Always Show A Thankful Heart

Ever felt the weight of expectations tipping the scales against your authentic self? I've wrestled with the same challenge, longing for societal acceptance while yearning to embrace my true identity. In the heartfelt echoes of this episode, I share my personal voyage from the chains of people-pleasing to the serene shores of self-acceptance. A particular spotlight shines on Black Women, as we delve into our unique narratives, encouraging you to redefine success and seize the freedom that accompanies it. My father's lessons on gratitude weave through our discussion, offering a compass for navigating both our internal landscapes and professional waters.

The professional realm is seldom a straight path – it's a rich tapestry of opportunities, rejections, and the intricate choreography of work-life balance. Join me as I recount tales of resilience in job searches, the enlightenment found in declining roles that don't resonate with personal timing, and the artful dance of contract negotiations. Through the lens of my own experiences, including the ups and downs of a contracting career and the transformative decisions as a new mother, this episode serves as a testament to the conscious planning and dedication needed for cultivating a thriving career that now balances mum life.

This is a call to action; to build personal growth opportunities, foster supportive networks, and engage in the crucial conversations about representation and advancement. If you're looking for a roadmap to navigate your career with strategy and intention, or if you're eager to share your own experiences, I'm here to offer insight and support. Let's journey together towards empowerment, integrity, and boundary-setting – the cornerstones of not just a career, but a life lived with purpose.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

You absolutely have to become okay with not being liked, no matter how loving or kind you are. You will never people please your way into collective acceptance. You could be a whole ray of sunshine and people will hate you because they used to rain. Be okay with shining regardless. And that was posted on Instagram by IamKiaraj. Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of the Toy Talks podcast.

Speaker 1: 0:28

My name is Toy Washington and we teach, guide and educate black women how to navigate the world of work safely and, in turn, highlight the path of our success. You get to define what success means to you. There's not a collective definition of what success means. Now, whilst the English dictionary may define success what it actually means to you on a subjective level, it doesn't have to be the same as other people's. Effectively, what I'm saying as an ex-people-pleaser that opening quote means a lot to me because I think I have learned that where the people pleasing mentality has come from, and it is the needs and want to be accepted, especially when you have grown up in an environment where you're made to feel like you're not good enough and nothing you ever do will ever be good enough. And actually you as a person are not good, not because of any intrinsic reason, but because people use what they can to control you. And then, when you claw back control of your life, then you become the problem. And then, unless you cut that perpetual cycle of toxicity, you become complicit in your own experiences and then you get to a point where maybe or maybe not in my case it was the case that you walk away. You then are confronted with whether you made the right decision, and then you realize that calm that you feel after what has felt like a storm is actually peace, and if you hadn't made those decisions to protect yourself, you would not be experiencing peace. To be a people-pleaser is probably one of the most difficult environments to be in, because you're always on edge. So sometimes you just have to be okay with who you are as a person and who you know yourself to be, and the fact that you're never going to please everybody.

Speaker 1: 2:22

I'm entitling this episode Always Show a Thankful Heart, and it's because my dad raised me with that. He would always say it's important to show a thankful heart. There's so many life lessons and quotes and you know like and to-dotes that my dad would share with me and my siblings and what I love and I miss so much since his past is how honest my dad was about where his flaws sat and the mistakes that he had made and the life lessons that he had learned and the things that he had done differently as a result of learning from his mistakes but also never be. My dad was never afraid to make a mistake, but he was always very vocal about showing a thankful heart. And my dad said you know, it could be just the simplest saying thank you to someone. You don't know what day they've had, but when somebody goes out of their way for you, my dad goes. Showing that thankful heart is not only showing it to them, but it's an understanding that someone has selflessly given, shown or embraced you on a selfless level and that doesn't happen all the time. Understanding that the ancestors bring forth people as instruments. But in order to almost be thankful and not ungrateful, it's acknowledging that you're not. It's acknowledging that for you to receive this is a blessing and you have to honor that blessing. You have to show a thankful heart. I've lived my life by that and I continue to live my life by that, and that's exactly how I'm raising my child. There are so many things I can't wait to teach her and stuff. But showing a thankful heart is really, really important. I'm gonna bring it to life for you. Even last year or the year before, I can't quite remember pregnancy brain is still operating I applied for a particular role and it was for a global organization, a very well-renowned and well-respected organization, and the agency that put me forward for the role are very boutique agency and they don't put a lot of people forward for certain roles.

Speaker 1: 4:46

They're very picky. In fact, I felt happy to be on their books because they get very premium roles with premium clients and sometimes access to certain clients for roles because they've got exclusivity with these end clients. I went through interview process and it was a two panel. It was a man and a woman, so we're gonna call the woman Sarah, we're gonna call the man Jim, and it was an okay interview but I couldn't call it either way. It was just a very pleasant interview.

Speaker 1: 5:18

I didn't end up getting that job and I was disappointed, but I took the learnings from it and the profile that was sent to the end client. I asked the agency if they can send me a copy of the profile and the profile was fantastic and it was basically the overarching cover letter to support my CV and it was the way they drafted it and they added certain stuff to my CV but really brought to life the essence and the journey of my career in a really succinct way. And I have that copy and I use it and I added stuff and in my CV removed stuff and it's kind of like when I'm applying for a role or going through an agency I actually use the cover sheet that agency had used. You see, you learn from every aspect of life. I always have a student of life and I'm forever learning. So after that happened, about two weeks later I get a phone call from the agency and they said to me that said company has reached out to them and specifically requested me to interview for a similar role as the one I did before and that this lady, sarah, had forwarded my CV to her colleague. The recruiter said that this has never happened before since he's been managing this client's recruitment. It's never happened. It's never happened that they've come to him and said we wanna interview this person again for another role and he said which show it shows me.

Speaker 1: 7:00

The first interview you had was amazing and probably there was nothing in it. Maybe it was a case that somebody has maybe a month's worth of experience of a particular type of project more than you I'd love to put you forward. I said okay, so I meet the guy and we're gonna call the guy Sam and I had a meeting with Sam and it was a really nice meeting and he said listen, my colleague Sarah forwarded me your CV and as soon as I saw it I had to meet you and she speaks very highly of you and he goes I'm aware that you didn't get the role in that team, but it's not to talk to your ability to deliver or anything like that. But I hope the fact that I'm also interviewing you for a similar role shows you that it's just a different team and everything. So I said okay. So then he said to me there's gonna be another interview with the program director and he was very honest. He said she's really difficult is what he said. I said no problem.

Speaker 1: 8:04

Within 48 hours I had a second stage interview with that particular lady and she was very intense it's the best way to describe it. 24 hours later I get a call from the recruiter and the recruiter says to me they would like to offer you a role. They said it's 100% remote because it wasn't necessarily advertised as that. I was very clear that it would have to be. And he said to me what the rate was. The rate was absolutely amazing and I expected it to be for that particular organization. And he said I've literally got the offer here. It's about whether you want to accept and I can send it over.

Speaker 1: 8:49

And I said to him I can't take the role. He said pardon, he goes. Is it because you didn't get offered the role that you applied for two weeks ago? I says no, I just can't accept this role right now. This is not the right time for me, and everyone that listens to my podcast and platform know that I will forever stay interviewing because that's how I've become really, really good at interviewing. So going through an interview process is part and parcel of my career journey. But the recruiter is not going to understand that because he's also a very good interviewer. He's also thinking about his commission and it would be pretty high in accordance, if I think about it, in relation to my day rate. I know that his commission for this would be really good and it's a six month contract and it would likely very much extend.

Speaker 1: 9:37

So that was that I didn't hear from the recruiter after that A whole year. No, it's not even up to a year. A whole eight and a half, nine months goes by and the great thing about having a team's interview is you get to see the people's emails that you're going to have an interview with, because it's on the invite, right. So the guys, sam, who I had interviewed with at that particular organization, I reach out to him and I say Sam, I'm not sure if you remember me, so I've attached my CV for ease of reference. I was offered the role XYZ, xyz, xyz ie the job title and everything. And I says unfortunately I was not in a position to accept the role. I said there were circumstances beyond my control and it wasn't right for me to accept the role if I couldn't complete the assignment.

Speaker 1: 10:30

And more than anything else, my integrity is very important and I know that you must have been very disappointed, but I'd rather disappoint you now rather than burn a bridge. It'll be great to connect. Hope you're well, take care, kind of gods. So about three or four days later I get an email from Sam and he says you know, I was really disappointed that you didn't take the role. He goes. I really wanted to work with you. I think you would have been amazing, but I really respect the fact that how many months later you've reached out and you have kind of explained what happened, and I respect it because not many people would do that and that in itself shows me integrity and shows me that you are a woman of your word. He said so. He said I'll bear you in mind for any future roles and projects. Kind regards, take care. I was like cool Because for me, I felt good after that and I was like whatever.

Speaker 1: 11:31

So three months after that I get an email from Sam just out of the blue, random email. I was literally getting into my car, heading off somewhere, and he says hey, toya, how are you doing? There's a role that's come up here and I just wanted to know kind of what your circumstances are, what you're working on, where are you? You know what you're doing and is this something that you would consider because I'd love to put you forward for it? He said unfortunately he's not working in my team, but the projects are huge. So I got a problem. Looking at his email, I'm thinking I disappointed him. I reached out to him and when someone says oh, you know, they're better you in mind. You don't really think of it like I just let it go. And also sometimes people just say to be polite. But he wasn't he. He really meant it because he did reach out. So I went back to him. I told him what I was up to, what I was doing, the project goes on, etc. Etc, etc. Now the only thing that he hadn't told me is that this was a perm roll. I wasn't aware of that the point because obviously my interactions with that organization through the agency is within my interim roles and based on projects. It was never about a perm anyway.

Speaker 1: 12:54

After that didn't hear from him again. So December, and on November, december, early December, I reach out and say sorry, no. So I replied to his email tell him what I'm up to, whatever, tell him about availability, everything like that, and did it here back. So then I reached out to him again and I said I haven't heard from you, haven't heard much about this role. I said don't worry if it's, you know, not live anymore or whatever the situation is. Just thank you for even thinking of me. But I just thought I'd reach out because I know the time of year is really busy and just let you know that. You know I am interest. I'm still interested. So he came back to me literally within a few hours and he's like I'm really sorry, I was on annual leave and there's a lot going on, I hadn't forgotten. But thank you for coming back to me and he says I'm gonna recommend you for the role. So I'm thinking should it be going through the agency here? Because I don't understand, unless I'm now contracting directly with the company because it I just didn't understand.

Speaker 1: 14:06

So the next day, so 24 hours after he said he'd recommend me, I get an email from their HR and it says you've been recommended by Sam Belfolatain look at me, yeah, his name is Sam Belfolatain, that's what we're going to hear and to apply for this role. Please can you click this link? Now I'm gonna say something. It's really hard to get into this organization. So the fact that I had gotten, as you know, going for a recruiter was amazing. But the fact that they had an opening twice in one year for my field was unprecedented, because even a recruiter said it to me. But it's also a reflection of how serious they take my field as well, because it's something that they really want to develop, but we'll get on to that later. So when I get this link and everything, I'm not okay. This is perm, this is really clearly perm. It's not going for a recruiter or anything, it's perm. I didn't actually click on the link. It took me a couple of days, but what happened in those couple of days urged me to click the link.

Speaker 1: 15:15

My sister-in-law had come over for Christmas and obviously it was the first Christmas with my daughter. And one thing about my sister-in-law and I we have such a great relationship. We are always laughing but there is, it's very wholesome and we have a bond, we're really bonded. And you know, I have been told, and she has said it, that she does look up to me a lot, which you know is is a blessing. But also as well, I just feel really honored and also she's a bit younger than me and she is. She was at the time finding her way in her career. So obviously we talked everything I was able to support her as much as possible and she has kind of blossomed not kind of, she has blossomed anyway.

Speaker 1: 16:02

She said to me just one random day over Christmas. She says what do you love about your job? And I was. I don't love my job. I'm good at it, but love is a strong word. She said oh, okay. She said, would you have a specialized? This is what you mean. She goes well, you contract, you consult, like she goes the whole time.

Speaker 1: 16:21

I've known you, I've never known you without consulting. You've always got something in your pipeline, but you've always worked in different areas. So you've worked in. For example, you've done IT transformation, you have done facilities management, you have done dispute resolution. You've done so much stuff. But like what is it that you're passionate about what area of what you do? And I just stopped and I looked at her and I said no one's ever asked me that people. Now I caveat that by saying that my sister-in-law is a HR specialist, a very good one, so her question of me was quite pertinent to what she does. But also, I had never stopped to think.

Speaker 1: 17:09

You see, becoming a contractor for me was because I was in a role where I was training other people and they were earning more than me. And then, when it was time to promote me, there was no way to promote because there was a flat structure and I became dissatisfied. I became resentful because I really loved a particular role that I was in. So to find out I was so undervalued it forced me to consider contracting. One of my really good friends at the time was a contractor, so she kind of advised me how to get into contracting, set up my limited company and everything, and then the rest was history. And it's been seven years deep and I have climbed up the ranks exponentially in my career. I'm very senior. I've worked on very amazing projects, some projects that you guys would be shocked, and shocked more because of the visibility of those projects, and it's not just been one or two, it's been quite a few. I'm quite proud of them.

Speaker 1: 18:14

So to then be asked about specialising as a contractor you don't think about this. It's not part of parcel of being a contractor. So I had to sit in that because up until that time I'm just contracting and, bearing in mind I had just started the current contract that I'm in as well, I'd have really started right and my career in a way was under review because I've just had a baby, I'm a new mom. Then it's career and motherhood, and I didn't know what that would look like because I was still figuring that out. So then to be asked quite pointed questions meant that I really had to now sit and think about what my next steps were. And even if it was to stay in contracting, I could still specialise in my con in contracting as well. I've been come.

Speaker 1: 19:10

I literally become a generalist and I've always told you that you need to be able to pivot, and that's the reason why I never wanted to be pigeonholed as doing just facilities management or just doing dispute resolution and just in ADR work as well, or just do employment projects, or you know I are 34, I are 35 projects. I wanted to do everything so that I always would have an opportunity to make money as a senior commercial contract consultant. And that's exactly what happened, by the grace of the ancestors. So what my sister in law didn't know is I had something in my mailbox, right. So then I told her and she, she was laughing and she was like toya, you, you are so amazing at what you do that I feel like if you want to work for this company, you're so intentional that if it is your intention intention you will work for them. And if you know anything about me, I'm intentional.

Speaker 1: 20:13

I was quite overwhelmed. I just given birth to a child. I was cut back into contracting. My daughter was just had just 10-7 months. My hormones were all over the place and I'm trying to find my foot in and we're getting into new routine as a family. It felt like a just a very big decision, and I'm for me.

Speaker 1: 20:30

I deal with my career like a project and I've told everybody that I've been very transparent about how I've dealt with my career and it's also meant that I've been able to attain success because I've been very strategic with my career and how I manage it on a personal level and also situational levels as well. So then I made a decision. I sat back and I really took a few days to think and then I made a decision about what I was gonna do, what does good look like, what direction I want to go in, why do I want to go in it? And part of that was because when you're a contractor, you could potentially earn a lot of money, especially like consulting and doing certain projects. I've been able to earn six figures and I've earned a lot of money along the way, and it's because you're able to work like through Christmas, depending on some of the rules of where you're working, but usually where I work, I can work as many days as I want.

Speaker 1: 21:30

But the whole point is if you don't work you don't get paid and, as much as you know, contractors earn a lot of money. We take on a lot of risk. We don't get sick pay. Sometimes you get annual leave, depending if you're inside IR35. But we also have to pay a levy fee with the agency. You have to set up your own pension and usually it's through an umbrella company if you're inside IR35. If it's outside, then you have to make sure that you set up your own private pension and things like that Outside of IR35. You have to make sure you have your insurances so you pay for that either monthly or yearly. If you're outside IR35. You have to pay for an accountant and things like that.

Speaker 1: 22:12

So for me, contractors being very lucrative, I have one roll inside, one roll outside, or I'll have one roll inside and a few small outside rolls and that's literally what I've done and I've built on that by having really good contacts that I've furnished over the last few years, who they know. I'm really good at my job, I deliver if something comes through the door. I often get the right off-fetch refusal before they would go out to other people because they've had the experience of working with me and I've really enjoyed contracting. I've really enjoyed how my confidence has grown, the idea of starting again, because sometimes I find it really, really hard and I have found it really hard to start again. So contracting allows you to work on that, because you're going into a new environment, you're only to deliver, but you're starting again each and every time. You're not going to get a hand over as a contractor. That's out of the window. If you're expecting that, if you do, that's great. But I'm yet to be in a contract in the last seven years where I get any type of handover and I don't expect it. I do discuss that on the freelance and interim masterclass on the ToyTalkscom website.

Speaker 1: 23:17

Anyway, so Christmas I missed out on almost £10,000 and that's because my daughter finished nursery a day or two before Christmas and it was just natural for me to just be off right and look after my daughter. It didn't even occur to me about the amount of money I was missing out on and Kay had said to me you know, if you'd spoken to me we could have, you know, managed our daughter between us so that you could work. But it wasn't my focus, because any time my daughter's around, she is the main focus of my attention, but again it did lend itself to making me think about, you know, contracting. You know I often said I'm not going to go back to PIRM and I had to work through that as well, like why have I taken that position? What about? What is it about PIRM that is represented? That makes me uncomfortable, and I had to work through that. This is all before knowing how I'm going to respond to the email from this company. Sam's recommended me to their HR. I had to work through these things in a short window as well. So I think PIRM unnerves me because I have been PIRM before and I think I was PIRM before. What felt like the wrong company was probably the right company because it was the launch pad to me being a contractor.

Speaker 1: 24:42

But I think there's some organisations that are just toxic and I think not being able to understand the trajectory. Growth has been really difficult. Objectives, town halls, all this stuff that sometimes I just think is a waste of time and talk crap, and it's a part of PIRM that I can't stand. If I'm honest, I've not had a good experiences in working for big global organisations in the past when it comes to enforcing my bonuses. Why am I having to have this discussion when you know I've got a whole flipping feedback and benefit but I'm going to have to present my case? It's exhausting. You know you have some of the deliverers, you know this person's going to work. Why am I now doing a whole fucking presentation about my fucking bonus stuff? That pisses me off.

Speaker 1: 25:32

So again, going PIRM, it would have to be for the right company and I would be very cut through with the contract, what I expect and what I want. So I took a few days. I spoke to Kay about it, because these type of career decisions now affect my husband and it affects my daughter. She goes to private nursery and I didn't know what this organisation would offer. But it would have to be damn very well good for me to actually really sit up and think okay. So I decided that in terms of specialising, I was ready to specialise and this is where I wanted to specialise. This particular area I want to specialise in happens to be the like a big area for this organisation. And then I said this is if I was to be presented with an offer, if I did get this role, I would be looking at cultural fit, I would be looking at their diversity numbers. In terms of senior management, I would have to sit on senior management, I would have to have my pick of projects and the overall package would have to be really good. And when I talk about package and pension is not a package I'm talking about stocks. That's where I'm at, because I have a daughter and I'm investing in her future. So I went on the link and I applied for the role.

Speaker 1: 27:05

January. I get an email from HR requesting an initial interview. So I have this initial interview and the HR manager is amazing and is thorough. So we have a really frank discussion and, luckily for me, the HR manager used to be a contractor, in fact, a consultant, a consultant contractor, and he was like I get it, he goes. I get it because this is a massive thing. If you were to move forward, this is huge. So, and also if we were to move forward with you, we would have to come correct, because what is your day rate? I told him he was like oh, I said yeah, so this is what where I'm working. So then we have the interview and everything goes really well.

Speaker 1: 28:01

It's very much an eye opener and we end it as you know what Toya, I've really enjoyed talking to you. You've been very honest, you've been very open, you've been very direct about your skillset and you've gone through your CV. You've taken a really nice journey. I understand now what you're looking for, where you've been in terms of your career progression to date, and I really want to take you to the next stage if you're interested. So I said to him okay, do you want to date? A think about it. He was laughing. He was like no, I want to take you to second stage if you're interested. So I was like alright, cool.

Speaker 1: 28:39

Second stage was in front of the initial lady that I had my interview with when she had an interim role and I didn't get the role. She's the one that sent my CV to Sam. She was on the interview panel but I didn't realise until I switched my camera on. She switched hers on and we both started laughing. So it was her and another gentleman. So we're having this interview.

Speaker 1: 29:04

It's a competency based interview. It's a really thorough interview and this is where they tell me like about the projects, about the certain things that happened in the organization, where, like a consultant, like you know, like how consultancies work, where unless you have a big project, then they bench you and things like that. They have that same operating model in this organization. But she had in mind two particular projects that are huge for the organization high visibility, high value and these are the ones that they would consider that I would be probably better you know for anyway. So we're going through the interview and I'm thinking to myself whether I get this job or not. It's actually really good. I've gone through this process, especially with this type of organization, and this is the same woman. I didn't get the role in her team, so if I didn't get this role, fine, whatever. And at the end of the day, it's what you learn about yourself. Now I understand I want to specialise on where I want to specialise in what a perm would look like to me. So if this is what I take away from this, then that's great.

Speaker 1: 30:11

So then, after the call, after the interview, that second stage, now, probably three or four days later no, it was a week later, actually, yeah, it was a week later I get another email from HR and they say the actual director who I would have been reporting to has been promoted, and I looked online and that was true. So there's a new director coming in but it's internal but he's not based in the UK. However, that's who might interview with and I'm thinking, what is this? And it's a man. So I'm trying to come up to find much information, have my interview with him and he seems really lovely. But you can tell he's been there for a long time and he knows his stuff in so far as his stuff. But in the commercial contract field commercial contract consultant, all of that I don't know how extensive his knowledge is, so he needs like seniors who get it.

Speaker 1: 31:23

So he asked me more questions to do with my trajectory, where I see myself what do I want to achieve? Why, how do I want to get there? This, this and the third, and it was. It was a very different type of interview because no one's really asked me those questions before, at least not in a very long time, because I've been contracting and I didn't realise that Kay had overheard this third stage interview. Anyway, it was a very pleasant interview. It was nothing that caused me concern. I was very directed and directional in my questioning. I asked what type of manager is he? He doesn't. He can't be a micro manager because of where he's based, but he could if he wanted to be a dick, but he's not. I don't get that impression from him and I was really asking about difficult situations and things like that and because he's been in the organisation a long time, I need to know what that means to him. So I was asking those quite pointed questions anyway. So after the interview, now I don't hear anything for like four days. Then HR get back in contact with me and say we've got a proposal for you. I was like, okay, they sent me the proposal and the proposal is the salary, the package, the lot. Now you all know how I'm moving them, so I'm going to pause there.

Speaker 1: 32:51

After the first stage interview I emailed Sam, who had recommended me, and told him I had been progressed to second stage. He sent me a lovely email back wishing me luck when I was and he said that, oh, one of the panel members had told him because he'd asked about how I was going. So at every stage I let Sam know where I was because he put his reputation on the line to recommend me. Number one. He didn't have to do that. He didn't because when he offered me a role working on his team as an interim, I didn't take it. He could have swatted me. He doesn't know me. We had a 20 to 45 minute interview very many months ago. He just put his reputation on the line. That's what you did he did. He put his reputation on the line to recommend me and I was like in shock, to be honest, because no one's ever done that for me, no one I've had to do.

Speaker 1: 34:03

I do it all myself with, like my ancestors, as a one that paved the way and make it happen, but, as in a person that can say, ah, I didn't know. So the proposal was sent over to me and you all know I negotiate everything I do. I've got a negotiation masterclass. The blueprint is there. This proposal was so good. There was no effort me to negotiate because I came correct. Do you remember the first meeting our hands with the HR? He fully understood us cut. I'm moving, potentially as a, as a contractor, to a pub you need to make it worth my money from even to pay attention, and that's exactly what they did. So it wasn't just that. So, like you know, like when you, some organizations give you a golden handshake, a golden handshake is like a sign-on bonus, effectively. But this wasn't that. This was. This was different. This was a complete package that not only would benefit me but benefit my family.

Speaker 1: 35:15

So I had some time, took two days to think about it, pour over it, pray over it, spoke to K and then I said I I'm happy with this proposal in principle, but I would need to review the contract and HR. They know anyway, look at the position you're hiring me for. So I look through the contract. There was a couple of things I needed to verify with them. So, for example, during the HR meeting I had, they said to me that it was predominantly a remote role. What does predominantly mean? Please? Is it a remote role or is it not? Tell me that it's a remote role? So why is it not in the contract? Because what it's saying is this is your bait, they giving me a base office, but it doesn't say anything about remote.

Speaker 1: 36:08

So he then started to talk about their flexible working policy. I says well, if you're referencing a policy, I need to see it. Can you send it to me? So I says I need you to clarify to me what the mode of operating is for this role. And if you don't, if you kind of mend the contract to reflect it, because it's not your policy to do so, then I need to see your flexible working policy and how it operates on a granular level, and then I need you to clarify in an email what the expectation is. Now, anything via email agreed in an interview is not legally binding. But if you put it in writing and you in and that induces me to sign the contract, that's very different, because even though it's not legally binding, it's still. It still carries enough weight for me to show that I accepted this role because this is what you said. So I was alright cool because their flexible working policy is actually very good. And his email was hey, do they are? This role is a remote working role and the the requirement would be that if there is a business need to have a face-to-face meeting, for example with a client, that you would happily attend the client site to do so.

Speaker 1: 37:23

Now, I don't know about you lot. After my meetings I go home. I don't stay there to the end of the day so people can see that I've sat down and kept a chair warm. That's not me. I have got issue with that. So if there's a meeting at one o'clock, I will find my arse in London, go to the meeting once the meeting's finished and I've checked my emails and done whatever I need to do. I make my way home because I don't do rush hour. It's not good for my health. So I thought, alright, the email was very good, I put that in my folder.

Speaker 1: 37:55

Then they sent the formal offer and the contract went through. Everything. K said this is amazing opportunity, but what made it and a greater opportunity was because they're putting me on this two-year program to become director and the view is that I would manage the commercial contract function, which they are making global, in every region where they have offices and they want me to be the person to do it, to implement it, and I feel like that's where I'm at in my career. I'm at director level now, but I need to work on the soft skills associated with director level because you're gonna have direct reports and you all know I don't like people, so that's what I need to work on. I was really honest at third stage with the director that was interviewing me because his view was you're at director level, so you want to hire you as a senior, then we'll put you on this two-year program and you could finish it earlier and then we'll put you and I had that built into my contract, because I don't want lip service and I don't want you to come and show me documents I want in the contract. And they put in a contract. And they also said to me if at the end of the two years, I don't want to do the be a director and I want to stay as the senior in my position, they're happy for that too. But that's what they. That's their view of where they see my trajectory. So I took a few days, I signed the contract and I have now a start date. Your girl has gone perm.

Speaker 1: 39:44

It's been a huge decision for me to do it, but I think it's a great decision. I emailed Sam and I said Sam, nobody has ever done this for me before. I've had doors open for me but, believe me, I was banging down the door for the person to just open up a little bit and I forced my way in. But now is actually put their name or reputation on the line for somebody they hardly know and recommended me and I know that your name carries weight and I just want to thank you and I want to say that it's probably one of this nicest things somebody has done for me in my career. This role is career defining, career changing and I'm gonna learn so much.

Speaker 1: 40:31

But you gave me the opportunity and that is something I will never forget and I, my dad, always told me to show a thankful heart and I'll forever show a thankful heart for the opportunity you've allowed me to have in just doing something that was so selfless and that was recommending me. So Sam wrote back to me. He's like to. Yeah, I had no doubt in my mind that you would get this role. You are perfect for it. He goes. You know, I can't wait to meet you face-to-face because, again, we've never met face-to-face. I can't wait to meet you face-to-face and I can't wait for us to work together on certain things. And I'm really happy for you. And it was just such a nice email back. But it's always important to show a thankful heart.

Speaker 1: 41:14

So the HR manager I reached out to him to thank him for managing the process, because it was across like two weeks and I always knew where I stood. He always managed my expectations about time and stuff and he sent me a really nice email. He says you know, it's not many people that remember, was they? If they get enough for then. That's kind of the last you hear from them until, like they're onboarding and stuff, and he goes sometimes and he said it sometimes it can be a fabulous role because he says we rejects more than we hire. So I just know you're gonna have an amazing career here and I am so grateful that I've been part of that journey because I know you're gonna do amazing things and it. That made me feel amazing and he was, and he also said he was like I know how hard it is to make the transition to PEM, but you will just always adopt a contract on mindset and it was like I'd written it myself because that's exactly my approach to certain things. But I feel like, especially if you have stocks in a company, you also have a vested interest for them to do. Well, that's the truth. If you make the decision to go from contract to perm, I feel like you have a vested interest in yourself in terms of how you want to develop, because that in itself is huge In terms of consultation work and stuff. I'll still be doing ad hoc stuff, but I'm still a six-figure babe, so that's made me really happy.

Speaker 1: 42:36

I think also, as well, there are key things I feel that I wanted to communicate as like learnings, that you don't have to be the greatest networker to network. People think networking is just putting people in a room and hoping that they exchange numbers or have small talk, and I'm really shit at both. I don't want to exchange numbers, I'm really crap at small talk, but a lot of the contacts I have hasn't been because of networking. It just has been a follow-up of making an impression and being polite. People forget that likeability doesn't mean you always have to smile and it doesn't require you to lick someone's ass. It just requires you to have, like, a warm approach to doing things and people respect people who have boundaries but also who have integrity, and I always have told myself my integrity means a lot to me because I've worked to develop an integrity and I work hard to maintain it.

Speaker 1: 43:33

It's really important to also understand how to work with recruiters. I think external recruiters is different, but internal recruiters understand the lay of the land, so you get to ask questions and you get to really dig deep. Interviews I have always said, especially in the interview masterclass should always be mutual, because you're making a commitment, as are the company, but you have a right to also interview them to make sure that that's the right organization you want to make a commitment to. I think that there are positive and negatives of being permed and being a contractor and if you're looking to climb up the ladder really quickly and also make money, contracting is amazing. And I feel so confident in myself that if I hadn't gone into contracting I don't know if I would have progressed at the speed I have or at all, because it's also really easy to be stagnant when you are not in a position to take risks and pivot. But I think in everything I have done and shared my blueprint, I hope that it has been an example that you can. Also not everybody wants to have a family and children and in that case I think contracting is also great because you have freedom.

Speaker 1: 44:51

I think freedom is a really important point to discuss here, because freedom to be able to develop at your own pace I feel is more achievable when you're consulting or interim or freelance, because you're not then having to have the yearly objectives. You have personal objectives, you have a vision board, you have the ability to manifest what you want to happen for your career. You get to walk in the wilderness and figure shit out as a contractor in a way that I feel like you can't. When you're a perm. It's almost, I feel, like with a perm they put you into their structure of operating, especially when you've joined the world of work quite newly. But your objectives are yours and what you want to do or where you see yourself in your career doesn't have to be wedded to an organization. It should be wedded to what you want and that, to me, must always remain at the forefront. It's my career and what I want to do and where I want to do it, and then finding a succinct, collaborative way to do that with an organization I'm going to. All currently in.

Speaker 1: 46:00

I would say public, private and charity sectors have been where a lot of my experience has sat and I think there's good and bad in all different sectors. I think when it comes to sectors, it also is determined on your personality type and what you can manage. I feel like the different stages of my life I've been in the public sector, so a lot of my single life I was in the public sector and I feel like a lot of my single life, especially early on in my career, I was in the public sector a lot and then I spent a significant amount of time in the private sector, and it's good and bad in every sector, but I just feel like it depends on your personality, where you would like to specialize and then what industry you'd like to work in and for who. I will be the first person to say my dyslexia has always been a massive challenge for me, and I understood how to manage my dyslexia, about understanding how I learn and, yes, sometimes I do make mistakes, but it's about how you put measures in place to catch the mistakes or how you recover from them. Is it easy to be a career mom, a career woman and a mom? And I'm going to say it's hard. It's hard because you're juggling so much, you're thinking of so much, they're trying to create a life for your child, they're trying to create memories, and then you have the weekend and it goes so quickly.

Speaker 1: 47:26

So this is what I'm going to say to everybody I take my weekends really seriously. They're mine. Don't waste my time. I'm not here to waste anyone's time. The weekends are so important because it's only two days. Now, some organizations that I know have adopted a four day week in which that would mean that you have three days for a weekend, but the organization I'm in has not adopted a four day week, so Saturdays and Sundays are really really important. Sundays now is more for my daughter as well, because she does swimming every week. So to myself, I really only have Saturdays, and that's where I'm going to spend time with people I want to spend time with. I'm not going to spend time with, I'm not going to waste my time on anything that doesn't feed into my soul, because we spent a lot of time at work. So there has to be a balance somewhere and this is why, going on the journey I have done with life, discovery, family and things like that, I have meaningful relationships that mean something to me because I'll have a lot of time to waste.

Speaker 1: 48:29

For those of you who do not know, I'm also a school governor. Where I find the time? I do not know, but for me I have a vested interest, because now I have a daughter that will be going through the education system. That has changed significantly since I was a student here in the UK. It is a role that is, of course, not paid. It requires time that I don't have, but it also requires representation, and I say representation because I don't think that the black community is represented in a lot of the places where the decisions are made, and one of which is in the schools. That affects the next generation of our children coming up. So I do sit on suspension and expulsion boards. I do sit in the meetings I think it's three or four times a year from a particular school, and it's something that I feel like I want to give back, because I know how much school government is meant to me when I was growing up and it's also interesting how I could use some of my transferable skills in that particular position as a school governor, and it's a role that I take very, very seriously.

Speaker 1: 49:40

I don't know if you guys would remember about two years ago. Two years ago I shared with you how I recommended a friend for a role I'll never do it again and I kind of break down the learning lessons and kind of what happened. The reason why you should always sow a thankful heart is because you're sowing seeds and you don't know where you're going to harvest them. What that friend did to me and I'll link the episode in the show notes it hurt my soul because I had never used my contacts or had anyone close enough to me in my career to have affected the level of change that she could have and also I underestimated the fact that she was just not good enough. She was shit at her job. She wasn't good enough for that job and she wasn't good enough for the job because she didn't have the skillset she had blacked her way through. Now, when she was called out on it, she cries that she'd been bullied. You're not being bullied, you're bullying yourself, because you had an opportunity for me to cover you and you didn't want that. Because you were in the secret competition in your head. And whilst you're in the secret competition in your head, I'm ending six figures and you think that this is my only contract. I've got like two free contracts on the go and I'm buying a house. No one's checking for you, babes.

Speaker 1: 50:59

And it's come to my attention that this person seems to think that, as a friend, it's your duty to get your friend's job. And this is the reason why this girl's life is always like going round in circles and going round and round a circle that doesn't end, because you keep slapping people. When you couldn't pay your rent, I put food on your table. Yes, because when I put my reputation on the line for you, you got that job. You didn't get the job on the basis of your interview. Your interview was shit, hence why it was taking weeks for someone to get back to you, because my boss had already decided she wasn't going to offer you the job. I had to convince her to offer you the job.

Speaker 1: 51:43

Your first day, this girl's first date in the job, she sends me an email introducing herself and tells me what she's going to be doing. I said this is mad. I still got that email. I've got everything. There's one thing about me I don't talk unless I've got evidence. I've got evidence. The girl is fucking mad.

Speaker 1: 51:59

And I carried that on my chest, you know, because I felt really hurt, because for me, career was so important, and suddenly I'm putting my reputation on the line and I'm bringing someone too close and she fucked it up and she could have fucked me over, really fucked me over, but luckily my reputation and my integrity speaks for itself. And I always thought to myself why did I do this? Why did I do this? Why do I need to want to look after people? Why, what is it? I was so angry with myself for so long because for me I was like how do you show a thankful heart by slapping on both cheeks the person that took you out of the benefit queue. How do you do that? I can't do that. You know I don't have the heart. I would rather walk away in peace, because when you sow that seed it's like a boomerang and it's going to come back to you.

Speaker 1: 52:57

I've always said to everybody on this podcast when you do something with a clean heart and a clean hand, you will reap the blessing tenfold. It will happen when you are selfless in giving, when you give freely and someone slaps you, they'll be kicking you on the floor like you're a piece of shit. I promise you, in the moment it hurts the lessons you are learning. You don't know that you're learning them, but just know that when God's adventurer says His, it meant it when the ancestors witnessed that the way I was circled in my circle of protection, this girl was going up and down, up and down, and I had to hold myself because I know if I'm to talk I'll finish this girl. But it'd be too easy to finish her because, you see, people would look at it as me. They would not focus on what this person's done and I could sit there and lay out the evidence. But even for me. I'm thinking would I even feel good doing that, lowering myself in the pigsty with that dirty pig? No, I wouldn't, because I'm above that For me, I'm above the pigsty. But the biggest lesson I'll learn is this I'm quite happy to help, especially that's why I have the toy talks. This is what I'm doing but I'm never going to bring anyone close enough that when they shit, I can smell it. It's not going to happen. I give freely. You all know there are people that would testify, and have testified in my mailbox, how the platform has changed their life. I've done so many things behind the scenes and I know that I've been sowing that blessing, so I've got nothing to prove.

Speaker 1: 54:42

If you are unhappy at that job, why did you stay? If you were going through whatever you were going through, well, that don't make no sense, because when you left, all these supplies that weren't paid. You're angry with me. It's not anger, it's jealousy. And it's jealousy because you could see how respected I was in the team. I was senior, I was contracting there and you kept pushing me, asking me how much money I was earning.

Speaker 1: 55:15

I don't tell people that the only person that knows how much I earned is my man Jealousy. You don't demand the right, you earn it. I earn the right to be here because I've put in the work to get the stripes. Too many people don't want to put in the work, they just want to jump. Don't work like that, it does not work like that. Maybe I take my career too seriously, but it saved my life and because it saved my life I take it seriously. People can see him and say I earned this. I earned this.

Speaker 1: 55:50

But I'm telling you that the trajectory I've been on was not easy to get to where I am. But I am here and I'm doing what needs to be done and I continue to be a student of life. I never bite the hand that feeds you, otherwise you'll starve. This man doesn't know me, sam don't know me. From a tin of paint, 20 to 45 minutes of interview for a role I didn't actually accept, he put ease of reputation on the line. If that isn't a boomerang blessing, what is? And now my focus is getting to director. My focus is being there for my family, creating memories, and my focus is to continue to build the Toy Talks brand because I live by what I teach.

Speaker 1: 56:38

There's nothing that I've taught here, the blueprint I've given here that I haven't lived through. Do you understand? I have two heads. I just understand strategically how to get to the back. I understand strategically how to progress and strategically how to navigate white spaces. I've learned it. White dominated spaces, shall I say. I've often been the minority.

Speaker 1: 57:00

You guys can go through the podcast. Is it racism? Is it discrimination? Is it attempted bullying? Is it this? I've shared it. How I dealt with it, the result and we move, and it goes to show you that nobody is above these type of experiences.

Speaker 1: 57:19

But whilst we collectively, as black women, are here present to learn and grow, make sure that your hands are clean, because now this flipping greyhound looking pig yeah, you heard me While she's still there, god knows. I've left her. I left her long time. She's not even on my level to talk. She can't talk to me. We're not on the level before. I actually don't even want to be seen with you. You're a disgrace to yourself as a black woman in a space that has been so difficult, which is the world of work. You took poo from your bum and you smeared it on my face. Luckily, the ancestors wiped it all clean, wiped it away, cleansed me, cleaned me and said, for what you have sown, you will reap the blessing, and that's how it goes, by the grace of the ancestors. I hope that I will continue to add to my community, to teach my community, to give back, to support, share knowledge but, more importantly, to show the learnings, because we are all students of life and whilst you keep learning, you keep growing.

Speaker 1: 58:40

Now, to further add, we're on contracting at the moment. Of all the places I've contracted and consulted at, this contract is the best contract I have ever had, as the people I work with are really nice, it's a very peaceful environment and I think it's been a nice segue back into work post-maternity leave. I think they're going to be hugely disappointed because they just sent me a request to renew my contract until the end of the year, but when I balance the decision I've made versus what's offered to me, it's that risk is in it. As a contractor, I've been very lucky. I've always had contracts renewed over the last seven years that I've worked in different places, sometimes more than once.

Speaker 1: 59:28

But sometimes you're at the mercy of people's budgets and when you get to the end of a project, usually it goes into BAU, so you hand it back to the permanent members of staff to take it into BAU. The whole idea of contracting is you have a defined date when it's going to end or they may find another project for you and things like that, but when a project comes to an end, that's it. If, for example, my daughter's going to get chicken pox at some point, I'm going to have to take that off. When I take that off, I don't get paid. So I've had to really balance where my life is and also I'm a mother now and I think maybe when my daughter gets a bit older, maybe I could go back to contracting if I wanted to, depending on where everything is.

Speaker 1: 1:00:09

But I just feel like in the best interest of my family and I'm working for an organisation that fully understands work-life balance. It is one of their ethos, it's huge for them and certain things that I'm able to do to enable me to do my role is there. I can't I can't Listen for me to not be able to negotiate that contract, not negotiate sorry for me to not negotiate the package. Then you've got to know that they came to correct and this is why, when it comes to organisations, we steadily keep our foot on their necks, because there are some organisations that they are wild and mad, but there are some that understand the value of people. It does exist. It does exist, and there are organisations that you need to assert certain things Like if this is what I actually want, this is how we're going to negotiate to get what you want. Yeah, you're going to have to, and it's not that organisations often not all organisations want you on the cheap. It's not all of them, but they bank on you not knowing your value, and this is why I've taken the time to really explore and knowing your value. It's so important.

Speaker 1: 1:01:24

That being said, I'm going to have to tell my client, excuse me, I'm going to have to tell my client that I'm terminating and I am on a one week notice. That is mutual. So some of these organisations, when they give one week, they feel like they're doing something very empowering, not realising that the contractor can terminate too. So I'm on one week. I know they're going to ask for more, but I can only give them a week, and that's because I want a break in between ending this current contract and going into a new row. I need a week, especially because now I'm going back home. So I need a week and in that week I'm going to live my best life. I'm going to get two more tattoos, by the way. What else am I doing? I'm going to get my hair done. There's some TikTok restaurants I want to go to. I've got stuff to do in that week and then I need to rest as well.

Speaker 1: 1:02:16

I want to enjoy that week, so I'm very excited, so I'll take you around that week as well on my TikTok. I really just want a break. I want to have a bath. Yeah, you heard me. I've been just having showers because when I got pregnant, I could not get in that bath. I tried, but I want to be able. I haven't stretched my leg in a bath and, if you've been following me for a while, I loved bath. It was part of my, like soft life routine, but I don't have time. I'm on my mom on the go Honey, listen, getting in that shower and washing myself down. It has to be good enough. So the luxury of the bath will be enjoyed that week, but also as well.

Speaker 1: 1:02:54

I feel like it was really important for me to come and share this, because I've always been really open about journeys and things to think about, manifestation and being intentional. Do you know that this organization is on my vision board. Yeah, it's on my vision board and I'm very proud of how far I've come, because it's really hard for me to say stuff like that, but I am. But they still work to do. That's how I look at it. There's still things to do and there's still other stuff that I'm doing in the background as well. So, yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. That's kind of what I don't even know what to say. Always show a thankful heart, because if I had to send Sam that email, you know, after he had offered me the role, and then there was a few moments passed, and just said I was in a position to take the role, if I hadn't thanked him, would you have even remembered me to then recommend me? The answer is no. I would have left that bit of a sour taste in his mouth, but I did reach out.

Speaker 1: 1:04:11

Networking doesn't always have to be in a room, a network. I've got a Rolodex. Now I could go back contracting in five years, 10 years and, honestly, the industry would welcome me back because I still have my contacts and well, whether they'll be there or not is a different thing, but I know what I need to do. I feel like I'm ready to finish chapter in my life. I'm sure it's going to be met with. You know I'm going to have, there's going to be an adjustment period, but if there's anything I've learned from contracting is starting again and I said that at the beginning.

Speaker 1: 1:04:45

Right, and I'm really excited to be specialising in a particular area. I'm very, very and I do think well, I don't think I think for the first two weeks I'm going to be benched going to bench me, just like because I think that they've also accepted there's going to be adjustment period as well for me at being a contractor, and they've actually said that to me, which is great, because what needs not to be explained is understood. So there's that. But then obviously they've got projects in my company. So I'm really excited and I'm really looking forward to this chapter and I'm really looking forward to the course I'm going on for being a director, which is quite a perspective organisation, and I'm really looking forward to working here and remote working and going into client sites and the one I need to. I'm really looking forward to it actually.

Speaker 1: 1:05:43

So, yeah, I'm going to redo my office. I've decided I'm redoing my whole office. We're going to get our handyman to help us. So I just need to go and Pinterest and figure out what I want to do with this space, because my office space is in the awkward like it's awkward the layout, and in that week I'll probably just get stuff and then, while I'm benched, I'll get our job man to come and sort out everything. Can I get to go through all my paperwork and stuff like that? But yeah, that's kind of where I'm at.

Speaker 1: 1:06:17

I wanted to share the learnings and hopefully you guys have learnt from what I've shared and why and my full process and the strategy and everything like that. And I think it's also important and I say all the time having a vision board is the step of being intentional about your career and holding yourself accountable. You have to have personal objectives. I have an earlier podcast episode called you Are the Architects Of your Career, because you are and what is the architect? You are the builder of your career. You are the person that holds the pen and the forefront of designing what you want in your career.

Speaker 1: 1:06:54

I'm talking to you as somebody that I didn't know. I was dyslexic until university. I had done my GCSEs, I had done the first couple of years in uni, so there's no shortcut, especially as black women. There's no shortcut and representation matters. I understand that and I feel like, as black women, we've entered an era where the uncomfortable conversations are being had, but it's how we use these situations to catapult our careers to the forefront, how you hold organisations accountable for, for example, part of your probation. You don't have to progress in one company. Contracting told me that you don't have to do that. Contracting is very viable for those who want to scale and grow quickly, but then you are in charge of your additional learning that comes with that growth as well, because there's no structure around you to hold you accountable. You are the structure. Create the structure around you that you need to catapult your career.

Speaker 1: 1:08:18

If you want to follow me on social media, my TikTok account is Toya Washington. If you want to follow me on Instagram, my personal Instagram page is Toya underscore Washington. The Toya Talks Instagram page is Toya underscore talks. If you have a work or life dilemma or something related to both or one of and you want to share it, email hello at toytalkscom. You are the architects of your career.

Speaker 1: 1:08:44

Nothing in life worth having is smooth sailing, but it doesn't have to be a battle. A society that tells us we're not good enough and depicts black women in a way that makes us all uncomfortable. As we live in a world that continues to diminish the struggles of women and of black women, is often tiring to understand where we stand or where we can shine. For me, my career saved my life and my lowest point, when I felt like I had nothing. Work career provided a structure for me when I continued to understand how my career was moving. I understood the structures around me and the often restrictive structures to keep me in one place. I'm determined, I'm intentional, I believe I deserve the things I work hard for and, equally, I believe in strategy. My name is Toya Washington and you have been listening to the Toy Tools podcast.