#18 - Champion Forward: How World Series MVP Ben Zobrist is Helping Young Athletes Thrive On and Off the Field

Ever wondered how a World Series MVP pivots from the diamond to the pivotal role of nurturing young minds? Ben Zobrist, along with John Harrison, join us to unravel the inspiring journey behind Champion Forward, where the focus is on helping young athletes and their families, teams, and coaches succeed in sports while staying mentally and emotionally healthy. We don't just stop at discussing Champion Forward's mission; we dissect the nuances of leadership and teamwork in nonprofits.

This episode peels back the curtain on the emotional complexities in the world of youth sports and development. With candid conversations around the harmful cycle of achievement-based validation and the necessity for a supportive, emotionally intelligent environment, we offer a narrative that champions authenticity over accolades. As we navigate the delicate interplay between parental pressures and the development of intrinsic motivation, our guests share their personal experiences, shining a light on the essence of true identity and success that reaches far beyond the scoreboard.

For those steering a nonprofit or influencing young lives, this episode is a treasure trove of wisdom. John Harrison imparts crucial advice on balancing the demands of leadership with self-care, while we discuss the power of versatility, not just in sports, but in all of life's arenas. Jump in with us as we explore the impact Champion Forward aims to make as they guide children and organizations alike towards a future where joy and authenticity trump the relentless pursuit of external validation.

Show Notes

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Transcript

Heredes: 0:10

Ladies and gentlemen, we're back with another nonprofit, renaissance, helping you guys go further, grow faster in your nonprofits and your organizations, whether it's ministry, business, mission-minded organizations that we've partnered with. So, for those of you listening, thanks for the comments, thanks for all the replies and the quotes that we're getting. It means a lot that someone's listening. Some of you guys are three in the morning listening to our whispers and it makes us feel good because it's like, okay, somebody's out there. But we're glad to be of help and I'm excited to continue. And today, nonetheless, we got some special guests and really, really looking to have some fun today and learn some things, some connections that we're going to jump into really soon. But, colin, tell us what we have today here.

Collin: 0:54

I'm not sure if it runs out. We've got two guests, two guests joining us. Our first guest was a pro baseball player. He's a three-time World Series participant, he's a two-time World Series champion, he's a one-time World Series MVP and he is now the founder of the nonprofit Champion Forward. We've got retired baseball player Ben Zobris with us. Ben, how you doing, man?

Ben Zobrist: 1:23

Doing well. Doing well, guys. Thank you. It's a snowy day in Tennessee today, so we've all been hunkering down the last couple of days, but that's been well.

Collin: 1:33

Yeah, it's 70 here, so we are not hunkering down, we're looking for opportunities to get outside. I'm super excited to have this conversation with you, but we also guess what. We've got another MVP in the building today. Another MVP, what in the world? Yes, another MVP. Our second guest is he is the most vice president out of anybody in the org Champion Forward. He is the MVP. There's no one in the org that is more vice president than my man, and so you know, if you know anything about successful organizations, right behind the leader, the innovator, the vision caster, there's someone who is doing a lot of work to help push the org forward, get things done, and so that is John Harrison, vice president of Champion Forward. Welcome, john, how you doing, man?

John Harrison: 2:20

I'm great. Thanks, Colin. Thanks H, Thanks for having us.

Heredes: 2:23

John, are you the guy who loves it? You?

Ben Zobrist: 2:25

called him the MVP. He loves it right now.

John Harrison: 2:30

Yeah, because, yeah, trying to be humble, but yeah, I was part of the agreement, though.

Heredes: 2:34

On the email he said hey, make sure you call me the MVP.

John Harrison: 2:38

It's on the content.

Ben Zobrist: 2:41

It's all making sense now. This is this. All that this is the end.

John Harrison: 2:45

Hey, I'm working on asking for what I need, that's good, hey good.

Ben Zobrist: 2:48

How do you feel about this, John? You feel great. Now you feel good Ready.

John Harrison: 2:52

I feel affirmed. I feel affirmed, that's what we're going for.

John Harrison: 2:56

So we'll build off that. But, yeah, I'm in the snow here. I spent 10 years in Minnesota and so the snow kind of became second nature for me, and so we don't get much of it here in Tennessee. And they were predicting snow, predicting snow, and sometimes that happens and it's just a little dusting, but this time the weather folks, they earn their money. We've gotten I think we got seven inches over the last 24 hours and so, yeah, they have a really intentional strategy here, especially where we live, where it's called weight, and so you just wait until the snow melts. So the snow in our driveways and in our streets is just there, and it looks like it'll be here at least for the next week or two.

Collin: 3:35

Does the city or state just kind of shut down when it snows? I spent a year and a half in Seattle and it rarely snows there, so when it did snow a few times, everything was just like the world's over, until this thought it's basically the same thing.

Ben Zobrist: 3:49

Oh yeah, similar. Everything completely shuts down.

John Harrison: 3:52

I mean, my kids are like so happy because there's no school today and maybe there will not be there, probably won't be school, maybe even the rest of the week, like no joke, like there was a snowstorm two years ago and they were out for seven consecutive school days, five full days and then to the following week. It's unbelievable.

Collin: 4:10

Wow, that's what we get Hurricanes right.

Heredes: 4:14

Hurricanes seasons for us is that it's like our snow days, Like yeah, it's coming, so we'll prepare and but but yeah, we, we get, go ahead Fallon.

Collin: 4:22

Well, I was going to get us in, I was going to get us started. I want to. I want to hear about champion Ford, want to hear about more about you guys. So why don't we? Can we get to get a little bit of a history and background? Who is champion Ford? How did you guys, how did Ben and John meet up and kind of start this? Give us a little background there.

John Harrison: 4:39

Yeah, yeah. Well, I usually bat lead off.

Ben Zobrist: 4:41

So I'll go first, yeah.

John Harrison: 4:43

Yeah, you're always bad at second or below. They never trusted you in the first spot. I moved to Franklin, tennessee three years ago, literally just felt led by the spirit to move here. That's a whole nother podcast series in itself but met my wife, whitney, and I moved from Minneapolis. I'm from Kansas City originally, and so that's where I first heard of the name Ben Zobrist as a Kansas City Royals fan in the 2015 World Series. He was signed at the trade deadline in July and then came along.

John Harrison: 5:13

It was just an integral part of that team. I'd been to game seven of 2014 when we lost, and so that was heartbreaking. So then to have Ben come and be a part of the team, that was awesome. And then, through actually a men's group and a Bible study, I'd gotten connected with Ben and at a men's night one night I'd been here like a week or two. I went up to him and I was like total fan girl like Ben, yeah, like World Series dude, you did it.

John Harrison: 5:35

It was awesome, and we ended up talking for like 30 minutes and then we ended up having breakfast, probably a week or two later, and we had breakfast for about three hours and just got to know each other at a deeper level, got to share some stories and some journeys, some hard things we'd been through. There was a lot of themes that were similar in our stories and so, before taking it too far, we launched Champion Forward about a year and a half after that, after we kind of journeyed together as friends. But taking it back, my experience, I was an athlete myself. Between Ben and I we have three World Series appearances, two World Series titles and one World Series MVP.

John Harrison: 6:16

So, I played baseball up until eighth grade, but I played golf in high school and college and so golf.

Collin: 6:22

Let me just say, you had me panicking there for a second because I was like did this guy play baseball? I did till eighth grade.

John Harrison: 6:29

Well, I mean like Major.

Collin: 6:30

League and I was like, oh my God, I'm the worst host in the world.

John Harrison: 6:33

Oh that was good. No, no, no, no. So then so I've had different roles professionally. Just kind of background have been sales operations, marketing. I kind of like doing it all and then also just finish my master's in organizational leadership. So I love studying organizations, how to build teams, build cultures and innovate and consult and coach, and so those are all kind of the things that I really enjoy doing. And then I connected with Ben and we launched Champion Forward. He kind of had a vision and I said he said hey, could you help me carry out this vision? And so the rest is history. We can talk a lot more about that, but that's a little background about me.

Ben Zobrist: 7:08

Well, thanks, I love it. I appreciate you sharing all of that I actually I forgot something.

John Harrison: 7:16

Tell me jump in what. No, totally kidding. Go ahead, ben.

Ben Zobrist: 7:25

I think the idea for Champion Forward was really born out of both of our pain through the performance pressure process Through mine and baseball John's in golf early on in his life as he played in college but then couldn't play beyond that, even though he had dreams of playing professionally. One of the things we connected on as friends, as he remarked about, was that we both had this part of our journey and, yeah, while I went on and played for a number of years in the major leagues, one of the things that we talked about was anxiety, depression, some of the coping mechanisms that we had had while we were trying to live out our dream. And we you know he had heard that this is something that I want to figure out how to help young families, young athletes, young coaches. I want to figure out how to do that, but I didn't really know how to do it. I was still kind of thinking through my post-playing career and trying to find out what's the thing that I need to do and, as I did, a lot of identity work and figuring out. Here's what I'm really passionate about and started talking to John about this.

Ben Zobrist: 8:41

John at the time was transitioning into different jobs, like he was leaving one job that he had in the business ministry job and then he went to another business where they were doing. You know, he's an incredible business guy Like. He knows a lot about different parts of business, great entrepreneur himself has done some podcasting before this time. And I'm looking at all his gifts as a friend and looking at what we need to do, or what I need to do to get this thing going and I'm like, dude, can you help me do this? And, as I, you know, talk to him about that. And he starts like, well, let's just talk. And we didn't want to dive in too quick. And so we worked for what we started, for what? Three months. We decided let's talk about this for a couple months, you know, and for consulting kind of thing. And then after those few months we were like, you know what? This is going really good, let's see what we can build together. And so we really for the next year after that, really built what's known as champion forward now and launched in September. So that's how we got to where we are and on the regular we're obviously podcasting together, but we have an incredible support team that John has helped put together here and got a great advisory board of people that are in sports, people that are coaching, even practitioners, some therapists and people that are that are kind of advising us on the side of the performance pressure.

Ben Zobrist: 10:05

Because what we're noticing, like we want to help young athletes, parents and coaches this is our mission statement is help them thrive on and off the field. And if we can, if we can do that, we're not just doing that for the athletes, because we know that the athlete needs that support system. They need the caretakers that are around them to be doing their work and they need the coaches to be doing their work to provide that environment for them to thrive. We know that that's a mental skills. There's mental skills behind that, there's emotional skills behind that.

Ben Zobrist: 10:32

Everybody's dealing with the challenging sports experience out there and so we're like, what do we do to address this challenge? Because now we got money added in at the amateur level I mean NIL and the travel sports circuit has gotten really crazy over the last 20 years since we've done it and you know those of us that have been through it from the youth all the way through the professional ranks. I feel called to do that, I feel called to speak to that. So we're trying to inspire and challenge these people that are in that world, but we're also trying to educate them on some of the things that we know about now. So, john, how was that? Did I? Did I sum it up a little bit more?

John Harrison: 11:38

You don't need my affirmation.

Heredes: 11:42

Let me jump in a little bit because there's a lot I can relate. I've seen some of your talks, ben. Listen to your podcast, some of your interviews. I'm a Patrick's kid myself, grow up in a large home. You're a one of five kids, right? I've got five boys myself, yeah, right, so it's a full-time gig and I love Champion 4. I mean, you guys, I love number one. It's the ABCs right Of Emotional Health, right With awareness, balance, connection, and I love you know also I'm going to kind of vomit here and dump on this, because the topics I want to hit on Love the interview you talking to your dad and the importance of family, the importance of kind of that upbringing and a father figure in a home.

Heredes: 12:21

Could you speak to a little bit of that and how it all comes together? One, if you're talking to me, I'm a dad of five young boys. I've got five young boys. I never figured out the girl situation, but so five boys have a dad who's been a mentor and a father figure for me. It meant a lot.

Heredes: 12:37

How does it all play?

Heredes: 12:38

Because I think you know, even hearing you talk one of the you know, by the way, for our listeners, whether you're doing your fundraising event, your church, your nonprofit, your org, bring Ben out to come, come speak and come talk to you.

Heredes: 12:49

We're going to link all the information below. Yeah, but just talk to us a little bit about how it all comes together, because you came out of a big platform and I think even one of your talks I heard you say how it's uncomfortable. Right, you come and Colin just introduce you with this list of like, accolades, boom and this and that, and how it's that platform and that performance vibe of like you have to kind of turn off. And you've been working through it, you're getting better, you're mastering, you're trying to teach it. Tell us a little bit about that how to not perform and how does it play into kids and to the emotional health of kids who are performing? And again, we can go into emotional coaching and skill coaching and all beyond. But I know I gave you a bunch, but I know that's the heart behind Champion Four and getting that message out and helping kids, coaches, parents, families and beyond.

Ben Zobrist: 13:36

So we just speak to that Well yeah, all of us, we all learn early on from our parental figures, our caretakers, of what works, what doesn't work, what are the lanes we need to stay in right and I think as parents we do our best to guide and encourage and try not to criticize much. But generally, as kids, when you're hearing affirmation and praise around achievement, it's natural to believe that my value lies in how much I achieve. That achievement doesn't just begin or end at the athletic field. I mean that's in the classroom, that's at home, that can be in church. You mentioned faith. That can be a faith journey too, and that's part of my journey.

Ben Zobrist: 14:21

Is even seeing paternal figures or seeing a God figure as needing me to perform in order to get his approval is not the Christian message at all. Right and so that's never what my parents would have said, that's never what they promoted, but sometimes that's the message you hear as a kid growing up, when you're trying to perform and achieve and try to be good enough for the people in your life, right and so. On the athletic field, we know that that's a real challenge, a big challenge, because you're looking up at statistics and every day it's a win, loss. That's the problem with zero some games. So if our kids are playing zero some games all the time, whether it's on a computer or whether it's on an athletic field, and they see either one or I lost, well, they're going to walk away, believing that the value of who they are as a player is relies. It lies in whether we won or lost, whether I got the hit or I didn't, whether I scored the point or I didn't, and oftentimes failure is a challenging thing to deal with for kids.

Ben Zobrist: 15:24

Right, they need the guides, they need the parental figures, the caretakers, to do a couple different things. We both need paternal and maternal caretakers in our lives, whether they are our mother or father or not. That's what we need. We need both of those, and so it does take more than just those caretakers. You need those figures in their life, but they need also other adults and other kids that are along the same journey. So we need a combination of feeling and, john, we've just learned some of this recently but feeling like.

Ben Zobrist: 15:58

Kids need to feel like they matter, regardless of whether they're winning or losing. Kids need to feel a sense of maternal affection and sometimes, as a father if you're a single dad, that's hard to provide is like how do I give the level of affection to my children that they need? Well, they need male and female figures in their lives to give them those types of things right. So we can only do so much as a parent, but what we're learning is as a parent or as a coach, there are a lot of things that we do that don't help, and then there are certain things that we can do that help a lot more. So I think, as far as being that caretaker figure, whether it's a parent, whether you're a father or whether you're a mother, or whether you're just an uncle or a grandparent or a neighbor, whoever it is that's providing that level of parental advisement.

Ben Zobrist: 16:57

I think there are things that we don't know emotionally, that we need to know, and there are things that John and I we're learning on a daily, like listening to the people that are researching these things on a regular basis, so we can dig into that a little bit.

Ben Zobrist: 17:12

But that's essentially what we've been studying for the last year and what we're trying to lay out for our people group, our people group. I see my people group as the sports people. Like if you're involved in sports, like I know what it's like to be a competitor. I know what it's like to be clutch in those big moments, and you want the mental skills and the emotional balance and everything that goes into being able to be clutch and focus in that moment. At the same time are you transitioning well to being a human being after you've been the hero, and so that's what's good, that's what the caretakers and the coaches have to teach these young people how to do. And if we don't know how to do that, then we're just. We're just kind of leaving them to their own devices. They're gonna, they're gonna think I'm a hero when I'm doing amazing, and then when I'm not doing amazing, what value do I have?

Collin: 17:59

Wow, john, talk to us a little bit about that on on your end, as I you know, someone might say like well, yeah, I understand the pressure of, maybe, professional sports and kind of what that might do, but as someone who, who, who probably it sounds like experience that same pressure before that, I mean, I mean, what's, what's the value of this type of thing that you guys are trying to do for, even for young kids who are just starting out in sports?

John Harrison: 18:23

Talk a little bit about that, yeah, I think let's normalize the human experience. And when I get the chance to to speak with Ben, I say hey, you know, let's think about that moment that we all think about Ben. For 108 years, no World Series, champ championships, 10 thinning steps in the batter's box, 50,000 people watching in the stands, countless millions around the globe watching. Okay, what's he feeling in that moment? Right, he's. He's feeling maybe fear, he's feeling maybe a little bit anxious, he's feeling angry, like excited, he's. He's feeling all those things. Right.

John Harrison: 19:01

What I believe to in my core, what I believe is that somebody actually is feeling the same things as Ben in a little league game, definitely. And I believe that we have created these different platforms and these different levels and these different experiences when, in fact, the human experience is, we all share the same feelings. It might just have bigger or smaller impact on different people. And so Ben felt the pressure to perform and throughout his 14 year MLB career that manifested itself in different ways. I felt the pressure to perform throughout my middle school, throughout high school. And when I say the pressure to perform, I'm not just talking about to perform on my golf team or on my sports team, but to perform for my family to perform in school right, and so there's all these expectations. Where I have to be, I have to be great, I have to be great. And when you're constantly trying to live in this performance based acceptance environment, it wears you down to the point where you start seeking out coping mechanisms.

John Harrison: 20:07

And I believe that we have a culture that lives in two things You're either in addiction or you're in recovery, and I mean that respectfully, but I mean that we have so many addictions and you obviously have the addictions we talk about heavily, whether it's substances, pornography, etc. Like we talk about those addictions, but I believe there's addictions to social media. I believe there's addictions to food, I believe there's addictions to retail shopping and all these things are creating different dopamine hits for us, and when the brain is in pain and we don't know how to connect with what we're feeling, we seek out these dopamine sources. And so I think what's so valuable about Champion Forward is yeah, we're leading with, hey, we want to teach you to perform under pressure, but in reality, we want to teach you to regulate in a healthy way, because when you can regulate in a healthy way, you're learning to respond to the way that life throws different things at you instead of react and when you can respond.

John Harrison: 21:03

I'm going to quote our mutual friend, dr Rob Murray, that Ben and I work with a lot and value a lot. He talks a lot about. You know, we want you to be more calm, we want you to have more clarity, we want you to be more connected, we want you to be more compassionate, we want you to be more create, courageous, but we also want you to be creative and we also want you to be curious, and so the work that we teach people to do is hopefully leading them down this path where they can live with all of those things, where you're living a life where you're thriving. We're not relieving the pressure to perform because it's just going to ramp up.

John Harrison: 21:34

Right H was making me so dang nervous and twitching in my freaking slippers I'm wearing right now about five boys my wife seven months pregnant, no child yet, first baby and I'm reading a baby book last night, like how am I going to do this? And he's sitting here going, hey, I got five of them. And like I'm doing and right, the pressure to be a dad, to be a spouse, to be a friend, to be a leader of an organization, whatever it is, we all just it all ramps up, and so what we're trying to do is to equip not just the young athletes and competitors, but the people that are responsible for their caretaking them, and the coaches, how to how to handle what life is throwing at them so they can be the most effective in the different roles that they have.

Heredes: 22:15

Yeah, yeah, I love that, John. Let me go ahead, Ben.

Ben Zobrist: 22:19

Well, if I could just add, I just I love the fact that this is what we've built is not just for the athletes, you know, like obviously the athletes are paramount because they're the kids and they need. You know, the kids need to be the most supported, obviously, but adults need support as well, and so if we, if we are giving this and offering this to the young competitors the young, they're the ones out there on the field what, what's really going on is probably the greatest emotions that have no outlet at all are the parental emotions on the sidelines, Right, and so this is just as much for the parents as it is for the kids and everybody. We all know those stories about parents that are out of control and that they're screwing their kid up by being out of control at the field. Like that's, that's what we're addressing. I love that, that. That's part of this.

Collin: 23:06

We saw that. We saw that video of you on the sideline age. I said it to him beforehand, that's.

Heredes: 23:11

I told the publicist to take that down, sorry.

Collin: 23:12

We need to talk about it.

Heredes: 23:13

So no, I okay. So, ben, tell me about that, because it's that whole like I've been guilty and I've been better, right, but I've. I've got kids in soccer and football, I've got. I've got the performers in in arts. I've got a pianist and a violin player in my family, I got. And they're performing in the same way, right, cause that, and it's like, well, you'll get an ice cream if you score, okay. So how crazy is that? That was not me, that was Collins.

Heredes: 23:37

But we live in that world of rewarding a performance like that or that, where it can be so traumatizing and damaging to a kid's soul. Really, right, if we're not careful. Yet every dad has that. I wanna see my kid win, I do want, do I wanna see my kid beat up the bully or be the bully? Tell me about that In your experience, what you've seen in pro, but also for kids, cause it's real for me now. And I'll say this last thing cause Collins, a pastor's kid, I'm a pastor's kid. Ben John, are you a pastor's kid? No, cause this will okay, this would have been a pastor's kid podcast.

Collin: 24:08

I'm technically not a pastor's kid but church kid through and through.

Heredes: 24:11

Okay, okay, there we go. So there's been well. There's a performance element even to that. A lot of our leaders are even churches. There's thousands of pastors listening to this. You have to perform if you're the pastor's kid, which is the worst Now my dad has been ministry for 30 plus years. He's led so well in saying you know you be you and you're gonna bring all your crap with it and God's grace is the same for you as it is for. But there's this performance element and how he's handled my mom, his wife of like do you don't have to be this Now? It's a challenge. It is a challenge cause. We're flesh and bones. And tell me about that, ben. How do you? What are some tips to even handling all that? How did you do as a pastor's kid? Were you like the golden? Are you the golden child? Pastor's kid.

Ben Zobrist: 24:50

Well, golden child, I don't know about that, but like as far as all I mean, we had five in our family and you know, I want to be careful here to say that we're not trying to lower standards, right, because the standards of excellence and standards to try to behave in a certain way or be a good example to those around you, be the leader of around you, is really important. I want my kids to be leaders. At the same time, I want that leadership to be to come from within. If that's coming from external sources, if I'm the one putting pressure on them externally to do it, guess what happens as soon as that external pressure goes away. That's it, it's gone.

Ben Zobrist: 25:39

It's gone Like the big problem. Whether you're in professional sports or whether you're trying to parent your kids, is extrinsic. Motivation only lasts so long. It only lasts so long. As soon as you get the thing, there's always a lull. As soon as you get the reward, there's always a lull. And then you got to figure out well, what's the next carrot? Well, I lived that way for a long time without realizing I was living that way Because you get drafted. Or you're playing college ball and it's like, well, what if I could get drafted, right? So you go get that carrot. I got drafted. Now I can say I was a professional. Well then, you're a professional and you're going. Well, what's next? Well, if I could just make it to the next level single-a, double-a, triple-a. There's always a carrot Major leagues.

Ben Zobrist: 26:26

You're a Major League baseball player. Now, ben, wow, that's amazing. Now you're getting paid a lot of money. There's so much that comes along with that. People are carrying your bags everywhere. Well, what's next? Well, let's get the Major League deal, the long-term deal, set your family up for life. That's what it's all about. That's what people at that level will tell you. It's all about making the money for your family so that they can be set up for the rest of their lives. And then you go get that and then what you realize? What next? That's not enough. Well, what if I could be an All-Star? What if I could make it to a World Series? I made it to a World Series early on in my career. We lost, but I made it became an All-Star. Is that Tampa?

Collin: 27:07

Go raise, baby go raise.

Ben Zobrist: 27:08

That's right. You know, become an All-Star. I'm like, wow, what else is there? Free agency? Get to free agency, get that big deal. Now we've got to win the World Series.

Ben Zobrist: 27:17

Well, I won the World Series with Kansas City. It was amazing, so amazing. Well, what do you do next? Well, the Cubs haven't won in 108 years. Sign up with the Cubs, you know you get that opportunity. So I went and did that. We did it in the first year. The Carrots just kept coming and I kept going, you know, being a part of the teams that were achieving them right. And then, on top of that, I never expected to be a World Series MVP. And then I was a World Series MVP.

Ben Zobrist: 27:45

So, once all that extrinsic motivation is done, what are you left with If you haven't learned how to know who you are when you take the uniform off, and you haven't learned who you are when you're not achieving anything and you're not intrinsically motivated at that level? You'll have just what I had You'll feel anxious, you'll feel depressed, you will not feel at peace. And I had Jesus in my life, but I still hadn't learned that. I wasn't tapping into that unconditional love. I wasn't tapping into that intrinsic side of like, wow, I know who I am when all of the achievement goes away, because there was always a carrot there. And that's what I wanna warn parents that are trying to help their kids achieve great things Help them achieve great things, but while you're doing that, if you're not focused more on their intrinsic motivation and help them learning who they are when they're not achieving anything, then you're missing the boat. That's what we've got to be doing as parents.

Collin: 28:49

What an incredible message. I mean, if there are more kids, I think that we're able to frame it as the greatest thing I can do is be the most joyful and authentic version of myself. It doesn't matter what is beyond that man. If you can hit that, anything after that is extra. But like that's the point, that's so good. You guys are doing such incredible work. I wanna hear, I wanna talk a little bit about the faith as well as the faith side of things. But let's talk about the impact and let's talk about the success stories. What have you guys seen so far as you guys have been doing this and you're going out? First of all, give it maybe a little bit of a glimpse of, like, what does it look like for a champion forward to do what you guys do? I know there's speaking events, there's things like that. Like, what does that look like and what have you guys seen come out of that? What are some success stories?

John Harrison: 29:40

Well, we've had two awesome in-person workshops Kind of last year we were in Chicago and then we were also here in Franklin, and at these workshops we were just kind of sharing some of our strategies. So a lot of that year that Ben and I spent together is trying to come up with the content and the framework and the pillars through the work that each of us have done. And so we talked about awareness, which is gonna be a mouthful here, but it's having a conscious knowledge of your thoughts, feelings, patterns, surroundings, abilities and challenges. We talk about balance, which is having a healthy division of time, energy and attention giving to the different responsibilities that you have. And then we talk about connection, which is having meaningful interaction that includes authentic communication and feedback. And then we also talk about this idea of emotional versatility, which is the ability to identify your feelings, clarify and understand what they're telling you and engage with that information effectively. And so we talk about these concepts and the product or the result of intentionally pursuing these are three things. We talk about motivation, which we all wanna be motivated. We all wanna have energy and enthusiasm. We talk about vitality, which is what separates something from being dead versus being alive, and having that energy. You wanna have that if you wanna be in life. We all wanna have vitality and we all wanna have presence. We wanna be present for the people that matter most to us, and so we've been sharing some of these concepts at these different workshops. We've been also talking about how you can do that and then also taking people through experiences where they'll actually feel what that is like. That's some of the successes that we've had, and then, in addition, just recently, we've had multiple speaking engagements. We're starting to do a lot of webinar speaking engagements. So we're partnering with high schools, colleges, different travel sports organizations to bring webinars to kind of their constituents and provide them resources, strategies, tactics. We just did some in-person events at some high schools and partnered with a youth baseball organization and did an event for almost 400 people, which was awesome to have them there.

John Harrison: 31:40

And where we're evolving to is how do we actually take what we're doing and train and equip other people that are inside of those organizations to be carrying out what we do? Because we all know that long-term sustainable change happens over time. It happens kind of hand-to-hand. You need somebody on the front lines, and so Ben and I are really just trying to be out educating and inspiring and then hopefully the next year we'll be spent equipping, while we're educating and inspiring, equipping those people inside of organizations, inside of sports teams, to be kind of the ambassador, if you will, carrying forward what we're doing From a success story standpoint.

John Harrison: 32:20

I think I always like to think of this of we're just planting seeds and, coming from a ministry background myself, I'm trying really hard to be focused on the seed planning and not trying to take a look at the harvest. And so right now, ben says at Beth's, he says we're teaching a soft skill and so we don't want to judge our successes by having some instant, crazy, transformational story. I really personally want to judge our success by are we planting seeds, are we being faithful to what we're called to, and are we trying to help cultivate and water those seeds the best that we can and over time, hopefully that will produce impact that we never get to see, lest we would become arrogant. So we're just trying to be faithful in the process. But, man, it's been so like life giving to be in front of organizations, speaking with people and seeing the lights turn on and, you know, click, and then having some people come up to us and say, wow, this was really impactful. Makes all the hard work worth it.

Heredes: 33:15

Yeah, john, let me follow up on this For our leaders. You know, some of the listeners are just getting started or about to start. They're entering, maybe a nonprofit or, you know, charity. That are a foundation of sorts. You guys are leveraging your experience, success, the lessons, your entrepreneurial side, the you know, the influence that God's given you and then you've achieved. Give us some tips or tricks. What are some of the lessons, some of the things you've learned in kind of getting started, getting going kind of an initial year, initial stages? What would you tell?

John Harrison: 33:45

someone. Yeah, I got connected, I think actually through Ben, through a guy named Matt George and he is very focused in the nonprofit sector. He's been extremely successful just leading nonprofits and in his book he talks about this question that I've applied to our situation. That I would encourage any nonprofit kind of visioneer or leader to ask is what happens if our nonprofit doesn't exist? What happens if our nonprofit or our organization doesn't exist? Like what's the impact?

Heredes: 34:15

If it stops operating tomorrow, right With the world.

John Harrison: 34:19

Notice With the world, even Well to the point almost of like, like asking yourself it helps you get really clear H on what problem are you solving? And I think that when we really distilled that down that helped kind of propel us forward is when we found out, okay, what happens if champion forward doesn't exist, and that's a. You might need an hour or two to fight through and keep asking, but that would be kind of one piece of advice. Lesson learned Number two I would say this is just me speaking to myself right now don't be afraid of adjustments. One thing that made Ben great in his career is the ability to make adjustments, whether it was to pitchers or in positions in the field. And I think for me, sometimes I want things so black and white, but kind of be be, be adjustable, be flexible, be like bamboo, you know Ben, but don't break.

John Harrison: 35:08

And then also, I think, a huge piece of advice that I've learned we got this from a guy who's been such a great guide to us, a guy named Bart Garvin, incredibly successful businessman, but a man of God and faithful to our mission. It's been awesome to have him a part of the team. He says stay close to your customer. And you know, we live in a world where we have access to so many platforms Like we can, like the four of us right now could build If we spent the next eight hours. We could build stuff that used to take people years to build. But be really careful in just building, to build Like I'm trying really hard to stay close to my customer to say what do you need? What do you need and Ben does a really good job of that how can we support you? Because so often we're just thinking that we know what someone needs or wants and then we go spend all of our time and energy building that when in reality that isn't the support that they're actually needing.

Ben Zobrist: 35:59

Yeah, that's so good, that's good stuff. Yeah, to that end, from a founder's perspective, I would just say, for people that are, that are the initial driver of the nonprofit or the visionary, I think one of the things that I am realizing now, looking back, but didn't really fully realize at the time because it just worked out the right people, not just knowing your constituency of who you're trying to serve and what the problem is, but who are the people that you're partnering with and doing that and what are their giftings Right? So one of the things early on John and I talked about is like, at the end of the day, if we build nothing, I want to serve you as a friend. I want to figure out what. What, john, are you really gifted at? And let's put you try to get you in that lane. And, ben, what are you really gifted at? And we knew early on like John is really gifted at taking a vision and like making it go. Ben is not great at making it go. Ben is great at throwing the vision and and and adjusting it to what the needs are. You know, and and we worked on that together.

Ben Zobrist: 37:09

But then there came a time where John's like when we add people to the equation here in in partnering. We need to find people with these giftings because we don't have those. You know he working genius is something he worked. He worked with like that that book and like we really needed that, because that the third person that we added into champion forward after we had worked for months and months and months we needed a third person.

Ben Zobrist: 37:35

John's like this is what I know we need. Based on doing this, we've got to find a person like this and it was like amazing how God dropped Hannah Tanner into our life. Like Hannah has the perfect gifting of what we needed at the time. So she was the third hire to champion forward. We've gone on from there but like knowing what pieces you need in place to actually make the vision come to fruition. I didn't know that at the time but John, when I brought John in, john took my ideas, made it start going and then he's going. We need these people Right, and that was such a huge part of, you know, helping things start to move.

John Harrison: 38:14

Yeah, one thing I want to add to that real quick, because I don't want to miss this point, is using the. The working genius was incredibly valuable. It's still very valuable. You know, ben is a wonder and invention guy, if you're familiar at all, so he can come up with an idea and then dream about how something could be different and then come up with an idea.

Heredes: 38:32

He looks like a tenacity guy. That's at the very bottom.

John Harrison: 38:35

Zero tenacity, and so I'm a discernment and enablement and so I love coming alongside but also figuring out like Ben, let's distill that. Is that actually going to work? I don't know. And then, you know, hannah came in and she was tenacity and enablement Right. So then we've had another team member, omar, come on and I can't remember. He's galvanizing and so he's great at getting people together and so, as you kind of continue to grow, understand that, just as it talks about, we all have our unique skill sets as followers and we fit into the body of Christ. You know, in the same way you can fit into an organization, but but getting an awareness of what those are.

John Harrison: 39:09

But the second thing I really want to talk about, like logistically or tactically for nonprofits as they're launching, is don't be afraid to leverage contractor talent.

John Harrison: 39:20

Like I think we live in a world where you have access to so many different people that you don't have to hire a full time employee, and I think we're.

John Harrison: 39:28

So you need people before you need them, which is the tough part. Like I was looking back in April and I was like I know we're going to need more people, but everyone that we've brought on our team we've leveraged contractor talent before that, and so we've been doing that right now in multiple different segments and outsource to the experts, in whatever field, and I think there's just a. That's a new way I'm seeing is like a new way of looking at the business world and how you operate an organization is before. You'd be like, well, we need to hire someone. That means we need to pay $48,000 to $60,000 and we need to give them insurance and we need to bring it yes, maybe down the line, but like you could be working with four or five different contractors on an hourly basis or a deliverable basis, getting great things done without needing necessarily the capital upfront that you would need to bring someone on full time.

Heredes: 40:17

No, that's right. But even post, post 2020, we've seen that. You know we serve 100 plus organizations and the fractional piece whether it's fractional, cmo, fractional has been a huge, you know, key to the success of the organizations who sometimes can't, you know, are not in a position, or don't necessarily even need never, to bring on somebody full time and then and people get to use their gifts. You know specific, so we've seen that too. Love the working genius. We'll use it adverse at our agencies, all the clients that we recommended. So big shout out to figuring out your widget. And the cool thing about the working genius, right, is that the hierarchies, that you need them all. There's a genius in all of it, right from wonder to tenacity, because I'm with you man, I'm tenacity man. If I don't have, we have our hand in our organization. She runs our operation and her, she is tenacity to the tee and without her, you know, we had amazing. Nd is floating all over the world, but never I think we're both Iggy's.

Collin: 41:07

I think we're both Iggy's, you and I. So you know pretty much, pretty much, we annoy the crap out of Hannah.

Heredes: 41:13

Let me let's talk about you, talk about that ability, that ability pivoting. But I'm amazed. I grew up in Brazil, so not a huge baseball guy. The Japanese community brought baseball to Brazil and then it boom and it's growing. Everybody's a fan of the Yankees, not the Cubs down there. It's a thing Anyway. But so I did my. I was surprised. You've played every position, ben, except catcher. Is that right professionally? Yeah, in major league, that it, and that's not normal, right, that's not normal at all, is that?

Ben Zobrist: 41:41

fair to say or no. There's been a few guys in history that have done it in one game. A couple of guys have done it in one game, but you know, I, I, I really didn't do any like the pitcher thing didn't happen to the last inning in my career, so I pitched the last inning of your last game, of your last game. Correct, well, last game basically. I pitched in college so I knew how to pitch, but it had been 16 years since that had taken place.

Heredes: 42:08

So that was, and you struck out a Hall of Famer. Basically right.

Ben Zobrist: 42:11

I can't pronounce his name now.

Collin: 42:12

I mean, I'm not not trying to just go for it, just do it, I'm getting speed.

Ben Zobrist: 42:19

That's the reality of that. But but yes, I struck out Yadir Molina, and he will be a Hall of Famer within a couple years. Here he's. He's one of the best actors that we've had in our generation.

Heredes: 42:30

Sweet so yeah, I love that.

Ben Zobrist: 42:32

The rest versatility was was what made me a valuable player Like. Without that I would have been just an average major league player and I think what allowed me that. I had people Joe Madden, Andrew Friedman like the front office in Tampa Bay that saw like there's a different way to do this. Utility players don't need to be stuck, as you at utility if they can hit and they can switch it like they could be like in there every day at different places. So they they, they decided they're like let's see if we can create this super utility position that allows for that kind of versatility all over the field and what that does allows a lot of flexibility with the other personnel that you have on the, on the team and on the bench. So I became a valuable commodity to a lot of different teams during my career. Now there's a lot of guys doing that and versatility has become something that a lot of players try to do early on in their career, which I think is is benefiting a lot of teams and a lot of players At the same time.

Ben Zobrist: 43:32

It takes a special mindset to be able to do that.

Ben Zobrist: 43:35

You got to kind of put your pride away sometimes. So I guess what you need to do is make sure that when you're doing that, your own game is going to get really good things going and you're going to be willing to do that in your own games when you'd rather be playing one position, you have to be willing to be uncomfortable to do that. But that how that correlates to what we're doing now. I mean we're trying to build a level of we talk about emotional versatility with champion forward, because you can't just be emotionally intelligent in one aspect of your life, crush it at your job and push the ball forward and then come home and listen to your toddler's cry or your young kids cry and not try to push the ball forward. There You've got to just sit and listen.

Ben Zobrist: 44:16

We want to help people become more balanced in their lives and become more emotionally versatile in all these different areas. That really fits with the brand of the type of player I was. I want to not only do that myself in my life and I'm always working on that every day but I want to be able to help other people do that and have a better experience than I had playing. They may not make it to a World Series and be World Series MVP or whatever, but that doesn't mean your experience playing can't be better than it was yesterday, that's great, that's incredible.

Heredes: 44:54

Colin, I have a quick follow-up. Go for it, take it away. If I understand Ben correctly, you didn't sit out in middle school or elementary school that you're going to be MLB. I think you played college right. You were like, if I do college, I'm good. It was a tryout, it was an opportunity. It was kind of maybe unorthodox, the way of the dream, the kids' dream of becoming that World Series champ. Talk to me, if I'm coaching my kids, if you're talking to me as a dad now and I'm looking at my kids because their days, I'm like I'm all in, I'm going to put one of these guys. I see it, I see the spark. I'm going to go all in with this one. What would you recommend as a dad when it comes to setting them up for success and talking about identity, talking about versatility and everything you just shared?

Ben Zobrist: 45:38

If they love the game that they're playing sports. We're talking about sports. I would say, keep it in proper perspective. That's the sense of balance. That's part of what we teach is balance as a family, balance as an athlete, because that's going to help them not burn out as well too. With all the opportunities now that kids are afforded to play all year round, it's like, hey, you know what. Let's, as a family, balance this out a little bit more than maybe the travel circuit would allow us to. That's going to take some challenging decisions by parents.

Ben Zobrist: 46:09

But I think also, when you're talking about awareness for these kids and connection both of those I think the biggest thing I would tell parents to do is help your kid understand what they love and don't love about their sport, because the more they can start to understand here's what I really like about it, here's what I don't really like about it the more they can think about that they're actually doing identity work, because there's a reason why they love this aspect of it and don't like that aspect of it, and that's the kind of stuff that will translate to other things they do in their life and you'll start to help them feel known for who they are, and not just what they're doing on the field.

Ben Zobrist: 46:51

That's the most important thing and that's also the connection piece as a parent or as a coach that you have to work on. It's like I want them to know. I know you, I know what you like and don't like. Even if things go well or go bad, it doesn't matter. Like you know, I want to help you feel known and that you know. No matter whether you win or lose, you're mattering out there to me.

John Harrison: 47:13

Let me jump in on that. I got to add some context to that real quick.

John Harrison: 47:16

I have a follow up because the only 7% of athletes will play collegially. 7%, that's a small number. Seven out of the 100 kids that you see running around are going to play in college. It's an even smaller number that are going to play professionally. There's a myth that exists that sports specialization will somehow provide you a pathway that is going to be profitable for the rest of your life. That is false. There's no data to support that. In fact, range by David Epstein is a great book that you can check out where he's actually proven that generalists and not specialization is a better strategy if you want long term, sustainable success in professional sports or any high level performance process.

John Harrison: 48:05

We talked with other MLB athletes who have told me hey, when you get to the MLB, it's enough of a grind. When you're in college, it's enough of a grind. Take away the grind when they're in middle school and high school, because if they're going to make it and they have it in them they're going to work hard. Of course, give them opportunities. Ben's a great example. Yeah, he's an outlier, but I'm starting to hear there's more and more stories of guys playing multiple sports in high school, not until college, where they're specializing. They just tried to be the best they could be that day, and it just kept taking them on and on.

Heredes: 48:36

I love that, ben. The follow up was this Again, you're speaking to me in my season right now. Right, I've got from three to 12, I got them and they're in it. They're doing the sports, they're doing the stuff, pushing them. Sometimes there's the projecting parents who project everything I didn't do. Now you're going to do it for it. Right, there's the projecting, but pushing them. How much should somebody push If I know it's healthier, good for the social skills or for the physical, for the? Let's say they hate it. I'm dragging them out there. What's that balance? What's that balance of like? No, I'm going to drag it out there. You're going to hate it. You may thank me later or no, or let them find their you know their specialty somewhere else. What would you? What would you recommend? I know it's maybe subjective and personal, but what.

Ben Zobrist: 49:17

What I recommend for them to figure out what they like and don't like is trying a lot of different things early on. But you, when you commit to that season, you're going to play the whole season out, even if you hated it after the first practice. You're committed, you'd said that this is what you wanted to do, stick with it all the way through and we're going to get the full experience, even if you hate every second of it after the first practice. That's. That's.

Ben Zobrist: 49:41

What I think is hard is is kids, especially early on. They don't know if they like it or not. They think they want to try it. And so then they they say, yeah, I want to play. And then you sign them up and they're like I hate this, you know I don't want to do it. It's like, well, you know what they learn. They learn to think a little harder before they say this is what I'm going to do, you know, and and so that's good for them to start to have to have to consider there's some consequences. If I commit to something, whatever it is, there are consequences and I need to be responsible then to follow through with what I said I wanted to do.

Heredes: 50:17

Love it man, so you call it Colin. You're going to finish the pickleball season. Okay, you heard. You heard it from Ben, I don't know. Listen, I'm going to finish it.

Collin: 50:23

Okay, I made jokes about it, but I think pickle elbows are real thing and I think I got it because my arm has been hurting, Like I'm just, I went too hard, without any warm up or anything, but I did win that last game against you age, so I'm pretty happy about that. But no, that's great. And you know, as a, I spent seven years in youth ministry and one thing that I know for sure is that students, teenagers, kids, have no idea, Like you said, they have no idea what they want. They have. No, they might think they do, but like part of that is helping them learn how to go through the process of like actually figuring that out and trying different things. That's such a good point and that's such a. I mean, that's one of the most, I think, valuable things, like you're saying, you can do for your, for your kids.

Collin: 51:05

I think the other thing would be instilling strong faith, which it seems like all of our parents did. That. Where does faith come into this with you? Obviously there's a strong foundation and it's it's very, it's very foundational and background for you guys. But does, does your, does that faith come out publicly? Does that? Obviously it informs behind the scenes, but what does that look like for you guys? You know from like inner workings and then when you guys are out, places like. You know how does that come into play?

Ben Zobrist: 51:36

Yeah Well, I mean, faith is even even mental health practitioners now are recognizing faith as a very important part of mental health right. So so to say you can keep faith out of the equation is really. I mean, everybody needs to have some level of faith. Now the question, of course, for everybody, the individual side of it, is what is your faith in, or who is your faith in? And that's that's up to every individual to decide that for themselves. But, but there's no question that, like I can't, I can't get away from the fact that that's who I am. That's part of what I believe. It's going to be involved in every, every decision that I make, and and sometimes it's going to be uncomfortable because I'll believe different things than other people are going to believe. But at the end of the day, you have to be able to be comfortable in your own skin enough to own what you believe and why you believe it.

Ben Zobrist: 52:32

And kids are in process on a regular basis, but in so so, our parents oftentimes, as adults, were in process trying to figure out what do I really believe about this or that? And and I think it's healthy to say, hey, I don't know, but I think this is, this is what I think, I believe and and you you know we need to model that for our kids instead of pretending like we always have everything figured out. We need to model that. I don't know for sure, but this is what I believe and this is why I believe it. And then you also need to give them the freedom to decide what they believe and why they believe what they believe Right.

Ben Zobrist: 53:12

And that's so hard because co-dependence, as parents and kids would say well, I got to make sure that you don't make the wrong decision here. Well, sometimes their process of growth is going to involve making bad decisions before they make better ones, and we have to have the fortitude of our own faith to trust that. Hey, I want to guide you and help you, but at the same time, you need to make your own decision when it comes to this, this or that you know. And I'm not talking about healthy, protective things that parents need to be doing. I'm talking about as they get older, into the high school and college years. It's like that needs to be where we need to give them more freedom to make some of those tougher decisions.

John Harrison: 53:57

I'll add some context to that. I mean, I'm a Christian, ben is a Christian, and our organization itself is an organization that teaches competitors, caretakers and coaches to thrive in the midst of performance pressure. That's what we do. We serve a whole host of demographic of people. We serve people from different backgrounds, different experiences, different cultures, and that's our organizational goal. It might be different than our personal missions or our personal agendas Not even agenda, that's a horrible word but I would say our personal mission might be different than the organizational mission. We can't help but try to serve, because that's one thing we're called to and, like Ben said, it's going to come out in who we are and what we do.

John Harrison: 54:45

But in terms of an educational nonprofit versus a religious nonprofit, champion Forward is an educational nonprofit. We strive to help as many people as we can. We also see our organization as a place where someone can come and maybe churn up some things in their life that they've maybe been afraid to churn up. They maybe want to connect more. Maybe a parent wants to say hey, I feel super disconnected. I just want to figure out how to connect better to my young athlete. I feel like I'm just a shuttle driver now. How can I connect to them, or a young competitor can come to the organization and say hey, I'm trying to figure out, I just don't feel like I'm enough if I don't produce on the field or at school, and so we're wanting to provide an environment where people can start having those crucial conversations that can create deeper connection and potentially prevent burnout, reduce isolation and maybe help with some of the struggles that all of us are facing, whether you're a competitor or a caretaker or a coach.

Collin: 55:48

Yeah, I think that's where it happens most authentically too, when it's not something you're forcing, but it's just something that it's open and it's there and you see it in someone and it just makes you like what's different about you. That's great. So, as we're wrapping up here, I want to you know. There's nonprofit leaders who might be finding a lot of success. There's not profit leaders who might be in a tough place. What are some of the challenges that you guys have run into that you've encountered in this process? What's some of that? Maybe, if there's any fail stories that might be entertaining, but what challenges have you guys come up across and how have you worked through those?

John Harrison: 56:29

Ben, I don't have any. I haven't had a single one. No challenges, john Zero, that's why you're the VP.

Collin: 56:37

Write the book. Write the book. Talk about having the right people. Man, yeah, how to succeed without challenge?

Ben Zobrist: 56:42

Yeah, knowing him, that's a lie. No, I think mine has been. You know, anytime you start something new, and especially when you're building something, it takes a lot of effort and a lot of time. And I've got other things going on in my life too. This is not the only thing, and so John knows it's hard to find time. It's hard for me to like. I've got to make sure that he and I get to the schedule early on and then we book our times and then we try to stick to them, because there's a lot of other things that can take that time away.

Ben Zobrist: 57:19

You know, anytime you're building something new, you're usually not just, you know, getting rid of everything else in your life so that you can do this thing. You usually have a whole bunch of other things already going and you're trying to fit this new thing in, right? So that's kind of what we've both been doing. We did that at the start and now he's full time doing stuff and I'm still you know, when I can part time. We're working hours each week. I don't know what. We get 10, 15 hours a week where we really are hard. I'm hard at it, but he's hard at it, you know, most of the week, right? So it's like it's like he and Hannah and some of the other people on the team. They're working more than I am on it, but also I'm you know it's a big part of like me trying to fit that in to the other things that I'm already doing. So that's been my biggest challenge at the outset here, john. What about you?

John Harrison: 58:10

Yeah, I would say there's multiple. And now if I'm speaking to kind of early stage nonprofit leaders is going to be a little bit different than speaking to nonprofit leaders that have been around for a while. I would say the early stage is is simplify things, like just keep it simple and get an idea of what you're going to provide, how you're going to do it, and just go hammer that for six months. Go have conversations I talk about three C's a lot and find people that can do one of three things. When you're meeting with somebody, a lot of times people say, hey, how can I help you? Know, what can I do to help you? And I think giving people guidance is really helpful. And so I say, hey, we're looking for three things. We're looking for people that can connect us. So there's somebody. After I've shared with you what I've shared about who we are and what we're doing, is there anybody that comes to mind that you think I should be connected with? Maybe somebody who has a story about a young competitor that is heartbreaking or wants to know more about what we're doing, or a coach, or somebody that we should connect with an organization? The second C I say is there anybody that you think I need to be collaborating with. Who could I collaborate with? Is there an organization or a mission of another team or somebody that you're like man who comes to mind that just says you know what you guys need to meet because I think you're doing something similar and I think you all could collaborate, or who could contribute to what we're doing? So nonprofits not only have the ability to generate revenue, but they also have the ability to receive donations, and so there are people who literally feel so passionate that their personal mission is to support organizations that they believe in and that's how they participate, they contribute. And so if you have the ability to say, hey, I'm looking to connect with the right people, collaborate with organizations and get contributions from organizations or from people, that's really helpful. So early on, I think going and having those types of conversations with your network can just kind of continue to build. I've seen a lot of those conversations catalyze into some really profitable things.

John Harrison: 1:00:14

The challenge that I have faced is a loneliness. I shared this with Ben. It can be very lonely to be a nonprofit leader very lonely. Just the people. I've been in the business world, I've been in the nonprofit world.

John Harrison: 1:00:29

Most people have a perception of nonprofit leaders of, wow, they're serving, they're in their sweet spot, they must just be so fulfilled and it's like, actually it's extremely difficult. It's very, very difficult and at times it can be very, very lonely because there's only certain people that understand the weight of serving the constituents that you do. I'll just give you an example I'm getting an email almost every other day of organizations that have stories of pain, of people that have had kids who've killed themselves and are now starting a foundation because of the pressure they were under, and so people don't realize what I'm getting every day and seeing every day and exposing myself to. And yet then I'm having to go carry out 50 to 75 things on my to-do list and manage the team that we have and talk with donors and plan events, and so there's so many levers and responsibilities that you're pulling and I love it. I'm not complaining. I'm just saying that times it can be lonely, and so the challenge with that is and we talk about this organization is who do I need to connect with?

John Harrison: 1:01:35

And we look at really three phases Do I need to connect with myself? I might just be lonely for myself. Where's John in this? Am I starting to wear this as a burden and an identity. Do I need to connect with God? Do I need to spend some time and figure out OK, lord, am I just performing here? Where are you? What role are you playing? Do I need to connect with others? Who in my life do I need to be spending time with and being able to be lifted up or just have a place where I can share? But I would say, if you're a nonprofit leader out there, connect with other nonprofit leaders, because if you can find peers who are doing similar things to you and you can connect and just share, there's so much power in that and it can provide just the space and the re-energize moments that you need to continue to sustain.

Collin: 1:02:21

That's amazing.

Heredes: 1:02:22

That's powerful.

Collin: 1:02:23

This has been an incredible conversation, guys. Thank you so much. As we wrap up here, any last nugget to wisdom, whether it's to nonprofit leaders, to coaches, to athletes, parents of athletes, any last words.

Ben Zobrist: 1:02:40

My last words would just be to just keep doing your own work. The adults have to do. We have to do our own work. If we don't do our work on a daily basis, how can we expect kids to do it?

Collin: 1:02:55

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I would say that's internal work.

Ben Zobrist: 1:03:00

That's internal work. A lot of us we're doing external, a lot of external work. Out there I'm saying do your own internal work. That's the work that nobody sees, but it's the most important in my opinion.

John Harrison: 1:03:16

Connect to your story. I would say the value that I've seen is just connecting to your story with curiosity and not judgment. Connect to where you come from, connect to why you believe what you believe, why you operate the way that you do, and that self-awareness can bring just a next level of emotional attachability and connectivity that will just completely transform the human experience for you and your different relationships. So the power of connecting to your own story with curiosity, I think is a very important thing. I love it. Colin, I feel inspired.

Heredes: 1:03:52

I need to go do some work, man. I need to go take my kids out of everything. I'm not, I'm not. This was helpful, guys. Definitely. I feel like a personal therapeutic session for me, so I appreciate the health I'm getting out of this.

Heredes: 1:04:05

I will say Colin before you wrap no, we're going to list everything For those who listen even to the Cs, whether it's collaborating, whether it's contributing, whether it's just making sure that you're connecting. Make sure you connect with Ben and with John and reach out. This is part of why we do this, is creating this community, and we're better together, especially when the values align. So don't hesitate Today, reach out, send an email. We'll make sure everything is listed and all the platforms in supporting and inquiring more information or even collaborating with what they're doing.

Collin: 1:04:35

Yeah, and what I wanted to call out is you've heard the heart behind Champion Ford and this organization and what they're trying to do. It's not, they're not making it just to play for themselves. They've got their skin in the game and they've really thought it through. And so, man, reach out, reach out to them, get them connected, bring them out. I think it'll be game changer for your kids. So, guys, john Ben, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you to those of you who are listening, jumping in. We will be right back here next time on the nonprofit Renaissance. Have a good one.

Outro: 1:05:08

Thanks again for listening to the nonprofit Renaissance. We hope it ignites a Renaissance in you and helps you go further and grow faster. Be sure to share, rate and subscribe, and if you'd like to recommend or be a guest on our show, send us an email at podcastatverscreativecom.