier sort of agreements. Um, so yeah, and I think I've been waiting to do my own business. But it was about finding the right time. And I mean, I think I still at that time I still feel like recruitment. You know, there's there's the needful, good recruitment agencies, good recruiters. It's very hard to find talent and, you know, technology sort of evolving, but it hasn't, You know, there's still space, therefore good recruiters, but I wanted to make sure that I wasn't. I was different. And one of my clients, he was regional head of J. P. Morgan and some of the other big banks s o. He was in the space I recruited for, and he wanted to start his own consultancy and training business. So we talked, and we sort of figured that I could do the recruitment business and we could sort of build it as 11 kind of offering. And I thought that's different. You know, we're kind of coming with experts in the field on DH the side. That's when I sort of realised. Okay, now now is the right time.

Bertrand Théaud:   26:56
So you started this company alone? Always. This there was this. Yeah, you just mentioned?

Julio Orr:   27:01
Yes. Yes, and I'd known him for 10 years. I recruited most of his team, trusted each other. I'm sure the same sort of values. So, you know, it felt right.

Bertrand Théaud:   27:11
Can speaking toe Somebody was an expert in in recruitment. What is the most important values or the skills when you look for an employee or just make sure that that the values and the skills, Yes, but I think I think I gave you a world, right?

Julio Orr:   27:27
Yes, I think I think you have to make sure that they have the skills that they could bring. I mean,

Bertrand Théaud:   27:33
it just feels for you is the foundation. You have the skills, you know, There's no way this person can deliver the kind of work that you want exams. You

Julio Orr:   27:42
Exactly. Alan doesn't have to be the, you know, the number one in the world, you know, But I think I think you definitely have to be about Teo. Yeah, contribute and and and have the skills. But then I think what's really important is then having the especially when you're doing a start up and you've got a small team of five or you know, one person's such a big part of that culture. So I think, yeah, I think I think making sure that you're kind of aligned on sort of values and it is very important. Yeah, especially at the beginning. So I put a lot of focus on that and have been building my team with happier.

Bertrand Théaud:   28:18
Yeah, maybe we come back to their later, but that use It's kind of for some people, it's more like you said that like a buzzword, people have difficulty to understand what on exactly their values, Yes. Will you define it? How can you help a company to understand what are its own values on which you know they can build on the anchor working environment? That is better for the employees. And make sure that, you know, that is, you know this. I mean, that's a vision, but they share the same idea about what I want to do.

Julio Orr:   28:51
Yes, I think it's a really interesting topic, because when I first started the recruitment business, I mean, that was kind of my first proper business, and, you know, you kind of I guess you google when you read stuff and you think about it. How do I start a business? I remember sitting down and I wrote down the values and

Bertrand Théaud:   29:10
so rich in trouble. But the reason I'm asking that when you visit a lot of companies, you arrive, you know, in the lobby. Yes. And then somewhere in the lobby, death company values, Yes, but it looks like this is something that has been discussed or decided by somebody. Or is that a group of people at the top of the company? You don't necessarily have the impression that these values are something is shared with. It was all the employees is actually decent thing. How do you avoid having this disconnection between values that our claim on DH people not actually, you know, having any adherence to these values?

Julio Orr:   29:46
Yeah. I mean, I think, Yeah, I think it's like a very interesting topic, because a lot of companies that might be that disconnect, and it's not enough just to have them around. And sometimes it's actually worse, because if you have them around and people are not leaving them than

Bertrand Théaud:   30:00
people in the world, good

Julio Orr:   30:01
people observe that. And you know, there will be thinking What? Why am I here? So I think you know it and then it comes down to you know, how we've been discussing about employed Brandon and employees experience and, you know, being genuine and authentic. So you know, it's we don't have to do things in the same way that we've always done them. I think it's just trying, Teo. And sometimes you might even have, like, you know, different countries, different locations, different departments. You can have micro cultures and, you know, you can have sort of over watching kind of values. But I think I think it's sort of building things from from the bottom up and, you know, making sure that it's driven from your your people because the values live within people. You know, they're not sort of stuck up on the wall, so I think you can do other things to keep those values alive, you know, through activities, through getting people involved through getting them to share, you know why they love working at this company, a storeys to share with people outside the company. S o. I think you can do it in ways that leaving them rather than just paste in them on a

Bertrand Théaud:   31:09
wall and the larger the company than the more difficult, very

Julio Orr:   31:13
hard. So yeah, it's a very hard thing to do, and to some extent you do need to have some something that people get to see, because then it kind of reminds people off What's the sort of what did the values in the organisation. But I guess they need to then be, um I guess, communicated in in ways through on the different things that they do. So I think today I think companies are being more aware of this. Like you see a lot of companies going into focusing on diversity, focusing on community

Bertrand Théaud:   31:45
on the more authentic. When you speak about the values or

Julio Orr:   31:49
I think they're trying to be, Oh, it's a big thing, todo But I mean, they're trying to trying to shift a lot more towards values driven in terms ofthe the way that they were the way that the way that they get everybody involved in the organisation in different things on. So hopefully these kind of I guess, um, it just becomes part of then. You know that DNA? Yeah, it's a very difficult thing. Todo is one of the hardest things,

Bertrand Théaud:   32:20
but when you wear a recruiter. So you were approached by a company looking to engage you for, you know, for the recruitment needs. Will you, you know, always discuss their values and kind of challenge them to better understand who they are, Or you could be quite because Anyway, at the end zone business, you know, there is a bottom line you need to secure business, right?

Julio Orr:   32:44
Yeah, I actually think that. And I guess this came from one of the skills off observing S O. I don't ask people what are their values. Because then you just end up just regurgitating, you know, whatever is sort of stuck on the warm. So I think, you know, I always want to meet the higher manager when I meet the people in the company because I can, and it's the questions for us on DH. Then it's observing, and it's also like how they communicate with you, Like how they respond with you. You know how they give you the mandate. So if you kind of talk with them often enough, you can. And then, you know, being a good recruiter is knowing your market. So, you know, people who have joined the company before you know people who have left so you can build up this sort of map off the company. And I think that's the real map, you know, actually recruited one thing about a recruiter. They really actually have the data that that's very current. If they're a good recruiting that constantly meeting people out in the market, they actually have the most up to date data on. So, yeah, I think that's that's the way that I would try and understand the company culture valleys

Bertrand Théaud:   33:48
makes sense. And so Okay, So you launched this first company with your partner, So was it a success? Was it the first time your problem was accounting?

Julio Orr:   33:59
So maybe it's by accident, but he was an accountant by trade.

Bertrand Théaud:   34:02
Okay, that helps. Yes.

Julio Orr:   34:04
So And it was I think it was a success in some cases, and I think in some cases, you know, maybe not so I mean, we did manage to build good client base. We did start making revenue. We had some hiring challenges. Ah, finally, he was based in Sydney. I was in Hong Kong and he had to spend more time with his family. His father was getting older Esso and that that was the first time I've done in my own business, eh? So it was quite it was quite challenging, doing it all on my own from going to having him always here to just being on my own. And we had a couple of kind

Bertrand Théaud:   34:40
of what was the most challenging.

Julio Orr:   34:43
I think I was just tryingto just do everything you know, in terms of building the business, setting everything up, getting the right people, getting the people that you've hired kind of being able to get where they wanted to be, where we wanted them to be because it's a new cos there's so many moving pieces. Eso yeah, it was It was just kind of hard just Teo keep, keep pushing and keep moving forward. But I think we were making good progress. And I actually think I think with any, any business that this was the two years we then sold. It's that sort of that time where the company goes through a challenge and then it comes up. So I actually think that we were going to come up again, but we had a couple of companies approach to bias they wanted the Hong Kong presence and a customer base, so and he was not able to spend as much time. So we thought. Okay, let's let's just do that.

Bertrand Théaud:   35:43
And so you sell it to one of your computer?

Julio Orr:   35:47
Yes. Singaporean company with their very strong in Singapore, but no presence in Hong Kong. So it made sense for them

Bertrand Théaud:   35:54
after two years. That's good. Yes, on DH then. So you sold yourself this company. You wanted to stay in the recruitment business?

Julio Orr:   36:04
Yes, on.

Bertrand Théaud:   36:06
Then again, you have a non compete. So you are. Did you manage that? I mean, I guess you had an accompanying people business, so

Julio Orr:   36:12
yes, it was. It wasn't so much and not because that was like traditional recruitment. And then I was doing more moving into more of a HR 10 job platform. So it wasn't wasn't so much of compete. Um, so and I think I mean, now that I've done a recruitment business and had a bit of a taste for study of my own business, I sort of felt a bit bolder. Tio, do something that was a lot different. S o and I had a friend who went I went to school with and he just left an investment bank. He was doing mnh for tech companies on DH. Hey, wanted to also do a tech startup and for some reason, each other. I don't know why, but what I know now, But at the time I was I didn't know why. Out of any tech business, why do you want to do HR? But he always had challenges recruiting, and he sort of realised that this ways that tech and help s so we both had the same vision and we both knew each other for a long time. So we had complementary skill sets. So we're just again. It was the right time. I was serendipitous, I guess.

Bertrand Théaud:   37:14
But you knew about this new business idea and this new partner and this was the motivation to sell your existing business. Were that game after?

Julio Orr:   37:22
Yeah, sort of all just came in around the same time. Like I knew Esten was on the peripheral. Yes, I knew, you know, that my co founder was on the periphery whom I knew what he was doing, but it just so happened, you know, with with the recruitment business

Bertrand Théaud:   37:38
and the first business retrospectively. You will say that you sold it at the right time or on any regret, Anything. You You should have kept it longer to make it grow even bigger. Or you think it was the right decision.

Julio Orr:   37:49
I looking back now, I was the right decision because I really passionate about technology and and, you know, and with technology, it moves so fast. I can't imagine if I was doing it. You know, in five years from now, it's too late. I have to then come up with some other idea. So it just it did really happen in the right time. Um, and also what we're doing today, still, you know, at the beginning, stages s Oh, it's a kind of exciting time.

Bertrand Théaud:   38:19
So we're coming now to what you're doing today? Yes. Can you tell us, you know, a bit more about appear because you mentioned it at the beginning of this conversation? Like to know more?

Julio Orr:   38:28
Sure. So happier is about, I guess where Aiken studies from how we evolved to see some What we're trying to solve eso. Originally, we started it as a referral platform, but we found that it was quite hard to scale that on the platform, But at the same time, we've got to speak to a lot of companies HR candidates on. What we saw was that companies were having a challenge to attract talent, and when we looked a bit deeper, we could see that it was a couple of reasons. One is that, you know, suddenly there were more startups, you know, coming up. And, you know, candidates were no longer going to wanting to work for a big bank or a big corporate, you know, they were OK to go. Well, for us, the seats start up S o this change the dynamics a lot on DH. Companies couldn't just rely on their big brand name or their name on DH. Secondly, you know, it's a generational shift. So, you know, now you've got more than 50% of the workforce who are millennials and Gen Z on the questions that people have today's, you know, what's the culture like, you know, who am I gonna work with? What does the office look like? And job listings Just don't answer those questions. So

Bertrand Théaud:   39:32
that's really in evolution that you've seen through your career. Yes, Yeah, in this new generation, much more focused on the environment and values. And some rather just then just, you know, the the industry and the bay

Julio Orr:   39:44
cheque. Exactly. Yeah, I could I could start to see it when I was recruiting candidates and I was meeting them for coffees and, you know, hearing like what drove them on DH, especially post financial crisis, because people started to do things that I, you know, before they would just go from one same job to the same job, just extra salary and everything and deciding people started to do their start up there in business. And you become yoga instructors and from banking, you know, and so has definitely starting to see a change. So it'll it'll. The dots were sort of connecting, and I thought, I can't great. So cos they're having this challenge candidates asking these questions, But then existing platforms and I, you know, sort of entering that. So, you know, that's where happier involved, which is a rich media, a career platform. So thinking about what's the best way to give candidates of you into the company apart from them, going and visiting every company just too time consuming. We go and do that for them. So we go in, take video with the higher managers with look at the office, talk about the culture. We do pod cars. So then candidates can get a lot more insight, and it makes him sort of feel whether this is the right fit for them on before they apply. They kind of feel already, you know, fairly confident that

Bertrand Théaud:   40:58
you know, really a lot about the company.

Julio Orr:   41:00
Exactly. And so and we've been getting, you know, it's been great feedback on on both sides eso but it's still new in Asia, you know, Cos leverage in video employed Brandon is still kind of relatively new here in Asia s. So, you know, we also have to pay some new ground sort of help companies to learn about how to have to do that and had a leverage video on Say Yeah,

Bertrand Théaud:   41:24
but what is it about them probe raining that employers do not understand? Yes. They want to keep on, you know, recruiting people the same traditional. Whether I've been doing it for the last 30 years, they don't understand this shift about the generation that you just mentioned or

Julio Orr:   41:41
yeah, I mean, I actually think I think they understand, but I think it's going from discussions. Teo, then implicit in implementing takes, takes a bit of work right on DH, you know, and actually doing video the first time is not easy. S O. I mean, it's not difficult once you sort of figured it out. But

Bertrand Théaud:   42:02
you asked people in the company I mean, yes, some people within the company, because the management of the sea or the thunder. Yeah, ending with what the computing is to basically to sit in front of the to sit in front of the camera and just about the company.

Julio Orr:   42:16
Exactly. Exactly. But we're also pushing the boundaries a little bit because, you know, we want to be trying to be more innovative in how storeys are told so way do something. We're doing something different. Which is take me to work s o like we worked with money. Smart. The head of U ex design went to her home, knocked at the door on ask questions about who she is, you know? What do you What's the first thing you do in the morning? We followed her to her a 45 class. She picked up some food to cook that night. Then we got into ah, like uber and we start asking questions about demystifying u X is a Korea and you're getting advice from her. And then we followed her into the offer's saw her team. So I think this kind of, you know, I think when candidates join a company, they're not just joining that manager there joining that person, you know who they are. I'm so so I think trying to create ways that share Bickmore Storey a bit more behind the scenes

Bertrand Théaud:   43:13
there there is So there is a lot of Storey Deming Exactly. Exactly on this pretty creative. Yeah,

Julio Orr:   43:19
the storytelling is probably the part that is harder s O But, you know, just start by pointing a camera like iPhones are amazing. Four k. You could just point a camera. You can shoot decent footage, so I think it's just experimenting a little bit. It doesn't have to be perfect. I think one thing with corporate sees, you know, they try to be really perfect and, you know, followed, like, brand guidelines, which I know it's important. But when it comes Teo, your employer, Brandon Oh, advertising. Teo trying to attract candidates. You can be raw, you know. And Ken is actually prefer that they prefer that it looks like, you know, you just took it quickly. As soon as you start to add all those layers off production, then you know they start to smell like this. This is maybe not riel say,

Bertrand Théaud:   44:08
but just to understand So but your business model is no longer the business model of a typical recruitment company because you're more like a PR company focusing on recruitment, correct or doesn't work.

Julio Orr:   44:20
Yeah, yeah, we're definitely not the same models in recruitment business because that's based on it's a success model. You only get paid if you actually successfully place somebody. But for John, for a platform in general for our job platform, it's more subscription based companies pay monthly subscription. I still say that we're job platform there, but yes, behind that, we are really content and media that that's what powers it. And that's actually what is What's the differentiator as well, the strength on DH. That's why way have our media agency, because we think that in order to keep making sure that our companies creating the best content, the best media. You know, we need Teo keep keep pushing the boundary and being creative on DH, then their hopes are customers be successful. So I think you're right. There is that sort of PR media behind it. But But we still have a job platform. Where? A career platform.

Bertrand Théaud:   45:18
Yeah, sure, Yeah. But then so you let me understand the the process, So Okay, you you have a company interesting and engaging you for services that you provided. You add them, shooting this videos with the storeys. That was some storey telling answers. Make it more lively on DA. And then you post these videos on your platform. But then do you Goethe other than that, and help the company to distribute that contact on social media? Because I guess that's also keep out to make sure that these videos have some, you know, have some views somewhere yet in a way, exactly on the Internet.

Julio Orr:   46:00
Exactly. Actually, that that is really key. That's half of it s Oh, yeah, you're right. We do help the companies to create the content which is shared on the happier platform. But without media, the media agency we have are in digital magazine team, you know, graphic designer. So we've got, you know, the whole team behind us. That then helps to distribute the content and distributing the content you know, requires first of all, creating content in the right way. So, like for Facebook instagram, you've gotta create it vertically and like storeys,

Bertrand Théaud:   46:34
there are technical guns.

Julio Orr:   46:35
There is. There are yeah, and also like the Because every platform has a slightly different the audience are looking for something slightly different. So for instagram storeys, it's it's shorter. It's like 10 seconds, whereas, you know, if Arlington, you know, people are going on there to read articles to be up to date with the industry, so you could probably have longer sort of videos. Eso Then it's, you know, understanding the different platforms, the audience creating the content in the right way and then distributed distributing it in the right way as well. So, yeah, there's actually quite a bit of art and science behind it, But one of the great things about Social media marketing is that it's not tapped into yet, like very few companies are doing much of it. But it's got like such hard, higher r A y because you can specifically target you know, the audience that you want to reach on DH. It's, you know, you can get, like, very detail analytics. Andi, I think the other thing is, Well, if you look at on 19 honey, I think this 30% of people actually active on 19. Whereas you look at Facebook's like, 70% eso you need to sort of go where people are. But then you can't just put the content that you normally put on job. So descriptions. You then have to get the content right s o. We help companies on you. No end to end that the whole sort of floor on dso essentially sort of really helping to build the employer, Brandon Andi also to attract candidates for their job postings on our platform.

Bertrand Théaud:   48:10
And you, you still have this focus on the financial industry. Most of your clients are, you know, banks and get banks insurance or you more targeting more start ups or yeah, right can be everything.

Julio Orr:   48:23
Yeah, it's quite agnostic because every any company that hires people well have

Bertrand Théaud:   48:29
done surely their usual service.

Julio Orr:   48:30
Exactly. But we have I mean, we started with startups because that ups we were start up. So, you know, And but now we're working with larger companies. So we've working with society. General Wing, Hang bank. You know, we did some employees Brandon video for them recently. Andi through to, like, big start up. So well, I mean deliveries, you know, like a unicorn. Very successful. So we're actually doing some video employed branding video for them soon, eh? So? So? So there's two parts one for our platform. Happier. We have sort of set type of videos that we do, but then companies, if they want to do something more creative, then we would do more be spoke video production. So, you know, it might be take. It might be a day in the life ofthe or, you know, might be. Maybe they've got some special event and they want to capture that event or so. So there's 22 elements to what we do,

Bertrand Théaud:   49:27
but that's good. I think the way you approach recruitment is great. It's very innovative. Andi do I mean, did you get this idea on your own or this is because you know the market very well or the other. Some other companies in other part of the world that are doing something similar. Do you have competitors in Hong Kong? I mean, that's many question in one, but just Tio have a better sense of what is this where you know where all this is going?

Julio Orr:   49:51
Um, I mean, interestingly, because when we started as a referral platform, I wasn't looking in the market for this type of model, and it just really evolved by accident because I remember going to an office and I thought because I was always thinking about how we can do something that we can then post, like, how can we create content, had some content in the back of my mind. And so I said, Let's just go there and just take photos because maybe they'll like the photo and they'll put it on to LinkedIn and taggers. So that's where it started. And then that was working on a

Bertrand Théaud:   50:24
very basic of the booth.

Julio Orr:   50:27
Super basic. And then we're thinking, Let's try video so and then that that time, like, you know, just very basic iPhone and whatever on DH that worked. So then so then it was okay this distance. You know, this is something that we've already kind of knew that companies were struggling to attract them and they needed something. So we're just kind of connecting everything. And then it was then that I started to sort of research around the world on Di did find that there were companies that we're actually doing something similar in Europe and the US in Asia There are, but they've kind of very, I think, where from what I've seen, I think we're the one that's got kind of the most kind of companies on the platform that kind of been growing the fastest. Um, yes, I think, in terms of competition, I suppose you know, you know, it's that there's ones overseas, I think, from local markets, you know, it's still kind of the company shall probably still sees, like, your jobs DP and you're linking, you know, I've got the, you know, very dominant. I share off the kind of recruitment, recruitment sort of market. But I always think that, you know, when you're talking to HR, they actually they can't rely on one channel. It's all about complimentary channels. So that's why you know, when I talked to cos it's about trying to add another at a complimentary channel because you know each channel has their own purpose on. And I think alcohol's has something that can be, you know, quite unique. And candidates do tend to go on more than one platform. You know, they went when they're searching for If they hear about your company there, you know more than 50% of candidates will actually research you. They'll go on your website, they will go on your social media. They

Bertrand Théaud:   52:09
really did do it a lot of interesting. The job. Yes,

Julio Orr:   52:12
sure, they go in there on the happier, But it's just because, you know, I mean, today there's all these platforms and people are just in that sort of research mode, like, you know, people ways like Google stuff, right? So they're just in a habit off researching anything, and that includes companies. So we're we're really trying to get companies, encourage companies to, you know, be unhappier because it's, you know, we're kind of 1/3 party. And then, like, you know, candidates don't always trust what companies say about themselves. I guess it's natural, right? So, yeah, I think a lot of what we're trying to do. His champion in employer, Brandon Champion, in video in the region. You know, we want more companies to be doing more of it.

Bertrand Théaud:   52:53
So the videos are only accessible on your website, not on the company's website. Yes, yeah, yeah, this trust issue.

Julio Orr:   53:01
But we do actually share way hosted on YouTube and we share Thie Earl with them so they can still embedded on their website and on this other platforms.

Bertrand Théaud:   53:12
And just the good thing is that you can provide the company was some data about our many views and people. People come back and cheque the video and so on.

Julio Orr:   53:21
Yes, exactly. Because, yeah, at the end of the day, I think it's always about Sarah wise. So yeah, it's it's important.

Bertrand Théaud:   53:28
And do you also have discussion with the companies to make sure that there is some consistency between what they do with you and the other channels that they use for recruitment? Because otherwise may be an issue right? If they look pretty cool on the video like get, that's the price. But I want I want to work and there are some other news not going in the same direction That conveying the same message, You know, at the time you do a Google search on the company?

Julio Orr:   53:51
Yes. I mean, that definitely would be the company. Trying to make sure that there's consistency. We would give them advice, and we help them if they're, you know, want to have us involved in that. But yeah, I think what we did to just focus on is making sure that on our kind of platform and social media that we're helping with them that were kind of keeping that message consistent. So but yeah, it's harder these days because this there's so many, like glass door and you know, so I think actually been in HR today is very challenging. You know, you having to, like, see new technologies, new platforms, having to change the way that you recruit S O h r. You know, now they really like, you know, digital marketing people, you know, they will, you know, they need to be thinking off recruiting in that way on that change. Take takes a bit of my mind shift. Yeah, mind shift, but ah, way. Actually been running workshops. Teo, help. H r t kind of get up to speed with some of these, man,

Bertrand Théaud:   54:56
for some training to your client? Yeah. What you do is very I mean, very elastic approach. Yes. And

Julio Orr:   55:03
I said, That's that. I think that's the key. You know, being holy stick about it. So

Bertrand Théaud:   55:07
the being autistic means you need a lot of different skills in your company. So do you manage it? Are you speaking to a recruiter and you make sure that you find the right people? We discussed very shortly about various skills, but without the first to question of three question that you asked to any people applying for a job. But here's something you can share. I have them at the top of your mind.

Julio Orr:   55:29
I wish I could tell you that I've got this, like, incredible question. Like I think I think Elon Musk has like this question that he asked everybody. But I don't have any sort of fancy questions. Um, but I think because like my

Bertrand Théaud:   55:42
there is this final, if it's scientifically proven that when you met with somebody for the first time, you're you know, things like after three or five seconds, you already have an idea about that person, even though that person, you know, maybe has not said a word. So

Julio Orr:   55:57
and then the rest of the interview, you just pick things that support that?

Bertrand Théaud:   56:01
Yeah. The whole of youse guys first impression that you are very chairs,

Julio Orr:   56:06
like just being human s O. Yeah. I actually don't have any specific questions. I think I I just like to meet people and have a conversation. And that's because, you know, we're a small team, and I now you know, really go with my gut feeling my instinct, I sort of learned in the past that I should do that s o I s O. I think when you're talking to somebody, if you're a small team of five or so and you know every person being such a key part of that culture. So I actually want to get behind that person. I understand who that person is and what drives them. And so it's kind of similar, like, you know, the way that you talk to me. I mean, I know that you don't have any sort of specific something you wanna ask me, but I think it's more natural, and you kind of able to I move to, you know, the conversations where you can learn more about that person s Oh, that's the way that I approach when I interviewed people when I meet people, but then I think it's it's then tryingto get them tio, work on project with us or, you know, come into the office for a couple of hours and get to spend some time with the team, grab a lunch with us, um so tryingto make sure that they feel and that we feel like it's a good fit and I don't really want to leave. I think

Bertrand Théaud:   57:20
it's a very human approach. You don't have a list of question, our quiz quiz question that you want them to answer and that you get a score and you know where you decide whether it's exactly Roy. So which I deliver is the right way to do it. The only thing is that it is more time consuming

Julio Orr:   57:38
like us, you know, because I've been recruiting for 10 years, it's it's sort of in there, so I'd probably do it subconsciously. So I actually do think that in the back of my head I am thinking about all the things that I need to know, but I'm Yeah, I'm just kind of more having a conversation. So and I think it's very important just to find out. You know what drives them? What's what did the values? Because when you're a startup, it's You know what? When we're gonna have a challenging situation, how you gonna, you know, adapt to that? You know what you're going to do when you don't have everything in front of you. You don't have all the resources. Um ah, like, you know, when you when you fail, like, how do you how do you How do you respond to failure? And so, yes, I think it's different kinds of questions all different types of things you're trying to find out about. You know how that person takes.

Bertrand Théaud:   58:31
Okay, So because you are job platform, so means that, you know, people can find you on the internet so these people can be anywhere on the planet. So today you focus on on Kong on me or any intention to expand beyond Hong Kong or, I don't know, maybe you already are, you know? Yeah. Expanding beyond on con

Julio Orr:   58:53
eso. Yeah, we've actually already started so Hong Kong and Singapore way have officers in both. Singapore is in the process of opening but we've already started business in Singapore. Att Leased in terms ofthe going tio do video shoots and yeah, just We actually went to Singapore a few weeks ago. We got invited by the Singapore Fintech Association to shoot video for the event, which is where it was really great on DH. So that's kind of more in the morning media side s o. But the plane then is probably Australia. But for now it's, you know, Hong Kong and Singapore.

Bertrand Théaud:   59:32
What is the main challenge when you start? You know, going via Hong Kong that the storytelling behind the video that will not be the same depending on whether you're dressed people to be recruited in a company in Australia versus Hong Kong or something that you must give some thinking, I guess.

Julio Orr:   59:47
Yeah. I mean, interestingly, the first challenge is getting the right people. I mean, I've got an amazing team in Hong Kong on and said the buys high, you know? Sorry. Yeah, I think that's that's a That's a challenge.

Bertrand Théaud:   1:0:02
That's the number one challenge.

Julio Orr:   1:0:03
Yes, Yes.

Bertrand Théaud:   1:0:05
Okay, so I have a few questions that I traditionally as at the end of this podcast. First out do you on? Do you continue to progress? I mean, do you listen to podcasts? Looks this case was as many people as possible. What is your What is your trick?

Julio Orr:   1:0:24
S O, actually? Yeah, like the last one that you mentioned. I actually do love talking to people meeting people on board. Yeah, And it's only just when you said that. Because when when you were said books in Podcast On, Like, I remember

Bertrand Théaud:   1:0:38
all the ones that over listen to.

Julio Orr:   1:0:39
But yeah, we learned by meeting each people. So I do. I actually need a lot of people every week and and, you know, founders and people from from different areas. So I am learning. You know what they do? What made them successful where they failed? Um, but yeah, I've been getting more into podcasts. I like masters of scale. I wantto get more into the into podcast. I think there's some really great content out there on books. I love reading. I haven't read as much as I want. Teo, that's actually coming to to 20. I was like, Yeah, make That is another goal. But some of the books I've read recently was 0 to 1. I really like that Peter View. Um, I was read Tuesdays with Morrie, which I

Bertrand Théaud:   1:1:23
don't just want what

Julio Orr:   1:1:25
was size. It's a it's ah, Strip based on a true storey, but it's a storey of a professor who reconnects with one of his old students, Mitch. And he's just every Tuesday, you know, you know, the professor's sort of coming to the end of his life and, um um, every day, every Tuesday, they would meet up and he was sort of get some life lessons, and it was just a really great book. And, you know, I do spend Ah, when I do read, I always feel like I should be reading something that I can apply to my business. Or but it's nice to read sometimes something that you know, it can be different to be a bit of an escape s. I like I like that book because it was just, you know, things that a simple and basic, it's just appreciating time and valuing time and people and, um and yes, I quite enjoyed that book sort of stuck in my head for a little bit. I just read it in the last few months. Um and Ah, yeah. I think the other thing was been trying to look into some of these with me sort of courses and things. And I'm just trying to like, short. I think these air pretty cool, sort of learn an obscure little bit.

Bertrand Théaud:   1:2:32
Just have to find the time to do it

Julio Orr:   1:2:34
exactly. I try to cutting one. Actually, you can download an app and just I did a few sort of I, um I did a few off them. Um, S O that that's being pretty, pretty fun.

Bertrand Théaud:   1:2:45
That brings me to my next question. How do you organise your day? Are you very you very organised. You know, You know what you will do Everyone that use their You know, when you have meetings with your team, when you have me again with his clients and what you do at what time you do it or is more rodeo Stein,

Julio Orr:   1:3:04
I am. It's not something that has come naturally to me in the past, but I've found a way to be a lot more organised. So I think now I'm fairly organised.

Bertrand Théaud:   1:3:14
You decided to do that because it helps you to be more efficient, more productive. Yes. Yes. You thought there was a need to go that way. It was

Julio Orr:   1:3:22
It was It was so important. Like, you know, e. I mean, every day you want to be focusing on the right things, important things. And I found that when I wasn't as organised, I I could spend a day and I haven't done anything that was

Bertrand Théaud:   1:3:34
actually not you realised you were. A lot of you haven't done anything significant.

Julio Orr:   1:3:39
Exactly. Exactly. So especially since I started my own businesses. And you're wearing a lot of hats and you know, so over the last five years, I have become a lot better at it, and s so the way I do it is I'm so in the morning. I would look at my sort of to do this, and I use the app core priority matrix. So it's got four quadrants, and so you're one quadrant is, like, critical and immediate that have to do that today on DH. Then the other quadrants sort of urgent, but doesn't have to be done immediately. Other stuff could be delegated. That's a good way of Of Prioritisation Matrix. Yeah, and it comes from one of these models that's famous, you know,

Bertrand Théaud:   1:4:20
both long your company

Julio Orr:   1:4:21
based and also my computer s o. I start with that. And so you know, there's so many things, but if I put them into the right back and I kind of know what to focus on, but I'm a bit old school, so I actually have a little notebook. It's a tiny little notebook, so I write the ones that are critical and immediate. So if I don't get these done today, that sze bad good, yes. Oh, those does. And if I write them down, I'll it sits in front of me, I can see it, and I cannot love crossing them out. So it's a bit old school, but I find then because sometimes if I go into my lap and I can still see, I know what I'm supposed to focus on. But there's all these other things on the peripheral, so sometimes technology can can sort of throw you off a little bit. It's supposed to make you more efficient, but I do like a bit of the old school andan. I think it's so That's a good way to start the morning and then at the end of the day is kind of reviewing sort of what you've done on dim planning for the next day. And then that that sort of

Bertrand Théaud:   1:5:17
cycles where you have this routine, Yeah, just make sure you use down tracking.

Julio Orr:   1:5:20
Yeah, and there are days where I get thrown off because things come up, but it's not getting to sort of stress that about that, you know, just tryingto. Yeah, you can any do as well as you can.

Bertrand Théaud:   1:5:32
Okay, maybe a final question. Um, there will be more questions. Final question, as is there any advise a recommendation that you will give based on your experience. Knew anyone who wants to start his business whereas a business already?

Julio Orr:   1:5:50
Yes, s o I guess this one. I probably I mean, there's a lot of books out there, you know, that gave some great advice, like, you know, the y Combinator and, you know, reading these Peter, Theo and all these books. But I think one thing that's really important is like, if you're doing a start up, it's so easy to get caught up on DSO and you always feel like you don't have enough time And so you can neglect like the things that are so important. So I think just, you know, make sure that you look after your health like eat well and exercise. Meditate, carve out time because you will never have time because they're always be something. Today you could work 24 7 So you have actually got to be a little bit religious about and go OK this day Oh, have one hour and I'll do this on So I think. And I actually thought like when I was starting my own business is that I I thought I will do that. And then I ended up for the first couple of years. I was like I was too busy on dso I've actually in the last year I've got back into that. I exercise every day and I actually felt like it's a lot more clarity. I have some do high intensity training and so when I do hi Intense storey actually have come up with my best ideas and I sort of solve problems as well. So, um, I think that's my advice Just make sure that you stay focused on yourself.

Bertrand Théaud:   1:7:10
You just have a discipline. No, you? No. You execute the world, but you know part of the world. Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah. On then. Eso final final question. Is there any question that you wish I'd asked s so you could answer? That's a good question. If just in case there is anything that out of your mind, I think I missed. Or if not I know,

Julio Orr:   1:7:34
I know. I think I mean, I think you asked everything I can think off. So, yeah, I really enjoyed the conversation. Say

Bertrand Théaud:   1:7:42
do. Thank you, Julio. It was a very good few year on this podcast. Eso again? If you know one of the more about Julio, then well, you can get in touch. He's your work to get in touch with you. Is what? Yes. Quiz me.

Julio Orr:   1:7:55
Arlington? Yes, we're relaunching the website. Happy www happier dot Io But that will kind of be launching a couple of weeks.

Bertrand Théaud:   1:8:07
So forward to seeing this new website. Yes, Andi by then. So thank you for all of you listening to this broadcast and happy to have you on the next podcast and as always, say have a good one. My Thank you.

Julio Orr:   1:8:21
Thanks, veteran. Thank you