Perspectives That Matter - Adventures in Advising

In episode 81 of the podcast, we chat with Dr. Mya Hines, senior academic advisor in the John Muir College at University of California San Diego. We discuss Mya’s exploratory study of Black undergraduates regarding student success, perspectives influenced by power dynamics in higher education, and recommendations to overcome barriers for students. 

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Transcript

Matt Markin  
Welcome again to another episode of the Adventures in Advising podcast. This is Matt Markin, and on today's episode, I get to chat with someone that I've known since 2016 when we met as scholarship recipients at the then called California Collaborative Conference at the UC Davis campus, and that is with Dr. Mya Hines. Dr. Hines is a recent graduate of Azusa Pacific University's doctoral program in higher education leadership. Her qualitative research led her to explore the perspectives of black undergraduates regarding student success and how those perspectives are influenced by specific power dynamics within higher education. Dr. Hines currently works at the John Muir college at UC San Diego as a senior academic advisor, and considers herself a lifelong learner with a passion for teaching, advancing knowledge and coaching students to achieve their academic and personal goals. Dr. Hines is known Hunter campus as a collaborative partner and change agent, offering innovative next level philosophies and thoughts to intentionally facilitate an environment of creativity and building community. Mya, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Mya Hines  
Thank you so much for having me, Matt.

Matt Markin  
Now you're at UC San Diego, which is now for your campus that's in the La Jolla area?

Dr. Mya Hines  
It is yes.

Matt Markin  
So, I know sometimes when people say San Diego, or if I just tell people San Diego, they think like downtown gas lamp district, or like Seaport Village, Petco Park area.

Dr. Mya Hines  
Yeah, no, this is in the upper echelon San Diego. It is literally maybe minutes from the beach, and a very elite part of the San Diego, City of San Diego.

Matt Markin  
And then you're originally from San Diego.

Dr. Mya Hines  
I am. I was born and raised here, right here in southeast San Diego. I did go away for undergrad. I attended the University of North Carolina in Charlotte, and then I returned after graduation, and I've been here ever since.

Matt Markin  
Well, let's talk about that. Talk about your background, your path into higher ed, and where you're at now.

Dr. Mya Hines  
So that was that's been an interesting journey, to say the least. So when I was in undergrad, I actually had the opportunity to participate in something called the university programming board, and basically that was a student organization that helped to facilitate and decide on how to spend student funds, basically like the student fees that were collected as part of tuition. We decided how a lot of those funds were allocated and distributed. So that was a really fun job because there were music concerts or lectures or just different a bunch of different types of student activities that as students we got to plan. And I thought, oh my gosh, this would be so wonderful if it was an actual job. I would love to work with students doing something like this. I was like, Yeah, well, I don't know what this I don't know how to facilitate or maneuver into, you know, this type of, this type of career. And so I came back home and still tried to focus on the things that I was, that I thought I wanted to pursue. And eventually got to UC San Diego, not working with students, but thinking I could kind of parlay the position that I was getting and eventually try to transfer, get another job. And that was not as easy as I thought it was going to be. So in 2014 I eventually got a chance to serve as the program coordinator for the African American Studies minor program, which has now been rebranded and renamed as the black diaspora African American studies program, and that now has expanded to include a major so I started off with that program. Served as the program coordinator there for about three and a half years, and then after that, I transitioned to the college that I'm in now, which is John Muir college. And I've been here since August, 2018.

Matt Markin  
Well, so just coming up on on an anniversary real soon.

Dr. Mya Hines  
Yeah, yeah, uh huh, August 6, I will why? Why I remember that? I have no idea, but I think I was so excited to come into the college.

Matt Markin  
Well, we're recording this on July 31 so happy almost anniversary. We met at the California Collaborative conference Davis campus. Both of us had applied for, like, the scholarship that they offered, and we got to go to that how did you hear about that conference and what made you decide to to apply for for one of those scholarships?

Dr. Mya Hines  
Well, that's a great question. So that was at a time where I was super, super hungry. So I was a I still considered myself at the time, I guess, a fairly new advisor. I think it was still two years in, but I was looking for something. I was looking for stuff. I was looking for something to stimulate my own learning to help me become a better advisor. And I literally was just on the internet looking for stuff. I was looking for conferences. And I think as part of my master's program, I had done a master's program, completed that in 2014 and there were certain organization, like national organizations, that I ended up finding out about through that master's program. And so I can't exactly remember how I found the collaborative conference. I want to say it might have been in connection with NACADA, but it definitely came out of me just really try to search for something there wasn't a whole lot of support on campus, so that made it even more imperative for me like to try to get Something that was going to help me do my job better and become a better advisor.

Matt Markin  
Sometimes we just stumble upon it. So kind of like you're saying you were just on the internet looking for things, and ultimately found and then look where you're at now. So let's talk about UCSD, so like you're the senior academic advisor in the John Muir College. Can you talk about what exactly? How would you describe the John Muir College, and also, like your your day to day responsibilities? 

Dr. Mya Hines  
So UC San Diego is a fairly unique campus in that it has a total of eight residential colleges. I think the only other UC that has the same structure is UC Santa Cruz, if I'm not mistaken. And what that means is that the residential colleges students are admitted into a specific college. However, any student can have any major at one of the colleges. So all of the colleges have engineering majors, dance majors, political science, computer science. And it also means that the advising structure is a little decentralized, meaning that the college advisors. We provide guidance and support with regard to general education requirements, university requirements, but then the student then has to go to directly to their academic department to also get advising. So it makes it a little hard, because a lot of those things sometimes might overlap, or one might affect the other, and they have to go back and forth between the two areas, and then they decide they want to minor in something that's a whole nother advisor. And so part of what our job is in the college is we serve as the home base, is how a lot of people describe it, home base. Sometimes we're called generalist. What we're really doing is providing students with a clear pathway, or at least a support system as far as how to navigate the university. So they might come to us with a lot of questions that we may not be able to answer however we are the office or we're the unit or department that's going to guide and connect them with the appropriate unit. So they might have a lot of financial aid questions or questions about tutoring, maybe questions about how to go on study abroad. Or as a matter of fact, I got an email this morning from a student asking about, whoa, where do I go? About study abroad? That's definitely not John Muir College, but I can connect, you know, the students to the appropriate units, areas and stuff like that. The day to day kind of stuff we do, what we call kind of walk ins or drop ins. Typically, we will also have appointments scheduled for more lengthy type of questions, whether it might be academic planning or maybe. Student is an academic difficulty, or there might just be some other kind of challenging or quirky situation that leads a little more time than what a walk in can offer like. This summer, we're also onboarding brand new students. We're graduating students and also working on different, you know, just projects in between. I'm, I'm a co supervisor with my colleague, with the peer advisors that we have in our office, and our peer advisors are amazing. So there's a lot to it. And try and such a complex and large university, I think the point, and also the intention of having the residential colleges is to create a smaller community for the students to connect with and be a part of. It's like you have these small liberal arts colleges on campus that they can connect with and be part of, embedded within this larger research university that can seem, you know, a little more intimidating. So, yeah, hopefully that that makes sense. It does a little because they're, when I explain it to people, they're like, wait, what? What do you mean? Like a resident? But each college has a provost, Each college has a dean of academic advising and student affairs. Each college has its own Residential Life. Each college may have like additional leaving learning communities within it. They have their own dining facilities. It is literally a college within the university. 

Matt Markin  
Let's talk about conferences. So you know, we talked about the California Collaborative conference, and we've seen each other since then at other conferences, and then, most recently, at the region eight, 910, conference this past March in Vegas, you also presented there. Can you talk about that? What? What you presented on?

Dr. Mya Hines  
Sure, so May 2022 or, I guess technically September, because that's when I officially finished. But let's say 2022 I completed my dissertation, um, because there was a lot of editing that like needed to be done and that kind of stuff. But so I finished my dissertation, and that was, again, it was focused on how power dynamics influenced how black students perceived their own student success and why their perspective matters, like I and so with that, I thought it was a fascinating topic. I thought it was interesting. I didn't know whether or not other folks would think of it as interesting as I did, and so I guess I thought to explore that, to see if other people would be as interested in the topic as I was, and I wanted to see where it would go. So I submitted a proposal for the Nakata conference and bada boom, Bada bing. It kind of, you know, it was accepted. I presented, and it was an amazing experience. I had also presented at the NASA conference. I think it was like the first generation student success, something or other. I can't remember the exact name of the conference, but it was in Baltimore last year. And what's interesting is that, you know, the NASA is like student affairs facing, and then, of course, Nakata is academic affairs or academic advising facing. And it was a very different experience, very different audience. And it was just interesting to see the interaction, the types of questions that I got. And it was also just really cool to also see that other folks were very interested in the work and in the research that I had completed. I was thinking that, yeah, I don't know folks may or may not be interested, but I feel like it's important enough to share and for this information to get out, whether or not people might be interested in it. You know, that kind of, I just wasn't really sure, and I kind of wanted to see where the interest was, or if there was interest.

Matt Markin  
And you're mentioning that, you know, at both the conferences, you know that from the attendees at both conferences, there was definitely an interest in your presentation, in the topic, but you're mentioning that there was like, kind of differences between, I guess, some of the questions that that were asked, Can you talk about, like, what you kind of felt the differences were?

Dr. Mya Hines  
That's a really good question. So well, I'll say this. I'll say that the the NASPA conference, I received a lot of questions about my research directly. So they had a lot of questions about what further research would look like. Have you, had you thought about doing the research in this way? Or would you think about, you know, adding on or doing something blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, or they had questions about the demographics of the study participants and what their reactions and what they were sharing as part of like the as far as the data that was collected, they had a lot of questions about how the students reacted, as far as their own emotions, experiences and stuff like that. At the Nakata conference, I felt like the questions were more practitioner focused. So it wasn't as focused maybe on the research, but it was focused more on specifics in regards to how their work, their positions, their roles, might be affected by what they're learning in this research. So they had a lot of questions about, well, I'm doing this particular program, and what are your thoughts about X, Y, Z, and so more of the application as the application of the research findings, rather than just the research itself, which I thought was very, very interesting. And I imagine maybe because the my folk, my the focus of my dissertation was not necessarily, I mean it well, I was about to say it wasn't necessarily focused on academic advising. But my research question actually does have academic advising in it. I thought I had that answer, but no, that no, that's, that's not true academic advising. 

Matt Markin  
But I think it's kind of nice that that, you know it's, it's the same presentation, in a sense, but you kind of have to gear it towards that particular audience, and then just to kind of hear the differences in the types of questions. Because definitely, I would say, for this podcast, a lot of the questions are kind of geared towards, like the practitioner as well, which kind of makes sense, if that was also what you were kind of questions were getting from, like an advising type conference. Now, within your dissertation, when I kind of skimmed through it, there was a quote that kind of stuck out to me from you, and it said like that, I personally struggled to think outside of the normative social construction of of student success, and the study helped me pursue a curious question as to whether black undergraduate students had similar thoughts. Can you talk more about like your study and what you what you kind of found out?

Dr. Mya Hines  
So this was a action research. Used an action research methodology also incorporated some elements of participatory action research, which includes the study participants, as far as them being able to make recommendations, do data analysis and all that kind of stuff. And so as I was collecting data, and this is where the this is kind of where it came together, like I have this question like in the back of my mind, like I had the struggle. I wonder if other folks have it too. So that was kind of the question in the back of my mind. But it didn't all really come together until I actually started collecting the data. It's not until I started interviewing the actual students who had similar identities as myself, who were either black, who were either from San Diego, who were they might have been women, Christian, what, like. We just had very similar identities. And so with those similar identities, I heard some very similar experiences that resonated for me even way, way back from my undergrad. And it was interesting to hear them still talk about these same experiences, or even more challenging experiences that I did not have a you know, that I didn't go through. And so for me, it was like, OMG, wait a minute. I even feel like this now as a doctoral student. So that was something that had not really something that I hadn't thought about. I was only thinking. About it in the context of Okay. As an undergraduate student, we might have had similar experiences in that respect, but I was not thinking about okay. I might still be struggling with the idea of what student success means right now as a doctoral student, and a lot of the things that the students shared were very similar to what I was experiencing, whether it was imposter syndrome, whether it was I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this, complete this. I don't know if I'm good enough. Am I really a scholar? Is this really research? Like I had all of these different emotions and different ways of like I had it in my mind. I put it this way. I had in my mind what I thought research was supposed to be and what it was supposed to look like. And it was very enlightening that my dissertation chair shout out to Dr Tabitha Jones jollivet at Azusa Pacific University. She was amazing, but shout out to her for kind of helping me realize that I get to decide what my research is, this was and that being based on my own biases and how the world is formulated in my mind, the experiences that I've had, the identities that I have, and how that shapes what my experiences in the world all played into how I analyze the data, the type of data that I wanted to collect, the the the overall research design, how I decided to design the research all played a part in all of these different things. Hence, the power dynamics, right? So it was very interesting for me to see also how power dynamics were influenced by how I was, how I thought about research, how I thought whether or not I was going to be successful in this, and then how and when I would actually feel like I was a scholar or a researcher. Hopefully that that answered your question.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, it definitely does. And you had also mentioned in there about covid 19 and how the covid 19 global pandemic opened, kind of the doors for higher education institutions, and you had put to illuminate and face the horror that is anti anti blackness in a way that had never been explored previously. Can you talk more about that?

Dr. Mya Hines  
Sure, so. I mean, as I would say, most folks probably are aware, in spring 20, that was May 2020. There was a horrific murder of George Floyd, and that kind of set things off. And in addition to this global pandemic that had changed the way in which higher education was delivering and offering courses, it also illuminated the disparity and the the lack of equity in how higher education was delivering their services the smallest things, or the things that folks did not necessarily think about, as far as Wi Fi Students have an access to laptops or computers, or having access to just a quiet space to take classes or to do their homework, and being in a in a situation where you I mean, most students didn't necessarily have control over the space that they were in, and so trying to figure out what that stuff or how to help students navigate that it was. I mean, I don't need, I don't know any other way to describe it, except for it was a nightmare. It was an absolute nightmare. And part of that too. It was like the institutions were trying to figure out how to offer and be empathetic about what the students were going through, and then at the same time still wanting to protect like, like, protect the institution from from getting played. I guess is the best way that I can, I can think about it, because there it's like the institution had in the back of their mind. Well, somebody might be lying, so we gotta get from the students. Okay, well, you're gonna have to protect. Ish this, or you're going to have to prove this, and I don't know, it just it just made it for a very it just considering what, especially what black students might have been experiencing and going through at the time. It just seemed a little overwhelming and a little it was, yeah, it was just hard to navigate.

Matt Markin  
Yeah. Now you mentioned also, like in your like, within your dissertation, some of your findings was, one of them was that the power of anti blackness as a barrier to achieving student success and student success, I guess to me, is a very broad definition, depending on who you ask, from the institution level to the student to like, let's say, an advisor or faculty. It could mean any number of things. And also, you have institutions that have devoted resources for quote, unquote, student success. What are we missing here?

Dr. Mya Hines  
That's a good question. And for me, what we're missing is the student perspective, very, very easily. And I think that was intentional and on purpose student, I guess I now have a way in my mind that I've started to think about student success from the perspective of now, instead of it just being instead of it just being student success, I look at institutional success so that being the things that that the institution will measure, measure the students by to determine how well of an institution they are, whether it be graduation rates, persistence, retention, any of those things, while they are measuring the student by that stuff or by those metrics. That puts a feather in the institution's cap, right? While I'm assuming students want to graduate and they want to stay and persist, but that's really the institutions thing. And then I also think about academic success. So all of the things that might that is all of the things like within the classroom that might feel like successful them getting good grades on a test or GPA, or that those kinds of things just academic success. But then you also have the ways in which the student might perceive themselves. There were some of the findings or the probably the most prevalent. And the thing that came across through the data collection was black students want to see and connect with black professors. They want to connect with black faculty, and the highlight, or the illumination of how much that impacts them as as far as number one, them being able to see themselves in the professors. Them being able to, well, wow, if this, if this black professor, can be a professor here. Gosh, I should. I can do what I want to do. I might even be able to be a professor. They started to see themselves and really engage and think about, oh man, this is, this is something that I can do, or it was just exciting, because there are so few black students and black faculty here at UC San Diego. And that was an amazing finding, because initially I would, I came into this research, I came into my doctoral program thinking, yeah, academic advising is essential, and we are, you know, this awesome resource and provide support and guidance, which we Do, but it doesn't necessarily, it's not necessarily essential. What's essential for students is them building relationships with their professors, with other students, especially other students who look like them, because that's the way that they gain support and have a sense of belonging. So yeah, I hopefully that I don't want to, I don't want to go too long, because I could probably talk about that for a long, long time.

Matt Markin  
No, no, I appreciate it, and I really like your point in your paper that you wrote, and that was that black undergraduate students are very capable of defining and achieving student success on their terms, based off their ideas and philosophies, and instead of the university telling the student what student success is. Maybe the student should be telling the university what their success looks like. Yeah, and imagine

Dr. Mya Hines  
if it if we flipped it and utilize and really have the use that counter narrative to inform how the. Institution provides support and guidance to the student. I mean, imagine that like if the student can say, well, I define student success XYZ, and the institution says, Okay, well, we can. We can work with this, and this is how we are going to support the way it's done now it's one size fits all your student success. We've identified you as needing us, and here are the resources that we've identified that you need, regardless and regardless of what their needs might be. Individually, it's been decided collectively that first generation students, socio low socioeconomic status, students, students of color, they need these certain things based on research and based on data collected and all that good stuff, however, the student perspective and how student success is defined, still should matter, and it still should help inform how institutions provide support to students. And I think that, I guess, was the one of the points that I wanted to make in that research. 

Matt Markin  
And you had some great recommendations, and one of them was to integrate families in the students, student experience other academic journey. So if, if you had like your way, and someone said, Dr. Hines, tell me how, what? What would you envision that that? What would that look like?

Dr. Mya Hines  
Oh, no, really good question. I wondered, like, if there were, and this is what's hard, because families work, they have other responsibilities. They have things that they need to do in order to support their student that's attending, you know this institution, or you know institutions across the nation there, you know students are coming from all over, right? And so typically, what will happen is, and I would say this is out of convenience, but what will happen is, at orientation, there'll be a family oriented activity, or a family oriented orientation, where parents and families can come and find out about the institution, what the student is going to be experiencing, and how they're going to navigate and all that stuff, and then they might have a Family Weekend, where students can come and experience and see where their student is attending school, and then that's the extent of what that kind of looks like. But trying to find what So, for example, because of FERPA, right, we can't discuss things like with parents and stuff like that. Well, certain topics or certain details or certain data we can't discuss, like with with parents and families. But if there was a way that we could get the parents or families involved in the decision making process and have them become a part of the decision making process. So, because it's, it's so separate when a when a parent does come in, I think the parent thinks that they have to, they really have to advocate and be that force for their student, whether, whether the student wants it, but they're, you know, they're there, right? And they you as a parent, you want to advocate for your child, and you want them to understand. But what if we made it easier for the parents to be able to connect with the institution and advocate for their student? What if it didn't even have to be advocacy? What if it was a partnership? What if it was, you know, like, I don't know, like, it just seems like there could be a better way that we engage with the students families, especially since the students feel like or black students anyway, they reported that they felt when they made decisions about which institution they were going to go to, when they made decisions about which major that they were going to choose, they consulted their families. They were talking with their families about, you know, what was going to be, you know the best option and what's closer, and I need to be able to connect and be with or get back to my family if I needed to, when things like that. So if we were able to connect or help the family stay connected to their student throughout the year and not just on orientation or a family weekend, I think that. Also be another way to think about student success, and how much that might help the student feel successful in their collegiate journey.

Matt Markin  
Oh, yeah, I 100% agree with that. I mean, especially too when you think of those institutions that do have a like parent and family orientation day. Sometimes it's the same timeframe as when the students are there, but then not all parents and family members get to actually go to that, you know? And so what happens after that? It kind of just ends right there, and it's like, well, if you got to go, awesome, hopefully you got something out of it, yeah. Hopefully this is how they could actually incorporate and continue on, because the student's going to be here, hopefully for those four or five, maybe six years, depending on how long it takes. Yeah. So having that support, especially from parents and family that are, like, I want to support, but I don't know how to do that.

Dr. Mya Hines  
So being able to provide that guidance, maybe even to parents and families, and wanting to, I guess, getting a better, especially with a complex university like UC San Diego, I think that would be really helpful for if there was some kind of way that parents could understand, okay, this is how this particular institution or university works, and then them being able to provide support and guidance to their student as they're engaging because they're, I mean, it's, you know, if they're a first generation student, or if the parent or family member is not familiar, maybe with UC San Diego or infrastructure or whatever they might try or want to provide guidance, but because they're not familiar, the guidance or support may or may not be helpful, because they don't necessarily they're not tuned in and are not clued in, but if they were, they might be able to even provide better support. And while we're able, I mean, as practitioners, we're able to provide support, but we don't also, we also don't necessarily know the student as well as the family member, so I don't know, just getting it from all sides to me would be the better option. We could still provide the support and and in that respect, but also getting it from their parents and family members. I hear a lot like there's sometimes students will have pressure, maybe from their siblings to declare a minor or to participate in a particular major for whatever reason. And that pressure comes from somewhere, and it's there for a reason, but maybe if that family member, or if that parent, understood and knew what the campus culture was and why it was so stressful for this student, it might open up a different type of conversation for that student, whether or not they wanted to switch or change or whatever, but it might just open up a different conversation to be had, because I think it's hard for students to explain or talk about the type of pressures and challenges that they experience with certain majors or in certain situations when someone isn't clued in, or they don't necessarily have the experience of what the infrastructure is like. So I think it can open up so many more opportunities to help the student in their own ideas of what student success means to them.

Matt Markin  
Absolutely. And if we talk about maybe now with academic advisors being able to help students, you had mentioned that one of the recommendations is, you know, you had mentioned black students being in what you call survival mode, and then also having a pro black academic advising model. So how can academic advisors help help students and do better with that?

Dr. Mya Hines  
That's a great question. So one of the projects that I'm working on now is just that we're trying to figure it out, and especially based on the academic advising model that we have at UC San Diego isn't necessarily conducive to the Student Success of black students here. I mean, that's just I mean, it's unfortunate, but it's also true. And so what we are trying to do is think about ways that we can not just provide guidance and support, but really just reimagine academic advising on campus. So for example, John Muir College, we. Have instituted like caseloads, most institutions already have case loads, but we actually do not. And so what we were thinking was if there were a set of students that we could connect with, build rapport and relationships with then that could also help produce or help students feel that. Number one, they have someone in the college that they can connect with, that they can talk to, ask questions, get information from. But then two, it also is a it does provide support and guidance and stuff like that. So that's one thing that we've started in my college. And it it has its its good stuff, and it also has its challenges, but we also have this long term idea about just what can we do as an institution to really reimagine academic advising, and that's gonna that's there are band aids that we can put in place and Try to take care of things in the process of trying to change the campus culture, because that's essentially what will need to happen, is changing the campus culture and rethinking number one, not just what student success looks like, but really incorporating and using student success, students perspectives on student success, and using that to inform how we how we move, how we cultivate relationships, how we might engage with students, and that being meaningful and intentional and not just okay. Well, based on this research, this is what it did, you know, because that that can be so blah, like it could just feel so not genuine and not authentic at all.

Matt Markin  
And since we're running out of time, last question I have for you is in your dedication and your dissertation, you mentioned your parents, and you mentioned that your father kind of taught you the power of education, and your mother helped you to attain and create knowledge. Talk to me about your parents. 

Dr. Mya Hines  
My goodness, you are going to you wait till the last, hopefully Maya does not start crying, but my parents were always supportive, even when they didn't know how to be or know exactly what I needed. So neither one of I'm also first generation. Neither of my parents went to attained a four year degree. My dad worked at the post office. My mom worked at a a place that made a company that made infusion pumps, you know, in hospitals. So, yeah, like they were just so I think they saw and understood how much I enjoyed learning, and they just wanted to help facilitate that however they understood or what that might look like. So they supported me and going, you know, to college, they were very my dad was always just like, Well, no, you don't get a job. You are just gonna focus on your studies. And my mom is like, get the balance. Have the work life. Balance. Work hard, play hard, you know. So it was interesting. Their two philosophies, but they both, they both have shared that they were proud of me, that that I don't know it is, yeah, I'm trying to keep it short because start crying so but yeah, they, they've always been supportive and just very intentional. 

Matt Markin  
I appreciate your answers to all of this and this interview, and you know, all your experience, the research that, that you've done, your dissertation, all the recommendations, working with students so Dr. Mya Hines, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

Dr. Mya Hines  
This was amazing. Thank you for thank you for inviting me and having me, Matt. This was absolutely awesome. I so enjoyed it. This was great.

Matt Markin  
And then, of course, we'll see you at the next conference, whichever one that that might end up being, but I know we'll see each other soon.

Dr. Mya Hines  
Absolutely, absolutely. It's been a pleasure, honor.