S6E2 Health: Sonia Jhas, Cultural Definitions of Beauty, Disordered eating, and Unwinding the Narrative...

Would you have the courage to call off a wedding after 800 invitations had been sent out when you realized that this wasn't what you really wanted?

Would you have the courage to walk away from a corporate executive job at IBM because you were slowly dying inside?

Would you have the courage to share about your struggles with disordered eating and navigating what beauty and success truly means to you?

In my conversation with Sonia Jhas we cover all this and more! Sonia is an award winning Mindset and Wellness Expert who has been dubbed one of North America's leading voices in health and wellness. Her Tedx talk "Where do the Happy People Live?" has been viewed over a million times and she has appeared in over 75 different publications. 

We talk about her definition of wellness, optimizing morning routines, exercise, nutrition and more!

You can follow her at...
Sonia Jhas (website)
IG: #soniajhas
LI: Sonia Jha

My recently launched co-authored book Peak Performance: Mindset Tools for Entrepreneurs just hit the Amazon Best-seller list in the US, Canada, and Australia!

Thank you for all the support!

You can get your copy here for 99cents during the launch! Writing a review is also tremendously helpful!

Transcript

Sonia Jhas: 0:00

You look in the mirror every morning and you pick apart every part of your body, you are consistently on the hamster wheel of weight loss. You are either eating enough for a village to get it in so that then you can fix yourself by punishing yourself later and going into extreme deprivation. I think for the first time I was ready to call myself out. I think for the first time I was actually able to be like, you can do whatever else you want, but until you can find some version of alignment and harmony with you and your body, you're going to continue chasing job after job, when the crux of the issue is your self-worth.

Michael Bauman: 1:23

Hello, everyone. I have really exciting news. We did it. So we hit Amazon bestselling author list. Thank you guys so much for all your support. I read every single review. I've read every single one, every single comment. They meant the world to me. Thank you again. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You guys are amazing. I could just keep the saying. Thank you. But I think you probably also want to hear our next guest. I just wanted to really, really appreciate you guys for all of your support during this launch, you are amazing. So let's get back to the show. I know you guys will enjoy this next guest. So welcome back to Success Engineering. I'm your host, Michael Bauman. And I have the pleasure of having Sonia Jhas on the show today. She's a award-winning mindset, wellness expert. Her TEDx talk has actually been viewed over a million times. It's called Where do the Happy People Live? She's been dubbed one of North America is leading voices in health and wellness. Has appeared in over 75 different publications. I mean, basically it's just everywhere. I'm really excited for the conversation. So welcome to the show Sonia.

Sonia Jhas: 2:31

Thank you so much. That was that was quite the introduction. Yep. Thank you. I appreciate that. It's weird when you hear it back to yourself. You're like, oh, cause this morning when I was like getting my kids ready, they were. Mom, this isn't the cereal I like. And mom, you're forgetting my backpack and you're like, oh wait. Okay. Yes. I'm not like failing at life. Thank you for presenting that back to me,

Michael Bauman: 2:54

Ah,

Sonia Jhas: 2:54

needed the reminder. So we are off to a good start. So

Michael Bauman: 2:58

there you go. I could just end it right now and just be like, Hey

Sonia Jhas: 3:00

Yeah, we're good. I feel successful. We're done.

Michael Bauman: 3:03

Exactly. Engineered this success full stop. No, you have done a bunch of incredible things and we'll get into some of the nitty gritty of the process behind those incredible things that you've accomplished. But I did actually want to start by exploring. So you're basically the child of Indian immigrants live in Canada. But talk to me about how those different cultures that you kind of have warring, in your mind, you're Indian. And then you're like, how do I fit in here and how that kind of shaped your early years and your identity and purpose and stuff around that. What did that look like for you?

Sonia Jhas: 3:37

Oh man. Yeah. The Indian upbringing thing certainly created a very specific foundation for my upbringing that in so many ways really served me. And despite feeling like an angry, angsty teenager, my entire life as an adult now, I'm very grateful for the level of excellence that was expected by my parents. So unlike a lot of Indian parents, my parents actually came here separately. My dad was doing his, I think MBA. My mom was doing her masters. They met here, fell in love. I say, quote unquote, cause what does that mean for Indian parents for so not sure, but they chose each other. Went home back to India, got married, came back and then began their lives here together. They were already on the career focused path that was going to be in the corporate world. My dad worked at IBM. My mom worked at bell Canada at the time, and they were both in the corporate space, which is not necessarily that common, particularly at that time for south Asian people, there were a little bit more involved in blue collar jobs, a little bit more labor oriented. So that was different from my parents for sure. They also weren't doctors, which was also different, right. There was like a population of Indian doctors here that were like the successful professionals. Then there was the community that was a little bit more hands-on in the labor force. And then there was a small subset of the population that were like the we're going to make it in the corporate world type of people. And, I think that was really interesting because They themselves was, were working through their identity to try and fit into the corporate world, to, find that balance between being true to themselves and to own their sort of Indian heritage. But at the same time blend in, course correct their accents play the game as they needed to. And so I think for me that was an interesting landscape to be a part of right off the bat. So, they were well immersed in the North American population here. We would have a lot of corporate dinners and we were going to the Canadian version of Broadway and doing all sorts of sort of sales oriented activities through my dad's company that were giving us a lot of exposure. So on one hand, it wasn't really oh, I'm a brown girl living in this world. And I don't really know where I fit in. It felt very natural to be a part of, the environment. And I had very multicultural friends if they went to a school that was relatively mixed. I grew up in an area called Richmond hill, which was actually primarily Chinese. There was obviously your regular Caucasian folks, and then slowly came the slightly more affluent south Asian community. So I grew up with a lot of Indian friends. I grew up with a lot of multicultural friends and it felt very normal, I think, on the outside. On the inside though, within the household, there was very strong evaluation criteria of what you were supposed to look like, how you are supposed to behave, what excellence meant in terms of academia. The need to be exceptionally well-rounded. And so I think it was a combination of the culture, but also my parents specifically, like they were really hardcore and they were hardcore with themselves and therefore they were hardcore with us. And I have an older brother who is eight years older than me. And he was born like bonified gifted, like not the pretend kind where you're like, I've got talents. He was just like straight up gifted. And so he was the the testing ground prior to me coming into the mix. Right. They had eight years with this child who was an old soul, very polite, very calm, a very talented musician, an avid tennis player, an excellent swimmer. Just very well-rounded and they didn't have to do much, right. There was like this air of success that was demanded and he just delivered effortlessly and they were like, this is how you breed exceptional children. Like we are winning. Yeah. Phenomenal people like we've cracked the code. We are winning. And it has been validated by 850 of our family friends, Wicked! Then came Sonia loud, boisterous, big personality, giant teeth just a really unique combination of factors coming out the gate. And the expectations were the same, right? The expectations were Personality was a bonus, but the foundation of academia of that extracurricular emphasis of really staying focused and steadfast, there was like a demand of inherent discipline in the household. And anything else that felt like a deviated from that was just not celebrated Now it's not like my parents were abusive by any standards. It wasn't that they were yelling and screaming and hitting and really being overt about their expectations. But I think culturally, I knew that the expectations were what they were and they very quickly became my own expectations. And so I resented the expectation, but I also really believed that the expectations. Was the formula for success. And so I think very early on, it created a really difficult environment for me because I wanted to be that person. And for a long time, I was able to fake being that person. And then things started to get tougher and tougher both academically and from an interpersonal standpoint. And it created that sort of war, that inner outer war that went on for years, essentially until I was 25. We'll talk about that piece later but really, I think for me, it was like, it's almost like the south Asian piece was covert in a way. Because we were so well assimilated with the community. We also had a ton of Indian friends. So the culture was celebrated. We were, not really sitting there being like, we're so different. Like it's hard to be here. It all felt really natural. I wasn't experiencing racism of any kind. I felt really welcomed, I think, overall both in school and everywhere that I was. And I think my parents felt the same thing. And yet I think. The south Asian piece really created the environment that set the stage for so much of my own lack of authenticity, discomfort, all of the internal pain that I went through. I don't want to be like it's because I'm brown, but I think it's it really had a lot to do with the fact that I was Indian. And then also my parents were cut from a very specific cloth. And then I had a very specific brother and the environment was just really compelling to want to be a certain version of person, whether it felt good or not, because you believe that if you can just get there, if you can just find a way to take all the boxes, then you'll make it to the finish line and then you'll be able to drop your shoulders and be like, okay, Now I can be who I want to be and I'm happy. And then of course you realize that's not the way life works. That's absolutely the exact opposite of how anyone cultivates their authenticity or finds happiness. And you make a massive course, correct. 25 years later. But I want to say like a lot of my friends being south Asian felt really challenging. But I also think in a way, by the time I was born here in Canada and particularly in Toronto, in the GTA growing up It didn't feel abnormal to be Indian. It didn't feel like a major thing. And I know that's unique to the timing of when I came, because my parents will talk about the fact that it was very different for my brother. And it was different for them just, to eight to 10 years earlier than I was there. Right. Like that it was still different. And they were trying to navigate in a really deliberate way. Whereas by the time I was growing up, we were having, cultural events and Bollywood performances and we would, have, days where you would celebrate the Divali at school and things like that. And that was already there from my early elementary years. So it was well, what do you mean this wasn't happening before? This is so obvious. So a very roundabout way to say complicated nuanced, but really, I think it was a hybrid between being Indian, specifically being raised by my parents that created a lot of the chaos.

Michael Bauman: 12:11

Yeah, and I want to get into, I mean, you talk a lot about, on the stuff that you do and the information and the content stuff you put out, you talk a lot about body image and just negative self-talk and things like that. And I'm curious for you when did some of the challenges around that and that definition of beauty start to kind of cause friction and start to be a challenge in your life.

Sonia Jhas: 12:32

I'm going to have a really specific answer to this, which seems a bit unusual, but I had very strange aha moment when I was writing my book. I was thinking of stories and things to share, and it was reflecting back on, like when did the fatphobia start for me. Right? The internal fatphobia. I was never looking at anybody else being like, oh my God. And so worried that they're big. It was this internal reflection of the fact that I need to look a certain way because... And when I was writing the book, I had this moment where I was able to very vividly place myself back to this moment when I was nine years old. I was in grade four. Some math class teacher was talking, I was loosely paying attention. And this was the time where like bodysuits for all the rage. And I was obviously like a very cute little cool kid or at least attempting to be. And so I was wearing the body suit and these like pants. And I was sitting in class and playing with my hands or something in my lap. And I remember looking down at my hands and having this thought for a moment where I was like, oh God, like your stomach is totally round! It's not flat. Why is it doing that? And I proceeded to spend the rest of my math class, trying to figure out if there was a way for me to suck in my stomach, the way you do when you like taking a deep breath. And you're like, oh my God, it's so flat! Do that while still being able to breathe so that I could visually look thinner without actually being thinner. And it's very strange. I was actually able to. I was able to figure out how to contract my core without having my breath held. And it became like an ongoing thing for me that I cultivated. I honed my core as much as I could, to be able to keep it contracted so that it looked smaller than it did so that it didn't get distended when I ate so that it was never looking bloated. And it's something that I knew that I did much older, but I was never really able to place the time and really look at how young was I when that started. And why? Had anybody been calling me fat? Had anybody been mocking me or shaming me? And the reality is I think this is again where the South Asian culture comes in and then specifically my parents there's a very specific, ideal around beauty when it comes to the South Asian community. Right? The fact that I have short hair is she's lost her mind. Like who even knows what this is, it's different now, but particularly, 20 years ago there was a very narrow lens on what beauty looked like. And if you were too thin, it meant that your parents or husband weren't feeding you properly, if you weren't thin enough, it was you're never going to be able to get married or like you've straight up, hit"aunty vibes" way sooner than you were supposed to. And so therefore you're not going to be attractive to anybody or anybody of caliber or worth marrying. And so again, I wasn't really born particularly large. Like I was just your regular average size kid. It wasn't particularly thin. And compared to my like Asian friends, I wasn't like, the smallest on the spectrum, but I wasn't a big child, but it was very clear to me growing up, even before I hit nine, that food was for sustenance and that it was to be enjoyed in extreme moderation. And that if you didn't want to stay moderate about your consumption, then frankly, that was gross. Like the need for more was gross. The fact that you didn't value moderation and discipline so much that you could override the temptation and the need for more, was gross. Now it was never said that it was gross, but I was aware that it was gross, but there was something wrong with me for wanting another piece of cheesecake or for wanting more something or another that tasted good and I wanted more. This idea of more was a problem. And so I started hiding food really early on. It's not that I was hiding food. It was that I was hiding my consumption of food. So if I got access to something I would eat as much of it as I possibly could so that I could just get it out of my system and then not want it anymore after that. And I remember SunChips came out and instead of having, an appropriate amount of SunChips, you'd be like, okay, my, my tummy's kind of full. I ate an entire bag of sun chips and I didn't touch SunChips again, until I was 31. I did the same thing with cheesecake. I was like, this is amazing. Ate half of an entire cheesecake and then could not eat cheesecake again until well into my twenties. It was this cycle that started very early on for me around being disappointed and afraid and kind of grossed out by the fact that I wanted more, but then really wanting it and going for it. And then having to start that yo-yo cycle that I didn't realize I was creating so early on, but then perpetuated throughout the rest of my life. And so when I look at that nine-year-old moment, I'm like, it feels like that was just out of nowhere. But it wasn't. I know that there was this narrative that had been building much earlier on that led to that moment where it was like, okay, if I can't actually change my body, maybe I can fake it and maybe faking it is the same. And I think these moments, these small little moments of me convincing myself that faking it was the same as I don't even want to say making it, but that it was the same as living authentically. I think that was been a theme that carried over in so many different facets, right? It was about my body. It was about school. It was about hair. It was about aesthetics. It bled into so many different areas, but I think the seed was the same, right. There was this expectation around what I'm supposed to look like, what my body composition is supposed to look like. And I felt rather desperate to achieve it even at such a young age.

Michael Bauman: 18:52

And all of those swirling currents kinda came to a head like you said, in your twenties, can you talk about that period? I mean, essentially you had checked all the boxes, the boxes you needed to check at that period of time, can you talk about what those boxes were? And then also just what happened? Like what shifted there in that moment for you?

Sonia Jhas: 19:13

Absolutely. The boxes were pretty straightforward as I alluded to. It was do exceptionally well in school. Get an excellent degree from a very reputable university. Landed a high paying job that would be considered prestigious. Not only land a meaningful job, but nail a title, and nail an amount of money that people would be like, yo, that is not ordinary. Look at her, coming out the gates with something exceptional. And then get ready to have a husband sort of thing, whatever that meant. And was it was a very complicated runway leading up to the sort of breaking of the facade. I spent all of high school trying my best to get into, a computer engineering school doing systems design or a software engineering, meanwhile being fundamentally incapable of understanding physics or chemistry. how I had deluded myself into thinking if I just studied harder later, I'd be able to work it out and get in. I had to come to the hard inflection point where I had to be like, I'm not good at this. I'm doing really bad in school. And my year was actually the year where they were blending grade 12 and 13 together. Mine was the last year where we were going to have grade 13. And so you could, fast-track do it all together and get out when you're early or you could take the full five years and then do great 13 and then go off to university. So the superstar version of me wanted to fast track and get out the very realistic version of Sonia couldn't. And so I took that last year after I abandoned the idea of becoming a computer engineer did courses, I really enjoyed business marketing, all that sort of stuff did exceptionally well got into a great university called Queens university in their top sort of program, which was Queens commerce and was like, oh, okay. High school is behind me. The faking it is behind me. I flocked the nest. I don't live with my parents anymore. Now I can be who I'm really going to be and be successful. Of course, that didn't happen quite so seamlessly either. I found academia extremely challenging. Everybody that had gone to Queens commerce had come from private school. I had come from public school and the gap in the ability to learn was very evident. And so I really struggled through my first year to meet the threshold that I expected for myself at this point in time, it was like I had adopted my parents principles so hard that it wasn't even about them anymore. It was like, this is what I demand. And then spent from second to fourth year, really trying to do everything I could to achieve that excellence. And I did. However I did it through sacrificing my higher university experience. I was laden with anxiety. I, had a couple of friends that were really important to me. I did not go out and socialize. I was not partying. I was not drinking. I was not having any fun. But I made it to the finish line I got on the Dean's list. I landed an incredible executive position at IBM. Funny enough. Hello father? Literally following in those steps and was like, okay. I got into my fourth year and was like, I hate it. I got all the things. And at this time was engaged to a man that was five years older than me. He also ticked all the boxes. We were set to get married in June. And it was like, this is your time. Sonia, you ticked all the boxes. You're getting married in June. Like now is your time to just enjoy the fruits of your labor. And it was in that year, that things started to shift for me, reluctantly. I really started to come into my own. I was having fun. I was feeling relaxed. I was feeling proud of who I was for maybe the first time. And the more that I did, the more, I had a very like haunting aha moment, which was I'm in the wrong relationship. And I'm about to get married was also 22. So, and like big brown, Indian wedding coming, right? Like 800 people, invitations have been sent out. All the clothes have been purchased from India. I've done all the things. And I had this train leaving the station and the closer I got, the more I felt like this is not the real me. And I'm feeling suffocated, I'm feeling trapped. I need to escape. This is like not runaway bride, but also if it could be, how do I make that happen? Talk to my parents about it when I was done university and there was that two month window before I was getting married and they were shocked and devastated and very clearly were like, you made a commitment to a good man. And the ethical obligation here is that you follow through with it. And so at 22, I was like, which choice is going to be the biggest mistake. If I can find a way to get out of the wedding, is it going to be the thing that single handled handedly ostracizes me from the community and as an individual and well, will I be able to look at myself again with integrity of any kind. The alternative was to get married and then do what, right? Like you were like at that point, you're sitting there at 22 being like, no, but the rest of my life is too long. Like I'm only 22. So like I have to die that and to get out of this, one of us has to die. I either have to die or he has to die. Somebody has to die. And it's funny too, when you're hoping that you're going to die or your fiance is going to die, there is a real problem. So long story short, it took sort of two months of heavy soul searching and family exploration and everything. The whole system breaking for my parents to finally come to the conclusion with me that we have to call it. We're not going forth for the wedding. And I'm telling you this because it was like a major breaking point for me, from an identity standpoint, I had essentially been working to build up this image and then I single-handedly chose to burn it all. And it sounds really dramatic right now, because frankly in the last 15 years, things have really changed. Frankly. I'd like to take credit for all brown girls calling out their weddings, like how many brown girls have called off their wedding since me? A lot! But frankly I was legitimately the first that we had heard of. And so everything broke, right? The facade that my parents had tried to maintain of this perfect family with this perfect system and this perfect everything was gone. I had ruined it. My dad broke apart himself. His self image very much shifted his priorities changed. He went into deep depression like clinically. And from there it was a time of rebuilding. So I can say now that it was, single-handedly the best thing that happened to my family because out of it. The evaluation criteria changed. Out of it came this deep desire for authenticity and alignment and figuring out purpose and figuring out meaning. And from there, it was like, okay, I'm working at IBM, I'm working as an executive, but like my radar had turned on. I finally had an internal compass and that internal compass was slowly telling me like you don't like this. Doesn't feel good. You feel like a fraud. You don't like the subject. Turns out you don't care about technology at all. And the things that I liked about the role were things that I'm doing with you right now, which is communicating, expressing, being creative, some of the performance aspects of it But the core competencies I really didn't like. But then again, it was like, who lets go with being an executive at the age of 22. First female in the financial services sector. They made an exception to give me this role. And again, it was like every step of the way that push, pull I'm buying into the narrative because that's the habit. And then there's this other version of Sonia being like that doesn't matter. This is not going to cut it. Your lying. And I think in choosing to figure out how to live more authentically, everything came into question. So it was like, okay, I don't want to do this job, but I don't know what to do. Why don't I get my executive MBA? That'll buy me some time. When is higher education not the answer? So while doing my executive MBA was starting to explore other options for my career. Switch to a smaller technology company where it was more dynamic, a little more cutting edge, all that sort of stuff quickly realized that technology was fundamentally not my thing, no matter which outfit I wore and couldn't figure out what to do next. So at that point, it felt like I don't have any external accolades to chase anymore. I don't know what to go after. I was at this point in time now married to my actual husband and had satisfied the taking marks bought a penthouse, downtown, Toronto, all that sort of stuff. So there, there was nothing left. I was married. I had a home, I had a job, all the things. yet every day I was still waking up being like, I am not happy. And yet I have all the things that I've always wanted and of course corrected. Yeah. So still don't know what I want to do with my career. But technically I'm like making a ton of money. I'm like living a good life. What is the issue? it was then that I decided to go inwards. I was like, you'll figure out the career stuff later. You look in the mirror every morning and you pick apart every part of your body, you are consistently on the hamster wheel of weight loss. You are either eating enough for a village to get it in so that then you can fix yourself by punishing yourself later and going into extreme deprivation. I had been bulimic in university. I was still wavering in and out a bit at the time. And I think for the first time I was ready to call myself out of my own shit. I think for the first time I was actually able to be like, You can do whatever else you want, but until you can find some version of alignment and harmony with you and your body, you're going to continue chasing job after job, when the crux of the issue is your self-worth. And so I went on an accidental year long journey where I was really trying to work on healing, my relationship with my body, healing my body itself, healing my metabolism, trying to focus on building strength instead of my size, trying to understand what it is that I actually liked about fitness, or was it just a mode of punishment And really trying to reconcile the 20 years of Googling I had done on the secrets of fat loss being like, is it is the passion or the thing that I toted as an interest really, just because I hate myself or do I really like this it's just disguised by a whole bunch of garbage? And it very quickly became apparent to me that there is like a real passion here that doesn't have anything to do with how do I become skinny and more around how do I cultivate the most aligned feeling version of myself and fitness and nutrition happened to be important as a part of that equation. And so through that journey, really discovered like a deep interest in helping people in this space. I felt like I'd cracked the code and I wanted to go around to every girl bobbing up and down on an elliptical machine at the gym being like, you're doing it all wrong. Let me help you. And was like, that's also not the way to make friends. So then was working in the corporate world...

Michael Bauman: 30:42

Before we that am, I'm actually really curious. I want to kind of double click on what that deep dive into actually reconnecting with your body and healing your body and yeah. What was involved with that? What was that like? How did you go about doing that?

Sonia Jhas: 30:57

So I think the first thing that happened for me was for the first time, there was no exaggerated timeline, right? Like every other version of yo-yo prior to that moment, Had been driven by I need to look good in this dress. Somebody is getting married. Prom is coming up, something is happening. There was this episodic nature where it was like run hard and fast to the finish line. You're going to get there. And then miraculously, you're going to be able to maintain that and you're just gonna keep it. And then obviously could never keep, it would dig myself back into the hole and then find a way to come back out when the pressure was on.

Michael Bauman: 31:38

Hm.

Sonia Jhas: 31:39

But this time was looking at a runway where I had, I wasn't even really starting at a point where I had eaten myself into oblivion. I was just in the middle of where I could be, where I was not the largest, not the smallest, just neutral. And it was then I think by looking at the timeline and saying, you're going to give yourself like a year. To really be here and see what data you can collect. You look fine. It is fine. It doesn't matter about what you look like, but now you're going to go on a journey where every day you are going to try and collect data from within and externally and see what that's trying to tell you. How much do you need to exercise for your mental health and your physical health? Why do you do 90 minutes of fasted cardio? Do you like it? I mean spoiler alert, no, I didn't like it. No. Now nobody likes it, but it was things like that. It was like around food, trying to understand what is my value system. Do I care about nutrition or do I care about calories? And when do I care about one versus the other. And how do I reconcile that for myself? Because this is what I learned in that year. It's like, when you're not clear on your evaluation criteria and you've got legacy evaluation criteria from your parents and your culture, then you've got like weird hybrid evaluation criteria from society at large. Then you've got your own weird jumbled evaluation criteria based on your limiting beliefs and the stories you tell yourself, you actually drive yourself nuts. Because first of all, we're predispositioned to be super mean to ourselves. Most of us. And second of all, there's almost no way for you to sit down every day and be like, you know what, Sonia, you did good today because there's too much gray area. What are you about? What, what does good mean? How do I know if I did good? Did I do good?'cause I ate celery instead of pizza or did I do good because I ate pizza instead of celery? Or did it have nothing to do with food? Was it a mindset evaluation criteria where it's look at you, you had less narrative before you ate, and then you ate and you stopped when you were full, is that success? And so that's really where the journey started for me that digging deep into what do I want? And wanting to be skinny was no longer a valid answer to me. And I think, as I said, I was finally able to call myself out on these like big outlandish, vague statements that I had been telling myself my entire life and to see that is not a KPI. That is not something that we can like quarter over quarter evaluate our metrics around. Right. And coming from the corporate world was very easy for me to be like, is that how we evaluate success? And so instead of making it so scary and so daunting, and so I need to fix myself, I really made it more of a data collection journey where it was gathering evidence every hour, every day, just to be like does this feel better or worse? Does this feel better or worse? And admittedly, I had never cared about what things felt like. I didn't even know how things felt. I was so busy living from the neck up, and frankly, let's not give me too much credit. This is something I desperately and deeply continue to work out, work on now, because when you've lived your life a certain way it's very difficult, no matter how motivated you are to just de-condition that programming and just have you being like, well now I'm so in touch with my feelings. I'm not. It's something continue to work on a lot on Tuesday on the schedule from nine to 10, but I guess that's the point, right? It's like I went on that journey, the journey of yes. Fitness and nutrition. Yes. Wellness, but really blowing all of that up to say what does wellness mean to me? And then how do I feel? And based on how I feel, I'm going to determine if I'm getting like hotter or colder on this game that I'm playing. Right. And I think dropping the need to race, to the finish line, dropping the preconceived notions of what my body was going to look like. Dropping the narratives around what's considered good or bad based on cliche definitions of health. And really giving myself time to explore what my relationship with food is like what my relationship with exercises, and really giving myself the opportunity to play with it. Like I, I'm making it sound like it was so much fun. It wasn't so much fun, but it also wasn't exam mode, the way everything had been exam mode. Right. And I think what it did was it opened up a connection between my mind and body, right? This is where I think that the mindset and wellness started to uncover itself for me. I had only ever been fitness and nutrition, and I think it was organically becoming so much about mindset, that was all being woven together and the journey continues, right? Like it doesn't ever end. And I think for me, that was one of the biggest aha moments that I had for myself, which is it is never going to be static. I am never going to arrive at the destination. There is no destination that I'm going to be able to hold on to and then be like, well, yeah, did good. There we go. We just unpack here. Because mentally I'm going to be fluid, physically I'm going to be fluid, and I'm going to go through life being like that. And so I think abandoning the idea of the destination being where did the happy people live, both physically and mentally. I think that was the opening. Of a different journey and has been the journey that has continued since then where you're allowed to ebb and flow. And you're allowed to not label yourself when you ebb and flow. I'm not the girl who used to exercise or does exercise. I'm not the girl that wakes up at five o'clock in the morning, or doesn't wake up at five o'clock in the morning. I'm not the girl that anything I'm just existing and trying to stay connected to see what feels the most aligned with who I am at the time. And I think that seems like such a rudimentary statement, like so basic. And yet what I find with everybody that I speak to you and all the clients that I work with and the speaking and all that sort of stuff, it's we don't give ourselves that permission and in failing to give ourselves that permission. Completely box ourselves into a journey that feels totally square peg round hole.

Michael Bauman: 38:47

Yeah. And one of the things you brought up and again, I want to kind of go down that down that river, so to speak, but you talked about really defining what wellness means to you. And so I'm curious what would you say wellness means to you? And this has obviously changed throughout the years, and this is again an ebb and flow, like you talked about, but for you right now, what does wellness mean for you? And I'm going to leave it very open-ended. This can be in any avenue, any area of your life. What that actually looks like

Sonia Jhas: 39:18

I like it. I like the open-endedness and okay. We're going to try and be some version of succinct, although clearly Michael now, there's no part of me that is succinct. Okay. So wellness, I think for me involves mental and physical alignment. And when I say alignment, I mean, when I am eating and moving in a way that feels like it satisfies my evaluation criteria the narrative and the angst subsides when I'm not the narrative and the angst reactivates. And then I can find different ways of convincing myself that it's not the same narrative and it's not the same aches and that it's worse or better, or that it's okay. And we'll fix it later. But if I'm being honest, when I am eating and moving my body in a way that focuses on health, it focuses on fueling my body for the purposes of fitness. And I say fitness, not for the aesthetic purpose, but for the purpose of building my body into a machine that is going to sustain me in a very healthy way until I'm dead. And, something that allows me to feel the most energized the strongest, the most powerful to me that is very important. And I have deduced that having that physical capacity feels extremely necessary for me. I also am very clear about how movement shifts my mental health and how important it is for me to be able to do that. Because without it, I, no matter how much I try to convince myself that it's fine. I feel fine. I just, I don't get to the whether it's the endorphins, whether it's the sense of control, whether it's the sense of progress, I don't specifically know what happens for me mentally. I haven't been like, I think it's all of the above, frankly. But there is a major sort of mindset component that comes along for me with moving my body in a way that feels important. And then on the food side of things, I think for me, it's like when I know that I'm eating for the purposes of supporting that movement when I'm eating for the purposes of allowing myself good nutrition, sound nutrition, but with enough flexibility and fun that I don't feel like I am now training to be a bikini model and eating like a bikini model when I have literally no intention of doing anything other than trying to get stronger and fitter. And, for example, being willing to change my pants size, if that's what it means, because again, the perspective is, am I feeling as healthy fit and strong as I can? And what kind of food do I need to support that? I think for me, that's like a moving target. So. Sometimes that's more carb heavy, sometimes less carb heavy. Sometimes that's, junkier sometimes that's less junkie. And I think abandoning those labels and ensuring that I'm eating in a way that is again, not activating that legacy narrative and an angst and panic and fear. Now I'm the girl that just wants to eat gummy candy all the time type of narrative. I think as long as for me, I can maintain freedom from the narrative. I know that I am operating in balance because the narrative is the habit. The narrative is the habitual legacy state. Then the narrative is the piece that takes away from my joy, from my ability to operate authentically. And that is my barometer. As soon as I'm back in narrative territory and I've gotten better at noticing it, it's this is not wellness anymore. You're doing this for other reasons, something else is happening here. Your evaluation criteria has either shifted or you are not aligning with your evaluation criteria in which case something else is at play. But having that actual peace of mind, I think for me is what true wellness is about. And for example, a very recent scenario that sort of allowed me to once again, call myself out on my own tread was I've got as almost seven-year-old and I've got a two year old and they both wake up at 6, 6 30 in the morning. Doesn't matter what I've been doing the night before, or what time I slept.

Michael Bauman: 43:42

Yeah.

Sonia Jhas: 43:42

And, it's okay, you start your day with them and then you go into your Workday and then you're trying to figure out, well, when do you exercise? They go to bed at eight. So then it's you put them to bed then you exercise? Do you take time out of your workday to exercise? And I was having for a very long time, like a tremendous amount of narrative. I was feeling guilty on the workfront because I would carve out time after I dropped my daughter to school to work out. Then I'd be like starting my work day at 10 and I'd feel exceptionally behind. I just don't have enough hours to get what I need to get done, but I'd be like, well, but you're prioritizing your health. So that's important. And there was this like very like subtle or brewing for a very long time. And in December it had been, we'd just come off of releasing the Ted talk. There was a lot of momentum ending the year and it was like, okay, this Christmas season, I'm just gonna take two weeks and I'm going to be disconnected and I'm not going to be doing my vision board for 2022. I'm just going cut it. I'm going to just live. And it's funny, right? It's when you stop the external and you just allow yourself to be, it became very undeniable to me again, but I'm silently driving myself nuts about my priorities and the fact that I'm playing the victim to my current circumstances, which are like, well, if only the kids would sleep later or if only I could this, or if only I could that, like, how do I, and I was like, look, you got to decide on how you want to feel. And if you want to work out in the morning and you want to feel like you were not losing time in your Workday, and you want to feel like you are being more intentional from a mindset perspective on how you're starting your day. Cause that was the issue for me. Right. It was like, I want to do all these things. I'm getting started with the kids. And then later on I'm like, I didn't even decide how I wanted my day to go. And there was this reactive the whole time. I literally just had to sit back and be like, okay, so then you're waking up at five, that's it? You are going to wake up at five so that you can have your morning routine without the kids, and that's going to be the priority and yes, what are the sacrifices you're going to have to make? You'll have to stop watching Netflix earlier and you'll have to go to bed sometime between nine and 10. And it was really interesting. Cause again, like such a basic statement, such a basic course. Correct. But it was life-changing because again, what was, what is wellness? Right? Wellness is where we come together and we've got that alignment. So the narrative evaporate so that the angst has gone. So that everyday you can be like, yeah, I am living according to my values. And by waking up at five o'clock in the morning, Yeah, it was annoying for the first few days and it became second nature. And eight was the shift that I needed to really be able to look back every day and say, you did good today. You were deliberate. We're intentional. You executed on that intention. And then you go to bed. And I think that to me is the biggest piece of the equation for everybody. It's what do you want wellness to feel like, forget about what you want wellness to look like, but what do you want it to feel like? And wanting it to feel like you're the type of person who doesn't want to eat junk food is not what you want it to feel like. Right? Wishing you had better willpower is not what you want it to feel like. You want it to feel like your inner and your outer are in balance and reflecting the version of person that you want to be. And then the question is, what choices are you going to make to actually make that happen so that you can be living in alignment and so basic and yet so challenging because how often are we overriding how we feel? How often are we telling ourselves stories about who we are, who we were, who we could be that are driving our behaviors and we're in autopilot mode and we are racing. I don't know where, but we're all racing. We're all racing in, we're chasing. And so I think for everybody and for all the clients that I work with, it's yeah, we'll get to the fitness and nutrition stuff later. We'll go there obviously, frankly. If I'm being honest, that's the easy part. Cause it's just science and science is like relatively black and white, but unlike a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. It's the mindset piece. That's either going to make the journey exceptionally painful or it's going to be one that opens up the potential for your life. And so for me, in going on that wellness journey, it was the stage that was set for me, quitting my job, defining who I want to be and allowing that to be malleable and then taking brave, bold action in the direction of what do I want to feel like? And that journey continues. As I said,

Michael Bauman: 48:59

Yeah, It's really funny that you brought up that example because that's almost exactly the same thing for BI the same, similar aged kids, five and two, and they get up every day at six o'clock and I was doing the same thing. Like I'm just like, where do I fit in my workout? And how's this going to, how's this going to work? And for me, it's actually kind of interesting. I've been experimenting. It's like what you're talking about. You have this data thing experimenting with actually shifting my workout and my routine based on whether it's summer or winter. So I absolutely hate getting up in the morning. Like I just love sleeping. It's just wonderful. And I have such a hard time getting up in the winter. And so what I'm doing now is I'm actually in the summer when it's like bright at 5:00 AM, I'm getting up early.

Sonia Jhas: 49:45

It's

Michael Bauman: 49:45

And I'll work out before my kids get up. And then in the winter I'm actually going, it's okay to get up, an hour later and figure out my workout routine around that. And then even in terms of I dropped my kids off at school and then I come back and I'm going like, oh, I'm missing my meditation time, but you know, cause my baby girl is two years old and she comes running in and she wants me to hold her and play or whatever. And then you're just like, what is meditation for? It is for being present in the moment, especially with the people that you have. And I'm like, What, if

Sonia Jhas: 50:17

what greater exercise, what what greater exercise than trying to be present with a toddler?

Michael Bauman: 50:22

Right. It's What if I was actually just present

Sonia Jhas: 50:23

with my baby girl? What is more meditation than A 100%! but see this is exactly it, right? Like the willingness to drop the labels to drop the cliches, to be able to sit back and be like, you know what for example, even for me, it was like, okay, like I know meditation is supposed to be a great part of what it is that I do, and I'm going to meditate. And I now want to conquer meditating so that I can be the meditators so that I can be like an excellent meditator. Then people would be like, wow, look at her. She's like an excellent meditator who, first of all, who, and second of all, like what. But it's this need, right? Not only am I going to do it, but I'm going to conquer the shit out of it. And then I got to a point where I was like, I don't like meditating it don't I, maybe one day will shift, but I don't like it now. What do I do? What could be some thing that, to me could allow me to develop a little bit more clarity, a little bit more presence, a little bit more mindfulness breath work. So instead of forcing myself to meditate, I was like, all right, until it stops feeling good, you're going to do breath work instead. And it's again, such a simple solution, just sleep in the winter and figure it out and then play with your daughter. And maybe it accomplishes the same thing, but it's these rigid structures and labels and things that we do to ourselves that make, I think things really unnecessarily painful and we want to blame other people. Right. We want to blame our circumstances, our environment, the kids, the everything. And you're like, I mean, you really get to choose either. You can be like, you know what? There is no angst because now it's not my time. And my only role is to be present and participate and to do what feels good with the kids. Or if it's important to you, you just shift the schedule in the system. And I love in your case that you're allowing yourself to play with your circadian rhythm that way, and that you're allowing yourself to ebb and flow even seasonally, because hello, like that is a major factor, right? Like it is.

Michael Bauman: 52:25

The reason why animals hibernate.

Sonia Jhas: 52:27

That's exactly it, right. That is exactly it. And it's funny. Actually, what I have found is that, that I actually experienced the opposite. So in winter I find that my need to wake up at five in the morning and really be more anchored and intentional feels much stronger because I think I'm heavily predisposed to seasonal affective disorder. I actually think that I don't realize how hard I'm working in the winter to try and be like a normal pleasant human being until the sun starts to come out again and the days get longer. And I'm like, oh, so I'm not actually miserable. My life does not actually suck. I'm actually kind of happy who knew. Whereas in the summer I find that I'm more naturally feeling like myself without needing that deliberate kickstart to my day that I find myself being more fluid in the spring and summer than I am in the winter. And so I think these are two really interesting examples of how the seasonality makes a huge difference now, which way it goes, who cares, but allowing yourself that opportunity is I think the piece that again makes us about wellness. That is going to be lifelong. That can mold and shift and adapt versus now you're the guy that wakes up at five o'clock in the morning. And so therefore you must, and if you're not, well, then you're a failure. And so then like, why are you living here?

Michael Bauman: 53:47

Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, when you study systems, like any like organism and stuff, there are dynamic systems. Like we have just like thousands of processes that are maintaining homeostasis in our body. And it's just like adapting to the changing environment. And we just try to put this rigid, like miracle morning and there's nothing wrong with it. Those things are beneficial, but what you need to do is you need to take them and you need to actually experiment with them in your life. And like you talk about actually paying attention to that feeling of how your day is going. Like I used to, once I finished my work and then I'd be walking to pick up my kid at school and I'm, checking financial news or, trying to listen to something. And I just felt tense when I picked up my kid. And so now I just like totally stopped doing that. Exactly. Like I just walked and I actually just enjoyed the 10 minute walk to pick up my kid to school. But what it's, what you're talking about as well, paying attention to how that change in your routine makes your day to day feel. Does it feel more stressful and overwhelmed or does he actually feel like, oh, I'm okay. Or maybe I'm like positive. I have more energy, really tuning into that I think is really important. Like you're talking about.

Sonia Jhas: 54:57

Yes, absolutely. And it's an obvious thing to say, but I really think that we don't collect data. Right. We are trying to hypothesize and conclude at all times, right? We skipped the whole experiment phase because we're like, well, that's just gross. We need the answers now and we need to be defined and we need to be successful and we need to be this. We skipped the experiment part where you're going to collect the information you need so that you can make the decisions you need to make so that you can get to the conclusion that you want. And so I think it's a pretty powerful, but totally basic thing that I'm suggesting, which is maybe just explore how you feel and check out what changes could make you feel differently and then play around with those and see how those feel, and then pivot again and stop telling people about your pivots so that you feel this pressure to label yourself as the person who does XYZ. Oh, first she was spinning. Now she's about yoga and now she's about now she's doing Dukan and now she's doing keto. You don't need the false narratives that are coming externally at you. They usually aren't, but we feel like they are right. We feel like we're being judged at all times, whether we are our aren't and kind of just collect the data and keep it within and figure it out. This does not need to go on social media is the point. If you don't want it to

Michael Bauman: 56:35

Let's talk about that a little bit, because I'm, I know that's something that you talk about a lot. I mean, you have a huge social media following and it's, really important to you and there's tremendous benefits. Like you can help people and things like that. But I'm curious as what that has been for you in terms of, and you talked about it in, in your Ted talk about that, like that balance between presenting an image, especially in the health and fitness arena, right? Like it's you have to kind of present, oh, I have it together. Right. And then if you don't like, how do I present that? I'm curious, what does that look like? What are the questions and stuff you ask even before you post on social media? And if you're not all put together, what does that look like for you? In terms of how you present that.

Sonia Jhas: 57:16

Yeah, I think I really struggled with this quite a bit, to be honest in the first few years of being active on social media, because to your point, it felt like there was an image that needed to be upheld and this desire to be inspirational and aspirational and believing that looked a certain way. And then I had my first child and the amazing what that'll do to you, right? Some of these other things really starts to shift. And, it was really when I was dealing with my second round of fertility treatments to have my second kid, the first time I went through it, covertly didn't say anything on social media entered on the scene. It was like surprise! I'm pregnant! And was like amazing! Done. The second time around was when I was like having a tough time because it was like a year to about 14 months, I think. And that is a long time to present yourself in a way that is not even within the realm of what you're going through. I was worried about weight gain because of the hormone treatments I was spending every morning at the fertility clinic, getting blood work done. I was going through all the emotional ups and downs of IVF, not working failed cycles, all that sort of stuff. And I got to the point where I was like, yo, I either got to go. Like I just have to shut it down completely and be like, I'll be back. Or I won't, or I have to tell people that this is what's happening and that I'm really struggling. And that I'm not trying to make this like a fertility space now, but just so that, I am in a journey that is not the journey I'm showing you. And there's a lot of hardship that's coming along with it. And I think that to me, and seeing the response around that felt so meaningful because. I think it just allowed me to, again, drop the narrative, the angst and the fear and all of that stuff that I was carrying and to just be like, oh my God, I can just be, and then to allow myself to take a break from social media. I took four or five hiatuses for a week. And again, that fear and that panic around I'm going to lose my whole following. Nothing happened. It was fine. And it allowed me to come back with thoughts and with insights and with feelings to share. And, then I had my second kid, then it was the pandemic. Everything has continued on from there. I think to me when it comes to posting, of course, there's the generic, engagement boosting stuff that will work or the pieces of the formula that you've woven in at this point in time that they're benign, but they're expected. Fine. But I think the rest of it to me now comes down to do I have anything to say about my current existence that is meaningful or helpful or in any way, shape or form worth people knowing about, and if so, how can I share that? And if not, okay, well then try to post things that don't feel inauthentic to where you're at right now. And what I find is that two things, one, my social media is always a cycle behind where I'm actually at. So I'm no longer trying to package and process at the same time, I'm processing living, and then bringing them along the way just slightly after. And I think the pressure around that has greatly reduced because it's no longer like minute, 10 minute. It's what are you thinking? What are you feeling what's happening in your business? How's it all happening? And then be like, okay, let me look quickly figure that out. I'm gonna give them thoughts, give them solutions, give them answers. Are they feeling the same way? It felt like, how do I move that quickly? How do I be a human being who's being and doing, and then also packaging in and delivering. Right. So, so I think allowing myself that buffer, I think it's really helped. It's also allowed me to figure out like, well, what do I really want to say about the thing that I was just going through? Is it even worth talking about it is always worth talking about like the, how to talk about it and what am I really taking away from that experience is really the thing that I need to gain clarity on. So there's that piece of it. And then the second piece of it is this is gonna sound so weird, but I don't actually consume social media anymore. I have a team and I'm not posting myself. I'm not sharing myself and I'm also not lurking and scrolling myself. I mean, I do occasionally I'd say maybe there's like a total of five minutes in a day for 10 minutes in a day where I'm like, okay, well what went on today? But I'm barely a consumer of social media anymore. The social media content that I do consume is all stuff that I want to engage with. That makes me feel good and feel better about life and my journey. And then I don't actually. I don't post, I don't check the likes. I will engage with the comments so that they're organic and authentic, but I don't, I'm not there anymore. And that was very candidly something I felt like I needed to do to be able to protect my peace. I just did not see a way for me to stay in the vortex like that, and still feel healthy, aligned safe. And it has made a huge difference because by being at arms length with social media, I'm now able to participate in it in a way that I'm being driven solely by what feels real to me versus the directions I'm being pulled in by living in that space. Right. Because then you're like, oh, but then she posted this, I got her ads or this, oh my God. This pores on my face, like it's really hard to keep. The version of yourself that you hold true close to yourself when you are in the vortex. And so I think for me, that has been a major shift and I don't intend to change it.

Michael Bauman: 1:03:23

Yeah, I really appreciate that. Those are both very important things. A lot of times it carries more weight you've actually done the processing first, and then you're going, I'm presenting something that I've worked through internally myself,

Sonia Jhas: 1:03:39

Yeah. Or, if it's something that's going on for a long time, or it's a phase it's I am going through it. And here's what I'm feeling and thinking right now. I don't know where this is going. It's going to be a bit so have some patients, but I think being honest about not having the answers I think is also really liberating. And so depends on what the ebb and flow is. But if it's a longer phase, it's kind of like this sucks. I'm just letting you know what sucks. I'll probably have something meaningful to about it not sucking later, but right now it just sucks. It was a moment of connection and community and it made me feel less alone and it made you feel less alone. And it's interesting, right? Cause it's like with social media, it's we're more connected than ever! And then you're like, we're more alone than ever. And I think finding that balance for yourself is so important. Otherwise you could just live your real life, not the fake one. And wouldn't that be so easy, right?

Michael Bauman: 1:04:29

Yes, absolutely. I think that's actually just perfect spot to wrap it up. Thank you.

Sonia Jhas: 1:04:35

A final takeaway is just live your real life

Michael Bauman: 1:04:39

But for real though, like that is, I mean, that's what you do. And that's the process of living, we get caught up in all of these other things that we think are important. And then when you give yourself space, you're just like, man, that stuff doesn't really matter. Or you can use it very intentionally as a tool to accomplish what a tool should be doing. You want to build a house while you use, get whatever tools you need to build a house and you build a house. But going in with an intention is important. And then it does give you space to actually be there with your family and live the life that you want to live. And I think like you said it's simple, but it's a very, that common sense, not being common practice. Like very few people actually are here like right now. And it's so important. So important.

Sonia Jhas: 1:05:27

It's so important. It is. And I think if you can learn to be here, whether it's about your body, whether it's about success, whether it's about social media follow the same thing, right? Like where we're really honing this skill across the various facets of our lives. And my realization has been that people really believe that fitness and nutrition or health and wellness, like it's its own tangent. It operates over here, but then the rest of it is part of this like cohesive bucket. It's literally all the same. It's all the same. It's the same perfectionism, same limiting beliefs, same lack of clarity on values that applies to your job. It applies to your body. It applies to your mental health. It's the same. So if we can, as you said, come back to being present and be open to digging through the noise and experimenting to collect the data. Then not only will your body change, but so will your entire life. And then you'll probably call up a wedding and you'll quit a job or three, and you'll be like all the changes that were needed. So there's hope. There is hope.

Michael Bauman: 1:06:38

Well, I appreciate this conversation. It was fun.

Sonia Jhas: 1:06:42

Thank you, Michael. It was such a pleasure being here. I appreciate it so much. And we're going to have to dig more into your adventures next time, because in our prelude, I certainly did not get.

Michael Bauman: 1:06:53

Awesome. I appreciate it. I'll put up all the links to your socials and things when I, what I posted, but I really appreciate your time and insight.

Sonia Jhas: 1:07:01

Thanks, Michael. I appreciate it. Have a great day.

1:07:03

Before you go, have you gotten a copy of Peak Performance Mindset Tools for Entrepreneurs yet? So during the book launch, you can get the ebook version for 99 cents. I really appreciate the support! Again, you can click on the link in the show notes or type Peak Performance Mindset Tools for Entrepreneurs into Amazon. Again, I cannot thank you guys enough for helping me become an Amazon bestselling author. You are amazing. Thank you so much for helping me engineer my success. I really appreciate it.