Becoming Confident in How God Made You w/ Cally Logan

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Are you tired of feeling confined by labels like "shy" or "different"? Join us as we sit down with Cally Logan, author of "The Wallflower that Bloomed," to uncover the powerful journey of embracing authenticity and shedding those limiting labels.

Cally shares touching personal stories from her high school days that many of us can relate to, explaining how these experiences fueled her inspiration for writing her transformative book. Together, we explore the profound impact of labels on our lives, and Cally provides practical advice on looking beyond them, offering grace and understanding to ourselves and others, and recognizing the unique brilliance that God has instilled in each of us.

As we discuss the shift from people-pleasing to authentic living, we highlight the importance of a supportive community that aligns with one's values and faith. 

Cally emphasizes the power of words and how we can positively influence others, especially children, who often internalize limiting labels. From addressing the common struggle of feeling "too much" or "not enough" to aligning our self-worth with God's perspective, this episode is packed with insights and actionable steps to help you grow in confidence and live authentically in alignment with your faith.

Cally's Favorites & Recommended Products:
Book: The Wallflower that Bloomed
IG: @callylogan
Go-To Bible: NIV Version
Bible Study Supplies: Journal
Favorite App/Website - Logos

Transcript

Ellen Krause: 0:04

At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast o. Our goal is to help you delight in God's Word and thrive in Christian living. Each week, we talk to subject matter experts who broaden your biblical understanding, encourage you in hard times and provide life-building tips to enhance your Christian walk. We are so glad you have joined us. Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast. This is Ellen, your host.

Ellen Krause: 0:33

You know, many of us grew up with labels like shy, quiet or different, and these labels confine us, making our voices faint in our presence, unnoticed, and we end up sidelined, feeling isolated and judged rather than seen for who we really are. And our guest today, Ccallie Logan, author of the book the Wallflower that Bloomed, of the book the Wallflower that Bloomed, offers a way around these descriptors. She challenges us to strip away these labels and truly see each other's unique brilliance, and today she invites us to embrace our authentic selves. So we are going to discuss how labels limit the full potential that God has for us, and Kelly will also offer some practical ways that we can all bloom and embrace our uniqueness. So our goal of this episode is to help each other look beyond the labels and extend grace and understanding to both ourselves and others and really just relish in the uniqueness that God has made each one of us.

Ellen Krause: 1:55

Cally Logan is an author and senior writer for Crosswalk. She has been featured on shows such as the 700 Club Interactive and her writing has appeared in numerous outlets, including Christine Caine's Propel Women. Callie served as a mentor for young women for several years and enjoys challenging ladies to develop deeper relationships with God and to live fearlessly and authentically. She received her BA degree from Regent University and in her spare time she enjoys spending time in nature and genuine connection with chats over coffee, which I love, and woodworking. Please welcome Cally.

Cally Logan: 2:44

Hi, I'm so happy to be here.

Ellen Krause: 2:53

I am so excited to have you here, Cally. I wish we were in the same room having our chat over a cup of coffee together, but truly it is a delight and I'm just so proud of you, like after dipping into your book and just seeing your heart.

Cally Logan: 3:15

I'm so happy to be with you. I give you a hug. That's so sweet oh.

Ellen Krause: 3:19

Well, why don't we just start out by you telling us about your story and how God put it on your heart to address this topic?

Cally Logan: 3:30

It's one that has been kind of, I would say just something I pondered in my heart for about 10 years now. I was driving one day it was about 10 years ago and the Lord, there was the phrase the wallflower that bloomed and I thought, oh, that's clever. And I thought, well, that's far more clever than I am. That's definitely something creative of God and I just kind of held it in my heart. I wasn't sure what he meant by that. I didn't know if it was a promise, I didn't know if it was a book, I didn't know what it would be, and I think over the years it grew and it developed and I'm very grateful for that.

Cally Logan: 4:07

And about a year and a half ago, when I was in prayer about my next book, I really felt that the Lord was saying that that was to be the title of a book and it was a book to kind of talk about some of the things that he had been doing in myself and in some of my gal friends around me and the people that I saw blooming authentically for who you are, not who society tells you you should be, not who culture is trying to make you to be, but truly who God himself made you to be for such a time as this, and so that was really the genesis behind it, and just outlining it with him and asking him Lord, please make me your conduit. I just want to be a vessel for your message. What do you want to speak to your children, Lord, and how do you want to encourage them and who you specifically handcrafted them to be?

Ellen Krause: 5:02

That's so, so important in today's environment. You know you had a really touching story at the beginning of your book about sort of a heart-wrenching experience that you went through. I feel like most people can resonate with this in one way or another for sure, and I think it'll just really help them feel that they're not alone.

Cally Logan: 5:31

I'd love to.

Cally Logan: 5:34

I chose to start the book with a very typical day in high school for me, and part of that was I really believe that an author or a narrator is to be kind of a friend to the reader, even if the book's not specifically about them, but than where you are, and to ask God hey, I really want to understand more of who you made me to be, and so I wanted to first showcase that I'm not just talking lip service.

Cally Logan: 6:15

I'm not speaking from somebody who has no background and knowing what it means to feel like an outsider, or what it means to feel lonely or outsider, or what it means to feel lonely or confused where you're supposed to sit in the lunchroom of life. And for a lot of us we go back to high school and our minds with that, but for some it's even into our adult years that we feel that. We might even feel that when we go into church, we might even feel that when we go into work, we might even feel that amongst our friends. And so I wanted to paint a scene of just a very typical day for me when I was 15, in braces and just being bullied. I was bullied a lot in high school and it was some of the things that I remembered so much and kind of. The rest of the book are things that I wish I could have told that girl and anyone who would relate to some of those things that I felt at 15 too.

Ellen Krause: 7:15

Boy. It really got me kind of digging back into the depths of my memory as well is how those feelings of isolation and not fitting in or being worried you know that you're going to be alone and I can even sometimes feel that as an adult because, you know, I still get nervous to this day like walking in a room where maybe I don't know anybody.

Cally Logan: 7:52

I really don't want to go back to high school reunions, because I don't want to feel that awkward Like will anybody talk to me? You know what I mean?

Ellen Krause: 7:58

And one thing I think this topic is so important is for young people to embrace this very, very early on in their life. And you said, to change your question, from why am I this way? To? What does God want me to do with these differences within me? So tell me a little bit about how you have done this in your own life and how you would encourage other people to do the same.

Cally Logan: 8:34

Oh, I love that question. I think for a long time there were facets of me that I defined them by my own vocabulary as flaws for a really long time. And probably one that sticks out big time was I was in my mid-20s and I was hanging out with one of my gal friends and her new boyfriend and I was just being myself. I mean, if I'm very honest, I was actually trying really hard to be outgoing and a little more extroverted than I normally am, you know, because this is the first time really getting to know this guy and I wanted to show off well for my friend. And towards the end of the night he made an offhand comment that that hurt had stung about that. I was quiet and he didn't say it in an endearing way, it was said kind of in a hurtful way to make me feel bad.

Cally Logan: 9:24

And I was driving home from that night and just beating myself silly and I was like God, like I'm just frustrated, why am I so quiet? Why can't I be more outgoing? Why can't I be normal? And God in his kindness interrupted me and said I made you to be quiet. And so then I was quiet then because I was like wait what?

Cally Logan: 9:47

And upon further prayer, I realized with the Lord that when I do speak, it's because I have something important to say.

Cally Logan: 9:54

I don't just ramble on. And I stopped identifying me being quiet as a flaw and instead I said okay, lauren, so you decided to make me this way, what do you want me to do with it, and why is it actually an asset, not a flaw? And so what he brought me into further was just recognizing that when I do speak, it does hold power and it is a gift because it's more cherished, and so people are more attuned to listen, because I'm not just always sounding off. And I started to look at other aspects of me that I had counted a flaw once, that I had counted a flaw once okay, why would an intentional God and his goodness make me in such a way? And so how can I use this to be an asset for the kingdom and be an asset for him and be something that, instead of me saying please, I don't want to have this saying God, thank you so much. Thank you for this characteristic. That was very intentional on your part.

Ellen Krause: 11:01

How would you encourage someone who is feeling this way? Maybe right now they're listening to this and thinking oh yeah, I can resonate with that. What would you suggest that they do?

Cally Logan: 11:17

I think there's a power in offering grace and kindness to yourself, and sometimes, you know, we say that you know the biggest adversary in our lives is always ourselves, and you know we'll kind of beat up on ourselves because we have that, I think, tendency, and I think of it in the way if you saw a young person and they were beating themselves up about a characteristic, more than likely you would come forward to them and be kind and you'd be, you know, full of grace and you say no, this is a beautiful thing about you, I love that, you know you, I love your humor, you know things like that, and so I think doing that for ourselves is is kindness and grace, and I think it's a thing that we should try to do more often.

Cally Logan: 12:04

So I would say, offer yourself the same kindness that you would do unto other people, and also invite God into the conversation. Say, lord, is this something that you want me to have a different perspective on? And, if so, could you help me see myself as you see me, because you love me no matter what, and I want to see myself more through your lens and not the lens of society or culture or even my own lens. I want to become ever more like you. I want to see not just other people, but myself too, like you see me.

Ellen Krause: 12:43

Thank you for that word of encouragement and I hope, if you're listening to this, that you can, and I'm going to take that to heart as well too, because it's an important reminder, I think, for all of us. Especially when we kind of start putting on masks and you talked about this aspect of wearing masks and you said that mirroring is when you adopt mannerisms, phrases and even the cadence of others and present it back to them. Tell us your experience with masks and how you know they impacted your life and how you were able to kind of you know work past that.

Cally Logan: 13:35

Yeah, it's something interesting and I think a lot of times we don't realize that we're doing it. And especially if you're somebody who's maybe a little bit of a people pleaser, you might find yourself putting on a mask and really mirroring or masking is just another form. It's another kind of symptom of people pleasing, because ultimately we're trying to make people like us for who we think they want us to be, and what the deterrent in that is is then they miss out on the real you. They miss out getting to actually know who you actually really are. And so we're actually in a way though we don't think about it in this way, but we're actually making it so that they miss out on that and that is something that they are missing out on. We take that from them that they would get to have that opportunity, and sometimes it's amazing how much more connection and real vulnerability can come when you're presenting your authentic self, and sometimes it's also an awareness that you might be amongst people that it's not actually where God wants you.

Cally Logan: 14:51

I remember in my earlier 20s I was hanging out with some friends and I would fall into that people pleasing. I'm very much a recovering people pleaser, but I would kind of present to them. Oh well, they're in this way, so let me make myself more like them, and anytime I would kind of deter from that and I would maybe offer things that I was more interested in or facets that were actually more authentically me. It wasn't as received as well, I remember I just felt so disheartened.

Cally Logan: 15:26

But in that time I realized maybe I'm not with the people that God wants me surrounded by, and he brought me to a new community, a new Bible study, and when I was in that new Bible study my faith grew exponentially. Truly, there was such an abundant harvest of fruit in my life because I left one field that was bearing no fruit, that was fake, that was masking, and when I was able to be around people who shared the values and the faith that I do, they were able to pour into me, I was able to pour into them, and what was birthed from it was so much more abundant than what had been previously. And so I think in that same way we can look at it. If we are masking, it might be kind of an indicator or a sign hey, this isn't going to bear fruit in my life, but I want to bear fruit. So, in taking off that mask for revealing who I actually am. It might reveal more if I'm actually in the right place as well.

Ellen Krause: 16:37

That's so deep because I think a lot of us just by default, like you said, kind of almost, are like chameleons to try to fit in wherever we go. And you talked about imagining everybody you knew, from all the different aspects of your life, coming together in one place and it would really be a telling story to see what kind of masks like. All of a sudden, you know you've got everyone around you and if you are wearing different masks, it would be kind of difficult to navigate a situation like that, but it certainly would be revealing for sure.

Cally Logan: 17:16

I feel like a costume store in a way. You'd have so many masks.

Ellen Krause: 17:20

Yes, yes, labels can be so, so hurtful, and I know specifically you're addressing this stigma that people put on like if you're shy or awkward. Tell us a little bit about how that really limits the full potential that God has planned for us.

Cally Logan: 17:46

I think sometimes we have to be careful with how we phrase things, because even to ourselves or even about other people, words can be placed as to describe somebody very quickly, but that can also shut down further desire to get to know that person. So if we say, oh well, they're shy, like of children especially this happens with children oh, they're just shy, there's a reluctancy to then talk to that person because you're going to go in with the expectation they're shy, they don't want to talk. I shouldn're going to go in with the expectation they're shy, they don't want to talk, I shouldn't talk to them when a lot of times words like shy it might be a quick descriptor but maybe they're just not quite as outgoing, but that doesn't mean they don't want to be seen or they don't want to be noticed or they don't want to be appreciated for who they are. And so I think when we stop putting those stops with labels, then we can open the door to have better communication. And so a lot of that is our phrasing and how we package things.

Cally Logan: 18:52

I think that's why it's so important to always look at am I describing the person in a positive fashion? So we have to think about what we're going to say before we say it. And I think another side of it is looking. I love in Samuel how it talks about how God sees the heart of man, not the exterior, and so in the same way, we kind of have to do that a little bit in the exterior of apparent traits of people as well. So, lord, I want to see this person the way you see them. Can you help me to describe them or speak life into them in a way of something that you see within them?

Cally Logan: 19:31

You know, if you see someone, even if they seem a little timid but they're still doing a thing, say you're so courageous.

Cally Logan: 19:38

I love how you got up there and you did this, that and the other, even little kids I'm so big it's a teacher in me, but I'm so big on that my high schoolers, even when they would get up and they would read a report in front of the class if they were a little nervous about it, but they still did it, I'd say you know, you did a really great job and I'm really proud of you because that took a lot of guts to get up there and share this whole showcase of stuff that you worked really hard on and you did well and I'm proud of you and that's going to instill in them a positivity that they'll be willing to do more and they'll be willing to try again because of that positive outlet.

Cally Logan: 20:17

So with labels, we also have to really make sure that we're being positive and if there are labels that were maybe it's something they're working on still be positive in how you phrase it, say well, they're working on this a little bit, it's a work in progress, but they've come a long way from where they were and I'm proud of them and it's just always kind of having that positive outlook towards things.

Ellen Krause: 20:41

Yes, absolutely.

Ellen Krause: 20:42

You know, I remember early, early on in my parenting years reading a book of advice for parents and it was talking about avoiding labels or saying, oh, this is my smart one or this is my shy one.

Ellen Krause: 20:57

You know, if you have different children and I really that's something that I really took to heart because, similar to you, I was kind of that shy one. I remember like clinging to my mom's leg, you know, when we went somewhere, and those labels also sort of empower kids to become that label and really almost enhance or, you know, act like it, maybe more than they even normally would. So I love that you address that and encourage people in a positive way. That is something that you know I guess I hadn't really given a lot of thought to, but I have often thought because I tend to be on the quieter side as well really and I've often thought those exact same things that you mentioned. But I think I love how you just sort of put it in God's hands and let God kind of respond. And one of the things that I was thinking about is why offering our authentic self over our artificial self is so important, as we represent Christ in this world, because people can see through these artificial selves.

Ellen Krause: 22:32

So tell me a little bit about your experience related to being an ambassador of Christ and how you would encourage someone else to do that as well.

Cally Logan: 22:44

One of the best things I ever heard was you may be the only representation of Christ someone gets. And I think about that, and especially in our culture, where there is not just a stigma but there's a lot of times just an aversion to Christians at all, to church, and people will shut you down the second that they hear you're Christian, because they assume that you're going to have this kind of bitter view of people and that it's unloving and it's unkind, and so they'll just sum you up and I think, well, that's not who Jesus is right. So if I really want to be an ambassador of Christ and I want to look more like him, then it's presenting yourselves in an authentic way. And that takes vulnerability too.

Cally Logan: 23:40

And I think a powerful thing too is even admitting saying you know, as Christians, saying this is something I struggle with, you know, maybe, maybe I struggle with, with anger sometimes, and people say, what, what do you mean?

Cally Logan: 23:54

You know you're a Christian, you're supposed to, you know, kind of be this like peaceful little lamb all the time, and it's sometimes I struggle with this and this is something God's working on with me.

Cally Logan: 24:06

I say, well, what do you mean God's working on with you with that and that furthers the conversation, because then you get to talk about the relationship with God, how he is molding and changing you and working in you, when it takes that authenticity. And so for us, when we're going out into the world, we don't want to shove down people's throats scripture and things that just mean nothing to them, right, and instead say, hey, I'm going to come at this from a side angle and say, let me share a time when I was really depressed, when I was going through it and how God was with me and helped me through things. And it's in presenting that authenticity that we can actually get to vulnerability and we can get to conversation and people begin to think, oh well, I'd like to hear more about this Jesus then, because that's totally different than what culture has told me that Jesus is about, and I just think there's a beauty in that.

Ellen Krause: 26:01

Yes, there, absolutely is, because all of us are broken, fall short, sin. You know, there's in many different ways that we realize that if people saw us for who we really were and that we struggle, I think that then they would be more open to seeing. Well, what is their hope in then, if?

Ellen Krause: 26:31

they have all of these things going on and they're still. They still have joy. Yeah, help me understand how like that's possible. Yeah, you know, one of the things I think is interesting is you talk about how people often feel either not being enough or being too much, so tell us what you mean by that and what advice you would have people who might be feeling that way.

Cally Logan: 27:10

I think I've heard it said from guys as well, but I think, especially for women, we seem to have this common phrasing where people will tell us either you're too this, you're too that, you're too much right, or you're not enough this, you're not enough that, and it's weird how sometimes they're just interchangeable, and I think that, for our self-concept, is really debilitating in a lot of ways, because it sabotages us from then trying and it kind of holds us back at the gate from even attempting anything more. But where we have to really look at it is are the gauges that are being used? Are those measurements ones that God himself uses? Because the truth is, we are not enough, and that's why we need a savior right. Right are not enough, and that's why we need a savior right. And so there are other aspects of things. Where am I using a measurement and a gauge that the world's using, that this one particular person's using, or am I basing this off of what God says? Because we're always going to fall short? Right, and that's why we need a savior.

Cally Logan: 28:27

But there are other aspects of us that we might look at and say, well, I don't feel pretty enough, right, that's, that's a big one that I hear, and I think that's where we have to take that to the lord and say god, is that true?

Cally Logan: 28:39

What do you actually say of me? And that's, that's where digging into god's word is so important, because that's where we're going to learn his character and his truth and what he says of us. And then I think that also comes into not just going there, but also coming into communion with him through prayer and saying Lord, what is your gauging on this? What do you say? Am I not good enough or do you say something different of me? And please help teach my heart so that this is a truth and solid rock that I'm standing on in my heart and not just quicksand, and to move forward into that, into our lives. And that's where we begin to change and our self-concepts change. And then we can help other people as well and how they speak to themselves and the measurements that they're using. We can encourage them so that a lot of these hurtful things are they're squashed.

Ellen Krause: 29:40

Yes, definitely. You know what came to mind when you were talking. Talking about that is how, sometimes, sort of unfairly, I may be thinking those types of things, and one thing that I've, in recent years, really been trying to do is to say like to stop those thoughts and be like God. Would you just help me to see the way? You see, and that prayer has been answered so many times and it's always very humbling because I think that there's, you know, for every frustration. You know there's 10 positive things that I could be focusing on instead, and so I think that we could all sort of get into that. So you took this, what God sort of gave you as far as the title of your book, and you kind of built upon this whole sort of gardening theme and digging in and pruning and thorns and blossoms Tell us, for someone who's listening, here you have some practical ways to bloom. So, as we start to wrap things up, I think that just might be an encouraging way to help people think about this.

Cally Logan: 31:17

Oh for, sure I'm all about the practical and tactical. I think it's wonderful to tell stories but also providing tools and saying these are resources and things to get into. So I go from macro to micro really in the book on ways, because there are things that you might not even consider Like one of my favorite ones is talking about kind of a closet overhaul and doing that. And that was a process the Lord didn't just walk me through, but several of my friends and in all of us. You know it's kind of we don't have some TLC budget to have like a whole new wardrobe purchased, but it was an act of obedience and really just an exercise with the Lord of going into closets and really looking at every piece and going past that kind of Marie Kondo doesn't bring me joy, but instead asking does this represent me and who I want to show? That's in here, out here? Because people, like it or not, they're going to make an assessment of you based on what you're wearing. And I'm not just talking brands, I'm talking you know, how much skin you're showing or what style you have or all the different things. And so I went through with the Lord and every single piece of clothing I had if it wasn't comfortable, if it wasn't the right size, if it just didn't represent who I am right here right now in my season at 32, it went, and so you know I sold the clothes and things like that and then slowly have been rebuilding the closet with the Lord. But it's so much fun and I didn't realize what a gift it is to invite the Father into shopping, and so that was a really Practical, tactical way of things and seeing the absolute joy that comes from wearing things that the Lord helped me pick out, and so when someone compliments I can say God helped me pick this out and here's the story behind it, or I feel so much more confident and I feel like me.

Cally Logan: 33:30

So that's one big practical way, is just kind of a closet overhaul and I go in the book on how to do it. But I also talk about the space around you, even your room, some of the things that you have, and creating and fostering a space that really is one where you can thrive and you don't feel so congested. And I go through talking about relationships with friends and community and things that we have opportunity to say yes or no to, and so there's a whole bunch. There's a lot of thoughtful questions to ponder with the Lord and kind of work through in the book. But they're all geared so that by the time you get to the end of the book and the process, we're all works in progress and so you might have to read another chapter at another time or you might have to start back at the beginning and go through again.

Cally Logan: 34:23

But it's going in such a way that you are practically and tactically blooming, but you're doing it not by yourself, but you're doing it completely in connection, hand in hand with the Lord, and saying I'm inviting you not into just part of my life, not into just Sunday mornings, not into just Wednesday night you know Bible study but I'm inviting you into every facet of my life, from clothes to friends, to romance, to everything that's a such an interesting um tip, and I know that that's something that I'm actually kind of excited about putting to use as well.

Ellen Krause: 35:06

I'm curious, Cally, can you give us an example of maybe something that you took out of your wardrobe, that you just wasn't you?

Cally Logan: 35:16

Yeah, you know, it was funny. You'll probably laugh. Leggings I hate leggings and I have pretended for years that I like them and I'd wear them. And one day I picked them up and I thought I hate how these feel on my legs. I feel like they're turtlenecks for my legs and I hate it. And so I gave myself the permission and freedom to sell them and I did, and I felt so much better because I realized I had been. I purchased them because it was trendy and it was a trendy thing to wear to bar class, because I like doing bar, and it is totally okay if, instead of wearing leggings to bar class, I just wear the swishy pants, sure.

Cally Logan: 36:14

The one from the 2000s that goes swish, swish, swish, yes. And I feel so much more comfortable and I feel so much more me and I feel more flexible and my legs don't feel like they've got a snake around them. So that was a funny thing that I took out, and I think some of my friends were even like that's okay. I thought, well, I didn't feel like me and I didn't feel comfy in them, but I feel a whole lot better in my 2002 swishy pants, so I'm okay with it.

Ellen Krause: 36:45

Oh my goodness, that's so funny because I kind of in the same way, only with tank tops. Like I'm just not really a tank top person and I think it's great. Like sometimes I'm like, oh, I wish I was and I have some and I'll wear them, maybe underneath something. But I'm not just like going to walk around in one. But I love that you give yourself permission just to be who you are. Cally, as we finish here, where can our listeners go just to find out more information about you and the book?

Cally Logan: 37:30

Yeah, weirdly enough, I think social media ends up being one of the conduits where we provide and um enter into so much connection. And so Instagram, for sure. It's Cally, with a C and a Y. Um, I love sharing God's stories on there Little things he is revealing in my life or in friends' lives, and things like that. Um, also, callylogan. com is another great place.

Cally Logan: 37:56

The book is sold everywhere books are sold. So Amazon, barnes, noble Christian Book. I love supporting small businesses, so Christian Book. They are wonderful people behind the scenes behind the website and everything. So, everywhere books are sold. But I love connecting with people. I love hearing their hearts. I have a section on my website where people can come and they can just submit stories and stuff and sometimes I'll put them up on social media of like real life, blooming stories and I'll connect back with them. But I love hearing their stories, whether it's about this or some of my other books. I have a book about being ready and preparing yourself for God's best and as a spouse, and so I love hearing their stories of just how they're waiting on God and they're trusting him and they're seeing how God is moving and changing them or you know, uh, all the different things.

Ellen Krause: 38:48

So Awesome, Okay, Well, we will make sure we put those um links in our show notes and you can find Cally for sure. Before we go, I just want to ask you a couple of our favorite Bible study tool questions. First, what Bible is your go-to Bible and what translation is it?

Cally Logan: 39:11

My go-to Bible is. I have a pre-2011 NIV that I love. That I got when I was baptized and it is tattered and I love it so much because it's well used. But I also like diving into NLT. There's a lot of kind of interesting translations with that and I recently have really the past like five years recently gotten into interlinear, which is a little bit hard to understand because it's not always phrased in a way that makes total sense but there's so much more rich depth that you're going to get from that direct translation from the Hebrew or the Aramaic or the Greek. I'm a big Bible nerd so I like that original phrasing.

Ellen Krause: 39:55

Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, some great suggestions there. Do you have any favorite journaling supplies or anything that you like to use to enhance your Bible study experience?

Cally Logan: 40:08

I am a big believer of having all kinds of different journals and notes all over the place. So I have one on my phone that I keep and I'll keep tabs on there, but I also have my, my handwritten ones. And then I have a real special journal of things where I feel like the Lord is revealing something really big, like a weighty verse. Um, I'll put verses in that and kind of pray and ponder over that verse for a season and even make notes of where I see it come up and other facets of life, or a friend will say it and stuff like that. And so I think there's a, there's a gift in seeing that over time, because you'll you'll find that journal years later and it'd be like I forgot about that verse and that verse really was that verse of the season, wasn't it?

Ellen Krause: 40:50

Yeah, oh, that's neat. That reminds me of people who pick a word to represent a season in life too. Okay, lastly, what is your favorite app or website for Bible study tools?

Cally Logan: 41:07

Logos is a great application. They have a free version. They also have the paid version. That one is wonderful. I have friends who are in seminary who got me onto Logos. I joke and say I'm homeschooling myself through seminary but I'm not paying to get the actual degree. I also love Blue Letter Bible when we can go and, like I said, going into the Hebrew and the Greek and the Aramaic and even learning just words like tov, which means good, but really diving into what tov means and where it comes up in other places. So neat to see the cross-referencing and to see what God's real heart and intention is with our language and so that we can step into the depth of that and see that we do not have a superficial God, we have a very multifaceted, intentionality-based God and really just diving into that. So those are some really great tools for that.

Ellen Krause: 42:10

Yes, both of those are excellent, for sure, and in fact we'll make sure we put links in the show notes, because we can also offer you a special discount for logos. So it is phenomenal. All right, Cally. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today and remind us of the importance of stripping away the stigma of labels and really accepting, honoring and believing in who God has made us to be.

Cally Logan: 42:48

Bless you guys and bless your ministry. It's so good, so thank you.

Ellen Krause: 42:53

Thank you so much and for our listeners if you would like to go deeper into this topic, please get a copy of Cally's book the Wallflower that Bloomed. We will have the link in our show notes. Thank you so much. We love you all. We appreciate you listening. If you could leave a review, that would definitely help keep our podcast going. We would appreciate it so much. Have a blessed day.