Can coaches bounce back from controversy and lead a successful career? On this episode of Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan, we sit down with Bill Peters, the head coach of the Lethbridge Hurricanes, who opens up about his tumultuous journey in the world of hockey. We delve into the key moments that defined his career, including player evaluation, puck management, and strategic plays, all framed within the context of real game examples like the Edmonton-Vancouver series. Bill also bravely addresses the serious racism allegations that led to his departure from the Calgary Flames, and his path to redemption and return to the sport. This candid conversation shines a light on the necessity of open dialogue and learning from the past to foster growth in hockey.
Ever wondered how mentorship and relationship-building are pivotal in coaching? Attending a coaches conference parallel to the annual draft in Vancouver, we gather unique insights, especially from notable speeches like Travis Green's keynote on prioritizing people over winning. We also confront past controversies from 2008 that led to our guest's departure from the NHL in 2019, underscoring the importance of personal growth and education in diversity, equity, and inclusion. This discussion aims to reveal the continuous efforts to better oneself and become a more compassionate and effective coach.
How has coaching evolved in the Western Hockey League from the 1990s to today? We explore this transformation, discussing changes in playing style, officiating, and player mindset. We also tackle the complexities modern players face, from the influence of agents to parental pressures, and emphasize the need for communication and player involvement in decision-making. Additionally, we share strategies for maximizing individual and team potential, highlight the importance of situational awareness, and unveil upcoming changes in training camp structures designed to offer meaningful evaluations and development opportunities. This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone passionate about hockey and its future.
Can coaches bounce back from controversy and lead a successful career? On this episode of Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan, we sit down with Bill Peters, the head coach of the Lethbridge Hurricanes, who opens up about his tumultuous journey in the world of hockey. We delve into the key moments that defined his career, including player evaluation, puck management, and strategic plays, all framed within the context of real game examples like the Edmonton-Vancouver series. Bill also bravely addresses the serious racism allegations that led to his departure from the Calgary Flames, and his path to redemption and return to the sport. This candid conversation shines a light on the necessity of open dialogue and learning from the past to foster growth in hockey.
Ever wondered how mentorship and relationship-building are pivotal in coaching? Attending a coaches conference parallel to the annual draft in Vancouver, we gather unique insights, especially from notable speeches like Travis Green's keynote on prioritizing people over winning. We also confront past controversies from 2008 that led to our guest's departure from the NHL in 2019, underscoring the importance of personal growth and education in diversity, equity, and inclusion. This discussion aims to reveal the continuous efforts to better oneself and become a more compassionate and effective coach.
How has coaching evolved in the Western Hockey League from the 1990s to today? We explore this transformation, discussing changes in playing style, officiating, and player mindset. We also tackle the complexities modern players face, from the influence of agents to parental pressures, and emphasize the need for communication and player involvement in decision-making. Additionally, we share strategies for maximizing individual and team potential, highlight the importance of situational awareness, and unveil upcoming changes in training camp structures designed to offer meaningful evaluations and development opportunities. This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone passionate about hockey and its future.
When push comes to shove and you're evaluating players and you're talking about players and games, just ask yourself, as an athlete, as a player, who has the puck when I'm done with it? Who has the puck when I'm done with it? It's a great question, right? Because there's gonna be times you have to dump it in there's times you're hemmed into the D zone.
Speaker 1:You get the red line, you dump it in. That's a great play and you execute a. They have it, but you managed it. I've got you breaking up the middle wide open. I put it behind you, I turn it over. They counter. That's on me. So who has the puck when I'm done with it? As a d-man, who has it when I'm done with it? Like you've seen, the first uh goal, I believe in game seven in the euler vancouver series, was off an icy. No change right, or they got half ice. I think it was a change or no, it was a fourth line change. Edmonton's fourth line was out there rolling. They cycled the puck. All of a sudden Hyman gets out, mcdavid gets out. All of a sudden it's 1-0. That's a gift by that fourth line, that's a gift by those guys, matt.
Speaker 2:That was head coach of the Lethbridge Hurricanes, and you are listening to the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Padolan. Welcome to Up my Hockey with Jason Padolan, where we deconstruct the NHL journey, discuss what it takes to make it and have a few laughs along the way. I'm your host, jason Padolan, a 31st overall draft pick who played 41 NHL games but thought he was destined for a thousand. Learn from my story and those of my guests. This is a hockey podcast about reaching your potential. Hello and welcome back, or welcome to the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Padolan. I am Jason Padolan, your host here for episode 135. And today it's going to be Bill Peters.
Speaker 2:Bill Peters is the head coach of the Lethbridge Hurricanes. Bill has also previously been the head coach in the NHL for the Carolina Hurricanes and for the Calgary Flames, and he's also the head coach back for my alma mater, the Spokane Chiefs. And Bill has some history, if you don't know the name or recognize the name, and that history is relevant and it was relevant to me, and there was a lot of, I don't know, internal dialogue with me and I've also was seeked out the opinions of others around me, um, to see whether this conversation should happen or not. Um, my instinct said that it should. Um, it kind of stands for what I believe um is good about the podcast, which is discussion, uh, which is conversation, uh, which is, you know, opportunity in some cases and uh, but it's a touchy subject because if you don't know Bill's uh story, he, at the time where we first met it was 2019 at uh in Vancouver. So the NHL draft we talk about that a little bit in the conversation. We met at a workshop. We had the Spokane chiefs in common. Uh, I enjoyed the conversation with Bill. It sounded like Bill enjoyed the conversation with me. We had a mutual friend in uh, kevin Sawyer. Uh, and Kevin was going to hook him and I up and we were going to be on the podcast together.
Speaker 2:And then some allegations came out the following season, while he was head coach of the Calgary Flames, that a player that he used to coach, an African-American player, a black player, said things that Bill said and within four days, bill was let go of the Calgary Flames and kind of you know, not never to be seen again. Because here he is and he's obviously back in hockey, but he was out of the NHL, he went over to KHL to coach and ended up coming back now with Lethbridge, but I hadn't seen or heard an official comment from bill about this. Now, I had heard things in the background, which was maybe why I was more comfortable in having the conversation about, maybe, what might have happened in that dressing room, uh, what might have actually been said and and I thought that this was maybe be an opportunity for us to have that conversation for bill to maybe say something that he hasn't either had the opportunity or hasn't had the inclination uh to do. Uh, because the allegations were serious. It was, you know, racist comment to a player, um, and yeah, and you know, obviously it blew up in in his face meaning bills, and yeah, and obviously it blew up in his face meaning Bill's, and he was let go of an NHL job because of it. And it's not something that I take lightly, like that word that was used isn't something that I take lightly. You know I have people around me that I work with that you know are black. I understand where the game is trying to go with this and I understand this is a hot button topic, so there's really a lot of reasons for me to not go there, like it seems like everybody else just didn't want to go there, like nobody reached out. There's no papers that I saw, no one heard from bill.
Speaker 2:Like what, what is that side of the story? What is, uh, what is there to be said? So again, I don't want to beleaguer this, but like this was a big kind of decision. I mean, do I want to interview Bill? Bill, from what I know and heard from and in my context, seemed like he was a really good guy and a really character guy and there was, was this? There is this big blemish, this big black spot on on his uh, career to to do with this, to do this incident.
Speaker 2:So I felt that it was best to have the conversation, try my best not to be, you know, judgmental or accuse or accusational. Um, it wasn't me having a hard line opinion on anything. It was just an opportunity for Bill to say what he wanted to say and I'm happy with the way it went. You know, I don't know. Did I ask the exact right questions? Did I handle it perfectly? I don't know, I'll let you be the judge of that, but I thought Bill handled it well. I thought that Bill was able to say what was important to him. He was also able to acknowledge what was important to him. He was also able to acknowledge, uh, what was wrong with that situation, for sure, and to take ownership and accountability to also, uh, share what he has done since to grow himself and and and and have the evolution, uh, for him to to become a better person from it and and and to share the story. So maybe we can all learn from it and make hockey a better place.
Speaker 2:So I am one for conversations. I'm also one for second chances. Again, there's always two sides to every story and there's also a million opinions out there, so I'll let you, the listener, have yours when it comes to this. And, yeah, we do handle that early on. And then we get into hockey and Bill's definitely a hockey guy and he has a lot of great things to say and there's a lot of great advice and there's a lot of great stories involved in the conversation and I was happy he was able to come on and to share those with us.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I really don't know what else to say. You know, it was something that sat with me that there's there's no edits in in this conversation. Well, I mean, there is one edit because, uh, bill's phone ran out of power so we had to plug it in. But other than that, it's the real deal of the conversation. Uh, you're getting us at face value and um, and yeah, I hope that, uh, you can join with me in the ability to listen right, to hear, maybe through fresh ears, and to listen maybe with a clear mind, and then you can maybe make a judgment, or maybe you don't have to make a judgment, maybe you can just let it be what it is and hopefully everyone is better for the conversation. So, without further ado, I bring you NHL coach, former NHL coach, former Spokane Chief Head Coach and current Lethbridge coach of the WHL, bill Peters. All right, here we are, bill Peters, head Coach of the Lethbridge Hurricanes. Thanks so much for joining the Up my Hockey podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for having me. This is a long time in the making, and last time we talked about this was about five or six years ago, so happy to be able to join you here today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's crazy. We did cross paths at the draft there in Vancouver. I don't even remember what year that was. It was there, but that was quite a while ago. Yeah, quite a while ago. Yeah, um, and yeah, it was a cool. It was a cool actually. Uh, encounter. Uh, to be honest, it was just for the listeners at home. So every year there's a draft. Um, well, where the draft was, they would also have a coaches conference. So the draft was in Vancouver. I'd never been to the draft before. I'm like okay, I'm gonna go to the coaches conference and sign up for some of these workshops and, uh, bill happened to be running one of them and so, along with a a lot of other guys, there was a hot stove scenario there and that was fun. It was a good interaction with the coaches, I think. As far as from a mentorship aspect, it was interesting. What was that like on the other end for you? Like being in the chair of hosting a workshop and being a guy that's asked to do it?
Speaker 1:Well, it's been a lot of fun and you have been at the draft, but just in a different, different, uh, different vein, um. So yeah, it's a lot of fun. You know what the draft's a good time for for coaches to to get together and give back to the game. Not a lot of responsibility for the coaches at the draft. Your scouts and your gm and your management group are really busy and dialed in on what's going on. You might get asked an opinion on a player here and there, but you've never seen any of the draft eligible players per se and you just go with your business. So for coaches to be able to give back, it's, it's important. So the draft's always an enjoyable time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's fun. I remember I've used it actually a couple of times too Travis Green, it was his. It was he just finished his rookie year and uh, and he's the keynote speaker, so that the head coach of the team that's hosting is the keynote speaker at the event. And I just thought that his speech I don't know if you remember it at all, but it was pretty impactful for me just like how raw, honest he was about his own development. You know what I mean. And I thought that, like when he said that it's not about winning, and he says it is about winning, but when I put winning first, that's usually when I've made my worst mistakes as a coach, and not putting the people first, I just thought that was a pretty powerful line from a rookie head coach in the NHL. Do you remember his chat there?
Speaker 1:I thought Travis, I thought he did a great job. There's a lot of pressure in that situation, especially he's younger at the time and early in his career at the National League level. I thought he did a great job and his message was very good and very strong and very accurate. And we're in the people business right Hitch used to talk about that a lot. We spend a lot of time in front of our TVs and in front of our monitors and crunching video, but you've got to get in front of the players, you've got to get in front of the people and you've got to build a relationship. And and you got to build a relationship and I think that's what Travis was talking about and you got to get a real strong, valued relationship. So, yeah, he did a great job there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, he did. Uh, yeah, I mean I don't know if that's the best segue relationships, but I mean there is there's good ones and there's bad ones, and there's things that we do well and things we don't. And, uh, I did give you the heads up. Before we talk that we have to, you know, we have to dive into, to the scenario of what, like, had you leave the NHL in the first place.
Speaker 2:I know there's a lot of different stories out there, most of them all with the same narrative. You know, if you look it up on online about what happened and and I've heard some things in the background that maybe that's not exactly what happened and there's never been an opportunity for you to speak about the whole thing in Calgary and with the flames. And I don't know. I don't know if this was the right channel, I don't know if it's the right venue, I don't even really know exactly what your answer is going to be. So I mean, it's one of those subjects that I don't think anyone wants to touch, but I think it is something that we should touch because there's probably a conversation to be had there. So do you want to share about your time leaving Calgary, what that was about and offer us, or my audience, any type of maybe new information about that?
Speaker 1:Well, you know what. That's a long time ago. 2009 is when it happened and came to light in 2019. So obviously I used inappropriate language. At no point did I use that language directed to an individual. The two sides are going to have two different opinions on what happened. I've never really shared my side. I've done work in the background to make myself better.
Speaker 1:I went on and got a degree online through Cornell University on diversity, equity and inclusion a very, very thorough path that was very enjoyable for me, very educational, very enlightening. I think what's missing in that piece when we talk about diversity is the education part for people to feel comfortable having those hard conversations. I'm no longer in that spot. I probably would have been, you know, at any point in my life until I've undergone this process, but something that I needed to do for myself to understand why I use the language Obviously totally inappropriate, wrong by me. I apologized at the time in the dressing room and have apologized again since and I've learned a lot about it and hopefully, you know, at some point can be, uh, used as a resource so it doesn't happen to others. Obviously it's a fact on on both parties lives and that's unfortunate, but learning experience yeah, and so everyone has.
Speaker 2:you know, as we see, right with when things get said or stuff comes out, everyone has their own opinion. So everyone's going to see this differently. But for me, listening to what you just said and I'm just going to restate that just so, it's clear that you used the word about music, not necessarily to the person specifically. That's accurate, right, that's 100% yeah, and for some people, as you know, right, some people are going to be like, well, you should never use that word and and maybe I I agree with that. I guess you mean, it's definitely been something that in you know, my, my wife and and my, my mom have definitely tried to instill, that you don't, you don't say it, but I do think that there's a different level with that word in that scenario, and and and recognizing now that you should just never say it. I think there's some growth there. It sounds like.
Speaker 1:A hundred, yeah, a hundred percent. That's what it's all about, and it's all about sharing your, your stories and your experiences and coaching. And then that's one for me that obviously I'm not proud of. It's not a positive experience, but if something positive can come out of it for society, that'll be a good thing in the, in the, in the long run.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's um are with players and I think, like I'm generally a second chance guy Actually I'm not generally, I'm almost always a second chance kind of guy Cause I think that there is room for growth but it's, it's one of those things that I'm sure you feel has followed you. I mean you do have a job in the in the Western Hockey League, which is which is awesome. I mean it speaks to obviously you know your growth and obviously your your skill as a coach that that you would be landed there again. But do you, do you find people treating you differently in in any type of circles since that went down?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like people will come up to you and have an opinion on it that you don't know, and they're entitled to their opinion. Everybody is. So you have that interaction. You have a lot of support, a ton of supports, right? People uh, you know, supporting you and people who kind of know you more obviously have have either an opinion, a positive or a negative.
Speaker 1:It's no different than when you talk about a hockey player either you like the player or maybe you don't like the player. You like your skill set, you don't like his skill set. You like how he played in the playoffs, you don't like how he played playoffs, like his skillset, you don't like his skillset, you like how he played in the playoffs, you don't like how he played in the playoffs. Everyone's entitled to an opinion on on every topic. So that's fine. But for me, where I where I can sleep at night is I know what happened, I know the truth. At some point will it ever come out? My side probably will have to come out at some point. Will we ever agree? Probably not, and that's the reality, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that that is, that is the reality, and I guess it is what it is. I just found it interesting, like I don't want to stick on this topic for too long, but Dusty Emu I don't even know if you know him or not, but he was hired as the as a goaltending coach in Toronto, hired paper signed, and then someone got into his Instagram account I know him, I played with him, uh, he was, uh, you know, a goaltending guy in Winnipeg and thereafter, anyways, he liked, liked some posts on Instagram, like about Trump and about um, some random, like not even really important stuff. Didn't post anything himself, didn't? I mean, didn't write anything, and anyways got let go, um, got terminated instantly and uh, and then nobody would want to talk to him about it, like nobody. Like he was like the darling right Cause he was Jack Campbell's a goaltender coach and he had that resurgence there. So everyone loved dusty and that's why he was coming in.
Speaker 2:And then, all of a sudden, this came out his contract wasn't there, and then no one, like his phone never rang, like no one wanted to hear his side of what any of this was. And I just thought, like that's why for me, the motivation to ask you is one for that and I mean to have a real conversation. And two, I do think that the story matters and I think, like the mainstream media, they get scared. It's such a black and white scenario and then they just don't want to touch it and potentially, you've never given been given the opportunity to say anything. I don't know, maybe you have, maybe you haven't, but right it's, maybe it's like a little small podcast like mine that allows you an opportunity to at least say something. So I thought that I'd be doing our us a disservice if I didn't ask um, because it is something that's relevant.
Speaker 1:You mean, it is something that I think there's a lesson there for sure well, and it's going to be, it's going to be a piece of my life, the rest of my life. It's going to obviously be something that I talk about till till. I'm no, no longer able. So it's, it's a, it's a piece of it and I think I, I, I know for a fact the piece, the biggest piece that is missing through the whole, uh, when you talk about marginalized people in any walk of life, is the education piece, and I think that's, you know, that's something that needs to be brought up more and it's no different than land reconciliation in Canada.
Speaker 1:You're a Canadian, I'm a Canadian. It's a big thing and it's a very divisive, divisive, sorry topic and people have wrong opinions on it. But you know, it's the world we live in and you know Dusty's story. Unfortunate, by the sounds of it, you, you know him. You can probably vouch for his character as somebody who knows him, and that was probably I. I'm not aware of the story until just now, but it's probably in the height of cancel culture and that's the reality.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the reality. Um well, I mean thanks for covering that. I mean I don't want to dig in too long. I know we're here to talk about more direct hockey issues. It seems like the things surrounding hockey are becoming much more relevant in today's world, with whatever it is Like, what is the line, I mean, old school versus new school, coaching it even. I think maybe that's a good segue to get into right. Like I know, I played in the nineties. You know there was some. There was a lot of hard coaches. I mean it was hard to play in the WHL, it was. You know there was a lot of stuff that went then. That I think still could happen today, but just doesn't, I think, cause the player wouldn't respond to it. But like, what do you see as the biggest growth and, let's say, the biggest positive side of the growth towards coaching and coaching today's player?
Speaker 1:Well, I think coaches are very adaptable, right, Very smart in in adapting to the changes in the game, Like when's the last time you've seen a Western league game live? Well.
Speaker 2:I went and saw a couple of clients this year, so this year I saw a couple of live games.
Speaker 1:So when you compare that to your rookie year or your 19-year-old season till 2024, 2023, 2024 season. It's a different game, oh way different. It's a way different game and it's a different game to play in. It's a different game to coach in. It's a different game the way it's officiated. The players are different, and not in a bad way, like everyone. Uh, you know, everyone rails on the younger people and it's not the case. There's great people.
Speaker 1:The group that I got to coach last season were fantastic young men. They enjoyed it, they're, they keep you young, they're fantastic and they're eager to learn. Now is there a lot going on in their lives that complicates things for them? Yes, there is, and you can't change that as a coach, and it's unfortunate. The coach probably used to have a little bit more control. Now you've got a, an agent or an advisor or a parent or or whatever it may be. There's always voices, you know, in the background, and when they don't align with the voice that the coach has, then the player's conflicted unless he can cut through that right, and I just think there's more voices now. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, probably it's not perfect. The guys that are mentally strong and have good self-awareness, they can get through that. The ones that have never heard no, or maybe looking for an easier way, they struggle with it.
Speaker 1:Right, and it's your policy and I don't know how it was in your career at different levels obviously, and you've got a unique situation too. My son was made me aware that there's a player in the BCHL that's getting exceptional status, is going to play at 15. And I believe you did that in Penticton at 15. Yeah, Not easy to do, yeah.
Speaker 2:Not easy. Yeah, I know no-transcript.
Speaker 1:It's not an automatic yes, it's just because they have an idea. It's not yes, and we'll be able to say yes or no and we'll we will ask why, why do you that? Why do you want the bus to leave earlier or later? And then we'll say no, no, we can't, because we already have this, this and this set up and we have a team function on the way to this game. We're stopping in a small town, we're doing a community event, so no, we can't make the change. So there's a reason why it's no. It's just not no to be an ass. It's no because we've got everything planned out and we can't make the adjustment.
Speaker 1:Or, hey guys, I want you guys to pick the departure time here. We've got all day. We we play in the afternoon. We're going to go up the night before. How do you want the day to look? How do you want to? What time you want to practice? You guys want to have a meal post practice. You want to eat on the road. Are you going to be able to make it? Let's fictionally say, red deer, can you get to lethbridge and red deer and have a nice meal at the hotel, or do we need to stop and eat.
Speaker 1:You have to involve your players. You have to have ownership and buy-in from them. So it's way street in the communication, right? A good video and analytics are big, as you know now, and they're huge and they're great. I love it like you can go down around the hall and spend hours as a coach on analytics.
Speaker 1:Something as simple as asking a player hey, pick three clips from your last game when you get your instat three clips that you like, that you thought you made great plays on, or real solid plays, and three that you're not sure of. Hey, did I do the right thing? What do you want me to do here? A little bit of a gray area. Maybe I didn't talk about it in between periods or on the bench. Nobody gave me any feedback, but you're unsure. Yeah, players and not just, not all of my team, so don't relate this back to last team yeah, they have a hard time doing that. They have a hard time taking the time out, picking six clips, taking the time on the timeline stamp or the clock and coming into you within 48 hours, hopefully the next day, and say, hey, you got a minute. Of course the answer is yes. Can we look at these six clips. Yes, they have a hard time doing that, but that's accountability them taking taking control of their own career also Correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Uh, I, uh, I love that. I mean, I love getting kids involved in it. And I guess my question to you earlier it wasn't necessarily about you saying no, it was more me speaking to athletes, especially in today's hockey. This is what I see, and if you see something different let me know.
Speaker 2:But it's, it's the idea of like, and I would think when they landed the whl, so like their minor hockey career and the way parents have kind of decided to raise kids, whether it's consciously or not, is that there's not a whole lot of adversity generally speaking, right, and if there is adversity, that they try and get in front of it and and they try and clear it.
Speaker 2:You know, so it's so, it's easy, you know, for johnny or jimmy or easier, right, no one wants to see them struggle to go through stuff now at the WHL level like they might not be on that line they want, or they might be in and out of the lineup and this could be the first time they've been told no, right, you know, I mean that. That's what I was meaning, that, and I think sometimes, like when I get phone calls, it's like how do I help this player be accountable and empowered in that situation and find a way through instead of hiding and going away, you know. So that was kind of where I'm saying like with with the player, like can you speak to that at all?
Speaker 1:I've got you now a little bit better. Yeah, well there's a lot of enabling goes on right in hockey. There's a lot of enabling through, you know, coaches possibly enabling a player not holding them accountable. Parents, uh agents, right agent, maybe you know I thought we got the draft coming up.
Speaker 1:We got some high-end guys, you know, on our team. In my opinion they're going to get drafted. I had a call the other day from a team and wanted to talk about the player as a character, just not about the hockey. They've had multiple viewings, they know what he is as a hockey player and we were talking about the character and everything else and it was all good, all good and the guy goes. Yeah, you know, I'm player development. I went and seen a player and I was really disappointed in his game and I shared that opinion of his game and the guy was shocked he goes. Well, I was excited to that. You were at my game and you were here to see me play but I didn't think you were gonna come at me like
Speaker 1:this and the guy goes. Well, he goes. What did you think? Like you didn't play very well and he didn't compete very hard and you lost a lot of puck battles. And he just said you weren't very good right, and he and the player was shocked. And he and and the guy goes like pete, you've been in the national league a long time like what am I supposed to do there? This guy's relatively young in player development. I said I said you got a two of you believes, right, but it's different. And he was a hard guy, he made a living in hard right and he probably first impression of this player wasn't good.
Speaker 1:Now, does that sink the player? No, it doesn't. But does that wake the player up? Hopefully, yes. It's no different than when you talk to players. Sometimes you go, hey, do you want to know if somebody's in to see a player or you don't.
Speaker 1:And at this level, at the Western Hockey League level, major junior level, let's know, because they're there all the time. Scouts are there all the time. They might be there to see back in your draft year. They might be there to see you play, but all of a sudden somebody else pops in that game and all of a sudden boom. Now that guy's on the radar. So it's just an unbelievable opportunity. Each and every night, each and every night, you're trying out, like when we were in the American League. My, you know it was great and and the GM had a great philosophy. He's going, man, he says you're not just trying out at the time, there's 30 teams in the league. You're not just trying out for one team, for all 30. There's 29 other teams watching you all the time. So it's a great opportunity for the athletes yeah, no, it totally is a great league.
Speaker 2:It's a great league to get recognized and to show that. I actually had london hoylet on um a couple, couple, uh, episodes ago. He's a client that I've been working with in the last season and his story was awesome because he went from undrafted unlisted to a camp invite, makes the team in his draft year and all. All of a sudden now he's a WHL guy that NHL scouts are writing reports on. You know like what a what a huge turnaround.
Speaker 1:And a good young, good young player and a talent and plays hard and he's got some skills off the ice. I read a nice article about him. I think he's in in the music and he sounds like a wonderful young man.
Speaker 2:no-transcript right now is like what's your engine like and what are you prepared to do to go get that puck? With the skill level being so high, I think that that's potentially falling off a little bit and it's a great way to make an impression.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with you. Like skating used to be, you know, the skating wasn't as good across the board throughout hockey. Now everybody can skate. The big guys skate good. You know everybody skates good. They can stay at home D they can still get up in the rush. They're more defensive minded per se, but they can still skate well. There's nobody to take advantage of in that regard. So where's the advantage going to come? Where's the small margin going to come that separates you from the next player or separates your team from the team you're playing against? You're looking for those margins, and they're hard to find, but to compete is one that is very important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, can you. Can you describe I have my own way of describing it, because I try and differentiate when I'm working with players or even when I'm coaching my own teams like the difference between effort, like hard work, old-fashioned hard work and compete, and I think some people think they're the same thing. I don't particularly, but can you give me what your definition would be between the two of?
Speaker 1:them. Yeah well, you know know, guys, you used to be able to fake it by pumping your arms and your legs and not going anywhere you know, that one, yeah, a lot of.
Speaker 1:he's a high effort engine guy but he's not going all right. The compete is when you, when you do something that's kind of out of your, out of your skill set or out of your character in order to make a successful play. Like you know, you as a winger, you probably played a little bit of center and then as a kid and then mainly wing as a pro yeah, I'd be able to say that you probably didn't love the puck being rimmed in the d zone. Certain teams, other teams don't, some teams pinch religiously down the wall and so like, for me as a coach, like I'm sitting there and going, okay, like you, just as a d-man, maybe you're just passing your problems off, but what do you really want that winger to do with it? Like, what do you want him to do with that puck in that scenario? Right? So for me it's okay.
Speaker 1:Like you've seen drys idling game seven blocking a shot. He's seen McDavid, you know, turn his skate sideways and take one off the ankle. He's probably not wearing shot blockers the guys on the PK probably are, so but he knew, right, okay, hey, I don't remember the score at the time, maybe it's three, two, but he's going. I got to put my body on the line here, and away we go. So it's that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's you. I say it's like that extra inch sometimes right, like you can work hard on the back check and maybe you get to your guy but you don't get to the front side of his hip and get into that defensive positioning, you know so, like you've worked hard to get there but you haven't competed to get to those last six inches. You know, like, I think those the areas are like the first effort I I call guys on right like that first effort for the puck battle is one thing, but then what happens if you lose that initial effort? Like, is there a second effort or a third effort, right? And I think like that's where it's outside of maybe the normal hard work scenario, and I think that's where you can separate yourself too of like a guy in the crowd or or trying to get the coach's favor. I think those, those things stand out to us.
Speaker 1:Well, in the end they do. And then, in the end, that's what's going to separate you as a player and allow you to continue to go to a higher level and to the next level, and you're going to earn trust. You're going to earn trust of your teammates and of your coaching staff and all of a sudden, you're going to get more ice time and something productive, and the team's going to start to win and all sudden, you're staying in the lineup. You're winning, you're playing, you're feeling good, you have confidence and it's on a roll. That's how it goes right where the other guy say there's a guy, unless he's used pk, he was a penalty killer and for some reason he went out twice in a row and they got lit up 15 seconds in and he loses that opportunity. The next guy goes and they go clean sheet for four games in a row.
Speaker 1:Well, the coach is either going to put the guy back in who was, you know, part of two goals against, or he's going to go with the guy who's getting it done, and a lot of that's going to depend on the level you coach at the ages and the time of year yeah, all the time of year is important too, like early in the year, you're going to get a lot of opportunities, a lot of rope, and you got to take advantage of that and be successful as a player, because when it comes down to the end and they go, okay, hey, we're going to go down to six penalty killers up front and three maybe, or four or three maybe on the back, and you want to be a part of that team within the team, those six penalty killers and there's only 60 and there's 12 you addressed. Yeah, right, so you know, you gotta. You gotta do the math, you gotta be realistic and you gotta be able to count numbers and do what it takes to to earn your ice time.
Speaker 2:Yeah no, I love that, um, and that's the way players got to think, like, I said that to my 14 year old son the other day, right, so he just got drafted, as you know. You congratulated him on that and um 89th to camelos in the fourth round. But there was five guys for camels drafted ahead of him, right. So he was all excited and I let it sink in and I was like you know what, buddy, there's a left winger that got drafted like 20 picks before you from them. That's your position. So I'm like he's ahead of you on the depth chart right now. Yeah and uh, and I'm like that that's who you're trying to be, you know. And I'm like, yeah, you're going to be teammates with these guys and you're going to have that. You're going to make great friends with them, but like that's how the world works from here on out, like you're trying to jump the depth chart and um, but I don't think guys think like that, what's that?
Speaker 2:you're not teammates yet yeah, and you're not teammates yet you go to camp.
Speaker 1:You are competing, you are, you are competing, you are competing, you are competing. You are teammates to a certain degree, but you are competing for the opportunity to wear that jersey, moving forward and staying on that 50 man list and everything else.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Better than this is each and every day. That's the reality Like I look at it. I look at it right now Like it's funny, we have a. I have another call this afternoon about setting up training camp and we're going to change the way we do training camp to a bit of a, I think, a more modern version. Our assistant GM, matt Anhole, was all over it in season and I agree with the changes we're going to make.
Speaker 1:But you think of a power play, podsy? It's four and one, four forwards and one D-man. Now, right, so you do that twice. You got eight forwards involved and you got 2d involved. So now you're gonna have a bump up shift. Say it's a two minute power play, you don't score. Now you need three more forwards to go. So now you've used four twice. So that's eight. You used another three to bump up.
Speaker 1:Say you don't use the power play guys, which I don't think you should. You should use other players. So now you're at 11. How many guys are left doing nothing? Right? So that's two minutes and 45 seconds where that player doesn't play. So now the whistle blows. Now you get a tv timeout. In every league there is now, basically, you get a tv timeout. You're, you're say on the road, you're worried they're going to go trump. So you go trump. So that guy who didn't play on the power play either unit, didn't play on the bump up shift, doesn't play on the next shift. That guy's sitting there, so you can be aware of that as a coach. Now, how am I going to get this player back in the game without losing them mentally? Mentally, is he going to check out on me? Or how do I get this guy going again? That's the art of coaching and that's the fun stuff that you know everyone loves to sit around and talk about yeah, no, I love the, the bench boss stuff.
Speaker 2:There's so many aspects of coaching that I that I find quite fascinating. You know, like there's the, there's the x and o size, there's the, there's the bench management side. There's a recognizing in game like your, your decisions in game, not only with your own team, like who's going, who's not. Um, and that for one.
Speaker 2:Just I'll just go off the rails here, like that would rattle me so much, like when I knew I was going in a game yeah and like I think it's apparent, like too, by how my first couple shifts go and and and then you're just not, like you're not getting anything else. You mean like there's 80 games, you're right, like you want to go like if you're a horse and you're going like god. I just wanted to see that.
Speaker 1:But anyway, sometimes that wasn't recognized, um well, you know what people do need to recognize that. And then everyone who's watching this is going to have an opinion, right, but if they can learn something from us on the coaching end of it here and bill peters he's on this show, he's a racist. No, bill peters isn't a racist. But learn this having a have a take on when your team scores or get scored on, I'm of the belief. My opinion is you don't leave those players on the ice. One way or the other. If you've been scored on, you got to get them off the ice because their headspace is elsewhere. They're thinking, whoa, what just happened? Same on the flip side for me at a young age too. And so in the Western Hockey League, if you score, they're celebrating, they're high-fiving, they're coming by the bench and life is good. I get those guys off the ice, no matter how long that shift's been, but no matter how long that shift's been. But I get them right back out next shift because I know their head's not in the right spot. The other team comes out and you've seen it and everybody's seen it watching this podcast. How many times do you see one team score and all of a sudden, the other team scores? Within 15 seconds Happens all the time Because human nature allows you to go. Finally. We've worked so hard. Now we've got that one. Nothing lead and all of a sudden you go oh, we're back to square one. Well, but I would like your.
Speaker 1:What you're saying is if I recognize you got some jump and the fence can't say the J's, so they say yump. If you've got yump, I got to get you out there. I got to double shift you. I got to get you out. You know, I got to know the TV timeouts coming. I got to prior to the TV timeout. Give you the TV timeout, let you start coming out of the TV timeout. That's coaching, right. I've got to get you some extra ice time and if good things are happening for you, all that energy goes right to your legs. Next thing you know you're flying, next thing you know you have a night. That's how it can't just be fair and fun for everyone that everyone gets 15 minutes, four lines times 15. We played 60, we shower, we go home At the higher levels. It's not that way it works.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it isn't that way. I'm just going to take a short break from the podcast to announce the title sponsor for the UMH 68 Invitational, and that is Iron Ghost Construction. Now, iron Ghost is going to be a huge part of this year's event for a couple reasons. I want to share those with you. When I had the idea for UMH 68, bringing the best players in BC together, which again is going to expand to Alberta, saskatchewan and Manitoba, hopefully sooner than later my idea was we need to make this a player first experience. I want the competition to be great. Obviously, we want to make it a best on best type of environment where players from all different leagues, sanctioned and unsanctioned, and all geographic areas can come together for a developmental, competitive and educational weekend. Like that was kind of in a nutshell for me give them something that they leave better people, that they leave better hockey players and the parents are involved in it as well and they also become educated and and get to watch some great hockey. So that was the idea and to make it a player first experience. I I wanted to do some touches, you know, obviously playing in the game. As long as I did, I knew it was cool as a player to walk into a dressing room. I knew it was cool at a tournament. Uh, that made some things different. So I'm trying to incorporate all those things from a player first side. And then, uh, one of my ideas was to obviously try and respect the idea of the hard-earned dollars that go into playing this game.
Speaker 2:Hockey's expensive. I've talked about it tons on this on this podcast, that it is too expensive in a lot of ways. And then when we come to spring hockey, it's almost more expensive than the regular season for a lot of families because you are going to maybe more tournaments than you usually go to. You're invited to more things. You have to decide what to do or what not to do, and the last thing that I wanted was a player that I thought was good enough to come to this event, that earned himself an invitation to come, yet mom or dad weren't able to afford it financially. Mom or dad weren't able to afford it financially. Now, obviously there's some gradations there and and and you know every everyone's situation is different, but I didn't want finances to be a reason why why families couldn't go.
Speaker 2:So when I approached uh, iron Ghost Construction and uh and Trevor McKeachney uh, I was. I was like hey, I know you're involved in hockey, I know you love giving back, I know this is where your roots were. This is my idea and this is what I want to do. I want to have a scholarship for parents that say that they can't make it, to reduce the fees. And you know, would you want to put Iron Ghost behind that? And he said, yeah, 100%. So that's the type of guy Trevor is. So that's what we're offering here at the UMH.
Speaker 2:68, too, is a graduated level of support for a scholarship. On the registration fees, I feel that the registration fee in and of itself is like the greatest value in the business, as it is for what you get the five games, full-length games, stop time, two ice cleans every game, the three different workshops, the player banquet, the practice the list goes on and on. But then to further offer, even though the value is there, to further be able to offer a reduction in those fees to families that need it, I don't know. I think that's an important aspect and without people like Iron Ghost Construction and Trevor, the owner and founder, you mean these types of things can't be offered.
Speaker 2:So if you're wondering what Iron Ghost is, iron Ghost has been incorporated since 2012 and has grown to be recognized as a top contractor in multiple industries, such as oil and gas, forestry and agriculture. From building turnkey production facilities that produce canola oil, biosteel condensate and oil to keep up with the industry changes in forestry, where new technology and equipment are replacing that of the past. Ironghost specializes in the main structures, with a large employment of iron workers, crane operators and millwrights. Iron Grost has successfully completed projects in BC, alberta and Saskatchewan. So if you are looking for a contractor to build your structure and you're in the oil, gas, biodiesel, canola oil, forestry industry and you have a heart for hockey, who's been involved in it? Uh, right from the ground up.
Speaker 2:You know trevor was a stick boy for the vernon lakers back in the day and then has been around hockey is his whole, his whole younger life. His son now plays and he's bringing that to the next generation. Uh, what a better guy to do business with, um, I think so. Iron ghost construction is doing great things for the UMH 68 and hockey here locally in Vernon and if you are somebody that's a decision maker in one of those industries, definitely throw Iron Ghost into the mix as somebody that you would think to. You can contact Trevor directly at 778-212-2663 or you can visit the website at wwwironghostca for more details. Now let's get back to the conversation with Bill Peters.
Speaker 2:I was still thinking from your comment about like 90s hockey to now. I'm going to offer up one for you and I'd like you to to give your opinion. It rattled me so bad it was. Now it was two seasons ago. I was watching my old alma mater, spokane. Um, they were I mean, they were struggling that year. They didn't have a great team, uh, but they were in, they were in colonna and they were down like I don't know. I think it was like six or seven right in the second, in the second period and it honestly looked to me like no one gave a rat's ass about it, yeah, and like I'm not saying like, yeah, okay, in our day there probably would have been quite a few fights right, there probably would have been whatever, there had been some type of a statement.
Speaker 2:But I was trying to watch, like in this era, like what that looks like now, because you know there isn't line brawls anymore, right, it doesn't happen. But like, what is the pushback? Or what does that look like when, when you are getting embarrassed, and I just didn't see it and I don't know if that was specific to spokane. And then I had a conversation with one of my other hockey buddies who had a kid in the league who was playing for victoria at the time, who also wasn't very good, and he said it was kind of the same thing, like you know, mean, a blowout at home didn't really matter. He was trying to teach his kids something else and he was kind of getting around it. But like do you, like I don't know, like, what do you do now if your team's getting blown out? What is that message? What do you want your players to respond to that? What does that look like?
Speaker 1:Well, it looks messy Like you watched it. It's messy, right Like it's, and it's a little bit, and not to talk about the team you referenced, but any team. That's where the compete and the character of your people come in. Right, it's okay enough. At some point we've got to dig in enough. We've got to push back. It's the pushback. How do you push back in the modern game?
Speaker 1:And you know just okay, we're overmatched tonight, whatever. Maybe we're playing three and three. They match tonight, whatever. Maybe we're playing three and three. They played friday, sunday. They're fresh, they got good legs, we're beat up. I don't know what, what, what led to this issue, but we got an issue. We're getting all played out worked.
Speaker 1:That's where you hope your guys have enough personal pride and I don't want to say professional pride, because they're not professionals but personal pride to, okay, dig in. It's not going to stop unless we make it stop. We've got to do something on our own right. You know, back in the day, the response in the dressing room. You know how that would look. That doesn't look the same way today and that's not a bad thing. But when you have the right guys in the room, that you know, one or two guys are going to be able to step up and stem the tide a little bit, maybe, and then the rest of the guys are going to dig in and follow. But that that's where it comes down to pride of just man. Let's just our line, let's go out and win a shift and then you guys follow it up and let's. Let's put an end to this. But those are tough nights and we've all been on them both sides, and it's tough when you're on the other side too, right?
Speaker 2:When you're talking about the evolution of coaching, like the message probably you know 20 years ago, when you were coaching, the Chiefs would have been different. I would assume in a blowout scenario, like in the room, like, whatever your challenge would be, would probably be directed differently than it is now.
Speaker 1:I would guess, like do you find yourself is it a natural evolution to how you approach? Like a dressing room speech? Now, Well, you can, yeah, everything changes, and you can put it on them too. Guys, Like you just go in and you can just say, hey, obviously this isn't good enough. What are we going to do to change? I want you guys to talk about three things. I'm going to come back in the seven minute mark. You tell me the three things we're going to change. I'll look for them on the ice and then I'll try and get through this. Like there's there's nights where you just don't have it, but there's other nights too where you don't have it. But you dig in and you hang in there and your goal turner stands on his head and next thing you know you look up, there's 10 minutes to go, You're within one, You're going. Shit, we knew this Right.
Speaker 1:So even competitive people like that's it's a great operator. Hockey sense skating was the number one. He used to be able to tell the guys that could get around the track and the guys that couldn't, that's closed. That gap is really, really narrowed. Still there's some differences, but not as much as there used to be. And then now you're sitting there, okay, who's gonna compete? Who's gonna compete? And when the lights? When that scoreboard gets turned on and the lights come on, you want guys to get jazzed up a little bit. When that scoreboard gets plugged in and the lights come on, you want guys to get jazzed up a little bit. When that scoreboard gets plugged in and nobody, there's no bump. The guy's the same. That's a problem.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, yeah, I love, uh, I love competitive players and sometimes that like that can spill over as especially when they're younger as potentially selfish, maybe emotionally immature, right, Because you don't handle things great, right, like if, if things aren't going, um, but boy, I like the fire, like I'd rather have the fire and deal with that, you know, deal, deal with, help them, deal with that, that emotional management side of it, so they can use it as fuel and help and help that. Help them and help them, help the team, as opposed to just having a flatline, you know solemn, you know, guy, like I'd rather have a few more fire sticks in the room than than not.
Speaker 1:Well, what's the old line and you would have heard it from some of the guys that coached you, because I hear it from them and we have cross paths in Spokane I'd rather tame a tiger than paint stripes on a kitty cat. Right, they're a little bit too right, but too right Like there's a little bit of that, like you know, and you know on the other end of it too right, like when your team's not as competitive as you'd like, you know that right, and then it's hard, it's losing wears on people right in the pro game. Like you look at you know some teams. You know they have a different plan. You know maybe there are, maybe there are some players that they'd like to draft early and if you win you can't draft them. So you got to go through the pain of finishing where you have to finish to get these elite players. But that's fine. That's a real tough, tough thing mentally and that's where you need people that work on their mental game and the mental aspect to stay with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do people that work on their mental game and the mental aspect to stay with it? Yeah, do you feel that's a piece of of a coach's hat now, like, do you feel responsible in some aspect for that personal development of the mental game or is that for them to try and figure out or with some support from somewhere else?
Speaker 1:No, you need. You need to hopefully, hopefully, get buy-in, like suggest, and you maybe suggest to a player that, hey, you know what, through your agency or through your advisor, maybe, maybe hooking up with a, an adv, somebody with mental health or mental skills, can help you within that department. You know you were part of it, right, like we the. The brain is a muscle too, right, it could be worked. So, yeah, no, you wanna. Our job is to try and max out potential. Everyone's got a different level of potential, like when you have 20, 20 players in your room getting dressed, there's there's different levels of potential throughout that room and everybody brings a little bit something different to the to the equation. But you want everyone to max out their potential and their career. That's what you're trying to do. You're trying to help people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that if that is the underlying theme of, like the culture you know, everyone talks about culture and I think it's kind of overused and some people use it in different ways but like that piece, like if I was in your chair, if I was a, if I was a GM, like that would be what I'd want the mindset, the collective mindset of the group to be on an individual level and as and as a group level, is how are you getting better and how are we getting better collectively?
Speaker 2:And if that's like the ultimate goal, like I think that the wins and the losses, like that's all going to flesh itself out. I mean, if we do that piece well and there's a, there's a process to being your best and to extract that right, Like there's no, you can't think it. I mean you have to, it has to be actionable, it has to be an environmental thing, it has to be competitive, there has to be the right people in the room for it to happen right, the leadership has to be there and I just I get I kind of geek out on that stuff because I think when you get that right, that's when the championships start to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they do, and any team that you've been involved with. Or when you look back, for me it's the character of the individuals when your team surpasses expectations or maxes out potential or wins the championship. In the end you've got the right guys in the room and they're accepting. They're accepting of roles and they flourish in their role, looking for more and if you can give them more, then you give them more. But sometimes there just isn't more right, like like when you, when you have a power play unit and it's four in one, there's five guys that are going to be happy and there's everybody else. Okay, who's next? Then you got the next group going and then you got everybody else and out of that everybody else group, some of those guys believe they should be out there. Well, they can't all be out there. Like I'm a big multi-sport guy, I have friends that coach in the ncaa high-end division, one programs go to the final four sweet 16, 88, all. Yeah, gonzaga would be a comparison people would think of, naturally, just because my time in spokane and Mark Fu and Leon Rice and all those guys, and one time and it wasn't Fuey, because everyone always said, oh, he's talking about this or that no, it wasn't Fuey, I was talking to a high-end basketball coach and one time he goes coach, he goes. It's not the X's and O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's. He goes. They're jumping out of the couldn't keep up physically. It wasn't X's and O's.
Speaker 1:We had a good plan. The kids executed the plan. We got to the level we got to the tournament. It was in the NCAA tournament. We got as deep into the tournament as we could. We had a fantastic year, won our conference, but at the end it was the athletes right. So you, as an athlete if any athletes listen, and I'm sure they do take ownership of your career. Take ownership of your career like I, I say to my guys okay, who's in your workout group in the off season? When you go home to vernon, when you're a kid growing up, or you go to vancouver, you go wherever you go, you go home. Who's in your workout group? No, x, y and z. Oh, where do they play? Well, this guy plays. This guy's a baseball player. This guy doesn't play hockey, this guy is. You know, wherever he plays. Okay, who's the hardest working guy in that group?
Speaker 1:and and they answer the question. So let's say it's me and you and a bunch of guys and I go it's kevin sawyer. Kevin sawyer's a horse working guy, me as a coach. Why? I look at that athlete and go why isn't it you? Why aren't you the hardest working guy in that off-season group? You can. That takes no skill, that's nothing. You're doing the same workout. Why can't you outwork that guy? Right, why, why aren't you like? And zero times have I recently got the answer me like. But when a guy is the hardest working guy, he's got no problem telling you Right, not. Not enough for me, did I hear? I'm the hardest working guy. I set the tone in our group. That's what I want to hear. Right, I'm humble to answer it that way, but that's what I want to hear.
Speaker 2:I'm humble to answer it that way, but that's what I want to hear. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head there. That's one of the things when I'm approaching teams or I work with teams and I talk about effort as a controllable, and it's one of the big five, it's one of the ones you said that takes no skill, recognizing that for younger athletes, that this is something that is completely within your control, like I can't make you do it, your mom and dad can't stop you from doing it. Like it's all on you, right, and where is your standard with that? And, generally speaking, like if you go to a let's say you go to a junior hockey room, right, like your team, for instance, or whoever's team, and I go in there, who's a hard worker, who thinks that they're a hard worker in here of them, is going to stand up, like usually in a team, right, yeah, then if I say, well, and, but who is the hardest worker? Who are the top three hardest workers?
Speaker 2:Now that changes the discussion, right? So it's like you can classify yourself in this scenario like yeah, no, I'm not lazy, because to be a whl player you're probably not right. Like you're probably a hard worker. But in that funnel and in that way of like the, the separation, separation and and and the evaluation and the peak potential, like how do you reach your potential If you're not in that top three quadrant in your team, on a WHL team, you're probably not going anywhere. Like it's almost that simple sometimes, unless you're immensely skilled Right, and not many guys are that skilled. So like isn't that? Like, isn't that crazy. Like that's the recipe, like that's it almost right there.
Speaker 1:Well, it's hard to it's hard to stand out. It's hard to get a group, an elite group of 40 out on the ice together and stand out in that group of 40. Like, these guys are all good, but who was good today?
Speaker 1:I love asking my coaches and management, who's ever around? What'd you like today day? Who's good today, who's the best forward? And it should be. To me it should be boom.
Speaker 1:Somebody should have done something that grabbed your eye. Somebody should have went bar down twice. Somebody should have caught somebody on a reload and stripped the puck, turned it and they scored two on one. Somebody should have done something that stood out. That makes them pop.
Speaker 1:And I ask all the time and I hopefully I'd like it when there's more than one answer, because that means at least two or three or four guys had good dates right. Instead, if it's always the same player, well then you want some other guys in that, in that situation too. And then there's nights, there's practices, where you know how you get too many practices in a row and they kind of fall off sometimes and then you got nobody. You're gonna, we just slog through it. Well, that should have been a situation where somebody else should have shone that maybe doesn't always shine, or a younger guy should have had a great day for whatever reason, right.
Speaker 1:So that communication is important. And even going up to a player, you know how, how are you today? Just that simple question. Like the guys that worked hard. You know I was good today, I thought I had a good day, and then they'll. They'll look at you and go well, what'd you think I go? No, I agree, you agree, thanks, like we're not. We're not saying we're not, we're just, you know, having small communication because you want to touch on everybody every day. You want to try and talk to everybody every day in the modern era, right?
Speaker 2:You don't want. That reinforces. I thing, uh, that that I, when I started working with it, with athletes, I say, by the time of, by the time we've stopped working, I'm going to guarantee you this You're going to know a lot more about yourself, so your self-awareness piece is going to increase exponentially and with that you're able to do things with it right. Like if, if you don't have the ability as a hockey player to reflect on your practice, your workout, your game, objectively, honestly, unbiasedly, you're already lost, right, because now you're just, you're just going about on this automatic kind of process. But if you can break it down into your question, how were you today and actually have a real answer? Like that, there's power in that, like a lot of power in that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, there's for sure there is, and a lot of times it's just a way to get communication going or at the end, practice is done. You got forwards and one end D and the other, you got split groups and you haven't talked to a guy much. You just zip by and hey, I'll school today and maybe the guy skipped and you weren't aware yet. And so he has, oh he's going, he knows.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know. I'm just trying to so I can get to talk to you, right? So but talk to each other. Coaches to the players, coaches to the coaches get on the same page. Those are the teams that are dangerous, those are the players that are dangerous.
Speaker 1:Hey, you make a play. You look me off 17 times in a row on a two-on-one. Okay, I get it. You don't want to give me the puck. I'm on my strong side. You don't think I'm going to finish this two-on-one.
Speaker 1:But have that conversation right. Like, have conversations amongst your peers. You know the older guys in the Western Hockey League and in the National League and in the American League. They can teach you some things. Be accept I don't want to say be coachable, because that's to the coach Be accountable to learning, learning, be open to learning. You don't have all the answers. I don't have all the answers, you don't have all the answers, but we want to work towards eliminating some of the things that we don't know so we can help others. That's what we want to do, like when we go through podsy and I'm.
Speaker 1:I was typing today and I'm a terrible typist on the and I'm sending out email. Terrible because just not good at it, but I was grinding through it and I got it out. I sent it out and have a call with our staff this afternoon. The amount of time I spent on that document isn't what's important. What's in that document's important because out of that document this afternoon is going to come conversation. We're changing our camp. We are changing our camp. We're not having the red white game on the sunday. We're having four straight days in. We're having two days and and they're not to bury guys the the second part of the two days. You know, you saw we scrimmaged at camp and it was what, what did you think of that? Like the scrimmages weren't very good, were they?
Speaker 2:well, I mean that. That's where you were evaluated, though, right, so I mean that I mean that was.
Speaker 1:But that's not where we're evaluating you. We already know who you are. We already know who our guys coming back are. Right. We're going to practice Two groups. I'm not going to give it all up, but we're going to practice separate groups an hour a day. We're going to spend a good session with our strength coach, both on technique, learning proper technique, on lifts, doing some core, doing some stuff. We're going to come back and we're going to have a 45 minute skill session with our skills coach.
Speaker 1:Now the first one, prior to the scrimmage, has to be a little bit lower key because we don't want to wreck the ice. Then we're going to have a scrimmage. Then the second group's going to have a skill session. Your evaluation is going to be in the practice, in that one where there, where there's compete, there's battle, there's one-on-one, there's two-on-two, there's pace. You know how those it's just it's. I love it, I'd be right. But I think we're on to something where we think that the scrimmages at those types of camps are a little bit of a glorified continuation of summer hockey.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, of summer hockey, right yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, I think that's very valid. I do think, probably from the last time I was in a camp, especially the whl level, that it's a little different too, like a lot of these guys, I think for the most part, know that they're supposed to be there, or like they have to play their way out of a job instead of into a job a lot of the times right. So I I think that there's probably a little different. Um, you know pretense behind them too, so you guys can probably get right into it, you know with, with who you have, and keep going maybe I'm gonna speak to that go ahead practice with a player when I'm on the ice.
Speaker 1:I'm going on the ice day one I think it's a thursday. I'm going on the ice day one. So I'm gonna have a minimum four hours of practice with a guy instead of watching them play. So if you played a 60 minute straight time period or a game sorry, you've got 15 minutes of ice time. I don't know how many puck touches you're going to get in 15 minutes. I can guarantee you're going to get a lot of puck touches in a one hour practice. I'm going to. I'm going to know you better as a player via practice than I am the scrimmage yeah, yeah, no, that's that's true.
Speaker 2:Um, there is that fine, though, too. Like when I watch, now, minor hockey and like some of these minor hockey scenarios will have like just skill sessions as part of the evaluation and not much scrimmage, and I'm like I've just seen way too many kids that can go around pylons and don't have any clue how to play the game. From a conceptual standpoint, you know it's like you need you definitely need that scrimmage there somewhere, and I know you guys are keeping it, but I just um, it's kind of interesting, with all this skill development now that's going on, that the actual, like creativity and play um sometimes gets left behind.
Speaker 1:I see, I think yeah, the ability to connect the dots and play the team game and given goal and the best things. I can tell you when, when, when push comes to shove and you're evaluating players and you're talking about players and games, just ask yourself as an athlete, as a player, who has the puck when I'm done with it? Who has the puck when I'm done with it? It's a great question, right, because there's going to be times you have to dump it in. There's times you're hemmed into the D zone, you get the red line, you dump it in. That's a great play. And you execute a line. I've got you breaking up the middle wide open. I put it behind you, I turn it over, they counter, that's on me. So who has the puck when I'm done with it? As a D-man, who has it when I'm done with it? You've seen the first goal, I believe, in game seven in the Euler-Vancouver series was off an icing no change, right, or they got half-iced. I think it was an icing no change or no. It was a fourth line change. Edmonton's fourth line was out there rolling. They cycled the puck. All of a sudden Hyman gets out, mcdavid gets out. All of a sudden it's 1-0. That's a shift by that fourth line. That's a shift by those guys. Man, that's fantastic hockey, right.
Speaker 1:So those types with it, they were able to actually line change in the offensive zone to get fresh guys out against tired guys. That's got to be talked about in video and it is. And it is kids have to. Okay, so that you know, sam carrick was probably out there, connor brown was probably out there. Um, they don't get a point, they don't show up on the score sheet, but that decision making that they had and the ability to know when to change in the offensive zone. Kids don't want to believe me, but you should, because give the next guy over the board something good to work with and then when you boards and you have something good to work with, now you're rolling, Now you're playing the right way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I think I mean that applies to everyone on the ice, but I think it's even specifically, I love that for D-men in their own zone, because you get rid of that, you know, get rid of my problems, you know, and like just dump it around the boards or dump it wherever right. You see guys like that that don't want the puck and their touch is a completely meaningless touch. But the guys that have exits whether it's like a one-man exit, okay, that's fine, whether it's to somebody else who can now make a play to the center, or whether it's a, you know, reverse to his D-man, whatever that is, if the puck somehow ends out of the zone because of your involvement with it, like that's a, that's a huge checkbox, I think, for for D-man. And I tell D-man even, like right now at 14, when I have kids, I'm like if you can do that, like eight to nine, 10 times out of 10, like you can play almost forever, that's all you got to do.
Speaker 1:You're going to play a long time at a high level if you can do that.
Speaker 2:Right Like. I mean, it's that simple.
Speaker 1:The hardest thing to do in hockey, I believe, is there's a lot of good D-men, puck-moving D-men and people. When you hear puck-moving D-men, think undersized 5'10" guys who scoot. No, there's a lot of those guys, but you can be petrangelo and be a puck moving D. So when you go back on a puck and you're looking up ice, you're able to get looking up ice. They're going to make a play all the time because they see everything.
Speaker 1:Well, when your back's turned and you've got to go back and retrieve a puck under forecheck pressure and put it in a better spot or eat it, and they play the big minute because they don't give it away, they don't turn it over, they don't turn it over in the D zone. It doesn't lead to easy offense.
Speaker 2:I love that. That's a clip right there for sure. As far as for teaching and I love breaking it down for players like that, because that's a microcosm of the game and if you can just self-evaluate again, what's your awareness of your game in that scenario when you leave the rink? Right Like, did you do that well? And if you didn't like, what can you work on in practice the next day to get better at it? Right, like, just continue to mold that, because that's it's not about skating the puck past people and shooting the puck going wide. You know, like some of these defenses, they want to be holding it all the time. It's like that piece of the game can separate you right now at any level.
Speaker 1:Well, the guys who get it earlier and learn it younger are the guys that possibly are used to the one man breakout to beat the first guy with their skating and then they beat the second or third or both with the pass. So they don't. They don't skate it from underneath the one net over to the far blue. Now, it's not, you're playing slow in that scenario. Yeah, you beat the first guy with your skates and with your skating ability and then you beat the next guy, or possibly two. When you can trap two guys with a pass, you've done your job. Yeah, now you're getting up.
Speaker 2:I was playing that. I love that. I know what you mean. But when you say playing slow, like to to to a to a teenage defenseman right Now, why is skating the puck in in through the or through the neutral zone from your own end? Why is that playing slow?
Speaker 1:Well, because you've got everybody else stopped and there's no puck speed. There's three ways to have speed in the game. There's foot speed, puck speed and gap speed. So when teams are gapped up and give you no room, and all of a sudden they turn it over and they head man the puck and they get it in the hands of the skill guys, the forwards, and then you have the fourth man's ice, the deactivated. You're playing fast, the puck's moving, you're jumping, you've got a triple drive, you've got a middle drive dot lane drive and a D-man in the fourth man's ice.
Speaker 1:You're playing fast, you're relentless, you're wearing people out. There's not one guy getting it tight. Turn packing it up the wall getting it run himself out of room.
Speaker 1:And then you know the guy who sometimes runs it underneath the hash marks. They don't have anything. Then they rim it in the offensive zone to nobody. That's not playing the game the way the game's meant to be played. The game's meant to head man the puck and join the rush and get in the rush and fill a lane. You can be as a D-man, you can be the puck carrier, you can be the middle driver, you can be the dot lane driver you can be the fourth man's ice.
Speaker 2:You can be anything. Pick, pick the right spot to do it. That's playing. Yeah, I agree, when I, when I'm talking with, with, with players, one of the ways I frame it is like did you make someone better on that? Shift Right Like cause, because it's good? You can be a really good individual player, but if everyone's watching you the entire time you're on the ice, you're not really a great player Like, you're just a good individual player. How are you making people better? Usually, when a D-man is skating that puck through the neutral zone first, across the blue line to your point, generally speaking, most guys have stopped by that side because the forwards are usually in front of them now waiting. Now it's a single rush, it's a one-on-two and that play is kind of dead eventually.
Speaker 1:You can individually be skating fast, but your team is playing slow. Yeah, yeah. I love that In the overall scheme of the game you're playing slow, Great point.
Speaker 2:Take a short break to recognize some of the great things happening here in Vernon. Uh, for the UMH 68 Invitational this is my best of BCc event, uh that I'm hosting for the 2011 age group. That'll run here june 6th to 9th and players are coming from all across the province. It's super exciting. I'm really excited to host it. Uh, but to pull off something of such magnitude, you need help. You know you need people that want to get involved and want to support, and this break here is to acknowledge Nick Routon of C2 One Realty, who is participating in the UMH 68 by sponsoring the GameStar Awards. So this was an idea that I had about how to make this event different and how to make this event memorable and special for the players and really make this a player first experience and, with the game stars, I decided, instead of doing, you know, the traditional MVP or the hardened hustle and and you know, give somebody a hat or a medal or whatever it is a t-shirt or a blanket that usually gets handed out here I'm like what would actually mean something to the player and potentially, maybe even to the parents? And I was like, why don't we actually give them cash or money to go to a sports store and they can feel like they've earned their ability to buy whatever they want. You know what I mean. Not whatever they want, I guess, but within the realms of the GC. So that is where I approach Nick.
Speaker 2:I know that Nick is always somebody that wants to get involved in community events. He's somebody that supports local sports. I know that he is a fan of hockey and I said here's my idea Would you want to be one of the sponsors of this event? You could sponsor the three-star awards. You want to be one of the sponsors of this event? You could sponsor the three-star awards. And he said yeah, that's what he wants to do. So now, at the 2011 event, if you win first star of a game and there's 10 games you will win a $50 gift card, courtesy of Nick Routon and Century 21 Realty, to the local sports store here, source for Sports in Vernon, so that player can walk in with his 50 bucks Maybe he wins more than one and he can buy his player gloves that he purchased on his own, or he can buy the tape, or he can buy whatever it is that he wants within that sports store. So, yeah, $50 for first place, $40 for second star and $30 for third star Super cool. And yeah, I just want to give a shout out to Nick and, as far as Nick goes, I mean he's a realtor here in town, locally, handles all of the Okanagan.
Speaker 2:So I know this listenership goes outside of Vernon. I know there's a lot of people here in Western Canada that listen to this, and even in the States and the Okanagan is, you know, if you haven't been here, I'm sure you've heard about it. If you haven't heard about it, you need to check it out because it is really, uh, the number one really summer destination in all of canada, or one of, uh, definitely one of the highest. You know retirement areas, like where people want to, you know, retire when, when they're all said and done, um, so a lot of recreation property here. It's a great place to call home and to raise a family, like I have done.
Speaker 2:So if you're interested at all in coming to anywhere in the Okanagan or you don't have a realtor and you are local here in the Okanagan, nick is somebody that you should be looking out for. He is somebody that is involved in hockey. He's actually coached my own son, gunnar Phenomenal with the kids. He's phenomenal with his planning and with his attention to detail and really handles his hockey teams like he handles his real estate agents. I've worked with Nick personally and he does a great job. He sets a plan, he puts what you want first and that's what's most important to him.
Speaker 2:So take the first step and call Nick Routon, century 21 Executives at 778-212-3273, or visit vernon and coldstreamhomefindercom. Once again, that's 778-212-3273. Uh, thank you, nick routon of century 21, for your sponsorship with umh 68. Uh, we're looking forward to hosting it. Now. Let's get back to our discussion right now.
Speaker 2:Winning versus losing. I've been trying to think about this one as far as like how that got instilled and I think that there was a piece of it in me that I just hated losing from the time I knew what losing was right, just never liked it. But I do think that it was definitely a part of my environment growing up. Right, like meaning, especially at the junior level. Um, like you know, like I think it was probably typical throughout most of the league.
Speaker 2:But I remember Brian Maxwell, like we we would lose a game and try cities, like there would be no lights, there'd be no movie, there'd be no talking, like for the entire bus ride home and practice was miserable the next day. Like it was like a thing right, like if you were losing, there was no fun and it was like it was meant to be no fun, and then, if you're a winning, there was a little more leeway that you could laugh and you could do. I mean, so it was, it was ingrained in you, and I think that also transpired into pro. So I'm trying to decide, like is that nurture or is that nature? Is it a little bit of both? Like, how do you handle that as a coach? Now?
Speaker 1:Well, here's the thing. So back in the day and I was the same way when I first coached, or was an assistant coach in the Western Hockey League after and we had long bus rides in Spokane, obviously, right, yeah, the closest was Tri and the second closest was Kootenay when they were in the league, and then you got five hours down the I-90 to Seattle. That's five hours, right. So I tell you this we're the same, you know. You win, you're on cloud nine and the movie's playing, and then you give them another 15 minutes of lights out and you get a little sleep on the bus. You had to get some sleep on the bus in the US division, but then technology came into play too. So all but then technology came in into play too. So all of a sudden, when you don't put a movie on on the overhead, and then those little tvs, those little tvs on the bus, brutal, right, everyone's ipad anyway. So they're watching. They're watching movies with or without you, and they can do it with the sound, like headphones and earpieces in and all that stuff. So they gotta, that's different. So that's, that's not a thing anymore. The environment on the bus has to be healthy. You've got to, you know, obviously, feed your guys. You've got to treat them right, you've got to be good and that's the way it is. But when you get into practice you better step up just a little bit that way, but you can still get your point across without being that old school hard-ass type way. You know, like guys know right, nobody likes losing. I don't care who you are, nobody. When you get to any age group of triple A, anything likes losing? They don't, nobody does. They don't make it to the highest levels. But then you've got to learn not to accept it. You've got to learn to sacrifice individual rights for team rights to make sure you don't lose, like when you're.
Speaker 1:There's three scenarios I'm coming through the neutral zone with the puck with three minutes to go in the game. I'm down one. You're Jason Padal and you've got the puck. You're a skilled guy. You're down one. I need you to make a play. We're tied, we're in a three and three, we're on the road.
Speaker 1:I need you to be able to make a play that doesn't leave us vulnerable. Right, If we're up one, I need you to make the right play for the score. I don't need you to go take somebody on one-on-one, turn the puck over and let that guy initiate transition. I need you to make a different play in all three scenarios. How do you learn that as a young athlete? That's the beautiful thing. It's the same, but the score dictates. It's the same three minutes on the clock, but the score makes you should make you realize that, okay, I've got to try something here, and if I turn it over, so be it. If I lose by two, if I lose by one or I lose by two, it's no different. So I gotta, I gotta pull a rabbit out.
Speaker 2:Maybe I love you saying that that's awesome, Like that was, like that was almost one of my core focus points with with the 12 year olds I was working with this year. Like in the spring, like game, like recognizing the game and managing the game according to what it's telling you, Right, Like I watched last year, like when I wasn't coaching, for instance, we have the goalie pulled right, Like trying to score a goal, we're down one and both D men are backing off the blue line when the, when the other team gets the puck right To get a retrieval, and in my head I'm like that's no concept of what we're trying to accomplish here. You need to play the game differently in that scenario, right, but watching is kind of interesting because then it allows you to see. Okay, now, when I'm in that chair as a coach, this is something that I obviously need to teach because it's not something that's just automatically known.
Speaker 1:Situational awareness needs to be taught, and needs to be taught at every level and needs to be taught on a consistent basis and it doesn't need to be long. You need to take that clip. You need to take all the six on five goals against goals, four from the playoffs. You got to have a video library and you got to talk about it. This is what this team did. This team like the one that really happens a lot and unfortunately, you know, happens more than you'd like is you're.
Speaker 1:You get the goalie out and guys are moving it around on the perimeter. We need two guys. We need to throw this thing to the net from everywhere. We need two within 54 seconds and usually it's a net where you're down, say, you're down 3-1. So you've played 59 minutes and scored one time. Now you're trying to get two in one minute. You know the odds are in your favor, but you don't shoot the puck and get a bounce. Now you're really you're not scoring.
Speaker 1:The six on five should have a little bit of power play alignment to it, but it's not a power play that you're looking for. The pretty backdoor tap in. You're looking for some grease and some seconds and some thirds, right? So those things have to be talked about. As coaches and you know how we've got a lot of time with our athletes. We've got six, seven months there there's time to touch on that and five or six too, like, okay, this is what we're doing, let's just. You know, whatever you believe in, you believe in and teach and you'll be fine, but it needs to be taught.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I agree, I agree. Yeah, we talked, we talked a little bit about in the program and that whole idea of communication and you were speaking more from, like, a coach's job is to have touches on his players. Right, you want to keep that communication open. You want to make sure that you recognize the person behind the hockey player. I think that's becoming much more in vogue and recognized now than perhaps decades ago. But where do you find, if any, is the accountability on the player to facilitate that communication on his side?
Speaker 1:Well, there is accountability, but it comes more from the coach to the player and that's where you got to have your segment meetings and that's where you got to make sure you're bringing guys in and having meetings and it's not a meeting where you know it doesn't have to be a meeting where you're on one side of the desk, the other guy's on the other side of the desk and it feels like it's an intimidating environment. Um, or you know, there's four coaches and one player and he feels intimidated from it. It can be in the stands, it can be on the ice, it can be on the walk in the parking lot to the vehicle, like, even though those are just conversations, those are technically our meetings too. Right, it doesn't have to be a meeting where you have a zoom call. That's a meeting or I'm taking notes. That's a formal meeting. I'm I'm creating a document from this meeting. We're going to hand it out.
Speaker 1:No, like, hey, you got time for a coffee. Hey, you got time for a coffee. Hey, you know what? This nhl guy wants to interview you. I know you've had a busy day. What do you think? And guys are excited. Well, of course, I want to get interviewed by the nhl guy. I said, okay, I'm going to facilitate it through him. Uh, do you mind if I give that scout your number? No, go ahead, and it's good. And then the next day you go hey, how's the meeting then? Good.
Speaker 1:And then if it's a scout who knows you, he also have his opinion on the meeting and the player will have his opinion on the meeting and they might be different. They might be different, who knows? Or it might be the same, or it might be one of those guys who's an engaging personality and the scouts loved it. Right, because the guy's fun to be around, like he's an energy guy. And it might be one of those guys that you're just pulling teeth trying to get the conversation started.
Speaker 1:It's all kinds of scenarios, right, but you try to help them with that, you, but you try to help them with that. You say, hey, you know, look a certain way, be on time, be early. This is your city, you know where everything is. There's no reason for you to be late. If he's late, if he flew into Calgary and drove down to Lethbridge and he's going to, whatever, let's give the Kig a shout out. If he's going to the Kig, you shouldn't be the second guy you do and you know what. We've helped a lot of people. We talked in the past about Derek Ryan, derek Ryan's story and coming the way. He came through the Western League and went to CIS hockey and played at U of A and then played in Austria and now he was rolling out there in game seven. I thought he was on the opening lineup, if I'm correct right.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean mean one thing I will say. I didn't actually didn't see the puck drop, but one thing I did see was edmonton's pk absolutely dominate and he's and he's one of the first ones I think he's the first pair that goes out um, sorry, I just lost you there. And I, I was so impressed with edmonton's pk, I loved how, how aggressive it was and like, and that's where obviously I mean they find value in in Derek in a lot of ways, but like, that's where he's finding himself in the lineup is like holding down that, that position and taking pride in it.
Speaker 1:Well, somebody some of your viewers should go on if they have instat passes or sport logic, and go and look at doc on the right side, so on his strong side, his PKD zone face-off win percentage. It buys him extra extra year or two in the league just because he's such a good penalty killer, because he's so intelligent. But he also wins that opening or the face-off that he takes. And if you look at it in Vancouver's perspective, they've got either JT Miller or Pedersen taking that draw as a left-handed guy. Well, you've got Doc coming over the over the boards as a righty. So now they're both on the strong side. So now let's go. It's not putting a lefty in there in a disadvantaged situation. It's Doc in a positive spot and he's not going to let you down very often and if he does let you down it's not going to be because of lack of compete or want or try. That guy has carved out a career and it's a great story, as you and I both know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, maybe we can touch on that, because we're talking about communication, we're talking about different ways to make an impact, and that's one of the things that I preach here and with the players that I work with is like you're on ice piece, like you need to take care of that, of course, and there's ways to be noticed and ways to separate yourself, but the human aspect of the game is very, very relevant, right, like there's going to be something I'm sure that you liked about doc from a, from a game standpoint, but there's also stuff about his game standpoint that didn't bring him back sooner.
Speaker 2:Right, like he did leave when he played third league Austria and he had to build his way up and then bill Peters, who knew him from Spokane and it probably saw his game develop wanted, wanted a piece of them. You mean, the organization wanted a piece of him and you wanted to have him in your lineup, like I would assume, and again, we I don't know because I never asked you this question before, but there was something about doc as the person that aligned with him as a player that you wanted to be a part of your organization yeah, well, he's just an elite human being and he's a guy who you talk about maxing out his potential.
Speaker 1:he's done that and he's taking the long road in order to do that. But the thing about him is he was a skilled, skilled guy and ended up playing as a 20-year-old and junior in Spokane, which is his hometown which isn't easy to do playing your hometown and he managed that brilliantly. And then he went on and he wanted to become a dentist, went to the U of A graduation four years and goes place pro and leads that league in scoring and just keeps climbing the ladder.
Speaker 2:So at some point he's earned the next opportunity.
Speaker 1:And what happened is I was in Carolina at the time and I'll never forget it my daughter was at a soccer tryout and I caught wind that he was coming back to North America and he was going to sign with Washington and go play in Hershey's really what the plan was right. So, through some people that I knew, obviously, and I got Doc's current number and I talked to him. I said, well, just, I'm just telling you how it is. I know your game inside out and I know he is a person and Washington was rolling at the time, in the mid, you know, 2010, 14, 16 they were loaded.
Speaker 1:I said you know, your opportunity to play there behind Baxter and Kuznetsov, jb Go and all those guys isn't isn't great? I wouldn't think, whereas we're a little in a different situation in the team that I was currently coaching. So I just said, hey, for what it's worth. You know I'm going to run it up the flagpole of management. You do what you got to do, but I think we've got a better opportunity here. And he ended up signing with us and ended up starting in the American League and coming to the, the national hockey league, and not looking back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what at 30,? I think right, wasn't he 30?
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's yeah, I don't know exactly what outlook and Ponzi, sorry, yeah, I think he was 30 years old, like legitimately.
Speaker 2:And like now he's been. He's been in the NHL ever since Like what a crazy age to start. And if it wasn't 30,?
Speaker 1:something. Let's do the math he played. He played major junior at 20. He played four years of school and he was in at least his fourth, if not fifth year pro in europe.
Speaker 2:So there's 28, 29, 30 yeah, yeah, unbelievable even we can coaches he, um and and so to that like, just to get back to that, that, like the you, you said, like it's your, it's your responsibility as a coach to engage the players and to and to have the conversations with them. Now, how, like. The one thing I say to players is is none of this needs to be inauthentics. I think if a guy is in your year as a player inauthentically, you feel that, right, it's, you know, like he's, he's trying to do something.
Speaker 2:The way I speak about it is like if you're curious about your game, right and again getting back to this peak potential culture, like people that are actually really into being their best, they are seeking different avenues to how that's supposed to happen. Now you, being the head coach, is somebody that is directly related to that happening, right, so you're going to see things in his game or you're going to point out things or maybe give advice. So, like my thing is like if you are genuinely curious about the team and about your game, there's going to be conversations that you are going to want to have with those around you and if you're not having them, you're doing yourself a disservice, not only from the hockey side but also from the people side, like the personality side, like you, you wanting this player to do well, right, just because you now enjoy him as a person too. So can you speak to that a little bit Like do you think that's a, do you think that's wise advice that I'm, that I'm giving?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is for sure, and it builds confidence and it advances the player. You know his maturity level, right, we can always, you know, say, oh, I tried to reach out and I tried to meet with this guy and it didn't happen. Well, and I tried to meet with this guy and it didn't happen. Well, we have to make it happen and we hopefully get to the point where we're comfortable later in the season with that player approaching us about something. Right, they've always got something on their mind, right?
Speaker 1:There's so many different ways to play different scenarios in hockey on a track sword, on a D-zone, face-off alignment versus a no-vetch game. There's so many different ways. You can do it all successful. But hopefully and I had a player this year come in and said hey, why do we do it like this? And we walked through it and I said, man, that was a great question, unbelievable. And he goes. Well, it makes perfect sense. Now that I've went through all five guys' responsibility, I said we're going in the meeting today is about this play right here. I'm not going to say that you and I have already had the meeting, but if you're asking and are a little bit unsure, there's 18 other guys that are unsure too. So we got it all cleared up and that's how we did it. And and I go don't get me wrong there's other ways to do it that work too, but this is how we do it, so it's not a random thing.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right, not random, can't be. When you go a little bit random, then at the possible time that randomness hurts you yeah, no for sure I've talked to my son too about that.
Speaker 2:Like I mean, whatever you mean my oldest, who just got drafted, he's 14 and don't want to give out too many inside family secrets, but they're all trying to find their voice, right, like they have their own idea of what's happening and maybe not quite brave enough to ask the question or to provide the opinion and, um, and I, just I, I just try and let him know. It's like you knew you do need to know your audience, because there's a people side of that, right, like some some guys want to be talked to as a head coach and some guys don't. So you got to know the audience, but I'm like you got to be true to you, because the more true you are to yourself, like the more that person understands you and is able to go to bat. Like I think, like for the guys that are around me and even the guys that got involved in my own career, they liked me, you know what I mean like I could tell that they liked me and, yeah, they liked my game too.
Speaker 2:But you like that is a distinct advantage, especially in the land of opportunity, right, like where you have the control over who goes on the ice and who doesn't, and whether you're thinking it consciously or not at the time, that if that affinity to to like whatever advantage that is, it's an advantage, right, and you're going to get another chance. You're going to get to to like whatever advantage that is, it's an advantage, right, and you're going to get another chance. You're going to get an extra shift, or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 1:Well, that's funny and I'll go back to what my degree from Cornell. They talked about unconscious bias. We all have these biases that we're either well we're not aware of. That's why they're called unconscious bias and that's part of life. So, players, the more players can be interactive, the better.
Speaker 1:When the world junior was on this year, canada scored a goal on a set play, on a face-off. One of my players came in and said hey, did you see that play Canada scored against Norway. I don't know who it was, norway. I said no, I didn't. And he goes well, this, this, that and the other, and I go. So I say to the video guy I said, hey, can you look it up? So he had it done in 15 minutes.
Speaker 1:I brought, brought the player back in. I said, hey, is this the one? He goes yeah, that's it. What do you think? I go? Well, great play. Obviously the result's a goal, everything's good. And I could tell he wanted to run the play right. And then I started looking on the ice. So, on the line that he was currently on that stretch of hockey, all worked for him to be the shooter. Way, it was a right-handed center, right-handed winger, left-handed guy, blah, blah, blah and I just I laughed. I said, man, that little guy, he knows, he knows if we run this play, he's the guy pulling the trigger and that's his skill set. But good on him.
Speaker 2:Good on him for that right, yeah, I mean get back to your point about the unconscious bias. Like there, I don't want to get into the neurology side of it, but there is a piece of the brain that is responsible for it. But like if, if I'm a coach, even as a father, right, like if, if I see, if I see one of my boys working on his shot in the garage, let's say it's like a pull release shot, right, and I just know that he's been doing it for like three weeks and he doesn't, he does it in a game. Like I'm I'm noticing and being like wow, that was quicker. Like you, you want, like you do it unconsciously, but you're just there and you notice it. Like you know, you're a coach and you see that this guy is the first one to the locker room every time and he's the guy who was riding the bike in the morning. You unconsciously just think he has a, an aerobic advantage over whoever, right, oh, look at, he can go for 45 seconds. Jimmy can't right, world works.
Speaker 1:I have my phone and moving I I unfortunately, am going to die here.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Can I charge it up?
Speaker 2:Uh, all right, so we got the battery situation taken care of. Yeah, I'll just expand on the uh, uh, brad Larson, uh, former head coach of Columbus, he, he was, he was on the program too, and and and he just speak. He spoke to the idea of, like when players will come in to his office at the nhl level and say, hey, you know, whatever, I want more minutes, or why am I not in the second line, or whatever. The case may be right. And so he said, you know, then you give them honest feedback about what they need to do for the scenario, do xyz. And he said that it's very rare, even at that level, that that person will be working on that thing 60 days later, like they might do it for a week or two, right, to try and to try and improve or to try and get the thing that they want, but then they fall into other habits and they don't actually continue to follow through on whatever it is uh that they were asked of.
Speaker 2:Now, like when I heard that I'm like holy shit, like that's a secret sauce right there. Like, if you like, discipline, right, right and commitment, and like you know the the objectivity of how am I going to get to this goal? Uh, because even at the highest level it's not there. So, uh, to my point about like, what coaches notice, right, like Brad noticed that, yeah, are they working on it? Right, and if they're not working on it, then you have this like little snapshot in your head of like how important it really is to them, right, and if you see them doing it again and again, again, now you're like, now you become a fan, now you want them to succeed. Now you know, I mean, now there's buy-in, I think, on a different level and and that's the thing that I want to come authentically from my players, so it helps them reach their potential.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I agree 100%. And it's the old. You know what are you doing when nobody's watching type thing to make yourself better, and it's never, very rarely. Is it the fun, real fun things that you need to work on as a player. Like everyone can shoot the puck, Everyone can one time and everyone's got a good release. Especially now, with the technology and the sticks, guys can really shoot the puck. It's the wall work. It's handling the pinching D, it's the puck. It's the wall work. It's it's handling the pinching d. It's it's getting it out at the line, getting it in and getting off the wall in order to be able to chip it down the wall to a guy with speed. That those aren't sexy, fun things to work on, but those are the things that are going to allow you to play more at the end of the day, you wouldn't be where you are, especially in the national league level, if you couldn't give and take a pass on both sides of the stick.
Speaker 1:If you didn't have the ability to shoot the puck, you wouldn't be there. And everyone shoots lots of pucks anyway. Right At the end of practice you're always going to shoot pucks, but are you going to do the other stuff? That's not quite as entertaining.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I mean a good point is my son, who wasn't well. His handicap, in my opinion, was a straight line speed. Like he wasn't a great skater right, like he's good on his edges and like tough on pucks, but he wasn't from a to B straight line. That wasn't his thing. He finally kind of bought in after Christmas of like, okay, I'm going to do like this slide board work in the garage and I'm going to do this one leg unilateral stuff, collateral stuff and like kind of the stuff that I was trying to coax him to do. But anyways, like that is not sexy.
Speaker 2:No, that is being in the garage by yourself on a slide board doing something monotonous, you know, working on fundamentals, and it's not easy. But like he has committed to do that. He's like three and a half months in and it's directly noticeable in his game and I'm sure he wouldn't have gone where he went if he didn't have, if he didn't take that up in January, you know and like. So, like that's the kind of stuff that I think you and I are talking about is like how important is it to you? You know, do you want to make this difference? This is nothing's going to be fun about this, but the grind is going to get you closer to where you want to go.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know what and it's not arguments, but you good discussions with strength guys all the time. I'm a believer you've still got to get under the bar. You've got to be under the bar on your squats and stuff. So your son and good for him to do the work. That's all lower body power. Once he gets that, that issue in his game is going to go away. But that lower body power just doesn't happen by normal practice and normal eating habits and getting your eight hours sleep you got to get out of the bar and you got to get some leg strength.
Speaker 1:You got to get some power and then all of a sudden you got to do some sprint work. Right, and it's no fun. I don't care who you are like track, track, track athletes. I tip my hat like unbelievable. But like when you're doing two. You know 200 yard sprints and you got to do them on yeah. It's a lot of work and it's not fun and it's not what hockey players typically do, but if you want to get quicker, you got to do them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I agree, um. Is there anything else that you uh, that we haven't touched on, that you think we should?
Speaker 1:No, I think it's been good. I think it's been uh added out where you feel you need to edit out and away we go.
Speaker 2:I don't believe it. That's the good of free discussion. We just roll. Maybe when you unplug there, we have to plug you in, but other than that, I think it was great. I really appreciate you sharing your years of wisdom. Be back. Yeah, what happened there?
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Maybe we'll edit that one out. Thanks for coming on, and where are you right now? Actually, we didn't put that in the pod. You're down south somewhere.
Speaker 1:We're down south, so this is home. So, just getting it settled in and it'll be good. It's a good place in the winter, a little bit warm this time of year, but all good.
Speaker 2:But in Texas right. Is that where you are right now?
Speaker 1:Texas yeah.
Speaker 2:Down in Texas and you come back up for the season.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll come back up for August.
Speaker 2:Gotcha. Well, thanks for joining us from down there. Do you have any predictions when we leave here? We've got four teams left now. Who are you thinking is going to be the cream of the crop?
Speaker 1:Well, I think Dallas is going to be tough to beat. Obviously they're very deep. I don't know if they're getting any health back on the back end. If they did, that would make them even tougher. And then Florida is as good as anybody, but Shesterkin, that's a tough one, right? Those two goaltenders in that conference final are top notch, so that'll be a good one to watch. And then you know Edmonton. Are they deep enough? What do you think you know?
Speaker 2:what I mean. You know what? I think that the depth guys are getting it really hard. I think I love their depth. I just think that they got to let those guys play more. That's my biggest thing. I think Fogle's good. I like McLeod, I like their third line more than their fourth line, but their fourth line's getting it done. I think they got their top nine, I think, really good. I think they just got to let them play more and not fall in love with the idea that you have the two best, two of the best players in the world, which is so hard as a coach probably not to fall in love with. That Right, Like, how do you not put them back out there?
Speaker 1:Well, especially when you get behind Right.
Speaker 2:But you're right.
Speaker 1:Like if they ever get a lead on you and start playing more guys, they're going to play their four forward groups lots um petrovic got in game six. I know you know a lot. It'll be interesting, but there's some obviously elite players in both series so it'll be a lot of fun yeah, no, it's gonna be.
Speaker 2:I'm looking forward to it. I mean, like there's no, I don't know. You know, like when montreal went that one year, like everyone kind of knew they weren't going to win, you know like they were like they just sort of did it with smoke and mirrors. These are all really solid teams left right now.
Speaker 1:Anyone legitimately could win here, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Anyways, well, thanks again, we'll let you go. We'll catch up, I'm sure, soon, and thanks for joining us on the show.
Speaker 1:Okay, appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Thanks, bungie. Thank you for listening to that episode with bill peters. Uh, I enjoyed the episode. I really enjoyed the conversation. I I like hockey guys, you know, and bill's definitely a hockey guy uh, I I think the fact that he reached out to me and said, hey, I got these topics that I really want to chat about, I think that there's a lot of things that I can share or we can discuss that will provide some value to your listeners and the audience.
Speaker 2:And if we can help a couple of families or a couple of players get to where they want to go, that's what I want to do. So I think that tells you a little bit about Bill as a guy and about his character. And then he wants to give back and wants to share his experience and his lessons. And I thank you, bill, if you're listening, for doing that and for sharing. And I also thank you for being brave and courageous and coming on the show and being willing to talk about a tough, tough subject.
Speaker 2:I know that there's been.
Speaker 2:You know that you've been kind of told not to and you need to keep your story because there's things that have been happening on the outside. But I believe that I believe, believe, and I mean I'll let everyone else here, as the listeners, be the judge, and I'd love to hear what you think of the conversation, um, uh, in regards to the entirety of it, but also in regards to, you know, bill's experience with what uh happened there, with his removal from from calgary, and and the lessons that he learned and the lessons that he imparted on this, on this episode, um, um, I know it's a, it's a touchy subject and uh, and it should be, but it's also one that we should be able to talk about and hopefully learn from and grow from, and and uh, be on this path of evolution, which is really kind of what my hockey is, and its own philosophy is that we can always be better and we can always improve, and we can always grow, always be better, we can always improve and we can always grow and, uh, I don't think, uh, you know, anything outside the physical realm is, is, should, should abide by any different set of rules. So, um, yeah, I, I hope that we have grown here collectively. I hope that everyone learns something, whether it's hockey, wise or otherwise.
Speaker 2:Uh, in this episode, and uh, and yeah, I think it was a conversation that was, that was definitely worth having, so I'll leave that with you and until next time, play hard.