Next Level University

#1573 - Don't Worry About Getting There Fast

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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When we find ourselves amidst a crisis, the very notion of progress can seem daunting. In today’s episode, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros delve into the intricacies of such a journey. It's a tale not just of survival but of crafting a narrative of success against the backdrop of adversity. It's not just about weathering the storm but learning how to dance in the rain – this conversation is an intimate account of just that.

Links mentioned:
Next Level Nation - https://www.facebook.com/groups/459320958216700
Next Level U Book Club - https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/next-level-book-club/

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Show notes:
(1:43) Turbulent times
(4:58) Give it all
(8:40) If it's not fundamental, it doesn't get your focus
(10:56) The Two Things
(14:59) Nathan expresses his appreciation for the invaluable coaching services he received from Alan.
(16:59) Building a lasting value  
(21:03) The real wrong answer
(24:46) Keep grinding day by day
(30:59) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Kevin:

Next level nation. Welcome back to another episode of next level university, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. We hope you enjoyed our latest episode. It was a very hyper conscious episode, episode number 1572. How well are you using your intuition today for episode number 1573? Don't worry about getting there fast. I had a Realization and I don't know. This kind of came out of nowhere but Flashback to when was this? 2019, I believe. Yeah, the end of 2019. I had moved in with Taryn Tara and I lived together. Was the COVID start in 2019? 2020?

Alan:

it's COVID-19. So technically, yeah, it was early 2020. Yeah, late, late 2019, early 2020.

Kevin:

All right, Tara and I moved in together in 2019, because we were like I don't know if we're gonna be able to see each other, so let's just do this. We moved in Because we want to make sure we could see each other.

Alan:

Yeah, I would say COVID made or broke many, many a relationship sure.

Kevin:

So at that point Business was doing the best that had ever done at the time. Right, business was going okay, but I was. I was riding the struggle bus. Financially it was brutal. That was the year I couldn't get Christmas presents for Tara and I couldn't afford groceries. And right around the same time my car shat the bed.

Kevin:

Oh yeah, yeah, you remember I, allen and I, were at the studio one day and I was like, hey man, I dropped my car off because my car has been stalling. I would literally drive up to a red light and it would just shut off. And if you, if I went under like 10 miles an hour, it would just say, yeah, we're done, gonna shut off and I just have to cruise to a stop or start it. Well, I was rolling, so I dropped it off at a Subaru specialist, at a Subaru, and I had a loaner car for the day. I went to the studio and I told Allen. I said, hey man, I'm expecting a call. So, just FYI, I might have to take a call. In between our conversations and the mechanic called me and he's like hey man, bad news, something in your engines blown and it's gonna be like $10,000 to the piston.

Alan:

So there's a hole in one of your pistons. There was a hole in one of my pistons.

Kevin:

It was a yeah, it was a turbocharged engine, so it was a whole thing and at this point the car like 130,000 miles on it. I am not, I cannot, I am not going to and I cannot afford to sink $10,000 into this car. So this is where the Mazdi was born. This is where the Mazda was born. Yeah, so I said I asked Allen, I said what do I do?

Alan:

He's like dude, I don't know it's still driving that hog. Yeah, you still got it. You still got that hog.

Kevin:

I asked Allen what do I do? I mean? He said, try to sell it, see if you can sell it to this guy and see if you can get a grand or two grand for it. And I was like, all right, I'll see what I can do. And I think I ended up getting like $2,000 for this car, which is my baby. I love this car, and I put $2,000 down for a new car, even though I had not a new car, a very used car, even though I had terrible credit and I was like this isn't gonna work ended up happening. I was thinking back the other day to how that all transpired and how challenging 2018-2019, some of 2020, was, and I was thinking how did we get here? How did I get here? And this was my thought. I Just tried to keep moving forward a little bit every day, and I know it probably sounds overly simplistic, but that's really all I tried to do is just move the needle a little bit every day when you say how did I get here?

Alan:

What are you referring to? I know that you don't like to brag or anything like that, but I think it's important to see the product. I don't.

Kevin:

I don't even excuse me, I don't even mean it like that. I just mean how did we get through the hardest times of this when I was questioning myself regularly how we were actually gonna? How was I gonna make it to the end of the week? How was I gonna make it to the end of the month? That I? It was a very surreal. I don't know where it came from. Recently I just had a very surreal moment of honestly. All it was was Let me just get through today and let me just do the best I can today. Let me do, let me do what I can today with what I have today, and then let me do the same thing tomorrow.

Kevin:

And that, for me, was the the thought behind this episode. In the very beginning, I was, I was very worried about getting there fast. I Was. I was way more worried about that than Alan was. I wanted, I wanted to get there tomorrow. I wanted to get there next week, maybe because I didn't feel like I was setting goals and I didn't really understand how this was all gonna work. I don't know, but now it very much is. We have goals for the year. I'm gonna try to accomplish those goals. I trust that the goals that we determine for this year will set me up for next year.

Kevin:

I'm not really worried about next year. I gotta worry about today, I gotta worry about tomorrow. I Want it to be an an inspiring story and I want, hopefully, whether you're watching or listening, you can put yourself in your own story. If you're struggling right now, you're riding the struggle bus. Even if you're doing amazing, whatever it is, sometimes all you can do is give it everything you have and sometimes everything you have is only 30%. So sometimes 30% is your 100% and just thinking back, I think there was a lot of that. I was giving it everything I had, but I was.

Kevin:

My basic human needs of paying the bills were a challenge. I didn't know how I was gonna pay rent. I didn't know what I was gonna do for a car. I remember I dumb, it was stupid, but at the time I thought it made sense. There was an app where you could have a mechanic come to you and it was advertised as cheaper than taking it to a garage because it's a mechanic. They don't have to pay for a garage or anything. They just come right to you, bring their tools Like this is awesome and had a mechanic come to look at my car before I ended up getting rid of it. It was like 900 bucks and I think I only had like $300 on my credit card and I ended up getting overcharged and I got sent to collections and it tainted my credit for a short time. Those howling.

Alan:

Oh man, what a blunder Brutal.

Kevin:

I didn't know, they didn't tell me, not as advertised, everyone remember, not as advertised. They didn't tell me. They didn't tell me they were going to charge me and I didn't know how much it was until after. Not a great business, great business model. But I think back to those.

Alan:

Leave this to say you'll never use that again.

Kevin:

No, no, we laugh about it now because we've made it to a place where, looking back and reflecting, you know it's okay now I'm not there anymore, which I'm very grateful for. But the simplest thing and the reason I really want this to become something I talk about is because people ask me all the time what should someone do if they're struggling. And I don't want to have some expert tip or this. You know what the truth is. If you're struggling, do as much as you can with what you have today and then do the same thing tomorrow and keep doing that, Because sometimes that's all you can do. Should you find a mentor? Would it be helpful? Sure, but the last thing I was worried about when I couldn't pay my bills was finding a mentor. I just wasn't. I had you and you were worried about finding mentors, which I'm grateful for. So that's my thought behind this episode. Start it with a story about Kev.

Alan:

And you said that you were super focused on speed in the beginning, and I just want to be transparent. So I feel like I've always been playing the long game in life in general and I think there's benefits to that that I'll share, which is, even if life kind of sucks right now, it will suck less later if you're playing the long game and if you're doing the fundamentals. So this episode was born. I told Kev. I have a quote on my whiteboard and it used to say used to, as in two days ago, maybe even earlier today. I think I switched this today, but when this episode was born, which is a couple of days ago when Kevin and I were masterminding, direction matters more than speed or direction but not speed or something like that Direction not speed. And now it says, which is kind of a flip side of the same coin, which is, if it's not a fundamental, it doesn't get your focus. I just wrote that today, and so fundamentals longterm have been something that I I don't know if this happened at 20. Yeah, that's really when it happened at 26.

Alan:

I got in a tough car accident, questioned my mortality. Father passed away in a car accident when he was 28 years old. I was 26 at the time and I questioned my whole life and I just made a decision inside of myself to never go for another quick fix. No more quick fix relationships, no more shiny objects, no more nonsense, fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals. And I go on podcasts now and they have trouble with me sometimes, because some of these shows are what are you most excited for in 2024? What do you think about the AI revolution?

Alan:

And it's listen, none of that really matters as much as people want to think it does. There is no shake that's gonna do it. There is no supplement that's gonna do it. There is no infomercial that's gonna do it. There is no quick fix to anything. This microwave mentality of wanting it now is just hurting us all. It is. And so, anyways, to bring this back to direction, not speed, I think two things. Number one I want you to. If you're a game Kev, you mentioned how, in the beginning, you were really focused on speed and I was always focused on the compound effect, the compound effect, the compound effect. There's two things that I say to Kevin every single time before we get off a call.

Alan:

And I've said this before, but for the new listeners, number one is, I say, another nail in the structure. I've been saying it for years. It's something I it's kind of a tradition at this point, and sometimes I'll actually forget to say it and then I'll text them, yep.

Kevin:

Another nail in the structure.

Alan:

So we're doing three episodes today. So I'll say three nails in the structure, brother, and it's playful at this point, but and then I'll say keep doing the hard things no one wants to do. And there's a lot underneath that. And when I say nail in the structure, it implies a lot of cool things. Number one we're building that's not a quick fix, Another nail in the structure. We're building something brick by brick, nail by nail, board by board. We're building something that will last. So that's kind of like what's underneath that funny thing. And then the other thing is keep doing the hard things no one wants to do.

Alan:

Aka the fundamentals that suck are the only thing that really matter. And I just reiterate that over and over and over again and that's what got us here and that's what's gonna get us there. And it will always be some iteration of that. Now are there ways that you can hone that and learn? And we talked about intuition in the last episode. Of course, but at the end of the day, it's always gonna be the tried and true fundamentals there are no new fundamentals and it's gonna be the stuff that's challenging but meaningful, and it's gonna be another nail in the structure. So what I wanna ask you, Kev, is to your point, earlier of you used to be focused on speed. Fortunately I wasn't to a detriment, FYI, so to a detriment at times, I will admit that. Look, Kevin and I have helped each other tremendously. But at a monthly meetup recently, Kevin shared a story that I think is indicative of you focusing on speed, not on fundamentals.

Kevin:

Oh, okay, I got you.

Alan:

Yeah, yeah, I'm there, not on fundamentals. So he knows the story I'm talking about, so I will shut up now. And, kev, can you please share that story?

Kevin:

This must have been. Man must have been 2018. I had left my job that year. It was winter of 2018. And I lived with my best friend, matt.

Kevin:

Matt was also a dream chaser, trying to become a real estate entrepreneur, and we lived in Worcester, massachusetts, at the time and we got like a foot of snow and it was kind of like a snow day and it wasn't a lot going on. We weren't super busy with NLU it wasn't even NLU at that point. It was the Hyper Conscious Podcast. And I said to Matt I said, dude, I got something cooking. I might actually have the fix. And it just came to me. My intuition deliver this thing. I know what's gonna take us to the top. So this is what I'm gonna do. Man, hear me out, let me paint a picture for you. I need you to record me doing something. You cool with that. Sure, he probably said, yeah, depending on what it is. Sure, okay, cool, I'm gonna. We're gonna go outside in the snow After we shoveled the driveway, I'm gonna run.

Kevin:

We had a porch. It was a nice wraparound porch. We lived in the first floor. I'm gonna do a front flip off the porch into a pile of snow. I will have a conveniently placed protein shake where I land right next to it, I will drink said protein shake and get ready. The caption is gonna be something like when you find out she likes guys who lift. And I'm gonna do it shirtless too. What do you think? And I'm sure he got up slow-clapped and probably said yeah man, that is it. That is probably gonna take us to the promised land, so that's gonna go viral.

Alan:

That was the goal, so we proceeded to do this.

Kevin:

That's what I thought. We proceeded to do. That First try. It went perfect, everything went perfect Landed right next to the protein shake, chugged it great video. And then I spent like six hours trying to edit the video and figure out how to make it the right size and how to give it a title, and I think I got 370 views, not likes, not likes views. And that was it. Nothing really happened, nothing changed, but I spent an afternoon in my snow day trying to create some content to go viral because I thought that's what was gonna happen.

Alan:

So the point of this episode is direction matters more than speed. That's the downside of trying to go viral or trying to get somewhere quick. There's an old saying offense that goes up fast, falls down fast, and that anything of true value takes hard work over the long term to build. Emilia and I we visited a place called the Biltmore. It's in South Carolina. It's really famous and it's I don't know the stats I think it's one of the most Expensive estates in all of America. It's like top five or something. There's a bunch of movies. It's like in movies. It's in Richie Rich, the movie from the 90s, Richie Rich.

Kevin:

Big fan of Richie.

Alan:

Rich, where they filmed it, and new home, sextet. I remember reading the history of the Biltmore. Biltmore is beautiful, so if you've ever been, it's awesome. It's like a 150 acre estate or something just mountains. It's really, really, really awesome. And they also have a Lina and Arda da Vinci Museum attached to it, which was really cool. But anyways, so we're touring this place and it's unreal what they built.

Alan:

It took six years, with like 200 people, to build this place in the early 1800s and it was like it's so funny because the Biltmore was I don't know what it was worth, but insane amounts of money and its generational wealth, and it was one of the first buildings in America with electricity. That's wild, with like lights, yeah, but anyways, the point of this is they couldn't build that in a day. There's a reason it's so valuable. It's so valuable because you can't just build the Biltmore. You know. There's a reason that Apple is so valuable because it's a company that's been around for 47 years, maybe 42, I don't know if it's 42 or 47, but nothing of value is built in a day, right. What's the difference between a shack and a mansion? A shack you can build in a day, right. A mansion takes a year and a half, depending on the contractor or whatever I don't know construction.

Alan:

So but the point is is that whatever career you build, whatever body you build, whatever relationship you build, there's a reason why we clap at the wedding when the couple's been together. You know that thing. On the dance floor they do where it's like, if you've been together for five years or more, stay on the dance floor, everyone else leave, and then it's 10 and then 15, and then 20 and then 30. 25 and then 30.

Alan:

And I remember you and me and I, we were at a wedding early in our relationship and there was this couple there that we had a good time with. They ended up sitting next to us and they had been together for 30 years and we had asked them like how did you do it? What's the secret, what's the cheat code? This is long before relationship talks and all the stuff we do now, and they said everything that matters and nothing that doesn't. And so we say that all the time in our relationship Everything that matters and nothing that doesn't. Meaning small potatoes, keep them small, it's not a big deal. But the things that matter honesty, vulnerability, courage, keeping the promises you make those things matter a lot, so focus on those. So anyways, there's a reason why it's everyone claps when they still at the dance floor for 30 years, because it takes decades to build that. A relationship in high school that last eight months like my first relationship, first serious relationship-ish no one claps for that.

Kevin:

I would clap for that, why would?

Alan:

you clap for that. That was nonsense. I would clap for you.

Kevin:

I didn't like you, but I'm telling you, no, I definitely wouldn't clap for you. Yeah, we were friends at that point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. Seniors Wait senior year.

Alan:

That was my senior year and high school. I was like tail end of junior dude. I don't know, man, you probably didn't like me.

Kevin:

I was wearing Abba Cromby. No, I didn't like you then. I didn't like you then.

Alan:

Yeah, I was wearing some Abba Cromby every now and then I'm not proud of this, but I pop my collar once or twice, I know for a fact, I remember that.

Kevin:

Nothing against Abba Cromby or popping your collar. You do you. I just didn't like you. You know what I mean.

Alan:

Nothing against any of you, just Alan.

Kevin:

I just didn't. I wasn't a fan of the kid that's it, it's okay.

Alan:

That's okay. We drove to five, I mean did, and you were deeply insecure, definitely yeah, and I was also arrogant, for sure I was, I was.

Kevin:

Yeah, anything you care to add to wrap the story up. Did you wrap the story up? My interrupter did you? I feel like.

Alan:

The direction, but not speed. You can build a shack in a day. You can build a surface level relationship in a day. You can build a friendship that lasts a day in a day that didn't make any sense. The point is is that if you want to build a career in a business and a life and a body and an intimate relationship that matters, it will only be meaningful to the extent that you focus on the longterm, and direction matters more than speed. That is it.

Kevin:

You've got me just because the way you looked at the camera and said that doesn't make sense, Very dismissive of yourself. I got me.

Alan:

This would be my. It didn't make any sense.

Kevin:

Well, if you just ran through it, I probably wouldn't even second-guess it.

Alan:

It's okay.

Kevin:

I think you outed yourself.

Alan:

I think it's important to do that every now and then.

Kevin:

This is my next level nugget Cause when we started the episode I went in a different direction than I intended, but I liked the direction it went. When you're struggling, the only real wrong answer is to stop trying, because when you stop trying, you're gonna be stuck there forever and having the mindset of don't worry about getting there fast. You don't have to get from where you are today to where you want to be eventually. You just have to get one step closer, and one step might be one page in a book, or reading one page of a book, or one call or one conversation with your partner, setting one boundary with your family, having a conversation with a child, whatever it may be.

Kevin:

That's what I want my next level nugget to be is when you're struggling, you just gotta focus on putting one foot in front of the other, not worrying about how long is this gonna take, because when your back is against the wall, sometimes we're just fighting for the next day. Now, obviously not really, but it seems like it. When it was really hard, I didn't know. I felt like there was no way I was ever gonna be successful. I was just trying to get to the next day.

Kevin:

Then I was getting to the next week and, okay, I gotta find a way to pay rent, find a way to get a car. How am I gonna get a car? How is that gonna work? So that, just put one foot in front of the other and do the best you can with what you have and then just focus on doing it today and then doing it tomorrow and, believe it or not, you're gonna be a lot further than a lot of people who get to a certain place and they just stop doing that and unfortunately, that tends to be where they get stuck for a long period of time, maybe forever, unfortunately.

Alan:

Whether it's Kev or me or anyone who's ever achieved any level of success and fulfillment at one point or another, no matter what. They were rock bottom, they were struggle bus. They might be where you are right now and it's hard to conceptualize that because things are going well. All things considered, we technically only grew by 18% last year and that's not necessarily knocking it out of the park, but it's still really strong. But at one point all of us Kevin, myself, everyone I've ever coached at one point we were all down and out and I mean you would have written us off. You would have written us off 100% and you would almost be right to do it.

Alan:

I think that there's something to be said about that next right move and that remembering, when you're down and out, that everyone at some point was there. I don't care who it is Oprah Winfrey, whoever At some point they were down and out, alone in bed, crying, wondering how they were going to get through the next week, never mind the next decade and I have times in my life where I was up late watching videos just trying to find inspiration.

Alan:

You would have written me off and luckily I didn't write myself off, and so hopefully that's the case for you and just believe in yourself, because no tomorrow it's not all going to be better, but one foot in front of the other, that one next right move, compounded over time, can change your whole world. I just wrote a blog about this. It's amazing what we can do over the long term. What we can do in a single day is not that incredible. It feels kind of like not a big deal. We're not going to storm the beach of Troy like Brad Pitt in Troy. The movie it's a green screen. It's not real. And I think that these movie montages of you you see the fighter given the title one more shot, or you see Brad Pitt and Troy that kind of stuff is not real. What is real is the day to day struggle, bus that you focus on getting a little bit better each day toward a direction that's meaningful and ultimately, eventually, you do wake up and go. Holy crap, holy crap. This is unbelievable.

Alan:

I talked about how I have these nice shirts now and I remember when I was a kid we would shop at Salvation Army when my stepdad left. I never had clothes like this. I never had nice clothes. Last last thing I promise I went to donate books with Emilia to our initiative Books for Babes we do during the holidays and we went back to my old stomping grounds Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Worcester and there's some schools there that are really struggle bus and we went to deliver these books to these kids. We wrote handwritten letters. It was really nice.

Alan:

But I remember being at my old apartment. I mean I saw my old apartment. We went back past my old street. I mean I used to live in a shithole, but I mean, straight up, it was a shithole. I'm not trying to sugarcoat it, it was awful.

Alan:

Now I was in college and I still had blessings, I was fortunate in some ways. But, dude, going back was a trip for me, going back to see these kids and where they grow up and what their life is like. Dude, I need that. These nice shirts and these nice cameras and our successful business, global, 170 countries that's all great and I love it and I'll never not love that. But I'll never forget where I came from.

Alan:

Man, I didn't come from anything other than struggle and a lot of people don't know that about my past and that's all fine. You can think I'm privileged, if you want. I know where I came from and that's what I always try to remember, because all the rest of this is gravy and when you come at it from that you just have such a huge advantage. I don't expect life to be great, I just don't. I think that as long as the trend line is up over time, I'm like so happy, you know, and I'm just gonna keep grinding and keep working and keep building and keep helping people, keep serving and keep growing. And if you focus on that and then you look back, going back to Worcester for me was big, going back to these underprivileged schools and seeing how these kids are and these schools are. I mean, some of these schools are not nice.

Alan:

And I look at my life now and it's like oh my God, I'm so fortunate and, yeah, I've earned it, so it's a duality. I've earned it too, but never lose sight of that. I can never lose sight of that. I tell Kev that behind the scenes, all the time I'll let you in. I tell him that all the time I told him I could never work with you if you grew up in abundance, if you grew up without like struggling financially, there's no way we could work together because entitlement for me. I just can't do it.

Kevin:

And the wildest thing about all of that is it was day by day that I'm telling you. One of the hardest things, one of the hardest realizations, or maybe one of the most dangerous misconceptions, is where you are today is where you're stuck forever, and it's where you're gonna be forever. And where somebody else is today is where they've been forever, and that just isn't the case. Neither are those of the case. It's just the years and decades, and hours and minutes and seconds and things behind the scenes that we don't see. That's why I love reminiscing about that type of stuff, because if you just tuned in, if this is your first episode ever listening to us, you might have no idea, you might not know. Go listen episode 20, it's not good, it's probably not very good, it's definitely not good, and life was different, life was very different back then. All right, we gotta go because we have another episode to record Next, love Nation. I'm gonna switch it up today.

Kevin:

If you listen to this, if you are into self-improvement, I think there are seasons and maybe you fall off track. Occasionally. Something happens in life and you forget. Well, I really should listen to a podcast today, or listen to 15 minutes of a book or 30 minutes of a book, or read pages of a book, whatever. However, you consume yourself. Improvement. If you have not yet, please subscribe on whatever platform you are listening to us on or if you're watching us on YouTube. That way, you never miss. You'll get a notification every day because we drop a new episode every day. Sometimes that's just what you need. Maybe you're gonna listen to music and you know you should really get 15 minutes of self-improvement in. You'll get a notification from us saying, hey, next Love U has dropped a new episode and it's just a nice little trigger to keep yourself. Improvement on point. So please subscribe If you haven't. We would appreciate it very, very, very much.

Alan:

We also have a book club and, speaking of books for babes, it made me think of just books and how much books have changed my life ever since I started really focusing on them. The very first book I ever bought was called how Successful People Think by John Maxwell. It's a little tiny book behind me, but books will change your world it just will. I mean people have achieved great things and they've written down how they've done it. In book club, we don't just read books for fun. We read books that will get you to challenge yourself. They will get you to grow.

Alan:

I used to joke and I used to say I know the value of a book by how bad it makes me feel about myself. What I was really being playful with is these books get you to look in the mirror and they get you to go oh, I'm leaving so much opportunity on the table. So, rather than me being playful with that, that's what these books are. We're reading High Performance Habits by Brennan Burchard. If you don't identify as a high performer, that's okay. That doesn't mean you can't read this book. That you might actually be a high performer, not even know it. Okay, so you can come in anytime.

Alan:

We're actually finishing our 14th book in three weeks and we have a poll coming in Next Level Nation. If you're not in Next Level Nation, join the link in the show notes. We're gonna be doing a poll. I already picked out the five books for the poll. I don't have them handy right now, but that poll is gonna be launching next week as well. So Book Club is every Saturday, 12.30 pm, eastern Standard Time. There's a great, tight-knit community in there. Please join. You don't have to participate. If you don't want to, you can keep your camera off, you can keep your microphone off or you can participate as much as you'd like. It's entirely up to you and I hope to see you there.

Kevin:

Tomorrow for episode number 1,574,. Does inspiration help you get your goals quicker? So I know we talked about not wanting it fast. Trust me, that episode won't be the opposite of what we're talking about today. It's not about getting your goals quick or the hack or whatever. It is the three-step process. Just something I experienced recently that reminded me of something that I experienced back when I was struggle-busting. It was a very similar time, actually the timeframe that we talked about today. So tune in tomorrow for that. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at NLU we do not have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.

Alan:

Connect again soon, next time on Nation.

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Alan Lazaros

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Kevin Palmieri

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