In this episode, we sit down with Pastor Jeff Sullivan, who has transitioned from traditional church ministry to serving as a chaplain for both the military and local police departments. Jeff shares his compelling story, discussing the unique challenges and rewarding experiences he has encountered in his chaplaincy roles. He explains how his faith underpins his service, offering hope and comfort in high-stress environments.
Jeff provides valuable insights into the practical aspects of becoming a chaplain, emphasizing the importance of relational ministry and the significant impact chaplains can have on the communities they serve. Through heartfelt anecdotes and practical advice, this episode highlights the critical support chaplains provide and the difference compassionate leadership can make. This discussion is particularly relevant for non-profit leaders looking to enhance their community outreach and support initiatives, offering inspiration and guidance on how to effectively serve those in need.
Show notes
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In this episode, we sit down with Pastor Jeff Sullivan, who has transitioned from traditional church ministry to serving as a chaplain for both the military and local police departments. Jeff shares his compelling story, discussing the unique challenges and rewarding experiences he has encountered in his chaplaincy roles. He explains how his faith underpins his service, offering hope and comfort in high-stress environments.
Jeff provides valuable insights into the practical aspects of becoming a chaplain, emphasizing the importance of relational ministry and the significant impact chaplains can have on the communities they serve. Through heartfelt anecdotes and practical advice, this episode highlights the critical support chaplains provide and the difference compassionate leadership can make. This discussion is particularly relevant for non-profit leaders looking to enhance their community outreach and support initiatives, offering inspiration and guidance on how to effectively serve those in need.
Show notes
The Nonprofit Renaissance is Powered by Vers Creative. An award winning creative agency trusted by global brands and businesses.
Follow @collinhoke
Follow @heredes
Follow @vers_creative
Work with Vers
Hanging out in the 305. Yeah With, there's a list of accolades that I can list. I'll list some of them, because you're from sitting on the board of care large organization, from executive pastor an amazing church in Miami Granada Church to chaplain for the police department, for the army currently, and tons more I can say. But the most important is you were when I was a teenager. You were one of my pastors. Way back right and that just makes either you old or me, I don't know crazy because we talked about this but way back in the day, in start, early ministry days, you were doing it, you were pastoring. You were church planning. You were doing it, you were pastoring, you were church planning you were.
Jeff Sullivan:Is that right? And that seems like a different lifetime ago, doesn't it? It does, it does Out in the West.
Heredes:Kendall. And now did you parachute into Miami?
Jeff Sullivan:No, Well. No, I came and married a Cuban, so is that parachuting? Or would that be sailing into Miami? I think I'm an illegal alien to Miami. I crossed the border.
Heredes:So okay, yeah, that's different than parachuting in. Once you get into the Cuban, you got into the Cuban mafia from the beginning.
Jeff Sullivan:Yes, yeah, I got in, I bought in, I came in to be Cuban and then I started church. I love it, so that's kind of the way it played out.
Heredes:All to say to our listeners, jeff and I go way back and you're listening from Jeff Sullivan and currently XP at Granada Church, an incredible place here in Miami. If you're in the area, if you're looking for a place incredible people you need to stop by. Our team has been in partnership and working in lots of overlap and family and friends who are here, but it's exciting because today we're talking specifically about something kind of dear to his heart and something that I've explored as well that I have family who are exploring in the service per se, but that's chaplaincy. So tell us a little bit first your journey into that pastoring and now chaplaincy and doing both and and how that works.
Jeff Sullivan:Yeah, it's very interesting because I've only been a chaplain for two years and I'm 47 now, so I got started at the age of 45, which is pretty late for military careers. Typically you start young. That way you can be young and fit and do all the stuff you're supposed to do.
Heredes:Which I want to talk. That's a great misconception even to start with, because most people assume you may have to start in what? In your 20s maybe, or in your 30s Not necessarily For chaplaincy, I would guess probably 30s would be ideal, because then you can't start.
Jeff Sullivan:But so young because it is a requirement for military chaplains to have a Master's of Divinity. So you figure, if you've got four years of school plus three years of school, you're looking at seven. The earliest you could be is probably like 25. And then they need two years experience. So if you just had it as a dream right out of high school to do it, you still wouldn't do it for 10 years. So you know, so there is some, you know, part of that that just is already going to make you a little bit older in it.
Jeff Sullivan:But, um, I think there's an advantage to being older in in the chaplaincy because there is a level of life experience you know. So, like I have a son who is 23 years old. Wow, the soldiers that I'm talking to are that age, some even younger, that's so. So it allows you to have more of a father figure, have a little more wisdom, to share life experience, understanding of what, what's important or not, than when you're younger. Like even myself at 30 is not going to see the world the way I do at 47. It's just you just understand life differently at that point. So it does help being in there as you're older.
Heredes:I love that and I want to get into some details To our listeners. I asked Jeff to kind of put on the chaplain hat. There's so many things he's great at and people he oversees and how he pastors and leads, but I wanted to talk about this one because in talking to you there's a need Right, maybe for your local police department, or there's hospitals, the need for good chaplaincy and good care. In that sense, how did you kind of come into it and break it down a little bit? What does a chaplain do?
Jeff Sullivan:Oh, so, I would say, let's say I was talking to someone that I want to encourage you to be a chaplain, or maybe you're thinking about should I be a chaplain? So first, it's a new opportunity to serve. If you're service-minded, that it's kind of built into your DNA, or you're part of ministry, that you'll have opportunities to serve people. You like to be in that spot when things are rough, that you're like. You know, I like to be the person people talk to. I like the one who brings hope. You know, if you're, you know, that kind of person, then chaplaincy is just an ideal role for you, because the most crucial moments of chaplaincy are when things are difficult. A couple of recent examples that I could share. So I'm a volunteer at the Coral Gables Police Department as a chaplain, because their chaplaincy program is not paid, it's all volunteer-based and there's a few other pastors and a Catholic priest and a rabbi. We're on a team together to serve the local police department here.
Heredes:Is that standard, Jeff? The volunteer forces, it varies it depends.
Jeff Sullivan:Is that standard, jeff? The volunteer forces it varies, it depends. So maybe, if you're like, miami-dade County has paid chaplains and volunteer chaplains. Gotcha Broward Sheriff's Department has a great chaplain team, so it's really dependent on how that department operates. So many of them are volunteer, based on just budgetary.
Jeff Sullivan:But you might be living in a county or you know a municipality that they've already budgeted to have a chaplain and so that would be a paid position and it's worth a paid position because there is so much a chaplain can do. And then I think, on a volunteer level it comes to be where you, your chaplain, does. What's the, what's needed to be done, whereas what? So there's a lot of room for, you know, possibility when someone's full-time, but, um, the a great value, I think in. Let's just speak as from my experience as a volunteer police chaplain, you have to understand the police department to me is a higher risk organization than the military, because as a military chaplain, the armed forces go somewhere and fight an enemy somewhere else and then come home. The police department, their battle is in their own neighborhood, their backyard.
Jeff Sullivan:And it's, and there's a high tension because most stops and interactions are fine but you don't know which one's going to not be the one. You don't know which one is the one that is risky or dangerous or is going to be very hostile, very hostile, and it could be as much as what would normally be. A sweet old lady in the neighborhood could be just chewing out because they feel like they have the ability to yell and scream, or it could be, you know, real life-threatening danger. So there's an on-edge in the police department and then there's not a separation because you drive home. You're driving home a few miles, you're not deploying and leaving it and saying, whew, that place, that part, and that's why it is such a very difficult job. That's why you know police work is very hard, not just the life-threatening part, you know, because there's that risk. But you know most officers, you know aren't going to have shots fired at them or have to shoot. That's not a constant, constant thing, but it is a constant stress, emotional, uh. It's constant conflict happening with whoever you pull over it's. It's so managing that on a day-to-day uh is difficult and then, um, you see the worst of everything in your neighborhood. So when the police are called, it's because something terrible. So you don't see best of things, you see the worst of things and it colors your world. So police officers really need chaplains to bring hope, to be a confidential listener, to be an encourager, to be on their team, to know that there's a place to be.
Jeff Sullivan:And I would definitely encourage if you, you know, are a pastor, wherever you're hearing this, check in and see what is the situation like at your police department. Do they have a volunteer chaplaincy? Are they looking for more? You know at first, you know if they don't know you and you don't know them just like anybody else, if you show up at my door, I'm not giving you a job, but if you know, oh okay, there is a need. Let me start to lay some groundwork to prepare for that. For me it was volunteering on committees, spent time on different committees, you know, like anti-crime or neighborhood watch, stuff like that. Then you establish to the police that you are a citizen who cares and that you're a pastor who would be available, and then from there then you have enough trust that they invite you into it. You know, if it's not like an open position you apply for a lot of times it's relational, but I think every church should look at its community and say is this something that we could be doing?
Heredes:Pete. I love that. Jeff, you've done it bivocationally, in a sense that you've maintained full-time ministry, always serving the local church involved. How is that possible? How would you encourage someone who's on a staff at a church or someone who needs to look in, so it's's not a conflict or wait? Is there different career pursuits or a calling? Talk to me about that. How have you managed it? How do you encourage others to look at it for police, but also for military?
Jeff Sullivan:I would say a lot of that has to do with how the church, what expectations the church has for its pastor. I'm very thankful at Granada there is a very openness here to allow pastors to find ways to be ministers in the community and not just be pastors at the church. And so having that type of margin in your staff is good so that, like for me, that becomes a whole new outlet of ministry. It doesn't always translate directly to church attendance or things like that, but it does create a high level of goodwill of my church in the community. So now all the police officers know the pastor at that church volunteers his time for them. Same for my city. Commissioners know that that's the case. So when you talk about that civic local government which is very important to the local church, how you pastors count for church growth, it does go a long way in community involvement and opportunity.
Jeff Sullivan:On the military side there's a couple advantages this could be for a church staff, church staff For one. For me personally I didn't realize to what level it would expand my own leadership and communication and pastoral care. Some of it I mean when you're in the Army Reserve. Army Reserve is training, training, training, training, training. Now a lot of it's sitting around at PowerPoint. You know, if you talk to anyone in the military, it's death by PowerPoint or something they'll say that you know. So when you're experiencing that, you're like, well, this isn't really teaching me in such a way that's going to make me a better person, but the way it does is.
Jeff Sullivan:As a pastor for many years, I was always surrounded by church people and then, as growing up, you have seminary, you have your MDF, so you insulate yourself from the world at such a high level that you're only used to talking to Christians or people who are already walking in the room exploring Christianity, and you're placed in the general population of the US military, even though a heavy percent of that does check the box Christian. As opposed to other religions, it's a little different, right, they're not going to church, they don't know their pastor's name, they don't have you know, and so now you're having daily conversations.
Heredes:Now you're in the world, not of the world, but you're in the world Exactly. You're hearing daily conversations. Now you're in the world, not of the world, but you're in the world Exactly. You're hearing it, feeling it, seeing it. You're having the locker room talk slash. Water cooler talk slash. I'm sure you've heard everything in between.
Jeff Sullivan:Well then you end up having to really start to speak differently, because you can't just say well, the Bible says this blank and this verse this and this, because now you have to talk to someone who's not using the Bible as their primary reference point. They're 40, yeah, so it teaches a level of apologetics. I love that, but not a debate, apologetics or not in my case. I would hope other chaplains the same.
Heredes:You don't go to the debate people because it doesn't really do that, but you start to learn how they're thinking and how you can express the gospel in ways that match what they're looking for and how to serve, or strategy in a rational way to explain something that to us is right put into Christianese Right, we understand it and it's. I love that. I love that. Now, with that said, obviously, jeff, christian evangelical pastor, some taboos here. With chaplaincy, all are welcome, all are open. There's again even, I guess, laws and legalities here, but All religions welcome to become a chaplain.
Jeff Sullivan:Yes.
Heredes:Tell me about that. Is there any conflict there? Is that good, bad ugly? How's that handled? Because a Buddhist or a priest is going to maybe handle things different than a you name it Pentecostal, presbyterian or pastor.
Jeff Sullivan:Yeah. So my only experience is the Army Reserve, which is an excellent chaplaincy program. So it is interfaith. So in the Army Reserve you will have predominantly, though you're going to have Protestant Christian, which is a huge majority of the population, as well as the chaplains. Then you will have a small population of Roman Catholic. You'll have a very small minority of rabbi or imam and then you'll have an occasional other, whether that might be Hindu, buddhist, sikh, anything outside of those normal, what we expect in the normal population, so those kind of outliers. So it is still predominantly a Christian thing.
Jeff Sullivan:But you do have to have the flexibility to work with others. So if you're very rigid about your doctrine, you're going to have a hard time serving alongside of other people. Your doctrine you're going to have a hard time serving alongside of other people. You do have to realize that, hey, I'm working in a situation that's outside of my church, so I have to be willing to play fair in the sandbox with others that it's not my place. You know, at my church I can say this is what we say, what we do, because any of you come in, you've already agreed to that. Because you're saying I'm coming into your church, pete, my house, my rules right. And if you come in, you've already agreed to that, because you're saying I'm coming into your church, pete, my house, my rules right, jared, right.
Jeff Sullivan:If I'm coming into the army, that's not my place. I am in this place. That is not a religious setting, and so I'm bringing it in, but I have to realize there's other people in the room that I have to be, you know, play fair with. Now, one good thing, even in the Army Code of Doctrine, is that, as a you know, so a chaplain is endorsed by a certain denomination. So the Army partners with the denominations, which is part of a requirement, correct, correct.
Heredes:There's the MDiv at all levels, even for police Police is different.
Jeff Sullivan:Different Police is different. Departments are able to set their own rules.
Heredes:Gotcha.
Jeff Sullivan:So a ministry, even a bachelor's or a Bible degree or even experience in ministry over a period of time, it's whatever that chief of police wants, if he just thinks you're a cool guy and you do a good job, there's no rules to them.
Heredes:So maybe even Colin, our co-host here, colin, you may qualify. Colin, I know you're listening right now. You couldn't be in Miami with us, but I know you're going to take a break right now and defend yourself right now. But I think you're cool enough, man. I think you may do it. You can do it. You can do it right.
Jeff Sullivan:Well, if the chief likes him, we'll see. But in the Army there's a partnership. So you have your endorser, which is your denomination. So whether you're Presbyterian, baptist, assemblies of God, catholic, whatever, that your denomination will validate. You say this is a qualified candidate of our faith, and then they'll recommend you to the army and then the army will commission you. So you have, basically you have two oversights the army has the general rule and then you have your specific denominational. So the army will never ask me to violate my denominational rules.
Jeff Sullivan:So, whatever those might be, particularly I do not have to violate my own faith to serve others, gotcha. So the way they describe it in there is that you either perform or provide. So I either perform the religious service for you or I provide it. So let's say you believe something different than me, then it's just my job as your chaplain to say you know what? Let me find a chaplain who believes what you believe and I'll contact you to them. So that allows. You know, I know a lot of people worry about some of the social changes. You know.
Heredes:How does that happen? Have you seen some of that? Has some of that happened?
Jeff Sullivan:socially. Well, the general population has changed so much, so, yeah, and the army is just the general population, it's not different, it's the same as the general population, you find, and it's just a cross-section of that in various ways. So the beliefs will be very similar to what everyone else has.
Heredes:What have you seen, jeff, in a time of hurt, time of need, I think, as creation, as humankind, there's a certain need and there's a certain void, there's a certain what have you seen there? Because at that, at those levels, have denominations? Have there been any obstacles have there been? Are people open? Has it been a good witnessing or gospel opportunity, like what are some of those stories or things you've heard and experienced? What are some?
Jeff Sullivan:of those stories or things you've heard and experienced, I would say this Almost no one and no one by my experience, and probably almost no one will reject you saying can I pray for you? So simply pray for people. If they're going through a hard time, just say, let's stop and pray for it right now. And I've always find overwhelming positive response to that. People say, oh, thank you, chaplain, I feel so much more at peace, I feel so much. You know even just that moment. If you realize, if you're just going to affirm someone through prayer and pray God's blessing in their life and pray for the things that are bothering them, you're going to gain that relational equity and and you're going to invite Christ's presence into that moment and that's going to mean a lot to them. And then your example as a good Christian man or woman People watch you. They want to know does this person speak differently, look differently, act differently? Do they have other people's best interests in mind? Do they look like Christ in a way that they would see it? And then if you're doing those things, you've now earned the respect of your words. And so then your chapel service or your Bible study you give out, or whatever, now people are receptive to it or whatever. Now people are receptive to it.
Jeff Sullivan:So I would say what would be different in the general population now than maybe, say, when I was young, is that people are very open, so they don't want something to be too closed off.
Jeff Sullivan:So if you keep things open-ended or you focus on the positive, you have a much greater chance of working with them towards something and you can bring them into a knowledge of Christ or bring them to a recognition of Christ. If you try to close off a lot of boundaries, people get anxious about that. They don't want to be kind of pinned into something, they want to be able to pick. And I know for a lot of people that's like, well, that's not the truth, and you're like that. They don't want to be kind of pinned into something they they want to be able to pick. And I know for a lot of people that's like, well, that's not the truth, and you're like, well, you could still bring the truth in. You know, absolutely. You just gotta, I think, be more aware of of what's going to gain ground with them or or what's going to end your conversation quicker.
Heredes:That's good. That's good. Jeff, tell me you know we like to talk at the podcast a lot about the wins, success, but also sometimes failures and give us a time wherein, okay, this went south, this was difficult, you learned something and give us a story of like man, god did this or God used me and the team for, can you share an experience that comes to mind?
Jeff Sullivan:Sure, I guess one of the easy things to do in like a military chaplain role, or even in a police chaplain role, is, like your desire to blend in and to be part of the group can be so, and so you steer away from a little bit of boldness, you steer away from maybe being awkward and asking to pray. You know you steer away and you just want to kind of, you know, not be a officer or soldier. They have those and they have training for that and that's what they do, and so. So a failure that that I experienced is I'll find myself realizing, oh, this, this entire event, or this entire day, all I did was, you know, try to not be weird or not be, you know, abrasive, and then I ended up not being to chaplain he a peer at their level, where you're coming in with a level one spiritual authority, but authority for care and leadership and right.
Heredes:Does a chaplain rank higher than a soldier? Does that play into any of this or no? Chaplains?
Jeff Sullivan:have ranks, they're all officers, they all are officers. They have rank. But really that rank, the rank, really doesn't have anything to do. You don't give orders to anyone in your unit. You have, like an assistant, a chaplain assistant or two that you are responsible to and you give orders to them. But like I don't technically ever order other soldiers to do or not do I am a rank, I can, you know, do that you know, and they can't, you know, disrespect me in a certain way. But that's not. I don't have any, you know mission to be giving people charge over, and even within the chaplaincy there's levels, but that's usually just for. Yeah, I have a you know someone, a major, who I report to and he is, you know, my boss. He can oversee me, tell me what not to do, what to do, gotcha. So he outranks me and does that. But typically in the military you don't call chaplains by their rank, you just call them chaplain Bingo. So that's the goal is that we'd have one job and it's not based on rank.
Heredes:Tell me before the success story Mm-hmm, do you have to go to boot camp? I'm sure that's everybody's question on the podcast.
Jeff Sullivan:There is an officer's training, something called BOLIC, basic Officer Leadership Course. The chaplains go through Air Force, navy and Army. They do it differently. The Army it's 13 weeks. It does include about four weeks of basic training type stuff, but it is not the same level as a soldier, like the 18-year-old signing up for the drill sergeant.
Heredes:Is it a five-minute mile or something crazy like that?
Jeff Sullivan:No, you don't have to be in that great of shape. Unfortunately, the standard for You're in shape, man.
Heredes:You're doing great. Are you doing like pull-ups every day and doing?
Jeff Sullivan:That's my choice to try to be at the top of the list, not the bottom of the list. I love it, but you can the. The minimum requirements for officers in the army reserve is pretty low. If you're not injured and you you do your basic mobility, you'll be able to do it. Gotcha, you know. So it's not, and if you just put a little bit of effort you'll. You'll get yourself there if you aren't there, so that's not really a huge, huge obstacle cool story.
Heredes:Cool story maybe god's done something you've experienced and seen god do through the chaplaincy.
Jeff Sullivan:Something I thought was so a powerful experience was the opportunity. We went into a situation that was very heavy. There was a loss of life and we were kind of working through with different relationships, and I had the opportunity to have like a joint counseling session. It was the civilian who was a part of the staff there and she had been a part of it a long time. It was myself as a chaplain and it was one of the army psychologists, because the army does provide behavioral health. There is a whole behavioral health system with, um, nurse practitioners, you know, occupational therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, like all of that is in there, and the medical part of the army. And we both had the opportunity to to help a lady who had been close to a suicide situation and, um, this was an interesting dynamic because typically a chaplain or a psychologist would work separately, not together, and this just kind of like happened in the situation that it was and neither one of us had ever done this together, and so we were both like curious, like well, how's this going to go, especially since he's you know he's atheist and you know he and I know that we're in the same unit together. We're friends. He's a very respectful person. He's a great person. You know that's the faith choice that he's made at this time. And so you know we were there and so we were going to serve together through this. And so you know he did a great job of what he does. You know, a therapist asks the right questions, validates, directs, all that good stuff. And then you know it was my turn as a chaplain to kind of wrap it up. And you know, and so I did what a chaplain does, just affirmed and spoke to her, and in the end I asked her hey, can I pray for you? And she says yeah, so I just prayed for her. You know, just pray a blessing over someone, and just the way that you would, as a pastor, did the atheist pray with you, see, and so that's the thing.
Jeff Sullivan:Later he comes, because this was the cool part, that's why I have a lot of respect for him, because he doesn't have to say any of this, but he does. He comes back late and he says, you know, I didn't know what that was going to be like, because I'd never worked with a chaplain at the same time. And then he says, when you said, can I pray for you, he was like, should I get up and leave and he's like no, that would look really weird if I left for this, let me just stay, you know. So he stays, I love it. And you know what he's like.
Jeff Sullivan:I felt peace when you prayed for her and and so one of the other soldiers like you mean, you felt like she had some peace. He's like, no, I felt peaceful. It's like I understood why there's chaplains and oh, that's cool. You know he says you didn't convert me, but but I see what you do and I'm thankful for what you do and I appreciated it and I what you do and I appreciated it. And I don't know, man, I appreciate that you would say that and that you would be vulnerable, like that and talk about it. And then I ask him how did I do? Because sometimes pastors like to give answers and not ask questions when people talk. And so he validated some of the work I was doing that's great of the work I was doing. That's great. So, and that's the thing, when you're present in those situations, now there's a bridge he and I have and who knows how God will use that Absolutely. You know, I have no idea how God's going to reveal to him.
Heredes:Right, god's at work, obviously in us first, yeah, but the 360, right, the person you're ministering to, but those all around and you never know you're ministering to, but those all around and you never know.
Jeff Sullivan:I love that. I love hearing that. It was very validating for me to. Oh, this is why I'm a chaplain. This is great.
Heredes:I love that. That's encouraging. Yeah, I love it because in your role as an executive and sitting on boards there's an administrative executive leadership kind of piece which I'm sure this allows you to kind of have this different expression and shepherding and listening and caring which is and it's an outreach, it's not self-serving or internal, in a sense that you're not just, well, it's this organization that's paying me, no, it's out. So thanks for doing that, thanks for inspiring, I think the conversations we've had. It's motivated and inspired our team. Some of the folks who are listening Tell me this to the next generation of chaplains and the future and us caring for them. And from locally in our departments, with the sheriff or overseas, who get deployed active, not just reserve. What's a word of advice, encouragement and hope to them.
Jeff Sullivan:Yeah, for one. To those who aren't yet in it, I would say chaplaincy is a great opportunity. It's actually a growing ministry. I mean you could call it also a growing job field that, whether it's a military chaplain or law enforcement chaplain, they now have marketplace chaplains, large corporations are hiring chaplains and there's a lot of great organizations that will bring you on as a chaplain team, especially if you live in a metropolitan area, and then they'll assign you to different places hospital chaplains it's actually its own profession.
Jeff Sullivan:So if you are a person who wants to be in ministry but maybe you're not able to have a full-time position as a pastor at a church, that is a beautiful opportunity to do something bivocational or to have all of your income come through chaplaincy and then serve in a church. Also, I see that as opportunity. Maybe if you're listening and you're like in a smaller church and, um, like, health costs are ridiculous for staff and so, like you say, man, we had like 50, $60,000 to pay a youth pastor or a part-time pastor, but we can't give their family insurance because that's another 30, 25,000. 25,000. Well, if you're willing to share your time with them and if they are one of these government agencies, then they're going to get healthcare at a much discounted rate and then you can still have them on staff. But then they have this new world of opportunity outside the church and in the church.
Jeff Sullivan:But you can take care of people in a better way. So love that. It creates more flexibility If your organization, if your church, is willing to share the person. Because obviously that I mean as a reserve chaplain. You're gone one Sunday a month and then you have trainings and you have a risk of deployment, but all your other time you're there and you can really grow from that, and you can really grow from that your question was what would I say to?
Heredes:you know, some lasting advice to a chaplain, yeah, the chaplain in the future, the young ones, those entering, and I think I love that. Even some of those practical, tactical, but you know, even fiscal and financial kind of benefits that could come along could benefit a nonprofit, Could benefit a church and, personally, families that are seeking opportunities to stay in their gift lanes, to stay in their strength, so that's fantastic. Any more perks like that Play I know you're not a recruiter for them, Maybe not yet, Maybe after this podcast. No, I don't mind recruiting. I think it's a great thing. What others Throw down the list of some benefits to being a military.
Jeff Sullivan:I mean, obviously, healthcare is one of the better. The money's not going to be great, it's a fixed amount, it's good, it's supplemental. But here you have Reserve or active Reserve. This is reserve right, probably active too, depending on how much money you need to make where you live. So cash usually isn't it, but there's. You know, the private sector always gives discounts. There's, um, you know, a lot of those different. If you're able to go and do the retirement levels, you can do stuff like that.
Heredes:Those, those are good things did they pay for the education? How did that? How does that work um?
Jeff Sullivan:They can. There's different variations on that. They don't typically as a chaplain. They don't pay your education because you can't become one until you have your MDiv. That means you've already paid for it. So now, if you were doing a degree after there's some things Gotcha, you also like you're eligible to pass on. You also like, uh, you're eligible to pass on, like, so if you did qualify at a certain point for like gi bill or stuff like that, you could pass it on to another family member so you can end up having, like your own son go or your own daughter go, because you didn't need that, because you had already done all the schooling when you entered um.
Jeff Sullivan:So you know there's a lot of little benefits that come along like that. There's also great trainings, like they'll train you on, depending on what you're able for, different things from marriage and family to suicide prevention to leadership development. You can, you know, hospital chaplaincy. So if you get into those programs, those they pay you, they put you on orders, you get paid to get trained and then you come out with actual certifications that you can use to have chaplaincy careers in the VA and other hospital settings. So, depending on what you're looking to do, you can benefit that way. Very cool yeah. Plus you get a cool uniform, I'm assuming.
Jeff Sullivan:It's always. It's great to play, dress up and you have something for Halloween. You have something you know, all kinds of good stuff, you know.
Heredes:I love it. Yeah, I love it, jeff. Thank you so much for sharing. We'll put some links out here on tools and opportunities for you to look into this If it's something that strikes a chord, if you want to reach out to Jeff and talk to him again, he's doing this out of the willingness and kindness of his heart and his passion to serve others, to serve community, but serving our nation and with the gospel and with care and the way Jesus would do it. So I appreciate you sharing Any final thoughts, any final words before we hand it off to Colin here.
Jeff Sullivan:Yeah, absolutely, I would say, as you notice that I know statistically, we all recognize that the rise of the nuns, the people who aren't going to church, the people who don't believe. What I'm discovering and what you see in real life and what you can see in studies, is it's not that those nuns are against hearing the gospel or hearing about Christ, and so it's just. There's a great opportunity to go outside the church and share the gospel. They're mostly people who are afraid of institutions. They've, whether by experience or by exposure, feel like the church is hypocritical or there's corruption, all those different things. What you realize is when you get into one-on-one conversations, you're really able to break through that. If you have the heart of the gospel and you share what it's about and you share it with a genuineness, there is a great openness in the next generation for an authentic gospel, and so chaplaincy puts you in that space and gives you that opportunity.
Heredes:I love it. I love it. It is missional. It is missional at its best. You don't have to leave the country, even to be intentionally missional. I love it, jeff. Thanks again for what you're doing. Thank you, eric.
Jeff Sullivan:Thank you, you do awesome stuff.
Heredes:I enjoy it, we love it, love partnering and the ministry we get to do together when we serve.