E172: Breaking the Cycle: From PTSD to Food & Alcohol Addiction

Join us as we delve into a candid conversation about navigating the intricate web of PTSD, food struggles, and alcoholism. In this episode, Matt shares his journey, unveiling how unrecognized PTSD intertwined with his battles with food and alcohol. From therapy revelations to weight loss endeavors, we explore the common threads linking these struggles and how they intersect with addiction behaviors. Discover insights into the parallels between alcoholism and food addiction, challenging self-talk patterns, and the quest for sustainable wellness. Whether you're grappling with similar battles or seeking to understand the intricate dynamics of addiction, this episode offers valuable perspectives and paths toward healing. Dive deep into the shared experiences of sobriety, self-discovery, and breaking free from the cycles that bind us.

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Transcript

Matt: 0:00

Today's Sober Friends podcast is brought to you by John, who purchased four coffees for us, an anonymous who purchased five coffees for us. Anonymous. And John felt it was important to support the show so that we can get the show in the ear of that next newcomer who needs some hope to show that you can do this. You can give up alcohol. You can have a sober life ahead of you. And if you think it's important to keep this show in everybody's ears, regardless of whether you have one day or 100 days of sobriety or 100 years, I think that's what I'm trying to say. You can go to buy me a coffee dot com slash sober friends pod and you can buy us a coffee. If you feel that this is important and you get value out of the program, find me a coffee dot com slash sober friends pod and bias a coffee based on the value that you have to John an anonymous. Thank you.

Open: 1:05

I'm Matt. Hey, I'm Steve. Hey. I'm John. This is the Sober Friends podcast. We're here for the Sober Curious. The new guy and the old timer. Here to talk about the stuff. Anyone looking to live alcohol free has to face day to day. How we overcame the struggles. We speak for No. 12 step group, but we do try to remain anonymous. You're not alone. This is the Sober Friends podcast.

Matt: 1:30

I just came out of a therapy session, Steve, and we talked a little bit actually about PTSD and all the years that I have been doing therapy. We have never, ever, ever, ever, ever talked about PTSD. I have a feeling we have in a way, it just wasn't labeled that. But I think she was right. I think I suffer from some of these issues. So I think it was part of the reason I drank, and it's definitely the reason I have food problems. So backing up a little bit, I'm trying to lose some weight. I'm down about £10 from probably the beginning of March. And this has to do with some sleep apnea issues. And I just want to be healthy. And I've got a target weight in mind which is it's a long way to go, but I've been able to do well tracking calories and stuff.

Steve: 2:28

Okay,

Matt: 2:29

But I'm also I was I was talking to her because I was concerned with being able to keep weight off, which I'm good at losing weight. I'm not good at keeping it off. And I eat alcoholics. So I've got to address

Steve: 2:43

Right?

Matt: 2:43

these issues. And so I kind of wanted to talk a little bit there and I can kind of weave that way through, although we're talking food. I think this does relate to alcoholism for the reasons that we drink. We've talked food before, I

Steve: 2:59

Absolutely.

Matt: 2:59

think, quite a few times.

Steve: 3:00

Yep. I think we're talking behaviors, right? I mean,

Matt: 3:05

Yes.

Steve: 3:06

and I know that the you know, it's more it's more relaxed than it used to be. And it's more accepting that. It used to be that we can talk about different behaviors in our 12 step program.

Matt: 3:22

Mm hmm.

Steve: 3:23

But there's no question in my mind that I do lots of things, if you will, alcoholics.

Matt: 3:33

Mm hmm.

Steve: 3:33

Right. Sort of addiction wise. And I think that's just a status of my brain and my make up. And I and we've talked about this, too, and I don't really know and care all that much. I care a little bit because I have children, whether it's a does a genetic component to it. But I too, eat alcoholics. There's no question about it. I do lots of things, alcoholics. I do lots of things which have the same pattern of behavior. And now for me, I'll just talk about this a little bit, is that, you know, when I drank, I was a closet drinker. I drank. Most of my drinking was done alone and in private and out of everyone's out of everyone's eye view. And when I'm eating poorly, I eat that way, too.

Matt: 4:18

Yep.

Steve: 4:19

Right. I won't eat in front of not even my wife. I I'll do all my bad, my really bad eating out of sight. It's the exact same behavior. So there is no question about it that, you know, our 12 step program and there's a oh, all writers on Overeaters Anonymous does a 12 step program

Matt: 4:39

Mm

Steve: 4:39

and

Matt: 4:39

hmm.

Steve: 4:40

a lot of these foster programs, they are based around the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. They take them with permission and they make them work for their for their addiction. so it's out there and I have I've gone to those meetings, I've been on those calls. I certainly feel like I have that problem. I have the books for that fellowship, too, right behind me in my bookcase. So I identify in that I don't work that program. I don't know. It just wasn't working for me, wasn't feeling right at the time. But I certainly qualify for that program. So there's no question. So if you're out there and you're wondering how this how this might impact your your drinking, I think if you give it a listen, you'll find out that a lot of these behaviors, a lot of the thought processes, a lot of these things like Matt's talking about, they're the PTSD, all of those things might play into your mental health, which will push you down the path of abusing some type of substance. You know, and that's what we're talking about

Matt: 5:43

The name of the show is is sober friends purposely because that term is sober. I this is not an AA podcast. This is

Steve: 5:52

right?

Matt: 5:52

not. Although our issue is alcoholism. To me, it's all the same. I never understood in a 12 step meeting why people got all types of angry when people were talking about other things. Because I don't think it matters that much. It's you're using a substance to feel better about something else that's going on. And for me, food is the same

Steve: 6:20

Mm

Matt: 6:20

thing. I don't

Steve: 6:21

hmm.

Matt: 6:21

always feel sober with my food choices.

Steve: 6:25

Right.

Matt: 6:25

It's a lot harder because you can't just eliminate food. I still got to eat and

Steve: 6:33

Yeah.

Matt: 6:33

I struggle with just saying, okay, I'm never going to eat ice cream. That's not how we would do booze. I'm not going to eat. I'm not going to drink today. It should be I'm not going to eat ice cream today.

Steve: 6:44

Right.

Matt: 6:44

But but that's the big difference. I still got to eat.

Steve: 6:47

Mm hmm. Yeah, it is different, but the principles do remain the same. Right.

Matt: 6:54

Oh,

Steve: 6:54

And

Matt: 6:54

I

Steve: 6:54

just

Matt: 6:54

agree.

Steve: 6:54

like you said, and just like you said, you don't have to give up by screwing for the rest of your life.

Matt: 6:59

Yeah.

Steve: 7:00

But you may not want to eat ice cream today. Listen, I've done the whole thing. I've talk. We've talked about food on this podcast several times,

Matt: 7:08

Yeah,

Steve: 7:08

and we've talked about sugar addiction, whic I do believe some people don't believe. You can be addicted to sugar. I

Matt: 7:15

I.

Steve: 7:15

do.

Matt: 7:16

Did, too.

Steve: 7:16

I do because I know that once I remove it out of my out of my body, once I remove it out of my diet, then I no longer crave it. Right. Which is the same thing with alcohol. It really is. It's the same thing. When I took alcohol out of my regular intake and once I got past that, that mental obsession, I no longer crave alcohol. I still have a mental obsession that can be triggered about it. But a physical the physical part. Another sugar works exactly the same way. When I eliminate sugar, I don't want it. I could walk past it. I could look at it. You could have whatever you want. You could eat it in front of me. And it doesn't bother you. But as soon as I put it in my body, as soon as I start eating it again, eventually. And it doesn't always happen, just like it doesn't happen fast. Eventually I somewhere down the road I struggle with it and I have to go through and I'm in one of those patterns right now where I have to get to a certain point where I'm disgusted with myself and get back on the wagon. Right. And that's where it goes.

Matt: 8:20

Just so this was something that we talked about in therapy, those bad self-talk words.

Steve: 8:27

Yeah,

Matt: 8:27

And I'm disgusted with myself. That's a bad word.

Steve: 8:31

it is.

Matt: 8:32

I use the I'm going to get fat, I'm going to feel fat. And she goes, Do you hear yourself? That's a terrible word. Maybe you're concerned with being overweight, but you're talking yourself down about being fat. And I do it all the time.

Steve: 8:48

Yeah,

Matt: 8:48

I would eat a bowl, ice cream. I go up to my wife and I'm like, I feel terrible. I'm going to get fat. I'm going to get fat now because I had that bowl ice cream. That's that's a really bad mental place to be. This this the circle that's very much like using alcohol. I've had a beer. Now I feel bad, which is going to cause me to have another beer and I can't get out of the loop.

Steve: 9:11

right.

Matt: 9:13

Although I

Steve: 9:13

Yeah,

Matt: 9:13

can get rid of alcohol, I can't get rid of food.

Steve: 9:16

right. And it's hard. It's a very hard thing. And I think what your therapist says is true, right? It is some of that really, really bad self-talk. Listen, I was out walking the dog today and I can and I feel that I'm like, you know what? I just feel like unhealthy. I feel the same thing. Trust me, I've done the diets. I've gotten down really, I' gotten down to weights. I couldn't believe I could get down to this part of my life at this point in my life. And it's just like, You mean, it's like isn't It's not just like you. It's. It's what the problem is, right? We can lose weight. We can't keep weight

Matt: 9:51

Mm

Steve: 9:51

off. Right.

Matt: 9:51

hmm.

Steve: 9:51

you and everybody else in the world. And so it is that bad self-talk and, and here's one of the funny things and again we've talked about this I want to say a meeting because that's where I see a lot of people and I see people who are way bigger than I am, weight

Matt: 10:10

Yeah.

Steve: 10:10

like heavier and they seem, they seem and again, this is the same thing we did when we drank, right? We were comparing our insides to other people's outsides.

Matt: 10:22

Yup.

Steve: 10:24

I look at them and they seem to be very comfortable in their own skin and they're like, Man, I can't. I can't. I don't feel right, right this shirt, you know? So it's really is it's it's a challenge. It's a challenge. You know, just I was following this guy. Matter of fact, I haven't seen anything come across on social media and he's a therapist. He's a guy and he'll do a couple of things. I'm sure he's because he's all over all the social media. I don't recall his name right now, but one thing he and he's a fairly young guy, really good shape. You could see him and he talked about this issue that we're talking about and he talked about being self-critical, about how he looked. And he would say he would put on a shirt and he was like, oh, and it happened to me all the time when he said this, I'm like, oh, I know exactly what he's talking about. And it feels uncomfortable. Maybe it's a little bit too tight, maybe it doesn't look right, doesn't feel right, doesn't feel right, He says, I no longer allow myself to make that decision. I've outsourced that to my wife, he says, and he'll go up to his wife to say, Hey, does this shirt look okay on me? Can I go out of the house with this shirt on? And if he says, Oh, yeah, look, fine, then I'm okay, right? I don't have to do that anymore. But when he talked about that, I know exactly what that feeling is. Putting on a piece of clothing and thinking, Oh, my God, I can't stand how this feels on me. And again, it's that same mental anguish that we would go through. Now, I'm convinced to that because I felt that way about my own body. I drank more. I don't think there's any question right.

Matt: 12:03

Yup.

Steve: 12:04

Like I was always fighting myself. So I would use alcohol to not feel that way. So when I, you know, or, you know, so it's a very, very dangerous and vicious circle.

Matt: 12:16

Alcohol and food for me were always intertwined

Steve: 12:19

Yeah. Yeah,

Matt: 12:21

when I had those moments where I felt most disgusted about my weight. I remember a lot of those times when I was drunk, so

Steve: 12:29

yeah,

Matt: 12:30

the feeling not good about my weight made me drink. So these two are intertwined, and if I go to the 12 step, step one admitted we are powerless over alcohol. Our lives have become unmanageable. I think I'm at that place. A step one, I admitted. I'm powerless over food. My life has become unmanageable. Here's how it's unmanageable and here's why I've gotten to the place where I would like to lose weight, that I'm willing to do whatever is possible to lose weight. I was recently diagnosed with sleep apnea. If you have sleep apnea. Weight can be a contributing cause. It's not necessarily always the reason, but it will always help you to lose weight. And now that I know that there are some things that I can do, I don't want to feel tired anymore. I'm tired of feeling tired all the time. And I thought I had to live with it and now I don't. And if you address sleep apnea, a lot of things can be you have more energy for exercise and you may not make emotional food decisions. So

Steve: 13:38

yeah, yeah.

Matt: 13:38

if you have untreated sleep apnea, it can keep you fat. If you treat it, it can take the weight off. But do I wait to lose weight until I'm being treated? It's a catch 22. I've decided I want to do something about it. And one of the other things that I can do to take control of this situation is using an app to count my calories. This has been very successful for me now because it's not just the case of I'm on South Beach, I'm just not going to eat carbs. It's I'm going to measure what I eat and track the calories in the app makes it very easy to the point where I can scan barcodes. But it makes me think that every time I eat, I've got to think about it.

Steve: 14:23

Right.

Matt: 14:24

Do I want to scan a bag of Cheetos?

Steve: 14:28

Yeah,

Matt: 14:28

I can't go and just eat mindlessly. I got to think about what I'm eating now. The thing that frees it is if I want to go out for Dairy Queen and I've been pretty good this week or have been pretty good for the day and I have calories to use, I can do that

Steve: 14:43

right.

Matt: 14:44

and I don't have to feel bad.

Steve: 14:47

Yeah.

Matt: 14:47

That's helpful.

Steve: 14:50

There's lots of just lots of pro I've done, I've done most of the major diets that you can think of, like if off the top of your head you started going from Weight Watchers to on noom. Noom.

Matt: 15:07

Now, you

Steve: 15:07

I

Matt: 15:07

did

Steve: 15:07

forget.

Matt: 15:07

Noom. We've talked

Steve: 15:08

Yeah.

Matt: 15:08

about noom.

Steve: 15:09

Right. I just went blank as well. Like, is that the right name?

Matt: 15:12

Yeah.

Steve: 15:13

Noom. I've done some local stuff with some local doctor programs and all of them and I say this before they all work as long as you work them,

Matt: 15:26

Yeah,

Steve: 15:26

just like our 12 steps, right? They all work as long as you work them. And once you stop working them, they won't work anymore. And I also did one of the apps out there, same thing. I tracked all my food. And you're absolutely right. Like if if you track your food, you're more likely to to make good decisions because you just won't be done. I mean, listen, if you're going to if you're going to eat poorly and you start, you know, and you look at it and all of a sudden, you know, you're trying to eat whatever it is, 2500 calories, whatever it might be you're trying to do. And you eat 4000 calories in a day. It's going to be right there in front of you.

Matt: 16:02

right.

Steve: 16:02

So it's a great way to do it. Now, it does require work. It does require a bunch of work. And some of that is upfront work. What I found that when I when I was using an app like that, I had sort of prepared meals for the most part, right? So I was able to a click on those meals. I'm like, Oh, this is what I'm going to eat tonight. Click boom, done, you know, Whereas maybe the type of vegetable wouldn't make a huge difference in my meal if I was having broccoli instead of, you know, string beans or something like that. Not a huge difference. So there is some work to be done. So they're they can be very helpful. And again, we talk about this in our in our program, too. There's apps out there for your drinking now. Right. There's

Matt: 16:45

Mm

Steve: 16:45

there's

Matt: 16:45

hmm.

Steve: 16:45

lots of different things you could be doing for alcohol, which is the same way I don't know those type of apps. I never used them, but I know they're out there. I know people use them. So it's a new world. It's a new world out there. And, you know, it's going to it's going to be very interesting as we move forward how these things will go

Matt: 17:08

I either put all my money on eating right or exercise,

Steve: 17:14

right.

Matt: 17:14

or if I'm exercising enough, I can eat whatever I want and the reality of my situation. Exercise is important for my body independent of the food. And it does give me a pad each day. It's not the thing that is going to make or break my weight, and if I'm not eating properly, I'm not going to get the most out of my exercise because I'm going to run out of gas. So I have to have a balanced plan and I have to be purposeful about everything. I've got to be purposeful when I go to the gym. What are the things that I need to do? There are days I need to lift weights because that drives hormones and it builds muscle. And muscle helps you when you do your aerobic workouts to be more efficient. All of those things are important. I have been working on getting my vote. VO2 max up and having an Apple Watch has been very helpful because I can track all this stuff

Steve: 18:14

Right.

Matt: 18:14

that is very helpful. It's a realization that I'm not going to keep my weight at a healthy place until I address the stuff in my mind and realizing today that there are these terrible freezes that I'm using for myself are not helpful. And I was told as a kid by my grandparents, by family, that your fat

Steve: 18:43

Yeah.

Matt: 18:44

over and over again. And that's where she said you've got some PTSD around this. And I never I never thought of it that way. But she's right. It's a bit, you know, food would make me feel better and yeah, I would be punished for it because I've never understood how to do this right.

Steve: 19:03

Yeah. You know, it's coming back to me. We somehow we got on the subject on one of our recent podcasts and recent I mean, within the last few months, because I remember us talking about it. And it's funny that you say that because, you know, I have some real trauma around my body image.

Matt: 19:23

Mm hmm.

Steve: 19:23

And I've talked about this before, know when I was a freshman in high school, think about that freshman in high school. So I was 14 years old, just into a high school, a whole bunch of people I did not know. All right. And anybody, any of the kids who any of the fat kids, which I was one of them, would get called down to the nurse's office, would be taken out of class and and called down to the nurse's office. And they would get weighed in it. Right. And they would talk to you about

Matt: 19:54

Yes.

Steve: 19:54

eating healthy and exercise and stuff like that. All right. Like, I still remember that at 60, almost 66 years old being pulled out of class. Talk about trauma. All right?

Matt: 20:07

Right,

Steve: 20:08

Talk about bad body image.

Matt: 20:10

Right.

Steve: 20:11

And again, these people did it with the best intentions, like trying to encourage me. And the truth is. Right. I mean, it was shortly after that, right at that time that that 14 and then 15, I started to lose weight partly maybe I don't know if because of that, but because I started being interested in girls and stuff like that.

Matt: 20:29

Yeah.

Steve: 20:29

So I started, you know, taking care of myself better. I started exercising and all those things that go along with that. But man, you know, when you brought that back, it just hit me like, yeah, you know, I'm sure I could sit down with a therapist and tell her that story. They're going to say, Oh, wow, you've got some issues, you know, that go way back with that. And you know, and everything from my parent, my mother buying me, going to JCPenney when I was younger, they had a an area of clothes called Husky.

Matt: 21:03

Hey.

Steve: 21:03

All right. You go to the husky section for my clothes, Right. You know, so, man, those are the things that I lived with for my child. Right? So and here I am at almost 66 years old, and I still struggle with the same stuff. So it just shows you that it's out there. You know, they talk about these new drugs out there that are that are helping. And I just saw a thing on social media where a doctor said this just proves that it's a disease. Right. If it could be

Matt: 21:31

Yeah.

Steve: 21:31

if it could be treated with a drug and it can make it better, then that's just proof it's a disease. And not just like our just like our problem. Not a lack of willpower. Right. Because that's the same thing that we've been we were beat over the head with in Alcoholics Anonymous. No, it's not your willpower. That's a problem if you have a disease. And I think now they're starting to realize that for some people it's the same way with with food, you know, with food, addictions in the same manner.

Matt: 22:04

My doctor tried to prescribe Wegovy for me, but my

Steve: 22:08

Okay.

Matt: 22:09

insurance doesn't cover it,

Steve: 22:10

All right.

Matt: 22:11

so I could pay $1,000 out of pocket like

Steve: 22:13

Right,

Matt: 22:13

the the ladies of the Upper East Side of Manhattan do. But I don't have that extra thousand dollars a month. I do believe there's going to come a time very shortly where it comes down in price and insurance companies look at that and say, we are saving money by paying

Steve: 22:33

Right.

Matt: 22:34

for this.

Steve: 22:35

Yeah, absolutely

Matt: 22:36

And we did a whole episode on Ozempic, which is the same drug as Wegovy Ozempic. There are a bunch of different names that there are much like it goes back to alcohol, that there are some studies that show that GLP one drugs can help people stop either reduce their drinking or stop it. It has helped people with compulsion to shop. And for me, the commonality between food and alcohol is a compulsion. I am compulsive in my shopping. I have to be very careful out shopping. And I have heard that those type of compulsions kind of get nipped in the bud when you're on a GLP one and the moment you stop taking them, they all come back. It's not the cure. You have to be on it for the rest of your life if it's going to be used, which does go into that idea that overeating is some type of disease. And as we're talking through this, there is a whole industry around dieting that doesn't seem to work.

Steve: 23:51

right. It doesn't work. So we talked about it does work. You know, when you when you me just it's like, you know, again, we come back to the 12 step. It's a change of lifestyle. And it's really hard to figure, like you said, because we do want to go, you know, we do what we have to eat, We do want to go out and eat. We want to do certain things. But it is a change of lifestyle that that you just have to embrace. And I've been Allison, I've been unable to do it. So, you know, it's something that we we have to acknowledge is there like I said, the the, the issues with it, the, you know, the things that that make us alcoholic also can make us struggle in lots of areas in our

Matt: 24:44

Yeah,

Steve: 24:44

life. You know. So, yeah, it's a it's an ongoing, ongoing battle for many of us.

Matt: 24:53

I'll tell you, the thing that really pisses me off

Steve: 24:55

What's that.

Matt: 24:56

is the people who like post online, I quit drinking and they're like £400 and they quit drinking. They've been off alcohol for two years and now they're 120.

Open: 25:10

I want to fight you.

Steve: 25:11

Yeah,

Matt: 25:11

That's how I feel.

Steve: 25:11

right. Yeah, right,

Matt: 25:13

How the hell does that work for you? And it doesn't work for me.

Steve: 25:15

right. Yeah. For some people has worked that way that they're able to fix it all.

Matt: 25:22

God bless you.

Steve: 25:24

You got me. If that's, if that's who you are. God bless you. But you know something, And this is the thing we talk about, and I'm sure this is what your therapist is trying to work with you on, is trying to have some serenity in

Matt: 25:36

Yeah.

Steve: 25:36

our lives. Right. And regardless, and I struggle with that, Right? I mean, I really do. It's one of the things I struggle with having serenity not based upon body image. And and my whole thing is not so much body image. And I won't say zero because it's not that there is a I do have some body image issues and about how I want to look, but mine is exactly is really more about how I want to feel and what I want to do,

Matt: 26:02

Mm hmm.

Steve: 26:03

which, you know, we talked about hiking on this. We talk about how much I like to hike and it's like right now I'm not capable of hiking in the manner that I'd like to hike, right? So I need to do a lot of changes and to change my diet. I need to exercise more. I need to do a lot of things in order for me to get there. That's more about how I feel than how I look. But there still is an aspect of I want to look a certain way to.

Matt: 26:28

Yeah. I want to be able to go and hike. That's one of the reasons I haven't tried to do that, is I know I'll be gassed. I've been tracking my VO2 max, so I'm at a low level of fitness. That means I'm below the below average. I am just happy to get to below average in I am 0.9 away from being below average and I would be so happy to be below average at this point.

Steve: 26:55

Yeah.

Matt: 26:55

I'm working on it and I think as I take some weight off it will be easier. My fitness will go up because I'm not lugging along that extra

Steve: 27:05

Mm hmm.

Matt: 27:05

weight. But yeah, I want to be able to do some of those fitness things and I'm not capable of doing that. I can't go out for a run with my son.

Steve: 27:15

Yeah.

Matt: 27:15

He kicked my ass.

Steve: 27:17

Yeah, right.

Matt: 27:18

I'm not capable of that. But if I get the weight down and I can find a way to change my thought behaviors, then I'm closer to being able to do those things. And those are things that are going to be better in my life.

Steve: 27:33

Yep. Absolutely.

Matt: 27:34

That's why we quit drinking. Hey, if this does resonate with you, we'd love to hear from you. I did hear from you from last week's show, so you can reach out Matt at Sober Friends podcast. Give us a call or a follow on Instagram at Sober Friends Pod. And I think that's all I got the plug tonight. That's the energy. I have the plug I have not felt well all week, and I am just about to turn that corner. I'm starting to feel better, but I have no S's to give right now because I haven't been feeling well. So I'm. I'm. I've been better. I like the fact that I am sitting upright doing this is a good thing.

Steve: 28:21

Mm hmm.

Matt: 28:21

I'm good. I'm good with good enough right now.

Steve: 28:24

Good. With good enough. That's a nice way to end

Matt: 28:27

Yep. All right, we're ending it here. But guess what? We'll see you next week by everybody.