Fertility Forward
Fertility Forward
Ep 149: Holding Onto Hope, Patient Advocacy, and Choosing the Right Reproductive Endocrinologist with Dr. Rachel Danis and Kristen Tomlan
So many women battle with having thin uterine linings when trying to conceive and today’s guest, Kristen Tomlan joins us today with her reproductive endocrinologist, Dr. Rachel Danis, to walk us through how she combatted this issue and brought two beautiful children into this world. In this conversation, we discuss what sparked Kristen’s courage to advocate for herself and seek a second opinion during IVF treatment, how she ended up working with Dr. Danis at RMA, why Dr. Danis was happy to work with her, and how she stayed strong through her infertility struggles. We delve into factors to consider when selecting a reproductive endocrinologist before hearing some insights into fertility treatment from both the patient’s and doctor’s perspective. Our guests even tell us about Kristen’s thin uterine lining, misconceptions about how thick it needs to be to carry a pregnancy, and remind us of the dangers of Googling information when undergoing fertility treatment! Finally, and as always, we share what we are grateful for today. Thanks for tuning in!
Hi everyone. We are Rena and Dara and welcome to Fertility Ford . We are part of the wellness team at RMA of New York, a fertility clinic affiliated with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Our Fertility Ford podcast brings together advice from medical professionals, mental health specialists, wellness experts, and patients because knowledge is power and you are your own best advocate. I am so excited to welcome to Fertility for today, Dr . Rachel Danis and Kristen Tomlin. Dr. Danis is a recurring guest and she is a reproductive endocrinologist at RMA of New York. We are so, so lucky to have her on the RMA team. And Kristen Tomlin is a former patient of RMA of New York. She is a designer by trade and a dessert lover at heart. She left her job as a brand strategy consultant after a traumatic near death experience with Stevens Johnson syndrome or to follow her passion for baking and branding. She founded Dough, cookie Dough confections, the world's first edible cookie dough confectionery and authored the bestselling cookbook. Hello Cookie Dough. Her favorite title, however, is mom to her 4-year-old daughter and five month old son, both results of years of IVF since selling her business in 2023. You can find Kristen redesigning her Brooklyn Brownstone, experimenting in the kitchen, hunting for the best tacos and margaritas in town and appearing on Fertility Ford with us. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to hear your story and how the two of you amazing women work together to help Kristen achieve her dream . So thank you both so much for coming on.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah ,
Speaker 1:Thanks. So let's get started. Yeah. Kristen , tell us about your journey. How did you end up here? How did you work with Dr. Dan ?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I originally was at a different clinic , um, when I started my IVF journey in 2018. And I originally went to that clinic because it was a recommendation for my OB GYNI had been having trouble getting pregnant and my mom actually went through menopause early at 33. And so I had some concerns that, you know, is that possibly genetic was, is that something that I would go through? I wanted to have multiple children but wasn't having success. So the first step was to do some genetic testing , um, with my O-B-G-Y-N and see if I was a carrier of a certain condition that would cause me to go into menopause early. And in that genetic screening they found that I was not a carrier of what they had initially suspected, but I was a carrier of cystic fibrosis, which kind of took us down this whole other path. They got my husband tested as well and his genetic results came back that he also was a carrier for cystic fibrosis. So we had almost immediately decided to go the IVF route to make sure that we had set ourselves up for success. Um, and really were able to screen the embryos for cystic fibrosis and make sure that we could build a healthy family. So I initially went to the first clinic because of the recommendation of my OB GYN. I didn't really do a ton of research to be honest. I just was like, okay, great, this comes as a recommendation. I have no idea about this process. Went there and luckily I did have success with my daughter. She is now four and crazy and wild as can be. You would never know she was an IVF baby or a preemie and went back to the clinic actually for when I was trying to have my second child and did not have the same success and had actually a very different experience my second time around, which ultimately led me to change clinics altogether and find RMA and specifically Dr. Danis . She was really the person that I was like, if I'm gonna do this again and start over from scratch, like she's my girl, I wanna go and have her be my doctor.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's so lovely. I'm so glad that you ended up here and had such a good experience. You know, I think as I'm sure listeners of the podcast know it can often be hard or feel tough to find someone that you feel like is a good provider that really gets you, that really cares, that's really invested in your process and I'm so happy that you were able to find that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too. I had really, I think at the point where I was changing clinics had really lost a lot of hope. My prior clinic had basically told me I wasn't gonna be able to get pregnant, that I should, you know, go the surrogate route and I thought, you know, I wanted to give it another shot and Dr. Danis really had a lot of faith and was like the best cheerleader in kind of starting a , a new cycle and trying different medications that my other clinic wasn't willing to try. So I know Dr. Dana can be more technical about all of the things that were the issues and what we were running up against, but yeah, I'm really obviously very happy I found her.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I guess you know for for people saying how did you know, you know, it sounds like you were at this clinic and they you know, sort of said no, we're not gonna keep going or you should do the surrogate. How did you know to sort of trust Dr. Danon ? What was that like for you to sort of hear a different perspective and to make the switch?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I just felt like there was still more things to be tried and the clinic wasn't really willing to try additional protocols. We had tried, I think I had five different transfer cycles, four of them which had got canceled. One of 'em which we did a transfer and it resulted in a chemical pregnancy and they weren't really willing to try anything different. And so I was like this is the definition of insanity, like trying the same exact thing and not getting results. So I feel like I need to go somewhere else and just start over fresh and I left one embryo behind to really just hope to get a new perspective and that's exactly what Dr. Dana brought to the table.
Speaker 1:Okay. So it sounds like you listened to yourself and your gut instinct and thought you know, there was other things to be done. Was that was under, was knowing that there were other avenues to pursue? Was that a result of your own research in the space to know that there were sort of these other things you could do that the clinic wasn't offering you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had done a lot of research. I had talked to my sister's, a physician not related to fertility but she had some friends in the fertility space that I spoke to. And so after doing some research and talking to them I thought, you know, if they're not willing to try something else then I think somebody else might have a different perspective. And that's exactly what happened. Specifically my issue, which Dr. James can talk more about was I had a very thin lining , um, and a lot of trouble getting my lining thick enough to even get to the transfer stage and we had tried a lot of different protocols to try and thicken it up without success, but Dr. Dana had a lot of faith in the process that we went down and just instilled a lot of confidence in me that this could actually work and I could get pregnant again.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. So <crosstalk> , I
Speaker 3:Hope I can take all this credit
Speaker 2:<laugh>,
Speaker 1:How did you know, what was that like for you to sort of see this case and what sort of spoke to you to say like No I think you know, we can do this, we should try this or you know, I have hope for you .
Speaker 3:Well, I'll start off by saying when I met Kristen she had proven not just fertility but alive birth. So I already was confident because she's done it before and that your history is the best example. So I guess what I kept thinking was, she's done it before, like let's try it again. I don't know why we're using like a textbook definition of what your endometrial lining or the lining inside of your uterus needs to be. We have data to show us that that's not always needed, that's not always a must to proceed with an embryo transfer and to conceive them . There are so many naturally conceived pregnancies in the world where we're not monitoring someone's lining. And then when I went through Kristen's record that seemed like there was a lot of testing done. I don't wanna misspeak of another clinic, I just don't know if I would've jumped to do all this investigation. I think I would've tried other maybe less invasive means to thicken her lining. And maybe that's just how I was trained. I'm like a very, I don't wanna say minimally invasive, but almost like less is more kind of doctor I was trained on the west coast so I think maybe that brought me a little extra flavor from the way I practice . I felt like there were still work that could be done to thicken Kristen's lining, but I also at the same time was like, she's done this before. It's not like her lining got so thick to get pregnant with her daughter. So like why are we aiming for something that's probably unattainable and it's worked in the past For Kristen I, her OB history is what I was like most reliant on. Okay . And I think I, I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna fix this, but like I'm gonna try like I don't see why we shouldn't try. I'm not giving up yet.
Speaker 1:I love that. I mean I think it's so often that I hear people either get, you know, they get discouraged because you know Kristen as I guess your experience at the prior clinic, you know as you said sort of the definition of insanity like why am I repeating the same thing over and over and you know, you'll have a physician that just won't think outside the box or they won't kind of go the distance with you. And it sounds like you know Dr. Dan , you found someone who, you know, she's not making false promises. I'm always wary of that where somebody, a physician, you know, our medical providers, you know says to you like if you do this, you know, I guarantee you can get pregnant. Like there's no guarantee,
Speaker 2:No there's no guarantees.
Speaker 1:Right. But you've found someone who said like, look, here's what I think we can do and let's do it and try this other route because I don't see why based on this data why it might not work. Not a great match in that
Speaker 3:I would, I would argue, I think I thought less outside of the box. I think what Kristen's her workup at the other clinic, whether it was biopsies or other types of procedures or intrauterine medications or maybe more experimental medication treatments. I was like, we're not, I'm not trying that. Kirsten , I don't know if you remember we talked about like Viagra, there's also data on intrauterine PRP, intrauterine lipid therapy .
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I had done it all.
Speaker 3:Like there's yeah, you knew it all and I was like, I'm not, we're not, I don't even know how to prescribe these things, where to buy them. I just, I don't know,
Speaker 1:You went back to basic .
Speaker 2:Um , but that honestly was , was kind of what I needed. Like she, yeah , the initial thing that we, when we first met she was like are you on vitamin E? And I was like, no, that's not something that's ever been mentioned to me. And she's like, okay well first of all get on like get on vitamin E that is proven to help, you know, potentially thicken lining and you know, why not not try something like potentially , potentially yes. But that was like something I had never heard and never was mentioned to me. Whereas like all these other treatments that were like, you know, a million dollars <laugh> or like I was willing to try anything but it was like the simple things that I almost had to go back to the basics and be like what is there something wrong? Is this just my body? Let's like, you know, kind of of start fresh and see where we go from here.
Speaker 1:And it sounds like you were willing to sort of listen and try and you were super open, you know, it sounds like you had a really tough journey though. How did you hang onto that hope? How did you stay strong during that time? You know, it's a lot to go through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I kept thinking the same like my body has done this once I got pregnant and nothing has, you know, fundamentally changed. Like I didn't have all of these potential issues that they thought it might be you Johnson syndrome after <laugh> . Exactly. <laugh> , thank God <laugh> . But yeah, so I kind of just kept holding on hope that like my family, I didn't feel like it was complete. I thought that my body could do this again and if not, like I wasn't opposed to going down another route like a surrogate, but I just wanted to give my body a couple more chances and just really held out hope that I was gonna have another baby.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. I think, you know, I think that's what can be so hard for people is how to hang on to hope and keep trying and keep pushing ahead because this can take such a toll.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 1:Also, I think the other question that I think people struggle with too and maybe you can provide some helpful advice is I think a lot of times people feel really guilty when they get a second opinion or if they wanna switch clinics and they feel like they're gonna hurt someone's feelings or the doctor's gonna be mad and that's really tough. Which I think lends, you know, a lot of people to either stay because they're almost scared to leave but they really don't wanna be there. How are you able to make that choice and make the jump?
Speaker 2:So during my, actually my like what was it, third or fourth transfer or transfer cycle, my doctor wanted to proceed with a transfer and I just wasn't really feeling good about it. I wasn't feeling good about where my lining was. I think it was like five millimeters , I was say you had a lot of fours in erect fours, it was like high four, low five. And so I actually went to go get a second opinion, not at RMA. I was able to get an appointment with somebody rather quickly and I did feel really bad about it. It made me feel really guilty like you're saying because she basically was like, I would not proceed with this transfer, this is kind of what I would do X, Y, Z. And I basically outlined like on my phone, wrote down exactly what she said and talked to my doctor and said, you know, this is the other opinion I got, I don't wanna proceed with the transfer. And I don't know that he was particularly happy with me doing that, but I think that also was more fuel for me to be like maybe this isn't the right doctor for me any longer. Obviously I'm so thankful for the success I had with my daughter with this clinic and with him, but I just felt like maybe I needed to move on and find a more supportive environment and just a different perspective and that's exactly what I did after my chemical pregnancy and just really his response to not being super , super supportive about trying different things or being available during like a difficult time for me.
Speaker 1:Sure. And I guess Dr. Dana , from your perspective as a physician, what would you say, you know, I'm , I'm sure in your career you've had patients you know seek a second opinion. What would you say sort of from your side when that happens to you? Do you like hate the patient, you know, for doing that?
Speaker 3:Um, I can't recall too many patients if it's dollar for dollar amount. Like oftentimes I think patients will leave 'cause of because of cost but this is so emotional and so like who am I to tell a patient that they can't get another opinion? I have been in situations where there are patients with an RMA that switch offices like Brooklyn wants to go to a Manhattan office and vice versa. And I'd be lying if I wasn't deep down hurt or offended. But also like I'm not the patient, there's patient autonomy and you have to do what works for you. Whether it's geographic, financial, emotional, we should be used to this. New York's a hot market and like who am I to say that the patient would have to get care with me? I am equally as trained as other colleagues. So I think when it comes time to pick a physician, you, it's not just about the training. We've all, ideally we're double board certified. We've done the same medical school residency, fellowship training, the same thesis, the same. I mean all of us have published at least a bit in our careers. So it's not like you're going to one provider that has so much more training than the other in reproductive endocrinology. And it comes down to I think your chemistry with the patient, your bedside manner and convenience. 'cause it can take years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think convenience, like I don't think that should be people's main driver for choosing their clinic or their physician. But I do think convenience is a big factor because you're there so frequently for blood draws and appointments that if it is so far away and out of your, you know, day-to-day kind of norm, then it does become difficult. And that was also one of the reasons why I had chosen RMA Brooklyn because it was much closer. The facility was, you know, brand new. I loved the idea of the port, it was very much, it was higher tech. I felt the whole like support staff was amazing from the financial coordinator to the nurses. I just, it was a much different and for me a better experience. So I do think convenience should be a factor in people's decision for choosing their reproductive endocrinologist.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great point because I think, you know, there are so many appointments and the process is already, you know, so overwhelming. So I think whatever you can do for yourself to make it easier. To make it easier. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. You know , but I think too oftentimes I think people don't realize too there's, there sometimes are ways to get around it. You know , maybe you can do outside monitoring so then you only have to go to the clinic for much fewer workups, you know. So I think it's always worth asking, you know, today's day and age . Yeah . You know, again, sort of telehealth, outside monitoring, there are ways to make it work and the worst that can happen is a clinic can say no, sorry, we don't offer that. So I think it's always worth, worth asking and , and stating your needs and wants. I think a lot of times people are afraid to do that and then they build a resentment and they don't share , um, whether it's against the clinic or the physician. Maybe they have an experience, whatever. But I think communication is super important and being able to say like, Hey, I need this. Can you give this to me? If not, okay fine, then I'm gonna think about do I need to go somewhere else or can I live with that? But I think communication is really key between both physician and patient. I agree.
Speaker 3:I feel like I have to say I didn't think I brought like any magic to Kristen's situation. I think I just went off of my ex training and I remember reading a bunch of articles when I initially met Kristen to freshen up on anything that I maybe could have missed in on endometrial resistance, which is the phrase that when we give people that we give people whose lining can't really thicken despite multiple agents. And coincidentally when Kristen was cycling our latest issue of fertility and sterility came out with a whole bunch of articles, which didn't really show us anything new, but it helped me feel better about maybe not trying something non-evidence based . Like I just kind of went with my gut. And I also reached out to my fellowship director since Kristen's case had a few different variables that I knew would be a hurdles as her provider. Is it okay if I talk about it Kristen ? Or
Speaker 1:Yeah, talk about, yeah, it's ,
Speaker 3:It's completely, I think it was like diminish lower ovarian reserve for her young age. Plus there were these non homogenous or these two different types of variants for cf which could technically be passed on and the infant not be affected with cystic fibrosis. But Kristen and her partner wanted to screen for this so I knew we were dealing with lower reserves, so less embryos to transfer in the long haul if the first one doesn't work. And I also knew we were screening out embryos if they carried two variants for cystic fibrosis. So needless to say, I wanted to consult with my fellowship director who was a past president of the American Society of Reproductive Medicine, shout out to Dr. Richard Paulson. So, but I still like wasn't certain I'd fix things. So I guess I just wanna say like I didn't do anything miraculous. I think I just, you know, I take pride in practicing evidence-based medicine and always reading and um, like asking for assistance when I just wanna feel more secure with my care.
Speaker 2:But I do think the thing that you did bring to the table was positivity and confidence that my body could do it and that I didn't need all these, you know, necessarily need all these crazy treatments that I felt like you were a great cheerleader for me. And that also is what I needed at the time as somebody that could just believe in this process, believe that it could work and kind of give me that confidence back because I had, you know, lost it along the way. And that research that you brought to the table was so helpful just to see that, you know, I wasn't the only one going through it and there is some success but
Speaker 3:You're not alone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not alone. And there is data that shows that you know, you don't have to have a nine plus millimeter thickness , um, in order to do the transfer that it could work for for some people and some people that's just how their body naturally is. And the other thing I think that was interesting that we kind of found along the process when we, we redid the genetic screening when we started with RMA, my husband and I and his CF variance actually, which was a variance of unknown significance. VUS had changed over the last five years since I had my daughter and had been reclassified as benign. But there were other genetic things that we found RMA found or the , when we ran the genetic screening. So then we were screening for more stuff and it was just really helpful to have a different perspective and kind of start fresh with a new protocol. It was amazing to me how much the technology had changed in, in five years from doing this with my daughter.
Speaker 1:Well and also I think Dr. Dana Stone sell yourself short. You know, it sounds like you, you know, you put so much time and effort in reading and research and asking for help into this. I think that's amazing. You know, I think a lot of physicians or a lot of patients can feel like a physician takes a very brief look at their case, makes a split second decision yes or no and that's it. And you know, it's very clear that you take a lot of time and effort and really look into cases, you know, do the research, stay up to date . And so I think that's incredible. So to just sort of say, oh I didn't do anything, you know, I think that's super humble but it's clear that you did do something right. You know, you pulled <crosstalk> .
Speaker 2:I agree. She did a lot. She did a lot <laugh> . Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I love the humbleness but I think it you did quite a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks. And it was really helpful, obviously it was successful.
Speaker 1:Yeah and and I think that's what a lot of patients too I think are afraid to ask physicians. You know like, well is there research? Can you send me studies? You know, I think especially here, we're so lucky, you know, as providers to work with women or patients that are super smart, they're invested in their cases, they wanna read studies, they wanna look at evidence. And so they ask for that. Can you send me research? Can you send me articles? And I think a lot of times people can feel that that's either that's really dismissed or they feel really shy to ask for that because I think our, our patient population, they really wanna be informed, they wanna understand what's going on. They wanna understand why they're being told to do something, why they're being told not to do something, why they're on certain supplements. And I think obviously the nature of healthcare, you know, with high volume of patients there isn't always a time to spend an hour with a patient. Right. You know, unfortunately that's the way our system works. But to send patients studies, to send them evidence, to schedule a follow-up call with them to talk about it, I think that's all possible and it's important for patients to ask for that. And if your physician sort of gaslights you or says no or isn't interested, then maybe you know, it's time to do what Kristen did and and find someone that is a better match for you that can meet you with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I felt like Dr. Janus was very invested and definitely like on my team, which was helpful in this process because that also is , is part of it. It's like it's such a mental gain , there's so many emotions involved and you want to feel like your care team is championing you every step of the way and making sure that, you know your success is their success as well.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:I mean we'd be nothing without success with patients.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's actually something when I first, I didn't know that you could look up clinic success rates initially when I first started IVF and so when I was considering changing, someone had told me, oh you can look up their success rates. And so I was like, wait, what? No one, why hasn't anyone told me that? And so I looked up success rates and RMA had amazing success rates, which um, was another reason why I decided to change to RMA of New York. Totally.
Speaker 1:I think that's so important to be informed and I think you're referring to the SART data. Yes, yes,
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah . Yeah. If for anyone listening you can access that SART SART and that's all out there and it's super important. Yeah. Find a clinic that has high success rates, you know, the data speaks for itself and I always remind people too, right, like the physician is as invested in this process as you are , they want success. You know, they're in this because they want you to have success. So it's really important to feel aligned in that. Yeah . What about, so either of you, any other advice or insight or tips for, from both a , you know, physician and patient perspective on the process and you know, finding a beautiful story of, of such a match between the two?
Speaker 2:I guess Dr. James, do you remember what my lining actually was when we went to transfer? I feel like it's, I feel like there's a lot of , it was
Speaker 3:Over over six. It was at least six. I told myself I wanted you to get to six because if you look at your stimulations doing IVF when your estrogen is so super physiologic or so elevated and when I looked back at all of your previous records, I knew you could get to six.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But, but six is still significantly under the recommendation. And I have had a lot of people, I'm, I'm part of a number of fertility Facebook groups and different networks of women who are going through IVF or struggling with fertility and there are a lot of women in there that have endometrial resistance. And I always provide my story just as a, you know, I've been through this, this is what we tried and what worked for me. And then I share that article that Dr. Dan shared with me just to give people hope And you know, like I said, we had success with my son and we transferred just just over six. And so there is hope for people that are dealing with the same issue that I was dealing with.
Speaker 3:But you also had success with your daughter. Like I don't think your lining was eight plus millimeters with your daughter if I'm not mistaken. And there's, I al I always will have this vision of Dr. Paulson, my fellowship director in my head saying the lining will thicken. It just maybe takes weeks and weeks and weeks. And I think by like four weeks of multi-agent estrogen we try and also I was trying to pay attention to what worked best for you. 'cause that doesn't always work best for other people. Like some patients of mine respond well to vaginally administered estrogen, some respond better to oral and it's not always about your serum or the amount of estrogen in your bloodstream 'cause that doesn't relate to the thickness. So it's like I think you can sometimes focus on your serum estradiol concentration but basically I think after like four weeks and your lining would kind of not get any thicker, I'm like okay, well this is it
Speaker 2:<laugh>. Yeah. But you also were willing to try other forms of estrogen that my other physician was not willing to try. Like the patch and his take was like estrogen in your body is estrogen in your body regardless of how it comes. And I felt like that actually wasn't necessarily the same thing, which is kind of what we found with trying a different form of estrogen and trying a longer course of estrogen than just the normal like two weeks. So
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess it's , it's just how I was raised. <laugh>. Yeah <laugh> . But I would say what people think is aligning, that's necessary. I was trained seven millimeters, I think some people are trained eight millimeters, but as that article that was just published a year and change ago says, we know there are cases that you can have a positive pregnancy and carry it to a baby with a four to five millimeter lining. So I knew if we could get to six then that was impressive compared to other cases out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Luckily we ,
Speaker 1:I I think what might resonate with people too though Kristen , and thanks for being so open. As I hear a lot, you know, people are told I think you know, pretty standard is the eight and people are always shooting like for the eight, if my lining's not you know eight it's not gonna work. I think a lot of physicians go off that and there's a lot of like fear mongering around that. But as you're saying like six worked for you and I think a lot of times the internet is not your friend with this. And so I think to share that that your lining it , it wasn't, it was a six but you still had success is important. I think people will really appreciate that. I think, you know, there is no one size fits all , you know as we know sort of, you know, this is medicine and we can go off data and we can go off statistics of course, but you know, it's not, the internet doesn't know. And so I think it's always important to go to your physician who really looks at you, really looks at your body and not go down the rabbit hole of like, well the internet says this
Speaker 3:As a physician. Like I want people to ask me questions versus assume answers from internet sources. And I joke with patients all the time, every time you come in and get your initial blood work what even if it's just an A MH , I always will write an email and explain the significance of a MHA long detailed email and I do that so people don't Google and then don't ruminate and then assume they're understanding the science. Not because I think patients can't understand the science, but like that's what you're coming to me for. That's what I studied so much to deliver. Yeah. From the physician standpoint I would say like we don't want you googling or reding or scrolling
Speaker 2:<laugh>, but I think that that's something different that you brought to the table from my previous experience was like you explained and brought the information so that you didn't have to feel like you had to go and go to Reddit and like go down this deep dark hole because you were providing so much knowledge and just information about the process and making sure that I felt comfortable and was asking questions, which isn't always how physicians are. So thank you for that.
Speaker 1:Well what a dream team. I am so grateful.
Speaker 3:Both
Speaker 1:You found each other. I'm so grateful you came on with <crosstalk> . Yeah, we
Speaker 3:Did <laugh>
Speaker 2:Me too.
Speaker 1:Share your message of experience, strength and hope. This really is amazing and I think will resonate with so many, you know, just about the importance of the relationship and patient advocacy and hanging on to hope. So I'm so appreciative for both of you for taking the time to come on. Your story is so inspirational Dr. Dana , you're so humble. Um, but it is clear you're amazing physician care so much about your work and your patients and I'm really so glad that two of you found each other because what a amazing, amazing story.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And for anybody listening to this that you know, wants to reach out, needs support, you can always find me on social media at Kristen Tomlin. I'm happy to talk more about my experience and just share some hope and be a support for anybody that needs it during this process. I know how hard it is.
Speaker 1:Oh that's so nice. That's so nice. So the way we like to end the podcast is by sharing something we're grateful for. So gratitude for today.
Speaker 2:I do . I go <laugh> . Yeah. Who wants to go first? <laugh> , I can go first. Um , yeah , you go first . Wife <laugh> . I'm grateful for Dr. Dan and RMA. I'm grateful for my two healthy children and I'm grateful for women in this community, including you all and physicians and others that just really rally around each other and support each other during the most difficult times.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I was gonna piggyback, I'm grateful that women have support because I think it's, I mean unfortunately in today's day and it's not looking like it's getting any better. I think for women we can feel really lost and alone and vulnerable during fertility and also just in general with GYN issues. So I think if we can kind of band together, increase awareness and just remind each other that yes, this is a struggle, but like we can be here for each other 'cause it's strenuous, it's really tough. So I'm just glad that we can be supportive to one another and more understanding and provide just some information and like help each other.
Speaker 1:It's amazing. And I guess I'll say that I am so grateful for this community as well and for communication and you know, women sharing their stories and physicians dedicated to the field and coming on to really humanize this process. You know, I went through this, gosh, almost eight years ago now, my daughter's almost eight, which is crazy. But it was so different. You know, I , so I started the process almost 10 years ago and it was just such a different experience. I was not at RMA disclaimer, I wish that I was because I know that my experience would've been so much better and it just wasn't the same at all. So, and that's how I got into this line of work because I wanted the experience to be better for people. So just so grateful for both, you know, women sharing their stories and helping to take away the shame and stigma of this process and then physicians humanizing this. So really grateful for both of you
Speaker 3:Not to open a can of worms. But I also, I remember when I first froze my eggs, I was , I felt like, I mean even sometimes still feel like this black sheep. I think for women it's just really hard there . We have so much pressure to balance career and personal growth, but like we're riddled with this fertility stuff and stuff is to be a nice generic, vague term <laugh>. So yeah, I just grateful that we can increase awareness and support one another. Totally.
Speaker 1:Well thank you both so much. It was so amazing to have you on and I'm so happy to share this with our listeners.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much for listening today. And always remember practice gratitude, give a little love to someone else and yourself. And remember you are not alone. Find us on Instagram at Fertility Forward . And if you're looking for more support, visit us@www.rmany.com and tune in next week for more fertility Forward .