E166: Breaking the Silence- Navigating Anonymity in Recovery

Join us in a candid discussion as we delve into the intricate dynamics of anonymity in recovery. From the deeply ingrained principles of programs like AA to the personal journeys of individuals, we explore the nuances of who to confide in and when. In this episode, Steve shares his early experiences, shrouded in secrecy and fear of judgment, juxtaposed against his present-day openness and authenticity. Matt reflects on the delicate balance of disclosure, from sharing out of necessity to gauging potential reactions from loved ones. Discover how navigating anonymity evolves over time, impacting relationships, work environments, and personal growth. From encounters with alcohol-laden acquaintances to unexpected connections in virtual spaces, learn how embracing vulnerability can lead to profound connections and newfound support systems. Join us as we unravel the complexities of anonymity and redefine what it means to share our recovery journeys with the world.

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Transcript

Matt: 0:24

I've never removed John's voice from the intro and I bring it up because you can leave a comment on individual Spotify episodes of this podcast than somebody did. Somebody left a and a comment on there because I talked about a podcast that I like to listen to where the host left and that feeling of lost. And they said, Yeah, I felt the same way about John leaving that it's three guys talking about recovery and now John's not there. And I felt that loss. So it was on a recent episode, so it feels as though they're still listening. But I've just never had the energy nor the desire really to remove John from that. Maybe thinking he'll come back someday.

Steve: 1:10

Come back, Shane. Come back

Matt: 1:13

So I don't know

Steve: 1:14

to

Matt: 1:14

if he's listening still, but there are people who are still looking for you and you've been gone like well over a year.

Steve: 1:21

a just a shout out to John. John celebrated 34 years of sobriety

Matt: 1:26

Yeah.

Steve: 1:27

this past week. So it's a shot off to him and show you that this program can work long term. So

Matt: 1:36

Oh yeah.

Steve: 1:36

good job. Hunt by John. So.

Matt: 1:39

John struggled for the first five years or so,

Steve: 1:41

Oh, yeah.

Matt: 1:41

really struggled.

Steve: 1:43

Yeah. So. But he made it. So anyway. Yeah, we missed him, too. It was.

Matt: 1:48

Mm hmm.

Steve: 1:49

It was we always it was fun having the three of us there. But we're. Here.

Matt: 1:53

Yeah. I would give you his address to go talk to him, but he'd come running out with his rifle,

Steve: 1:57

Yeah.

Matt: 1:57

and it wouldn't. It wouldn't be a pretty. It

Steve: 1:59

Maybe

Matt: 1:59

wouldn't be a pretty

Steve: 1:59

two

Matt: 1:59

thing.

Steve: 2:00

handguns.

Matt: 2:00

Yeah. He'd be like, it's. It's like Yosemite Sam with him

Steve: 2:04

Right.

Matt: 2:04

at his house. Two guns, a rifle, jumping up and down,

Steve: 2:09

Right.

Matt: 2:09

hopping in the air, out. Our topic today is about who you tell you're in recovery. If we go to the AA model, the second is anonymity. And there are a lot of strong feelings around. Do you talk to anybody about it? What does anonymity mean? And there are some people in my life that I talk to about it and some people I'm never going to talk to about it. How have you addressed this, Steve?

Steve: 2:40

It all depends on where I was in my recovery. Right. So when I first came into this program was 1995. Tells you a little bit about how old I am. And I was, you know, in my late thirties and just starting a new job, newest job. And so, yeah, I was very close to the vest, right. Like I was there, felt like there was too much to lose. it felt if I was very like it was only my immediate family. And by that I mean obviously my wife, who I was married to at the time. My mom and dad were alive and my siblings like, literally that was it. A couple cousins, some of my closest cousins, like two of them. I mean, I have 32 first cousins right on my father's side or did have that, Um, two of them that I used to hang out with and party with like those two guys knew. But the rest of my cousins like now and even to this day, I really have not. That has changed. So early on I was very much close to the vest with that. I just I didn't know. I didn't even tell my doctor. Right. And I didn't tell a lot of people cause there are some stuff out there like, Oh, if you tell your doctor, then it becomes like the insurance company can get that and they could raise your rates and like, there was a lot of that stuff that I was fearful of at that time.

Matt: 4:02

We've

Steve: 4:02

I

Matt: 4:02

talked

Steve: 4:02

view it.

Matt: 4:02

about that, and I've never I've never thought about that before. I remember

Steve: 4:07

Yeah,

Matt: 4:07

we've talked about that before. It was a

Steve: 4:09

yeah.

Matt: 4:09

long time ago. And you're just bringing that back?

Steve: 4:11

Yeah. It's just one of the things I remember like, Oh yeah, I don't want to tell my doctor. Like, my doctor knew he could see what was happening with my blood work. He knew it and I knew he knew it. And he knew that I knew he knew it. But we just never discuss it. Now, whether he ever put it in my charts or anything like that, I don't know. But I never uttered those words to him. Today I do. Today he knows. And today we talk about it. You know, I made the I made a funny comment. I just had my physical in January and he was asking me about they always ask you about drug use or alcohol use. And I told him, not at all. And he came he came across marijuana. He's like, Are you using marijuana like the rest of the world is today?

Matt: 4:52

Yeah,

Steve: 4:52

Right?

Matt: 4:52

yeah, yeah.

Steve: 4:53

And my answer to him was, if I could, I would write down my answer to him. Like, if I could be using it, I would be using it. But I can't, so I don't. so anyway, so it's very, very different today than it was when I first came in.

Matt: 5:08

There are these chain dispensaries all over Connecticut.

Steve: 5:13

Ah,

Matt: 5:14

I'm sure

Steve: 5:14

big time.

Matt: 5:14

it's like that where you live. If cannabis has been legalized, it has been in Connecticut. There is this mall near where Steve and I live. And you can enter the mall from like two different sides. There's there's like the west side and the east side, and it's on two different exits of the highway. And there are dispensaries on both of those

Steve: 5:36

Mm

Matt: 5:36

exits on

Steve: 5:37

hmm.

Matt: 5:37

either side of the mall. And there's like a third one up the street.

Steve: 5:41

Right.

Matt: 5:42

So apparently I'm in the wrong business. I should get into the cannabis business and get one of these franchises. Maybe there's some money to be had because yeah, there's a lot of cannabis use being done.

Steve: 5:53

Yeah.

Matt: 5:54

Stigma on that is is dropped. That was never for me. If

Steve: 5:57

Yeah,

Matt: 5:57

my doctor were to ask me that, it would be no, because I don't like the feeling,

Steve: 6:02

yeah. No,

Matt: 6:02

the

Steve: 6:02

I get

Matt: 6:03

instant

Steve: 6:03

it.

Matt: 6:03

paranoia.

Steve: 6:04

I get it. So anyway, but like I said, it's very different now. I don't know. How did you handle it, Matt? What? What? Or how do you still handle it? How And you know, your anonymity,

Matt: 6:14

I'm a little bit more open now upfront. I it was tough. There are people I told because I had to like say we were staying with friends or family in somewhere like Rhode Island where my father in law had a place I would tell some people out of necessity because I was going to meetings when I was

Steve: 6:36

right?

Matt: 6:36

there

Steve: 6:37

Yeah,

Matt: 6:37

and I was more telling them because I'm going to disappear.

Steve: 6:40

right.

Matt: 6:41

Here's where I'm going. So

Steve: 6:43

Yeah,

Matt: 6:43

it was more about I will only tell the people that I have to tell now. It really kind of depends on whether it be helpful. I didn't want to tell my brother in law, but I reached out to him because he's talked about wanting to curtail his drinking. And his message back was, No, I'm going to try something different. Okay. My

Steve: 7:05

yeah,

Matt: 7:05

sister in law, I am very concerned about her drinking. I'm not going to have a conversation with her. I don't think it will go well at all. It would be one of those things where she would hold it over my head for the rest of my life.

Steve: 7:21

right. And that is one of the things that some people need to consider. I know I considered that too, was like, you know, first of all, again today, I can think about it more clearly, but who am I telling it to and why do I feel the need to let that person know? And like I said today, I feel very differently about it. Like today I'm very much open, not so much that I'm in recovery, but I don't drink and I will tell people when I think it's proper, when the conversation like, I'm just not going to say I don't drink and I'm in recovery. Right. Just right off the bat. I don't say that. Tell almost anybody. I do say I just don't drink. If the questions, you know, if the conversations get going further and further, then I may say I used to drink. I can't drink anymore. You know, I'll say something like, you know, I used to drink, but it didn't work for me like that. That's one of my typical statements to a lot of people. It didn't work for me. Right? And then if there's a probing about why didn't work, then I'll be happy to have that conversation. So I don't ever want to, you know, talk to anybody. You know, I've talked about there's some people locally in the neighborhood that every time I see these people, every time I see this one guy in particular, and I see him a lot because we walk dogs together, like he's always has alcohol on his breath. Like doesn't matter what time of day.

Matt: 8:43

No,

Steve: 8:43

It seems

Matt: 8:43

man.

Steve: 8:43

like it doesn't, you know, I don't know about mornings I don't see him in the mornings, but any time in the afternoon. Right. And like, I'll meet him in the woods, like, that's where we would back up to, would walk the dogs and it'll be like 3:00 and he'll have his two dogs out and we'll just run into each other and he'll say, Oh yeah, I got off work at 230. Now he got

off work at 230, it's 3: 9:03

00 and he's already smelling like alcohol. Right. So and he knows I don't recall when I first met him, like he was always off because he's always like in the summertime, like he has a cooler in the back of his truck that always has something in it, right? Either So and that's fine. And again, so I don't I don't need to tell him if the conversation ever comes up, I'd be happy to share it with him. But today I always wonder, you know, like, what am I telling people for? And like, what's what's the purpose of that? How do you handle work these days?

Matt: 9:37

It depends. There are some people I've talked to about it. When it comes up, I do a lot of multimedia at work,

Steve: 9:47

Mm hmm.

Matt: 9:48

so because I have multimedia and I have other equipment, people then ask me, Well, do you podcast? I bet you do some podcasting.

Steve: 9:55

Mm.

Matt: 9:56

And I say, I do. And if they probe further, I'll tell them I'm in recovery. I

Steve: 9:59

Right,

Matt: 9:59

have a podcast for supporting the sober community and I kind of leave it like that. There are a lot of people who it goes right over their head

Steve: 10:06

right.

Matt: 10:07

or

Steve: 10:07

I agree.

Matt: 10:07

they just don't care. I have brought it up when we talked about sort of an offsite. When I say an offsite, I work virtually. So these off sites are kind of like a special meeting where we've had icebreakers. And I brought it up in an icebreaker and it turned out there were a whole bunch of people in that meeting who are also in recovery, who spoke up, people who had like 30, 40 years of recovery who are rather young. And now I have a connection with some of those people. One of them was my boss's boss, and I have this connection with her and we'll kind of meet up for like a one on one and we'll just talk about recovery now, which

Steve: 10:47

Yeah.

Matt: 10:47

it opened the door to a different conversation.

Steve: 10:52

Yeah. And I do think that you find that today. Again, I am not sure if was any different. Maybe my perception was different back in 95 in the, you know, late nineties when I first came in. But I do think that you find that there's just seems to be more people who are open about it and I think it's more accepted, right? Like there was a time Right. A lot of people were afraid that they get fired

Matt: 11:18

Mm

Steve: 11:19

if

Matt: 11:19

hmm.

Steve: 11:19

they knew that or okay, it's the old thing. Like when we read in our you know, we read in our literature once, once to, you know, to employers, once somebody is known to be an alcoholic, then they don't show up for work like that type of risk. You feel like it a little bit less so today, I think, than it was in the past. so I think it's just way more accepted. And like, you said, you run into people that you don't know. I had a very similar experience with something like that. I was in a business where I used to sell computer equipment and I had this one guy who was local, but but a big player in the business. And I knew him for a long time and we would go out to lunch together and all this kind of stuff and never knew he was in recovery. And then one day I go to a meeting and in walks this fellow, right? Like this is like

Matt: 12:14

Mm

Steve: 12:14

I've known

Matt: 12:14

hmm.

Steve: 12:14

him for 20 years and and I'm like, Oh, what's going on? And so we get talking about it, you know, And it's like he had been in recovery for a long time, and I just had no clue as it is nice to have those, right? It is nice to have those relationships. One of those things I'll tell you is 2019, actually, January 2020, I started working for the company I'm currently working for and they're out of Toronto and I went up there and I leveled with my boss right from the beginning. Like I had like, you know, I'm in recovery. Like, I just wanted him to know right off the bat, okay, Now it just so happens that he's Muslim, so and he doesn't drink. And a lot of the people that he employs are Muslim. They don't drink for the most part, as far as I know. And so it sort of fit that whole culture. But I did want him to know right off the bat the other thing that happens is like now we do the regular meetings and I don't use my podcast stuff when I do these meetings. So I just it's just a quick little zoom meeting. So I don't use my podcast stuff, but my podcast offers visible,

Matt: 13:15

Mm hmm.

Steve: 13:16

right? And I've told them before, like I do this, I've told a couple of them, like I do this podcast now I'm on this meeting with like five or six other people and like one of the guys says, Hey, you still doing your podcast? And I'm like, Yeah, still doing it right. And you know, so so there is that same thing. It's the same thing with me too. People say to me or I say something, I got to go home, I'm going to do a podcast. And a lot of people say, What kind of podcast do you do? And then I'm not going to lie to them. And I say, I do a podcast about recovery, you know, and if that opens a door to more conversation, so be it. The thing I like about that is that I would hope that if they ever needed help, they would say, Hey, I remember Steve telling me he does a podcast about recovery. Maybe I should just go talk to him, you know, see what's going on. So, you know, like I said, it's a little bit different to me that it was. But yeah, I mean, I just today I think that maybe I could be helpful to some people. So

Matt: 14:12

Right.

Steve: 14:13

a little bit more liberal with a not totally I mean, shout it from mountaintops and I don't think it's anybody's business, but I'm way more liberal than I used to be with it.

Matt: 14:22

I am. I am. Oh, I forgot the word there. I'm selectively liberal with it, depending on the situation where I think I could be helpful when I had direct reports, I used to talk about it when I sensed a need. And in one of those people who reported to me, he ended up in rehab because of our conversation.

Steve: 14:51

Right?

Matt: 14:51

And he got sober.

Steve: 14:53

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, there's there's no question about it. And I think that's a great way to put it, selectively liberal. Right. And it's the same thing. I mean, like I said, I always sort of get a feel for a situation and then I, you know, then I put it out there

Matt: 15:11

Mm

Steve: 15:11

and

Matt: 15:11

hmm.

Steve: 15:11

we've talked about we had a friend who my wife's friend who had since passed away from this disease. and I mean, we are very open that, know, my wife was the one a good friend of. Sure. My wife told her when we first got together, but, um, and eventually she came to me and asked for some help, and I gave her would help. I could. It didn't work for her. but I gave her some help and sure to the program and took her to meetings and all that kind of stuff. So that's, that's all I can do with that. And, um, and I do, you know, I do like that opportunity to be able to help people when I can.

Matt: 15:43

You've told that story a number

Steve: 15:44

Mm

Matt: 15:44

of times.

Steve: 15:46

hmm.

Matt: 15:46

And I like that. You tell it a number of times. You never know when something

Steve: 15:51

Mm

Matt: 15:51

is going to sink in. And repetition

Steve: 15:54

hmm.

Matt: 15:55

is really important. Yeah. I talk to people in my family sometimes. I don't know. I never before my mom passed away, I never talked to her about

Steve: 16:07

Mm

Matt: 16:08

it because

Steve: 16:08

hmm.

Matt: 16:09

I was afraid she would turn it on herself. And more about

Steve: 16:14

Mm hmm.

Matt: 16:14

it would upset her that she was a bad mother. She did a lot of those things that anything that something didn't go well with me. It was about her. And I didn't want to go down that. And I'm saying this as a way of some to save for some emotion and some she always made it about herself.

Steve: 16:37

Yeah.

Matt: 16:37

And I didn't want to have that conversation with her.

Steve: 16:40

Yeah. It's really interesting you bring that up. one of my regrets in life in general, but certainly in my recovery, is I've talked about I grew up, my mom was alcoholic, and my mom got sober for all I know, on her own without any program at all. Um, a bit of an intervention with me and my sister. but never went to rehab. Never. Not just quit somewhat, but seemed to be cold turkey. I don't know if it took a while, whatever. And I never talked to my mom about it. And this was like when I was young, I was in my early twenties when this all came to be when she quit. Um, and by the time I became alcoholic and knew that I was alcoholic, it was 15 years later, you know, it was a long time after that. I never talked to my mom about that. I never talked about my mom, about her being an alcoholic, about how she recovered, about me being alcoholic. I don't know why. I really don't. I it's interesting you bring that up. I think about that. Like, why didn't I have those conversations with my mom? We shared we shared that. And I don't know if it's the same thing. Like, I don't know if they're in the back of my head. Was I worried about the same thing about my mom feeling bad about it? I don't know. Was it it wasn't something in the forefront of my decision making, but but I regret it today. Like, I never had that conversation. I wish I had. I wish I knew what she did. I wish she knew like what happened to her. I wish I knew her story. Right? That's what I wish I knew. I wish I knew her story. And and she certainly didn't know mine either, because my my alcohol use mirrored hers. So maybe that's why I didn't I don't know. Again, I'm sort of thinking this through as we talk, but my it mirrored hers. My mom, you know, like she would drink just the way I drank or I would drink just the way she drank. So I don't know if I felt like that would be hurt for her to her or not, but I'm like I said, it's one of my we got to I never I never really talked to. She knew I was in the program. She knew I was in recovery. one of the problems with that, like, my closest family, is didn't know how I drank. Like, they had no clue. Plus, I had I moved away. I was still in same state, but so the only time they would see me was our family, gatherings, parties, stuff like that. They didn't see me on a day to day basis and and in those situations I always drank socially for the most part, unless it was a unless it was a really get drunk party, which we had plenty of those too. So it was sort of a shock to a lot of the people closest to me when I first came in these rooms.

Matt: 19:17

I've told some family members and sat down with them

Steve: 19:21

Mm hmm.

Matt: 19:21

and then they've forgotten. I guess I

Steve: 19:23

Yeah,

Matt: 19:23

had this long

Steve: 19:23

yeah,

Matt: 19:24

conversation

Steve: 19:24

yeah,

Matt: 19:24

with my father in law. And then there has been so many times that my father in law was holding a beer and some hair, and he throws it right in my face. I'm like, What are you doing? Oh,

Steve: 19:33

yeah,

Matt: 19:33

I forgot. You don't like bear anymore. No,

Steve: 19:37

yeah,

Matt: 19:37

that's not what it is. It's. I like it too much.

Steve: 19:41

right.

Matt: 19:42

He

Steve: 19:42

I

Matt: 19:42

did that recently. Within the last year or so. He threw a glass of beer in my face

Steve: 19:48

I've had that happen were people and that's how much they forget. But they asked that question, Hey, you still not drinking? You know, and again, some of that was because I just told them I wasn't drinking a lot more than I was in recovery. But today, like I said, today, it's very different. Today, my high school, like I got a bunch of high school friends that we get together with and and they're all big Tom A couple of them are big. I shouldn't say they're all bigger than that. A couple of them are pretty still pretty good drinkers. But there's another guy who, like me, is in recovery. He's been in recovery for a long time. So we always chit chat together. We have open conversations now, right? Like we'll be sitting there, we'll talk about our programs and stuff like that. But that was something I didn't do for years. Like a these are some of my closest friends and I still didn't tell them. Like one of the things I didn't want to tell, I didn't want to I never want to ruin anybody else's drinking. I really don't. I mean that like, I don't want to

Matt: 20:42

right.

Steve: 20:43

write like how, you know, be sitting there when everybody's having a good time and then go, Oh, no, I can't drink because I'm in recovery and then like, have it ruin their night, like, I'm not interested in doing that. Like, that's not for me to do. So in certain situations, I do stay away from it.

Matt: 20:59

All right. I'm going to go on a little bit of rant here. It's

Steve: 21:02

Sure.

Matt: 21:02

funny that you said that because I am also I am not against alcohol. If you can drink appropriately and you can utilize

Steve: 21:11

Mm

Matt: 21:11

booze without being an addict, go for it. It

Steve: 21:15

hmm.

Matt: 21:15

has nothing to do with me. We I believe in alcohol is inert. To me, it's not for me, but I'm not going to make any judgments. And there is this asshat on social media who is raging about the health benefits that you shouldn't drink. And this guy posted something about Taylor Swift chugging a beer at the Super Bowl.

Steve: 21:38

Right.

Matt: 21:39

And even I commented on this that he said something along the lines of she's she's advocating alcohol and this is bad. It's bad for you. And it went in and like, if she doesn't have a problem,

Steve: 21:53

Uh,

Matt: 21:53

who cares?

Steve: 21:54

right,

Matt: 21:54

How do we know that it's not a out alcoholic beer? What

Steve: 21:57

right,

Matt: 21:57

do we know about that? And this guy got got absolutely hammered. And then like the next day he's in the Daily Mail with an article about him saying the Swifties have tried to cancel me for my opinion on like a come on, like, you set that up knowing you could get a newspaper article.

Steve: 22:15

right.

Matt: 22:16

So it's just reminding me of I don't have an issue of people drinking and that

Steve: 22:22

Yeah,

Matt: 22:22

that should be the healthiest response of if I'm out to dinner and other people want to have a drink, I shouldn't raise my hand and say you shouldn't drink because of me. Because if if alcohol is whether you have alcohol in front of me or not, there are ways for me to get alcohol if I truly want it. It's just an excuse to me.

Steve: 22:41

right.

Matt: 22:42

So I have to be in a healthy place where people can have booze around me and it doesn't affect me.

Steve: 22:49

I'll take it even a step forward. A step farther than that. I don't even care if people are problem drinkers or alcoholics, Like, you know, it's not my place. I mean, this honestly, It's like. It's not my place to judge those people in that situation. Maybe I mentioned something about my recovery, but that's it. Like, I just. Like I said, I don't. I'm not there to save anybody. I'm not I'm not

Matt: 23:14

Mm

Steve: 23:14

out

Matt: 23:14

hmm.

Steve: 23:14

here to save anybody. So, you know, like, you know, I'll bring up that thing like my friend. They're like my wife and I friend like, I saw all that happening. She knew like I wasn't I didn't try to I didn't try to save her. So I don't even care about people drinking like this. And a lot of people out there, like I said, a couple of these high school friends that I have, they drink hard at times. At times they drink hard. Now, again, I have no idea how they drink Monday through Friday, you know how they drink after I leave. You know, I know how I drank, right? And my point was I would always drink hardest when nobody was around, you know? So I see these guys and it's like, I don't know, they're they seem to have an okay life. they don't seem to have a problem. They, they certainly at times drink too much. They probably drink and drive like they do some of these behaviors that aren't good, but it's not my place to judge them or try to fix them or try to encourage them to change. That's really not. I do know that if these guys had a problem, they know enough that if they wanted to talk to me about it, they could that that's what I know, right?

Matt: 24:28

Yep.

Steve: 24:29

If they wanted to talk to me like, Hey, what's going on? How do you know? You know, when did it become a problem for you? What did you recognize? Like if that conversation and if they wanted to have that, they know they could have that with me. And other than that, like, they're fine. Like, you know, a lot of times like, we get together, we last year, we got together over a friend's house from Rhode Island. People stayed there because they want to drink as

Matt: 24:52

Mm

Steve: 24:52

much

Matt: 24:52

hmm.

Steve: 24:52

as they wanted to. Right. People stayed over, you know, So it's up to them. Like I said, I'm not here to judge just like you. I'm not here to judge. And I have my own. It's my issue. I guess it's my issue with alcohol. I understand that. And today I know that. And when I'm uncomfortable around alcohol and that could be anywhere, I could be with my wife, my or I still have some glasses of wine here and there. There's times where, like for some reason I just smell the wine. I literally pick up her glass and move it so that I don't smell it, you know,

Matt: 25:27

I

Steve: 25:27

and

Matt: 25:28

am

Steve: 25:28

or

Matt: 25:28

that way with wine.

Steve: 25:29

Yeah, or I'll be like, I just can't do whatever it is. Like, I'm just I'm protective of me but not bothered by them. You know, if my wife wants to drink, you know, I talk to her many times. She, she can buy a bottle of wine. It could sit in a it could sit in the fridge for three or four days as she has a glass a night, you know. Yeah. I couldn't sit there for 30 minutes for me. I mean that

Matt: 25:50

No,

Steve: 25:51

honestly.

Matt: 25:52

no.

Steve: 25:52

I

Matt: 25:52

Alcohol

Steve: 25:52

mean.

Matt: 25:54

is my drug of choice, But my real drug of choice was wine

Steve: 25:58

Yeah.

Matt: 25:59

and I had no defense against wine that just went down. I wish I was more like you and not judgy, but I know it was a character defect when I see problem behavior. I am very

Steve: 26:13

Mm

Matt: 26:13

judgy about it.

Steve: 26:14

mm

Matt: 26:14

I don't speak up,

Steve: 26:16

mm

Matt: 26:16

but I'm

Steve: 26:16

mm

Matt: 26:16

thinking about it in my mind. It bums me out. Give me an example. I had a six hour drive this week for a volleyball tournament down to Lancaster, Pennsylvania. A long drive through parts of Pennsylvania where there was nothing there. And we came back to the hotel and one of the teams was staying there. I think there are probably maybe 12 people in each volleyball team. So if you've got one or two parents there, you do the math. And they were we walked back into the hotel maybe 9:00. And as I'm walking in, they're kind of gathered in the hotel lobby and my son counted three bottles of wine and there was one individual talking and he had his arm around a pyramid of Miller Lite cans.

Steve: 27:13

mm.

Matt: 27:13

They were all like, Pyramid it up. But he had his hand

Steve: 27:14

Yeah.

Matt: 27:15

on them and I could see the body language of These are my miller lights. Do not

Steve: 27:19

Right,

Matt: 27:19

touch them.

Steve: 27:20

Yeah,

Matt: 27:21

And we got to the elevator and and Owen was laughing. He couldn't even hold it in because he picked up on all of it. And I was really like, Why? Why are you doing this? Why do you need to have this much wine? Because we came back from a team dinner and we're the other where our team was staying. I couldn't get into that hotel and we had Domino's Pizza and we walk into this one and they're like pouring wine and owns like, they're not going to be in a good place tomorrow.

Steve: 27:49

yeah,

Matt: 27:49

They're they're going to have a tough time. And yeah, it bum me out. And I was judgmental about it. And I struggle with that that I see problem behavior or my opinion of problem behavior. And I don't like it.

Steve: 28:02

yeah. I don't see, I don't see it, I don't even see, I don't judge that time, I just know it's not my place to do anything about it. Like I don't need to be involved with it if I see really bad behavior or if I see some of my friends doing some of their stuff, I'm concerned by them for sure. Like, like, you know, I really am. But it's just not my place. Like

Matt: 28:23

Mm hmm.

Steve: 28:23

it's not my place to fix them or to offer them help unless they're asking me. I mean, that's a big point I'm making. It's not my place to sort of offer them help.

Matt: 28:31

Gotcha.

Steve: 28:31

I'll just I'll tell you something that it just we my I remember my class senior trip. That was a long time ago now, and I would never remember we were in Pennsylvania to my fact, we were going to Hershey Park and I can remember getting to the hotel and then, you know, we were all seniors and I was 17 and I was drinking and drug using by that point in my life. And I just remember, like the chaperones, I remember this one hotel that we stayed at, like all the chaperones were in the bar. And like, I remember them laughing and drinking and having a good time. And it's like, you know, that's what chaperones did. Right. And this again, this was back in the mid-seventies. So it's like they were they're having a good time. And a lot of a lot of people at these type of, you know, club volleyball or club club sports. Right. That is it's a it's a way to go out there. People do that. And again, it's not it's a social thing, right? For a lot of them, it's just social things. So

Matt: 29:24

Right.

Steve: 29:26

it's not a big deal. Just as a side note, I just saw a comedian gone through social media and he talked about about how parents take their kids all over the place at Club Sports these days. He's like, wait a minute, my reward my reward for working 50 hour weeks is to drive

Matt: 29:43

Yeah.

Steve: 29:43

all across and spend my whole weekend driving you to tournaments. And it was funny cause I just looked at that and I just my my daughter played club soccer and it was like, yeah, I remember those weekends, you know, where you just you went out and drove and spent the whole weekend doing tournaments. So

Matt: 30:01

Some of the drives are not that far. I've

Steve: 30:04

right.

Matt: 30:04

had to stay overnight in Providence. This week will be staying overnight in Boston. This is the one that was the five, six hour drive. That was a long haul. And, yeah, that that is my reward. But it actually is my reward because I get that one on one time with my son.

Steve: 30:23

Right, right. I don't disagree with that.

Matt: 30:25

And

Steve: 30:25

Right.

Matt: 30:25

the fact

Steve: 30:25

You do?

Matt: 30:25

that he came walking in last night and said, I really had a good time this weekend and walked

Steve: 30:30

Yeah,

Matt: 30:31

out for him at 15 to say that to me

Steve: 30:35

right.

Matt: 30:35

is a big deal.

Steve: 30:37

It is. It is a big deal at that age that you're able to do that type of stuff. Is this school vacation week for you guys.

Matt: 30:44

Sort of. It's like

Steve: 30:45

Okay.

Matt: 30:45

they get Friday and Monday off.

Steve: 30:47

Okay.

Matt: 30:47

That's

Steve: 30:47

So,

Matt: 30:47

their school

Steve: 30:48

yeah,

Matt: 30:48

vacation.

Steve: 30:49

I wasn't sure. Yeah, but but you're right. It is there is an advantage to that, especially when you have three kids at home.

Matt: 30:56

These two girls, first of all, it would have been a lot of

Steve: 30:59

all

Matt: 30:59

money, especially Boston, coming up to take the whole

Steve: 31:01

right.

Matt: 31:01

family. I just took them. Second of all, an 11 year old girl and a nine year old girl

Steve: 31:07

Right.

Matt: 31:07

going to outside of Lancaster, Pennsylvania. If you know the area around Lancaster or anywhere in like the Lehigh Valley down there, there's nothing.

Steve: 31:19

No, there's nothing.

Matt: 31:20

There is the biggest cornfields that I've ever seen

Steve: 31:23

Yeah.

Matt: 31:23

in my life.

Steve: 31:23

All right.

Matt: 31:24

I thought it would be better than going up to Burlington, Vermont. And as we're driving home, the National Weather Service sent these alerts that shut your phone off three times because we were driving into these

Steve: 31:36

Oh,

Matt: 31:36

massive snow squalls that just like came across. It was blinding and not so. I'm glad I took them. And then it's like the whole weekend was. Leave the hotel, go to the volleyball tournament, be there all day, maybe get dinner, go home, go to sleep. That's all we did.

Steve: 31:56

yeah. My. The most famous quote that I have always loved about Pennsylvania was back in one of the one of the elections, presidential elections. I don't know if it was Bill Clinton or whatever, but it was James Carville and James Carville describe Pennsylvania like this. He said Pennsylvania is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between.

Matt: 32:20

Yes,

Steve: 32:22

Right. And it just because it is a state, the whole thing about Pennsylvania is so rural in between those two cities. And that goes so obviously, there's pockets of other thing in there, but it is just such a rural place. And and it's big. It's a big it's a fairly big state,

Matt: 32:39

very

Steve: 32:40

especially

Matt: 32:40

big.

Steve: 32:40

when, you know, when you get up to the east here. So.

Matt: 32:42

We were 25 miles from the south. If you Korea, if you consider the Mason-Dixon line, the

Steve: 32:48

Right,

Matt: 32:48

South,

Steve: 32:48

right.

Matt: 32:49

there were there was this. I was giggling because there's this one gas station. We kept going by sheets S.H. e.t.c., I think I'm pronouncing that correctly.

Steve: 33:01

Yeah.

Matt: 33:01

And it's a huge gas station

Steve: 33:03

Oh yeah, yeah,

Matt: 33:04

with a sit down restaurant inside.

Steve: 33:06

yeah. I actually when we drove out to where we drive, I guess we drove out to yeah, that's what it was. We drove out to, uh, Chicago for the wedding a couple of years ago in October. Yeah. And we stopped at one. We, we had a hotel, and then right next to it was this huge Sheetz, you know, gas station, restaurant, you know, truck stop. It had everything. It has. It's huge. They're all

Matt: 33:26

Yeah.

Steve: 33:26

huge. Yeah, yeah, they're big, big. They're big out that way. And we're I forget where we were. We were I think we were in Ohio at that point, which, you know, I. Oh, Pennsylvania pretty, pretty close.

Matt: 33:37

Oh, yeah. Well, I hope you can identify with this episode if you have send an email. Matt It's so friends podcast Mom, I learned this week that you can put a comment on each episode If you listen on Spotify. I do that, I get a notification and I'll put the comment up there for you and I'll read it. Give us a review on Apple Podcasts, five Star Review. Hopefully with what you love about the podcast, Instagram is that sobre friends Pod and you can join the mailing list I'm doing now on the mailing list, like a little bit of an essay. It is usually associated with the podcast, but something about what it means to me and I hope it's something that you would enjoy. You get the opportunity going to Sober Friends podcast to sign up for our newsletter. It keeps us in touch, and especially with social media being all over the place. I think nobody thought that Twitter would go sideways. Even maybe

Steve: 34:38

Yeah.

Matt: 34:38

a year and a half ago. And

Steve: 34:39

Uh,

Matt: 34:40

what a cesspool. I don't go there. So you never know that. Like if if social media goes down someday, we still have a way of connecting. Steve, thanks for doing this with me today.

Steve: 34:50

hey, Matt. You're welcome.

Matt: 34:51

And

Steve: 34:52

Great

Matt: 34:52

we'll see

Steve: 34:52

to

Matt: 34:52

if

Steve: 34:52

be with

Matt: 34:52

we

Steve: 34:52

you.

Matt: 34:53

see everybody next week by everybody.