The Company Next Door
Allison Page (Founder of Trail Talk), Park City, UT
Today, Ete sits down with Allison Page, founder of Trailtalk.
Allison Page is a self-described "dreamer." She's got ideas. Lots of ideas. So many absorbing ideas that friends have warned, "we need to pull you off that cloud and into reality." Allison is also one heck of an energetic and optimistic go-getter, a doer, a woman who makes things happen. With gusto. The combination of these qualities has made her an entrepreneurial powerhouse. Plus, she's got an exceptional team behind her. She's got a clear vision. Turning her company, Trailtalk, into a national franchise is her mission right now. And odds are that she will do it.
If you've heard our episode with therapist Megan Perry, then you've already had an introduction to Trailtalk. If not, go listen to it. Seriously. Okay, great. So now we all know that Trailtalk is a practice that is "taking therapy off the couch and onto the trails." Allison believes in this idea passionately and in the company she's built around it, and with good reason. It's a brilliant (and effective) approach to therapy that people are responding to enthusiastically. Thus, the originally Park City-based practice is expanding. There are now affiliates branching out to other parts of Utah and beyond. Trailtalk as a national brand is the goal and really, it's not that far-fetched.
Allison truly loves Trailtalk. She talks constantly and passionately about it to absolutely anyone who will listen. Some of her friends have actually asked her to tone it down. For her, "Trailtalk doesn't turn off." Her excitement impels her to always be marketing, to keep promoting, to advocate non-stop for her brand of walk and talk therapy.
Allison Page is a Nurse Practitioner with a post-Master's certificate in Psychiatric Nursing. She grew up in the northern woods of Maine, and became a nurse. Recruited by Primary Children's Hospital, she made her way to Utah. She went to grad school and became a Pediatric Nurse Practitioner. She found a love for community and public health care, and a special passion for program development and a particular interest in the psychosocial dynamics of family. Even then Allison was a mover and shaker. She took it upon herself to develop several health initiatives including programs for cardiac patients, children with obesity, and homeless children. Allison found herself on the other side of the health care system when her own daughter became ill. She decided to put her career on hold in order to stay home to take care of her daughter. Several years later, she realized that she wanted to become a therapist. Back to school she went and made that goal a reality. During a stressful time, she went for a walk with her dog, realized the cathartic quality of walking in nature, and this was the beginning of Trailtalk.
Allison has learned a great deal during her life and career. Hear what lessons this journey has taught her and get a sense of her wonderful energy and optimism in this episode of The Company Next Door.
Today, Ete sits down with Allison Page, founder of Trailtalk.
Allison Page is a self-described "dreamer." She's got ideas. Lots of ideas. So many absorbing ideas that friends have warned, "we need to pull you off that cloud and into reality." Allison is also one heck of an energetic and optimistic go-getter, a doer, a woman who makes things happen. With gusto. The combination of these qualities has made her an entrepreneurial powerhouse. Plus, she's got an exceptional team behind her. She's got a clear vision. Turning her company, Trailtalk, into a national franchise is her mission right now. And odds are that she will do it.
If you've heard our episode with therapist Megan Perry, then you've already had an introduction to Trailtalk. If not, go listen to it. Seriously. Okay, great. So now we all know that Trailtalk is a practice that is "taking therapy off the couch and onto the trails." Allison believes in this idea passionately and in the company she's built around it, and with good reason. It's a brilliant (and effective) approach to therapy that people are responding to enthusiastically. Thus, the originally Park City-based practice is expanding. There are now affiliates branching out to other parts of Utah and beyond. Trailtalk as a national brand is the goal and really, it's not that far-fetched.
Allison truly loves Trailtalk. She talks constantly and passionately about it to absolutely anyone who will listen. Some of her friends have actually asked her to tone it down. For her, "Trailtalk doesn't turn off." Her excitement impels her to always be marketing, to keep promoting, to advocate non-stop for her brand of walk and talk therapy.
Allison Page is a Nurse Practitioner with a post-Master's certificate in Psychiatric Nursing. She grew up in the northern woods of Maine, and became a nurse. Recruited by Primary Children's Hospital, she made her way to Utah. She went to grad school and became a Pediatric Nurse Practitioner. She found a love for community and public health care, and a special passion for program development and a particular interest in the psychosocial dynamics of family. Even then Allison was a mover and shaker. She took it upon herself to develop several health initiatives including programs for cardiac patients, children with obesity, and homeless children. Allison found herself on the other side of the health care system when her own daughter became ill. She decided to put her career on hold in order to stay home to take care of her daughter. Several years later, she realized that she wanted to become a therapist. Back to school she went and made that goal a reality. During a stressful time, she went for a walk with her dog, realized the cathartic quality of walking in nature, and this was the beginning of Trailtalk.
Allison has learned a great deal during her life and career. Hear what lessons this journey has taught her and get a sense of her wonderful energy and optimism in this episode of The Company Next Door.
Hey everyone, what is up? This is Ete with another episode of The Company Next Door. Today I, and I say this every time, but I'm very excited because the company, the founder, I'm sitting down with the founder of Trailtalk, which, if you follow the show, you'll know a few episodes back, I sat down with Megan from Trailtalk who's who's an affiliate in the Provo and Heber area. And today I'm actually sitting down with the founder, the creator of it. And I got a lot of questions. There's a lot that I want to I want to kind of find out. And so anyway, we're here and so I'm excited for this in this interview, and I'm here with Allison in her office. Allison, how are you?
Allison :I'm great. Thanks, Ete, for having me.
Ete :Oh, very excited to have you. As I've listened to some of the pieces that I've picked up from Megan, I've realized that I think in the business side of things we have some similarities, so I'm hoping that you're gonna solve all my problems with this episode today.
Allison :Oh, absolutely. It's gonna happen. Yeah. Anything is possible, right?
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? Nah.
Ete :Okay. I still have a little bit of hope so, um, but just a brief introduction. So Trailtalk is basically taking therapy off the couch and onto the trails. And, you know, most people everyone at this point is familiar with the concept of therapy, of talking with counseling and, and I talked with Megan a little more in the specifics of the the CBT, the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and we talked about the stigma of therapy in the industry overall. And, and so I love I love the company, I love the name, the branding, and I think it's, I see this and I see it could be something, well, it is something great and I could, I could see it as something, you know, potentially across the US. But I don't know if that's your vision, but we'll get there.
Allison :Okay, yeah.
Ete :I, uh, too far. So anyway, what I'd love to find out today's let's talk a little bit about what let's dig into this Trailtalk. So Allison, you, you were in the nursing industry previously.
Allison :I'm a nurse.
Ete :You are a nurse.
Allison :Once a nurse always a nurse.
Ete :Okay. You don't leave that.
Allison :I'm a nurse.
Ete :Okay. And were you in the mental health space?
Allison :No, actually, I I got my four year nursing degree in 1980. And when I was a youngster, I wanted to be a midwife in the northern woods of Maine. I was a real hippie back in the 70s. And just really loved to be outside and really wanted to bring babies into the world. And so I worked with a midwife and I'm like, that's what I want. I want to be a midwife in the northern woods of Maine. And then I also was, hadn't traveled much. I grew up in northern Maine, I grew up in a pretty poor family. And I had the opportunity to travel and go anywhere as a nurse because in 1980, there was a nursing shortage. So I went to a job fair in Boston with a bunch of nursing students. We're in our senior year. We hadn't taken our boards. And back then it was writing three days in a gymnasium, handwritten. You didn't find out you you passed your boards for six weeks. So we were in Boston and Primary Children's had a recruiter there. And I'm thinking, oh, that sounds pretty cool. I could travel across country. What's the worst that can happen? I don't like it and I come home. And I was in Maine and I thought well, the only place I'd probably go is Boston but Boston's a little too big. So I I got recruited by Primary Children's they're like, Yeah, come on out to Utah. We'll pay for relocation. It's like, yeah, game on. I took my boards. A few days later, I thought, I guess I'm just going to go and if I pass my boards, great if I don't, I'm going to go back home and I'll be a florist. You know, I was I was a you know, looking at the glass alwaysâ
Ete :Seems like your pretty open toâ
Allison :I haveâ
Ete :âtrying things.
Allison :I'm pretty optimistic a little bit too much. I've got a little bit too much of a Yeah, I I look, I have vision and I'm a dreamer. And if that doesn't work, I try something else. So anyway, I got my little Gremlin my is yellow. I call it the rolling banana. That was my handle. And this car, no maintenance at the minute I got the car. Never. Oh, it needs oil? Oh, well, you know. So anyway, I made it out to Utah. Travelled around the country for several weeks, got to Primary Children's and started work October 6, 1980. And they put me into newborn ICU. And I'm like newborn ICU? And then that was the first time I saw that babies aren't big and fat and pink and was I like, I'm not gonna go back to Maine and be a midwife for the northern woods of Maine. And that's when I realized that I was, I really, really liked community health and I really wanted to be in the community. And I started moving towards that and then two years at the hospital, I moved into cardiopulmonary lab and was working with a cardiologist developing exercise protocol for kids post cardiac surgery, and then during that time, money came available through the federal government to encourage nurses to go back and get their advanced degrees in nursing. So I did that. And in '83 I started grad school. '83? '85 and got out in '87 as a pediatric nurse practitioner, and then I went into the community and realized that I loved community health care, public health. And then I really found my, my passion was in program development. So the my nursing career has been incredible. Every job I've had though, I've created it. I kind of came up and and that's the thing with moving to Utah. I couldn't do the same things back east, but coming to Utah back in the '80s. It was like it was it was a new frontier. Yeah.
Ete :Cause growing up, I'm also from these coast, and then coming, you know, coming across the country, it's such a different experience.
Allison :Oh!
Ete :What was your impression when you got here? Were you just looking around? Like, what are these big tall things covered in snow?
Allison :No. I was like, why didn't someone tell me there was sun every day?
Ete :That's how I felt.
Allison :I mean it was likeâ
Ete :I felt cheated.
Allison :I know. It's like, I people actually live with sun?
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :And so when I came out here, and then that the thing that really got me was I was in this, this house that primary children's let me live in for a month. And I left a sofa outside that was a fabric, like had fabric and then and when I woke up in the morning, I'm like, oh my gosh, it's gonna be ruined because of the humidity.
Ete :Humidity, yeah.
Allison :And I came out and I touched it. It was dry. I was like, Oh my, it's dry.
Ete :Isn't that amazing?
Allison :And so the humidity and and then mosquitoes. I'm telling you. This is the universal sign in Maine after six o'clock. It's like you just have to, you knowâ
Ete :Just constantly swat.
Allison :Yeah. And so it's like, there's no mosquitoes. There's no humidity. And there's sun every day. And I forgot to go home.
Ete :What's funny is I I'm the same way. 100%. I actually meet people say I love humidity or that I'm like, there's no. Like, I love the East Coast.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :You know, my heart will always be there. And I go every year mostly, but those three things.
Allison :Oh.
Ete :No, thank you. Done.
Allison :Yeah, yeah. And I, I, I love the woods. But I love to look, I like the vastness. I like to be up and look in it. And I do love like when I'm in when a mountain biking. I love the some of the trails that I'm deep into the forest. It just feels like home.
Ete :Yeah, yeah.
Allison :It's like this brings me back to Maine.
Ete :For sure.
Allison :And then when it's an inclement day, it's like, oh my gosh, bring it on, a thunderstorm.
Ete :Yeah, I do miss rain.
Allison :I do. And I love inclement weather because it reminds me of home, and I get to stay inside because when I first got here it was like, when does it rain? It never rains. It's like I I have to be outside. I had to be outside and I still am like, do I, have to be outside.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :And and and so I never get anything done for first 10 years I lived here, it's like, I'm outside. You got to stay home. I can't, another, another sunny day I'm making up for lost time.
Ete :So let me ask you this. So yeah, you end up in Utah, you got the nursing and you. And now you said you'd like to do, like. Sorry, I can't remember the word. You didn't say systems, but it was organizationalâ
Allison :Oh, program development.
Ete :Program development, which, it sounds like all these things are kind of preparing you for what you eventually go on to build.
Allison :Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ete :In some ways, in some odd ways. So how do you get there from there to how did you start Trailtalk?
Allison :Yeah. So I've actually done a fair amount of introspection and therapy and looking back of like, how did I get here? And when I was a teenager, I was really, I really didn't understand why people stopped playing. Because it was like, okay, when you turn 18, you stop playing, I don't get it. So, so I would just, you know, you know, in Jersey and Maine, it's like everybody would like let's come over to the house and have dinner and sit down and do nothing.
Ete :Yeah, all night.
Allison :It's like, okay, I can't do this. I you know, it's like why aren't we playing?
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :And so I started writing papers about it in high school. So I it was about why did people start playing, and then I go into college, and I started getting involved, when I was a first year nursing. I had a work study job. And it was working with a, it was a cardiac rehab, and it was getting people that hadn't been active who had cardiac surgery to, to walk. And so I was this young nurse taking their blood pressure. So I started this journey of mental or physical wellness as a young nurse. And it also involved we got to move our bodies, you know, and so I it started then, and then I am like a big time dreamer. And I have ideas and it's like, my mother would say, oh, here comes another one Allison's ideas. And most of the time, everybody's like, hey, and nobody listened to me. But then when I moved to Utah, and I went back to grad school, I did my thesis on it on childhood obesity. That was my focus because I had a sister who was morbidly obese, didn't play, didn't move, because we were too busy sitting around talking, doing nothing. And so my thesis was about a multiâoh, I got the thesis right there, multi dimensional weight management program. And so I worked with a friend who was a dietician and we created something called Family Food Fitness and it's a program that still exists at Primary Children's.
Ete :Oh cool.
Allison :And I spent my, during my thesis I realized 90-98% failure rate because it had nothing to do with just eating. It was some psychological issues behind the scenes and there was coalitions with mom and a child and so that's when I started thinking like, wow, this is the psychosocial dynamics of families really started to intrigue me.
Ete :Wow.
Allison :Yeah. And then I moved into I after that I started the Homeless Children's Health Promotion Program. I recognized that homeless kids weren't being cared for I was volunteering at the homeless shelter. It's like I'm gonna see if I can get some money and start a program and then I applied for a grant I you know so again this program development stuff it's like I saw I had an idea I got a dream.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :Well, what started happening with that is people like that's a great idea. And I'm like what? Someone actually is going to listen to my idea?
Ete :Yeah, not just dismissing. Here's another Allison idea.
Allison :It scared me it wasn't just in this Allison idea was a good one. And so then I started working at the homeless shelter. Spent eight years developing this program. Wrote some articles for national journals. Then I then I ended up getting married, having children, taking care of sick parents at some point in my life. And, and anyway, again, life happened and I had to transition and then time goes on. My, I had a sick daughter for a while. She she ended up at the hospital so I ended up being a parent for a year inâYeah. Living in a motorhome outside while she was sick. But she recovered. 10 surgeries later, 10 years. She's a whippersnapper of a young woman and involved in public policy. And so anyway, when my kids were probably juniors and seniors in high school, I had I felt like, they're going to be graduating, I'm going to be an empty nester, I got to do something because I took 11 years out of the workforce because Julie was sick. And I had to, I had to, it worked much better for the family for me to be home and care for her and the kids. And kept very busy during that time. I do a lot of nonprofit work for no pay, but it was a great, great segment of my life. So when they were in high school, I thought, you know, I want to be a therapist and somebody had said they were going to be a therapist. It's like you know, I've always wanted to do therapy or look at the social psychosocial dynamics of, of the families like I'm going to go to grad school. So I went back in. I decided to go into the nurse practitioner, I mean, into the nurse practitioner program and get that they call it a post master certificate because you can't get two masters from the same university. It's some kind of legal thing. But the second time around was so much harder.
Ete :Wow.
Allison :Because when you're 23, you think you know everything. You're just like, I just like, what the sky's the limit. You know, here I'm in my late 50s. And my son's like, boy, Mom, this is gonna be hard for an older learner. And I was kind of insulted. I'm like, and then I realized he's right, because I know what I don't know.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :You know, and so the second time around, it was intensely important to me, but oh, man, it was very, very wonderful. So they go off to college, and my last semester in graduate school, I was so stressed out and here I am, in therapy, doing therapy trying to teach and talk to people about self care and and I'm a wreck. I've never been more stressed out since my daughter was ill and you know, just. And so I went out for a walk and in the snow with my dog, I had snow shoes, and I'm walking and then all of a sudden I reach a point and I look out and look at this beautiful vista in the neighborhood I was in. And I'm like, oh, this is just so this is so cathartic. This is where I find peace. And then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, my gosh, this is brilliant. I'm going to do this with my clients. So I snowshoed home real fast. I get on the internet, and I put in walk and talk therapy. This is back in 20â. 2009â
Ete :Okay.
Allison :â2008. Something like that. Right around there. And I found this guy in New York, and he was walking and talking in Central Park, and I called him up. I said, I gotta talk to you. I got, I want to do this. And so we had a great conversation. He says, Oh, this is excellent. Lost 50 pounds. It's the start of, my wife's happy as a clam and I'm having a blast. And so I just kind of asked him some questions and at the time, I was thinking I'd call I really like Robert Frost and his poetry. I was gonna call it Walk in the Woods and then it's like, well, that doesn't quite work and I, I swear I woke up one morning and said it's Trailtalk, and then I just started trademarking it.
Ete :Wow.
Allison :And I thought, I'm going to be a therapist. I'm going to do walk and talk and I'm going to bring therapy outdoors.
Ete :So so yeah, you not only do you become a therapist, but you got into business.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :Now you're out there an entrepreneur in your 50s.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :Building a company. Now, so let me ask you this because Megan had also mentioned in the in the interview that you were a visionary. She goes, ah, she's a dreamer. And I'm Megan says, I'm more of a I like to get it done.
Allison :Yeah. She's an administrator.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :She's like task oriented.
Ete :And so I can relate because I'm the same way. I have. I am. I have so many things going on in so many different directions.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :Sometimes my wife is like just another, you know, it's hard.
Allison :Another one of your great ideas.
Ete :Yeah, yeah. So it's hard sometimes. What was that like for you? Because people do look at you sometimes like dude. just focus on one thing. Or, you know, did you have to deal with a lot of like people kind of, cuz you mentioned earlier, you know, this idea that why did we stop playing? Or you could replace the word playing with dreaming?
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :You know?
Allison :Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Ete :What was that like for you always having these ideas and then people around you just saying, meh?
Allison :Wow, I gotta tell you this kind of a funny story with having people say, I had a lot of friends and people say, you got a we got to pull you off that cloud and get into reality, you know, you always have the cart before the horse. And so there was a situation where I was working with this group of teenagers it was through a local church and I, we had a great idea. We're going to go to Africa, and we're going to do a mission trip. And we're going to raise all our money. We're not going to write letters to people and say, give us money and trade money. And you know, I'll send your kid on a trip if you pay, you know, it's like, no, let's, let's make money. Let's make our money. And we'll all have money and we'll buy plane tickets, go to Cape Town, go to Johannesburg, we're going to nail it. Well I tell the parents this and they're like, What is she talking about? So I had five, five seniors in high school, and our juniors and, and we're like, we're gonna do it. And so we I was going to do this. I am crafty. I like to make things you know, I'm kind of a ad lib kind of artist, you know, but I have fun doing it. It was like, we're gonna be craft fair, Christmas time craft fair. And so it's like, and we're gonna make, we gotta, we gotta make $3,000. Like, yeah, let's do it. And so then I had a mother who happened to be a, an IT person, numbers person. She says, well, in order for you to make $3,000, you're going to have this many pieces. And I'm like, Yeah, I can't do that. I've got to just, we just got to put it out there. And we're going to go for it. And I just couldn't do that part of it because that's how I think.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :It's like, come on, let's just get the energy going and people will donate ,they'll buy something and say we are We have a $50 price tag, but maybe they'll give us $200. Well, it turns out we made $3,000. But that mother was so stressed out because she didn't. I just thought differently.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :And she, if I, if I would have listened to her, I would have said, Oh, you're right. There's no way we're going to do it. Just end of story, you know? And so I've I've had to, I've had to really learn how to get the cart behind the horse. But it's taken me a long time to figure out how to use both sides of my brain at the same time. So how do I how do I maintain my dreamer, be the visionary, but then, okay, now we're going to talk numbers, and that's been the hard part for me is I've got great ideas, but now I'm in charge of the purse strings and I've got to really be cognizant of how I budget so that's been really challenging.
Ete :Do you enjoy because you know, there's the I forget who said it, but there's the why the why person and the how person right? You're the why, right? Here's the vision. Here's why. Somebody else can come in like Megan says, she's more of the how person, take the vision. Do you enjoy the how side of it? Do you enjoy being in the weeds and the physical parts of it?
Allison :Well, that has been something as a small business owner that I've had to learn. And so, at the beginning, I really had to seek out wise counsel, I had to find people and I had a lot of friends that were, you know, venture capitalists and people that were in business and, but I just felt like, I got to talk to you. And all I wanted to talk about was Trailtalk, and everybody loved it. But after a while, it's like, Can you just kind of stop it? It's like, I can't, I'm just so passionate. So then I had to seek out some true business mentors that didn't know me, but could give me some counsel and I had this one business mentor, say, Okay, here's the deal. You've got to you've got to think about, you've got to use your left brain. And don't be afraid of money. Don't be afraid of talking about money, but it's a new language. And you're going to have to learn to speak it not maybe not fluently, but at least you're gonna have to have some literacy in the area of finance and other areas.
Ete :You need to know enough toâ
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :âmake good decisions for the company.
Allison :And know how to surround myself with the right people.
Ete :Yeah. The human psyche, the brain. You've spent a lot of time analyzing, studying. Why do you think you're that way? Why am I that way? Is there a difference between me and the other person? Why can't I just chill? Why am I Oh. You know what I mean? Have you? Is there a scientific?
Allison :Oh, yeah, there is, you know, we all have, we all have a genetic signature, right? So that you have happier mom's cake recipe, happier dad's cake recipe. That's your genetic makeup, your genetic blueprint, right?
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :[cough] Excuse me. And then you have siblings. Do you have siblings?
Ete :I got five.
Allison :Yeah. So so you have the genetic similar or same genetic signature, very different life events. So you were different grades. So you had different coaches speaking into your life, different teachers, different time in your parents relationship and their their journey themselves, how much energy they had to parent you depending on what, where you were in your birth order, right? So you have genetic signature, and then you have life events. That's called nature/nurture. Right? You could look at it like that. But, but your genes are expressed based on your life event. So you have five kids in the family.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :And everyâ
Ete :All different.
Allison :All different. And and they have very different life events. Well, if there's a traumatic life event in one of your siblings, and trauma can be a lot of things, bullying, you know, there's all kinds of different types of negative life events, right? So, some negative life events in certain stages of development, like junior high, high school into college, those genes become expressed. So your gene expression happens in some family members, but not others. So it's like, why is Johnny like this? And I'm like that. The other reason why is every single person has a temperament and your temperament is set in utero. You know, a lot of times people say anxious mommy makes an anxious baby. You know. And then again, your parents and your their ability to create a secure base for you, depending on where they were with their work and how involved they were in siblings taking care of siblings, but temperament so I have a very different temperament than my sisters, just different kind of people, I was in. So when you have babies, it's like some babies are hard to warm up. They're just not easy to snuggle. Others are just easy babies, you know, that's, that's temperament. You know, that's and then that temperament can be and then over time, you develop your schema, and people speak into your life. So you make decisions at age five, like, well, I guess I get a lot of love because I do it like this. So we, you know, we everybody wants to be loved, especially by our primary care providers, right? And so that's how we we develop our schema over time. So, nature/nurture, genetic signature, life events, some people's life events will express certain genes. So that why someone in the family, baby, like why are they so different than me?
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :Get what I mean?
Ete :Yeah, yeah.
Allison :Temperament.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :We're born with a certain temperament and it was nourished, and it was encouraged. And nobody busted your bubble. You know what I mean?
Ete :There's a book. I don't know if you ever heard of this book called Unthink? I can't remember the author. But the principle of the book was what kind of kind of what you're saying, why do we stop playing? He believes that we're all born as these creative individuals as kids, right? You watch it, you watch your kids and their, you give them a straw and they're goodâ
Allison :Yeah. Yeah.
Ete :âfor three hours. They're making up stuff. And then the life, life just kind of gets into and beats him down and we lose that creativity. And his belief is if we could get it back, we'd be more whole, we'd be more fulfilled. And life would be better all around.
Allison :Yeah, it's it's the age that I love the most is the age of innocence that the 3,4,5 year olds before they get on the bus, when they get on the bus and they learn potty talk.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :They learn everything. It's like, end of innocence. You know. So it's sort of like when society, when they start getting tainted and and start looking at this their culture in the society around them and the judgment and and that you're not okay the way you are, you know, but again, every family system, so that's why in Trailtalk I really push family systems. You can you could do individual therapy but, boy, it's really you can't take someone out of a family system, fix them and put them back in.
Ete :Sure.
Allison :It's really family systems. So if you think about you growing up in New Jersey, why you are like you are now. You would be in, your creativity and your ability to be who you are, was being encouraged and nurtured. And then other times it's like, like I call my daughter a whippersnapper. There are some kids that start questioning at a young age and that's just their temperament, their curiosity, their level of intelligence, like, I'm not buying this. I don't this this, this is wrong what the teacher's teaching me. I want to question. You know, some kids are very curious and if that's nurtured, then they're going to have a voice If not, they they stop using their voice, they stop trusting their intuitive self. And I give this example of so so so when I talk about intuition, your, your gut feeling I gave, give an example. So my son one day I'm working, I'm like working at the shelter. I'm heading downtown. I've got a big job going on. And I got two toddlers and my four year old says, I'm saying, okay, hurry up, finish breakfast, grab your backpacks, we gotta go be in the car. And my son turns to me and said, Are you angry? And I'm like, No, I'm not angry. Just get your stuff done. We 've got to get out of here. And you know what he says? He says, you, it feels like you're angry. And so if, and I did, I turned to him and said, You know what, you're right. I'm sorry. I'm rushing.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :But you are feeling the right thing. But if you don't validate that kid's like okay, Well, it feels like it but she says not I guess I have to believe her words. And then we stop trusting our intuitive self. Get what I mean, that validation?
Ete :Absolutely.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :And then we start losing that, like creativity thatâ
Allison :Yeah, like I can't trust that what I am going to do is going to be accepted. And I don't know if I dare and then we start fear, fearing failure, judgment, you know, so a lot of people just squelch their creative self because like, ehhh it's not that good.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :You know, I mean, I've put out stuff and I've had people say, Boy, you know, I have this trails talk book, and I did it as like, I love to take photographs. I know that I, Iâ
Ete :I saw it. Like Park City, like, on the trails, images.
Allison :It's a walking meditation. Yeah. And so I understand lighting. That's about all. I don't I have no interest in getting in in a darkroom. So it's like, give me a camera, I know lighting. That's all I know. So I've taken a lot of great shots. So I'm thinking I'm going to put together this book and it's going to be my, part of my marketing. And so I met with this marketing guy. And he's he's like, yeah, I think you need to hire hire someone that can really take photographs. These are not very good photographs. I'm not kidding you. And I'm like, ah, they're not? I just got told by a marketing guy that these are not, hire someone, this. And they're like, well, that that's the whole point is that it's my path. I'm kind of combining what I love. It's sort of like a bucket list kind of thing. And so but when after he said that, to me, I'm telling you, it's like, he put up a needle into my balloon and I couldn't do anything for three months. For three months I believed him. And then after that, I thought, oh, screw that.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :I'm resurrecting this. He's wrong. But but I, I believe what people tell me at first and then it takes me some time to say no, get your mojo back. You can do this, you know, you know, challenge it if if, What's the worst that could happen? It fails.
Ete :Right.
Allison :You know?
Ete :And you're right. We need we need that validation internally. A lot of usâ
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :âbut also you need some amount of externally especially when it comes to to building a company like Trailtalkâ
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :âbecause you need to make sure it's good.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :And I'm glad you didn't call it, what was it, A Walk in the Woods?
Allison :Yeah, yeah.
Ete :Because I just, I don't know. I've told many. I'm like an advocate for Trailtalk. And I've told many people about it. And within five seconds, it's funny, everyone says, oh, that's, that's, that's fantastic. Yeah. And I think I think the name, everything's great. So let's talk about building this company. So you have this vision, and the all the pieces of your experience are starting to come together and you're going, Okay, this is what I'm gonna do. And you call this guy in New York. And you which that will, you weren't you're not afraid to do things.
Allison :No, I just, I just, you know, I'm not. I really, I really am not.
Ete :I love that. That would stop a lot of people.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :So you call him and you're getting some ideas?
Allison :Yeah. I called him up. I said, I love this, you know, and I said, Would you come to Utah? Let's do a project together, you know, and then and then I'm like, okay, what's my next step? Well, I gotta get some money. And then I'm like, and then it being in the nonprofit world. I thought about grants, what could I do and then remember the Goldman Sachs program that helps entrepreneur? Yeah, I applied for them to twice, I get rejected twice. It wasn't big enough but I just and then I went to someone else and and I just kept pounding the pavement. I'm old fashioned. I'll go talk to people. I grew up in the medical community. So it's like pharma pharmaceutical reps, what do they do? They go to offices, they walk in and get in the cars, they sell them. And I tell you, I can sell turnips to turnip truck drivers. That's an old mean, saying, because when I'm passionate about something, yeah, it's just like, Oh my gosh, I can't stop. And so I thought, Gosh, I miss my call. I could have been in sales.
Ete :But better. Yeah.
Allison :I and I love nursing. I love I love nursing. And but I've taken I've kind of taken nursing in a different direction, and it's been in the community. And then I moved into mental health.
Ete :What was the original vision? Because I know now like you said, You've got we'll talk But that later the company is spreading. But what was the Did you have like a picture when you were starting trail talk is going to be just me or what was the original vision?
Allison :Oh, so I'm thinking because again, I got a million ideas, you know, and I'm like, okay, I think this one's a good one. This is a really good one. This might be brilliant. And but I'm a little homeless, like, oh, be careful. You know, it's you get a lot of these ideas. And then I thought, Oh my gosh, this is what I want to do. I want this is this is play. This is going to be combining our my vocation with you know, and so I have this tagline, where it's "nursing theory meets wilderness therapy." So I had this idea that I'm going to align myself with the wilderness therapy community, and being nursing oriented, evidence based, it's like, I've got to show that we can take these wilderness therapy treatment modalities that are mostly saved for kids that are in wilderness therapy, and bring them into mainstream private practice so that I'm like, we get to collect research, we get to do research, we get to have outcomes data. So I started down that road. And I'm, you know, again vision, can I do it? No, I have to have someone help me with that kind of stuff.
Ete :Sure.
Allison :But my idea was, oh, I'm gonna, I'm going to trademark this and then I found this attorney and business person out in New York and, and they wrote this book called The Bodyguard and it was telling me Oh, you got to start trademarking grab a whole IP. You got to develop this, you got to do this. And so I started listening to them and doing it.
Ete :Step by step?
Allison :And just kind of, and then I thought, I think a national franchise would be so cool, then I can share in the fun, you know, why not make this available? Because I think this is going to be a great opportunity. So as I started this, I wrote on the bottom of my website, "franchise opportunities," andâ
Ete :No clue what that looks like.
Allison :Nothing. Nothing. Well, I thought, I thought, I understand that you could, a franchise means you just make it grow. That's awesome. And then I started reading about franchiâ
Ete :It's complicated.
Allison :I've read every book, the Nail it To Scale It, the E Factor, you name every book, I've read it. It's the same work. It's the same. It's like a diet book. Yeah, it's the same information, different nomenclature, different way to package it. And some things would click, Fail Fast. It's like, I don't want to listen to you. I'm not gonna fail fast.
Ete :Yeah, I remember that book, yeah.
Allison :You know, so, so I put that down. And that's when Megan actually, so a franchise opportunity, opportunities and then when you clicked on it, it had call Allison at this number. That's when Megan called me.
Ete :Okay. So you have to tell the story because
Allison :She's, I have a different story.
Ete :You haven't heard so so I've interviewed Megan, but no one's heard it yet. Anyway.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :And so but but we talked about this.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :And Megan says, There is her version, and there's your version.
Allison :Yeah. Yeah.
Ete :And I want to hear your version.
Allison :Yeah, yeah, she's wrong. Although I usually I never say that because Megan, Megan is always right. I challenge her but I, that's, that's the struggle I've had as a, as a, as a, as a business owner. Sometimes I forget to take off my mother cap or my nice nurse cap and put on businesswoman, just the facts, just the facts. I can be a little too, I can be too nice. And I, I'll take I'll take the fall, I always take the fall and so I've had a business mentor say Allison, you can't you can't have everybody benefit from your risk taking. They have to take risks. So anyway, when Megan ,Megan called me, I was busy and I'm thinking Ooh, yeah, you know, people call and say stuff but she was like, my husband, I want to come out. I saw your website. I want to open a Trailhead. I we're going to move to out of New Jersey and Baltimore coming west and I'm like, okay, and then she calls me this next day or week says we got tickets and I'm like, Are you freaking kidding me? She's coming out, they're coming out for a ski vacation. And I wanted to make sure now this. You're actually coming on vacation? This isn't all about me. I just want to make sure that I wasn't like, like leading her on. So when she showed up, we talked and, and she probably told you that I made her go up to this play park and we climbed up on this
Ete :See, she just said we met at a park.
Allison :Oh, no. So, so again, I'm about playing. I'm like, What do you have to lose if, I'm going to pretend she's my client. And so we climb up on this jungle gym, and it's all rope. It's like Swiss Family Robinson. And I said, Are you any good at climbing up ropes? And she says, Yeah, and sI ay, well, let's let's go on the top of this playground because it's really cool. And then you get to see the mountains. And so I interviewed her up on this place, there's a park and it's got a really cool thing that you climb up. And, and I said, You know, I, you, I will hire you. And we're going to have to try to replicate the system. So you're coming in at a time where I'm just, I need to show that this is a repeatable, sustainable, low entry type of of a business and you're gonna have to help me build that and so we're gonna have to build systems and I knew about developing protocols and processes and it had to be driven by systems I said, so let's do it together. And so she came out and and then worked for me and she waited tables at the same time and she and her husband were trying to make it make it work and and we we did, we started replicating it, she started developing her own therapy style. And then in 2016, I went to Spain to walk the El Camino with my adult children. That's awesome. And but I had a DNF. DNF in the in the world of skiing is called do not, did not finish. Because three days into it, I ended up in cardiac ICU in Pamplona with a pericarditis. And I had two litres, and anybody listening to this, I'm not I'm not kidding. It was two liters of fluid. It's called a cardiac tamponade fluid built up around my heart, and my kids are Spanish speaking. And so yeah, we we were, so long story short, I was in Spain for a month sick as a dog. Megan was running the ship. And when I got back Megan's like, I want to launch my own Trailtalk. It's like, Okay, well, first I have to have surgery and I'm sinking I had to two quarters. I made no money. But I have great clients. Yeah. And they just it just turned out so well. And so Megan launched Provo, and said, okay, let's let's replicate this. And then the journey continues.
Ete :So you your knowledge base just comes from you read a lot, you study a lot. But you didn't. I mean, you had never built a company, let alone a pseudo franchiâ Are you officially a franchise?
Allison :No.
Ete :Okay.
Allison :We're, what I what I what I set out to do so when I came back from Spain, I was very sick. And I had an attorney that kept saying do a franchise do a franchise. It's like, one, I don't know. I got to show proof of concept.
Ete :Yeah, right.
Allison :That's what that's what we're doing now. Right now all of our business, this they're doing business as Trailtalk. And it's proof of concept. So I have a franchise attorney, small business attorney, both, she does both. And then I have an IP attorney. And so between the two of them, we're starting to look like a franchise and we're going to be moving in that direction, or we're going to change our structure somehow, because there's all kinds of ways you can do it.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :So as far as growth goes, I have peers saying you know, you're a little old to be able to benefit from a franchise as far as money down the road. And I'm like, well there's other options. So before COVID, my game plan was end of 2020 valuate the company consider selling shares of the parent company, which I own hundred percent of Trailtalk, and then the Trailheads. It's like a 90-10 partial ownership and they do business as. So these proof of concepts have proven that it is a repeatable, sustainable, low entry kind of do therapy, have a team of support and a trusted brand that's starting to grow in.
Ete :So as you move into that, as you kind of head that direction you just mentioned, you know, the support.
Allison :Mm hmm.
Ete :Which is very, it's a hard part. Because you've got, you know, not only are you finding the people I guess my question is how do you find the people and how, what is the support? What kind of support are you offering?
Allison :To Trailhead owners?
Ete :To Trailhead owners.
Allison :Oh, okay.
Ete :And this is more as, you know, just an in looking into the the model.
Allison :Yeah. So so when I first started out, I thought, okay, I've got two customers, one are people that are going to come see us for, as clients. So I have to market to clients. So my website and this is this was the journey that took me some time to say how do I market to two different clients? One client are going to fill the the seats and you're going to be a client of Trailtalk. So you're going to see Megan for therapy and Walk and Walk. So we got the signature Walk and Talk. So we gotta build that product with a client base. The other clients are potential owners of Trailheads. And that that's where it's like, that's where I was struggling is how do I market to both at the same time? And so marketing, then I started figuring it out. Sometimes the light bulb goes offâ
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :âgoes on at certain times. And that awareness like yes, that's what I'm going to try. And so the whole idea is if you want to own an affiliate and I call them affiliates, because I I've I've also studied all kinds of franchises and affiliates. So there's Pure Barre is a exercise company. And it's a it's it's a franchise, but it's a tight brand, and, but you have to have a lot of money to come to the table to open up your facility, but I really started studying what what's a really good franchise and what's an affiliate? so I started copying like, well, what I'm going to do is I'm going to have a training and you're going to come in, and it's everything you need to know to be a small business owner using nature as your therapeutic milieu. And so that's the training. And then I'm going to maintain a website and the website is going to be the fulcrum. And that's where I'm going to maintain brand integrity at. One website. And then all the trailheads are gonna have locations off that.
Ete :Sure.
Allison :So I own that that website. And that's part of what I get royalties or percentages, because I maintain the website, I do all the online social media marketing. I'm 24-7 available to help people with leadership, finance, marketing and client services.
Ete :Do you have a limit on that? So you say 24-7â
Allison :The sky.
Ete :âyou're available to help people. I mean, the
Allison :The sky, right, is the limit.
Ete :If you have 10 trailhead affiliates, you know, and they're all calling you 20 times a day. Is that taking up your time?
Allison :Well, I'm telling you, that's where that's youâ
Ete :You built a good enough system?
Allison :Didn't you want to ask me what isn't working?
Ete :I'm asking because I, we're like. So real quick. I'm in a lawn, Eco Lawn's my company.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :I own the whole brand.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :I have partners in different areas.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :They are equity partners. And they get royalties.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :I own and run the main website. I mean, this is the same story.
Allison :Oh!
Ete :But I have come to find that sometimes my unlimited support is exhausting me.
Allison :Oh, yeah.
Ete :So anyway, yeah.
Allison :So, so I, this is where COVID came in and threw me off. It just it hit the pause button. And it's like, okay, Allison. We got to regroup here because, again, as I've worked with some business mentors, read every single book that exists, it's about, you've got to work on your company, not in your company.
Ete :Sure.
Allison :And I was really working at decreasing the amount of work I was doing in my company, but I love what I do. So it's really hard. I love the program development. I could spend the whole day doing this kind of stuff. I love this. But then I have a whole day where I'm actually doing therapy. It's like, oh, gosh, this just floats my boat. I love it.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :You know, so I have several things that I really like to do. In order for me to continue on this trajectory, I got to figure out how to be working on my business. And I, like this morning is like, Okay, I got to get really good at talking to the attorney, talking to the marketing people and then got to go, got to go see clients, right?
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :And so I'm juggling. I'm juggling it. So no, it's not sustainable for long because I'm getting weary.
Ete :But what you're doing is every time you come across a new, you realize, hey, this is like, that's where I'm at like, okay, this year, we brought on some new branches, and they're doing well, but it's taken a lot more energy than I originally...
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :So now I'm like, okay, what can I do for the next few branches just trying to get smarter?
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :Trying to bring back the data and make better decisions.
Allison :And surrounding yourself with really wonderful people. I have this IP attorney, I've never actually met. I've never met her in person. She's living in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area, but she is so good. She's the best writer I've ever seen. She understands Trailtalk, and she's not cheap, but she really believes in my brand. And I know that I've got a cheerleader and then my franchise attorney. My accountant, she's like, I it's like, Amber, tell me the truth you took over from my last accountant and she just loved me, but she just retired and she's gonna be fine. But I want to retire too. Is this business model worth buying? And when I valuate at the end of the end of the year, looking at the numbers, as they are now, what's it saying? Because, you know, everybody says, oh, you're doing fine. So but I want to hear from a CPA.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :And she's like, Alison, it's, it's a brilliant business model. Because you're scaling it and you're getting passive income. The numbers say one thing, but with the understanding of what you've got behind it with your IP and how you're selling these partial ownership contracts, and getting passive income. She says, keep keep it going. You're doing great, but...
Ete :That had to be I mean, that has to be so validating for you, who's always had these ideas and some of them your going, ahh, people are like oh here she goes.
Allison :Yes.
Ete :You've got someone who's an expert saying, this is good.
Allison :Yeah, yeah. And this and it's like, you don't know me, and it's like, I'm gonna pay you anyway. So tell me the truth.
Ete :Right.
Allison :You know, like today, I get this call from someone in the banking industry, and I'm like, oh, great, it's, it's Dana. And I'm thinking, what is she going to tell me? It's probably going to be something to do with, I gotta pay someone something. And she called me up. And she just said, hey, I saw you go by in the van. And I just want to thank you, because right now, people are really needing mental help there. And so it's like, you know, Dana, that I needed that. So sometimes I just need a little encouragement to say, go for it.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :And I'll go for it, you know?
Ete :For the affiliates, you maintain a percentage of the equity, or do you own all the equity, you just get the royalties, or is it a little bit of both?
Allison :Well, the structure is I own Trailtalk LLC. So Trailtalk is mine, and so under is like the umbrella, the parent company. Underneath these are their partial ownership pass through LLCs. And, and they own 90%. I own 10%.
Ete :Gotcha.
Allison :And, and then the IP is kind of, I got an operating agreement, IP agreement, and it's an exhibit. And, you know, it's pretty complicated, but the accountants and bookkeepers, and the attorneys, all are speaking the same language and are understanding it. So that's my passive income. And so as I've as I'm aging, I knew that I had to scale this somehow. And so you scale a service industry, you can only make as much money as the number of people you can see. So if you're in private practice, if you can see five people a day, 10 people a day, that's it. So you're gonna have to increase the number of people or increase your prices. Or you can scale it by hiring other therapists or you can create other streams of passive income so a lot of therapists will become trainers and they'll be mentors and they'll be educators in some form or fashion within our industry. So there's all kinds of different ways you can wear a few different hats as a private business owner. So my idea with Trailtalk was, let's, let's use nature as our therapy office. Low cost.
Ete :Yeah. Awesome.
Allison :I'm totally into the van. And I've had a hard time getting everybody else to buy the van. I think that but the woman in Aspen just said, You know, I thought that van idea was kind of silly, she said, but right now, I think it's brilliant. It's like, well, it is brilliant. But nobody was, you know, again, it was an idea that people are like, I just don't want to pay the money. Again, risk analysis and I tend to be, I'll risk.
Ete :Are you okay like, do you have that certain standard, you have to have a van?
Allison :No. I I had a business mentor, tell me, you're barking up the wrong tree, get rid of the people that aren't going to buy into this. And it's like, you know, I've got, they are therapists and they're very well educated. They're not necessarily all trust funders. So I got to be really then I thought I got to be realistic about this. And I love the van. I think I want it part of my franchise model. It has to be an add on, based on how much if I say this is a repeatable sustainable low cost entry point, I think the van has to be something that is a choice. At first I was going to be like, nope, within two years, you have to own it. And if you're in a ski town, it better be Mercedes, if you're an Iowa, you could do a Dodge Ram.
Ete :Sure.
Allison :You know what I mean? Because you get to kind of work with the clientele. So I've kind of I've kind of softened up on that. And I got two camps of people. You're crazy. Make that the model. It's like, well, then I is sort of like, do I stay with self pay during the COVID? Or do I add insurance? Yeah, I had to decide my gut feelings like who, you know, who am I and I got to make that decision myself. So I think the van is I think I bought a used van. I got a smoking deal on it back when I bought it, and it's paid for itself. It's a roving billboard. Right now it's an office inside. It's great.
Ete :No, it's, yeah, I actually think it's very clever. I've used it rainy days. I use it in the winter a few times.
Allison :Oh yeah.
Ete :Got a little heater in it.
Allison :So the other thing about the, this roving billboard, is it's, it's really, it's destigmatizing emotional care for active functional folks. And so my whole gig was around, we've got to open the doors of the traditional therapy office and shed light on the shame and stigma of emotional care for active functional folks. And growing up in this. I grew up in a very different environment. But when I got here, I was like, wow, people are over the top exercisers.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :I can't believe it. There's dads and moms and they're doing a Lotoja and they're Olympic athletes. Unfortunately, in a very high performing community with really high performing people, they weren't lending parity to their emotional self and so as a parent raising my kids in this environment, I had say, how do I raise my kids in this environment and let them know this is the top 1% of the world population? This is not normal. This is, there isn't the diversity. There isn't any kind of ethnic diversity. And it's so rich. And even though there's, you know, some stress, you know, there's a bit of a there's several socio economic groups within Park City.
Ete :Sure.
Allison :But it's so not the real world. And so, as I lived here, it's like, wow, this is this is unbelievable. The amount of disconnect betweenâ
Ete :Oh, yeah, I've noticed it since I lived here.
Allison :Yeah. Yeah. And I, I didn't grow up as an athlete. And I'm like, wow, how do I how do I reconcile that as a parent, so over time, it was just like, this is brilliant. This is a niche demographic and what I call this, our demographic are the, the unidentified disenfranchised, and the unidentified disenfranchised are folks that are appear to be doing well. Financially they, look at this place, it's gorgeous. I call it the land of beautiful people. It's like everybody's beautiful here, you know? Look at their dental care. The orthodontists in this town are making bank. Anyway, I I really saw a need for a niche demographic andâBecause I've always worked for the weak and disenfranchised, you know, is this that was not, the the weak or the the heavy laden, the poor, you know, but but really everybody needs emotional support, and we need to lend parity to that in all it's so it's It has nothing to do with money. We're all humans. We all suffer from the human condition. And I saw a real loss of hope in a group of folks that, wow there's so much hope, but how do you define success? What does success mean to you? You can't bring money with you when you leave this world, but you can be rich in relationships and that's what I saw was really missing in this unidentified disenfranchised group.
Ete :And I, coming from where I came from, which is South Jersey right outside of Philly, I've noticed a lot of the same things too, quickly.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :It was not. Yeah, it was very eye opening.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :Different type of lifestyle. But there's a lot of need for the service.
Allison :Oh yeah.
Ete :I mean, deeply. Like sometimes people don't even ask themselves the questions.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :Am I happy? Am I fulfilled in my...? You know what I mean?
Allison :Yeah. Yeah.
Ete :So how does this message now, how do you take it to the country? Because there are no, correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no franchised therapy type businesses are there?
Allison :No, Iâ
Ete :There's a lot of schooling, a lot of different things. But I haven't seen anything like this.
Allison :No, this is this is definitely and this is so me. It's like, we're gonna, we're gonna do this.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :Except within the context of our division of professional licensing. So all of our therapists are professionally trained therapists. We all have a code of ethics. We have to we have to maintain our license that we have to be nationally certified. So walking and talking with a professionally trained therapist. Many of us are life coaches, we do the same thing as a life coaches. We're mindfulness trained, you know, it, but we're really professionally trained. So it's a it's a very, it's it's a unique model that way. And I did that and making it, ensuring that we're evidenced based, that we have research behind it, that we're maintaining standards with HIPAA.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :Very challenging. At the same time I, I had I've had people say, well, what are you going to do when, when... What happens if you go out on the trail, and someone has a personality disorder, and they fall down, and they pretend they broke their ankle? And I'm like, well, it hasn't happened yet. And until it does, I'll figure it out.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :But if but if I listen to the naysayers, I wouldn't be here. And the first time I walk and talk with my first dude, he's got his baby on his back because he was doing childcare at the time, his wife was working, and we're out walking, and I'm thinking in my head, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I, what do I, I don't, what am I doing? Okay, and it's like Allison, you know what you're doing, just kind of do the same thing outside. And so I just kept practicing and practicing. And really, I just, I just had to trust that this is gonna, you're gonna be, this is, this is okay. Nature, that bilateral moving outside the use of, of the outdoors, there's a release of endorphins, you know. It's not exercise, we don't, this is not exercise. There's no competition. It's side by side. But that bilateral movement, being outside, there's a decrease in your emotional valence. I like that word valence. I like words, but emotional intensity. So with that change in hormonal, like, little endorphin release, right, just enough. And you've seen it just being out in the woods with your family members, like God, you know what's up, I get some clarity, decrease the emotional valence of the situation. Then you can put on your thinking cap and you have clarity. Aha.
Ete :Absolutely.
Allison :Because we really need to think and feel at the same time. Right? Many of us are emoters and we're, but if you make your decisions based on your emotions, you're gonna make some bad decisions. You got to calm it down, put your thinking cap on, and then make decisions. So I've had to learn to do that myself. Before I left for Spain, I started this this workbook called Trailogy of the Emotional Sherpa. So a friend gave me the idea of the name Trailogy. And so I said to him, can I trademark that? And he said, sure. It's like, okay, you just released it, you know? And so I trademark Emotional Sherpa. So an Emotional Sherpa is someone that carries, that is heavy laden, and he carries everybody, tries to do everybody's journey for them and wants to take care of the world in and then they all of a sudden that turns around that looks like they're trying to control everything. So anyway, the Emotional Sherpa is something I use in my psycho education and being a nurse, psycho education is about helping people understand why they're doing what they're doing, you know, and so that's part of my nursing, my nursing gig but the Emotional Sherpa is just such a great metaphor for how we are so heavy ladened with trying to save everybody else but ourselves.
Ete :Yeah, it fits.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :Emotional Sherpa.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :So you just trademark everything, huh?
Allison :Well, yeah. Well, so I read I tell youâ
Ete :Yeah, yeah.
Allison :I listen to people. So I'm reading this book. And these two ladies out of New York are like, they're, they're hot stuff. And they're obviously know what they're doing. One was an attorney and she kept saying back in 2010, make sure, grab a hold of your IP, get some IP. And I'm like, okay, IP. Okay, that stands for intellectual property. You know, and then I didn't know what a profit-loss, I didn't know what profit-loss meant. I mean, I didn't know how to even evaluate what a bookkeeper did. And I couldn't read reports. And so over time, I've been talking about we've got to be proficient in certain languages, law speak, accounting speak, client services speak and and there's four different areas where we have to have some literacy or proficiency of some sort, you know, in order to be a business person.
Ete :Has it been hard to get your, your other affiliates or partners in the other areas to buy into your vision? Is it hard to find people to to get your vision? And do you think that's going to be a problem as you want to roll this out more and more?
Allison :No, I think i think i think that nobody has a problem with the vision as long as they can trust the leader that that I'm making good decisions. But I'm creating a leadership team and Megan's part of it and all the other proof of concept Trailheads there I'm forming this leadership team. And the challenge is, everybody's a whippersnapper. Everybody's got ideas. Megan's got a different wheelhouse than I do and we complement each other very well. And then we have other affiliates coming in, very different voices, very different styles. And so I'm definitely being challenged a lot and it's great. It's sort of like having teenagers and they will say, you say black, I say white. Explain to me why white's it's better than black you know, so, I'm having to I'm really growing and continuing to grow in my own ability to to manage. But man I do get weary sometimes.
Ete :But you're I mean, you seem to have the same amount of excitement and passion as you didâ
Allison :I know. What's that about?
Ete :Is it just growing it seems like cuz you yeah, you hit one milestone, got your first company, first branch going. Affiliates, affiliates, and it's, it doesn't seem to be boring to you. You seem to still be engaged.
Allison :I tell you, I if I if I'm passionate about something, I just can't I mean, I have friends that I'll be on the ski ski lift with. I'm telling you I marketed three times today because the three times people came up to me said tell me about Trailtalk. And there's like, Oh my gosh, let me tell you about Trailtalk. Like yeah, I just love Trailtalk. And I, I call myself the sales, the sales and I don't know what the microaggression or, you know, those my kids are saying you got to be careful with how you say things like, Oh my gosh, I'm learning so much. I'm trying.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :But I call myself a salesman, sales person for hope. I can sell hope, big time. So that's called placebo. Right? So when when you go see, see a therapist, what you want to know is, am I crazy? Am I going to be okay? Am I you know, and that's being a salesman for hope is like, yeah, you're going to be okay. You suffer from the human condition. I do too. I don't think you're crazy. I think you're going to have to you fall in and out of mental wellness. And so when I switch the paradigm from saying, oh my gosh, ever you know, you're mentally ill in your head to that crazy house. It's like that, that to me that that nomenclature that that verbiage is very scary. I I feel better whenâsay I say if you get a virus. You get a virus, you got to go to the doctor, you might have taken medicine, but you're not terminally ill.
Ete :Right.
Allison :But you still need care. And that's the same thing we fall in and out of mental wellness. Some weeks I'm on my game. I'm a human too. I suffer from the human condition. Some weeks I'm on my game and I'm feeling like I'm doing really well as a business owner as a therapist, and other weeks. I'm like, oh my i get triggered. I'm like, Oh my gosh, what am I doing? How did I ever think I was going to be able to do this? You know I'm incapable I'mâ
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :âfinancially insecure, you know, I start falling into myâ
Ete :It's a roller coaster.
Allison :Oh, it is. And then and then I, I, I pull myself back. I practice what I preach. All of all the Trailtalk therapists we have, creating these systems. We have values and culture. And one thing about our therapists is we've got to seek our own therapy. We've got to practice our own self care, and you've got to be really cognizant of taking care of yourself. Because you can't take care of other people if you don't take care of yourself.
Ete :And that's, Megan and I talked a lot about that because she, you know, she was saying it took her a minute to find that balance to where she was doing self care and...
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :It's funny the roller coaster is just that's just business something
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :And it's funny. I think for the last few years, most of our visits, she's helped me navigate through that roller coaster of business and you know? One week we're growing, everything's great.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :The next week I'm the worst, you know?
Allison :Yeah, yeah.
Ete :And just trying to level that out. What piece of advice would you give to a young entrepreneur?
Allison :Um, you gotta really believe in your product. Like I truly am passionate about sharing this. And and I think the piece that's easier for Trailtalk is, in our field, is that we're all social activists. We really are. Megan, every single trailhead owner, Morgan, Chris. Tanner, all of our therapists really believe in helping other people with their improving their quality of life. So there's a social cause. We're there's a there's a social cause it's like TOMS shoes or you look at some of theâ
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :âsome of the people that's like if you can find the pain, so again, these are all marketing things, is can you address the pain of its, can you find a problem and address the client's pain? And I think in health care, emotional care has always been second place to physical care. You know, we don't hesitate to seek out physical health care visits and taking care of our physical self. We aren't lending parity to our emotional self. So I found that there is a need and and we've created a product to meet that need. So I'd say find something that really just you're passionate about. And it really meets the social need. It's there's a, there's so much going on right now in the world that just like we can get involved with something that's just powerfully important, but you got to believe in it.
Ete :And when you can find that thing, it almost doesn't feel like work.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :Because you just you're so engulfedâ
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :excited about what's happening. That it's just, it's a pleasure to build.
Allison :Yeah. And I want to go back to being on a ski chair because I'm, a ski lift. So I love to powder ski, I love to mountain bike. I never it, Trailtalk doesn't turn off and I have a few friends that they're not they have no problem if I'm on a chairlift and you're talking to a guy and he's like, yeah, I'm a news reporter out of New York's like, oh, you are? Have you ever heard of Trailtalk? You know, it's like, no, what's Trailtalk? Oh, it's a company in Park City that takes therapy off the couch onto the trail. They use nature as their therapy office instead of the traditional. And so I'll start this conversation. And it's like, I'm like constantly networking. Some of my friends are fine with it. Others are like, turn it off. And it's like, well, I'll turn it off when it pays my bills and I can retire.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :But I'm close to retirement and this is my retirement plan, so can't turn it off.
Ete :I'm really excited about the future of Trailtalk, as I know you are. You can sense the excitement. It just seems awesome. It just I can just see it.
Allison :It just makes sense.
Ete :Yeah, you can see it everywhere. And but the most important thing I'm excited, as much as I love business is, and I shared this in my interview with Megan, what Trailtalk has done for me personally. I was very hesitant about finding, getting back into therapy when I moved here just because of some of the things I had heard coming from the east coast.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :And when I and I remember I saw, you know, walk and talk on the trails. I thought that actually could fit. Yeah, not only is it incredible business, but it's it works and your therapists are phenomenal. I also know Tanner.
Allison :Oh nice.
Ete :Tanner has done some work with my son. So I don't know all of them, but it seems like you got the right, the right brand, the right idea, the right time and the right people.
Allison :Yeah.
Ete :So that's a formula to win in business.
Allison :And that's what you tell the young young folks trying to start a business, make sure you have the right people the right timing. But then, again, it's a you gotta navigate through it. And sometimes the light bulb comes on at certain times, like oh, I get that. It took me forever to understand how to market a product that is in healthcare. Because I'd be talking to business people and they're, and they're selling premiums or they're selling something that's like, gosh, it just doesn't match. It doesn't feel like industry. So I gotta be really careful because this isn't hokey pokey stuff. This is true professional therapists, you know, so I have to really, and I've really straddled that where someone's like you're doing do this is like, doesn't feel right, as a nurse. I just I can't. I don't think so. So trusting yourself. But being open to listen to other other people.
Ete :Yeah.
Allison :But listen to your gut and, and be willing to fail and because just get back up, you know, and that's where I, I've done a lot of I told Megan, I said, I've made all the mistakes. She might have said that. Yeah, Alison made all the mistakes and I'm benefiting from it. Like now I want to share that. Yeah, you make some mistakes and we'll make now I have a team of people and we can forge forward together.
Ete :That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, I'm gonna put a, we'll have a link to the site below for those of you who are listening. And it sounds like if you are a therapist and interested in getting involved, this sounds like something you're like heyâ
Allison :You wanna buy into joining this family.
Ete :Yeah, you want to be part of this, you can reach out to Allison, we'll have, we'll have, you know, the website on the link, show notes. So, thank you. Thank you Allison for your time.
Allison :Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to me. And it's so much fun to talk with other small business owners because we are dreamers. And it's like, let's dream together.
Ete :I know. I'm listening to this story. I'm like oh man.
Allison :Let's head to the mountain top.
Ete :Thank you guys for tuning in. I hope you've enjoyed this interview with Allison from Trailtalk. Again, thanks for checking us out. We'll see you on the next episode.