S7E11: Dr. Rob Bell, Mental Toughness, Falling off an 80 Foot Cliff, Parenting Resilient, Successful Kids...

Dr. Rob Bell fell off an 80-foot cliff and it changed his life...

Dr. Rob Bell is a sport psychology coach, author, and speaker. He has spoken to the NSCA, PGA, NFL, Marriott, and Walgreens and has written seven books on Mental Toughness. 

Rob has worked with three different winners on the PGA Tour. In addition, he has served as the mental coach for the University of Notre Dame, Indy Eleven, an Indy 500 champion, Olympian medalists, and more.

He’s an ironman, completed several ultra-marathons and a 100-mile trail run. 

 And has been featured on ESPN, The Golf Channel, Runner’s World, NY Times, and Stack Magazine.

In this episode, Dr. Rob Bell
1. Defines mental toughness - (it's not what you think)
2. Explains how to train mental toughness to perform at elite levels
3. How to come back stronger after a setback
4. How to parent resilient, successful kids.

Check out his website at
drrobbell.com 

Transcript

Rob Bell: 0:00

One night we were partying near this cliff, and I ended up walking off a 80 foot cliff. You know, I didn't jump, I wasn't pushed, I just had no idea where I was, you have to crane me up out of it and take me to the hospital. But I was alive man, and I was still in a lot of pain, but I could move. I mean that moment right there, that was a hinge moment.

Michael Bauman: 0:24

How do we truly feel like a success in every area of our lives? How do we feel enough and know that we are not alone? Join me as I interview some of the top leaders and experts in the world, from Broadway directors to multimillionaire, CEOs, neuroscientists, and more to look behind the curtain of success and examine not only the achievements, but also the fears. The. The loneliness and how we can navigate through that to create the incredible life we actually want to live. Welcome to Success Engineering. So welcome back to Success Engineering. I'm your host, Michael Bauman it's my pleasure to have Dr. Rob Bell on. He's a sports psychology coach. He's an author. He's a speaker, so he's spoken the NSCA, PGA, NFL, Marriott, Walgreens. He's written seven books on mental toughness. Writing. Another one right now. We'll get into that. So his seventh book is called Puke and Rally. It's not about the setback, it's about the comeback. And he's worked with three different winners of the P G A tour. He's served as a mental coach for University of Notre Dame, Indy 11, you know, Indy 500 champions, Olympic medalists. He's done tons of things and he walks the walk or runs the runs, so to speak. He's done Ironmans Ultras, a hundred Mile Trail runs, and then he is the host of the podcast called 15 Minutes of Mental Toughness. So he interviews experts all over the board on mental health, mental toughness, things like that, featured on E S P N, golf Channel Runners World. I could just go on and on, but it's a pleasure to have you here on this show. I'm looking forward to this conversation.

Rob Bell: 2:02

Absolutely, man. Thanks so much for the intro, man. I appreciate

Michael Bauman: 2:04

Yeah, there you go. Thanks for doing what you do. So, so we're

Rob Bell: 2:09

Well, I mean, there, there's sometimes like you get on a podcast and they're like, tell us about yourself. I really don't know what to

Michael Bauman: 2:14

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Rob Bell: 2:15

it's a lot better. It's not better having you do it.

Michael Bauman: 2:17

I packaged it up. Put a little bow on it. We sorted it out. All right. Now we'll get to the meat and potatoes. So I literally wanna dive in and it's more so like fall in. We want to start with that moment for you. So we're gonna, we're gonna start with the falling off of an 80 foot cliff. And you can kind of give the backstory around that and how that ended up getting in you into sports psychology.

Rob Bell: 2:39

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, sports was my entire life. Baseball, soccer is really what I. Love the most, you know, but even baseball and you know, I went to a division two school in West Virginia with the hopes of playing. You know, when I get there, like my 85 mile hour fast ball was just kind of like average. And it was really interesting because probably about like my junior, senior year, high school, I started to get off the tracks. I mean, I started drinking a lot, just started partying and having a good time. It was really just when I got to. Now I can have partying and no accountability and like, what could possibly go wrong. And I was always one of those people, man, that was, you know, if there was trouble, like I was gonna find it. And so it was one night we were partying near this cliff, and near this cliff was kind of like this bridge. And you know, I don't know why we're parting there, but I mean, you know, I always tell. Depending on my audience, nothing good happens after midnight, so this was obviously after midnight and just had no idea where I was. I ended up walking off a 80 foot cliff. You know, I didn't jump, I wasn't pushed, I just had no idea where I was, and I'm laying I'm conscious during the whole time I'm laying at like to the bottom of this crevasse. You have to crane me up out of it and take me to the hospital where my mom is a nurse. And, you know, I mean, I fractured my back, broke my arm. Big gaping head wound, you know, but I was alive man, and I was still, you know, in a lot of pain, but I could move. And I mean that moment right there, that was a hinge moment because baseball then was over and that was it. And that was that was really troublesome to me cuz it, you know, in my mind, like my 85 men fast ball is gonna get me to major leagues. I just had, you know, the emotional pain stuck around a lot longer than any one of those broken bones. And I still have a lot of like, feeling loss like in my lower back. But the emotional scars from messing up like that, you know, cuz then you have to face people in terms of like, you know, what were you doing? You know, I was so glad you're alive, but like, I could be so dumb, you know? And if, you know, if it wasn't for that, I probably wouldn't have taken that psychology class and that psychology class is what made all the difference in my life. Cause I knew then at that point, taking that class I can merge sports and psychology. I had no idea how I was gonna do it, but I was like, I want, that's what I want to do. Cuz I was so entranced in everything about the mind and it was around that time as well that. You know, the Dan and Dave commercials for the Olympics were going on and you can just kind of YouTube'em and anybody watching. And I started following Dan O'Brien and you know, Dan and Dave, two Olympians who was gonna compete for the gold medal for the us. And it was at this time I started, you know, it makes you root for one. It was a Reebok commercials and it made you root for one. So I started rooting for Dan O'Brien. Well, Dan O'Brien gets to Olympic trials and he's on world record pace, so he is not even at the Olympics. But he is on world record pace and he comes up again up on the pole vault and he misses three times. So he no heights. So he goes from first to last, doesn't even make the team. And I cut out that article from the Washington Post and followed him looking at it right now. And I actually ran into him probably about 10 years ago and showed it to him. He got a big kick out of it cuz I, we, I said, look, this was a hinge moment for both of us, like, your failure at Olympic trials is why I got into this field, because I was just blown away that, what do you mean the best in the world? Don't make it like that was just foreign to me. I'm like, I'm watching this guy on all these commercials, obviously gonna make, you know, the Olympics. He doesn't make it. And then I started following his career and then he started to see somebody who would help him out with his routines. You know, breathing, staying focused, the confidence, letting go of. And it was that point, I was like, this is what I want to do. And it all gets back to, you know, falling off a cliff, man. So,

Michael Bauman: 6:37

That'll do it for you. Change. Change your life. But don't try this at home. Right?

Rob Bell: 6:43

yeah.

Michael Bauman: 6:44

other ways to change your life.

Rob Bell: 6:46

Yeah, you know, the one thing Michael that I'll share, man, it's like, I was really given a gift of perspective and that was the part that I really held onto, you know, because when you are met face-to-face, kind of with your own mortality however we think about Lance Armstrong, he still had an epic quote. He said, if you ever get a second chance in life, you have to go all the way. And then when I got a second chance, you know, getting into grad school, like I wasn't gonna blow it. And so I felt like the gratitude perspective that I got from that was actually a gift.

Michael Bauman: 7:14

Absolutely. And that's a, you know, phenomenal, you know, reframe around that situation. And before we get into, you know, all the stuff on mental toughness, I do want to talk about that loss of I identity. And this is a huge theme for athletes, whether they're, You know, finish at high school, finishing college, finish professional sports, like when they have so much of their identity tied around playing a sport. And also like executives as well, like, you know, they have their worth tied up in their job and, you know, whatever it is, and they lose that. How do you go about basically separating your identity from. What you do in sports in life, and I know this is basically the foundation, the pillar on what you build everything else on. But I, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Rob Bell: 7:59

well, I think. I have a fairly good answer for it. You know, how I dealt with it back then was not well, you know, I mean I, because you have the emotional scarring and, the identity piece. I mean, I delved into drinking and partying. It just even more so, you know, cuz I needed to cover up that pain, you know, if I couldn't play ball in the field, have to play ball off the field and whatever that meant. I think that's what, you know, drugs and alcohol help a lot of people through that. It's not the best. But it gets'em through it, you know? And obviously that's the wrong way to self-medicate, but but that's why so many people do it because of that emotional damage. It's interesting you bring that up because I've made it a point to talk to a couple of people, entrepreneurs that sold their businesses and they both sold'em for millions of dollars. And ask them the question, are you happier? That you don't have the responsibility, the pressure, or were you happier like during the grind when you were getting after it. And again, small sample size, right? But both of them said they were happier when they had the business, when they were still grinding because that identity piece, when they sold, the business, stopped. And they had to, and this is where I'll get like into the answer in the question. They had to find another outlet and the part that I think is important is it's about stepping into the next, stepping into the next part of your life. Sounds easy, but it constantly have to keep reinventing yourself trying new things because what you're doing, at some point it's going to end and what's stepping into the next look like for you on the next chapter? And if we stay stuck, if we never keep reinventing ourselves, finding new avenues, you know, if it's gonna be new clients new tools, new skills. If we're not constantly getting better, then stepping in the next gets a whole lot harder cuz we're still gonna be holding on to that identity. And I think we need to do it like when we're healthy and, you know, well adjusted right now. You don't wanna wait until your career's done. Like with professional athletes, right? E even those that. Contemplating what retirement was gonna look like, did a whole lot better. You know, research showed than those that waited until their career was over in order to make that shift. And I think, like I always, Bob Dylan was one of my favorite artists, right? Love Bob Dylan. And Bob Dylan. If you follow him, like all his music was different, you know, I mean, this was a guy who was a folk singer. And then he started playing electric guitar and his fans booed him. You know, I mean, you know, Bob Dylan fans were booing them because they didn't want him going electric. Like, what was that?

Michael Bauman: 10:45

Right.

Rob Bell: 10:46

And he constantly kept reinventing himself. And that's why, you know, he's still around even today. Because that's the point about constantly reinventing yourself. And I mean, you look at anybody, any great artist that you can see their work, they're always getting better because they're reinventing themselves. That's the way I kind of look at it. Being able to step in the next, have to keep reinventing ourselves, helps us with that transition.

Michael Bauman: 11:08

Yeah, and that's really important. I had mark Verstegen, the NFL performance director and founder of EXOS on the podcast, and he talked about that, how 30% of athletes, you know, professional athletes from the N F L when they retire, they struggle with. Three main things. One is like financial ruin, which is crazy. The other one is just relational, like distress, you know, whatever that is. Like, you know, domestic abuse or just like relational conflict, divorce, that kind of thing. Or struggling with addiction and, because a lot of it is, That just loss of everything that, you know, that they're self worth and stuff was built around. So I appreciate you talking about that. And it's that, you know, planning in advance for these kind of things. And that's what, you know, essentially mental toughness is, it's how can you plan it in advance so that you can be tough to handle these situations. So let's get into that a little bit and talk to us. You know, what is mental toughness? What isn't mental toughness? So kind of the myths around it. And then talk about those main components of it, and then we'll get into the nitty gritty of like how we can actually, you know, build each of those in our lives.

Rob Bell: 12:17

Well, I always like, let's start with what it isn't. That's okay. I mean, mental toughness. I think when we say it gets a bad edge because people say mental toughness. They think a couple things. One, Flipping huge tires, like it's all physical exertion, you know, it's all physical toughness. And the other myth or misconception of mental toughness is it's doing it on your own, right? Pulling up your bootstraps, just getting it done. And I really look at that as kind of like the opposite of mental toughest. I think a lot of times it's who are you surrounding yourself with? So when you are gonna need picked up, who is it that's there to. And I think a lot of times, man it's just being able to create that network of people that are around you that you know, you help them out, but they're gonna help you out when you're gonna need it as well. And that's the part I look at is no one gets there alone. And that's a huge part I think of the mental game as well. So I always try putting those out there in terms of like, look, mental toughness isn't now, are there physical pieces that go to it? Sure. But that's just one component of like mental toughness. Jim Lair defined it, and I always still use his, because there's a lot of academics that will throw out a lot of definitions, mental toughness. But his definition was how you deal, handle and cope with adversity. And that's pretty much what it is. So adversity has to be present in order for mental toughness to come out. So adversity reveals one's level of mental toughness, but adversity also build. Mental toughness, depending on the situation, if there's a coach there, you know, it just doesn't build it by itself. Like sports doesn't teach us anything by itself. It teaches whatever we want to teach. And that's kind of the same thing with like mental toughness. So it's really, it's how we deal, handle and cope with the adversity, the setbacks, and the struggle in life. And that's basically all it is. All the other skills go into how we navigate. And a lot of times in it, it's, I'm putting this in the next book cuz it's just how we adjust, you know, how well you adjust, how well do you adapt, how well can you move on? And kind of we're talking about right, stepping to the next.

Michael Bauman: 14:27

Yeah. I had another guest that I had on Craig Weller. He trains Elite Special Forces. He was a sp a special force operator and now he trains him to blast this election test. But what I thought was interesting is he talks about how he uses the exact same frameworks as far as, you know, stress response, like fear inoculation, all of those kind of things, segmentation com, compartmentalization, whatever they use to get through these incredibly challenging things physically. He has a newborn baby and he talks about how he used that same thing. In terms of his response to his wife when he's tired, when he's at the end of the rope. And I think that's an overlooked aspect like you're talking about. So I really appreciate you talking about that aspect of it. It's going like, how do you respond in any level of adversity, not just a physical one, but like when you're tired and your kids you know, are keeping you up at night and you know you're at the end of the rope, do you still respond positively from that?

Rob Bell: 15:24

No, I don't. No.

Michael Bauman: 15:26

No I'm the same, right? Like literally last night my son woke me up three times in the middle of the night and I'm like, this is crazy. Right? And so that's another interesting thing to look at. At what point. Along that spectrum. Do I lose it? Do I not show up how I want to show up? Right. And that's where you go, oh, if we're thinking of it from a tough knit perspective or exercise perspective, you go, I can't lift that weight yet, but I can train to get there. You know, so, so

Rob Bell: 15:56

there, there's, and there's always triggers, right? Like one for me is like when I do, when I get tired,

Michael Bauman: 16:01

yes.

Rob Bell: 16:01

and when it's late at night, like again, I've been up, you know, since 4 35 in the morning and I try communicating that like with my wife and kids, like, when it's time for bed, I'm gonna be out. Can't help me with any new information because you're not gonna like the response. So they have gotten so much better at that, you know, cuz we, we've programmed a house that way. But I think the triggers are like, when we're hungry, angry, lonely, or tired, you know, those. Triggers, at least for me, one of those are going on. If I'm not showing up, like you said, the way that I want to,

Michael Bauman: 16:33

Talk to us. I mean, it's a perfect segue. Talk to us about how you develop the internal awareness of basically like what is actually going on with yourself, whether that's emotions, whether that's physiology. How do you go about training that as a skill?

Rob Bell: 16:48

so here's the tough part, right, is because the mind has one job, and I'm not saying anything you don't already know, but it's just to keep you safe. And that's who we're always competing against, is that own mind. So the mind, for instance, at five o'clock in the morning that says, get up, your mind's gonna be like, boy, it's really comfortable in this bed. Why don't we just stay in bed? So that's who you're competing against. So try playing a one-on-one basketball with somebody who already knows what you're gonna do before you do it. Like it's tough to beat that opponent, but that's who you're competing. Hence the part what, why it gets so difficult is because it's just about being aware of like, what are gonna be the triggers, you know, and what are the triggers and what are the emotions that are gonna come into it? Because that's the part where it's mostly just gets emotion based. When emotions start, you know, creating commotion in the mind. That's gonna be like the huge trigger. And the tough part is it's only when that hits. Are we able to, you know, work on the response? Then you gotta be able to look at it and say, all right, did I respond well in that situation? What can I do different next time? And then that's how I look at like the mental muscle getting built that way.

Michael Bauman: 18:02

Yeah, talk to us cuz these are, you know, pretty foundational pillars of what you do. So talk to us about that. Talk to us about the ability to focus. And the ability to refocus. And this is what distinguishes like high performers in any area, like their ability to focus and then if they get off track, their ability to refocus focus. So talk to us about that and again, talk to us about how we can go about when we do have those adversities, making sure we are using that to train those.

Rob Bell: 18:31

And that's the key, right, is so it's like, What's gonna be the adversity that we're gonna face? Because even talking with you, if I look at, all right, well, is Rob mentally tough? Right? Well, in some areas, yes. In some areas, no. So what area am I mentally tough at? What? And I would look at it. Look, the main skill that I have is the perseverance, right? The never give up. That's basically. I mean, be honest, right? That's basically it, man. So now that goes a long way. But if you look at like the races, like Iron Mans and, you know, a hundred miles, well, it's really based on obviously your preparation, but not giving up. Look, if you don't give up, are you gonna finish the race? And you know, those are really like, and that's a huge part of it, but then it goes into kind of what you're talking about, right? Like the focus. When does Rob become like self-conscious in terms of, you know, monitoring myself, you know, it's not gonna be when I'm speaking, but it's gonna be in a situation where, hey, maybe I'm not that comfortable in. Right. Maybe if it's like working with a new team or something like that. So the focus piece is, I think we have to be just a little bit more excited than nervous. And it's being able to train our mind, I think in every kind of situation that this is something good can happen here. If we look for the opportunity, our mind wants to say something bad could happen here. This is a threat. And now we're more nervous than we are excited. So all we need to be is just a little bit more excited than nervous. Like it's the same thing, like all you need to be is just a little bit more brave than scared. That's it. Just a little. And then you're gonna be taking the steps. And that's the way I kind of look at focus and be able to train that muscle. It's a lot of different ways to do it, but I always think that's key, man, is to be able to make sure you're approaching the situation's excited. Hey, this is an opportunity, something good could happen. And that's why I have the feelings that I have. And then the other part, I mean, refocus. You know, how do you let go of mistakes? Move on. See, that's the skill that Rob is not good at, you know? Why? Well, because, you know, even as a kid, I mean, there was a perfectionism that came into mind and it wasn't okay to make mistakes, you know? And and so that part, I do get better at it, but I'm not, like, it's not a strength of mine. You know what I mean? I really have to be aware of when. And that's why I wrote puke and rallies so much, man, was because I really believe, look, it's not about the setback, it's gonna be about the comeback. How do we respond? In those situations. So we're cool, calm, and collected. Because I look at anybody, man, anybody can take the the helm and the seas are calm, right? But it's the stormy seas. That's what really makes the good sailors and refocus being able to move on, let go of mistakes. None of us get taught that. At least I didn't, you know? And that's where I'll see with a lot of athletes today, entrepreneurs, the fact that we make mistakes. You know, we hide from that stuff. And whether or not we hide people talk about being vulnerable. Well that's the part about, you have to have that group of people around you that you can be vulnerable with. Cuz you don't, I mean, you don't need to be posting that on all social media, how you failed. Now there's gonna be a lot of, you know, sympathy and failure notes from that stuff, but, you know, that's just a whole nother. And I, I just look at it as like, the focus in terms of being a little bit more excited, the nervous and the refocus part of how do we let it go, move on. What they never, ever told me, maybe they told you, but the whole quote about, you fall down seven, you get up eight, like that Epic saying, right? Like, that was really nice. What they never told you or never told, Was that when you fall down for the fourth and fifth time, you think about the second and third time that you fell down and how bad that hurts because it brings back all the flood of emotions of when you failed before. And that's the part that they failed to tell us about, that when you failed, it's gonna bring back all the past failures that you had that are no longer true or real, but it affects then our identity and once it starts to affect your identity. You can't let you know. Wins go to your head, but you can't let losses go to your heart. That's the whole point, is you gotta protect that identity and know who you are outside of and back to our original point, right outside of your performance and what it is that you do.

Michael Bauman: 23:09

Yeah, so many good points there. Again, very similar to Craig Weller. He talked about the exact same thing, just reframing nervousness as excitement. Like physiologically, your body's doing the same thing. Your heart rate increases, you know, your blood pressure increases. You know, all your blood's pumped your muscles. Whether you're excited or you're nervous, it's the same, you know, str fear or stress response, but you get to frame it and he talks about that framing even in terms of, is stress debilitating for you? Like a debilitating stress mindset or a challenging stress mindset? Does stress your response to that produce the response you need to meet the challenge? So I love what you were saying. About that goes directly along, along with what he was saying as well. So I'm curious, you know, for you, like, you do the sports stuff, you coach executives and things like that. I'm curious, like if somebody, like an executive comes to you and says, I want to develop my mental toughness, where do you start with that? Like, do you have a specific assessment process? Is there a framework? What does that look like?

Rob Bell: 24:16

Well, a lot of it's my interviewing because if it's gonna be a coach athlete relationship, the relationship piece is what's important. And I'm not for everybody. You know, I'm really not because the athletes that I work with, I call everybody an athlete, right? It's just our office is different. It's a corporate athlete that I work with. Like there has to be you know, this willing to be able to push yourself. And if we're not gonna be willing to do any physical stuff, then I'm not the right guy for you. You know? I'm just not. And there's other people that are out there that maybe their approach is better. So the interviewing piece is important. I'm always starting I'm, I try working backwards and looking at what does success look like? Like most of the people I work with, like they have success. So what is it that's lacking? You know, sometimes it's that peace of mind. Sometimes it's just all too complicated. It's not simple. Sometimes they feel this just immense pressure that what we're talking about, right? They can't, or they can no longer. Reveal or show up as them true selves because there's just too much on the line now. And always look at, you know, mental toughness. The older we get and the better we get. It's more about what takes place off the field than what takes place on the field. On the field. Sometimes, man, that's the easy thing for'em, right? Like being in the deal or in the mix. It's just what takes place outside of it that becomes more and more difficult. And so really it's just about working backwards, man. What does success look like? How are we gonna know when we reach it?

Michael Bauman: 25:48

Yes. That's everything that I talk about. Super important. Let's, I mean, let's use that and I, I want to flip it over to you and ask like, what does success look like for you? Personally, and how do you create that in.

Rob Bell: 26:02

Yeah, that's a great question, ma'am. So I always think a lot about that and. You know, like, like anybody, man, I mean, there's material things, you know, I like experiences and stuff like that, but it really comes to success. When I was growing up, Joe Smith, I was a Maryland Terrapins fan, basketball fan. So Joe Smith played for Maryland basketball. It was first round draft pick, and they went and they played at Duke. One of the games now growing up, hated Duke, right? Couldn't stand Duke. Joe Smith went down to Cameron Indoor Stadium and had one of these games that was iconic. I mean, just took over the game and won, you know, beat Duke at Duke. And it was basically him. And I remember watching, and the Cameron crazies did something they actually clapped and applauded for him. And I was like, whoa. Like that's the strangest thing I've ever seen. You know what I mean? And it really got me thinking, well, what does success look? And this is why I think success is for me, it's being able to root for everybody. Because when I can root for everybody, everybody to have success, then the only way that I can do that is come from mentality in a stance of you know, abundance, an abundance mentality that this is not a zero sum game. That there's a slice of pie for everybody. And when I can root for other people, like even opponent, That's where I look at, man, that's the best competition because that's gonna even make you better. But that's the part of when people have success, I need to be able to look at it and say, man what is it that they're doing? Right? What is it that they do? I'm not looking at their why, but I'm looking at their, how. We gotta look at our own why and examine other people's how. You know, and sometimes like when I'm not feeling confident, not feeling good or haven't had success, like that gets really difficult, right? Because I don't wanna start rooting for other people. Like I just need to focus more on what I'm doing when it's really, it's the opposite. And when I am at my best, I'm rooting for everybody. And that's what I look at. What is true success.

Michael Bauman: 28:05

Wow. Yeah I love that is. That is powerful and it's very easy to tell whether you're in alignment with that or out of alignment with that. And it's, you know, easy to kind of use that as a reset. So, yeah, I really appreciate that.

Rob Bell: 28:20

Now people are gonna say, well, does that mean you root for Duke basketball? Like, no,

Michael Bauman: 28:24

I don't go that far

Rob Bell: 28:25

Yeah, I'm not talking about that

Michael Bauman: 28:26

roof for everybody except for Duke. That's what to define as success. So I like, I know, you know, you're a parent. I'm a parent. I also like asking and you have a book about parenting as well. But I am curious too, like what would you say is success as a parent?

Rob Bell: 28:43

And that's a great one, man. You know, I really like it when parents, other parents or other teachers will comment to us, how. You know how good our kids are. You know, I think that, I mean that, that's wonderful compliment, you know? And that really feels good. And it feels better because it's like, you know, we only get these sort of things like, cuz yesterday my kids were your age, you know what I mean? And that was yesterday. And so the fact of the clock grows legs when they get older. Like it's being able to, being able then to look at that and, okay, well what does success, what is it that I want for them? And the answer, it's pretty elementary, but I want, when they have a flat tire, I don't want to be the first call that, that I get. I want them to be able to handle that situation and then to call me later and then let me know. Now, of course I'll be there for it, but I've mentioned that because our job as parents is to build capacity, not dependency. Like I don't want'em dependent on us. I don't want'em dependent on me. If they become dependent on me, I'm gonna let'em down at some point, right? Because then that's required me to always be available when, no, my job is to teach you how you can be able to handle these adversity on your own. You know, and that's, man, I know it's a bit elementary, but that's what I kind of looked at. Like when they face difficult situation, I don't want to have to be the first caller to make.

Michael Bauman: 30:16

Yeah. How do you go about. Creating or kind of holding the space for them to develop their own mental toughness in a way that obviously they know that you still are 100% behind them, 100%. Support them, 100% love them. What does that look like for you?

Rob Bell: 30:33

Yeah, and I think that's the part, I mean, I look athletes in general wanna be coached hard. They do, but. They also want to be loved, you know? So I think if you come from the standpoint of knowing that you care about'em, they want to be coached hard because you have that base that's there. So that's what's key, is tell my kids, you know, how much I love them, you know, and we talk about it all the time and how much I love them, because you don't know when that last day is gonna be, unfortunately. And once we come from that standpoint, then, you know, then we can coach'em hard. You know, they've always. I look at work as, man, it's a pillar to life. It's a pillar to skills. It's a pillar. I just think like there's, and that's probably like the ultra runner in me, right? It's like, Rob, do you want to come like chop wood, you know, this afternoon and then like, watch a game? Yeah. Yeah. I do. I mean, that sounds like fun to me cuz I like working, you know, and I do, I just love work and so teaching them even that appreciation I think is a big part. And then the other part is, it's funny because my daughter and I were born in the same day, so she has the same hurts, hangups, and headaches that I do. So I can actually see like when they're coming and I'll always look at, look, the best coaching that we do is always in the debrief. It's always gonna be after the situation. All right. What did we learn from that kind of situation there? What do we do different? You know, my daughter was in a tennis match last year where, you know, she was getting hooked, man. She was getting cheat. Nothing I can do as a parent, but she went up and had that conversation with that player and basically said, you know, what game are we playing here? And boy, I was so proud of that, you know, and it had nothing to do with the outcome and the match, but it was like that's what you want. Somebody that has their voice, you know, that has agency that knows that they're empowered and that they can do whatever they want. I've always told my daughter, I'm not raising a princess. I'm raising a president. Because a princess man stuff is bequeath to you as a president, you have to earn it, you know, and it's said there's, nobody's gonna be giving you anything. And if you have that mentality, then you're just gonna be somebody that's just trying to work the system. And so I think like those are always a couple of them. And then it's just giving them that space, giving'em that freedom, giving'em that responsibility that, that goes along with it. And no matter what I mean, still loving'em when they make mistakes and when they mess up. You know, just being able guide him through that path I think is important.

Michael Bauman: 33:02

Yeah, a lot of really good things in that as far as, you know, like you said, like you mentioned, to build capacity rather than dependency. The other thing, and this is again, another pillar in this mental toughness piece, is that aspect of confidence. So I'm curious both for your kids, how you do that, but then also just in general with the, you know, corporate athletes, the athletes that you work with. How do we go. Training confidence that you can show up how you've prepared to show up when you need to.

Rob Bell: 33:33

Yeah I ultimately think it just gets back to your identity. You have to know what your identity is, and once you know your identity and what that foundation is, then you are not going to live and die off of every performance and every failure and setback. You know, what your identity is rooted in. Ultimately. I think that's where confidence comes from. Because I've looked at people that have struggled the most, and it's when that confidence is not there anymore. Well, why is that? Because they were always dependent on success to tell'em like who they were. And the problem with that is, and this is sort of the good part, is when you have success, you get a lot of pets in the back, you get a lot of attaboys, you get a lot of recognition for it, and then that is what then can feed your soul. But if that's what's. Ultimately it's gonna leave you empty and it just cannot sustain it. So I look at confidence as knowing what your identity is, and then from that, I mean, look man, there's so many different you just gotta know, I think what your strength is. You know, like my son, he's tremendous at letting go of mistakes. I don't know how he does it, man. I really don't like you. Are you my.

Michael Bauman: 34:49

Yeah.

Rob Bell: 34:51

Because, yeah, he'll get upset, but it's like, you know, an hour later, like it's gone. Like it's totally gone, dude. I'm raking myself over the coals for that. So he has to then lead with that, and that's how he is gonna get confidence, you know, knowing that, look, the mistakes, it's a bruise. It's not a tattoo. He's, once you lead from like your strengths my strength of like never giving up. Okay. If I lead with that, then I'm gonna have confidence in. If I'm leading from, you know, my ability to focus under pressure then we get confidence in that. So I think it's definitely about knowing what your strength is and constantly refining that and working from that. And that's how I think that we get real confidence. The other part, I mean, it's about putting yourself in so many different types of situations as well. I've been blessed, man, lived in a lot of different states that and just have been around. Have you know, the experience and I think that confidence definitely comes from experience, but just being able to put yourself in, I think, so many different arenas and that's how we're learning about ourselves and that's ultimately how we get confidence from it.

Michael Bauman: 35:57

Yeah I like that perspective too, cuz a lot of times people think and you know, not to minimize planning for different situations and, you know, seeing what could go wrong and having plans for that. But I think. You know, like what you're talking about, there's maybe not enough said or not enough emphasis put on actually understanding that it doesn't matter the situation. You understand one, how it's gonna make you feel. You understand how to then leverage your strengths that you have in whatever chaotic, uncertain environment that is presented. You know how you'll feel and you know how you could respond to it. I think there's not enough, you know, we plan for the situations, but like you talk about how can we plan to have the mental toughness, so that doesn't matter the situation. I am leveraging my strengths, and I like how you brought that up with your son. So talk to us. I know, I mean, you have a ton of books that you've already written you're writing another one. Talk to us a little bit about that and what the premise is.

Rob Bell: 36:57

So the next book is called, I Can't Wait to Be Patient. And the fastest way to get there. It's, you know, I look at the many different paths that we can take towards improvement and getting better and it's, it was really because of the kids, right? I mean, look, we're gonna be having the same conversation 10 years from now, Mike, and it's like, you know, boy, that was fast. Like when you have kids, the clock grows legs and it goes so fast. That I don't think we value time enough. I think we undervalue time when we have to overvalue it as the most precious resource that we have. And if you approach it that way, then how do we get so immersed then just with the pro, with the process about what we're doing? Cause I think the process takes patience. The product takes perspective. And the book is just all on that. Like, when do we need to act? When is the time not to act? How do we get in flow? How do we get in that zone? And it's really, it's just based around the concept of time and being able to value it. So if there's something that I want somebody to take from it though, it's like, you know, you don't have time to shoot yourself with a needle, you know, you don't have time to waste. You know, just scrolling all day long. You don't have time to, to spend in negativity or, you know, rumors and stuff like that. You don't have time for that stuff because the more and more time you take for that, it's taking time away from what is important. And I'm all about getting stuff done, man. A hundred percent. I mean, that's just what I do, right? I mean, you get stuff done and it's progress. But when we get distracted by the urgent, because sometimes what is important isn't necessarily urgent, and we can make that mistake where now we get stressed because now we're taking something that's important, but it's not, but not urgent. And now we're making it urgent. And that can cause stress like in our lives or kind of what I just said about we spend too much time on that, which is unimportant. And I'm not talking. Making sure you have relaxed and recovery time. I'm not talking about that. Like that is time that you need to set in there and have, but just throughout the day, how much time we kind of waste and we're not getting better from it. And that's what the book's all about man. And it's about all, you know, on these situations, what is it that really kind of what we were talking about, like those triggers that happen in our life because I wrote, I can't wait to be patient cuz I'm not patient. Right. I'm not. I want it now, and I know that when it comes to progress, but why is it sometimes then I'll get stressed, like in the checkout line, you know, at the supermarket? Why is it that I will get frustrated? Because we're not connecting here, you know, online and in the big scheme of life, like it's not gonna make. Minute, a difference, but I'll get stressed in those kinds of situations. Why is that? Because I've made a situation urgent when it doesn't need to be urgent. And when we confuse that's when a lot of mistakes can happen. And that's what the book's all about, man. So it's getting written. It's, I can't wait for it to be done, but it, yeah, it's quite the process when it comes to it, man. But I'm hoping we'll really have something that will help a lot of people. But I think if we can approach the mental game through the time and through that patient's. Cuz I'm still not running to many people that are like, oh yeah, I'm really patient. I think there's some, you know, but not a lot. I run into more people like Yeah. I struggle with patience.

Michael Bauman: 40:31

Perfect. So you're writing a book for all of us. For yourself. For all of us. Excellent. So where can people go to connect up with you, to connect with what you're doing? You know, get the previous books that you have.

Rob Bell: 40:44

Yeah, absolutely man. Well, I appreciate that. You know, all on social media or my website, it's just drrobbell.com that's social media links as well, ma'am. But thanks so much for having me. I want to get you on my podcast too then, man. We'll

Michael Bauman: 40:57

Absolutely. I'd love that. I really appreciate it. I appreciate your time. I loved the insights that you talked about you know, even around a success, looking at it and going, can I, like, celebrate everybody around me? And knowing if you're not in that, like how can you, you know, recenter and then, you know, building confidence and confidence in your kids. And I really appreciate it. So thanks so much for your,

Rob Bell: 41:19

Absolutely, thank you man!

Michael Bauman: 41:22

Before you go, I would love it if you actually just shared this episode with a friend. I'm sure while you were listening, someone just popped in your head and you're like, oh, they would probably like this as well. So it's really easy. You just click the share button on either the website or whatever podcast platform you're on and send it over to'em, and chances are they'll probably like it too. Until next time, keep engineering your success.