E175: Managing Change

Change is so hard.  I've heard of people saying they love change.  I've also heard of people stop drinking after their beverage was only half drunk.  I could never understand either.  In this episode, we talk about change, why it's hard and how we got through it through our program of recovery.  Are you someone who has challenges with change?  We have lots of tools for you in this engaging episode.

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Transcript

Matt: 0:25

I was feeling bad this morning, Steve, because I've been getting on the scale every day to track my weight

Steve: 0:30

one.

Matt: 0:31

because I am trying to lose some weight. And from yesterday to today, I gained £3. But I'm also looking at myself on screen, and I'm like, Oh, my face looks better, actually. So maybe it's

Steve: 0:42

Yeah.

Matt: 0:43

just whatever it was

Steve: 0:46

Yeah. It's that's the scale. The scale giveth and the scale taketh away.

Matt: 0:50

and we went for ice cream last night and everything, and I felt less guilty than I normally did because I'm

Steve: 0:56

all

Matt: 0:56

counting my calories and I'm like, I have

Steve: 0:57

right.

Matt: 0:58

the calories for this.

Steve: 0:59

Right.

Matt: 0:59

I can do this.

Steve: 1:01

Yeah. Don't. Don't pay. Yeah, it's It's like. I mean, it's like. It's like the stock market. Right.

Matt: 1:07

Mm hmm.

Steve: 1:07

It. It continues to go up, but doesn't mean it goes up every day. Up and down, up and down. And you watch the trajectory over it. Trust me, as someone who's done this stuff day in and day out, the point was like, I just it would drive me nuts sometimes, right? Like, I would be like, what the hell is going on? Yeah. It's something that you use it as a guide, but don't get too crazy about it. A lot of that's just water weight. Depending on what you eat, depending on things like, you know, like you just retaining a little bit more water and

Matt: 1:36

Oh, it could

Steve: 1:36

you look

Matt: 1:37

very

Steve: 1:37

at

Matt: 1:37

well

Steve: 1:37

it.

Matt: 1:37

be the ice cream, too. Ice cream has a

Steve: 1:38

Right.

Matt: 1:38

lot of salt in it.

Steve: 1:40

Right. So I mean, so that kind of stuff. But hanging in

Matt: 1:42

Yeah.

Steve: 1:42

there,

Matt: 1:43

Looking

Steve: 1:43

like

Matt: 1:43

at my

Steve: 1:43

I said.

Matt: 1:43

face, I'm like, I. I'm

Steve: 1:44

Right.

Matt: 1:45

happy with how that looks right now. This is good.

Steve: 1:47

Yeah,

Matt: 1:48

That's a change. I'm change. I'm trying to change how I feel. And how I relate to food. I'm on night two of CPAP. I have been screaming about this the last few episodes. My nose feels like it has had like sandpaper that I was blowing

Steve: 2:03

yeah,

Matt: 2:04

my nose with

Steve: 2:04

yeah.

Matt: 2:05

for like month. It just

Steve: 2:07

Well,

Matt: 2:07

it is it is very sore. It is. I didn't know what I was getting into with this. I thought it would be helpful. I will tell you this, here's a change on the weekend. I got up right away at seven. Usually it's it's

Steve: 2:22

yeah,

Matt: 2:22

a hell of a time getting up. I monitor my sleep on my apple watch. This is the last two days. I got up right at seven. There was no ability to go back to sleep. I was ready to

Steve: 2:33

right.

Matt: 2:33

go. So I am. If you have used CPAP before, I'm sure that you can relate of the thing I didn't expect. As you move in, you kind of hit that mask and it kind of wakes you up because you're not used to having something on your face, even with this thing being pretty comfortable.

Steve: 2:53

Yeah,

Matt: 2:53

But I'm also a perfectionist that, you know, am I getting a proper seal? Is it leaking? So I've got the mental things going on that I got to let go of. But this all ties into our topic today, which is change. How do you deal with change, change in life? What are the effects? Because there's always downstream impacts for me with change.

Steve: 3:15

yeah. You know, their change is interesting because there's change in our own lives like you're going through, right? You're trying to do some things, and then there's change in lives that we don't have control over, which is other people within our orbit.

Matt: 3:30

Mm

Steve: 3:30

Right.

Matt: 3:30

hmm.

Steve: 3:30

Those things change, too. So it is a constant. It is a constant, um, thing that's going to happen. You know, I heard something that, you know, so I love meetings. I go to meetings, I heard something. And again, it's nothing new, but I heard a guy, our buddy Andrew, you know, Andrew

Matt: 3:48

Mm hmm.

Steve: 3:50

said he goes, When I came to AA to get sober, I wasn't promised a great life. I was promised the tools that could help me negotiate my life the way it was. And I thought that was just a perfect statement. Right. And I think I think that's a little bit of a misconception that people they get sober and they wonder why the world is still, you know, their world or the world around them is still messed up and the change is still happens. And that's the beauty of our program is that we can go through changes like you can go through the stuff, right? The crap. We were talking about it before

Matt: 4:28

Mm hmm.

Steve: 4:28

we came on the air. My wife uses one when I go on retreat with the guys, especially, you know, a lot of the guys on retreat are older. They use, um, I tell you, people love them. People love their CPAP. All the guys I know, like they they wouldn't travel without it. And so I think once you get used to, hopefully you'll find that same comfort. Listen, I get you going from sleeping with nothing to sleeping with this mask on your face and something up your nose,

Matt: 4:55

Yep.

Steve: 4:55

you know. So it's going to take some time to get used to it. And that's the beauty of our program, is that you have tools like if you get frustrated, if you get, you know, uncomfortable with these things, you can figure it out without getting too crazy, hopefully. Right. Again, we're human beings, so hopefully you can figure it out and you can work your way through it without getting too.

Matt: 5:19

One of the sayings or thought processes in AA that will help me with this is acceptance. And I will tell you, when I first got it and I hooked it up, it finally hit me that at 48 years old, how many years I have left on the planet, I'm going to

Steve: 5:36

MM

Matt: 5:37

have to use this machine like it's likely I'm going to have to use this machine for the rest of my life. And that's a pivot point of going from all these years of unassisted sleeping to now needing assistance when I sleep. And that this is this is a permanent thing. If you do it right, this is a permanent thing. And that was unsettling for me at first. I'm willing to accept it, but it was unsettling that this is a major change in my life. On the other hand, I think about some of the alcoholics that I admire who said I have lost the I don't know if it's the permission or the ability to drink safely or the I'm trying to think of the terminology that I've used. They no longer have it's either permission or you get the idea. I don't I

Steve: 6:32

Yeah,

Matt: 6:32

don't have

Steve: 6:33

but

Matt: 6:33

permission anymore to drink.

Steve: 6:35

yeah, I use that all the time. I ability, I've lost

Matt: 6:39

That's

Steve: 6:39

the ability

Matt: 6:39

what I'm looking

Steve: 6:40

to drink

Matt: 6:40

for.

Steve: 6:41

I, that's what I say. If people ask me I've lost the ability to drink safely or properly, like I use those things all the time like no I can't do that because I just and sometimes I'll say privilege too, you know. But you know, one of the things you're talking about is just what you see, Pop. And then we were talking about how you're working to get, you know, you're going to jam, you're watching, counting calories.

Matt: 7:03

Mm hmm.

Steve: 7:04

You're saying you look pretty good. You may find that as you lose weight, depending on how you do it, that that that may be you know, you won't need the CPAP and we'll see. But I'm saying but that that's you know, one of the things that again, my wife used it my wife had lost a lot of weight at one point and literally was told she no longer needed it. You know, So, listen, change your stuff. You know, I was thinking about before we came on is that, you know, we talked about our friend Monday. I, I told you about it. But Don, from the Thursday night

Matt: 7:43

Mm

Steve: 7:43

meeting,

Matt: 7:43

hmm.

Steve: 7:44

Don passed away. I don't know

Matt: 7:46

I didn't know

Steve: 7:46

if

Matt: 7:46

he

Steve: 7:46

you

Matt: 7:46

passed

Steve: 7:46

know.

Matt: 7:46

away, but

Steve: 7:47

Yeah, he passed. He was in really bad

Matt: 7:49

it's.

Steve: 7:49

shape, Don, for those.

Matt: 7:50

It's the best

Steve: 7:51

Those

Matt: 7:51

outcome for his situation.

Steve: 7:52

it is. Don had a stroke. He's a guy who goes to a men's meeting that Matt and I both attended. We I knew him a little bit. I knew who he was. I sat with him, but I didn't I didn't have a relationship with him. But I know a lot of guys from that meeting and he literally had a stroke at that meeting and he was not in good shape and I don't know the circumstances, but he passed Friday, Friday night about 10:00 and we got that message again. John and I were going hiking and he got a text message in the morning saying that Don had passed. But again, that's a you know, we were talking about this changes within our own self and those changes that we don't have of our life, we don't have control over. Right. Such as the death of a

Matt: 8:36

Mm hmm.

Steve: 8:36

spouse or spouse or a father or a brother or close friends or a wife or a husband. Right. Those are like, how do we deal with those changes in our life? Right? How do we deal with that? The to think that to think that early on when I was drinking if if anything like that happened, my first thought would be to get a drink. I'm not even kidding. I had that happen to me once and, you know, got some really bad news and got some unexpected news. And a friend came up to me and told me this and I said, I think I need a drink. And she wasn't a drinker like she was. She had a little bit of a partier and she's like, and she was it. And I was in my twenties at this point. She's like, Oh, why would you say right? Because that's how I dealt with stuff.

Matt: 9:34

Mm hmm.

Steve: 9:34

You know, I think I need to go get a drink, you know, And today I don't number one, I don't have that option, right, because I can't drink safely. So number two, I have to figure out other ways to deal with it. And in our program, we're giving you know, people use it information maybe sound corny stuff. People talk about their toolbox, the tools that use the things, but this is what we're talking about. So what happens in this situation and and what are your tools like what are your options to do when these things happen? And I know for me, the biggest thing is, is to pick up the phone, talk to another alcoholic,

Matt: 10:14

Yep.

Steve: 10:14

or go to a meeting and talk to another alcohol alcoholic in person. Right. But for me, it's an interaction with another alcoholic. That's that's really where I end up going. My wife can handle help me with some of that stuff, but not all of it, Right. I mean, so sometimes I just need to go to who understands what's happening in my head from an alcoholics point of view, not just from the human point, a husband, but from an alcoholics point of view, to really make sure I'm in the right spot so that so I don't slip.

Matt: 10:48

Mm hmm.

Steve: 10:49

That's also I don't drink, you know what I mean? So I don't think that that's an option for me and it's not to I don't think that. But I'm always on guard for, you know, I'm always working, making sure that when some of these changes happen, um, I have somewhere go with it.

Matt: 11:05

You may ask yourself, why do these guys drift off to non-alcoholic stuff? And here's why. Alcoholism was just a symptom of everything else going in our life. And it was a tool to get through those things. And now we don't have that. So we have to change what we use as a coping mechanism. There are meetings that were tough for me to go to another another meeting or two that was tough for me to go to because there was somebody else at that meeting who I was close to who passed away. And I think about going to that Thursday night meeting now, which will be tougher because

Steve: 11:42

Yeah.

Matt: 11:43

Don was the first guy who would get up with a big smile and a bounce in his step to say hello to me. How are you doing? How is the family? A big hug that he was always that first guy. Pull the chair out, come sit down. And that type of generosity with themselves is important to me. And that meeting won't be the same. Now,

Steve: 12:08

Yeah,

Matt: 12:08

meetings change, people change, people pass. The longer you get into sobriety, you'll see that change, that the people you came in with that were the old timers go away. They leave us over time and you have to accept that. And you can't just chip, send something to me that keep making friends in AA because you just don't want to rely on just those people when they they leave us. And that's right. But that's hard because

Steve: 12:38

yeah,

Matt: 12:38

that's a big change of those people you rely on. Eventually they move or they pass away.

Steve: 12:47

yeah. It's, it, it is tough. I mean, especially when you have really close relationships. One of the things that when you when you're talking about that and you're talking about Don, like I said, I didn't know. It's funny because he would sit with our buddy John usually at that table.

Matt: 13:00

Mm hmm.

Steve: 13:00

So a lot of times I come in, if there was a chair available, I'd sit with that table. So and he would always say hi. And actually he got to a point where he would say, Hi, Steve, even though I don't go right, like he would remember my

Matt: 13:10

Mm

Steve: 13:10

name,

Matt: 13:10

hmm.

Steve: 13:11

you know, and, and I think about our buddy Tim, who who sponsor went to that meeting.

Matt: 13:19

Mm

Steve: 13:19

Right.

Matt: 13:20

hmm.

Steve: 13:20

And I remember when his sponsor died was just a few years ago. Like that loss to him was huge. You know, that lost too to tip to our buddy Timmy was huge because Timmy talks about all the time. He goes, only one person knows all of my shit, right? That's what he used to talk

Matt: 13:37

Mm

Steve: 13:37

about.

Matt: 13:37

hmm.

Steve: 13:37

Only one person knows it all. And that was sponsor. Right. And so, you know, when you lose something like that, that's a big loss. And that's why it's important to be connected. It's important to be connected with multiple, you know, you know, with multiple avenues of of support so that when that happens, you know, you have other people. And that's a nice thing about, you know, you and me and a lot of us. Right. Go into these men's meetings. And if you're a woman gone to a woman's meeting where you can really connect with some of those people, you can really connect and get the help you need because that easy change isn't easy for anybody. It's not

Matt: 14:22

Right.

Steve: 14:22

easy for the normal average person with no huge character defects or addictions of any type. And then you throw these huge character defects on top of it and that many of us struggle with, and you throw addictions on top of it and it's really, really messy at times. And listen, you know, I've had a lot of kind of lost lots of people in sobriety recently. One of I'm one of six children and I've lost three siblings. Okay. And the oldest was 66, Right. So the young did dying young in my family.

Matt: 14:58

Mm hmm.

Steve: 15:00

And, you know, both my mom and dad are gone and stuff like that. So, you know what? The thing I realize is that I have I don't have to drink over it. I don't need to get crazy over it. I don't need to be pissed off over it. You're right. Things change. People die. And and we have to accept that and do the best we can with it and and move on.

Matt: 15:23

It's important for me not to be a spinster with cats all over me when I'm old screaming

Steve: 15:30

Yeah,

Matt: 15:30

about the good old days.

Steve: 15:32

right.

Matt: 15:32

And part of that is

Steve: 15:33

Yeah,

Matt: 15:33

changing with the times, meeting new people, building new relationships. I went into the office for the first time this week in four years. I am part of an employee resource Group Unidos, which

Steve: 15:48

right,

Matt: 15:48

celebrates Hispanic heritage. I'm an ally in this group, and it was part of the region that oversees Boston, even though I don't live out there. But the region that I live in and the region out in Boston merged. And I'm the only guy from the western part of New England that is part of that group. So I went to to support the group because it was our diversity and inclusion day and I was really nervous going into the office because I hadn't been

Steve: 16:22

Yeah,

Matt: 16:22

to this office in. So we went home four years ago, but it's probably been logged and cemented that office because it's the local headquarters. I didn't go there all the time. It's a bit of a bit of a hike and I was nervous going in and they had, you know, do you know where the conference room is? And I had to think for a second. I'm like, You're going to point me in the right direction. And

Steve: 16:42

yeah,

Matt: 16:42

I surprised myself going up to see people I hadn't seen in a while because that's not my normal nature. But if there was somebody I knew, I got up, I shook their hand or I had a conversation, and I was surprised that people remembered me. This has a lot to do with my own self-worth issues, but being remembered and being valued and being have people happy to see me. It's a big change that I was forward like that in talking to people and I it was it was I was surprised how emotional was and I was surprised how much I enjoyed it. I realized I don't mind going back into the office if I can go whenever I want and leave whenever I want. It's

Steve: 17:28

right.

Matt: 17:29

probably about three times a year. It's about my max.

Steve: 17:33

It's like. It's like have a grandchildren,

Matt: 17:35

Yeah,

Steve: 17:37

right? You know, you don't have to live with them every day, but, you know, one of the things I thought about as you were talking is that you don't have a problem in AA meetings going up and talking to people, whether they're new or not. Right. I see you all the time. You come

Matt: 17:51

You

Steve: 17:51

in, you

Matt: 17:52

would

Steve: 17:52

shake

Matt: 17:52

be

Steve: 17:52

and

Matt: 17:52

surprised

Steve: 17:52

hi.

Matt: 17:53

that it sometimes it takes a lot of effort, but I do it because it's what I should

Steve: 17:57

Right.

Matt: 17:57

do.

Steve: 17:58

My point is, I think that has helped you in

Matt: 18:01

Yes.

Steve: 18:01

your other sense, right? Being like, Oh, this is what I need to do. Right? Regardless If you're comfortable, not comfortable, but this is what I need to do. So the fact that for the last four years, right, you've been doing, you know, some type of of work and going to meetings and, you know, you were doing some district stuff and. Yeah. Or some Yeah. Some districts stuff being treasurers stuff. So you had a, you had a deal with people. So that has helped you. And I think that's what we thought we're talking about here. What's changed Right. This, this program will help you navigate those type

Matt: 18:36

Mm

Steve: 18:36

of things.

Matt: 18:36

hmm.

Steve: 18:37

It'll, it'll help you understand like, ooh, look at I'm not comfortable around people. What do I need to do? Well, for most of us, for most of us, if you want to stay sober, you need to get comfortable around people.

Matt: 18:49

Yes.

Steve: 18:49

You need to be willing to help, you know, reach out for help with other people. That's just the way the program works for us. So, you know, it's taught you like, oh, need to take this step in order to be successful. Certainly in in business you need, especially in your job, you need to have that face, you know, like, oh, not here I am, I'm in front of these people. I don't get an opportunity to come here often, even though and I don't want to come here often, but while I'm here, I need to shake hands. I need to let people know who I am and make sure that, you know, they remember. Like that's that's part of change.

Matt: 19:26

Mm hmm.

Steve: 19:27

Right. And and we're using our program to help. And that's what we say. We we apply these principles in all areas of our life. And that's what you're talking about when you're talking about doing what you did.

Matt: 19:37

Yeah. Letting people know I'm still alive and still with the company. Because

Steve: 19:41

Right.

Matt: 19:41

the way

Steve: 19:42

Right,

Matt: 19:42

our company works, it's that was at the regional level. Then there's the division that oversees the regions, and then there's corporate headquarters that oversees it all. I'm

Steve: 19:54

right,

Matt: 19:54

a headquarters employee now, even though I sit in the same region I used to. I've just been I've just been rewarded over and over again, up and up and up to other parts of the org. So in many ways, going to that regional office is kind of a foreign office because I don't report through that structure anymore.

Steve: 20:16

right.

Matt: 20:16

But there's still people I worked with.

Steve: 20:18

Yeah. No, I can remember doing that when when I was when we were swallowed up by the big companies. Right. Like, you know, a company I worked for was a fortune 11108 or something like that. And same thing like this. So they would have these regional meetings and they would bring all their small come like we were just one company that they had bought up and, and they had a lot of different companies that they had bought up and they would do these sales meeting and it would be the same thing we and I would hate these things

Matt: 20:44

Hey,

Steve: 20:45

man. You know I would I

Matt: 20:46

me

Steve: 20:46

would hate

Matt: 20:47

too.

Steve: 20:47

them. I'd have that I would have this imposter syndrome. And like all these people at this meeting are better than me. And, and like Leah said, like, there might be one other person that I might know, right? And and I didn't sit with them like I was the only one in my office. So any, you know, again, just like you, I didn't have an even if I was going to office, I was the only salesperson there. So when we started have sales meeting goes people that I didn't see regularly and I used to hate those meetings. Oh my God. But you know, they're part of life too, part of doing this. You know, you have to be able to you know, you have to be able to roll with the punches. And, um, I don't know, for me, I talk about all the time that this program has given me an opportunity to do that. It really has just given the confidence. It's given me the opportunity, you know, because when these meetings would happen, typically I'd be talking about them like, Oh, I got to go to a sales meeting. I don't want to go in again, all those type of things. Sometimes if they're an overnight, they don't weren't always, you know, this drinking, this all this kind of stuff. So you always have to talk about it. For me and, and, you know, just just deal with it. And, you know, the nice thing about change is that tomorrow probably brings another change. It really

Matt: 22:05

Mm

Steve: 22:05

does.

Matt: 22:05

hmm.

Steve: 22:06

It's like, you know, we talk you know, we talk about these things. They don't last forever. But what they mean by that, again, people said, well, I got this problem. Go around, it's going to last for a while. It's not that the problem goes away. It's how you feel about the problem changes, right? You start to you start to relax about it, you start to accept it. You start to make something. It's the problem can still be there. Like your CPAP problem, your CPAP issues are going to be there until you get used to it.

Matt: 22:31

Right.

Steve: 22:31

But it's a it's about how you mentally work with that thing and you work that back into your life without going crazy over it.

Matt: 22:40

I'm going to tie this CPAP stuff right into a bulb. This is going to be some great skill

Steve: 22:45

Okay?

Matt: 22:45

here. I go on. My new favorite social media is Reddit. I love Reddit. And one

Steve: 22:51

Really?

Matt: 22:51

of the things I love about Reddit is if people are being pricks, you can downvote them so their influence goes down. It incentivizes you to get karma and upvotes and then you're more listened to, so incentivizes you behaving better on Reddit. And there are a lot of people who post in the CPAP forums around, I can't do this, this is too hard. It's not working for me and those people need to go through alcoholic alcohol or addiction recovery because I thought about that of like this whole being difficult to start. CPAP is not unlike the process of giving up alcohol. That's a lot harder and you have to go through a lot of pain to give up alcohol. You have to change your lifestyle, you have to go through

Steve: 23:43

Mm.

Matt: 23:43

withdrawal for depending on your level of addiction. That withdrawal can be more severe than other times or like quitting smoking. If you want to quit smoking, you have to go through the pain of maybe the urge to eat more or not getting sleep or being irritable. It's just not. And a lot of people who are like, I'm not going to give it up because it's not worth going through that pain. I'm going to have to go through the pain that's not even as bad, that of putting something on my mask, which much like playing guitar. When you play guitar, at first your fingers get calloused and cut. And I had this golfing When I first started golfing badly, my I would cut my hands up from the swing.

Steve: 24:29

Yeah,

Matt: 24:30

You

Steve: 24:30

right.

Matt: 24:30

have to kind of go through that, cutting your hands up, getting blisters on your fingers from playing guitar, getting irritation on your face, from the mask when you start. And that's not desirable. But the long term benefit is you push through it to get to the other side. That's the only path. The only path is through, and that is a barrier for a lot of people. I think we have an advantage if we can tie it back to when we first came in, of the only way for the only way to get around was straight through. And once you straight through, life is better. But it's it's uncomfortable. For a while it was really uncomfortable for probably a year for me. And I think that's probably a lot of people.

Steve: 25:24

It listen, I think it's, I think it's huge for a lot of people, right. I think there's, there's a bunch of stuff that goes on with that. You know, I, I think about it right now, and I don't know if I've mentioned that, but, you know, if you're like met with saying, Oh, I'm looking at myself and I look pretty good, I look at myself and I see Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer.

Matt: 25:44

Huh?

Steve: 25:44

All right.

Matt: 25:45

My nose feels

Steve: 25:46

It

Matt: 25:46

like your nose looks.

Steve: 25:47

right. And for that, I don't know if I've mentioned it here, but I'm doing a little bit of topical ointment. That's really a chemotherapy for a little bit of suspect cells. You know, pre-cancer stuff. And the dermatologist told me, you know, start using this, do it for three weeks, which ends today for me. And she said, if you have any family pictures coming up, you probably want to wait until after that happens before. And then this is why right? I mean, it is it is red, it's raw, it's flaky, it's irritated. And, you know, it's just it's interesting. Just, you know, like, I just have to deal with it and it's like it's been going on three weeks and it's gotten worse and worse and worse. And I don't pay a lot of attention to it. It's Funny, I was I was in Home Depot and I'll wear some hats. I have a hat that says that is an ally of the LGBTQ, you know, society out there. And all it says is that humankind, right, sort of human, is towards humankind. And it says underneath in the colors

Matt: 27:01

Hmm.

Steve: 27:03

be both, right? That's what it says. And I love that

Matt: 27:05

Oh,

Steve: 27:06

hat.

Matt: 27:06

that's

Steve: 27:06

Who's

Matt: 27:06

great.

Steve: 27:06

just because it's just enough. It's not in your face and I had somebody looking at me and I'm like, Oh, they must be looking at my hat. And then I realize, Oh, no, they're probably looking at my nose, right? Probably looking like, What's on with this guy's nose

Matt: 27:21

I probably connect your hat.

Steve: 27:23

now? Probably not. But that's okay, because what am I supposed to

Matt: 27:27

Mm

Steve: 27:27

do, sit home,

Matt: 27:28

hmm.

Steve: 27:28

you know, and do nothing,

Matt: 27:34

I don't know. It's not that.

Steve: 27:35

you

Matt: 27:35

Go ahead.

Steve: 27:37

know, But. But so it's just like it's it's something I got to do and it's like I, I told the guy the pressure Friday night and I've told the guys on Monday night and I'm like, people at Monday night. Listen, it is what it is, right? I mean, the the the other option to let it turn into skin cancer and let it kill me.

Matt: 27:56

Mm hmm. Hmm.

Steve: 27:57

Right. So I guess there is another option. They could freeze it off and shoot my dermatologist. So I don't want to do that. It can turn your skin white. And so anyway, so I'm doing this thing. It'll be over and then my nose will hopefully clear up and I'll be gone to go back in like four months to check it out.

Matt: 28:14

This is one of those things where you will notice it more than other people. Yes. Your nose

Steve: 28:19

Yeah,

Matt: 28:19

is more red. I think other people notice it at first, and then they move on. But

Steve: 28:24

I

Matt: 28:24

it

Steve: 28:24

agree.

Matt: 28:24

is one

Steve: 28:25

I agree.

Matt: 28:25

of the it's like the commercial, the shirt commercial where somebody's got a stain and the stain is gone. Bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah. And it's

Steve: 28:31

Right.

Matt: 28:31

like,

Steve: 28:32

Oh, this, my wife. My wife, like I'll put on a shirt and I don't see it.

Matt: 28:35

yeah,

Steve: 28:35

She's like, Oh, you can't wear a shirt. Like why it's got stains on it. Oh, I look like you're right. It's hard. And sometimes they just say, Honey, I'm just going to an AA meeting.

Matt: 28:44

you

Steve: 28:44

Like.

Matt: 28:45

would be dressed

Steve: 28:45

This

Matt: 28:45

up

Steve: 28:45

is like,

Matt: 28:45

even with that stain.

Steve: 28:46

Right, right.

Matt: 28:48

Mm

Steve: 28:48

But anyway, but, but that's do change,

Matt: 28:51

mm mm mm

Steve: 28:51

right? Like,

Matt: 28:52

mm.

Steve: 28:52

and again, you're talking about your change I'm

Matt: 28:54

Mm

Steve: 28:54

going

Matt: 28:54

hmm.

Steve: 28:54

through and I'm talking about, listen, I every night I get up and I've got this treatment and it you know, I got to do it twice a day. It's a change. I don't I don't like it. I don't like that I'm doing this. I don't like the way it looks. It it feels raw. It is raw, but I have to deal with it, you know? And again, I come I come back to it. In the past you know, alcohol wasn't my problem. It was my solution.

Matt: 29:22

Yes.

Steve: 29:23

And my solution for feeling like this would have been to, you know, something that I'm going to drink. I'm going to make myself feel better because I don't look good. My nose hurts. I got to put this stupid medicine on. Cancer has already tried to kill me once. It's killed two of my three siblings and my mother like it like this. There's a lot to complain about. But the truth is, I don't do that,

Matt: 29:50

Mm

Steve: 29:51

you know, much.

Matt: 29:51

mm mm mm.

Steve: 29:52

And that's because of, you know, the gifts I've been given in sobriety.

Matt: 29:57

I want to share an email I got from Mitzi Wai, who is one of our great friends. Hey, Matt and Steve. It's funny. I've been there with everything that you have been talking about. Sleep apnea. I hated the machine. Was frustrating because I thought it would be the answer to being tired, but it wasn't. I raised three daughters in three seasons, sports, best years of my life, sitting on benches and screaming, Go, go, go. And it goes so fast. They're adults now. Being a grandpa is awesome. I

Steve: 30:32

Mm

Matt: 30:33

eat

Steve: 30:33

hmm.

Matt: 30:33

emotionally. I'm emotional and a habitual eater. I downloaded Eat right now from Dr. Justin Brewer. Interesting stuff. It talks about mindfulness. So we're a lot of like if you have to cut back on meanings for family, make an intention to call, sponsor and talk about your resentments of time not being your own and manage your priorities. Also call what I call AA buddies. Read the Grapevine. Subscribe to the digital form and read a story every morning. I even count your podcast as one of my weekly meetings, so thanks. I appreciate your honesty. And also I have ADHD, so

Steve: 31:15

Yeah,

Matt: 31:16

I love seeing this. Mitzie, because what we did is we were talking about some stuff and it hit every one of your buttons

Steve: 31:24

right.

Matt: 31:25

that that makes that feels great.

Steve: 31:28

You know, No, it tells me when. When we get that. Thank you for that mystic, is that we come into this a lot of time, especially when we're in our addiction and we think that nobody understands us and nobody knows

Matt: 31:41

I

Steve: 31:41

us. No. And what that says is that we're not unique,

Matt: 31:44

know.

Steve: 31:44

Right? Just that's what that tells us. Like we're not unique and we're not alone. And that's the whole point of when change, having a community out there that you could find some help. You can listen to this podcast and go, You know something? I identify with these guys, right? I identify. I know what they're going through. I know how they feel when they're going through it, and just knowing that that other person's out there and knows that is is a relief for me and I think for you and for Misty and and for a lot of people in this program.

Matt: 32:16

Awesome. Well, we'd love to hear from you. We hear from people like Angie M here, from people like Mitzi. There's a whole bunch of people

Steve: 32:24

It's

Matt: 32:24

who are in

Steve: 32:24

just.

Matt: 32:24

my email that I just go back and forth with that I just love hearing from. So let us hear from you quick way. You can go to Apple Podcasts and leave us a five star review there. We read all of them can send an email. Matt at Sober Friends podcast you can follow on Instagram at Sober Friends Pod. Steve Have an awesome day.

Steve: 32:49

You two met.

Matt: 32:50

We'll see everybody next week, everybody.