Ever hit a pothole on the road to self-improvement? Well, strap in with Kat and Moose as we regale you with tales of life's unexpected bumps, from audio mishaps to the exhilaration of rediscovering our physical potential. Our producer Sara jumps into the fray with a headphone mic, proving that when the tech goes awry, the show must go on – and it does, with a guitar-led trip down memory lane with Melissa Etheridge's tunes as our backdrop. Plus, we've got the scoop on how a change as simple as moving more can reignite your zest for life and work, and why sore muscles can be a signpost on the path to joy.
If you've ever questioned the power of a good cry or the dance of delicate communication, this episode is your rhythm. With emotional revelations and a peek into the catharsis of tears, we unravel the threads of nonviolent communication and the art of expressing oneself. It's not just about airing grievances; it's a deeper dive into how we engage with our own emotions and those of others, particularly in the heat of conflict. And as if that's not enough, we'll connect the dots between Taylor Swift, Emily Dickinson, and perhaps most surprisingly, dinosaur footprints and a 'pickled' dinosaur brain.
Prepare to have your curiosity tickled with stories of prehistoric discoveries on English beaches and the enigmatic survival of ancient brain matter. We ponder over what it means to find such relics from a bygone era and how they stir the imagination. But it's not all ancient history – we also tackle the modern phenomena of "concierge moms" and what this says about student independence. So, whether you're in for the science, the self-help, or just want to hear about Iguanodon (or is it an iguana named Don?), this episode has something to pique your interest. Join us for a journey of laughter, learning, and the occasional musical outburst.
Ever hit a pothole on the road to self-improvement? Well, strap in with Kat and Moose as we regale you with tales of life's unexpected bumps, from audio mishaps to the exhilaration of rediscovering our physical potential. Our producer Sara jumps into the fray with a headphone mic, proving that when the tech goes awry, the show must go on – and it does, with a guitar-led trip down memory lane with Melissa Etheridge's tunes as our backdrop. Plus, we've got the scoop on how a change as simple as moving more can reignite your zest for life and work, and why sore muscles can be a signpost on the path to joy.
If you've ever questioned the power of a good cry or the dance of delicate communication, this episode is your rhythm. With emotional revelations and a peek into the catharsis of tears, we unravel the threads of nonviolent communication and the art of expressing oneself. It's not just about airing grievances; it's a deeper dive into how we engage with our own emotions and those of others, particularly in the heat of conflict. And as if that's not enough, we'll connect the dots between Taylor Swift, Emily Dickinson, and perhaps most surprisingly, dinosaur footprints and a 'pickled' dinosaur brain.
Prepare to have your curiosity tickled with stories of prehistoric discoveries on English beaches and the enigmatic survival of ancient brain matter. We ponder over what it means to find such relics from a bygone era and how they stir the imagination. But it's not all ancient history – we also tackle the modern phenomena of "concierge moms" and what this says about student independence. So, whether you're in for the science, the self-help, or just want to hear about Iguanodon (or is it an iguana named Don?), this episode has something to pique your interest. Join us for a journey of laughter, learning, and the occasional musical outburst.
Welcome to the Cat and Moose podcast. I'm Kat and I'm Moose.
Speaker 2:
This is a true life podcast where we explore the quirks of being human.
Speaker 1:
Hey Kat, hey Moose, hey Sarah Hi.
Speaker 3:
Can you hear me.
Speaker 2:
Wait, oh my gosh, you sound like you're far, far away. You're being a little dramatic. Tell everyone what happened.
Speaker 3:
Well, your dog tried to climb behind my desk and took my computer and my mixing board with it. Should I be yelling?
Speaker 2:
No, you don't think you need to. No, it's really kind of annoying, to be honest.
Speaker 3:
Got it. Okay. Now the plug. The plug that should go from my computer to my mixing board. There is no more way or port to plug that into the mixing board because it's now lost inside of the mixing board. Therefore I have no mixing board. Therefore my mic is useless. And now I'm talking to the computer.
Speaker 1:
Well, I want to say, Sarah, that even if the timbre of your voice doesn't sound like it normally does, your voice is just as important, and I'm really glad that you found a work around so that the three of us could do this together today.
Speaker 3:
Thank you, I do too. In fact, I just realized I'm actually using the microphone in my headphones, so we'll see how that sounds.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, can I just ask, can you just go with me really quick? Please do this, since things are super wacky. Could you please just give us a little something on the drums behind you, but I need it to be quick and fat.
Speaker 3:
Why it's not set up. I have cymbals on the ground.
Speaker 2:
Okay, just to let, but I could see them. They're right behind you on your snare. That's not good enough. Okay, thanks for ruining my heart.
Speaker 1:
Okay, I have a guitar back here. Do you want me to play you something on my guitar? Yes, please.
Speaker 2:
There she goes, she's getting it. She's getting it. Bring it to us.
Speaker 1:
Come to my window, crawling sideways by the light of the moon, Come to my window.
Speaker 2:
I'll be at home soon. Wow, that was great. If you're not a patron, this is the week to get your money's worth. Do you hear me? No, I didn't. I said if you're not. If you're not a patron and you want to see some weird shit on video that you don't get on the podcast, $5 will make you holla and this is the episode to get your money's worth. Yes, no, it definitely it definitely is.
Speaker 1:
It looks like you are breathing fire like a dragon moose. What's going on over?
Speaker 2:
there. I'm just lighting some incense up in her, so there's no negative energies. I really enjoyed your performance. Number one. Number two Fantastic. I remember being in college at a game night for some Christian event and somebody was talking about Melissa Etheridge and someone goes you know when she sings, come to my window. She's talking about a woman and you should have seen the faces of all the people sitting there.
Speaker 1:
I mean, this was in the like the year 1998, I think yeah, but that's what that song reminds me of yeah, it was like 1997 or 98, because when I played it in the Miss University of North Alabama beauty pageant as my talent competition, I didn't know Melissa Etheridge's story at that time.
Speaker 2:
Wait, would that have stopped you from singing? Come to my window.
Speaker 1:
Well, at least I would have considered it. You know what I mean, but it's like I didn't even know. And so it's like, after the beauty pageants over, after I've been like walking in my like purple swimsuit with my purple high heels, and after I've like worn my sparkly gown and sung my little talent song or whatever. That wasn't a Disney classic. I need a picture, so bad.
Speaker 2:
Oh, there's a video I've seen at Sarah. There were people.
Speaker 1:
there were people for weeks after that going dude, that was bold man, like that was great. Oh shit, they said it was awesome, yeah, and I was like why does everybody think I did? I mean, it wasn't even a good performance, the best I could do. But you know what I mean. It's like it. I didn't understand that I was making a statement for marginalized people and and I was happy for it.
Speaker 2:
Yay, Right, I mean you. If you knew you would have been fine with it. But what's interesting to me is the perspective that that song can't just be a love song or like a lust song, but it that people are like. No, it means women are coming to your window Like as if you sing it.
Speaker 1:
All the lesbians are going to line up at your window. Well, not just lesbians, just women. Come to my window and all of a sudden it's like my whole neighborhood's at my house.
Speaker 2:
He goes. You know she's talking about a woman and I was like I mean, maybe, but it's still a song. When Bruce Springsteen is seeing something, I'm not going you know, like oh, who is he talking about. But it was so funny.
Speaker 1:
I did wonder if he was seeing to that girl in the video for Dancing in the Dark. Oh, I don't know that girl oh yeah, he's like we should be dancing Like in the in the front row and then like like kind of toward the end of the video he pulls her up on stage and it's just like. I mean, it's really, really. I'm very passionate about these musical interleaves that built our lives. Yeah, sarah, you've been on the road. How have you been doing out there, good?
Speaker 3:
I'm getting. I think my body is catching up with the amount of walking and, like manual labor that the job entails, which has been good for me. It's been hard work, but good hard work, and I think it's just mostly walking Like I'm walking like 12 or 13 miles a day.
Speaker 2:
Oh crazy.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, it's nuts. And and that went from, like you know, I went from like 348 steps a day to like 26,000. And I'm not kidding. So my feet, my feet, recognize that and feel it, although I would say this last weekend felt a little easier and like I feel like I'm getting some stamina. You know I wasn't falling apart or anything, but it was definitely a shock, you know, to be like, oh, this is going to. I mean, I knew it was going to require a lot of walking. It's a lot of. You know their arenas, its concourses, and I'm going around and around and back and forth and up you know elevators and down around the concourse and it's just a lot of walking. But it's great. My, my body feels it in all of the ways, like when I'm sore, but I also feel more energetic and more like able to do it.
Speaker 1:
So yeah, it's been good. So do you think that that whole thing is happening, where it's like, well, you exercise more and your endorphins are more, and then you're happier more, and then you want to exercise more like is that?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, the whole Okay For sure it is like my water intake goes up all of all of the things that I need to do, just because I'm sweating and like my body screaming for more water. Well, now I'm deciding that I actually want it and you know, like I'm drinking it. I imagine that that's great, but no, yeah, I'm, I'm enjoying. Plus, I enjoy the work, like I. I have certain times of the day where I'm required to be somewhere, but the rest of it I get to be at well, and I'll say required to be somewhere and with with people where I have like a team of people that are helping me, you know, accomplish whatever I'm, you know setting up. But then I get a good chunk of the day where I just get to be by myself and like either do my job by myself or go take a nap or whatever, and so it's kind of great, like it's kind of the best of both worlds, you know, and I will say probably the biggest change, or maybe the most notable thing that I've recognized coming out is maybe my social side is coming back around, like showing herself again, you know.
Speaker 3:
So, as much as I'm enjoying the tour and the people on the tour, I am finding I'm just really enjoying engaging with the stage hands that I have each day, but also, like the venue personnel and staff that I'm interacting with throughout the day. It's just, it's just fun. I like getting to know people, and especially people that aren't used to being seen and, you know, talk to and all of that, and I just really enjoy it. So that's really cool. Thank you for asking. Yeah, I'm happy for you, sarah.
Speaker 1:
I was at an event last week where one of our clients taught a master class at Belmont University and I just went to listen and to be around and just to be supportive and it was really neat to me how many students and I'm talking like I could count them on one hand but how many students wanted to come and talk to me because of what my job was and what I did, and it gave me energy, Like it gave me life.
Speaker 1:
I was like I'm talking to complete strangers about the work that I get to do and like this reminds me of like, oh, like I can interact socially. It's like even though we're quite a ways away from 2020 and 2021 and 2022. It's like I think the effect that that isolating during COVID had on me is still kind of it's kind of healing or mending or whatever you want to call it, and I'll have these little little moments of going like, oh, actually like, like people.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, exactly, I couldn't agree with you more. I feel like there is a lot of like pre COVID and, to be honest, I feel like I needed whatever COVID brought for us. You know, I needed to go internally and really like whatever I silly, I don't know what the hell happened to me, but I needed it. And now I feel like the other part of me that's very social and extroverted gets a chance to kind of like peek back out and play, you know, but it's not, you know, and it's definitely you know I would consider it being on, you know, like I'm definitely on, I'm not performing, but it's very much like actively at work, actively socially. You know all of the above because there's definitely an off switch that happens at the end of the night, where I'm like I'm in the bus, I'm ready for some wine and I can't wait to sleep you know, yeah, yeah, but I'm enjoying it.
Speaker 3:
And then when I come home, I'm like I just want to be home with all my animals and, you know, my close people, and that's all.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's interesting to me, sarah, how this has become the Sarah and Kat podcast and we're talking about coming out.
Speaker 4:
I'm just enjoying it.
Speaker 1:
Well, we're just, I just think it's funny because, like, we're talking about like kind of you know, socializing and coming out of our shells and I'm just imagining Moose over there going. This makes me want to die, oh my God.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, what do you have to say, Moose? I'm just enjoying listening, you know, just catching up on what my friends are talking about. That's what I'm doing as far as social stuff? I don't know, but I will say there's not ever been a time in my life speaking of change and like all the things that Sarah just described, like there's never been a time in my life when I feel like I've worked harder, I'm figuring out what the fuck is going on and learning how to be myself and being okay with others and letting others you know, not worrying about what others think, Like I feel like I'm in this like cyclone of learning and it's like getting beat up every single day.
Speaker 2:
I mean you guys know what I mean. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. So when I was thinking today I drove to my eye doctor today and had my annual checkup with just my ophthalmologist. Like I've got several eye doctors but this is kind of the one, that kind of oversees like everything, and oh, you have several eye doctors.
Speaker 1:
Well, yeah, because I'm, because I'm really special. That's why, because I am a purple unicorn, I have several eye doctors and first of all, I adore his staff. Like they're so great, they're podcast listeners, which makes me so happy. And we were talking to the. I was talking to them today about how one of them said you know, kat, like you let the S word slip every now and then. And I said, yeah, I do. And I said, but just last week. I said, moose, let the word come out last week and she's got. She said, oh, I know, and it just made me like really happy because it's like I got to interact with people who are really cool, who also really love our podcast, who. It just made me feel good about being who I am and that was a really nice feeling and my whole point was that on the way there I was sobbing why Literally sobbing I have I have had the shittiest work day today.
Speaker 1:
It's just been a challenging work day and I'm fine and it's fine and everybody's fine. But you know, some days are just a challenge and and I just was at a place where I was by myself, I could cry and nobody could see me, and so I just grabbed three tissues out of my tissue box and I made them in a big wad and I just held it over my face in the parking lot and I was like whoa, whoa just like letting myself cry.
Speaker 1:
And I'm saying all of that for a really important reason. I'm saying all that because what happened in my head is I said, if this is what healing feels like, it's really hard. Yeah, yeah, exactly Because I think that what is happening is, I think that, like I'm becoming a better person, I think I'm becoming a better being, I think my whole mind, body, spirit is transforming, and it hurts man. So if you, moose, are working as hard as you've ever worked, like I'm just here to say, like you have a friend that's in it with you and and I really want to love you well through it.
Speaker 2:
Okay, so let's talk about what we're learning, though. Oh, okay, so let's talk specifics, what you don't have to say what happened in that situation, but like what, what are you learning? Like what is the left, because I'm always wanting to know the lesson, and maybe it's an ongoing thing, but right now, what is the lesson? Feel like.
Speaker 1:
It feels to me like I am learning how to be diplomatic and very honest. I can be oh good, that's good. Hi, that's Cat's Dog Belle. I feel like I'm pretty skilled at being diplomatic and being able to, like, say something that might be hard to hear to someone in a way that is is gentle and all of that, but sometimes, in that sometimes I don't think my point gets heard because I'm not direct enough, and and so my situation today is that I had an expectation that I didn't know how to articulate and it just escalated the situation, and what I learned from it is that what I should have said at the very beginning of the process is this is what my expectation is. Can you do it Right?
Speaker 1:
And and and I've I've just kind of like tap danced along the way and it's like I just that. That's hard for me. It's very hard for me to to say like I'm in charge and my challenge to you or my request of you, or the goal for you is to do a thing like can you do it or can you not? It's like that. I'm just not great at that. So that's one of the things I'm learning.
Speaker 2:
I think it's OK that you're not great at that I'm not really that great at it either, I can be honest. But I find it very hard to not think more about what the person's response is going to be, instead of just going I'll handle that when it comes. I mean and I'm sure that comes with empathy but yeah, it's hard to just be straight up direct. I mean I'm in a conflict management class, my final semester of grad school and I mean I am learning so much around conflict and why we do all of this, kat, like it's. It's pretty fascinating, one of the things. Have you heard that book I know all the therapists talk about it, called nonviolent communication?
Speaker 1:
Yes, yes, I have, and you sent us a quote. Oh, I did From it earlier this week. It. Do you have that accessible to share, because I thought it was one of the most brilliant things I have ever heard?
Speaker 2:
I think this is the one. But let me share two things. First, this quote, and this is really important Okay, what others say and do may be the stimulus for, but is never the cause of our feelings. Hmm, okay, wow, okay. So when to me that says you can't blame anybody, yeah.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, this piece, and this is from the nonviolent book, nonviolent communication book. It says when someone communicates negatively, we have four options as to how to receive the message. One blame ourselves. Two blame others. Three sense our own feelings and needs. Four sense the feelings and needs hidden in the other person's negative message.
Speaker 1:
Hmm, would that, yeah, go ahead. What Go ahead, well is it. Are they saying that that any four of those are good options?
Speaker 2:
No, not necessarily. Huh, huh, okay, and I think what's interesting about that is sometimes, in a negative way, we're so worried about the feelings and hidden needs and the other person's message that we forget it's up to them to tell us what it is they need. Hmm, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:
I think that is some serious learning moose. Yeah, it's no kidding.
Speaker 2:
Okay, tell me what you're learning. I just did. No, I know, but both of you like anything else that's coming up in your life where you're like this is fucking hard, but I'm learning.
Speaker 1:
One of the things that, um, that I'm learning right now is that, uh and I've always known this about myself, but I am learning it I think it's one thing to kind of know it in my mind, but I, I I am realizing it, learning it in my whole being is that I really really need to talk shit out.
Speaker 1:
I really need to talk shit out and I have to be careful who my audience is. Yeah, hmm, hmm, because because not everybody can handle when I talk my shit out, some people need me to say this is the thing or this is the thing, and some people are just great at like ping ponging back with me until I figure out, and in most of those people are like therapeutic type people. You know that they're like so how are you feeling? Say more about that, and like all of that kind of stuff. Um, so I'm learning how important it is for me to be a verbal processor and I think the other thing that I'm learning and I have felt like I've been in the season for a little bit now is kind of that, that season of like the caterpillar emerging out of the cocoon and becoming a butterfly like that, squeezing out that slow, painful letting go of what is old and embracing what is new, and I feel like I'm I'm learning that that is, that's uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:
It's uncomfortable and it's kind of like we we talked about a couple of weeks ago. It's like this is either me moving toward healing or moving toward death, or the answer is yes.
Speaker 2:
Right, you know, right and you know, in our Martha Beck Wayfinder coach training stuff they use that metaphor of the butterfly Um, and it's really interesting because if you try and help the, the thing come out of its thing you kill it.
Speaker 2:
We've learned you absolutely kill it, so it has to allow the process to take place, which is something I'm learning.
Speaker 2:
I'm also completely a believer in this spiral that we keep coming back to Um, because I've been trying to solve this problem for about three years now and it's a work related problem, but I can't figure it out.
Speaker 2:
Like I mean, I have flipped that Rubik's cube in every possible way to try and come up with a solution and I'm pretty damn good at it.
Speaker 2:
I've asked a lot of people, including you guys, and it hit me the other day that, okay, I legitimately cannot use my brain anymore to figure out this problem. I need to go into my body and I need to have a conversation with the universe and God and ask these questions of like, what is really going on here with myself? And and the minute that I turned my brain off and, like chose meditation over you know, just listening to music and trying not to think about the problem I feel like everything starts making sense, meaning I keep getting reminded of things from the very beginning and it's funny, like I feel like that there's something in the Bible about that specifically. But I feel like to back to the spiral of like, okay, sometimes we feel like, how did I get back to this place again and we've talked about well. You're at a different level of like learning now than you were the first time you were there, but yes, you're back at the same place.
Speaker 2:
It feels like, and what I'm realizing is the reason maybe not that we have to assign a reason, but it helps my brain is that the answers were always there. We have to go back and see those answers and go like oh, I've always loved fill in the blank, yet I have chosen not to spend time doing that forever, or you know it's, I swear there's like a Bible verse about like remembering something that God put inside of you. I don't know, but there's this idea of like remember, remembrance of right, and I think for me, what I'm recognizing right now in my life is I'm feeling that spiral where I'm like, why the hell am I back here again? And I'm seeing things that I had passion for, even as like a teenager, come back around and go oh, I thought that was over. I didn't think I had that dream anymore, I thought, and then I see it through a new lens because I'm 40 years older or whatever, I don't know.
Speaker 2:
It's pretty magical, honestly, and I think that's a good road path for anyone is like hey, remember what was in your heart at a young age, because so much of life is about. Hey, you shouldn't do that, that was just a dream, yeah, mm. Hmm, that's huge. Yeah, I mean, if God is inside of us, let's remember what God has done right and and like, not just for the sake of God's goodness, but the sake of our goodness and our dreams and our desires, and I think we don't always look at that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
So there it is. I have a few things to make sure you guys know what is going on in the world, because so a couple headlines here I'd like to share, starting with this one. So a couple things. If you've always wanted to be in a band, there's a Florida, based right out of St Pete Actually, music nonprofit called Girls who Rock, and it has a camp for grown women that would be people our age who want to learn to play in their first band.
Speaker 1:
Oh, isn't that fun. That's really fun, that's great. A Florida based music nonprofit, girls who Rock yes.
Speaker 2:
So if you want to learn to be in the band, look that up there in St Pete. Second thing I want to share is the dinosaur. Did you see this video?
Speaker 4:
No, I've come down this morning. On this gray, miserable day it's actually still quite beautiful to see these amazing dinosaur footprints my children and I found last night when we came on a walk. The tide and the heavy rains have washed a lot of sand away recently. I think there are sauripods, iguanodon and T-Rex footprints on the beach here. So let me know in the comments what you think these ones might be. And there is a whole set, one. I think this might be one here as well, not too sure, but definitely One, two, three. It's one here. You can't see very well Four, five, six, seven, eight, eight in a row dinosaur footprints here in glorious Bexel on Sea.
Speaker 1:
I mean, her kids are building sand castles. I don't know about that.
Speaker 2:
No, this is a real thing, kat. This is Vicki Ballinger. She's in the UK. They're on this beach and they found eight dinosaur prints. This is an East Sussex, england. The footprints are the most recent dinosaur footprints ever found in this area. Wow, there was a pickled dinosaur brain that was found there 20 years ago.
Speaker 1:
Explain what is a pickled dinosaur. So someone canned a dinosaur brain. I just said somebody put it in a pickle jar, I don't know.
Speaker 2:
OK, so that's one thing going on. Next, if you did know, taylor Swift is related to American poet Emily Dickinson. That was news to me, but also sort of makes sense. Wow, other headline Do you need your mom? That's right, there's a new thing called the concierge service and this is for moms whose students are at college, and these moms for hire are here to help with the student when the parents can't. So you could see here, here are some things that concierge moms do. Kat, you want to read that for us?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so concierge mom is a noun. Parents pay for someone local to be there for the college students when they can't. Birthdays, health scares, you name it. Example of what they can do Number one recommending a local doctor. Number two finding a wheelchair to rent for visiting grandparents coming to town. Number three delivered chicken soup if a student is feeling under the weather. What they won't do? Wash clothes and iron sheets and cook dinner.
Speaker 2:
But I'm like a little concerned about this because I feel like if we, I don't understand, isn't the whole point of college to learn to be independent?
Speaker 1:
I mean, I certainly think it is In those first three things the finding a wheelchair and finding soup when you're sick, and what was the first one? Finding a local doctor. That's also something Google can do, I agree.
Speaker 2:
I'm like who is hiring these people and what in the world is going on, mercy? Yeah, well, honestly, what do you think the pickled dinosaur brains is about?
Speaker 1:
Well, to me, in order to pickle something like you got to put it in a container that it can stay in for a long time, with vinegar and herbs and salts and spices and stuff like that. So I'm just wondering like, did another dinosaur pickle the dinosaur's brain? Because I don't think humans did that at that time. I don't think humans and dinosaurs existed at the same time, Did they?
Speaker 2:
No, I don't think so. Maybe some cave people, I'm not sure. Can you see my script? Nope, I just I'll just read it to you. How about this, the specimen? This is from 2016. Brown pebble turns out to be the first ever pickled dinosaur brain. I actually need to show it to you because I say it's back.
Speaker 3:
I just have to say that it had to be intentional. Somebody pickling a brain yes, that's what.
Speaker 2:
Kat said, so here's what it says the specimen is thought to have come from a large plant eater such as an iguanodon, a guanodon which lived 133 million years ago. Scientists believe the dead dinosaur's head was buried in mud at the bottom of a swamp, allowing its brain to be pickled and preserved In time. The soft tissues became mineralized, but the fossil retained distinctive features such as the. How do you say that?
Speaker 1:
I don't know how to say that word.
Speaker 3:
Merang.
Speaker 2:
The manine Men, meningees. Meningees, the meningees, a protective membrane surrounding the brain, blood vessels, collagen and structures thought to represent the outer layer of nerve cells or cortex. Look at this pickled dinosaur brain.
Speaker 1:
I'm kind of fascinated that a pickled dinosaur brain is like the size of my fist.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and it was called an iguanodon. I think it's just an iguana. I think it was an iguana named Don. I think that that's right.
Speaker 1:
I think that's right. Special thanks to our producer, Sarah Wee.
Speaker 2:
To find out more, go to Kat and Moose podcastcom. Kat and Moose is a BP production.