Next Level University

3 Questions That Will Change The Way You See Yourself (1944)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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In this episode, Kevin and Alan uncover three powerful questions that help you understand your core wounds, triggers, and responses. With humor and relatable examples, they explain how these insights can transform your relationships, improve communication, and foster emotional growth. Whether you’re navigating friendships, partnerships, or your inner struggles, this episode offers practical advice to help you connect deeply and live more authentically.

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Show notes:
(4:28) Where the three questions originated
(6:32) Defining the core wounds
(8:53) Trauma responses
(13:40) Using self-awareness to improve relationships
(20:11) “It’s not about the bowl”—thoughtfulness in relationships
(25:23) Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy: https://a.co/d/9fPpxEt
(36:26) The three phases of relationships
(43:59) Emotional regulation and growth
(46:22) Outro

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🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Kevin Palmieri

in theory, the closer they get to you, the more they realize who you are and by the end maybe you only have 10 of those people that vibe with you, when in reality, if you were just yourself the whole time, maybe it would have been 50 people that vibed with you and actually appreciated you more as they got closer.

Alan Lazaros

So then I fawn socially to try to be different than I am, to try to fit in. And then behind the scenes, it's fight, aim higher, work harder, get smarter, which makes me even more different, which makes me even more capable, and I appear even more arrogant because I'm so much more capable than what my results indicate in that moment. But how could anyone know that when I'm hiding it, fawning oh, that's so interesting.

Kevin Palmieri

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, Kevin.

Alan Lazaros

Palmieri, and I'm your co-host, alan Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri

At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Alan Lazaros

Welcome to.

Kevin Palmieri

Next Level University, next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1,944, I need to change that here on my sheet three questions that will change the way you see yourself. I think Alan sent me an audio message the other day, or maybe we were talking on here before. We recorded a podcast episode and you rattled off these three questions and I went and told Taryn and I was like these are great questions.

Alan Lazaros

Nice.

Kevin Palmieri

Next time we have a deep talk, let's have a deep talk about these three questions.

Alan Lazaros

I feel like this is a game changer. Kev went to his wife Taryn and said I was thinking earlier by myself in my office and I came up with these.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, just came to me in a dream. Yeah, in a dream, and and I probably did take full credit knowing me I probably said, I probably said something along those lines came to me in a dream. No, I don't, I don't do that, I'm, I try to be very if alan ever listened to me on another podcast and and actually understood all the credit I gave him I'm not saying you don't, but I think it would surprise you.

Alan Lazaros

There have been several hosts that we've both met that have said such yeah, kevin said so much about you, so many wonderful things, and I was like, oh, that's awesome.

Kevin Palmieri

Cool, you choose to go listen to that episode kind of or just kind of move on past it, Just kind of move on past it.

Alan Lazaros

Yeah well, I had several other things to do.

Kevin Palmieri

None as important, though most likely. I have many important things on my calendar.

Alan Lazaros

I care about my work deeply and I appreciate it. Maybe I'll listen to one at some point.

Kevin Palmieri

No, don't do that out of social pressure from me. Just know that I'll be heartbroken in the corner, but I don't want that to affect any of your decisions. Okay, I don't even want you to think twice about it, don't even think about it again. Okay, what are the three questions? Explain high level where the three questions came from, and then you and I will walk through them together so everybody sees them in practice.

Alan Lazaros

Whenever anyone hears this, that's when I'm getting excited to the kids getting warm.

Alan Lazaros

He's getting warmed up, warming up my hands to get excited. That means I'm excited, okay, so we have something called next level certified coaching nlcc steph, nico, amy, and every other week we coach on how to coach, I coach on how to coach, and it's a think tank, so to speak, that often goes over the hour, but it's basically trying to figure out how to coach people more effectively. How do we help people become more successful and more fulfilled, not only in business, but also in life? Awesome, great question.

Alan Lazaros

What I came to was that I cannot effectively coach someone to the optimal of my own ability unless I understand three key things. And this has been sort of a long time coming and I want to give credit to Emilia has taught me a ton of this. I also my therapist, carol, has taught me a ton about internal family systems. I have a client named Bianca. She does cognitive behavioral therapy. I've been curating and understanding and contemplating the human condition for, in some ways, my whole life, but especially the last decade and especially the last few years. So shout out to all my clients, all the people I coach, all the team. I mean there's no one person I can really credit. If I had to credit one person, it would be Emilia, for sure, shit.

Kevin Palmieri

Lost again. Also. Thank you, kev as well. You're definitely in that right. When I mentioned the team, I meant you too. I just know it's funny to do it. That's why I do it. I promise I'm not insecure about it I know and that's I mean.

Alan Lazaros

I like that you're funny, so it's really good. Very rarely do I sense in your energy any that it's actually truthful underneath that people say many a truth said in jest, not necessarily. If you just really do want to be funny. I made a you ever do a joke with taryn.

Kevin Palmieri

That didn't land I was like oh, that's yeah, of course I'm so sorry I did one of those with you.

Alan Lazaros

I was like, ooh, that's my bad.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, of course. Yeah, I'm so sorry. I did one of those with you. I was like, yeah, not my best work, not my best work.

Defining the core wounds

Alan Lazaros

Yeah, not my best work 199 times out of 100, she would have laughed, not the time, but anyways. So next level, certified coaching, is where we contemplate coaching, and the first thing to understand is I have number one disclaimer I'm a coach, I'm not a therapist, I'm not a clinician, I'm not a researcher. I need to say all that because I don't want anyone assuming that this is like etched in a, you know, researched, peer-reviewed paper. This is just what NLU does. What NLU does NLU takes these things that we learn and tries to make them in simpler frameworks to help people unlock themselves for a bigger, better, brighter future. Awesome.

Alan Lazaros

So I'm going to oversimplify a lot of stuff here for anyone out there listening who might be a clinician, okay, there's three main core wounds and I'm bucketing them into these three buckets. We've talked about them a little bit on the past episodes, but for new listeners, defective, unlovable, unwanted those are the labels that I chose. There's a lot of different ways to frame this, a lot of different labels. Well, is it water? Is it h2o? So don't, don't lose in the details. So defective is a core wound of a limiting belief of I'm not capable enough. The story I tell myself about myself unconsciously is not capable enough. This is the one that kevin identifies as particularly old kevin. Okay, unlovable is I am too much for other people. I am not a likable person. I'm not a lovable person. All of who I am is not lovable or likable. Okay, that one's mine. None of these are true, by the way. These are all just the record. We have playing the last one, and I'm still working on figuring this one out, because the unwanteds among my clients are still helping me understand them better and some of them are coaching me on how to coach them, which has been fascinating, but it's essentially I don't feel included. Yeah, I don't feel included, that's the best way I can describe it. Okay, so defective, unlovable, unwanted, defective sounds bad, I think. Statistically it's the largest percentage, basically, anyone who feels not good enough, not capable enough, boom, okay. So don't latch onto the labels. Unlovable just sounds bad to me too, but it is what it is. So the three questions to the point of this episode. Number one if I want to coach someone effectively, I need to know what is their core wound, their core limiting belief is another way to frame that Meaning. Are they defective, unlovable or unwanted? And again, oversimplification. Number two is what triggers it. So I'm going to use Kevin as an example. So I coached Kev, I've been mentoring him for a long time. What's his core? Wound, not capable enough, defective? Okay, what triggers that? And then what is his trauma response to that?

Alan Lazaros

You can look up trauma responses and the four main ones this you can quote me on is fight, flight, freeze and fawn. Fight is to attack. Flight is to run away, avoid, procrastinate. Freeze is to disassociate and just completely like check out. If you've ever seen the movie Click, when he's fast forwarding through his life in the movie Click with Adam Sandler, that's kind of like disassociating, just you're kind of a shell of yourself, just kind of walking through your day. And then the last one is fawn. Fawn is a social coward who basically just appeases, appeases, appease. Whatever you need, whatever you want, please don't abandon me, please don't hurt me. And so those are the four trauma responses.

Alan Lazaros

I talk about how I was jumped in the Providence Place Mall with my friend at the time, kiki, and he fawned. He just like kind of took it. I ran away, I flight, ran, dip set. I thought this guy was gonna. It was a schizophrenic who hadn't taken his medication, who for some reason was watching the second 300 movie on a sunday not the best movie for someone who didn't take their medicine. We got jumped and kiki got his ass beat for lack of better phrasing because he just didn't fight back and I ran, ran away. I thought he was going to run because when we were kids we would always run when we heard a coyote in the woods or whatever. And so flight was my response, his was fawn, which is just Whoa, what's what's the deal. So he just kind of laid on the floor there and maybe a little disassociate as well.

Alan Lazaros

Okay, so if I'm going to coach anyone out there watching or listening, put on my coaching hat for a second. I need to know, okay, what's your core wound, not capable enough, not likable or lovable, easily villainized or not included, not wanted, which one boom, go ahead. Number two what triggers that? So I trigger a lot of people who identify as defective. That's actually one of the reasons I feel unlovable, because if I trigger Kev and Kev runs away or attacks and again I'm just using Kev as an example I'm going to feel unlikable, and then he's going to trigger my unlovable. And then what's my response to that? So we can see how we all unintentionally trigger each other.

Alan Lazaros

I want to say this as well Men tend to trigger men. Women tend to trigger men more unconsciously, like, if you've ever seen men egoing up in the gym and kind of button heads, it's because you know who's stronger, who's the bigger man and, like guys on a golf course, just dick measuring it's the dumbest shit ever and who makes more money and all that stuff. So men tend to trigger men unconsciously because they unconsciously compare to each other, and women tend to trigger women unconsciously and they compare to each other however, there's also sexual triggers and all kinds of stuff time out, time out.

Kevin Palmieri

So you said I think you might have misspoke the first time because you said women trigger men. Oh, I'm sorry, women make sure, yeah, women trigger.

Alan Lazaros

Women tend to trigger women and men tend to trigger men. So we were at Qdoba recently and love it, huge fan getting burrito bowls and Emilia comes in looking great, the the women behind the counter were treating me very kindly and they treated her like shit and it's like got it okay, she looks amazing, she's triggering, she triggering and and that was very fascinating for me to see how women treat me versus her and then to see how men treat me versus her, because men treat her really well Not always, but a lot of the time, of course right, beautiful, so, and they obviously don't like me, so not always, but that's how I feel. So, ultimately, that's number one and number two. Now number three is what is the trauma response? So, if I know Kevin's core wound and I know what triggers it and I know his response, now I feel like I understand Kevin at a very deep level and now I can help. I can push his buttons in a way that unlocks him rather than hurts him.

Kevin Palmieri

Here's a really easy thought behind this. If you've ever, if you've ever, seen somebody walking a dog on the street and you want to walk up and you want to pet the dog, the person will and you say, hey, can I pet the dog? The owner literally knows those three things about the dog and whether or not you're allowed to pet them. Because if their core wound is whatever, let's say, they're afraid of strangers. Anytime somebody approaches them, they get super nervous and their response is to bite. They know that. Yep, if it's the opposite and i't know, maybe they don't have a noticeable core wound and they love when people come up to them and their response to that is licks. They know that. Or maybe they know well, you shouldn't let your little kid walk up because my dog's going to lick your kid and they're going to be so afraid.

Alan Lazaros

Don't approach them from the left.

Kevin Palmieri

But all that is is an awareness of it's just an awareness. And if you're in a relationship and this is why I wanted to talk to taryn about it so much because if you're in a relationship and you know these things about your partner, you in real time can probably see if you're having a deep conversation and things go sideways, there's probably a reason why. Maybe it's because you, that person, got triggered and now they're practicing their trauma response. And if you know that, if you have that awareness, this is a very big potential game changer for sure so you have a.

Alan Lazaros

We've done meetups in the past about relationships and communication and trust and vulnerability, humility, courage, all that stuff. And you mentioned a concept called pinball, which is basically, yeah, you can.

Kevin Palmieri

Don't ever say the first thing that comes to mind. My example for this is always family feud, if you've ever. Oh no, there was another one I saw. I saw it recently. It was so funny Wheel of Fortune. For those who don't know, I don't know how many people watch it I think it's like an old people thing to do. My grandmother used to watch it, so I used to watch it. You spin this wheel and there's a, there's like a word puzzle that you have to solve and you get clues and you can buy letters. Can I buy a vowel? Can I buy a vowel? Can I buy a whatever? And the first person to guess it wins. And it was like One of them is timed.

Kevin Palmieri

I think it's like a 60-second clock and whoever guesses it first wins, and they get the money and they get the opportunity to spin first or something, and it was. It's kind of looked like this. But the dude taps it and he says right in the butt, and everybody just starts dying. They just start dying and everybody's laughing. The only reason that happened is because he was trying to be first and there was a timer and that was just the first thing he thought of. First thing he thought of was like starts with an R, last one has a B in it. I'm going to go with right in the butt.

Kevin Palmieri

I don't remember what it was. I don't remember what it was, but that's a really good example. That happens on Family Feud all the time, because you're trying to get the first answer. When you're trying to get the first answer, you say the first shit that comes to mind and it's usually terrible, it's usually dumb. So the thought behind pinball is you don't say the first thing, you let it bounce around a little bit, so it knocks some of the, some of the dust off, some of the ego off, maybe some of the. I got triggered. I want to trigger you back. It just allows you to think from a more constructive hopefully a constructive place.

Alan Lazaros

Yeah, aka, let's figure out. Let's just not trigger trigger, trigger, trigger, trigger trigger, because if you have two people so emilia and I, we came across this recently because we had a tough conversation and we figured out we were on a walk later on that night it's like, okay, well, what happened?

Kevin Palmieri

there and it wasn't.

Alan Lazaros

It wasn't bad, but at one point it was. It was on the way up, it was escalating and it was like, okay, we need to take a second. And so I literally sat on the floor up. It was escalating and it was like, okay, we need to take a second. And so I literally sat on the floor and I was like, let's just talk this out. You know I'm not going to. Let's not escalate anymore. One of us needs to sit. So I sat on the floor and then later on that night we were talking about it and we figured out that I was, she was communicating poorly, honestly yeah, that was what I think.

Alan Lazaros

And she agreed and I was not emotionally regulating well, so she would say something If you ever want to see me frustrated, say something that's really dumb or inaccurate. I don't like so. Emilia and I, we learn from each other all the time. So when she says something that sounds really inaccurate to me, I'm like wait a minute. Do I not know you as well as I thought? Do you not know me as well as I thought? Did we? Am I missing? What are we missing? Right? Anomaly, anomaly, anomaly. That's what my, my brain is like error, error, error.

Alan Lazaros

And and I didn't emotionally regulate as well, which made her communicate even worse, worse, which made me even more like heightened. And again we stopped it and I sat on the floor. We just took a minute, we hung out, but like we had to find out, like what was the deal there? Okay, so when you don't want to have the conversation, you basically just say the surface level thing. That makes no sense to me, to kind of brush me off, and then that makes me want to understand more, and so I raise my engagement level, my intensity to me, to kind of brush me off, and then that makes me want to understand more, and so I raise my engagement level, my intensity, to try to understand, which makes you want to brush it off even more. And it's this whole thing. So, ultimately, pinball is take a minute, we're triggering each other. We have no idea why. This has nothing to do with each other. This has everything to do with our past, our conditioning, our triggers.

Alan Lazaros

What happened earlier? She had, I had therapy earlier that day, I was in an emotional state, blah, blah, blah. So we coach couples and there's this one story where they were going to go away and, statistically speaking, from my experience, the woman tends to be more proactive with travel. Typically the guy isn't ready until the last minute, and again, I'm guilty of that too, and one of the clients that we have, the man, the woman, was already fully packed bags by the door ready to rock. You know, get in the flight. You know, get in the flight, kev, you do well at that. And the man in the relationship packed as quick as possible in like 20 minutes, and the girl the female in the relationship had her bowl, her cereal bowl, out for her first thing in the morning.

Alan Lazaros

Guy woke up, walked out of bed, grabbed the bowl, hammered it yeah, you never do that, you selfish, like that's not smart. It melt yeah. Yeah, yeah, you never do that, you selfish, like that's not smart. So, guy, being a guy not thinking right, lack of thoughtfulness, ladies out there like come on, that's the whole game. Just be thoughtful. You're in your head, you're thinking about the future, you're thinking about finances, but you're just being selfish, you don't even mean to, you're just not thinking. And so he just grabs the bowl, eats cereal, thinks nothing of it. Ah, it's just a bowl.

Kevin Palmieri

No, it's not. It's the fact that you are not thoughtful sir.

Alan Lazaros

Wait, it's not a. Did you pour it the night before?

"It’s not about the bowl"—thoughtfulness in relationships

Kevin Palmieri

no, no, it's just out and ready with the spoon, you know I'm gonna say, if you pour your cereal the night before, you are next level good for you and the milk is gonna curdle yes, definitely am I, but again we always have this saying is it's not about the bowl yeah

Alan Lazaros

it's never about the bowl, it's never about the seat belt, it's never about the toilet seat, it's not. It's about thoughtfulness, it's about miscommunication, it's about conditioning, triggers and all this stuff. So, ultimately, when you are in an intimate relationship, when you're in any relationship, if you know your own core wound, what triggers it, and then what your reaction is when it's triggered, and then you know your partners, you are gonna. It's almost like, yeah, the metaphor is it's a video game you've played a thousand times and you you can see where the guys are coming out or the girls are coming out to attack you and it's like, oh okay, we're good, boom, boom, all good. You can anticipate without reacting, because it's the reacting that things get messy quickly.

Kevin Palmieri

You're just in better control. You're in better control of the situation and at least if you're aware I won't say if you're aware of somebody's trigger, it's a choice to trigger them because, again, depends to your point, it depends on emotional regulation. You're going through your own, you're in your own head, you're going through your own stuff you might not be as conscious as you should be of. If I approach the situation this way, the person might get triggered. Understandable situation. This way, the person might get triggered. Understandable, understandable. But it is a cheat code, for sure. And even if you just have those three things in a relationship, I'm willing to bet you will be way more successful Because now you have the root cause and you can decelerate when you realize, okay, something got poked here. I want to make sure that I'm not continuing to poke that. Like, let's take a step back.

Kevin Palmieri

Taryn and I. She suggested something. We had a challenging conversation as well today and she said I read online that when you have challenging conversations, you should put your forehead with your partners. And I was like what, what are you talking about? And she said I read online that when you have challenging conversations, you should put your forehead with your partners. And I was like what, what are you talking about? And she's just put your, put your forehead on my forehead all right and it was the best you know it's, it's really it's.

Alan Lazaros

I do that with emilia all the time, not when we're having challenging conversations, but like all the time.

Kevin Palmieri

That's just a yeah, it's a beautiful way we do that all this all the time, but today we were having a challenging conversation. She she said put your forehead against mine, game changer. You can't really argue with someone when you're cross-eyed because you're trying to look at them in the eye. It was good, it was very, but it was along the same lines of I was sharing that I got triggered because of this, and the fact that I got triggered because of that triggered you in this way and it became a thing that just kept yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

But then when we get down to the reason I feel the way I do is this, and I understand that that makes you feel the way you feel because of this. Let's make sure we're on the same page. But it all goes back to that awareness it's. You can't really I don't want to say that I don't like blanket statements because I complain about those all the time I think one of the most important things in the world to understand is yourself and if you're going to emotionally regulate, these are three of the most important things you can understand, because now you're not at the luck of what is said to you. At least you understand. So example I've told this story before, but I think this is the best example of this in practice.

Kevin Palmieri

Alan myself and one of our buddies was working out in the gym. We were in Florida. Alan and I were co-hosting an event and when we travel together, we're always in the gym. It's awesome. We always work out when we're on the road, love it. And I was leading the workout, as I often do, and when I'm in the gym, I'm 10 out of 10 confident. We were in very good shape at that point. We were very focused on fitness and I was just feeling really good 10 out of 10. We finished the workout and then we sat down and we started talking about business and at that point and even now, but at that point I didn't feel very good in business. So I had an internal dialogue of wow, alan and this guy we're with are super arrogant. Like why the hell are they so arrogant? Sat there again.

Alan Lazaros

I know, when I don't feel good enough, I reach for things so defective don't feel good enough yes, not capable enough in this case not capable, not smart enough then you get triggered by someone else who does feel very capable, yes, okay. So what's the core wound? First question defective, not capable enough. What triggers it is being around people who are capable enough, yeah, or who seem.

Kevin Palmieri

The opposite of my core wound.

Alan Lazaros

Right, okay, and then?

Kevin Palmieri

the third reaction was what it was villainize to start, which is why I think that happens so often to you. And then it was go inward. And then again the question that you've heard me say this a million times is this a me problem or is this a them problem? And that changed. That changed my life forever, because that's a question I ask myself very often now. Is this a me problem? Is this a them problem? Am I creating this? Are they creating this?

Alan Lazaros

Hello, hello, hello. Nlu listener. Thank you, as always, for listening to Next Level University. Real quick, I just want to jump in and let you know about the Next Level Dreamliner. This is a journal that I use every single day. Achieve your dreams 90 days at a time. It breaks down your dreams into goals, milestones and daily habits. We hope you enjoy it. The link will be in the show notes. We had someone come into the group coaching program and then email us after the first session saying Alan speaks too highly about himself. I wish this was more about Kev. I thought Kev was going to be a bigger part of this Like I can't do this and I'm out, and that triggered the hell out of my unlovable. So, okay, my core wound is unlovable. So this is what happened. I'm in the coaching session. He probably has the core wound of defective. I hold the humility that I could be wrong. I don't think that I am, but I could be core wound defective. Okay, I come in and this is my jam group coaching.

Kevin Palmieri

Awesome Boom.

Alan Lazaros

Probably came off as arrogant, I understand, especially because I probably felt his insecurity, which makes me probably come off even more arrogant because I'm triggered that I'm going to be disliked. So then I change who I am, which probably comes off as inauthentic. It's like this whole freaking thing and so his core wound's, defective, that triggers my unlovable. He wants to fight and then run away and I want to fawn and like, appease him. And then my trauma response after that is fight, aim higher, work harder, get smarter. So let's make this program better, let's make it even better, which makes it even worse. Unfortunately it can and and I finally understand now, like that cycle that I've been running and, kev, I want you to, if you're willing to, you do this, I want you to potentially unpack this.

Alan Lazaros

So this is what my trauma response was Okay, so unlovable. I get disliked or villainized, which makes me want to be even more competent, thinking that will get me love, which makes me even more disliked and more villainized. So then I fawn socially to try to be different than I am, to try to fit in, and then, behind the scenes, it's fight, aim higher, work harder, get smarter, which makes me even more different, which makes me even more capable and I appear even more arrogant because I'm so much more capable than what my results indicate in that moment. But how could anyone know that when I'm hiding it fawning?

Kevin Palmieri

Oh, that's so interesting, damn, it's almost like you set yourself up to be disliked when people eventually get the real you. So if you take a group of 100 people and you pretend to be someone that you're not, and let's say 90.

Alan Lazaros

Unconsciously, Unconsciously.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, just as a safety mechanism. Self-preservation, let's say, 90 out of those 100 people vie with you Like alright cool.

Kevin Palmieri

Then they decide what's a good example? They decide to follow you on social media. Hypothetically it's a little more Alan. 10 of those people are like nah, that's not for me. So now it's 80 out of that original 100. In theory, the closer they get to you, the more they realize who you are and by the end maybe you only have 10 of those people that vibe with you, when in reality, if you were just yourself the whole time, maybe it would have been 50 people that vibed with you and got actually appreciated you more as they got closer yeah maybe again that's very theoretical.

Alan Lazaros

Well, let's have this conversation. So ultimately I would be triggered by other people not liking me because they were triggered by my obsessive nature. And then my response to that was fun to get love in the moment without knowing it, which is like kind of dim and be a little less, to try to be funnier or whatever it is to get likable. Whatever it is to get likable, then behind the scenes, aim higher, work harder, get smarter, get more intense, get more capable, get more intelligent. And I think that if I were to really break it down, my trauma response, if I had to really oversimplify it, it would be I'm not likable, so I'm gonna go get smarter.

Alan Lazaros

I've been running that shit my whole life. I just want to be smarter. That's like my thing. It's always been my thing when I was a little prepubescent sort of middle schooler, getting pity dances from my sister and the bullies. They were athletic. So to me I was just smarter, I'll just get smarter, I'll aim higher and I'll get smarter. And so if anyone's insecure about their intelligence, they're probably going to be triggered by me and then I'm going to fawn unconsciously to try to trigger them less and then go get smarter, which ultimately makes it worse. So it's like get triggered Okay, trigger someone else's not smart enough because I spent so much time getting smarter, then dim to try to fit in. Then, behind the scenes, go get even smarter so that I'm even less likable. Can I ask you something? Why isn't being smarter more likable? I never understood that. To me, smart is like the most important thing in the world. Why isn't it like a?

Kevin Palmieri

good thing, I think anything that differentiates you from other people isn't necessarily a good thing.

Alan Lazaros

I'm going to say this I know it will come off pretentious and arrogant. I have, like several multi-millionaire, like CEOs reaching out to me to hang out. They love how smart I am, but, like no one else likes it, I don't get it. But this is the one else likes it. I don't get it.

Kevin Palmieri

But this is the thing. A lot of people don't like them either. Yeah, people tend to stick together. Jocks hang with the jocks, the goths hang with the goths In high school again, I know.

Alan Lazaros

I'm talking mean girls here. I was fawning, so I was chameleoning. Well, I think that can happen. I was fawning, so I was chameleoning. Well, I think that can happen.

Kevin Palmieri

The nerds and the jocks, but I think we decide pretty early in life this is safe. These are my people. This is where I fit in. You don't hang with people that you don't fit in with because you're afraid you're going to get found out, or you try to fit in everywhere because you are so afraid to not fit in anywhere. That's a piece of it too, yeah, so what's your?

Alan Lazaros

mine was definitely that Trigger people be disliked. Go get smarter, which made it worse. Rinse and repeat for 36 years and it wasn't until 30 years, when I started doing therapy, where I started to really break this and start to understand Really. 26 after my car accident, I started to go. You know what? No-transcript.

Kevin Palmieri

I don't mind, didn't really. I don't know if it manifested as externally, I think, for me not competent enough, not capable enough, not good enough, not smart enough, not enough, just not enough. Almost in any scenario, that was my, that was my core wound. Anytime I failed, it made me second, it made me second guess everything and say all right. So I went to the fire, I went to the Massachusetts fire Academy volunteer fire Academy. It's different than the full-time one. I passed all the written tests pretty well. I think I was in the higher percentage of the written stuff because I could study, and it was. It wasn't, you know, it was hard, but you could study. You had the book, you knew what the quest that the quizzes were going to be on. It was fine. When we did the physical stuff, I failed the first test and I had a moment, like during when I was failing, where I was like, yeah, of course this would happen to me, and then I didn't want to go back and take it.

Alan Lazaros

I didn't want to do it a second time, why, of course, this would happen to me, because that's the way it seems to go.

Kevin Palmieri

That's the way it always seems to go.

Alan Lazaros

That was the internal dialogue, I think what triggered you the most back then and we've evolved a ton old Kev was so afraid of being embarrassed, like doing something in front of others not well was just like the ultimate nightmare.

Kevin Palmieri

I remember we were, we interviewed Danielle Murr, 24, episode 24, 26. And I was talking about how one of my deepest fears was walking up to a door and pulling it and it not opening. And she resonated with that a ton and you had no idea what we were talking about. Oh, my goodness, that was because I was afraid of embarrassment.

Alan Lazaros

I thought you guys were out of your minds back then. Now it makes perfect sense. I was afraid of embarrassment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was afraid of embarrassment. People like me better when I suck, so for me that's not scary. Sucking is socially acceptable for me.

Kevin Palmieri

Well, I think people like you better when you suck and you like you better around people when you suck. You did, you don't need more, because it makes you Wait, wait, wait. Say that again People like you better when you suck.

Alan Lazaros

Definitely 100%.

Kevin Palmieri

But in the past you also liked yourself better when you sucked around other people, because it made you feel like you belonged more. Yeah, I'm on the opposite. I don't. I don't if I'm treated like an underdog. The last thing I need to do is drop my fucking tray at lunch and spill it all over myself like that's not. I don't need to do that. I need to get some wins here you know?

Alan Lazaros

yeah, it's so fascinating. That's surprising that you and I didn't like. How the hell did we not trigger the hell out of each other? I think, we did, we worked, we worked a lot on it and I think in the beginning I wanted a friend and someone who valued me, and I think you wanted to be successful yes and I I.

Kevin Palmieri

I know mine is true. I don't know if yours is, but mine is for sure it was unconscious, mine wasn't.

Alan Lazaros

All my friends not all of them. Most of my friends back then were not treating me super well. I don't think they liked the new me. The new me was the real me. This is the real me, damn Well. That's why I've said this. I'm just so frustrated.

The three phases of relationships

Kevin Palmieri

I've said this so many times and I've said this on the team call before if you becoming a more authentic, aligned version of yourself scares some people away, they probably weren't supposed to be here from the beginning. It's like imagine if you apply to a job and then, as the job actually aligns with what you're supposed to be doing you the beginning. Yeah, it's like. Imagine if you apply to a job and then, as the job actually aligns with what you're supposed to be doing, you start to hate it. It's that you shouldn't you never should have gotten the job in the first place. It's not the job's fault. Now again, if your boss is like hey, all you have to do is come in, you sit around for eight hours a day, we'll give you like a thousand bucks a day. It's like, yeah, all right, I all right, I'm in. And then eventually you know whatever, you're walking the high wire every day. Maybe that's not it, but I think it's, as you become more and more. Now the question is well, whose fault is it?

Alan Lazaros

Well, this is also why the honeymoon phase in relationships is so scary. There's three phases. We had at one of our events back in 2019 yes, 2020, january 2020 so pre-covid 2019. It was in person, I know that. And she said there's three phases in every intimate relationship and I agree, having coached now for four years which is wild to say intimate relationships. The first phase is honeymoon easy peasy, lemon, squeezy baby, everything, everything to win, nothing to lose.

Kevin Palmieri

All good Be what you want, do what you want First date's a hot air balloon.

Alan Lazaros

I'm kidding. That's why reality TV is so far from reality. It's like no, no way You're overlooking Venice in a hot air balloon. Of course you're going to fall in love.

Kevin Palmieri

How could you not?

Alan Lazaros

And then when you realize real life you're like oh I don't know if I like this person.

Alan Lazaros

I don't know if I like myself. Who am I? Okay? So honeymoon phase isn't real. It's not real, yeah, uh. Second phase is the power struggle phase, and kevin and I went through this in business. It's the honeymoon phases. We both love talking deep. Let's start a podcast together, let's do. And then we had guests that I'd resonate with and he wouldn't. He'd have guests that he'd resonate with and I wouldn't. And it was like power struggle, power struggle. It's like I don't know about that. I don't know about that. You swore too much. You're soft, blah, blah, blah. We were much kinder than that. I'm condensing years into a couple of sentences. And then the last one is the commitment stage, which is like you and I. I remember after steven kotler, we had a hard conversation where I was like dude, do you even want to do this like is it?

Alan Lazaros

are you sure? Because I feel bad, like I have to do this. This is a calling for me, this is not an option, and I, I don't want to drag you somewhere. You don't want to go, because I'm sick of that. I did that for too many years. And you're like, dude, I do and like I'm in, trust me and I could see, trust me and I could see it in your eyes. I could see it in your eyes. You'd fucking die for this. And I needed to see that shit, by the way, because I would too. And again, I just took that a level up.

Alan Lazaros

I was on an interview earlier. They're like you are obsessed, and I mean that in the best way. And I was like thank you for saying that second part, because, goddamn, I've been called that a thousand times. And he said I appreciate it. You're, you know, a master of your craft. You're obsessed with speaking and podcasting, all stuff, but anyways.

Alan Lazaros

So the three phases honeymoon, power struggle and then commitment stage. The commitment stage is you know what we're in this and we're we're all in and there are no other options and I'm going to burn my effing boats and we're going to take the island and we're going to do it together and that's really the moment when you really start to dial things up in your intimate relationship, in your business partnership, whatever it is, because before that you're still like, okay, kevin wants to do this, but I think that's dumb. Uh, alan is like this, but I don't know if that's a line for me, because I can't be associated with someone who you know isn't more vulnerable, whatever it is, and it's really quite powerful. But you cannot get to the commitment stage in real life unless you understand who you really are, which means you need to understand your core wound, what triggers it and what your trauma response is, because all of that is kind of you not being authentic, that's you being on autopilot.

Alan Lazaros

The authentic you is you when you're not triggered.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, yeah, we were talking on a. I know we've got to jump here in a minute. We were talking on a team call recently and we have really deep conversations when we do our team calls and I think the reason you and I have worked as well as we have is because I understand the benefits of overcoming the trauma response. There's a lot of benefits of me leveling up through that and not villainizing you and not villainizing people who are smart and all that, and I think that just came over time. But for some people it's not worth it and that's where things get. I mean, if it's not worth it, you're not going to do it. For me, it was worth it. I, you and I are business partners. I, if I don't figure this out, this business isn't going to work and I, I really, really, really want this to work, like really, really, really. And I think, on the other end again, you can speak to this better than I can, but there's some hopefully, knock on wood, there's some benefit to working with me.

Alan Lazaros

Hopefully.

Kevin Palmieri

But I think when you start to understand the answer to these three questions for someone, you start to appreciate them for them and you give them permission to be them. That's something very important, where you know that I'm not going to live life the same way as you. Your optimal and my optimal aren't the same. They can't be because we're not the same person. Now, can I move closer to your optimal to a degree? Yes. Can you move closer to mine, I think, in certain things. If it's valuable, sure, but that's why advice almost can never really be blanket statement, because you don't. What are you smiling about?

Alan Lazaros

I just had a moment, kid's staring at me, smiling.

Kevin Palmieri

You like what I'm saying, son.

Alan Lazaros

It's apparently triggering him? Yeah, for sure. It's just, it's been, it's been something, it's been a hell of a climb and it's just nice to have so much understanding.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, we're very blessed because you and I are not the same. I just mean we're polar opposites in so many ways.

Alan Lazaros

Well, we have complete polar opposite core wound right. Yeah, I'm not. I don't feel not capable enough.

Kevin Palmieri

Dude, I don't well, it's good, because I feel that way, I've gotten some of that now yeah right, I've got to be unlovable as shit. Son, I'm kidding I mean maybe I don't know. Whatever, we'll figure it out we'll figure it out.

Alan Lazaros

last piece I was on an interview earlier and we were talking about this was a business owner who invests in businesses and he was talking about how do you know who to bring onto your team and who not to? And I said that was the hardest thing ever Ever. I said I figured something out. We have a triangle with me you and christina. So before anyone comes on the nlu team now the core team, we have them. Meet kev, meet christina, meet me. The reason why is because we all trigger each other differently.

Alan Lazaros

So if it's like a 360-degree feedback of whether or not they actually fit the core values, so number one is do they fit the core values of the organization, which is humility times 1,000, inner humility, not outward. Inner personal growth. Obviously self-improvement company and service-driven, heart-driven Needs to be focused on service more than what can I get here? If you want minimal effort for huge rewards, you're just going to hate being here, trust me. But anyways. So for the longest time there were certain people that were not a good fit. In hindsight I'm not scared to say that anymore. I used to be too much of a coward. There were some people that were just a terrible fit, and it is what it is. We're not for everyone and I'm okay with that. Now, I never used to be, obviously to the extent that I am now, because I was more, uh, scared of being disliked.

Emotional regulation and growth

Alan Lazaros

But when they meet kev, when they meet christina, when they meet me, what that really does is it triggers a different thing from each of them. So one of us is going to see the them, so one of us is going to see the authentic version and one of us is going to see the inauthentic version potentially. And so we do green, yellow, red. If it's a green from Kevin myself and me, christina myself and Kevin, then that means it's green, it's good. But if there's any yellow or red, we need to be careful of that, because one time Kevin and I both coached someone and he called me afterwards Dude, did you see the ego?

Alan Lazaros

Holy crap, man Like arrogant as hell. I'm paraphrasing and I said dude, she's always like that with me, he's like seriously. And we figured out I just trigger her, I trigger her and so she egos up. Understandable self preservation, we all do this. But I trigger people so much differently than kevin does, so I'm getting a different version of people than he is, and emilia is getting a different version of people than I am, and christina is getting a different version of people, and that's why these questions are so important, because if you don't know them, you might not understand that everyone is a certain version of themselves around you. I'm going to be a little different coaching a seven-year-old than I am a 70-year-old, and that's by design. But if you don't trigger me and someone else does, I'm going to act a little different, unconsciously, out of self-preservation, and then you're going to see the world from that echo chamber and it can really ruin things, honestly.

Kevin Palmieri

Well, and that's how you can build self-belief about yourself. Every time I go talk to a person, this happens. It's like, well, that doesn't mean it's a you thing, it could be a them thing in reflection to you. And again, there's layers and layers and layers. Maybe we'll do a part two at some point, but I do know we have to get out of here. Deep one today. It's awesome.

Kevin Palmieri

A little philosophical today. Yes, sir, I was waiting for a response. Don't reject me in front of everybody. You know what I mean. I will villainize you.

Alan Lazaros

And then I'll stop. I'll stop myself and then I'll go try to get smarter. That sounds so much for me. I stop myself now.

Outro

Kevin Palmieri

I stop my. What triggers you today might trigger you for a while and it might always be something that wants to trigger you. I think it's up to us to figure out how to stop it and reroute it. Reroute the energy to something else. Reroute let's have a pause in between the trigger and what we do after that. Deep talks All right, cool. Next Level Nation. Make sure you are subscribed so you never miss an opportunity to get to the next level, on whatever podcast platform you are watching or listening on. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at NLU we don't have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.

Alan Lazaros

Stay next level.

Kevin Palmieri

Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next.

Alan Lazaros

Level family. We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

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Alan Lazaros

Host
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Kevin Palmieri

Host