Ep 18: Male Factor Infertility with Greg Sommer, Trak Fertility

Despite being responsible for nearly half of all cases of couples' fertility struggles, men are largely left out of the equation. There are a plethora of resources for women, from educational material to psychological support, yet very few of the same support systems exist for men. Along with this, going to a male fertility clinic can be a vulnerable experience, leaving men feeling exposed. Our guest today, Greg Sommer, is the co-founder of Sandstone Diagnostics, a Bay Area diagnostics company that develops sophisticated wellness products that allow consumers to measure, monitor, and improve key health markers at home. 

Transcript

spk_0:   0:13
Hi, everyone. We're Arena and era and welcome to Fertility. Ford were part of the wellness team at Army of New York, a fertility clinic affiliated with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Are Fertility for a podcast? Brings together advice for medical professionals, mental health specialists, wellness experts and patients because knowledge is power and you are your own best advocate.

spk_1:   0:36
Greg Summer is a PhD level engineer, entrepreneur, an executive and consumer healthcare and clinical diagnostics. In 2012 Dr Summer co founded Sandstone Diagnostics Ah, Bay Area Diagnostic and Digital Health Company. Developing sophisticated connected wellness products that allow consumers to measure, monitor and improve key health markers at home. Sand Stones Track. Male fertility testing system allows men to measure, track and improve sperm camped at home to boost a couple's chances of conception. Dr. Summer was recognized as a 2015 Bay Area 40 under 40 by Deauville magazine and has won numerous entrepreneurial competitions. He is a co inventor of 18 patents. He has secured six million plus dollars in research grants and co authored 11 peer reviewed publications. In this episode, we talked all about at home sperm test kits tips on how to improve sperm quality and when to seek out seeing a physician for male fertility testing.

spk_0:   1:43
We're so excited to have on fertility for today, Greg Summer from track Fertility. Welcome, Greg. Thank you so much from joining us all the way from Minneapolis. V asleep.

spk_2:   1:53
Thank you, Preserve reader. Thanks for having me todo

spk_1:   1:56
wonderful. We would love to know what track fertility is and also how you got in this realm of fertility world.

spk_2:   2:04
Sure. So track is an at home kit. It's intended for men. We kind of position it as you know, the best first step for men who are trying to become dads. It's, ah, easy and convenient way for men to test and measure and track their sperm count and semen volume entirely at home. It's a device, actually a medical device, Class two, FDA cleared system that you get your home, you can run it right there in your bathroom or wherever you want to test, get immediate results. You don't have to send in your sample and do it privately. So, you know, this was something that started really out of the recognition that one men are pretty overlooked and underserved when it comes to the fertility process, especially early on for couples. A lot of things in the space focus on women despite men being responsible for nearly half of all cases of infertility. There's not a whole lot options or guys out there early in this process. And getting tested isn't the most enjoyable experience for men having to go into a lab or fertility center. To get that semen analysis done can be a little bit of a gut check for guys. So this is an easier way simpler, more convenient way to get that initial test and take some positive steps. Second, hopefully improve Guy's sperm production and help that couple conceive.

spk_1:   3:21
When did this company start? When did you start it? Well,

spk_2:   3:25
the company is actually called sandstone Diagnostics. This is a company that I started with some colleagues in 2012 based on a technology platform that we initially were actually developing at a government national lab. So in my previous life, I was a research scientist leading a research group developing pointed care tools, handheld instruments, primarily around biodefense applications, so things where you potentially have a mass population of people exposed to maybe a nasty substance. There's a challenge there. And how can you really, rapidly and comprehensively test all the people who were potentially exposed and get treatment to those who need it out of that spawn, a technology that we developed that worked really well for doing things like blood tests and white cell counts and things that we wanted to commercialize. So we left those jobs. We started sandstone, actually in the garage of a rental house, Livermore, California, in 2012. And unidentified male fertility is our first product that we wanted to bring the market one because of the guess what I mentioned before around the market need, especially at that time. Very few tools for men onto. From a technology standpoint, we knew we had the capability to build a very precise and accurate sperm count test and set off toe be our first foray into the market and change the way couples conceive.

spk_0:   4:50
Well, that's incredible. So where can you purchase one of the kits?

spk_2:   4:56
We saw it mostly online today and still through our website track, fertility dot com that's t R. A. K fertility dot com were also on Amazon and a few other websites, so the product is approved for purchasing with your health savings account and flex spending account. There's a few websites such as the F s, a store dot com that specializes only in products that are under that banner where or track can be found as well on a mix little easier. If you have a FSH Rh us a debit card, you can use it right there.

spk_0:   5:25
So I mean, I was looking at your website, and the price point is not crazy. I mean, this is not something that's gonna cost people thousands of dollars. It's pretty manageable. It's in.

spk_2:   5:34
Yeah, our entry kit is a $75 device, and that comes with the device and two tests, and we saw a refill tests on top of that, really emphasizing the importance of repeat testing and tracking. But you're right. I think it's really important here that this not be a cost barrier. You know there's enough barriers for sure to get in your semen tested cost shouldn't be one of them for these guys,

spk_1:   5:56
right? Absolutely. And since where women, I'm not quite sure. Is there a specific time that you I prefer people taking it. You send it all back to a lab. How does that work?

spk_2:   6:06
No. So you do it on your own time. You don't have to send it back in comes with a device and consumables and little pipettes everything that you need to run the test entirely at home. That's great. Yeah, there's not really a right time of day or time the week toe test. What we do recommend, especially for couples who are trying to conceive, is that you test while your partner is on her period so that you're not interfering with the baby making process. Of course, it's a good time to test we actually recommend them, and test monthly Sprinkles can change a lot. And you know, that's one of the really interesting and empowering things about this whole space of men's reproductive health Is that and a guy's sperm quality is not set in stone? It can fluctuate a lot for a lot of reasons, you know, environmental and personal and things that you're doing with their health and wellness, what you're eating, how you're exercising. Those things could all play a role. So really, what we do with the track system. Is we encouragement to adopt what we're calling sperm friendly habits? We're not talking about a lifetime of changing your old lifestyle. We talking about a few months could make a big difference. Let's try to yield it better if you're overweight with trying to lose some weight. Maybe, sir walking and exercising a little bit more cooling, you know, big thing that we are proponents of is testicular cooling. The testicles need to be a few degrees cooler than the rest of the body for a reason that really helps for production. So if you're really motivated and want to do what you can improve your chances of conception, guys air into it. They're taking these daily supplements there, too, and cooling and all these other things I can make a big difference. What

spk_0:   7:38
is cooling exactly?

spk_2:   7:43
There's kind of a passive approach, I guess. Which is, Well, let's stay out of a hot tub and sauna and, you know, stay off the mountain bike for long hours a day, and then there's more active stuff. There's actually products out there that cool down your testicles. You know, there's underwears with ice pack and other devices that got on there. Wait, not believe Attic story. You don't wanna go too nuts, but pardon the pun things. There's the ice out there The guys can sit on while they're commuting to work and back. And there's actually quite a bit of clinical research around the active benefits of this not just for sperm production, but a little bit of a boost in testosterone as well.

spk_0:   8:21
Oh, because I know people are always asking, you know, what can I do to improve sperm quality so helpful to share anything?

spk_2:   8:29
Yeah, cooling. And then these one a day supplement the most doctors will tell you are gonna hurt general blend That could be healthy for the sperm production environment. Those are kind of the two biggest things that we recommend alongside the monthly testing. Do

spk_1:   8:42
you have any brands that you recommend cause a lot of people come to me and asked me my opinion. And I've heard of a couple brands that is there any one specific one that you typically like? Yeah,

spk_2:   8:51
well, we don't really promote one or the other. There is a new company actually in the space called Neutra Verve that she had a Canada small team that were really fans, and we've done some good work with them, kind of bundling track with their daily supplement. They called her product of male prenatal. It's got a good plan and has been performing really well again, really good reviews, So we like them. But in general, I think a lot of them are pretty similar. And, you know, if you're taking a decent, even just a good multi bio minute with some antioxidants, I think it's been shown toe have a positive effect.

spk_0:   9:24
Okay, so cooling supplements, what else could be done toe help improve?

spk_2:   9:29
Well, it's a great time to kind of drop those vices, especially when you think about are customer group here. I guess our demographic. You're dealing with young men who and they tend to be younger men who are kind of at an important shift inflection in their life. I guess a lot of these guys are maybe newly married or settling doubt and coming out of a college party days toe, live a little bit more of a balanced life down. This is a great time to maybe drop the fast food habits. If you're smoking, let's lay off the cigarettes or excessive drinking. All these things have been tied toe risks of low sperm quality, and it's a very motivating time. You know, you're not dealing with getting healthier or maybe losing way. You're talking about becoming a father. I think our society has changed a lot where these guys are very motivated, very excited about the prospect of becoming head to head and having kids. Now, when I recognize that they might have a fertility issue, it's devastating. It could be really are breaking. We see this as a really keen opportunity to instill some healthy your lifestyle habits in these guys, to not only help them with their fertility, you know, to improve their reproductive health, but to see those benefits extending their overall health as well. I would venture to bet that these guys who are taking steps to prove their fertility when they're young are gonna have better health outcomes down the road. And it's a very positive thing

spk_1:   10:46
and happy mentioned that. Grab this. I meet with a lot of women, a couple of men, but the idea of prime in your body and prime in your habits early on, so down the road with the child. You're already establishing healthier habits, and I know also with women. Women have toe refrain from alcohol and limit their caffeine during a pregnancy. And it's nice when a man can also be supportive. And, of course, it could be somewhat temporary. You know, cutting back caffeine, cutting back on alcohol, trying to cut out cigarettes. It's great, tells to be supportive and do it together.

spk_2:   11:24
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that. I think it's overlooked a lot the benefits and power of couples doing this together. But for so long it's been women receiving this advice and doing things on their own on the council of their Obi do I. N or fertility specialists who whoever it is, and the men are just kind of left out of that discussion. But what we see is that the guys don't want to be left out. They don't like being on the sideline, are being talked around. They want to be involved. And there's still a lack of awareness or education around the importance of the male half of the equation. So you know when you are able to coach them that hey, guys, air just as important in this process as women are. The guys really respond well to it, and they get into and say, OK, well, she's doing us. I'm gonna do it to You know, I think you're going to see that those couples better doing it together are gonna be far more successful than someone doing it on their own. It's empowering to do something together as a couple, and I think it's relationship building, too. You know, you're kind of taking step through your elf that your relationship and your future family. I think it's all gonna benefits in the long run.

spk_0:   12:26
So absolutely I love that. This gives men a real tangible, too, because I think a lot of times when I see couples, one partner, the other doesn't know how to support the other person. You know, it's always nice to give somebody a tangible and give them the tools to support somebody.

spk_2:   12:41
Yeah, it is just being willing to test yourself. I think is kind of a gift to your partner like, Hey, I'm really into it, showing you know, I'm committed in this I'm interested in. I see what I can do says a lot, regardless of whatever the results are.

spk_0:   12:54
First day. Yeah, fasting, you know, I mean, that's scary.

spk_2:   12:58
You're dealing with something. Expert account. It's not the most fun topic to talk about. You know, there's a stigma. There's a taboo around is tough to bring up that subject. You know, it's kind of like sexual health in that regard, where it was a vulnerability toe testing yourself For STDs, there's a vulnerability to testing your sperm count scene where it is, and it's also kind of nerve wracking a lot of our customers the first time you test. You have no idea what your result feller. It's not like there's other symptoms around low sperm. Count that you're walking around you. You have no idea what your sperm count is until you get a test. Yeah, it could be difficult,

spk_1:   13:31
but the idea is to do it at home. I think also lowers peoples stress levels that much more. I know if my husband, when we were trying to get pregnant here in Army, you know, he tried to make a joke of it. Old magazines that idea of being able to do it at home, your own comfort when you feel ready. I'm sure it's a huge relief for a lot of men.

spk_2:   13:51
Yeah, on your own turf, like well, like a makes a big difference.

spk_0:   13:55
So say you do test and you get results that say that your sperm quality or sperm count all those variables you're testing for can be improved. When should you test again? What's kind of the time frame for that?

spk_2:   14:07
Well, we kind of recommend that you test twice initially, and that's based on the World Health Organization has standards around semen analysis that we based a lot of our recommendations off over the W. H O recommends testing twice within a few weeks to establish a baseline. We recommend that as well, and then monthly. After that, it can take a few months to see significant changes You were likely to seize from day to day fluctuations, but to see a meaningful change often takes 2 to 3 months. It really comes down to the lifecycle of a sperm sperm at a Genesis cycle, as they say, is about 72 days from a sperm being born to coming out of the body. And that's about the time cycle when you're able to see meaningful changes due toa whatever sort of interventions that you're pursuing. But for men who tests low, especially your testing consistently, we recommend they go see a physician.

spk_0:   14:59
What? You did you Did you call the doctor? Well, yeah, yeah.

spk_2:   15:03
You know, tracks. Not a replacement for a medical evaluation or a laboratory semen analysis. It's a screening and tracking tool of from important parameters. But it's not all inclusive medical diagnosis. So we recommend that the guys were testing. We'll go see a physician and, ideally, ah, mainly reproductive health specialist, the urologist specializing this. And I know you know, Army. You have one of the top doctors in the country, and Dr Romo specializes in this season mental the time for these issues. But there's doctors like that all over the country. We recommend they find one, and the sooner you can get in the door, Teoh, see where you're at CVS on issuance. We're taking steps. Obviously, the better your prognosis in the long run

spk_1:   15:40
grabbed. You also provide some guidance, er research on your website for those men who want to improve their sperm.

spk_2:   15:48
Yeah, we have a lot of stuff. So the product yourself comes with a book, but about 30 pages long. We kind of divide up the you know what to do about your sperm, count into six different sections and give some some general tips and guidance. We also have a little bit more of a personalized tool available on our website and through our app for him, a free mobile app out there called tracks firm Health and Fertility app. It's got a tool in it that takes about 10 minutes to complete, so it's a little bit of uninvolved question there. But what it does is it flags, potential health and lifestyle issues that could be causing fertility issues. I guess it kind of comes down to, you know, again what we're talking about before a lot of guys just I don't know this area and aren't really all that well informed about reproductive health in general. So it goes through the questions to flag these things that might be causing an issue and give the guys some tips and guidance on what they can do about it. And that includes, you know, go see a specialist because this medication might be causing an issue as well as things like you're a little overweight. This might be a good time toe. Try to lose £10 if that's going to be possible. And all the other things in between that can make a difference.

spk_0:   16:55
Oh, I love that. It seems like you really are giving people a lot of very says that the tools and advice right from the get home you have been.

spk_2:   17:03
I would also mention that we built all this with the urologists who specialize in this space. We've talked to several of the doctors now who do a lot of research in this area, the guidance documents coming out of the medical societies to help us make these tools and really make a useful product and ecosystem. Nothing we hear from physicians all the time, including Dr Barama, is most men aren't getting treated, aren't really getting looked at, especially early in the process of anything that could help these guys get better educated, more aware, get tested, is seen as a positive in this space, and it's gonna improve fertility outcomes for these couples who need it.

spk_1:   17:43
So I noticed on your site that you guys are doing research. There's a recent study. Would you like to talk a little bit about that in terms of the 300 college age men and women.

spk_2:   17:52
Oh, yeah, Yeah, we've had some interesting opportunities. Just having the product out there on the market now for a few years is to, I guess, dive a little bit deeper into health and lifestyle and perceptions, especially marksmen. But amongst men and women as well. Yeah. Recently, over the summer, we did a study kind of coming at it from the apotheosis that it seems like a lot of people aren't really all that well familiar are educated around reproductive health until you really kind of get into the space. And I'm sure you can attest to this that no couples who get that first diagnosis a lot of times just kind of act like they're hit with a ton of bricks.

spk_0:   18:27
The majority of things I hear is, Well, I spent my whole life trying not to get pregnant, you know, that's what they teach out and knock it out on. Someone told me how hard it would be. You know, I wish I had known all this information. I think you know. But on a message right now, is really teaching kids. This is that you don't get pregnant until you can ever in the fertility space you don't realize. OK, well, other things, maybe perhaps I should have known.

spk_2:   18:49
Yeah, for good reason. I mean, we don't do that for no reason. Obviously, teen pregnancies and things are an issue, and you want kids to be smart and to be healthy. But yeah, the flip side of that is there's this unrealistic expectation around fertility that just doesn't come to be true when couples kind of month after month, they're going by and this isn't happening. What's going on? I thought that this would happen immediately once I've stopped using the pill we went out, didn't did a survey with about 300 college age most men and women just to understand a little bit more around. What did they think about fertility and know about it? And we have to just kind of broken down by the differences between men and women, which we found to be kind of fascinating. So we found that women were more likely to say that they wonder about what their fertility status might be. But when you look at, we have questions like, How important is it for you to have Ah, child in the future and a breakdown was about the same thing about the same percentage of men and women said it. This is really important for me. Yes, we went through a lot of these things. Men tended to foresee themselves having kids a little bit later in life than women. Maybe not surprising there. Women a little bit more likely toe suspect that they might have, ah, fertility issue. Although the percentage is there. A. Both men and women were still pretty low. I think a lot of people, especially young people, just tend to think that they're healthy and going to be fine. The women are a little bit more aware that they might have an issue. Interestingly, So we asked about what does fertility mean for, you know, if you're not in a relationship and trying to find a partner, we have, you know, is fertility an important factor when you're looking for a future partner and men actually answered that a little bit higher than women? Don't which I found interesting that men were more likely toe see that as an important issue in a future partner than women. Women said they're more likely to get tested than men. Probably not surprising then, and this was maybe one that we all know. But to put some data to it was interesting that women are actually twice as likely than men to have a personal doctor. Then you think about young guys. Guys don't see a young.

spk_0:   20:53
Yeah, it's weird. I think women are more prone to go to doctors than men. I don't know.

spk_2:   20:57
Well, I think women are used to seeing their doctor or there will be annually. At least guys only go to the Golden Doctor. If you have Teoh like that, have

spk_0:   21:09
a flu shot that Yeah,

spk_2:   21:13
yeah, I think a lot of that stuff. The big takeaways were both encouraging and discouraging at the same time. I think both men and women see fertility and having kids in their future very strongly, but probably not is aware of the prevalence of infertility as maybe they should be. I think there's positives and negatives to come from this, but overall I think if kids of this age who are approaching that reproductive time in their life can have a little bit more awareness that infertility isn't as simple is flipping on the lights, which I think that be very positive. I think that can lead them or people getting tested, being aware that they might have an issue and could resolve a lot of the increasing infertility rates that we're seeing today.

spk_0:   21:58
Well, it sounds like, you know, we talk a lot about how we want the dialogue to be changed surrounding infertility. And I would love for the voice around the male factor to change, too and men to be. You know, you think it's hard to get women to come in my office. It's very hard to get them to come in and open up and talk about this. And I always wish there was more resource is and supports that I could send then Teoh. It's hard to find because as much as women are talking about it, men really aren't talking about it.

spk_2:   22:24
Yeah, I think it's different for women, and I think for men it's got to be one anonymous in two very private we see with ourselves that this might not be a topic that men are openly discussing with their friends and family but they are looking for answers, then spend a lot of time googling for information. Trying to figure stuff out of the men are naturally problem solvers and they treat us like a problem and, well, how can I fix it? How can I solve it? They come to us in the middle of the night and incognito mode on their mobile phones, looking for information. I didn't mention our second website. We have a separate, totally educational website dedicated immense reproductive health that don't cook your balls. Brilliant. It's been very exciting to see it grow, and it's been very useful for us not only to reach people but to learn about people in what their thoughts are and what they're looking for. We built it simply because there just wasn't anything like it at the time that most of the information on the Web around male fertility is found on hospital and physician websites, which is great, except it's just not presented in a very approachable way. It's got bullet points with rather stodgy information and stats on it usually. So we said, Well, we're gonna approach us a little bit, Maura's. We would want to get it a little bit more conversational. And, yeah, there some humor and edginess in there. But that's all intentional, and it's to get over this awkwardness barrier around the topic. Okay, well, you know, if you're gonna understand your reproductive health, you get comfortable talking about semen and sperm and testicles and these things that maybe you're not really used to talking. Teoh. If you could put a joke in there, maybe that helps get that you want to keep reading. So it's been great. I think that's not a service. It helps. You know, we bring in a lot of experts, including some from your facility. There have contributed information and articles and videos and things that helped get the words out. A infertility is pretty common, but there's a lot that you can do about it. And the sooner you can do that, the better. You're gonna be

spk_1:   24:22
great. That's great that your company is being able to fill that void, bring more of a voice, more awareness to men, giving them resources. Whether it's both of those websites, your instagram account, all that research that you're doing, where do you see track fertility going in the next five years or beyond. We've

spk_2:   24:40
only had the product available in the U. S. Were actually on the cost of getting our international approval. So track will be going overseas soon, which are really excited about. We're always improving the product. So we've released a few new features and some more of calming. We've got some good research going around new tests and things that we can do with the platform at our core. As a company, you were really built around this technology platform for remote and point of care. Testing across a lot of fast of healthcare and men's health, especially, is just so dramatically underserved. So we want to expand the capabilities that men can do on their own or with a physician, or whatever the case may be to help more men get access to health care. You know, Bend I six years sooner than women. Men are just not taking care of themselves. And we think fertility and reproductive health and things that are motivating you early in your life are going to see long term benefits. So track is kind of emerging into a brand around helping engage with these guys at this very important very intimate, private special time in their life and leveraging that instill some healthier habits that we're really excited about.

spk_0:   25:50
I love that I'm so happy that we have. He was a resource to refer people to in a company really working to improve men's health and, you know, hopefully changed the dialogue and stigma around this space. I think it's so important. Thank

spk_2:   26:02
you. Kudos to you, too. This is a great podcasts and a great resource. I think the more things like this that are out there that are talking to people, educating the people is really what's needed, and you're doing in a very fun way. So I appreciate it

spk_1:   26:17
as anything else that you would like to add.

spk_2:   26:20
No, I think that's great. You know, we are small, We are

spk_0:   26:24
small, that Mahaney

spk_2:   26:25
dimple, and there's a real benefit to being small like that that were very approachable. I think of anyone has questions, don't hesitate to shoot us email or give us a phone call email addresses. It's simple. It's info at track fertility dot com, and we'll respond. We get back to our customers quickly, and there's definitely a human very committed to helping people in this space that we love to hear from people and help them out when we can. And getting that first test is what you're looking for. And I think we have a great option for those guys.

spk_0:   26:56
Oh, good. Thank you. Thank you. And we'll, of course, post everything about how to reach humor and going all of our social media and everything's that people would actually know how to get in touch with you. But then so great.

spk_1:   27:05
Thank you. So how we always end our podcasts are we discussed? Gratitude, But we're grateful for today. So, Greg, what are you grateful for? At this very moment? It could be anything.

spk_2:   27:20
Oh, well, I'm sitting in Minnesota. We have a 60 degree day. Still, so the snow hasn't hit yet, so I'm grateful for that. But maybe more. So today is actually my youngest daughter's first birthday.

spk_0:   27:31
Uh, everything. That's a name.

spk_2:   27:33
Her earnings, Elena. Thanks. So that's exciting. So we got birthday cake and cake smash coming up on. I will mention that I got three young daughters. Now that obviously you know the best part of my life, I think one of the most happiest things about what we do as a company is seeing those success stories. You know, my wife and I were lucky we didn't have fertility issues. But hearing the stories from couple who are out there who struggle with this, it's heartbreaking any. I can't imagine having these three little girls. When we get these success stories about men using the product, being successful, becoming a dad, it really is positive feedback. The best rewards we can have for, you know, I think a lot of times in a startup company, it's day. Today. It's a grind. It's a lot of hard work, uh, very rewarding in the end to see these success stories. And we're proud of what we've built here as a company. So I'm grateful for the head of the team that we have here as well. You have for one thing, you give you to money. But

spk_0:   28:31
now I love that I never have too many gratitude. We should all be so lucky. Trina. I'm grateful for people like Dragon for track for providing this and being out there being another voice out there trying to change the dialogue and someone you know Burger. It's so clear that you really, truly are so dedicated in this and really care. And I know that you guys really do answer emails and you really do care about your clients and that it's those stories that really do make you feel like your job is making a difference. And so to meet other people in this space who care so much as always something I'm grateful for because one of the brightest spot of my job, too, is seeing my patients and the difference you can make in somebody's life. So I love having resources and something else to give people to help them when they're also starting their journey. Dan

spk_1:   29:19
kind of a similar vein. I'm grateful for living in this era where we have these resources. We have this research where we are looking at both sides of the fertility world. That's not just women, it's also men. And knowing that there are resources and a great product out there for men that they can use in the comfort of their own home is incredible. You know, I wish I saw more male patients in the clinic because I do feel like it is a team effort and knowing that there is extra help out there and the resources and the guidance for men as well is something that's pretty remarkable. Thank you, Greg. Yes. Thank you. Thank

spk_2:   30:04
you so much. Wonderful. Well, you too as well. Thank you.

spk_1:   30:08
Thank you so much for listening today. And always remember, practice gratitude. Give a little love to someone else and yourself. And remember, you are not alone. Find us on Instagram at fertility. Underscore forward. And if you're looking for more support, visit us at www dot r m a n y dot com and tune in next week for more fertility forward.