Ever wondered how a brand like Liquid Death has managed to bottle up coolness and sell it as water? This episode's journey down the branding river will quench your thirst for understanding the magnetic pull of a product that goes beyond hydration to make a bold lifestyle statement. We tear into the story of how a beverage company has reimagined the simple act of drinking water, transforming it into an emblem of identity—whether you grab a cup of joe from your local barista or a canned mountain water, it's a reflection of who you are and the narrative you choose to present to the world.
Branding is an art, and throughout our conversation, we unwrap the layers that contribute to a brand's essence. From Liquid Death's genius in filling a gap in the beverage market with an audacious persona to the sensory bombardment of logos, tastes, and experiences that define consumer interaction—we cover it all. With every sip and every glance, a brand is telling its story, and we discuss the pivotal role this plays in forging emotional connections. It's not just about the eye-catching invitation a logo extends; it's the promise of quality and consistency that keeps customers coming back for more.
As our guest expertly breaks down, the power of a singular, well-executed branding strategy can make all the difference in building loyalty and a reputation for excellence. We share anecdotes from household names and local nonprofits to illustrate how trust in a brand's quality can resonate deeply with consumers and benefactors alike. This episode is a toast to those who understand that in the world of branding, sometimes less is more, and excellence in one formidable product can spell a legacy that lasts. So, tune in and discover how branding can do more than just sell—it can inspire and connect in ways you never imagined.
Show notes
The Nonprofit Renaissance is Powered by Vers Creative. An award winning creative agency trusted by global brands and businesses.
Follow @collinhoke
Follow @heredes
Follow @vers_creative
Work with Vers
Ever wondered how a brand like Liquid Death has managed to bottle up coolness and sell it as water? This episode's journey down the branding river will quench your thirst for understanding the magnetic pull of a product that goes beyond hydration to make a bold lifestyle statement. We tear into the story of how a beverage company has reimagined the simple act of drinking water, transforming it into an emblem of identity—whether you grab a cup of joe from your local barista or a canned mountain water, it's a reflection of who you are and the narrative you choose to present to the world.
Branding is an art, and throughout our conversation, we unwrap the layers that contribute to a brand's essence. From Liquid Death's genius in filling a gap in the beverage market with an audacious persona to the sensory bombardment of logos, tastes, and experiences that define consumer interaction—we cover it all. With every sip and every glance, a brand is telling its story, and we discuss the pivotal role this plays in forging emotional connections. It's not just about the eye-catching invitation a logo extends; it's the promise of quality and consistency that keeps customers coming back for more.
As our guest expertly breaks down, the power of a singular, well-executed branding strategy can make all the difference in building loyalty and a reputation for excellence. We share anecdotes from household names and local nonprofits to illustrate how trust in a brand's quality can resonate deeply with consumers and benefactors alike. This episode is a toast to those who understand that in the world of branding, sometimes less is more, and excellence in one formidable product can spell a legacy that lasts. So, tune in and discover how branding can do more than just sell—it can inspire and connect in ways you never imagined.
Show notes
The Nonprofit Renaissance is Powered by Vers Creative. An award winning creative agency trusted by global brands and businesses.
Follow @collinhoke
Follow @heredes
Follow @vers_creative
Work with Vers
Liquid death, one of the most valuable water brands in the last couple of years.
Heredes:Insane. Because tell me why. Because I didn't understand it at first Category. Is this necessary? Why Canned water?
Justin Price:Okay, there was no cool water the case study which we've talked about before.
Heredes:But for the podcast's sake, and we are drinking liquid death right now. So, sponsorships, please come our way.
Outro:We'll send you all of.
Justin Price:Why.
Heredes:How did they blow up? And because they came into the scene a few years ago.
Justin Price:Yeah, it was a marketing guy. He saw backstage that Monster at Warp Tour. Monster was sponsoring Warp Tour and they were putting water in the cans. Because these guys who are putting on incredible physical feats, which are musical performances, is through the summer.
Heredes:They're athletes.
Justin Price:They are athletes, especially the Warp Tour style movement with the heavier rock guys. Incredible, like they're drinking water, because that's what you need. You can't consume five monsters on stage, that amazing branding from Monster, and this marketing guy saw that, realized why. Why is there not a cool water company sponsoring this if that's what they're actually drinking? Because that's way more authentic. And he was just like oh, we can tell a story around an edgier. Look, you know, and ultimately the people care about what they carry. This came off of the heels. I don't know if you guys, what you guys, think about this, but it's pretty wild to think what's happened in the last 20 years. When you, as a professional, when you walk into the room, the cup you carry and the logo that's on, it actually matters.
Heredes:Makes a statement.
Justin Price:It tells a part of your story. Your car stays in the parking lot. A lot of people might not see it, but if you walk in with a local roasted cup of coffee or you walk in with Starbucks, 20 years ago walking in with Starbucks meant something.
Heredes:It's affordable luxury, but there's a stamp of when, out of your way, I paid three times for this experience, for this association, for this fair. Now I don't think it's there. Now I think they've lost that they did? They have lost that.
Justin Price:But even in the Circle K coffee, which I think is delicious, or Wall Walk coffee, I think is delicious as well, it's like half that price now. I think it's still like $2, $2.50, and I think you can get a Starbucks coffee for like $4, a drip coffee.
Heredes:Is it status?
Justin Price:But what you carry. So there are certain rooms I would walk into that back in the day. I would not carry a Starbucks cup into because it was like I'm going to be paying for that guy's $4 coffee. The people who I was talking to buy $2 coffee. I would stop at Circle K instead of Starbucks because of the brand message that it said. So the cup you carry means a lot, especially in business, I think in the nonprofit space. It's not a personal brand, it's like hey, we're all kind of working in a lower income environment doing something we're passionate about, but for the most part I think there's an understanding that we're I don't know. It's not really luxury in a lot of nonprofit environments it isn't really celebrated, and so affordable luxuries were. It was like this gray area of like oh, it's not okay for me to wear a Rolex, but I'm in the club if I'm drinking Starbucks.
Heredes:And they're going to drink the amounts of coffee that they could have bought the Rolex, but they drank it over two, three years. They could have instead bought the Rolex.
Justin Price:I think a lot of people in the last 20 years had to do a wake up call on how much they were spending on coffee for sure. Because it kind of just creeps up on you, doesn't it? Oh, five bucks a date, Well, five bucks a day. Then you add like the egg bites.
Heredes:And then the gum, and then the run for the friend that you're going to see.
Justin Price:So there's a tech and then all of a sudden, it's like that was a $20 trip.
Collin:Yeah, oh, yeah, that's because I've never drank just one cup of coffee. If, especially if I'm more, if I'm at Starbucks I'm usually getting a refill, right, I'm usually stopping in a low end, I get the free.
Justin Price:I get the free refill. Wait, there's refills.
Collin:Well, the on the drip Free ones, yeah, it's free. Well, they always make me pay, but it's like.
Heredes:It's like under a dollar, but I didn't know the see, I never get regular coffee anyway.
Justin Price:Yeah, because you, for the listeners, eridus drinks like a quad.
Heredes:It's a quad compana.
Collin:If it doesn't have cold foam.
Heredes:you know, cold foam or the nitro Flavor cold foam, but that's how I've gotten my hair back in the beard, you know what I'm saying. It's guys, it's there.
Outro:They don't tell you this. What do they put in it?
Justin Price:I think Eridus consumes more espresso in one day than the average person consumes in a week.
Collin:I'd say you embody cold foam. I think you you know it's my nickname in high school.
Heredes:What a cold foam. Back to branding. Back to branding Because there's that it's liquid death, liquid death.
Justin Price:So it matters what you're carrying, the brand that's in your hand.
Heredes:And they've made water cool again. Isn't it fascinating? And I think what I've seen I've seen comedians, I've seen podcast sponsors, I've seen guys who would be drinking a beer but now they've dropped a beer for the liquid death can only because it's like the guys who sit back with the. They don't enjoy cigars, but they know that holding a cigar feels like this or they don't what it does to the Sure Very social. The social the all of the above.
Justin Price:Well, it's like when we stock the fridge in the studio. We could buy like plastic water bottles where we could buy liquid death and we'll pay a premium for liquid death, but the vibe that it gives you know it plays out to. We have a black studio, we have a couple of thousand square feet, we have a lot of guests and clients come through and so we'll spend it more, we'll buy more expensive water bottles and then we'll do like the liquid death sparkling or like flavored, Because we want that vibe to carry all the way through everything we touch.
Heredes:So why? Why, justin? In your experience, what? What are some of the challenges that companies, organizations, face when trying to establish a strong brand, an identity? In this case, some organizations missed out on this lane. They ignored it, didn't explore it. Or does it take a new Company?
Collin:well, and especially for nonprofits. Why, why should they care if, if, like, their quote-unquote market is one that maybe doesn't always lend itself to having this Super well put together luxury, high-end brand, why, why should they care about this?
Heredes:Yeah, what are some of the challenges? How do you measure, like, what's the importance of it, even because someone's like no, as long as we're doing a good job with their product, the branding doesn't matter the way actually need a little bit.
Collin:I need one.
Heredes:Yeah, the identity doesn't matter. Now let's define this, though a brand is what? How would you define what a brand is?
Justin Price:So a brand is is much bigger than a package, right? So when we're talking about liquid death which, by the way, I mean there was there's never been a more successful Water company this we're talking about this brand.
Heredes:It's a brandy.
Justin Price:Well, global brand, it's four years old.
Heredes:It's insane.
Justin Price:It's founded in 2019 and skyrocketed Over a hundred million dollars for water and the margin on this stuff is crazy and the beverage industry is insane to cut.
Heredes:It's so hard, insane, I mean consumer.
Justin Price:Packaged goods is a really tough marketing industry. But again I think like just a genius founder saw a huge gap in a small market. It's like a wide, open gap in a small market which was like that edgier, healthier option. It's not beer, it's not just for sparkling, but like you're gonna drink a liquid death over a bubbly.
Collin:Speak for yourself.
Justin Price:Yeah, I mean this really came off the Lacroix but the croix and said San Pellegrino had already had full global saturation for For carbonated drinks and had some good flavored drinks out. Yes, but a lot of sugar. Liquid death did a good job of agave sweeteners, keeping the calories light, bringing good flavor.
Collin:Yep, different form factor. Yeah, and it's not like a lot of a lot of sparkling water drinks that that you know are quote-unquote flavored like. It's a very happy medium, so I've always been Super happy to drink one.
Heredes:Yeah, I know what's interesting on liquid death, specifically address this. They met a need or they noticed an imposter syndrome scenario where, okay, they're masking these cans to put water, like what's happening here. There was a brand that wasn't living up to its standard or to an Opportunity. They met them, so you know what they did that, I could have done that.
Justin Price:Yes, monster could have done. That's what I'm saying why?
Heredes:why not monster? They could have done a clear can, or they could have done something edge, and yet, and what? What are some of those opportunities, right to identify, to be looking out for? I'll tell you what?
Justin Price:there's probably a lot of other guys who could answer that much better. As far as like whether that was a good idea for monster to stay away from water and just keep selling sugar and caffeine and energy drinks. I'm not a specialist in consumer packaged Goods or the beverage industry, but I have been doing branding for nonprofits and for manufacturers for the last 20 years and so I can speak to brand and your question about you know what is brand. Brand is ultimately it's the emotional response that somebody has when they interact with your organization in any way, and so, whether they pick up your product, they experience your product, whether that's a digital element of it or a physical embodiment, or walk into an experience that you're created.
Justin Price:Obviously, I think the in-person Walk-in is the full five senses. I would say most organizations are doing a pretty poor job at Recognizing all of that. Your big retail stores have specialists who have done things as like, far as like you know, fully creating a branded scent so that there is a unique smell. You can't walk into a Nordstrom that smells different in anywhere in the world. They all smell the same. They have a branded scent. You can't walk into a Marriott double tree cookies baby, come on.
Heredes:A double tree cookie, come on.
Justin Price:It's got it all the taste, the smell, the touch.
Collin:Oh, Is a shampoo commercial.
Justin Price:So, anyways, great, great brands globally understand that the experience is a full five senses. Oftentimes we don't get to control all of those, so we only have audio, we only have something that's visual and audio we only have. You know, when we're distributing something that's digital.
Heredes:Bring it down, justin. Then to brand is this umbrella, this bigger identity picture. What does a logo have to do with that? And what's the value of the logo? If I'm a CFO, a CMO, somebody sitting there it's like dude, it's just a logo.
Collin:Well, and based on what you just said, I'm gonna say, okay, well, so it's not even about our logo, it's about how we make people feel, so we're gonna put all of our effort into that and then we're just gonna keep this crappy logo that we have. Why should they not do that?
Justin Price:Yeah, there's two thoughts. I like this idea that, you know, the invitation always has to match the party. There's a really good. There's a guy who says this all the time Charles DeMarco. He's the CEO at New Life Solutions.
Justin Price:And every meeting that we talk about branding. He's like and he's done some big marketing, global marketing campaigns. Before he was at New Life he was working on some large franchise organizations that were national and I love. You know we connect on a lot of things on marketing and branding and he gets this like the invitation's gotta match the party and so, you know, I think your logo is something like a it's a way to kind of sum up it's like a thumbnail, you know, a thumbnail for a video, or it's like the thumbnail for it's a headshot, right Like it's really not you, but it is the first glance, you know, and it says something about you. And so the cool thing is is like, yeah, you can overcome a bad headshot all day long If you're a great person, like if anybody meets Colin in person, I apologize.
Collin:If you're used to his voice. Talk about liquid death. It's the sweat alone.
Justin Price:They're gonna. If they meet Colin in person, it's gonna overcome anything that they've seen. You know online.
Heredes:You'll get past his voice. You know, you'll realize that.
Justin Price:On the podcast and you just go. I like Colin. You know the headshot doesn't matter anymore. The second that you meet somebody that is a great person, you just go. I like them, despite anything, whether you like the headshot or not. You'll like them more if you liked the headshot. So that's just a plug to meet Colin meetcollincom. Come on now?
Heredes:Yeah, click below for the meeting. Greet, oh yeah.
Collin:Yeah, the invitation does not always match the event.
Heredes:Yeah, but hey, colin's an after party. You know what? I'm saying Every time, and that's invite only.
Justin Price:The podcast rap parties are so good.
Collin:They're like, I want to meet cold foam man. Forget Colin, colin and cold foam, that's gonna be the go downtown Tampa, wow you guys got new branding.
Justin Price:I love it.
Heredes:Welcome to Colin Cold.
Justin Price:Foam. I love it. We're not, we're always working.
Collin:Always working. So okay, so like.
Justin Price:So the invitation, right Like the icon, the mark, A logo is. Typically we talk about a logo as a lockup. It's typically two things there's an icon involved and there is a word mark Adverse. We've got like just a word mark. We've thrown away the icon because the reality is like verse isn't a product company, we're a service, we're an agency and the work we do is all shown by the clients. So I don't want something we kind of treat our brand kind of like a museum, in the sense that like nobody cares really what we, what our brand looks like, Because we're we're amplifying everybody's our brand, and so we chose not to have an icon, because we have a four letter word that's pretty reasonably like recognizable, and we made we just made it simple.
Justin Price:So if you have 12 letters, an icon will sum up those 12 letters, and so a brain can see a single shape and can associate that with your organization. An icon works really well in a lot of digital formats, like a phone app. It's very, very hard to replicate that one. The hardest one, though, is the URL Favicon.
Justin Price:So, if you've ever seen the look. There's a it's 40 pixels by 40 pixels, and every brand has the opportunity to put a colored Favicon in the URL. What's really beautiful about that is when you look at all the tabs. If you're one of the people like me that has like 50 tabs open, I can scroll across all those tabs and I know exactly what site I'm on, based on a 40 by 40 pixel Favicon.
Justin Price:If you're, if you've got a wordmark, you cannot put more than one letter realistically or one shape in the Favicon. You really can't do it. Well, putting a bunch of letters into a phone app icon and that's just two applications that are digital, but they're from almost every organization there's a need for an icon, and so if you don't have that, the brain has to take the wordmark, which is going to be a combination of letters, and if you have a three letter wordmark, you're fine. Right, abc, nbc, no problem. Three letters, very recognizable, they can fit inside of a Favicon. That's really the max, even versus. You know, favicon it's not great, I'll be the first one to admit it. That's okay. We're not a global brand Like we. We serve global brands and so that's okay for us, but one day we should maybe think about that age.
Heredes:I'm on it. Okay, I'm on it.
Justin Price:But anyway. So we've got the icon in the wordmark itself, and so the logo is actually those things locked up in your logo, kind of a couple of variations. But when we talk about a brand, there is one thing that kind of is the identifier or the mark for that. That's the logo of the icon.
Heredes:Going to play devil's advocate here. How do I quantify the value of a logo? How do I quantify what it's worth, what it's doing, why? Why should I change it? Should I not change it? Is it time for rebrand? Should I change it every year? Should I? How do I quant? Can I measure that? Is that measurable?
Justin Price:Yeah, so there's a couple things. One is, if you're trying to grow, think of the brand as the core organizational essence, and then the icon is just a way for people to kind of like associate something that you've done back with the brand, back with the organization. You're like your board of advisors, whether that's like an elder board or your, or your board of advisors or your nonprofit board of directors.
Heredes:Sometimes elders right Elder boards, deacon boards, If you're in a ministry.
Justin Price:There's all sorts of different groups. They're part of the brand. Their reputations are part of the brand. Your CEO, your leader, obviously their personality, their persona is oftentimes a part of the brand. And then often some brands have to fabricate their own Tony the Tiger, frosted Flakes, chester Cheeto Like they didn't have a person. They got a consumer package, good, and that's obviously a large company with a sub-brand.
Heredes:Mickey.
Justin Price:Mouse, I'm making Cheetos, mickey Mouse. So we can fabricate personas, but one way or another, if you want people to connect with your brand, you've got persona and then you have, like, the value of the icon and the wordmark itself and it's gonna go on pretty much everything and it's just the cost of people recognizing what comes outside of your organization divided by the growth you wanna have. So the cost of people recognizing it divided by the growth you wanna have, or times the amount of people you would like to grow by, in the cost to grow by it without recognition, recognize, recognizing.
Heredes:Can you cut that.
Justin Price:Yeah, all right. So the value of a brand is basically gonna be something along the lines of the whole organization's impact vision, all the pieces right. So you got things like your leadership. You got your personas of the big personalities inside. It might even be like advisors or directors or CEOs. Those personas oftentimes take on a ton of value. The logo really doesn't take on a ton of value. It's like. I know a great example that is like Dan Cathy Chick-fil-A. You know His persona means more than the logo does. Except if I'm looking for a Chick-fil-A and I'm on a busy road and I'm trying to figure out where to turn and I miss the turn and I gotta go to the next exit, I'm not coming back for Chick-fil-A, although for me, depending I might come back for Chick-fil-A.
Justin Price:Coming back for those nugs man, but the reality is you might go to the next stop and you might not have option for Chick-fil-A. So there's a cost there. And if the average car is like 20 bucks I missed the icon because it was just a picture of Dan Cathy I missed the icon, I missed the turn, so you missed the 20 bucks from that car, or whatever your average car total is and then you also have your cost per opportunity of getting a new car, a new ticket, a new sale, and so if the icon can drop the cost, if a logo can drop the cost, if it's causing a problem right now where people are passing and they can't see it, they can't understand it. You don't have a favicon, you don't have your app, they don't open the app because every time they go to it they can't remember what color it was, because you did black and you put your wordmark in there and K-verse Jess, no, I'm gonna play Devils Out Of you Hold on.
Justin Price:You said how do we look at the value of it?
Outro:right.
Justin Price:So the value is your cost to get a customer to convert and what it can play into getting that customer to convert. So everybody's gonna have a different equation. Every organization there's not even like a CPG is not gonna have the same equation. And then you also have to look at the life of the current or existing thing. So when you change, you build a brand value based on the customer's experience. So you build brand value every time the customer engaged.
Justin Price:They believe something about the brand, good or bad. We were just talking about a brand in Tampa that closed down or filing bankruptcy and in the last year their food service kind of went down and so every time I went and tried and they didn't have coffee or the food was kind of bad and it was kind of expensive, my thought of them and my desire to bring somebody else there. It kept going down. The value of the brand went down. That's a great brand. If they were gonna change their food buyer and they're gonna lower their prices, they'd be a perfect one. To maybe change their name, not just at a logo.
Heredes:All of it.
Justin Price:But they would maybe try to change their identity as much as they possibly can. If they were gonna try to repair that Now, these guys, they're probably just gonna file bank or bankruptcy. They'll probably just fade into the night and we'll be like remember when that really cool place was open back there and they'll just and the guys who started it are great guys, there's nothing wrong with them. But they'll probably start something new with a new name and it'll be fine. Their persona is definitely a part of it. They've got some personality that people know.
Heredes:Queen country, I think, is what they're going for. That's what's next.
Justin Price:So if you cut that? So when you look at brand there's a very complex picture in value. There's a complex picture that you have to understand with changing it. And so every time we talk to somebody who goes I want a cooler logo, we have to oftentimes go how long has your logo been out there and have people been having a good experience with it? Because even if it doesn't look that cool, it has a value in the sense that when people see it they associate it with the organization and every time you change that you have to spend money to educate your market that that is now still representing you.
Justin Price:So if you wanna change your name, if you wanna change your logo that maybe used to have your name really big in it and then now it's not, now it's just a chicken, you gotta make sure people know that that chicken is you. That costs money, and so the cost or the value of any logo or icon project is going to be your previous knowledge, looking at the history of where you've been at and then your current customer or growth acquisition formula and what kind of variable it can make in it. And when we see really bad problems like inconsistency, we oftentimes suggest not changing, but just tightening up, simplifying the rules around your brand. Things like when you see a Coca-Cola bottle this is my favorite thing ever is consistency. The Coke's packaged and they've got this bottle shape. They've even worked it into their icon set right.
Justin Price:They've had it for 75 years. If you see a piece of a Coke bottle broken in the street, you know it's a Coke bottle without red and without the word mark. That is incredibly strong, Costs billions and billions of dollars to get there.
Heredes:That, or they broke into your car. But right, you'll know.
Justin Price:No, I know the difference between my broken glass in the car and a piece of a Coke bottle.
Collin:That was a joke. If anything, it makes you like the thief more, cause you're like, oh, at least he's a Coke customer. No, it is fascinating.
Heredes:Obviously. And then you're talking the years, the time, the consistency. They've refined it over time, but they've maintained consistency and they've continued to drill into the focus logo, the focus set.
Justin Price:And the top luxury experience in Coca-Cola is still drinking Coke out of a glass bottle. The same shape, yes made in Mexico. So good Real sugar.
Heredes:I wanted to get in here, justin, because if our listeners nonprofit ministry it makes sense with CPG's, consumer packaged goods or brands that are selling a product, a Coke bottle or that's not my nonprofit, though that's not my ministry I'm not handing them. So why I get it on a Nike shirt that that shirt costs five bucks. I put a Nike logo on it, it's 50 bucks. So how does that? Why does that matter for my organization? How does that play into what I need? I'm fine. It's just about who I am and it's our reputation and we're doing great work. We're doing, you know, good ministry and we're, you know, reaching these people. Logo doesn't matter.
Justin Price:Yeah, I always say that that's a great point, it doesn't matter. I was thinking about Logo project we're doing with Grace Family Church.
Outro:Hmm.
Justin Price:They have the same sign in front of their church that they've had for like 10 years or 12, 15 years since the building opened since the building opened, they never spent the money to change and put a new logo. They've had a couple different logos and the same sign is still out front.
Heredes:Yeah, what fastest growing, growing church in the country the fastest growing large church in America. So logos don't matter.
Justin Price:I. I just think it'd be hard to argue if the fastest growing large church in America hasn't changed in. Put side that it matters.
Heredes:All right, it's a wrap. Thanks for listening, guys. And you can no longer find logos on our website as a product now now.
Justin Price:Well, I mean, I'm a big. I'm a big logo fan, like I like branding, I like logos. I've been making logos since I was in high school, but the I remember when you and I first started working on that project H Like don't bring me into we kept saying we kept saying that, like it doesn't really matter, uses pseudonym. So See, that's I brand I don't know if everybody will associate with. I Don't want to educate the market that that cold foam is age, but that's such as I see a cold foam, but I Love.
Justin Price:I love the ability to talk to organizations to evaluate it whether or not it's a need. And so why? Why would a church that is Growing that fast? Well, because we know how much it costs To get a new person to walk in the doors. We've been running marketing for them for three years. We have all of the data and we know that one of the problems is is that they have a really large social media team. They produce a ton of content. They have four or five insanely valuable sub brands they've got. They've got zone Doing incredible work. Youtube, I mean some of the best kids programming in the world is coming out of. This church has no connectivity to the icon or to the name Grace Family Church. It has no connectivity to beautiful no connectivity which is a win, which is a women's ministry that's doing incredible.
Justin Price:They put on an insanely great conferences and in groups and curriculum, and I could go on about a lot of the different work that that Grace Family Church is doing. But the Icon was dropped and they try. They started playing around with different wordmarks and while they kept a blue, it actually wasn't always consistent because it's it's expensive and it's hard to be consistent. And then they started to realize that the icon they had that they had purchased for about a hundred bucks off of a site called 99 designs, which I have no problem with 99 designs we refer a lot of people to 99 designs and I think there's a great place for that. I think it's about a thousand bucks to two thousand bucks now to use them. But but back in the day when they bought their logo from there, they bought a very generic logo that it actually about a hundred other churches also bought, and so when you saw their logo, which was like a cross and a circle, you didn't really know what church that was representing in the blue. You didn't really know Was the same church that was Grace Family Church. So you really were stuck to seeing the whole word mark. The icon itself wasn't doing the job. And then, when the word mark started changing and the icon was being dropped out and social was doing something and beautiful Was doing something and zone was doing something, we're missing All of this incredible work, and if it could have just had one icon that identified it, that was unique and stood out, you could have grown without having to spend money running ads. You could have grown from all those other things where people could make an association, a brand association that we're paying for as we try to grow and reach people that don't know anything about that organization.
Justin Price:And so consistency, tightening up the brand and helping an organization a lot of organizations it's not the thing that that makes them good, but they're great. Organization, your organization might be amazing, but if people are interacting with pieces of it or people of your organization and they're in your people are wearing a shirt or a hat and they can't even connect it back Because it's not legible or because it's not that appealing, or like People aren't wearing your stuff because it's not that cool or that good equality Then you're missing out on this opportunity for people to associate back to what your organization is. And so I Look at this very holistically and I look at the formula as a very loose and I just start to say, after 20 years of doing this, there's a couple things I'll take away that I'll just I'll throw down here. The first takeaway is Put your logo in your branding. It be consistent with it.
Justin Price:That's the first one. Even if it sucks, stop changing it, just just be the sucky, just just keep it Consistent and commit to it. The second thing is is put it on the best thing you can. Okay, did Nike check itself positioning?
Justin Price:is not Good. It's not all. It's a long format. It's a very thin line in a big square or a circle. From a balanced standpoint, has too much negative space around it. It's not necessarily the best logo, agree. The second that Michael Jordan's foot slips into a Nike though that thing is worth a billion dollars I, because he's on the best basketball player, one of the best athletes that ever lived and then, way beyond that, was their deal to make Nike associated with Jordan, as like a he's a owner, like he's getting sales from everything, and then putting the Jordan brand into Nike brand, so as like a core sub brand, right? So you put the best athlete in the world as one of your sub brands. That's a pretty amazing persona story, right there, right? So I say all that to say.
Justin Price:Second thing is put your logo on the best thing. If you have influence influential people in your organization, spend the money to embroider a good quality shirt that they wanna wear, because if they wore it twice as much as they wore your crappy shirt, you're getting way better exposure. I think shirts, hats and t-shirts, golf shirts, whatever it is are by far your best as an organization. They're way better than billboards. I think they're your best bang for your buck. I'll spend 20 bucks all day to put my logo on somebody who I love, I believe in, I support because they have the opportunity to actually engage with somebody else in the community and to represent the brand as a persona in the community, and so that's my number. Two thing is put it on the very best thing again, whether that's your best people, whether they're on staff or not, give those shirts away to everybody possibly can.
Justin Price:And the last takeaway I will just say is focus on what you can do well and stop spreading your brand thin. And so I would just say like, if you can just do one shirt, just print one shirt well, don't try to print 3,000, print one shirt well. If you can do one giveaway, do a good giveaway. That's not gonna end up in the trash and give it away to less people, make it less accessible and it might feel counterintuitive, but I just I'm a big fan of quality over quantity and for your brand unless you are specifically trying to say we are a cheap brand and we want people to feel cheap things I would say go for that.
Justin Price:Quality, quality experience, quality engagement, quality resource and so the things you do, even if it's just tightening up your organization, cut out your bad programming that you've been like. You spread yourself way too thin, and so we can get in strategically and say, hey, there's just a 10% trim or 15% trim Verse. I mean, we have to do this every year. We have to trim things up. We've got a product offerings that just don't make sense anymore. We got to trim them off and stop doing them when they're not really that valuable. They're not that good, they're focused on the quality.
Justin Price:Stick to the thing that's the most valuable.
Heredes:Anyways, there you go. I love the trap with this Favorite or iconic, a brand that you feel connected to, you feel loyal to what comes to mind. I think you're wearing yours right now, justin. We got to talk about this because I've been staring at it little hoodie envy going on here right now. But tell me about the three stripes you're wearing.
Collin:Man, I missed a great Victoria's Secret joke right there. I would have been.
Justin Price:I don't really have a good brand that I can. Really that I feel comfortable talking about.
Heredes:Wow.
Collin:Is there a client that we have that you'd feel comfortable?
Justin Price:shouting out I feel like the great. I really just said Grace was using a brand. Oh yeah, which we did a lot of that and I think I honestly I tell people I'm proud of that church and I'm proud of going there. So you want to go head to head on that? H yeah, yeah.
Collin:Are you proud? H oh man.
Outro:Yeah, I love their logo, Love it.
Heredes:Xbox. How was that?
Justin Price:How was the talking about that Grace logo? Was that a pretty good answer? No, you can cut it.
Heredes:No, it's good. I think it's a good one to talk about. It's also vision casting that good, it's good.
Justin Price:The filter with.
Heredes:Grace is just like it's tough for me with a Grace context.
Collin:Outside of that, all good, my only thought with it is if they hear it, is it going to come off negatively in any way?
Outro:No.
Collin:Is it going to come off like we were like? We're mashing the ones who aren't like on board. No, I think that'd be my only worry. I feel like it's probably one of our strongest examples of branding.
Justin Price:The logo that we don't have on this one.
Heredes:Yeah, that's what I'm saying, Just because it isn't because it's getting rejected. It's getting rejected by the way, they're starting over, which they're not, but they are. So that's what to me, it feels like. But that's on them, not on us, really.
Collin:Yeah, how many times have we started over? Yeah, seven.
Heredes:Basically.
Outro:Yeah.
Heredes:Let's do another, or do you want to? Well, we can wrap this one.
Justin Price:I'm just trying to think through like I'm concerned because most of the brands I really like are they're not going to be relatable to the ICP.
Heredes:I know yeah.
Justin Price:I don't want to talk about fear of God, Adidas. I don't think that's relatable for the ICP.
Collin:I think you made a big deal about GFC, so that's an example there.
Heredes:Okay, let's go here, let me phrase it. Tell me this, I'll talk about an organization. Hey, as we wrap, tell me about a logo, slash, brand, slash, identity of an organization that over time, you've connected with or has built trust that you would give your money to, that you would volunteer at that you we talked about Grace today. Obviously, the reputation in Tampa Bay area and beyond is excellent. The brand matches that, the personnel matches that. What others have done that for you guys.
Justin Price:I mean the Tampa Bay area specifically. There's a ton of really good organizations. We work with a lot of them and I'm super grateful for those opportunities to work with them. There's organizations that are doing a lot of work, that are pretty broad and widespread, and one that I think is really doing a lot of work and and gives away a lot and has worked hard to build a reputation of being good stewards of the money you give and the time you give to them is Metropolitan Ministries. I think you know you'll see advertising from them around town and you don't feel like I can't believe they're getting. I mean, maybe it's just me, because I know that they get out. You know they'll get billboards for free Because they have such a good reputation and so I don't feel bad that there's. You know they're on a billboard.
Heredes:I had a recent experience that for me was inverted the icon and the name of Identified and I've known forever, which is Advent health, never had to experience their brand until recently, had to take one of my kids in for a few nights into the hospital and boy I'm telling you, it was an incredible experience.
Heredes:No way it felt like I was pulling up to a resort. The care was incredible, the personalization, the follow-through. I'm talking I was sold, I haven't seen the bill yet, my insurance will handle that. But to connect that brand now with that experience at a time of pain, how they met the need and how they comforted us very in, very, very impressed. Which hospitals and health care and ERs and urgent cares they usually don't right there, right.
Heredes:And then that one, and it was unique to the one we went to, maybe because of the people there. So I commend them, will link you to this, put the link on that location, on this episode. But I was impressed. It really created that. I'm talking from what they were wearing on the front, the consistency to the pins and the jackets, the overlays to the smell of a hospital lobby, to the Paintings and the consistency to the the wall decor. I mean all it was incredible. I was, I felt like a hotel, a Four or five star hotel Lobby experience. And then we get into the room, obviously pediatrics and for kids, the attention to detail for the kids, asking my son what their favorite toy was and then 20 minutes later Popping in with the little car toy for him to change. Change the game, change the game.
Justin Price:That's really a very impressive.
Heredes:So props to admin health well.
Collin:And I'm gonna say like their logo you guys, you stop doing vacations.
Justin Price:I noticed you just keep going back.
Heredes:I call in sick and I show up to the hospital right I?
Justin Price:I hear I've been feeling bad sending meals to your house, but turns out you guys have just been living it up down at out bed. Health brother, their chicken picadas. Sleeping conditions are not at that level, but it's been trying to like take clients to the hospital. He's like you got.
Heredes:Oh, don't listen to these guys, which one is it?
Justin Price:Where is it? It was, it was in um I.
Heredes:Gotta look into that. Yeah, no, you honestly, you'd be impressed, you would. Their coffee shop in the lobby is incredible, is it? It is, it's the one on the ends of Bruce be downs and it's in the end of Carol. What air, I couldn't tell you the address, but oh, it's not it's not the hospital in van dyke. It's not the one on van dyke. Okay, no, it's. Yeah, it's not even the closest one to me, but but you'll drive past a couple you know, and the spa, their pool I'm sorry I've been health.
Heredes:It's incredible. We'll find, we'll give you the props because your staff was amazing and is amazing and grateful for the care of having health. Colin, last one and we're out go, I gotta give one billion dollar branding project.
Justin Price:Yeah, that's a super tough one, yeah, uh.
Collin:You don't need to hear mine. This has been enough. So thank you so much for listening to the nonprofit renaissance. We will see you next time, bye, bye.
Outro:Thanks again for listening to the nonprofit renaissance. We hope it ignites a renaissance in you and helps you go further and grow faster. Be sure to share, rate and subscribe and if you'd like to recommend or be a guest on our show, send us an email at podcast at first creativecom.