E167: Confronting Fear: Overcoming Comfort Zones and Anxiety

In this episode, we delve into the insidious grip of fear and its impact on their lives. Reflecting on recent experiences, they candidly discuss the repercussions of allowing fear to dictate their actions, from missed opportunities to strained relationships. The conversation unfolds as they share personal anecdotes, from Steve's reluctance to take a day off to Matt's travel anxieties.

Their exchange underscores a universal truth: fear can manifest in myriad forms, from economic insecurity to the fear of failure. As they navigate the complexities of fear, they unveil its close ties to control and comfort zones, revealing how fear-driven reactions can lead to unintended consequences.

Through introspection and vulnerability, Steve and Matt unpack the destructive cycle of fear and its correlation with addictive behaviors. They candidly explore how fear often masquerades as anger, causing rifts in relationships and perpetuating harmful patterns.

Yet, amidst the challenges, they find solace in the power of acknowledgment and self-awareness. By confronting their fears head-on, they pave the way for growth and resilience. Their conversation serves as a beacon of hope, reminding listeners that liberation from fear is attainable through courage and introspection.

Check out as we embark on a journey of self-discovery, challenging listeners to confront their own fears and embrace the transformative journey toward healing and wholeness.

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Transcript

Matt: 0:24

Steve, We can't take a day off anymore without being noticed. I guess we have moved to that level where we actually have an audience

Steve: 0:31

Oh, wow.

Matt: 0:31

and people actually noticed that there was no podcast last week.

Steve: 0:36

Yes. That's a good thing. A good thing that they know it's not a good

Matt: 0:39

Yep.

Steve: 0:39

thing that there wasn't one. But yeah, that's what happens when, you know, it's a lesson learned. Like I reached out to you. We

Matt: 0:47

Mm

Steve: 0:47

typically

Matt: 0:47

hmm.

Steve: 0:47

tape on a Thursday, and I don't know, I just wasn't feeling up to it. So I reach out to you and like, Hey, let's hear it. Can we do it? Like, Yeah, just move it. And then your weekend went sideways and next thing you know, right? That we couldn't, you know, there wasn't anything we can do or we didn't have time to get it done. So

Matt: 1:03

Could have. It would have been half assed and

Steve: 1:05

yeah.

Matt: 1:05

it wouldn't have been very good. I was exhausted.

Steve: 1:08

Well, my point is, is I typically, I take pride in saying that I don't take days off from my program,

Matt: 1:13

Yep.

Steve: 1:13

like my my regular meetings. Like, I typically don't stay home for my meetings if I'm tired. And it was it was a lesson learned to me, like, don't take nights off. I'm here unless I have to. If I

Matt: 1:25

Mm

Steve: 1:25

have

Matt: 1:25

hmm.

Steve: 1:25

to, I have to. But not just because I don't feel like doing it. Because you just never know, right? You get caught and then all of a sudden you get caught and now you're busy on the weekends. So.

Matt: 1:33

Yep.

Steve: 1:34

Yeah, some something. Me alone. That's why I reached out to you. I'm like, Hey, I'm away this weekend. So yeah, let's make sure we record tonight, you

Matt: 1:39

Yeah.

Steve: 1:39

know?

Matt: 1:39

I'm glad you did.

Steve: 1:40

Yeah. So.

Matt: 1:41

Even though I'm not today, I'm not at my best for a different reason. Had

Steve: 1:44

Yeah.

Matt: 1:44

a colonoscopy today,

Steve: 1:46

Mm

Matt: 1:46

so

Steve: 1:46

hmm.

Matt: 1:47

still groggy, but last weekend was a trip to Boston. My son had a volleyball tournament, so we're there three days,

Steve: 1:55

Mm.

Matt: 1:55

and we got back. We were. I was gassed. It was

Steve: 1:58

Yeah,

Matt: 1:58

like I had been to Europe for a week.

Steve: 2:00

yeah,

Matt: 2:01

It was like I wasn't out of the time zone, but I felt jet lagged. I was gassed on, didn't go to my meeting on Monday because I was gassed.

Steve: 2:08

yeah.

Matt: 2:09

So

Steve: 2:09

Yeah. I

Matt: 2:09

we

Steve: 2:09

mean, you're not, you're not used to having that level of activity. I mean,

Matt: 2:11

knew.

Steve: 2:11

you're busy, you know, but not, not that level where you're going. You're not sleep in your own bed, all those things. Right? So

Matt: 2:17

Yeah.

Steve: 2:18

not eating at home, you know, just your whole, your whole program, your whole schedules messed up. And I just. No, listen, I'm always happy as much as I'll I'm going on retreat. And as much as I enjoy that, I'm always happy to get back home to my own bed. Even when I'm on vacation. I like I'm always happy to get back home to my own bed. I just feel better there. I sleep

Matt: 2:36

Mm hmm.

Steve: 2:37

better. There are all those things. So but we're back

Matt: 2:39

We're

Steve: 2:39

to

Matt: 2:39

going

Steve: 2:39

like,

Matt: 2:39

to have to that'll be a let's do that as a topic sometime. Retreat, sober retreats. What

Steve: 2:43

yeah,

Matt: 2:44

they are.

Steve: 2:45

sure. That's

Matt: 2:45

I've

Steve: 2:45

a great

Matt: 2:45

been to one in my whole life.

Steve: 2:47

Oh, you should do more.

Matt: 2:50

Yeah,

Steve: 2:50

This

Matt: 2:50

I probably

Steve: 2:50

is

Matt: 2:50

should.

Steve: 2:51

the today. I'm going to one and I haven't done a winter one in a long time and I've decided that I need to do more. Like I've always done one for a while and I've done thrown a couple in. But now I'm going to try to do two or three a year every year and they're just good. It's just nice to get away and forget about it. You know, you get away from a lot of stuff, so and you can do a little bit of focus. There's 38 guys going on this retreat, man. It's a nice retreat,

Matt: 3:16

Mm

Steve: 3:16

you

Matt: 3:16

hmm.

Steve: 3:16

know? So it'll be it'll be a lot of it. It'll be a lot of fun, a lot of good stuff.

Matt: 3:20

It

Steve: 3:20

Like,

Matt: 3:20

was a financial hardship when I went to the first

Steve: 3:22

yeah.

Matt: 3:23

time back in 2014,

Steve: 3:25

Mm.

Matt: 3:26

where I think. I think it was I think it was close to $200, maybe

Steve: 3:34

Yeah,

Matt: 3:34

160, but it was in

Steve: 3:35

right,

Matt: 3:35

that range.

Steve: 3:36

right,

Matt: 3:37

This is not a financial hardship for me anymore.

Steve: 3:40

right, yeah,

Matt: 3:41

It's something I can do. And the kids are older where if I'm away for a weekend, it would be okay.

Steve: 3:49

right.

Matt: 3:49

But I had made so many excuses that I got out of the habit.

Steve: 3:55

Yep.

Matt: 3:55

So I still

Steve: 3:55

It's

Matt: 3:56

get

Steve: 3:56

easy.

Matt: 3:56

the mailings.

Steve: 3:57

It's easy.

Matt: 3:58

Yeah.

Steve: 3:58

Lots, lots of good ones out there.

Matt: 4:00

Mm hmm. So that that goes into our topic. And the topic is fear.

Steve: 4:05

Mm.

Matt: 4:05

And one of the reasons I didn't go on these retreats was fear.

Steve: 4:08

Yeah.

Matt: 4:08

Fear of letting down my family financial, not having the money for it. My wife would be angry at me.

Steve: 4:15

Right.

Matt: 4:16

These are all fear things. So I. I'm sure we've done a fear show before,

Steve: 4:22

Yeah, of course.

Matt: 4:22

but I could do a fear show every week and talk about my fears.

Steve: 4:30

It's one of the Yeah, it's one of the big things I think. I don't think it's unique to alcoholics or addicts, because I think it's, there's a lot of people who have that, but I think it's, it's more prevalent to our, you know, our addiction because I, you know, I know for me right For me, I'll talk to me. Is that it? Just it kept me drinking for a long time

Matt: 4:56

Mm hmm.

Steve: 4:56

like this. This, the the whole thing, like you said, this fear of everything, fear of economic insecurity, fear of letting people down, fear of my marriage failing, like fear of everything. It just. And then, you know, I would be so tied in knots over all this fear that I needed to do something to get rid of it. And and, you know, my you know, my outlet was to drink. You know, we always talk about drinking wasn't a problem, was the solution.

Matt: 5:22

Absolutely.

Steve: 5:22

So so, you know, when I had all that fear, my solution was to drink and I'd forget about my fear. So it's something that, still creeps up with me. Not as much as it used to, and. But it's still something I got to pay attention to, you know? I mean, I have to pay attention to it because I just tell you what, for me, my fear turns to anger is what happens. And and we can talk about that and dig into that a little

Matt: 5:49

Yes.

Steve: 5:49

bit. But that's that's what happens to me. And

Matt: 5:51

Yeah, me too.

Steve: 5:52

and that's not fun, right? It's not fun because, you know, typically I end up taking it out on the people that I care about most.

Matt: 5:59

That happened to me. First day we went, so we had a longer weekend, usually. Oh, let me think. Now, this is the same amount of time, I think, than we did in Pennsylvania. But it was more packed days, even though it was a closer drive, we drove to Boston. So. From where I live, maybe a two hour drive up there. But we had everybody. Usually I take own by myself. The whole family went. So

Steve: 6:28

Okay.

Matt: 6:28

we had a much bigger hotel.

Steve: 6:30

All right.

Matt: 6:31

We had a suite. It was we had to do a lot of walking in Boston. My usual steps on my Apple Watch are like 8000. I was doing like 18, 20,000

Steve: 6:40

All right.

Matt: 6:40

steps.

Steve: 6:41

Yeah.

Matt: 6:42

It was it was crazy, the amount of physical activity. And we were not moving the way I like to move.

Steve: 6:51

Mm.

Matt: 6:51

You know, I have a whole way of doing these trips and now I'm adding in more people and they don't do it the way I want them to do it. And, you know, I have this one little bag and I turn around and look, I could send you the photos. My wife had an enormous bag. My two daughters had two enormous bags. And then they start packing food. And I just that upset me. And we got on the road late and we weren't doing it the way I wanted. And we were trying to find somewhere to eat that first night. And I just I'm the decisive one of the group. We walked by illegal seafood. I didn't really want to do a chain, but I'm like, You know what? I heard a lot of these places can't get reservations. So I were walking by and even though it said on the website, No Reservations, I looked down. There were tons of tables. We walked in. Can you see us? Yes. So we went in. I went down the street to pick up my son and he he's like, I don't want to go there. I'm sweaty. I have my bags, I have my pillow,

Steve: 8:06

I think.

Matt: 8:06

and I just looked at him and looked him straight in the eyes. So I get into a fight with him and I'm like, That's it. That's it. No more volleyball. This

Steve: 8:22

Right,

Matt: 8:22

is your last season.

Steve: 8:23

right, Yeah,

Matt: 8:25

And I immediately felt like total crap

Steve: 8:27

yeah, yeah,

Matt: 8:28

immediately. And I think it was it was fear based because I was out of my comfort zone.

Steve: 8:35

yeah,

Matt: 8:36

And a lot of times if we go on trips, I get anxious and squirrely and usually blow up at someone because I think it is I'm out of my comfort zone and I'm uncomfortable and nervous and it ends up going into that.

Steve: 8:52

yeah. There's. There's so many layers to things like that. for me, like, there's a lot of fear, and I remember now talking to my wife, right? My wife and I second marriage. We don't have kids together, but we both had kids, and we talked about how, like, I was petrified when I was out. My kids, like, in parking lots and stuff or anything like anything where my kids could like, fall off the edge or something. and I watch parents even today, and I'm watching them how they just let their kids walk around and I just can't believe them. But I was petrified of it. And that would always turn to anger. Like I would end up screaming at my kids because I was so afraid that something was going to happen, right? So they were like, Do something, just kid stuff. But I'd be screaming at them. Um, and the same thing. It's funny how you said that when you got in a fight with your son, you're like, No

Matt: 9:35

Yeah.

Steve: 9:35

more volleyball. I wasn't.

Matt: 9:37

Hey,

Steve: 9:37

I was in therapy. We were doing some family therapy, my first marriage. And. And I remember talking. I don't know what how we came across conversation, but there was something that my son did, and we talked about, like the type of punishment that I would give them. And the therapist looked at me. She says, Don't you think you're overreacting? I'm

Matt: 9:57

you.

Steve: 9:57

that punishment. Well. I'm like, I don't know. Am I? Like, I don't think I am. But that was the point. Like, that was who I was. Right? I would overreact. Same thing, like, no more. We're done.

Matt: 10:08

Yeah,

Steve: 10:10

And yeah,

Matt: 10:11

yeah,

Steve: 10:11

it's

Matt: 10:11

yeah.

Steve: 10:12

really, really stressful. Plus, you know, the underlying thing is like, I know for me and for you, look, I like to be in control and when things aren't going the way I like them to go, you know, it's going to it's going to irritate me a little bit more.

Matt: 10:27

Mm hmm.

Steve: 10:29

Yeah. And the fear, especially when you're in a place that's new, you know, maybe not exactly sure where you're going with time. Oh, God, there's just so much doing. And and, you know, some people love to travel. I don't mind travel, but it's not like a big desire of mine. I don't. I just don't have this thing to run around, do a lot of of this kind of stuff and a lot of is I'm just not comfortable. Same thing. It's like when I get traveling right when I get move and I want to, you know, get a little bit nervous about, you know, missing stuff just like you like missing

Matt: 10:59

Yeah,

Steve: 10:59

stuff and missing flights and missing connections and stuff like that that I'm just I'm not as comfortable out of my comfort zone. And and actually, I do much better when I fly alone like I have. I've flown for business and I've gone international and stuff. Not a problem like that I can do because I'm in control. I know exactly.

Matt: 11:16

exactly.

Steve: 11:16

I know I can handle myself. But man, if I'm dragging people with me, Oh, God. It's it's it's really, really tough. And so it's always been there for me. I mean, I know we've talked about it. I don't know if we'd run a show on fear, but I know we've talked about fear a lot because it was such a big part of my upbringing and it was such a big part of my discovery when I went through the, you know, through the steps and did a fourth and fifth step,

Matt: 11:42

There are a lot of reasons for fear. I've talked about this with Mark on Recovered, and we both have the same thing. That money is probably

Steve: 11:51

you

Matt: 11:51

our number

Steve: 11:52

know.

Matt: 11:52

one thing that drives fear.

Steve: 11:54

Yeah.

Matt: 11:55

Like, we can really relate over that. I can reel it back a little bit to when I was drinking. Here was a fear that I had of stopping drinking that stopped me from drinking is I had a fear that I would not be able to socialize. I wasn't married at the time early on, but find a girlfriend, find new friends, meet people because the idea of going to a bar and not drinking was not something I could do.

Steve: 12:22

Mm.

Matt: 12:22

I'm an introvert. I can be shy, and I think a lot of that is less shyness and more feeling that people will reject me.

Steve: 12:32

Right,

Matt: 12:33

So I have that inhibition and if I drink, I can get through it. And if I didn't have that crutch, how am I going to do that? So no, I can't stop drinking. That's a fear right there.

Steve: 12:44

right. Absolutely. And it's interesting because one of the things where I think a lot of fear left me, I mean, we're at different stages, like my kids are grown, my wife's kids are grown. You know, they're, they're all set. They, you know, we've helped them out. But all our kids are professionals in their life. In their life Now, right there, the youngest is just turned 30. So they're all professionals. They all have their own life. And now they all get to make all those decisions of grown up decisions that we made. So some of that financial fear is gone right? I was able to make a little bit of money. I'm not wealthy by any means, but I was able to make some money and B, get us comfortable. And and I'm still working right now. I'm able to make a little money. So financial fair is not as big for me. And that has taken some pressure off because that was always a huge thing for me because especially through my alcoholic days, I was underemployed or unemployed for a long time, like a period of like five years. Some of that I was going back to school when I was married, and then even when I had my first son, like I was very much underemployed, was not doing anything capable. But I was also very severely in my alcoholic addiction at that point. And so by the time I really got started, by the time I got started, I'm trying to make a life and trying to contribute to a family. yeah, I was I was in my mid-thirties, you know, even probably later, late thirties, probably. But not mid thirties I guess is when that happened. And, and then six years later I got a divorce, which also set me back again financially so that financial fair was like incredible. And you know, I used to say it drove me to like fear Fair kept me from doing things and it also made me work harder at my job, right? So I think it actually propelled me to really work hard and make some money cause I was in sales and stuff like that. I've talked about it before. We've talked about the imposter syndrome that we both have.

Matt: 14:51

Yes,

Steve: 14:52

I thought forever. I thought forever. I would be fine. I thought forever. I would be the next one fired from my company, you know, And and I ended up being one of the last people. They literally close the company down, and I was one of the last people out the door. I literally was maybe the last one or two people out of the building I worked in for my company. So I made it through all kinds of mergers and this and that and selling of the companies and stuff. But I had so much fear for so long that that, you know, I was never going to make that

Matt: 15:23

I have had that imposter syndrome at work. I have to tell you, I think

Steve: 15:28

you

Matt: 15:28

I've overcome it a bit lately in my new role. I'm not feeling that.

Steve: 15:34

good.

Matt: 15:34

Part of it, I think, is I'm going into this new role with an attitude of because it is a step removed from the front line. You could look at it as not essential. It's essential what we do in terms of we can bring in a lot of value. I think I'm more of a trainer slash consultant person. I'm teaching people how to effectively coach so they can get better results. And there's a whole fight in that. But I look at something like that and I'm like, You know what? I'm willing to take a risk that this could be a position. They could go and cut and say, Well, we don't really need this because if I do get caught, it's worth the risk because I'm developing new skills and developing a skill away from what I was doing before now into something that I'm doing new things. So it opens up other job potential in the future. So I look at that and like, okay, if people don't like what we do and we're dealing with that at work, that that some muckety muck has decided we don't add value. He's never been in one of our trainings the way he was describing it. He doesn't understand

Steve: 16:41

You're

Matt: 16:41

what we do, but he's

Steve: 16:42

right.

Matt: 16:42

clear we don't add value and we have a very good vice president who was very upset about it because he believes in what we do. And his boss went to him and said, You got to settle down, it's fine, don't worry about it. So there are some things we're doing differently to address that. If just superficially and continue doing what we're doing. But on the one hand, it's really great that we have leadership who totally believes in what we do. And I'm getting new skills that

Steve: 17:11

Right?

Matt: 17:11

it wouldn't have the chance to do that. So I'm willing to take a risk.

Steve: 17:14

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, those skills always come in handy no matter what, right? No matter what. They're going to come in handy either within this job and within this, you know, company or within another company. You're going to take

Matt: 17:26

Yeah,

Steve: 17:26

those skills wherever you go. And and that's and that's always that's always a good thing. You know, it's funny that you talked about no value. Like one of the things

Matt: 17:34

that's.

Steve: 17:35

I'll never forget, it was like we worked for a small company and then we merged. Does this merger of like three companies and my boss, my immediate boss in the facility that I was in, we ended up with a new boss from one of the new companies who is out of Minnesota. And and, you know, every time you get a new boss, it's sort of a pain. Yes.

Matt: 17:54

Yep,

Steve: 17:55

And he came in once a time to see with us and he calls us meeting to us. And he comes into this meeting and he has this manila folder in his hand and he slams it on the table

Matt: 18:04

Yeah.

Steve: 18:05

and he goes, God damn monkeys can do what you guys do, you know. And and I just remember, like, that was just one of the times my boss and I walked out of there and, you know, it was after he was gone and no talk, he was gone and like within six months. And it just gave me a little bit thing, you know, a little bit like some bosses just don't know what's going on, right? They they just don't get it, you know? And it's you know, I've always said I've always my favorite line. I've had a lot of bosses in my day, my favorite line when I was working, when I got a new boss. And I always would tell him, Hey, how you doing? I'm Steve and I always used to tell him in a joking fashion, but I said, I'll do my best. But it's always difficult to train a new boss.

Matt: 18:52

Mm hmm.

Steve: 18:53

That's what I tell him, right? And that's because it is. You know, these guys would come in, they think they know everything, and they don't know a lot. Even if they have experience, they don't know a lot about what's happening. Sometimes within within the unit. So

Matt: 19:07

This is how I'm different as a leader. And maybe this is because. Because if I heard something like that early in my career, I think, shit, he knows I'm a fraud.

Steve: 19:17

right,

Matt: 19:17

Now, if you said that to me, I would say, Well, pull in a chair. Tell me what I need to know. That would tell me that this is somebody who knows some stuff. I want to stay close to this guy.

Steve: 19:28

right.

Matt: 19:29

And I would say you're right. I do need to be trained by new people. You willing to do some training?

Steve: 19:37

Yeah.

Matt: 19:37

Because there's a lot I'm sure I don't know. And I'm sure there's a lot of things I don't know that I don't know that I don't know.

Steve: 19:43

Right.

Matt: 19:44

And I'm much better about that now.

Steve: 19:46

Yeah,

Matt: 19:46

Yeah, I think I look at that now and I used to be terrified of those bosses who were throwing things on the table. And now I realize when people behave that way, there's probably something going on with them that is really fear based. I bet this guy

Steve: 20:01

yeah,

Matt: 20:02

at work who is pounding his fists that you don't that value is under pressure because maybe there are results that he's not getting

Steve: 20:11

right.

Matt: 20:11

and he's deflecting. That was the first thing I said in the meeting or somebody is deflecting here.

Steve: 20:15

Yeah. You know, that's the perfect thing because I, you know, I have that insight many times, not all the time, but today myself is to be able to look at that and think, Hmm, I wonder what's that person's going through. Right. And if that person

Matt: 20:30

Yeah,

Steve: 20:31

is reacting or maybe I'd be reacting the same way that person's reacting if I was in that person's shoes. And I maybe I'm able to do that to myself and say, look at that and go, Huh, I get it today. You know, I don't know if I shared this last time, but but, you know, I work for a very small company out of, you know, Canada and and I, I never talk to the owner who's sort of my boss, who is my boss. And basically I just do my thing and I get paid and all that kind of stuff. And a while back, he reached out to me and said, Hey, Steve, do you have a few minutes? And I always

Matt: 21:05

he

Steve: 21:05

think like, right. I always think like, Oh, this is where he's going to fire me. Like, I just this is where he's going to finally say, Steve, you're not doing enough. You're not being you're not add enough value to the company, blah, blah, blah. And so anyway, he goes, Hey, listen, we need to jumpstart the company, you know, doing I've been busy, I've been doing other stuff. IBM Anyway, we get on these calls and I find out that the only two accounts that have been really regularly providing stuff were my two accounts. Right? And it's like it's just a total opposite. Like I was the only one regularly producing. There was other accounts coming in once in a while.

Matt: 21:39

this is

Steve: 21:39

But

Matt: 21:39

a trend with you. You've told

Steve: 21:40

yeah,

Matt: 21:40

me about your sales skills because you've told me a little bit about

Steve: 21:43

yeah.

Matt: 21:43

the things you've done in your job.

Steve: 21:44

Okay.

Matt: 21:45

And the trend is you tend to be one of the hire producers like

Steve: 21:50

I

Matt: 21:50

you've

Steve: 21:50

just

Matt: 21:50

talked about, like not getting a commission this month because

Steve: 21:53

ran

Matt: 21:53

they changed everything up

Steve: 21:54

right,

Matt: 21:55

and yet you're like, I'm not. I can't meet it and I'm the one who delivers the most. It's

Steve: 21:59

right.

Matt: 21:59

like, okay, you're going backwards here,

Steve: 22:02

Right. But it, but it's funny because well, part of it is, is like there's no communication between me and my

Matt: 22:07

right?

Steve: 22:07

own right and that's the biggest like there's no communication and he's got to learn and I don't want to drag it down. But anyway, but again, that is me. That's, that's still part of that thing that I still suffer with, because I think, oh, I'm just not doing it and I don't work that hard. I mean, part of it is I know I don't work that hard and I don't want to work that hard. I mean, I just want I'm working hard enough to make a little bit of money. I'm sort of cruising into retirement. Next year, I'll be able to collect full Social Security, that kind of stuff. So I'm trying to cruise into that a little bit and then I'll figure out what I want to do after that. So I don't want to work that hard. I don't want to really work. I mean, I worked really hard for lots of years. You know, I gave up a lot of stuff, Like I didn't do things like take my kids to volleyball. My daughter, I took a little bit. She didn't travel as far as you're traveling, but my son was a Boy Scout at a time where I was working really hard and I did not do. And it's one of my regrets, right, is they did not do a lot of the Boy Scout stuff with him. And if I had to do my life over, I would have made sure I would have done a lot more. I would have been part of that whole experience and I wasn't. And like a lot of that was that a lot of that happened right after my divorce. I was very poor and I needed to make money the best I can. I needed to work really hard. So I made some choices that, you know, I sort of regret some of them today. But, you know, when one time came for my son to go to college, I was able to help him, you know, because I worked hard during those years. So it

Matt: 23:29

Yeah, I would

Steve: 23:29

worked

Matt: 23:29

challenge

Steve: 23:29

out in his way.

Matt: 23:30

that because I think at times I'm not working as hard as I did in my old role. I

Steve: 23:35

Yeah.

Matt: 23:35

think you're probably more efficient than you think.

Steve: 23:37

Yeah. No, I do. I not only that, but I, I have I'm in sales and actually, I'm not in sales anymore. I'm in I'm, I'm in purchasing right now. And I built up a credibility of 30 years in this business. Right. that people can trust me. They, you know, they can count on me. Perfect example that I was on, we were on a call and I had one of my customers call me up, said, Hey, I forgot to tell you I got this equipment for you. And we laughed on my call with my and my company that it was probably is something that they sold to somebody else and they weren't able to pick it up at the end of the month. So they but they knew if they came to me that I could pick it up and I could pay for it, I could pick it up like so I built up some credibility in that business where I don't have to work that hard, Right, Because I've done that. But I want to get back to the fair. I want to get back to a little bit where people like to win. Okay. You know, we've talked about fair, but some of the things that really gripped me and one of the things that we've talked about I mentioned here before is I grew up in an alcoholic family. My mom was an alcoholic. And one of the things that took me a long time to figure out, but one of the things I struggled with was my relationship with the most significant female in my life. So if that was my girlfriend, you know, like a real steady girlfriend that I had or or my wife or whatever, I struggled big time with those relationships. And I realized after a lot of work and therapy that that struggle was fair based. Right. That struggle was the fact that because I grew up at the the most important parts of my life, like my mom wasn't around. She was busy. And, you know, she was trying to do the best she can with six kids and all. Plus she was an alcoholic. I just felt always like that relationship was going to fall apart, like I was going to be abandoned. That's what I you know, I finally figured out like, I always felt like, okay, this girlfriend is going to dump me or my wife's going to, you know, find some other guy that she likes better. And I was always that fair. And that's where the anger came out. Like, I've made amends to, you know, every significant female I had in my life. And just listen, I was a total jerk. And I remember how doing that when my first real girlfriend, who I thought I would marry and I remember doing my amends with her and she was like, Oh, you weren't that. I'm like, trust me, you know, trust me Like I was. I was a crazy man. I was a crazy man. And I could remember nights where I was a crazy man. So and again, like I said, so that fear would turn into anger and I would, you know, get pissed off and I'd get angry and, oh, God, it was it was a horrible, horrible thing. And that's the beauty of our program. Right. And again, not everybody who listens to this may not be part of the the 12 step program, the AA program that we are. But in our program, we have a chance to uncover that we do the you know, we do the stuff. We take an inventory and we have a chance to identify the fact that these things bother us and then hopefully do some work on them. And I know that when I went through it and I uncovered all that stuff, it allowed me to sort of isolate it and work on it and not change it right away, but change it over time. And like I said, a lot less fear based you. So some of the financial fears because I just don't have it anymore. But some of the other stuff, even with my release and stuff, I'm just more comfortable with it now before. And part of that is like, I know, right? I know. No matter what happens, like we talk about it all the time that I'm going to be okay. Like regardless of what life throws at me, I'm going to be okay.

Matt: 27:17

I still have those fears that I'm going to lose the house. I have those

Steve: 27:20

Oh,

Matt: 27:20

dreams, those nightmares of going back

Steve: 27:22

we

Matt: 27:23

to those places. And every year that goes by, we get closer and closer and closer to having paid off the mortgage.

Steve: 27:31

right,

Matt: 27:32

So eventually, if we just keep plugging along, I'm not in a grip. I'm not in the perfect place. I feel like we make way too much money to have the financial troubles we have. Having said that, I've got a 15 year old, an 11 year old and a nine year old,

Steve: 27:45

right

Matt: 27:46

and they are money vacuums.

Steve: 27:48

there.

Matt: 27:50

And the inflation issue that has hit our family the most has been

Steve: 27:54

Yeah,

Matt: 27:54

the groceries.

Steve: 27:55

yeah. Everybody.

Matt: 27:56

Groceries. Ah, that's the one thing where we feel it. It sucks.

Steve: 28:00

Yeah. That, you know, not to get that get down that rabbit hole. But, you know, these, these companies are making record profits.

Matt: 28:09

Mm

Steve: 28:09

Like,

Matt: 28:09

hmm.

Steve: 28:10

like. And here's the only thing I'll say about this. It's

Matt: 28:12

I used

Steve: 28:12

like.

Matt: 28:13

to be one of these

Steve: 28:13

One.

Matt: 28:13

guys who I'm like, No, no, no, no. Now companies

Steve: 28:16

Yeah.

Matt: 28:16

are not going to do this type of

Steve: 28:17

Oh,

Matt: 28:17

thing. It's

Steve: 28:17

my

Matt: 28:18

only

Steve: 28:18

God.

Matt: 28:18

going to hurt them in the end.

Steve: 28:19

No.

Matt: 28:20

And I went from that big capitalism guy to seeing it with life experience, too. Yeah,

Steve: 28:27

Yeah,

Matt: 28:28

there are a lot

Steve: 28:28

just.

Matt: 28:28

of companies that

Steve: 28:29

I

Matt: 28:29

will try and

Steve: 28:29

got

Matt: 28:29

screw

Steve: 28:29

to tell you,

Matt: 28:30

you if you allow it.

Steve: 28:31

here's. Here's the one thing you can go look at. Go look at bags of potato chips nowadays. Right?

Matt: 28:36

Now.

Steve: 28:36

Right. Go look a bag of potato. They want like $6 or $8 for that. You could you put have gotten for 350 or whatever, like they have a sale and I'm not talking about the big family ones their sales I'm like the regular size two for $8 $4 apiece. Right. That used to be like a dollar 19, like it used to be whatever, maybe 299. It's like distinct. There's there's no there's no rhyme or reason why

Matt: 29:02

No.

Steve: 29:02

something like potato chips should have gone up that much. What happened was right during the pandemic, they knew they can get away with. They went up for a good reason. During the pandemic, everything

Matt: 29:13

Yep.

Steve: 29:13

became more expensive, right? All the stuff. And then they went, Hey, we're just going to leave it here. All right. Well, let's leave it there. And

Matt: 29:19

If

Steve: 29:19

there

Matt: 29:20

you can

Steve: 29:20

is

Matt: 29:20

get

Steve: 29:20

some

Matt: 29:20

the money,

Steve: 29:20

cost,

Matt: 29:20

they will.

Steve: 29:21

right? There's some cost, right? There's inflation. That's it. But anyway, that it's hit everybody hard. And that's I can't even understand, like a family of five, like you guys with a 15 year old son who's active and just sucking up calories.

Matt: 29:33

He eats at

Steve: 29:34

Right.

Matt: 29:35

like two in the morning.

Steve: 29:36

Of course.

Matt: 29:36

He constantly is telling us I had to get up. I was hungry, I

Steve: 29:39

Right.

Matt: 29:40

had to eat another meal.

Steve: 29:41

That's that's what they do at 15, you know, So it's really, really hard. It's it's it takes work. If you're somebody out there, if you're listening to this and you can identify with some of this fear base that we're talking about, it takes work to to overcome

Matt: 30:00

Yeah,

Steve: 30:01

it. And it takes diligence because it's it's one of those things that will creep up. Right. And next thing you know, like, you know, it'll creep up on you and it will creep up on you. And like I said, today, I'm a lot better, but it's still there. I mean, I still have a little bit of it, you know, probably probably more outside of things like my kids or my grandkids more than anything else. But but I can still get lost in it. I can still go down a rabbit hole thinking that my, you know, oh, my life is shit, you know, That's all I could think. Like,

Matt: 30:34

yeah.

Steve: 30:34

Oh, my life is shit. Yeah. And every day I look outside, I got a, you know, in-ground pool. I got all this stuff, but I can still look out that window go, My life is shit. You know, my mortgage is almost paid off, right? I mean, my mortgage is close. If I wanted to pay off my mortgage right now, I probably could not even I could could pay it off. But.

Matt: 30:54

You've got a living room I would kill

Steve: 30:55

Yeah,

Matt: 30:55

for. Our living

Steve: 30:56

but,

Matt: 30:57

room is cramped and you have that great room in there

Steve: 30:59

but

Matt: 31:00

that is like. That's the nicest

Steve: 31:01

yeah.

Matt: 31:01

room I've seen in anyone's house.

Steve: 31:03

It's it's a beautiful room and it's I mean, again, it's easy once you live here to forget about some of those things and it's easy to get to for me and it's one of the reasons why again well tough to talk about retreats. It's one of the reasons why I'm excited to go on this retreat, because at this point, I'm feeling like, you know something? I'm feeling like I'm in a fight with life and life is winning right now. Right. And I do. And I feel some of that. There's some challenges I have going on. I'm just not I don't feel like my life is I feel like at this point in my life, I should be feeling great. I should be excelling. I just I have lots of opportunities. I have lots of time on my hands. There's lots of things that could be doing. And I'm just not I'm not getting there. I'm not getting that feeling and not getting things done. So I'm hopeful that this retreat with some with some of the guys I really know, there's some guys on this retreat that I really like. Hopefully I have some time to sit down with them, talk to them, and and get a little straightened out with

Matt: 31:58

You

Steve: 31:58

that.

Matt: 31:58

just have to make the time.

Steve: 31:59

Yeah,

Matt: 32:00

So this is all you'll get out. What you put in a retreat

Steve: 32:03

Yeah,

Matt: 32:03

is if you want to get out of your comfort zone and do a lot of stuff with a lot of people,

Steve: 32:09

yeah.

Matt: 32:09

you'll get a lot out of it.

Steve: 32:11

Absolutely. And in the way this one is structured is

Matt: 32:14

It's.

Steve: 32:14

there's definitely a time that you could, you know, the lots of time where you can sneak off or just walk around with people. It's a beautiful facility. It's outside the camp, it's a camp around the lake, We're in cabins and stuff, so there's lots of opportunity. And you're right, I'll get I'll get out of it. What I put into it for sure.

Matt: 32:31

Mm hmm. Well, I didn't even touch the surface with this,

Steve: 32:35

No,

Matt: 32:35

but

Steve: 32:35

me neither.

Matt: 32:35

I'd love to hear what you have. And we're we get emails now. We emails of people reaching out, even people like Q who last week checked in, literally said, Ah, is everything okay with you? Is everything okay? I was looking for the podcast

Steve: 32:48

Nice

Matt: 32:48

that wasn't there, so it wasn't even like people who are looking to be entertained. It's like, Hey, you never miss.

Steve: 32:56

right?

Matt: 32:56

I want to make sure nothing's wrong. No, nothing was wrong. We I think this is like the third week we missed

Steve: 33:03

Right.

Matt: 33:03

since November 2020. So a good record. We'll get a we'll get some stuff. I usually can build up a reservoir offshore.

Steve: 33:11

Yeah.

Matt: 33:12

Shows when we have guests and there are some guests that I want to I was I'm entire the whole guest thing of booking. That is not the funnest It's time consuming.

Steve: 33:23

Yeah,

Matt: 33:24

There are some people I'd love to have on. I think that would add a lot

Steve: 33:26

yeah.

Matt: 33:27

of value.

Steve: 33:27

I got, I got some ideas that I got somebody I want to have on too. So we should probably do that. We could

Matt: 33:31

Yes.

Steve: 33:31

probably do that.

Matt: 33:31

The guy you told me about,

Steve: 33:32

Yeah,

Matt: 33:33

I would love to meet as well. And

Steve: 33:35

right.

Matt: 33:35

it just it slipped my mind.

Steve: 33:36

Yeah. Now, just and just like I said, do it and bank it. And then we

Matt: 33:40

Yeah.

Steve: 33:40

have these other ones that we can use.

Matt: 33:42

In

Steve: 33:42

Use

Matt: 33:42

case of emergency.

Steve: 33:42

every now. Yeah. All right. Matthew.

Matt: 33:45

All right. Well, everybody, we're back. We'll be back every week. And if we miss, we miss a week. It's okay. Everything's going to be okay. We're here doing this. We're in for the long term. We get a lot out of this. We feel better. I hope you are the same. And next week, we'll see you. Bye, everybody.