#12 - Building Legacy and Cultivating Stewardship in Your Nonprofit with David Lopez

Take a step toward financial longevity for your nonprofit with David Lopez, a seasoned expert in cultivating cultures of generosity. In our enlightening chat with Dave, senior generosity strategy specialist at Generis, we explore the intricate tapestry of strategies that empower churches and faith-based organizations. You'll learn the ins and outs of nurturing sustainable financial ecosystems, ensuring that your mission thrives not just today, but for years to come.

Did you know that only a fraction of Americans are ready to manage their assets after they pass on? This startling truth brings us to the realm of estate planning and church investments, where we dissect the potential consequences of unpreparedness. Dave Lopez guides us through the looming wealth transfer, discussing the essential steps to safeguard your wishes, and the mission of your organization. We highlight the importance of estate planning as a vital component of financial stewardship, making sure that every dollar is aligned with your legacy and goals.

Finally, we venture into the evolving dynamics of giving and fundraising, from the bricks and mortar of real estate to the digital frontier of cryptocurrencies. Discover how a blend of time-honored methods and cutting-edge innovations can fortify the financial bedrock of your charity or nonprofit. We stress the pivotal role of storytelling in connecting donors with your cause and the collaborative strength that emerges when communities unite in facing challenges. Join us for this transformative journey, and let's maximize the impact together.

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Transcript

Collin: 0:08

Well, hey, what's going on? Welcome back to the non-profit Renaissance. We're excited to be jumping back in with a super special guest today. I'm one of your co-hosts, colin. This is H, and we are super excited today. So, h, why don't you tell us who we're with today?

Heredes: 0:24

Special friend, special guest, and you're in for a treat today and known him for over two decades, which has got so many stories. We may have to do an extended version of the podcast, but, yeah, pg, pg, yeah, pg, please. There's so many stories, but, pumph, because I know this episode's going to help you, listening right now and what you're doing, what you're trying to accomplish, the money you're trying to raise, the strategies you're trying to implement, but I'm going to let him tell you what he's up to these days, because he's got so many hats on that I forget what the latest one is, but he's done them all successfully and with great, great impact across the United States and beyond and abroad. Actually, because he's done it around the world, lived in Italy, he's done mission work across the world. But, ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, let's cue the applause for the one and only Dave Lopez. Welcome.

Collin: 1:10

Hey, I don't have my button on this one, so I'll put it in in post, don't worry. Thank you. Thank you guys. Good to go with you guys.

Heredes: 1:16

Big crowd.

David Lopez: 1:17

Big crowd.

Heredes: 1:17

Yeah, big crowd. Currently senior generosity strategy specialist at Generus. Yeah Right, Tell what does Generus do? What do you do there? And then we'll start.

David Lopez: 1:27

So Generus helps churches in the space of financial development, if you will. Advancement, basically to help churches, and not just churches, but like faith-based nonprofits schools, university seminars, k-12s, whatever thrive financially. Almost always they're calling us to figure out hey, we need to expand something, grow something, build something. How do we do that? We help them navigate those pathways. Every single entity is different because of context or culture, so we learn a lot about both and then we craft a pathway and then we journey with you through that pathway, man.

Heredes: 2:00

So do you show up and you just give them money. That's what you do. No oh okay, so just make that clear.

David Lopez: 2:05

Because here's the thing.

Heredes: 2:05

Not that easy.

David Lopez: 2:06

We could do that and I guess we could, but I would not be the best consultants for that right. I guess we could, but really the point is you can get a gift, but if you don't know how to steward it not just now but for the long haul then what's the point? And so a lot of times, especially like in the West, the concept of fundraising is I need to build something now and then that's it. That's not how you build culture, that's how you create a project. No one's life is changed when you build a project. I mean, yeah, we have hospital, whatever. But if you can't sustain that for, like, the next iteration of whatever the ministry or organization is going to be, then you didn't really grow and your capacity to impact lives is either hit a lid or it's diminishing.

Heredes: 2:49

Listen, we're going to get into some more fundraising tips and hacks and tricks and legal and illegal, so stay tuned. This is going to be one minute, hey, yo.

Collin: 2:57

That's the other, the ladders for our subscription, our subscribers Patreon, Patreon. We have a Patreon, we're going to start a Patreon just for this episode.

David Lopez: 3:03

No we don't, we don't.

Heredes: 3:05

But no, just some context.

David Lopez: 3:05

That's how you fundraise. By the way, we're doing it. You're welcome there it is. We're done, guys. Thanks for the opportunity.

Heredes: 3:12

But, dave, just some context for our listeners. You've been an executive pastor, you've been church planter, started churches you know, have led at high level missionary, international missionary, have led nonprofits. I remember Hope for Miami, caring for Miami, a donor, developing writing grants. Your experience in it has been intense. Give us a little insight on what you're doing today through Generus, what you're also doing through some of the other organizations and nonprofits you're involved in.

David Lopez: 3:39

So I live in a couple of different spaces. One is consulting through Generus and that's where, again, nonprofits, churches, helping them thrive to meet their God-sized vision. I get to partner with other entities. One is, in particular, florida Baptist Financial Services, so it's still in the area of stewardship, but it's a very different thing. So it's not capital campaigns and those kinds of things. This is more estate planning and church investments, that kind of a thing. Most of the time churches are trying to figure out how to make it.

David Lopez: 4:06

Week to week, the estate planning conversation or end of life plan is not checkers but chess. It's long-term strategic planning. So helping people think about a plan, a will, a trust, what makes sense the data tells us that about. I think it's like 14% of the US population has a plan for when they go home. I don't know about you, but everyone's going to go home. Jesus went home. He's the one who came back, but even he went home and if you don't have a plan in place, I'm sorry. 14%. 14% has a plan. That means 86 do not right?

David Lopez: 4:38

So when I'm in a room with a handful of people, it's like, hey, there's a hundred of us, 15 might put their hands up, right, but here's the hard part about it. Usually the intent is I want to leave something to my kids, to the people I love, ministries et cetera. But if you don't have that clearly spelled out, the government has a plan for your stuff and usually it's not including those people first, if at all. So I do some consulting with them in that space Always exciting Right now serving as a senior pastor as well. Cornerstone, miami church started about eight years ago. Shout out Co-vocational from day one. That's kind of been the design on purpose.

Collin: 5:16

I'm a dad, a husband and yeah, you're giving me anxiety, man Right, it's because you're a slacker, Colin.

David Lopez: 5:22

You're not.

Collin: 5:24

Listen. Well, that's next episode. But oh man you got a lot going on, man.

David Lopez: 5:31

But it's one of those where you look at the last 15, 20 years and figure like how did we get here? When you look back, it's like, okay, god's been working and building us to get us to this spot. Yeah, a lot of learning, a lot of mistakes, that's how we get here.

Heredes: 5:45

There you go. Well, let's jump right in there. End of life, giving planning. So who's end of life? The person, the organization, both?

Collin: 5:53

Yeah, because those don't intuitively seem to go together. You've got capital campaigns for like a church and then end of life planning, and you know so you know, how does that all fit together?

David Lopez: 6:04

Yeah. So I man, I would encourage everyone to kind of take a step back from it and just recognize that at the top of it it's a stewardship conversation. Sure, all of it is right. So we tend to to like put it into like clean pots. It's a will or it's capital campaign and before any of it, it's a stewardship thing. And so if it really is a stewardship chat, that's long term, that's really culture shaping, culture building for me and the generations that are going to come. Honestly, they don't necessarily have to be so distinct. If you're doing a capital campaign, you'll find that a lot of people may not be able to have huge gifts today, but they can all make a huge gift when they pass, and so there's a way to connect those dots to a bigger vision. But those gifts won't come unless you learn to have those chats, which man I went to seminary at, like almost every level, and here's what I know that conversation of stewardship, generosity, estate planning, end of life stuff, like there's no class on that, right yeah.

Collin: 7:03

So for just real quick, for those who maybe the word stewardship is not in their everyday vocabulary, that is, that can be a very a church word Give, like give a 30 second. What do you? When you say stewardship, what do you really mean?

David Lopez: 7:16

So what I'm talking about is God has entrusted everybody, in every space of life, with responsibilities. Sometimes it's a relationship, sometimes it's stuff. We're all called to manage those things and here's how we know we're not owners, but managers. When we go home to be with Jesus, we leave it all behind. None of it is ours Right. So how do we manage or steward our marriages, our kids? But how do we manage and steward our work and the responsibilities entrusted to us in those places? And then, from the resource that God gives to us to build or to grow our own personal or professional ministries, how do we manage and steward that? Resources, finances, relationships, that kind of a thing Great.

Heredes: 7:56

Great, Dave, give us a little bit of the secret sauce here. So we're not paying you for this. I don't think right.

Collin: 8:02

Colin, I'm not, that's not, you know, that's not. I don't just make sure, okay, Just making sure that at all yeah.

Heredes: 8:09

For CFOs listening. Let them know.

Collin: 8:10

They would never allow me to get close to that.

Heredes: 8:14

Some tips. So if a leader is listening right now and that has not crossed their mind, yeah, we were talking, I think, in the next 20 years are we talking billions or trillions of money?

David Lopez: 8:23

Yeah, in the next, actually, when the boomers pass right In the next 15, 20 years, they're anticipating about 32 to 35 trillion passing from one generation to the next.

Heredes: 8:34

And where would that go? Yes, right, exactly. So yeah, that's the question to answer.

David Lopez: 9:03

Yeah, it is the question. It says the government has a plan.

Collin: 9:06

I think I know their plan with that number. So every now and then you'll hear people talk about the death tax.

David Lopez: 9:10

That's what they're referring to, because you've already paid taxes and all this stuff and for your kids to get it, they're going to have to pay taxes on it again, because they view it as earned income, not a gift. But if you have a plan in place, it's a gift that either has minimal tax implications or, depending how you structure it, none Right. So there's ways around that.

Heredes: 9:29

Okay. So what do I need to tell my dad and my grandpa right now? Yeah, here's what I would encourage.

David Lopez: 9:34

Every like church leader and every nonprofit leader. If you're part of a denomination, your denomination probably has some kind of a foundation attached to it. Reach out to them, find out what they do. Most of the time they can come in and do like seminars, education and those kinds of things and they do a lot of the back end heavy lifting. Usually we don't get into that space because we don't know what to do. It's regard it has a lot of legal stuff. That's what they do.

David Lopez: 9:59

If you are a church that's non-denominational or a nonprofit that's not connected, there's larger entities that do these kinds of things. National Christian Foundation is a national entity, ncf, philanthropy Corps, a few others that just kind of play cross tribes man. Reach out to them. They can help you guys get those things set up on the back end. And just an FYI, the data also tells us that if you make an appeal, about 40% of the people will give something to the appeal. So I can't tell you how big it is. But there's a colleague of mine that was working with a hospital and their average gift when people pass was about $70,000, because people have life insurance for a million dollars but they don't have access to it now, but when they go home people leave stuff. Well, 50 gifts of 70K praise God, that's nice.

Heredes: 10:44

So that's an incentive for them to leave? Is that what I'm hearing?

Collin: 10:49

No, I can't wait for them to die. You missed it, man. You missed it. Yeah, I'm sorry.

Heredes: 10:53

All right, conspiracytheorycom. That explains a lot.

Collin: 10:57

So okay, so break it down, just in case it's not clear enough yet, break it down. Why is that important for something? Why does that go beyond someone's just own personal finances and personal decisions? If you have the heart of, I want to impact, I love non-profit. Why is it important for people to start thinking this way now?

David Lopez: 11:18

Yeah, so I think what I would tell. I'll tell you what I tell people when I do some of these kind of workshops. Your biggest gift to the kingdom hasn't happened yet.

David Lopez: 11:31

That's good, your biggest give actually happens on the day you go home. You just don't know it yet. But without a plan in place, it will. You will not. Your plan of kingdom impact will not be honored without clarity. Your kids don't know and your grandkids don't know what's in here, or in here right, without having something clearly laid out. And the other thing that I would challenge is like Colin, do you have kids? I do. I got two kids.

Collin: 11:57

Okay, eight, you got five Like 13, so five, Okay so far. He's chasing the picture he's working out there.

David Lopez: 12:05

Yeah, men like credit, yeah, for the next one. But one of the things that I would encourage you guys to think about is kid number six or kid number three, and people are like which kid is that? Leave something to the church that's going to reach your grandkids or your great grandkids. Leave something to the kingdom, and so usually it's not going to impact how much I'm going to leave to all of my kids, but leave something, right? Yeah, that's that's where I would encourage people to think. And your nonprofit or your church. I just want you to know that if people have a heart space for you, they probably have a heart space for things you do. People don't give normally because we don't ask well. Yeah, usually it's like a really bad ask or a really cheap ask. But if you can ask well through relationships and through good language and conviction and vision, people will leave something now, but they'll leave something bigger when they do go home.

Collin: 12:55

Can we talk about that? Ask, Because you know, I'm envisioning maybe kind of like a pushback of like how could you ask someone to do it or how could like talk about that? How do organizations, organizations, do that in a, in a, I don't know, maybe not offensive way, but in a way that like that really calls someone up to something. You know, does that make sense?

David Lopez: 13:17

Absolutely, man. One of the things that I encourage the folks that I work with to always think through whether it's the campaign ask or the end of life ask or the bigger appeal somewhere in between. People give for two reasons. One, they give because there's a clear, compelling vision and then, two, there's permission because of a relationship right. So the worst thing you can do is ask someone and not have permission to ask, because they're going to look at you and go.

David Lopez: 13:42

Hmm, hmm, hmm, they do it every day at my door and I'm like right Because you don't have that right, even if the vision was awesome, it's like Don't know. You get away from me. Nonprofit leaders and ministry leaders spend countless hours crying, consoling, ministering, serving, caring for it, building like a bucket of trust because of relationships, because of conversations, because of gatherings, because of service projects the whole nine. And In nonprofit world and in church world we ask all the time Can you come and help? Can you come and serve? Can you come and lead? Can you come and follow up Whatever? And if people didn't want to, they would say no, but they choose to.

David Lopez: 14:27

To be honest with you, we leave a lot of research on the table because we're like man I already asked for so much. Listen, if that's the hesitation, here's what I would caution everybody because it's a normal hesitation that I know comes from a good place, but I think it's theologically upside down. Jesus asks for our time, he asks for our talent and we do great jobs in church and in ministry asking for both. But when it comes to the talent piece right, or the treasure piece, that's where we're like. Here's what I would say if he doesn't have your time, he doesn't have you, and if he doesn't have your talent, he doesn't have you and if he doesn't have his, your treasure, he doesn't have you. Part of our call as ministry leaders, regardless of the space, church or nonprofit, is to invite people into the pool Because, again, end of life. But it's also what God does in our current lives that changes and transforms us. That's part of that culture piece.

Heredes: 15:26

That's. That's that's great insight. And, dave, we spoke a little bit about his state and about property. Dive into that a little bit. You know we talked about thinking, thinking in centuries and this is a place where you know Catholic Church in the past has done great and thinking in centuries Not just thinking for the moment, temporarily, but holding on to property and holding on to that legacy that they've now left behind, including a city right, they've got a whole city, vatican, in their name and not too far from here. Not too far, yes exactly.

Heredes: 15:54

So tell us about that and any insight on that on from folks. Donating that to a cause or cause is getting rid of those in the moment Without long-term thinking.

David Lopez: 16:07

Yeah, I mean. So when it comes to like real estate and property like that, you'll be surprised what people have. You've heard people say I'm cash poor but real estate rich, or something like that. When they do pass, it's not uncommon to see somebody leave something to a ministry or a church, a house or a Field or something. All that is real. Again, if you don't ask, the answer is always no Sure. So, yeah, I'd encourage you guys to ask what people give or what people leave. That's between them and Jesus. But if you don't make the appeal, I'll tell you you'd be shocked who leaves what.

David Lopez: 16:43

And All the time people will leave all sorts of stuff where you'll go, huh, a Mickey Mano baseball card, that's where it's. Six grand Holy cow baseball card, praise God. Or 100 acres in the middle of the state that Lenard is hoping to jump on. But they can't because now the valuation of this is up and who knows what, and it gets left to your nonprofit or to your church and what they do with it. You know that's their business in terms of selling stuff. Listen, I, everyone's free to do what they're called to do. I'll just tell you my personal opinion this is not professional.

Heredes: 17:19

Yeah, our lawyers have told us to say that, so yeah.

David Lopez: 17:24

I listen. Here's what I would say. I would encourage nonprofits and churches to reconsider, like different uses of space. It's not uncommon where, let's say, somebody has a hundred acres oh, we don't need a hundred acres, I know, but somebody does. It's easy to take money today, but recognize and I would say this to all nonprofit and church leaders that once you sell it, the likelihood of you being able to buy it again is not high, because equity continues to grow and price valuation grows with it and, as it does, not only did our footprint shrink, but our ability to have a permanent footprint Right to set a physical legacy of whatever church or ministry is gonna look like. That's almost gone because we took a quick, you know 15 mil or 5 mil or 200 grand or whatever it is when you can think about reutilizing that space for a better and higher use.

David Lopez: 18:17

There's an organization I've worked with in the past that there was a church that had like 20 acres but they only needed five and so they actually brought this group in and we can talk about this group off offline after.

David Lopez: 18:29

But they came in and they did an assessment of best and highest use of the property and what they told the church was listen, tap into your equity and put an ALF on the furthest side of your building an ALF. Churches aren't in the business of ALF. He said, just put it on there, we'll bring in a charter entity to manage it for you. Now the church not only owns that piece of property, they own the alf, and so the valuation of that corner has gone up. But annually the ALF pays rent to the church Mmm. So the church not only did not lose their footprint, but now they've got income coming in from a different place to do more ministry that they could not do before without giving up any of their footprint. I would just say church is nonprofits. Listen, before you sell anything, just do the hard work of what's the best and highest use. I know there's money on the table, but again it might be a short. It might be a short term gain and a long term loss.

Heredes: 19:24

Yeah, and surround yourself with something, someone entrepreneurial, with experience that's gonna look at generating, you know, long-term revenue and an income, not just someone who knows what an ALF is because I know what it is. People. They may not know. That was for you guys. Why don't you tell them what it is?

Collin: 19:41

He was. He's correct on that. It's just a living facility is what that is or a soul.

David Lopez: 19:46

Alps in my Googling, hey Siri.

Heredes: 19:57

So let's say, Colin and I we're setting up our, our CNH foundation. We got about half a mil got us going. We're helping children specifically ours Get fed.

David Lopez: 20:13

Because, we got seven between us.

Heredes: 20:14

So it's that foundation. We have a basketball team, yeah, and it costs a lot of money. What up? Give me the tips, the tricks, the hacks. What's the latest? You're out there seeing what organizations are doing, what churches how they're raising. Is it still Krispy Kreme donuts? My question number one, and if not, give us a top three, give us a top three.

David Lopez: 20:32

Yeah. So I would say there's some overlap in church world and I think there's some distinctives from church world and nonprofit world, right. So some overlap is wealth is not distributed equally. Now, you may not like that sentiment, I just want you to know. Matthew 25, jesus tells us a parable about three dudes. One guy had five talents, one guy had two and one guy had one. And, by the way, just for full context, that chapter is about the return of Jesus, like there's a parable before it and a parable after it. And then he throws this parable about stewardship in the mix.

Heredes: 21:07

I'll take, so equality.

David Lopez: 21:09

Well, no, here's what he's saying. I'm coming back, but before I do, what you do with your stuff matters significantly, right? Anyway, back to the five, the two and the one. Jesus didn't say it's not fair and we gotta overthrow the system. Here's what he said. I'm expecting different results, but I'm expecting equal obedience. Right To not call people whether they're low income, middle income or upper income to some kind of response and obedience is not on them, but it's on us as the nonprofit ministry leaders, right, but that also implies that we know who they are. So hot, take number one. If you're trying to grow a lot of money really quick, it's not gonna be through 100 people giving 50 bucks. It's probably gonna be through about five people giving 100 grand. There's a lot of different ways to do that in terms of tactics, but again, some of it boils down to relationships and then permission. Do you have a clear and compelling vision for C&H foundation? Besides, my kids are hungry.

David Lopez: 22:09

That's very clear and very compelling to us and it might be but like why should I care about C&H?

Heredes: 22:14

right, yeah, sure, because they may date your daughter one day.

David Lopez: 22:18

They might, but if. C&h foundation is still there, I'm gonna say, sweetheart, that's not the man of God for you. No, yeah, so you can do the Krispy Kreme, right, and it's always easier to do that. But I will tell you, you're gonna spend 30 hours of work where, if we spent those same 30 hours having critical conversations with, let's say, our mid tier donors and top tier donors, are potential people. Man, your return is gonna be more than, oh, man, we made a couple hundred bucks on.

David Lopez: 22:51

Krispy Kreme or spaghetti dinners or whatever else we wanna try, and I think that's one thing that would be true for both nonprofit and church world. Here's what the data tells us 10% of your donor base gives about 70% of the whole. Say that again 10% of your donor base gives about 70% of the whole, Nationwide.

Heredes: 23:08

you still see that.

David Lopez: 23:09

Man. We have seen it in white collar, blue collar, we have seen it in red churches, blue churches. We have seen it in inner city, urban, sub-urban, rural, and it doesn't matter if it's white church, black church, hispanic church, asian church, indian church. It's like everybody got the memo.

David Lopez: 23:25

When it comes to giving, 10% of your donors give about 70% of the whole. Then 30% of your donors give about 25% of the whole. Those are your most involved volunteers, usually right, your staff, your deacons, and then everybody in between, maybe your board members and your most committed volunteers. That's them. And then 5% of your donors give about 60% of the whole, which is crazy because that's your pool of largest potential donors who contribute the least amount, which means intuitively and I would caution everybody. Here's the second thing I would tell you Every church or ministry or nonprofit has at least four unique donor audiences your high capacity, your mid-level, your low-level and the not yet right. So there are people who are probably in your space that like you or like what you do, but they haven't engaged yet. Usually our appeals fall flat because we're talking to one audience, assuming that everybody's part of that audience, and they are not.

Collin: 24:26

Right, the audience says you have money. But yeah, that's about it.

David Lopez: 24:30

Right, and even then, what we know is, while 10% of our donors might give to the largest, the data also suggests that they might be giving one to 2% of their annual income to charitable causes. Collectively, their five is just so big that we're like, oh, of course this guy's generous, he gave 200 grand last year.

David Lopez: 24:52

Man, he must be like oh man, if the guy makes 50 million like, that's the guy gave like 10 minutes worth of work to you and to your ministry or church, because either he's not committed to the clear, compelling vision that may be lacking or the relationship to invite him deeper isn't there yet.

Heredes: 25:10

Yeah, so what I got is that 10% of the people eat 70% of the Krispy Kreme's is that right?

Collin: 25:20

Yeah, you're still trying to feed your kids, right?

Heredes: 25:21

now I'm still trying to get the.

Collin: 25:22

Krispy.

David Lopez: 25:23

Kreme's. Yeah, C&H is not gonna take off, guys.

Heredes: 25:27

Latest in technology. Dave, you've been at it for a long time. You've seen it evolve. You used to trade cattle and now you're crypto the days.

David Lopez: 25:36

Cattle to crypto.

Collin: 25:37

How's your cattle crypto?

Heredes: 25:39

How's your dodge coin, your doge coin?

Collin: 25:42

Well, it's not going anywhere. Your MooCoin, is that a thing yet?

Heredes: 25:45

That's how I transitioned into it. Now let's talk about the future, the now on some of that. How do organizations set themselves up, Want to receive that? I've heard some tell me oh, that's shallow, I'm not gonna do that. I feel like you're leaving stuff on the table and not offering opportunities for folks to contribute, whether it's crypto or other forms of including end of life giving.

David Lopez: 26:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So here's usually how that chat goes. When was the last time you wrote a check to an organization?

Collin: 26:15

So A what?

David Lopez: 26:16

Exactly. When was the last time that you gave meaningfully through cash? And usually that number starts to diminish, right? So how do you normally give today? And then it quickly turns to online. That's like the new paper give. It's a digital give, but it's online. There's a percentage of people that are starting to migrate towards, let's say, a text to give or those kinds of options, and then you've got the crypto stuff. Here's what I would encourage anybody who's thinking longterm, right. So this is like again we're playing checkers every week. How do I pay the bills this week when we should be playing checkers and chess longterm your newer, emerging donors who are young. It's normal to them. It may not be normal to you, but if really the hope is to feed hungry kids, then I don't care how the resources come in. But then you have to raise the question do you want to feed hungry kids today or in 40 years too?

Heredes: 27:15

That's good.

David Lopez: 27:16

So you've got to create avenues for all kinds of donors to engage with you, and to recognize that some will engage through paper, some will engage through digital, some will engage through online, some will engage through a few different ways. However they choose to engage, though, you've got to have an appropriate response for them, right? So is it just that tacky like hey, thanks, no goods were exchanged for your gift man? That is transactional giving, not transformational at all. So there's got to be more of a. We got to curate our language, and then we've got to curate the follow-up, whether it's a text, an email, a phone call or a handwritten letter, or a combination of the three, which, by the way, the handwritten letter in the days of automation, it's money. When was the last time you got a handwritten letter from anybody? Could you imagine? Cna tries to letter to Dave Lopez for feeding their seven hungry, ungrateful kids, right?

Heredes: 28:07

I'm gonna have my kids write it for them. Seriously, dear sir, I'm not hungry today. Thanks and cray on yeah.

David Lopez: 28:13

But could you imagine, right, if you get that letter handwritten by someone that says hey, I took some time today to just say thanks, we saw the gift that came in. No one gives by accident, man. I appreciate you. And then do like a sequential follow-up that's integrated Back to the crypto man, I would encourage everybody. This is where your foundation or entities usually can process crypto for you, because they can treat it similar to stock, so they'll receive it, liquidate it and then send you back. Whatever the evaluation is of that particular day in which it got liquidated, have it available, have it available. You're not gonna necessarily see like oh man, we got 50 people, but one crypto transaction on average is about five to 10K. When it comes in the form of a donation, and it's usually because there's evaluation I got a sell piece or I got a bonus and so, boom, I'm giving some of it away.

Collin: 29:08

So that's a legitimate. That's a legitimate thing that organizations should, at the very least, be looking into. Is what you're saying crypto and that?

David Lopez: 29:18

Man, so I would put all the giving options on the table. Sure, 30 years ago, people would have said man, I don't feel like giving online because it's not trustworthy. And I get it because 30 years ago, like I don't know, this is the new. I don't know, but it did not stop. What occurred and what we can tell if we forecast and look into the future, is it's not going away. What happened with FTX and all that is a speed bump in the crypto convo, but it's not a road block. That's not going away. Bitcoin got stronger because everyone moved their stuff and put it into Bitcoin.

Heredes: 29:52

It validates. It actually validates? Yeah, for sure it does.

David Lopez: 29:56

If you look at what the US government is doing, they have the USD, their own version of digital currency. That's not the dollar, it's their own version of crypto. They're doubling down on it. Quietly, go to some homework, it's not going away. It's there, it's not going away. I think it'll be the new iteration of other ways to give. When checks go the way of the dinosaur, eventually one falls off, but when it does, one comes on Sure.

Heredes: 30:22

It's a great spot for our sponsor, coinbase. Thank you for that Robinhood. Yeah VJ, okay VJ. So okay.

Collin: 30:29

Chris Lee Cree we're trying.

Heredes: 30:32

We're all over the place. Take a sip and get a good drink. Yeah.

David Lopez: 30:38

Ready, ready, hold on Fiji Filter tap water From the mountains of Hawaii, Refresh your tomorrow. I did have a question Colin, before we go.

Heredes: 30:50

Because I've helped with campaigns. You know capital campaigns, with building campaigns, with fundraiser gallows and from million dollar goals to, you know, 15 million dollar. You know achievements which are super successful. The old school I was always told that organizations big business, that they're not going to go digital, that they're going to want to write a big, fat check and the envelope needs to be massive so they can fit that envelope Legit. And sometimes that's proven true. Sometimes that hasn't been the case Now, because have you seen any of that? Is that so true? A big business, they need to give a million dollars to that. They're going to do it in a paper check.

David Lopez: 31:24

So when you say big business, you're talking about like a corporate sponsor.

Heredes: 31:27

Corporate sponsor. They're going to write it, yeah.

David Lopez: 31:29

I mean they have to. It's part of their feel good approach of what they do.

Collin: 31:33

It's not a lot of publicity when you hit the send. You know on your computer.

Heredes: 31:36

No, and I'm not even talking about the PR approach, the PR stunt of showing the big check and somebody holding it up in the photo op, literally that they're going to have to print and sign and get four board members to sign it, correct.

David Lopez: 31:51

And per their governance and bylaws for sure.

Heredes: 31:52

Because I've seen that and again I've seen it at play. One time it cost the organization I was working with, I think, $5,000 more to get these envelopes in hand and I was like really we need to spend that $5,000, and it yielded an additional $200,000 because that came through those envelopes which at one point was not going to be, you know, I was just curious if that's still the case.

David Lopez: 32:10

Yeah, but again, remember, this is where knowing your audience, right. So we talked about different. What I did not talk about is the corporate side of stuff. So in the corporate game, fundraising there is totally different than talking to humans, right, because you're now. You're talking to humans who run an organization or some type of for profit entity, their values, their approach, their PR. What do they get out of it?

David Lopez: 32:33

Like it's never just a one way give, usually with a corporate sponsor like Fiji, right, it's usually like, hey, we have to have product placement or we are your go to paper company, dunder, mifflin or whatever you're going to do. So there's more of a give and take in those kinds of relationships and you know it takes a little bit longer to cultivate those. Historically they're not massive unless there's a key relationship with the executive director, the senior pastor or a key trustee or board member who is either the boss of this corporate entity or sits in a high position of trustees within those groups. Other than that they're going to be like 2,500 bucks and it's Christmas time and we get 50 checks out. Man, I've gotten those in the past where you know company X gave out a million dollars but in a thousand gifts.

Heredes: 33:19

Yeah, they diversified, they spread it.

David Lopez: 33:21

For sure they can say look at all of the good that we did. Through all of these we helped to serve 60 million people with 2,500 bucks each. Okay, whatever helps you sleep, I'll tell you this for all of the time and effort that it goes into cultivating those, if you spent that much time with high capacity individuals, you would 10X your result, your gift response much quicker. That's good Much quicker.

Collin: 33:49

You talked about Gen Z in the coming generations. You talked about, you know, becoming more modern in your currency. So, outside of that, what do organizations, churches and nonprofits need to be doing to capture Gen Z and millennials Outside of like? Just get with the times, I guess you could say. How else should they focus on securing this large group that's coming into adulthood, you know, as potential, future and current donors?

David Lopez: 34:24

Yeah, I think that's a great question. I think this is why organizations like yours matter. The future is storytelling. It's funny. It's almost like we're going back to the days of cave people, where we're not preliterate, but we are in a post-literate culture. So the storytellers are the people who will shape the future. In the same way that, when we were illiterate, we passed down history through story, history is going to be created through storytelling again. The best storytellers are going to be the ones who will be able to capture the minds and hearts of people.

David Lopez: 34:57

If you look at some of the things happening today, on who's on what side, or whatever, it's because there's a narrative that's being spoken, and whoever does the best job telling that story goes. I captured the biggest audience, true or not? It does not matter, right? I think that's going to be a key way. So what is the story we're telling? How are we telling it and like what are the different avenues? I for sure think that what you guys do in terms of like media, multimedia, the different avenues and all that, whether it's digital video, online all that is essential. I honestly think, too, the kneecap to kneecap conversation is right now being underplayed, but it has so much impact. Man Time. Time is the currency of the day where I'm going to spend an experience with you. Hey, we're going to go somewhere fishing for like four hours and we're going to rub shoulders to shoulders and potentially not catch anything, but share a life and then cast vision and then share a life again and in that moment, tell we're going to create a memory around a bigger story. Boom.

David Lopez: 36:03

I think for a lot of our younger folks coming into, creating a space for them to engage and see how their stories fit into the big story of your ministry or nonprofit is a big, big key to it as well. If people cannot see themselves in whatever it is you're trying to do, they don't identify. The faster they can see themselves, the faster they go. That's my story too. I want to be a part of something like that and then inviting them to give right, inviting them to be a part of that, and some of the things that I would encourage nonprofits and leaders. So there's a lot of easy things to consider that we've learned. So, whether you do Disney Plus or Netflix, there's a subscription approach in the nonprofit world. I'd encourage everyone to look at easy on ramp ways so that no one has to feel like I can't give a lot, so I won't do a lot To activate and engage right.

David Lopez: 36:51

Absolutely. It's like hey, what would it look like to become a CNH family partner? Well, what does that mean? Man, for 10 bucks a month, you can do this, this and this. That's a Really man. Is that transformational to everybody? No, but it's a starting point, right, and that's the essential thing. We got to remember that giving is a lifelong journey, so you don't arrive and everybody's at a different place within that journey. Some people just need to start. Well, if the goal is tithe or give significantly on day one, fat chance with any of that, get out of here, dude. Like nobody did that with any other spiritual discipline on day one, nobody said I'm a master prayer warrior on day one.

Heredes: 37:32

Well, Colin, you claim right, Maybe he did. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David Lopez: 37:34

Of course. So we got to treat it like a discipline, which means there's a first step and then there's a next step. We got to help, would say our nonprofits and churches and ministries Honestly craft that language of what is your generosity pathway look like? What is the next step for people to take? You don't even have to attach a dollar amount to it. People are smart enough to know that's my next step. So it's got to change what I give or what I do. So for nonprofit space, I think there's a there's a pathway for that. I think.

David Lopez: 38:04

In the church space, I'd encourage you guys to give people permission to start good. There's a lot of people who live with guilt, who go to church, who know they should give or, and they don't, because either they don't want to or they feel like they should give more and they can't because they're overwhelmed. Just start, doesn't matter. Listen, there's no recession in heaven. Like the chickens and the hens and the eggs don't cost more there. Start because it's less about the amount and it's more about what God is doing here in terms of asking you to To trust him wherever you may be, and then, when people do take a step, recognize it. So one of the adages that I learned Ministry, like people, replicate what you celebrate. It's good. So when someone takes a step, especially when it comes to giving to your ministry, your church or nonprofit, recognize it and celebrate it.

Heredes: 38:53

You're sorry, Tell the story yeah no one gives by accident.

David Lopez: 38:56

I think I said that already. So, man, here's one of the things that I would encourage Ministry leaders and nonprofit leaders. Colin gives five bucks to CNH and I'm the ed or the pastor of CNH. I'm gonna call him after I've written him a handwritten note. So this is part of my sequence, right about two weeks after I know he's gotten the note. Hey man, this is Dave from CNH. Hey, did you get the letter? Yeah, man, cool thing, man. I just wanted to call and say thanks and I can ask you a question. I promise you're not in trouble, colin.

David Lopez: 39:28

Nobody gives money away by accident. Dude, what is God doing in your space that caused you to give five bucks? Yeah, or whatever you gave, right? So notice, the amount gets moved to the shelf and now it becomes less about the transaction, but transformational God is doing something in you. It's like no one's ever asked me. That's great deer in the headlights. I don't know what he's doing. Well, why'd you give? Maybe he is doing something.

David Lopez: 39:55

Holy cow, a Spark of change and curiosity towards spiritual things are happening now again donor cultivation for young people. Man, everyone's emotional about everything. When you can reframe that emotion and give them a context for how to think about it. I think that's a big thing. And then the last thing. The last thing would be People. I think especially younger donors or or emerging donors from a younger generation. Like transparency in you or your involvement is essential. Here's what I mean. Do you give because you're an employee there or do you give because you want to give there? So oftentimes, non-profit leaders and pastors. There's the unspoken expectation that you give because you're part of the machine.

Collin: 40:44

And you're asking everyone else to do it, and so some of that may be true, right, and that's okay.

David Lopez: 40:48

However and I do this at my church about once a quarter I will Take off the jacket. Hey, hey, you know, cornerstone, I Give here. This is our offering moment. I give here. You might think that I give because I'm in the pastor here. That's not why I give. Listen, believe it or not, as a pastor, my gas is still expensive and my taxes also went up along with my property insurance. I'm just like you. People forget that right. So now I'm human. They can connect with me and I can connect with them. They can identify with me. And Yet I still choose to give in this place, because here's what the Lord calls me to, but here's also how the Lord has been faithful in my life. And so I just demonstrate that authenticity. Not because I'm a pastor, but because I'm a regular guy, I get to give here, not I have to give here, yeah. And then people identify with authenticity. In fact, they can smell it when it's inauthentic and they're like, yeah, I don't want to go to especially. Gen Z, oh totally especially Gen Z.

Collin: 41:52

They'll see it Four miles away and they'll be out of there.

Heredes: 41:56

Yeah, it's a classic. You know mom and dad trying to promote kids ministry on stage and their kids you know their own kids don't go. They hate it, right. So what's the problem? Let's not talk about it, let's fix the problem. See why your kids don't attend it first and then. But um day before, this was good stuff, gold Before we go yeah, one more hot take, because we're talking about this earlier go, go for nonprofits and churches. Their tax exemption, yeah, and where it's at now, some of kind of the, the hot air that's going around it in the tensions. And this is not official financial advice Attorney. Disclaimer, terms and conditions yeah, but where do you see go? What do you see the state of it now? Where is it going? What are the dangers and how should organizations be preparing?

David Lopez: 42:38

Yeah, so I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not giving legal advice, nor am I a CFM, so I'm not giving financial advice. Boom, here's what we know, right? We don't have to guess that, biblically speaking, it gets harder for the church now. In some parts of the world it's really difficult now, and as as bad as we think we have it in the US, it's not like it's not. Culturally speaking, it's not anywhere near what our brothers and sisters are enduring, like in East Asia or in parts of North Africa, south Africa, the Middle East, etc. That being said, what we can see is like look at the past as a predictor of the future. Our thing is getting better for the church institutionally, and that's a. That's an important distinction, because the gospel is growing better. And what we find historically is that in places where a persecution breaks out, the gospel tends to break out too. All right, but institutionally, is it getting better for the church? And the answer is no.

David Lopez: 43:35

You can see where different conversations at a national level will have implications, and so you asked about tax exemption and stuff. My sense is at some point and we can see this from what's happened in Australia, what's happened in Canada and what's happened in Western Europe. At some point the church either becomes a state church and people's taxes fund it and it does what it does, or you lose your exemption altogether and you figure it out. Our friends in Australia are a good case study for that. There the churches have no tax exemption status there, so you know you have to pay for your property tax on all things. What I would probably encourage people to look at is 2050.

Heredes: 44:22

You've got time, but not a lot of time 27 years to be exact, so you know, called Dave.

David Lopez: 44:27

Yeah, right, maybe even before that, depending on how Politics move and elections go and stuff like that. Again, regardless of who you vote for, what we're finding is things are not becoming favorable for the people of faith, and that's not unique just to the Christians, right? This is gonna have implications on the Muslims, who are tax exempt. That'll have implications on the Catholics, on the Buddhists, the Unitarians, who are all tax exempt. I think at some point, the religious circle of people of faith either gets absorbed into a tax line item or it's like suck it up. And this is you. Yeah, you were here to do charitable things. Then do it regardless.

David Lopez: 45:05

What I would start encouraging people to think through is if you do have property and you do have to end up paying like property tax, I don't know how many churches would close today if they had to pay for property tax plus everything they're doing. So re-imagine again. This goes back to where we started the selling of property. How can we re double utilize our existing space Monday through Saturday for something else? That's gonna be for the greater good of our communities, but also generate potential income streams, and I know like if we do that today, we will end up paying taxes on that, fine, fine, but at least you're ahead of the curve. And then, if you have surplus space or surplus land, re-imagine it. Bring in other counsel, other people to help you Think through what could be.

David Lopez: 45:52

Listen, if the day never comes, then this, this, then don't sweat it right. The worst that happens you have a lot of surplus cash. That's the worst that happens. But if it does come, here's my fear. I Don't know how many churches and houses of faith will close because they lost their properties, not being able to sustain it. Start building into some of those things. Start thinking through like what it would it look like to set an apportion Of something annually for that day, just in case. Again, I think by 2050. I would not be shocked if this happens in our lifetime. It happened in Australia in our lifetime and what I'm seeing is the winds of change are blowing and politically it's not in the favor of God's people in either space, nonprofit or church. So just my opinion. One more time. I got a reiterate that just an opinion.

Heredes: 46:41

We're gonna ping this episode, put a mark on it and we're gonna put Dave's email at the bottom. We can email him in 2050 and. What a prophet, or what a punk 27 years.

David Lopez: 46:53

You can either thank me or throw a rock at me. One of those two.

Heredes: 46:56

Yeah, well, dave, listen. Thank you so much, man. Great insight and know it's helpful to our listeners before we go. Where can they find you? How can they reach you? What are the best places?

David Lopez: 47:04

Yeah, I think email David dot Lopez at generous comm is the easiest place to reach me. Yeah, I think that would be it, man.

Heredes: 47:12

Yeah, for those listening, be sure to reach out with your needs. We're gonna put all the links to Dave's contacts and websites and organizations he is currently serving through. And thank you for being a mentor from up close from afar, I mean for many years now, and I think there's so many stories that we'll probably have to do a special episode on all the dirt that I've got on Dave.

David Lopez: 47:32

You know saying that's fine, not the other way around.

Collin: 47:34

Not the other one seems like he'll hit back though. Yeah, I no doubt. I think you better be ready.

David Lopez: 47:38

If you do, I think I throw rocks to but we value your time.

Heredes: 47:41

Listeners, thank you so much and remember don't go alone. If you want to go far, do not want to go alone, let's go together. We're here to help you grow faster and go further. Thank you for listening to the non-profit Renaissance and we'll see you next time.

Outro: 47:55

Thanks again for listening to the nonprofit Renaissance. We hope it ignites a Renaissance in you and helps you go further and grow faster. Be sure to share, rate and subscribe and if you'd like to recommend or be a guest on our show, send us an email. At podcast at first, creative comm.