E164: Navigating the Gray Zone- Pain Meds, Surgery, and Recovery

In this candid episode, We delve into the often overlooked challenges faced by individuals in recovery when confronted with medical issues and surgeries. Steve shares his recent experience with hernia surgery and the unexpected pain that followed. The conversation explores the gray area surrounding pain medication in recovery, acknowledging the real struggles some may face. The hosts discuss strategies for safely managing prescribed pain meds, emphasizing the importance of open communication with healthcare professionals. Join them as they share personal stories, reflections, and insights on balancing health, sobriety, and the potential pitfalls in the recovery journey. Whether you're in recovery or supporting someone who is, this episode offers valuable perspectives on navigating a crucial aspect of the healing process.

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Transcript

Matt: 0:24

Just because we're in recovery, Steve, doesn't mean that we're not faced with medical issues that could show up in our recovery. Doesn't mean surgeries doesn't don't go away. Doesn't mean injuries and stuff. And sometimes medicine intervenes and we might be faced with the option of pain pills. You mentioned that you're about to have some surgery, which you talked about at your meeting. Tell me more about this.

Steve: 0:57

Actually, I had my surgery. I had my surgery on Tuesday.

Matt: 0:59

Oh, you did okay.

Steve: 1:00

Yeah,

Matt: 1:00

I

Steve: 1:00

I

Matt: 1:00

thought it was

Steve: 1:01

had

Matt: 1:01

coming up.

Steve: 1:01

no, I had my surgery Tuesday. I had a hernia surgery, for a herniated naval. And anyway, so I had it. And when I first thought about getting this has been an ongoing thing, my, my general, my general doctor, my GP has been saying it does bother you. And I'm like, No, no, no. So finally we decided to have it done and I thought it would be somewhat kind of simple, but it wasn't this full surgery, full anesthesia.

Matt: 1:29

Mm hmm.

Steve: 1:30

And so I was sent home Tuesday and I'll tell you something, I've had rotator cuff surgery, which was one thing. Nothing was as painful as this.

Matt: 1:42

Wow.

Steve: 1:43

So what they did was they sent me home with pain meds. Right. And I've had different pain meds, but they sent me home with boxes. Right. And just, you know, I don't want to trigger anybody because that's not my drug of choice. And I always laugh at that because I know it could be, but it's just never was. It was never something I was very interested in. And the sort of that whole craze came along after I got sober, but. So I don't really fear that. But I know that's a problem for some people. I was talking to somebody today before the you know, before we were recording this, who that would be a problem for her. And we talked about how that would be a problem. And we talked about some of the strategies you can do. I know that when I first got sober that when I had my, my surgery shoulder about four years ago, you know, at that point I was a little worried about it cause who need these pain meds? Probably a little bit longer. And what I did was I just sort of handed them to my wife, right. And let her

Matt: 2:43

Hey,

Steve: 2:43

dispense them to me. I took it out, just took it out of my control. But it is something that we have to think about. Right. I mean, like I said, I know people who say, well, I won't take pain. I'm just telling you something. You could say you won't take pain medication and people can do it. But I got to tell you something. Tuesday when I got home, I mean, this was, you know, they did surgery and they sent me home. yeah, I don't think. I guess I could have survived it without it Tuesday and Wednesday. But man, it was it was really, really tough. Those were two really tough days. And and I needed them. And, you know, I, I took them as prescribed

Matt: 3:20

uh,

Steve: 3:20

and they pretty much told me it would be for a couple of days. You know, you know, these days you don't get a bunch

Matt: 3:25

no.

Steve: 3:26

of them. They

Matt: 3:27

No.

Steve: 3:27

sent me home with basically seven doses, right. 14 pills of oxy, tens, if you will, and you take two out of the two every 6 hours. and I haven't even finished them at this point, right. Because I don't, I don't need them by now. And I've gotten, I've gotten much better very much quicker than I thought. But it's a real issue and it's something that we all have to pay attention to.

Matt: 3:51

Those pain pills were something I really loved. I didn't get hooked on that. Well, let me put it this way. I could have gotten hooked on them, but I was too afraid of how I was going to get more. And they did make me nauseous. But I love

Steve: 4:04

Yeah,

Matt: 4:04

the feeling of pain medication. I'm trying

Steve: 4:07

Yeah,

Matt: 4:08

to look up here. The woman who watches our kids, she was our nanny. And it was bad. She had multiple hernias that she was done as bad as what you're saying happened

Steve: 4:19

Yeah,

Matt: 4:19

to you. It was a lot more. Yeah. I'm not seeing the list of things that she was on, but she was on a heavy pain medication and something else. Like,

Steve: 4:28

yeah.

Matt: 4:29

they mixed multiple ones, and she looked

Steve: 4:31

Well,

Matt: 4:31

and

Steve: 4:31

they will,

Matt: 4:31

saw what the effects were, and she stopped a cold turkey, which I look down like. Well, you're clearly you clearly don't have a problem if you're stopping those

Steve: 4:40

right?

Matt: 4:41

cold turkey and handling the issues. But it's an issue and I look at this is really very grey in the AA world. Some people don't like to be in the grey area.

Steve: 4:55

Right.

Matt: 4:56

Oh, you can't take that. You're in recovery. Well, if you have a really bad surgery, what the hell are you going to do? There's only so much naproxen sodium you can take or ibuprofen, and sometimes you do need a little something to get through.

Steve: 5:12

Yeah. Listen, I'm of the I'm of the opinion that if you, you can take anything you want under doctor's

Matt: 5:22

Yes.

Steve: 5:22

orders, as long as you're taking them as prescribed. Right. I don't. And that's just me. Right. That's my opinion. I just think if you get a medication and it's prescribed by a doctor who knows you have an issue, you're you may have an issue. My doctor does. Right. we can you could talk about it with your doctor, and you need a strategy. So,

Matt: 5:43

Yeah.

Steve: 5:43

you know, it was prescribed to me. It was two pills every 6 hours, and that's what I took. And then they also actually they also prescribed me, you know, and it's always where they prescribed me 500 milligram tablets of Tylenol, which you can buy over the counter. And now so it was alternating. You know, you take the boxes and then you take the Tylenol. And and I needed to do that for a first for me. I needed to do that for the first, like not quite 48 hours. But, you know, I took them as prescribed. And like I said, I didn't I haven't even used them all. Like I still got two left or something like that. So, you know, and that tells me I don't need a problem. And I'm not thinking, Oh, I should take these because they'll make me feel better. Um, I don't need them, you know. So,

Matt: 6:32

I didn't use more when I had knee surgery or when I busted out my ribs and they gave me Vicodin. But I looked forward to it. And

Steve: 6:43

yeah.

Matt: 6:43

then after, when I had some left over before I quit drinking, I would go grab some if I

Steve: 6:50

Oh,

Matt: 6:50

was in a

Steve: 6:50

yeah,

Matt: 6:50

bad place. So I was definitely abusing

Steve: 6:52

Yeah,

Matt: 6:52

them at a later level. I wasn't doing it all

Steve: 6:55

yeah.

Matt: 6:55

the time,

Steve: 6:56

Right.

Matt: 6:56

but man, I love the feeling of pain medication.

Steve: 7:00

Yeah, yeah. I'll tell you something. If I was drinking, this is the whole point. I say, Oh, it's not a problem for me. It's not a problem for me because I'm in a program. I have a program, and I'm working the program. Okay. But I will tell you this. If I was drinking and had this surgery, there is no question number one, I would have been I'm not sure they would have done it, but there is no question that I would have been looking forward to taking these like, oh, let me have a let me have a couple of drinks plus

Matt: 7:25

Yes.

Steve: 7:25

take the pain meds. Right. Like really get the feeling like there is no question that I would be doing that. Um, because I have always liked how things make me feel. So but you know, again, I'm, I'm in a program, I work a decent program. you know, I knew when I got this, I was like this from when I left the house hospital. I had the surgery Tuesday, early morning. And when I got out of when I got out of surgery is sitting there and the nurse came over and got me situated in a chair. And she said to me like, you know, what's your pain level? And I'm like, you know, she goes 0 to 10. And I listen, I was barely, you know, awake. And I'm like, it's an eight at least.

Matt: 8:07

Yep.

Steve: 8:07

Right? And and she went right over and she's like, all right. And she brought me a couple of pills and and they worked like within an hour, you know, I was like, okay, that pain's down. And by the time I left, she said, What's your pain now? I'm like, maybe a four, you know? And so that right there just told me, like the pills did what they were supposed to

Matt: 8:27

Yep.

Steve: 8:27

do. Like there was no buzz of like they went right to the pain and they managed the pain for me and that's why I knew. So we were able to do it at home, you know, And I knew at that point I just lo I got home. I didn't move much on Tuesday, got into a chair in our den and, you know, and then my wife would just bring me these. And that's where I stayed for the next 24 plus hours, maybe 36 hours, just not even eating much, just getting up to the bathroom. If I needed to. But it's it's a tricky situation.

Matt: 9:00

Absolutely.

Steve: 9:01

And if you're you know, if your sobriety is not in a good place, it is very it can be very, very problematic. And again, it's one of these mentally problematic

Matt: 9:12

Mm

Steve: 9:12

things,

Matt: 9:12

hmm.

Steve: 9:12

maybe more than physically, you know, cause what might happen in something like this is that you start thinking like, all these things are going to make me feel better,

Matt: 9:29

Yeah.

Steve: 9:29

not feel better physically.

Matt: 9:31

Yep.

Steve: 9:31

Right? Then maybe they will. But I feel like, Oh yeah, I'm going to feel happy. I'm going to feel like my problems are going to go away, like that kind of stuff. And again, you know, if you're drinking, um, you know, all things are off. And I've always said that, you know, I've shared what, like if I was never a big drug person, but it's one of the reasons why I don't try to I don't even think about doing anything else because that any mind altering subject substance will lead me back to alcohol.

Matt: 10:03

Mm hmm.

Steve: 10:04

All right? It'll lead me back to alcohol. I know that for sure. So eventually I would just end up drinking, which is really where my problem is, because it's so accessible to me. Because you're right, little bit harder to get some of the stuff. And, and nowadays, like, I'm so happy I'm not in this where all the other stuff out there, all the fentanyl out there, you don't know what you're

Matt: 10:26

Absolutely.

Steve: 10:26

buying it like you, you can end up dead in 2 seconds.

Matt: 10:30

Yeah. Absolutely. There's somebody whose birthday's coming up on my Facebook feed who died of an overdose, and it was one of these things where he got into a bad fight with his wife, went out, got some, got some opiates. It was laced with something, and he's dead just like that. So that's a that's an awfully bad thing. I think the key here is if you're in one of our one of our buddies, Vinny was on pain medication. I remember this was

Steve: 11:03

Mm.

Matt: 11:03

like probably eight or nine years ago and didn't want to take

Steve: 11:06

Right.

Matt: 11:06

it. And his plan was called the sponsor and asked them, what should I do? And the sponsor asked some questions around, Why are you taking it? What did the doctor say? What's the purpose? How long are

Steve: 11:19

Yeah.

Matt: 11:19

you supposed to be on it? And it's like, okay, if the doctor gave it to you, then what you need to do is you need to use it as directed. And no more.

Steve: 11:29

Right.

Matt: 11:30

And I think that for me,

Steve: 11:31

Yeah.

Matt: 11:32

I probably speak for a lot of other people that we have a hair trigger. I have this in my breaking my sobriety. Am I doing something wrong? Am I going to end up back in addiction again? Because we don't want to go back there. And I think there's something to be said. This is a gray area of a doctor is giving it to you. But I think it's also important to have a plan.

Steve: 11:55

You know, Vinny is a great example of that because, you know, we both knew Vinny for a long time. He's now 11, living the good life, going between Florida and Cape Cod, depending on the weather and but Vinny had some problems with, with meds

Matt: 12:12

Yep.

Steve: 12:12

like that. You know that that was an issue for him. So that was a very big problem for him, you know, And he handled it by doing the right thing,

Matt: 12:21

Okay.

Steve: 12:21

making sure that he talked about it, got some advice and, you know, then handled it appropriately. Appropriately so. And I think that's all we can all do. You know, I don't have this problem. I really have this weird thing, like I don't have a problem about like, oh, I'm going to mess up my sobriety like, like date wise, like, oh, am I going to lose my sobriety date? I mean, that's what I hear what a lot of people say. That doesn't bother me at all. Like, I don't I don't worry about losing my sobriety date because I've said that here before. I'm not a big one. On anniversaries, really important shows that the program work and all. But it's really about, you know, the quality of my problem, my program rather than the the quantity of my program. So I don't worry much about that. But I do worry about the slippery slope.

Matt: 13:10

Yep.

Steve: 13:10

I do worry about that whole thing that makes me feel good that, you know, I mean, I did that for a long time, right? I mean, I drank for a long time. And and even when I stopped, when I came back, I was like that problem was still there. I drank because of how it made me feel. Or to put it more bluntly, how it made me not feel right. I mean, that's what it was. How how I didn't feel all the bad stuff. And that's the kind of stuff that I get really worried about is that I can slip down that slope very easily. I can take it now. I could start making some excuses. All the pain is too much, right? I start doing that stuff

Matt: 13:51

Yes.

Steve: 13:51

that that lying, that whole thing. You know, today I don't have to do that. So today when I wake up and my wife says, you know, how are you feeling? I can tell her, you know, I actually feel pretty good, you know, some discomfort, trust me, like this, the the surgical site. I know I had surgery, but it's I'll tell you what it feels like today because there's a couple places that are a little bit poorly I my abdomen, but it feels like maybe I did a really tough ab workout

Matt: 14:22

Okay.

Steve: 14:23

right in a new a new one. Like if you ever like never you haven't done abs in six months or two years and then you start working on your abs how much they hurt

Matt: 14:31

Yeah.

Steve: 14:32

right after they done. That's what this feels like, you know, right now. So it's not a feeling that I'm not used to, but I also know I don't I don't need to do anything about it. Like, you know. Yes, I started I started Thursday. Bear walk the dog on the street. Right. That's two days after my surgery. And today I'll probably take her for a bigger walk on the street. Right. I took it easy today. I feel really good at the sun. Sun shining today. First time in a long time for us. So I think I'll get out there and do some work, do some walking, I mean, and and it's really is. I mean, I just try to keep it all in perspective. I mean, people were asking me, checking in, Hey, how you doing? And I, you know. Yeah, buddy. Jeff was, you know, text me and I'm like, man, I feel like crap.

Matt: 15:19

They.

Steve: 15:20

But but I was able to say, I know this too shall pass. Right?

Matt: 15:25

Yeah.

Steve: 15:25

One of

Matt: 15:26

Limited

Steve: 15:26

those saying,

Matt: 15:26

time.

Steve: 15:26

like, right. And I actually much quicker than I thought I said bye bye 48 hours. I was feeling much better, you know, So and I, you know, I think they know that they have a history. That's why they only send that's why they send you home with just a few of these pills

Matt: 15:42

Mm hmm.

Steve: 15:42

just to get you through those first few hours.

Matt: 15:45

I think there's other areas here where there is no the gray areas. I have two issues that a controlled substance might be beneficial. Two of them ADHD and restless leg syndrome. If you have restless legs, you know what I'm talking about. If you don't, it's the most difficult thing to describe to somebody of what it is like. But it is. It is an awful feeling and it interrupts your sleep. And there are controlled substances for that. So I take he's trying gabapentin with me, which the gabapentin seems to be working. It's not something that gets me high or anything, and I think it's an anti-seizure medication. I think some people use it for pain. But I will tell you, I don't go and crave the gabapentin. I take what I take at the end of the night and it does help me get the sleep. And it is doing some work to get that kicking down so I can sleep. If I were to stop taking Gabapentin, I think I would be in a world of hurt. But I take that I take anti-anxiety medication. He's got me on Effexor for ADHD, which has some benefit. I don't know how well it's working, but the medication for ADHD is are stimulants. I

Steve: 17:08

Mm

Matt: 17:08

told my

Steve: 17:09

hmm.

Matt: 17:09

wife about Adderall and I said, basically, it's a pharmaceutical grade speed. That's

Steve: 17:15

Right.

Matt: 17:15

what it is. And I have heard of people who take it off brand and said it's like everything stops. And it is such a feeling and my doctor does not want to give that to me. I

Steve: 17:29

Mm mm

Matt: 17:30

haven't asked for it, but he really doesn't want to give that to me.

Steve: 17:34

mm

Matt: 17:35

And the other thing, because I go through, read it and look at some of these things, and my boss has also told me of another medication that could help with these two things, and that's cannabis. In the state of Connecticut, cannabis is legal. I was hopeful that you could get like some medical grade CBD, which does not cause you to get high, but they don't. You got to get a prescription for that. And at that point I could probably just get some good elsewhere. But cannabis is one of those things. I never liked cannabis. It made me paranoid. It never was my thing. Never, ever, ever, ever, never enjoyed it. But I did ask my doctor about like, what are your thoughts on cannabis? And he looked horrified that I brought it up. He's one of these guys

Steve: 18:21

hmm.

Matt: 18:21

that the cannabis is no good. I don't understand it, which I don't know about that, but I'm not I'm not in that place where I'm going to go and pick up some gummies at the dispensary in town. But if I was in a place where there was nothing else, maybe I make a plan for that of

Steve: 18:41

Mm mm

Matt: 18:41

how

Steve: 18:42

mm.

Matt: 18:42

that would

Steve: 18:42

Mm

Matt: 18:42

work.

Steve: 18:42

hmm. Yeah. That is one of those things that's interesting, cause just before I had the surgery, I also had my annual physical, and, you know, my doctor was going through all the stuff, and he asked me about it, and he's like, you know, they me if I drank, which he knows it, I But he kind of asked the question, so I say no. And he goes, Are you using cannabis like everybody else in this world?

Matt: 19:05

Ha

Steve: 19:05

Is the way

Matt: 19:06

ha

Steve: 19:06

he put

Matt: 19:06

ha.

Steve: 19:06

it right? And I'm like, No. And here's what I told him. Like, no. I said, I probably would if I could, but I can't right now. So I told probably what if I could? And cannabis is another one of those things, right? I was all for the legalization

Matt: 19:20

Me too.

Steve: 19:20

of it because I do think because I do think there are some, especially on the medical side, my wife took it for a while in medical psych. She has really bad arthritis and at first she thought it helped her and then she thought she stopped because it wasn't helping her. At least she says it wasn't helping her. But you can't take that in doses where you're not getting high, right? I mean,

Matt: 19:42

Yes,

Steve: 19:42

there is that, you know, those I want to say micro doses, which is mostly associated with like LSD stuff, but you can do a much smaller dose again. Would I do that? No, no, it would be a last resort.

Matt: 19:55

it

Steve: 19:55

But

Matt: 19:55

would

Steve: 19:55

I

Matt: 19:55

be

Steve: 19:55

would

Matt: 19:55

a last

Steve: 19:55

tell

Matt: 19:55

resort

Steve: 19:55

you this.

Matt: 19:56

for me.

Steve: 19:56

Right. But this is this is how I feel. Again, this is my opinion. What I think at this point will work for me if I had a condition that I thought I needed that right, if I was on chemo and I had no appetite and they told me, like, you nearly need to eat, or you just going to die and maybe you should try some cannabis to help you, you know, do your appetite. Like I may try it then. Right. And it could be prescribed in Connecticut, we also have medical

Matt: 20:24

Yes.

Steve: 20:24

marijuana, Right. Which can be prescribed. And if you want to know what the you know, the only difference between those two is that if you have medical marijuana, you don't pay the tax

Matt: 20:33

Yep.

Steve: 20:33

on it. All right. That's what that's what is, you know, does is tax really high. The the you know, the regular use stuff and the medical stuff. You don't pay that tax on it. It's all the same marijuana. And so but I would I would be willing to try that again. Would I be nervous? Yeah, I would. I would. I claim again, this is me What? I claim that if I took this for a really medical reason that was prescribed by a doctor, would I have to claim But I have to think that I'd have to reset my sobriety date Me No, I wouldn't. I don't feel that way. I'd be taking it for a reason if I started using it like, Hey, we're going out Friday night, I want to get a buzz. And I started using

Matt: 21:16

That's

Steve: 21:16

it then

Matt: 21:16

a different

Steve: 21:16

that's

Matt: 21:17

story.

Steve: 21:17

a different story.

Matt: 21:18

But

Steve: 21:18

But if I'm using it for a reason, no, I wouldn't. I don't feel I would have to.

Matt: 21:24

I looked at it this way. I did a lot of research on it. I wasn't looking to take cannabis because I don't like the feeling, but I did some research on it and looking around with the effects here, I mean, there is a risk of really augmenting the dopamine in my brain, which is why I don't take re-equip anymore. Re-equip really killed the restless legs stuff, but it also made me feel like my whole body was on fire. And that was because I was mixing two agents that boosted dopamine. And that's something that cannabis does. That dopamine increase is also not a good thing, and I don't want that feeling. So I looked at it like, okay, what I'm doing now is a better option, and under no circumstances that I feel, Oh, I'm really disappointed. I wanted to get on cannabis. It's like, no, I'm outlining this as a type of medication. I looked at what cannabis can do. I looked at the other medications and said, I think these would interact. Let's try something else. And that was it. Okay, I'm good because I didn't want to get high from that stuff, basically, because that was not my drug of choice. I never liked it.

Steve: 22:38

Right.

Matt: 22:40

So

Steve: 22:40

And

Matt: 22:40

that was an easy one for me because I

Steve: 22:41

you

Matt: 22:41

never liked it.

Steve: 22:42

know, Yeah. And that's something that, you know, and that's the difference between me. It's interesting we're talking about because when I was younger, I loved it, right? I was different. I loved it. I got a phone call from a a foreign guy in the program who I haven't talked to in years. And just out of the blue, my phone rang. And it was interesting because I don't pick up phone numbers that I don't know.

Matt: 23:08

Me neither.

Steve: 23:09

And I looked at this one and something for some reason I picked up this phone call and it was just this guy I knew and he says, Hey, Steve, it's Neil. And you know, we get talking and he tells me he's been on this cannabis maintenance program for the last time. And when I saw him last. And. He was doing it, he was struggling with that too.

Matt: 23:32

Mm hmm.

Steve: 23:32

And apparently he goes, you know, I realized that I use cannabis just like I use alcohol. And I said, That's my problem.

Matt: 23:38

Yep.

Steve: 23:38

Like, I was I was never like, you know, when I when I finally had that problem with alcohol, I never said, let's go out and have a couple of beers. So I get a little buzz. I was always like, I drank to excess. Same thing. Like I was never let's take a couple of puffs of a joint of, you know, pot or whatever and just get a little buzz on. Nope. I was like, Let's smoke the whole thing until I can't walk anymore. Right? And that's the way I

Matt: 24:03

Yeah.

Steve: 24:03

was. So like, yeah, there was no middle ground for me. So there was nothing in my brain that tells me I can safely smoke cannabis, right? There's nothing in my like, I know that I can't. It's been I was in my twenties when I stopped, right? I was in my twenties when I stopped smoking that. So, you know, that's 40 years for me. Probably not. Not quite, but probably pretty close to 40 years. And I'm pretty sure that if I picked up and tried it, man, I'd just want to go right back to that 20 year old.

Matt: 24:37

Oh,

Steve: 24:37

Yeah,

Matt: 24:37

yeah.

Steve: 24:38

that's what it would take me back. It would take me back to that 20 year old. And the 20 year old also used to love to drink tequila. So I'd be back there in a flash.

Matt: 24:47

Yep,

Steve: 24:47

And and that to me is just it would ruin my whole life. So I'm going to be careful with all that stuff.

Matt: 24:54

yep.

Steve: 24:55

And there was a time I remember when they had this whole lead up to cannabis being legal in Connecticut. Like I shared about it a lot at meeting like this is weighing on my head, man. It's like, you know, sometimes telling me like, Hey, maybe this is an

Matt: 25:08

They're

Steve: 25:08

option, right? It

Matt: 25:09

everywhere.

Steve: 25:09

was like,

Matt: 25:11

If you

Steve: 25:11

yeah,

Matt: 25:11

go

Steve: 25:11

nowadays there are.

Matt: 25:12

if you drive either way around, we have this mall in Manchester.

Steve: 25:16

Yeah,

Matt: 25:17

There's like a front entrance and a back entrance. You kind of drive around the mall. There are cannabis places on both sides of the mall

Steve: 25:24

yeah, yep.

Matt: 25:27

and

Steve: 25:27

So

Matt: 25:27

then further up

Steve: 25:27

they're

Matt: 25:27

the street.

Steve: 25:27

all around.

Matt: 25:28

I mean, there they are everywhere. If it's a main drag where there are businesses, you are going to find a dispensary.

Steve: 25:35

Yeah. And that's fine again. That's fine for people who can do it. I can't do it. And I'm sure there's a lot of people doing it who can't do it either. But that's, that's another story. So it's always an issue, you know, just a think about our type of topic, but you know, like my like my buddy Neil, who gave me a call using any mind altering substance. Right. And that's what happens. That's what you get from a lot of people. Anything that alters my mind I can't do

Matt: 26:06

Mm hmm.

Steve: 26:07

and there again, there are people who hold that like they will not take pain meds and they will just suck it up and God bless them if they feel that way. But I have to be careful and I have to know it. My wife knows it. You know, we work a program that requires rigorous honesty.

Matt: 26:27

Yeah, I think that's the key.

Steve: 26:28

That's right. And that is it then is honesty. It requires rigorous honesty. And that's what we have to do. Right. So and I remember like when I first came home, first time is like my wife's like, do you want me to hold those? And I was like, Yeah, why don't you hold those for me? Like, you know, I wasn't

Matt: 26:44

I

Steve: 26:44

sure.

Matt: 26:44

would have

Steve: 26:45

I'm like,

Matt: 26:45

my

Steve: 26:45

Yeah,

Matt: 26:45

wife

Steve: 26:45

why don't

Matt: 26:45

do

Steve: 26:45

you

Matt: 26:45

that.

Steve: 26:46

write? Why don't you hold those? Like, you know, And like, when I brought these home over, like, now you can, you can leave them out because I'm going to need them in the middle of the night. And I don't want to have to get you up in the middle of the night. it all depends on where you are and your in your, in your journey depends on your support situation. Depends on your, your program on like how you know, how well connected you are and, and how's that how that looks for you

Matt: 27:11

Yeah. So the key here is this is what I would do with all this stuff. It's grey area. I hope I haven't freaked anybody out with this topic, but if I'm thinking of something that is mind altering for medical purposes for me, I talk to my sponsor or my crew of people who I really trust. I might even bring this up as a topic at AA that I'm going to announce. This is something that I'm dealing

Steve: 27:36

right.

Matt: 27:36

with. This is something medically the doctor has talked about. Here's why I'm considering or I'm going to do it. Here is what my plan is. I'm going to give my wife this because this is a good topic, because somebody might be sitting in the room thinking about this and you could give they'll be silent, but you're giving them the good idea.

Steve: 27:54

Mm hmm.

Matt: 27:54

Think about what is my purpose here and what am I going to do? And there is risk that you could relapse from this no matter what you do. But being like, especially if it's a major surgery or a lot of things like a hernia, do you really

Steve: 28:12

Um,

Matt: 28:13

want to sit there in pain for that long? What is what is the negative of that?

Steve: 28:17

yeah. I think the bigger, bigger risk and that's perfect. Exactly what you said there. That's such a great thing. I'm glad you said that is, too. It's. You take this information and bring it up in a meeting

Matt: 28:29

Yeah.

Steve: 28:29

and put it out there because a couple of things are going to happen. Number one is you're going to get just like you talked about, you're going to get all these different viewpoints. You're going to get these people. They're going to tell you, nope, I'm not going to do it. I'm not sure, you know, you're going to get those viewpoints of no, I don't think you should do anything, but you get a whole bunch of different viewpoints out there. And it's and it's so important that we do that again, that becomes that rigorous honesty that you put it out there and let people know.

Matt: 28:55

Yes,

Steve: 28:56

The other thing is, is to make sure if you have that rigorous honesty that you talk about, it right. And you and you say come back and say, hey, I just want to let you know. And again, it doesn't have to be all the time. But I started this are managing it. So I think one of the bigger problems is something like you talked about with Adderall. Right. But you're ADHD,

Matt: 29:18

right.

Steve: 29:18

right? That's a that could go on for a lifetime.

Matt: 29:22

Yeah.

Steve: 29:23

Right. So that's different than being sent home with 14 boxes that they're not going to they're not going to read up on for me right there

Matt: 29:30

No,

Steve: 29:30

now. And, you know, so but Adderall, like you're going to have that every month, right. And you're going to have that

Matt: 29:39

that's

Steve: 29:39

if you chose to go on it for as long as you might feel necessary.

Matt: 29:43

right.

Steve: 29:44

That's that's a little bit harder to manage. And again, you know, our our program tells us if we need that stuff, then we need to go to the medical people and get help. We don't have all the answers. We don't have it. And, you know, if if you're going to if you're going to let your other if you're going to let your other issues ruin your life, like your ADHD or other things that could also make your life unmanageable, let's face it. Right. If

Matt: 30:12

It does and it has in the past.

Steve: 30:13

right that, then that's not helpful either. So it's a tricky it's a tricky situation. But like you said, bringing it up in meetings, talking about it, absolutely great ideas.

Matt: 30:25

I will tell you the one thing that I accidentally found out that helps ADHD

Steve: 30:29

Hmm.

Matt: 30:29

for me was going to the gym in the morning before work.

Steve: 30:33

Yeah.

Matt: 30:33

And the only reason I was doing that was I was finding I couldn't do it in the afternoon. My wife wasn't home, the girls were here, and if I didn't get up early to go to the gym, it wasn't going to happen. And I get a reimbursement. If I go 120 times in a year and I just missed it last year and I just feel better in the morning. And I realized one day, you know, I'm a little bit more focused than I normally am. And the only thing that's different is I'm going to the gym in the morning.

Steve: 31:06

Yeah,

Matt: 31:07

So there's also that has sometimes a different way of exercising can solve some of these problems.

Steve: 31:15

absolutely.

Matt: 31:15

We'd love to hear from you. What do you think about this topic? More of a controversial one. If you are all types of pissed off about this topic, that's okay. You can email Matt at Super Friends podcast or on Instagram at Sober Friends Pod, the website Super Friends Podcast where you can sign up for the website. Hey, haven't seen you put in an Apple review in a long time. We would love to get five stars and a reason why you love the podcast. Steve. Hope you feeling better

Steve: 31:49

Thanks, Matt.

Matt: 31:49

and we'll see everybody next week by everybody.