Kestrel Country Podcast
The Art of Fly Fishing in Idaho with Ian Kern and Isaac Grauke
Imagine the gentle lull of the river, the artful dance of the fly rod, and the thrill of a catch in the stunning backdrop of North Idaho's waterways. Isaac unveils the secret behind the perfect 'river beer,' giving a spicy kickstart to our conversation.
We don't just talk fish—we dive into resources that make the sport accessible, like online fishing reports and free classes. Whether you're a seasoned fly fisher or have yet to wet a line, this episode is a treasure trove of inspiration and joy, capturing the essence of fly fishing in the heart of Idaho. Join us as we cast into the waters of knowledge and experience in this celebration of one of life's most meditative sports.
Find Ian and Isaac on Linkedin
Send questions to Mike Church or DM us on Instagram!
Imagine the gentle lull of the river, the artful dance of the fly rod, and the thrill of a catch in the stunning backdrop of North Idaho's waterways. Isaac unveils the secret behind the perfect 'river beer,' giving a spicy kickstart to our conversation.
We don't just talk fish—we dive into resources that make the sport accessible, like online fishing reports and free classes. Whether you're a seasoned fly fisher or have yet to wet a line, this episode is a treasure trove of inspiration and joy, capturing the essence of fly fishing in the heart of Idaho. Join us as we cast into the waters of knowledge and experience in this celebration of one of life's most meditative sports.
Find Ian and Isaac on Linkedin
Send questions to Mike Church or DM us on Instagram!
This is the Kestrel Country Podcast where we discuss the people, places and events all around Kestrel country podcast. I'm your host, mike church. Of the Kestrel Country Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Church, and today we got a fun episode talking about fly fishing. So this time of year I'm always eager to get out and enjoy those rivers, and a couple of my friends, Isaac Groucky and Ian Kern, joined me today to talk a little bit about fly fishing. We talk about everything from river beers and what that is all the way into how they got into it, some tips, some places. So hope you all enjoy talking or listening to a little conversation about North Idaho fly fishing. Are we going to drink those beers?
Speaker 2:a we got to do like a tutorial on the beers uh-huh, because I would do.
Speaker 3:We should start with that yeah, if lead in, if mike's a good producer, he's recording already. So all right I'll leave that up to your. This is where the imagination is where the magic happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so river beers.
Speaker 2:Ian introduced me to this. Actually, I think you have to know how to do this to be a guide right, a river guide.
Speaker 3:Actually, I probably found it on Instagram. There's an outfit out of California Taco Fly Company Pretty fun guys, they're into tacos, good Mexican food and fly company Pretty fun guys, they're into tacos, good Mexican food and fly fishing. And I saw this video originally when they first posted it about the river beer and I thought that looks awesome.
Speaker 3:And I think I introduced you, yeah, a couple of years ago on the river, and it just becomes a thing. You bring all these ingredients and you make them in the boat and then you serve up these like fake beer cocktails that are spicy and delicious.
Speaker 2:It's a good way to take a plain lager and make it drinkable.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, isaac, you should walk us through this as you go, because we do have the phone rolling, but the majority of our audience is certainly audio.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this is we only. Normally you're not allowed to drink these unless you're on the river, but we're going to make an exception. Um, but yeah, no, we just got like a basic. This is a 10 barrel brewing company pub beer lager. Any cheap lager works. And, uh, the way Ian taught me, you got to crack the top this is the hardest part Very carefully, cause you don't want to pop it all the way. Ian taught me you got to crack the top this is the hardest part Very carefully, because you don't want to pop it all the way. Oh, just a little bit, I don't know if I can do this on.
Speaker 3:You need a teeny, tiny crack.
Speaker 1:You have to be floating.
Speaker 2:It might not work. I'm not going to go too far with it, just a tiny, just let a little air out. Okay, then we go lime and you want to fill the top of the can with lime juice. We've got a fresh, cut lime here.
Speaker 1:So do you want enough of a hole to where that lime juice leaks in, or no, I mean?
Speaker 2:it's going to get in eventually.
Speaker 1:He says you do.
Speaker 2:You do, but the problem is that I only have three beers, and so if you ruin one, I don't have any more.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's definitely variations on things you put on the top, but there has to be lime and tahini. I like to add hot sauce. Isaac's got a great setup there.
Speaker 2:Some people use salsa.
Speaker 3:Salsa works A legitimate like salsa, liquid salsa.
Speaker 2:All right. So we got lime juice fresh squeezed lime juice on the tops of the can. Then we add a little salt right on.
Speaker 1:Mmm, I can see how sunshine the river. It would certainly enhance what's going on here.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent. Okay, Tahini, you guys know this from your, you know your margaritas. This is like spicy, it's like I don't know how would you describe it. A little bit of that on top. More salt yeah, spicy salt Tapatio. You can use any hot sauce, but I like this stuff just a.
Speaker 3:I like a good, just a splash sauce tapatio is kind of my go-to, like on eggs, and yeah, all right, it's good so you got to take the first drink because it's the action, is opening it all the way, and then all that stuff dumps in and it's going to foam and pour out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so your first your first drink is is it?
Speaker 1:has to be. Yeah, so probably not, not directly over the soundboard, correct, it's probably.
Speaker 3:I'll give you this video. You can cut it into your master video. There you go.
Speaker 2:Well, cheers, Cheers hey cheers To talking about fly fishing. To talking about it and then you got to kind of monitor it because it's going to want to come fizzing back up again. But I think I did a good, a pretty good job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. That's good. Definitely enhances the old plain Jane lager.
Speaker 3:Here's for the microphone.
Speaker 1:There you are.
Speaker 2:Now that should be a Kestrel country.
Speaker 1:Crack, that's right that should be our new opening. Well, I definitely need to find more guests who bring drinks, although we do record a lot of these at 9 in the morning. Yeah, well, for the record, it's 5 o'clock somewhere.
Speaker 3:Yeah, river Beer, taco Fly Company. Don't quote without it.
Speaker 1:That's the way to start a podcast, right there, man. So Isaac Grauke, with the intro there, and Ian Kern, hello. Thanks for coming on, guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1:There's going to be plenty of breaks when I'm drinking beer.
Speaker 3:I suggest we record a third podcast at some point on a boat yeah, on the river.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that needs to happen for sure. I often wonder why I don't do that on location. Well, different equipment On a boat's a little different, but I mean like at a camp. I often wonder why I don't do that on location. Wow, A lot of boat, Different equipment, A lot of boats a little different, but I mean like at a camp. That'd be easy to do. Absolutely, Riverside. You have the river in the background, so we are supposed to talk about fishing. But what I usually like to do start off with a little background, little intro. So maybe, Isaac, we'll start with you. Just tell us a quick bit about yourself and maybe how you got into fishing fly fishing in particular.
Speaker 3:We're going to talk about fly fishing.
Speaker 1:I mean it's the best kind of fishing.
Speaker 2:Sounds good. Yeah, isaac Grauke lived in Moscow since mid nineties. Um, I was 12 when we moved here and so grew up here a lot, and my parents, um, got into fly fishing and uh, took us out quite a bit early on. I wasn't really into it, but I am great, very grateful that they sort of drug me out there and, um, we found the St Joe river uh pretty early on and had a raft. So I spent a lot of time rafting and time on the water and trying to figure out how to catch fish and we were pretty terrible. But we, uh we got started, which is sometimes the hardest start or hardest part.
Speaker 1:Wasn't there some story about you getting either waders or or something for a birthday and being really upset about it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't remember if I told that story last time. But um yeah, when I was 12 or 13, I said to my parents you know, I just I don't want to tell you specifically what I want, just think about me.
Speaker 2:You know I wanted to be, I wanted to be understood, think about me and and get me what you think that I would, I would want, and uh, so I thought it was going to be basketball shoes, cause I was really into sports. And and, uh, yeah, so I opened up a, um, a box that was the right size for basketball shoes, but it ended up being a pair of neoprene Hodgman waders and I cried, I burst into tears as a, as a 12 year old, which is completely unacceptable, uh, but yeah, so we laugh about that. Uh, uh, tell that story a lot. But now I got waiters again, um, I don't know 10 years or so ago, and I didn't. I didn't cry that time, but, yeah, no, for me, I just I was into it a little bit, not much as a kid and then, after having my own kids, um, um, started getting into a lot more and we started um camping.
Speaker 2:We've got um like a seasonal campsite. Uh, we park trailers up on the St Joe and we've got drift boats and go up and and hang out, ride dirt bikes and and fish the river, and so it's just kind of become part of our seasonal rhythm. Um, so we do every year.
Speaker 3:Was there a defining time when you remember okay, I'm into fly fishing. Yeah Well yeah, does it kind of just progress?
Speaker 2:No for sure. Um, I think there was a. It was a combination of getting to a point in my career where I'm like, all right, I'm settled, I know what I'm doing, um. And then, um, just coming to the realization that I live in Idaho and there's all these amazing things that we have around us, and Mike and I actually took a trip to rock Creek just past Missoula and Montana, took my dad's camper this was in 2009. And just, we were like, you know we should let's go fly fishing, and I think at that time we'd both done it a little bit. It felt new, um, and kind of didn't look back from there, just started doing more and more of that yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker 1:I had a similar question, but curious what that? Obviously there was that timing, but what would you say? It is about fly fishing. That kind of got you either changed your mind about it or that keeps you hooked to it to this day. Hooked me with the puns today yeah, I mean I what do you love about fly fishing?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, initially I'll. This is maybe just a very small part of it, but I think looking out from the outside at people who do fly fishing, it was this mysterious thing that was like I'd like those people, I think what they're doing is neat and and I'm completely intimidated. So, and this was the same thing with, you know, hunting, um, even like farming and like starting to raise, um, raise animals. It was this thing, looking at from the outside that was intriguing, but kind of like man, I have no idea how to do that. And so then, crossing that barrier and just deciding to say, you know what, let's just grab some used gear, borrow some stuff and go and be willing to completely make fools of ourselves. I think we caught like five fish, like between the four guys that were on that trip, all accidentally, totally. Yeah, tiny little fish, and we took pictures with every single one, you know it was like we did it.
Speaker 2:I tricked a fish, Um and, and then there, and then there's a whole like stages to it too, because then you get obsessed and then you can't think of anything else and then it's all about numbers and I'm like we would be camping on the river and I'd see a rise and it's like I just had breakfast or whether. But I'm like I got to go catch that fish and you're annoying to be around. You know your family's like, oh, he's out there again. And and then you kind of settle into this comfortable space where you like to fish. You catch fish, but like I'll have times when I'll go drive the river and look at the river and I I don't even bring a rod, I just want to look at the river or a snorkeling, river snorkeling, I was going to say have you ever swam?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Watch fish, yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely One of my like most, uh, the coolest moments in nature. Yeah, I guess that's the way I put it. The coolest moment in nature would be this time. I swam up behind a rising cutthroat and just watched it from like 10 feet away. You know, you just kind of go up and take a breath, come back down, and it was just like it would come up off the bottom and grab something and go back down. And then I just snuck away you know it was cool.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, awesome, that was good. Ian, yeah, what's your? What was your journey like?
Speaker 3:where are you from? I grew up in eugene, oregon track town, usa, amen. It's a beautiful location. It sits like 45 minutes from the pacific coast, 45 minutes from the cascade mountains, and then it's in between two rivers, or two rivers kind of come through the McKenzie river and the Willamette. So it's just a rich outdoors sports enjoyment environment.
Speaker 3:And I grew up in a family that loved getting out and family camping, car camping, but really didn't do a you know much more than that. And I think in high school I got into the boy scouts because I loved being outside. So I got involved in boy scouts and mountain rescue and boating and just anything I could do outside. So I didn't necessarily get into fly fishing until probably my senior year. Sadly because it, because it's like, oh, I had all these great opportunities and I never utilized it. But for me I think I graduated high school early, traveled in Europe a bit, came back home Kids today call it a gap year.
Speaker 3:I just was not in school or had plans for doing that and became a river guide. So I took river rafting clients down mostly the McKenzie and other rivers in Oregon the Wahee, the Klamath, the Rogue, the Deschutes, um and I probably just saw guys fly fishing and thought I want to do that. I never really fished before that. I wasn't a spinner guy and had the opportunity to just buy a rod and fish like a lot. So I can remember one summer I was guiding on the McKenzie primarily, but I go up in the morning and fish for 20, 30 minutes before clients showed up do a raft trip and then you know three o'clock when the day's done, fish for an hour or two before I went home, all on the McKenzie. The McKenzie River is kind of historical because that's where the McKenzie River drift boat was sort of first. Yeah, invented, developed or used, which is a. You know, we all know them as drift boats.
Speaker 3:But maybe some of our listeners don't. It's based off of an ocean that were big water, dory, so it's got a bow and stern that look identical, and then the original boats, which were all made out of wood, had a really high rocker, so big round bottom so you could maneuver the rapids, and it just became a way of fishing. So the mackenzie drift boat was sort of a small version of the dory and then I think they developed even a couple others. I don't remember what other river. There's another one that's named after, but basically out of oregon. How do you get down these rivers and fish them all along the way? Yeah, so there were a lot of drift boats. I mean it was. You'd see them everywhere. There were boat builders in town, people on the river and boats, and so I was just kind of around it.
Speaker 1:Is it a pretty major destination for fly fishing?
Speaker 3:It is. I would not have known that growing up, but when you get outside of where you're from and talk to people like, oh, one of my bucket list rivers is to go fish the McKenzie, even in a drift boat, and I've read articles in different publications over the years people coming from other parts of the world to come fish Oregon and fish fish the McKenzie river, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did you when you were first getting into it? Um was, you were river guiding, so you're in rafts, right, yep? Um, did you fish out of a drift boat early on, or were you, like I think a lot of people and I know that was my experience was entering it just, you know, waiting and from shore, I don't know, it was probably only. I don't think I'd been in a drift boat fishing until I went in your boat a few years back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't even remember the first time I was in a drift boat. We didn't, I mean, we were in the raft early on, but actually like a hard bottom drift boat. I don't know, I can't even remember early on, but actually like a hard bottom drift boat.
Speaker 3:I don't know, I can't even remember. Yeah, I think you know I kind of got into river culture so I was hanging out with a bunch of people who loved the adrenaline rush of rafting and doing stuff in rapids or kayaking. But then there was also sort of people who just love the water and love fishing and love boats. So I had a guide friend who had a drift boat and he'd let me just borrow it and take it out. So I definitely fished a few times early on in a drift boat, cause I had access to people who had boats. Um, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a different experience.
Speaker 3:I still fish with that rod I bought in high school.
Speaker 2:It's an.
Speaker 3:Orvis Clearwater.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome Classic, it's a great rod. I have one of those, too, that I think I was probably in high school when I got it.
Speaker 3:And it's funny, you talk about the progression of learning about fish, about fishing, about fly fishing. There is ground to cover, you need to learn a lot. Yeah, there is ground to cover you need to learn a lot. Yeah, because I remember just probably a good year of just going out to like, oh there's water, it's water, there must be fish in there. I'll throw something out there and I'll probably catch something, but I had no idea what I was doing and it only enriches your experience, as you learn more and experience more and do more, that I think fly fishing becomes more fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now we talk about targeting species, going to certain places to fish for certain fish and yeah, it's just, yeah, and I still watch like videos that I'm like man, I'm casting wrong, Like, or I'm just I need to get my elbow in or whatever. You're still learning. Um, it's kind of one of those things you're always getting better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that that's definitely one of the attractions to the sport of fly fishing is there. There's a lot of a lot of things like that, but I would honestly probably I think golf is has some similarities in terms of it is you know, you can, it's gross, it's terrible. No, it's something you can get into and then you can always be learning. You can always be getting better. That's probably true of anything.
Speaker 3:That's what it should be with everything.
Speaker 1:What it should be with everything, but I think maybe not to the same degree, but it's something you can do for a long, long time. Right, it can be very physical you can hike way back into a crazy place and wait right, but it can be relatively. You know, something you can do when you're older and you can learn your whole life about it and continuing to find new things, new techniques, gear, I mean, I know I'm I'm a gear hound I think most fly fishermen are. It's like there's always some new piece of gear, there's always something to to get into and learn. I kind of felt that way. Shooting clays this past weekend was like it's another one of those things, like I could do this the rest of my life and never and definitely never master it Right. Like, but on a dozen shotguns, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:It's also interesting. You know culturally what draws people to certain sports or activities. I remember, probably back when I bought my rod in high school, the local fly shop in Eugene. You know they just talked about all the people who had watched a river runs through it.
Speaker 3:For the first time and thought I need to do this. And they're usually, you know, middle-aged, they've got some income, so they just come in and buy everything and I'm going to go do fly fishing now because it looks awesome. You made a comment about sort of looking into the sportsmen who practice fly fishing and wanting to do that. I probably had the opposite, like I. I didn't. I wasn't really. I was drawn in by river people who loved water, nature, being outside, doing stuff, and that's probably my first. That was my love. Then I did not think fly fishing or fly fishing people were people I wanted to associate with. Yeah, cause there was definitely a stigma of this is the pure way of catching fish, this is the only way of catching fish, and I, as I've done it more. I also think they make it more harder to approach, unapproachable, like they make barriers that are too difficult. Really doesn't need to be that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I completely agree. And actually I don't, you know, I don't think I was exposed to those people who, you know, were snobbish, wearing the fancy gear, and yeah, that was, um, I didn't know too many of those people. It was more like, especially where we fish, there's not a lot of money there, there's not a lot of like rich fly fishermen or anything like that. Um but um, but that's totally a thing. So that's actually good, I mean, I, I think you know, grab a pair of Chacos or sandals and just go get in a river. You don't have to go buy the waders, you don't have to buy the fancy rods. One of my favorite rods is made in Oregon, um, and it's like a couple hundred bucks, you know. I mean, you can spend tons of money on that kind of gear and, and sure, it's fun to do that too, um, but I do think it's. I think there probably are people who think of fly fishing as that sort of thing, this kind of hoity toityity.
Speaker 1:Elitist.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we'll drive upriver and I'll see those guys standing in the river and I'll kind of laugh.
Speaker 3:Maybe that was my experience growing up on the McKenzie, because of the mystique of the river, that's who you'd see out there fishing. You would look down on someone in an aluminum boat. Yeah, like, oh interesting I forget about that.
Speaker 2:So I'm glad you mentioned it because you kind of have to like there are people who that's what they think of fly fishing.
Speaker 1:Right. What do you mean by? Do you have some examples of? You said you think a lot of people put up barriers or make it more unattainable than it should be. Do you have any examples of that?
Speaker 3:Just their attitude towards it, or I think it's the level of knowledge and things you need to know going into be successful at fly fishing that keeps people from it. Yeah, so like you're not throwing out. They make it intimidating yeah, and you need to understand fish psychology and patterns and the complete bug cycle and like you don't have a degree in entomology, then you're probably not going to catch fish, and that's not true because we all make those purple. Chernobyls very productive.
Speaker 2:Our pink pony was one of our favorite early flies and it's literally just a huge piece of like pink foam Right and, amazingly enough, catherine loves the San.
Speaker 3:Juan worm, absolutely Just kills it, and you shouldn't look down on that or be ashamed of like, yeah, throwing that out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm fine with people who are like dries, only they don't want to. You know, nymph, or whatever, or they don't you know. But I'm like, well what? I want to catch fish. So it's more about what's, what are the conditions and you know what, am I most likely to be successful?
Speaker 3:with, and I think the piece that I love the most about fly fishing is that relationship between imitating fish food and catching fish. Right, but I don't get extremely deep into the weeds on that, so I don't like buying store-bought bait and lures and things to go out and catch fish, because my goal is not to catch as many fish as possible. I love the what's happening on the river observation what are the fish doing, what's hatching right now, what's not, what are my options and just trying different things out. That that, to me, is a lot of fun, absolutely so so explain that a little bit.
Speaker 1:Um hatch dries versus nymphs yeah.
Speaker 3:Life cycle yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that you make a great point that one of the really fun things about fly fishing is you get to interact and actually see a fish come up and take a fly off the surface, whereas when you're just throwing a lure or something, you know they eventually hit it but you don't get to see it. So there's a little like a level of engagement where you kind of get to front row seat to what's happening. Um, but yeah, I think there's. You know there's lots of ways to catch fish on a fly rod.
Speaker 2:But uh, ian was talking about you got dry flies which imitate bugs that come and like sit on the surface of the water or lay their eggs on the surface of the water, and they've, you know, made out of materials that allow them to kind of float and they're really lightweight and you've got these fine. The end of your line is called the tippet and you've got these really fine tippets. So when you throw it out there it kind of floats down and just sits on the water and then the fish thinks it's a bug and goes up and eats it.
Speaker 1:And that's what most people think of when they think of fly fishing. It's kind of that image like the royal wolf, it's like the fly you see embroidered on stuff.
Speaker 3:Healthcare caddis yeah.
Speaker 1:But then so what's nymphing?
Speaker 2:What's the difference? So fish do a lot of feeding subsurface, underneath the water. When they're hanging out down there, they're looking for bugs that are in different stages of life. So bugs, a lot of bugs anyway, are in the river, in the water. They float up and or swim up and they hatch on the surface and the bug takes off and flies away. Well, fish will use that as an opportunity to eat those bugs while they're hatching, coming up out of the water. Um, and so a nymph is essentially a fly that imitates those subsurface uh, bugs that are in some stage of hatching, and so they they look all kinds of. You know, you can make them look all kinds of different ways. Um, some are big, some are small, shiny, whatever, and with trout, like, anytime you put something shiny on it, it attracts them. Um, it's flashy, and and they they seem to.
Speaker 2:Sometimes that'll make them, uh, bite a little bit more aggressively, Uh, but yeah, you can have, um, essentially what they call in fly fishing a strike indicator or a bobber, if you, if, you, if you will Um, and so the bobber floats on the surface and then you've got your line down to your nymph, or you can actually have a really big kind of a dry fly that floats really well, and then you can have a line off of that dry fly, so you can actually be dry fly fishing and nymphing at the same time, which is something we do a lot of in the spring.
Speaker 3:Yeah, For new people listening the big difference between fly fishing and conventional fly fishing or spinner fishing is that you're using bait to catch a fish. In fly fishing, the line your fly line is what takes your bait out. That's why you have all the fancy casts and the way that you have to send your line out to take your bait to the fish. In conventional fishing or spinner fishing, you're waiting. Your line, your line's pretty thin, it's just strong enough. Yeah, you're waiting the, the lure. Yes, the weight.
Speaker 1:your bait has weight on it at that end slinging that sucker out there, right, yep, and you're generally probably an overgeneralization, but you're generally imitating other bait fish. Correct, like that's. I know my background, but I got into fishing trolling in a boat, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Mike, you got to tell your story.
Speaker 1:Lakes back in Michigan. Well, in Canada, a lot of it. And at that point you know we're we are imitating, right, we're imitating minnows or other fish, no-transcript. I mean, the fish finder is pretty, pretty exceptional innovation, but yeah, just trolling along and hoping that some big trout sees that and jumps on it. You know we do some casting for, for bass or for pike and that kind of thing, but generally all spinner fishing and fly fishing wasn't even something I don't even think, I really even you know. You maybe like see it and think, oh, it's kind of a cool old school British thing or whatever you know. But it was very much. It was all about, you know, bass fishing and deep big lake fishing and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:And then my first exposure to it was out here in Idaho. We came out, you know, before I ever moved here, uh, years ago, and my, my mom and sister were doing teacher training stuff here in Moscow and so we went down to McCall and just walked into an Orvis shop and we were probably kind of those people that some people hate right Of. But it was like, hey, I think my dad's buddy had been like, oh, you're going to Idaho, like you need to fly fish, yeah, something like that. So we walk into an Orvis shop in McCall and like, hey, what do we need to do? And outfitted us with some stuff and hooked us up with a guide to take us out and went out and my dad I remember getting snagged a lot, my dad, I remember getting snagged a lot I finally figured out. But kind of that peek into how this is so different than what I had grown up doing was we went to some I don't even know what river it would have been.
Speaker 1:We went somewhere in McCall after the guide had been done, probably the pay up, and just started casting and messing around. I'm like nothing, just nothing. And then some guy walks up with a fly rod and he casts in a similar area where we are. Boom catches a fish. Yeah, you know, boom catches another fish. I was just like, hey, you know what are you, what are you fishing with, what are you doing?
Speaker 1:And he's like, oh, this, whatever right, I don't know what it was at the time and, uh, it's like, oh, I think I have one of those from the fly shop, you know, tied it on first, cast boom, you know, get held like, oh, this is different, right, this is a very different thing than like, hey, you put something that flashes out there and the fish is going to go for it. Um, that was, that was the first exposure to it, but after that I was pretty hooked. Um, but, uh, went back to Michigan and and did some fishing and you know creeks and stuff near my house and up you know Northern Michigan and stuff and and started getting excited about it. And then, coming to school in Idaho was like this is, this is what I got to do.
Speaker 1:Um, probably never put the time in to actually get good at it, but I'm just felt like man, be kind of like you, you know, like I want to be in these places, like I want to be in the mountains, on these rivers and on the creeks, like this is what I want to be doing. And, as much as I still love trolling for fish and stuff, just that active nature of it, like I get to be out here in the mountains waiting around. I get to be hiking, I get to be casting, I get to be active the whole time, rather than just like sit there with a pole and a boat trolling reading a book.
Speaker 3:You know not passive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very active. So even if you're not catching anything, it's like man.
Speaker 3:I had an incredible day walking differences between fly fishing and spinner fishing, the line and then the bait and lures you're using. Really, it seems like in the last 10, 15 years there's been a lot of crossover. So now people are fly fishing with mice minnows. They're doing a lot of stuff that normally wasn't done on fly rods. That now fly fishing seems to be an approach and a way to fish and it looks totally different than it did 20 years ago.
Speaker 2:That's true, yeah, streamers. Yeah, I know a guy that ties a treble hook on a streamer. Yeah Right.
Speaker 3:I'm like oh, and there's I mean there are no, there should be no rules, there are no rules, and so it's kind of it's interesting.
Speaker 2:Well, to be clear to the audience, there are rules. I'm pretty sure you have to pinch the barbs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that is another thing in Idaho. That was kind of a new thing and maybe I will find out that I was breaking the law all the time in Michigan. But it was like I never like we just went out and fished and there were like limits and some size stuff, but we just fished and I get out here and I'm like dude, you got to like there's a lot of specific streams, specific rivers, specific bodies of water and when can you use what and what can you use and can you catch and release or can you keep them? I mean, it was like I always thought you catch fish and you fry them up, I guess what you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there'll be points in rivers when it's like, all of a sudden there's a sign and it's like but beyond this it's single barbless only, whereas 10 feet down the river you could have used bait or whatever.
Speaker 1:Right, so definitely consult your Idaho fishing game.
Speaker 3:I think my wife loves the fact that I fly fish and loves fishing and that lifestyle, but she still doesn't understand why you'd catch a fish and throw it back. She agrees Fish should be caught and fried.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's the name of that guy that YouTube video have?
Speaker 3:you seen that when the guy he's a fake guide, he makes so much fun of the catcher Trying to explain it.
Speaker 1:Trying to explain fly fishing catch and release to these rednecks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's funny yeah.
Speaker 1:You do what now? Oh, so you can catch them and eat them later. It's like no, no, no. Yeah, that's true, that's a good. That's a good point, Cause a lot of people think that a lot of people fish for eating fish, but a lot of fly fishing is not that way.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, Um, all I can say is if we I mean you have in order to for there to be, like these, native cutthroat, you can't allow people to take them all to eat them.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's just you're either not going to have the have the resource or you choose to put limits on it and people can continue to enjoy those fish, catch and release. But you know, if we, if we allowed um you to eat even one, you know, whatever one per person, it just wouldn't, it would be, it'd be gone. So, yeah, cause they've tried, I mean they've even tried allowing catch and keep, and then immediately they're going to have to start stocking fish and the stocked fish out compete the native fish and it's just it doesn't work. They've tried different stuff. Um, you can even still catch, um, you know, cutthroat when they interbreed with rainbows, the stocked rainbows they turn into cut bows and you'll still occasionally catch those, because they used to stock the rainbows Um, I don't know how many years ago, eighties or nineties, um, but they stopped doing it because the cutthroat were not able to compete, survive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and that's. I remember catching my first cutthroat trout and I was like this is so beautiful, yeah, so cool, and just like the like, that allure. I think that's part of those different species and you know what can you catch where and get them. And it's like, yeah, just catching them, getting the picture, whatever it is, that's enough. Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 2:Did you see the guy that just caught the new state record cutthroat?
Speaker 2:catch and release. It was in the Clark Fork, so there's a very small part of the Clark fork that is in Idaho, um, so you can go. Guys will go to Missoula and float, float the Clark floor fork, um. But once it comes into Idaho, you've got the small stretch before it dumps into a pond array, and so he must've been out in a boat. I don't even know what he was fishing with or whatever, but it was like a 26, 24 or 26 inch cutthroat giant. Wow, pictures online Just recently, yeah, recently. Well, they only I mean, they've only come up with ways of allowing people to do this sort of like take a picture and send it in. You got to show, demonstrate that you're measuring it, and so they can actually see how big it is, and then you, you release it. That hasn't been around that long.
Speaker 1:It's got little controversial too, though, because I mean you don't want that fish out of the water too much. Yeah, you got to be careful. You don't want to stress them.
Speaker 2:You got to be careful. But because it's new, people just are breaking the record all over the place.
Speaker 1:Huh, yeah, so locally then I mean, isaac, you talked a little bit about the Joe, yeah, the St Joe River. It's certainly one of what we get is like, hey, I'm moving to the area, like I feel like I want to fly fish. You know, I'm here in Idaho now what are some ways, easier ways for people? I'm going to keep the puns, going to wade into fly fishing. That's good. How'd you get, did you? When did you start fishing around here, ian? Was that when you were here for school?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I I mean I'd say I'm new to Idaho. I moved back here three years ago and really started fishing. I was here in late nineties, early two thousands for college and fished occasionally. Then you know you're busy as a college student. And then I ended up in Nashville, tennessee, having a family raising young kids and went through a phase where I knew I wanted to get back to fly fishing but it wasn't going to be anytime soon. So I literally just had that kind of in my mind.
Speaker 3:I'm putting all this stuff up on the shelf and I know it's going to come back out in the future. I don't know when, and I'd probably say about five, six years ago. I started getting back into fly fishing in Tennessee, which is totally different. We don't have cold water rivers there, so you're fishing tailwater stuff that's released from dams. Where the water's cold enough you can catch trout and some of the cold water species which I was more interested in than bass and other things. But now, moving to back to Northern Idaho and fishing here, it's um, I'm learning all these new rivers and rivers I've heard of for a long time but haven't fished and it's been super fun. So every year I hope to just at least get to one or two new rivers and fish.
Speaker 2:Exactly. I mean, just go like almost any river we have around here, we'll have fish in it. It won't necessarily be the highest quality, but I think the only one that, like you're probably not going to catch fish. I don't know, At least I haven't I. Well, that's not true.
Speaker 2:I did catch one in the Palouse river, but I mean, Palouse is probably one of our closest small, I was up around Laird park and I've I've heard that if you go way up the Palouse above Laird park and you go find pools, like you can catch there I think they're a Brook trout up there Um, and I did catch one there at Laird park. Um, but like most sections of the Palouse, uh, because of all the grazing that we do and, um, the lumber timber company all straightened all those rivers out, so when runoff comes through, it just like blows it all out and there's not enough um food for the, the bugs, to eat, so the fish don't have anything to eat. But yeah, the Palouse, um, but yeah, there's the St Joe. You go down to the Locksaw, the Selway, the Clearwater, kuski, yeah, north North Fork of the.
Speaker 3:Coeur d'Alene Clearwater.
Speaker 2:I mean, all of these rivers have have great fishing. Um, it's just a matter of like picking the right time of year and go find a, go find a fly shop that'll post, you know, uh, fishing reports online and people will put that information out there and when to fish them and what to fish with and that kind of thing yeah, we have the internet, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when I started fishing, there was no internet. Now I was fishing on a river. I know people catch fishing because I could see it with my eyes. But if you wanted to go to a new location, I mean now you just google, you know, fly fishing, fishing certain rivers, what to expect? You potentially can find places to go. There's just a lot more information now that you can get on your phone when you're in a place. I got 45 minutes between my next. You know whatever I'm doing and I'm by a river. Can I fish this? What's here? It's pretty awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, something on my to-do list this year. I've never tried to catch cutthroat on the clear water. Um, like up around cherry Lane area, and I've read it's like obscure blog posts from 10 years ago of people who were like, oh, I was up here and I caught this 18-inch cutthroat and I'm like you know people always think of that as a steelhead river or like you can catch bass in certain parts of the Clearwater. But I know there are cutthroat in there and my goal is to see if I can figure it out, because that's like probably the. That would be the closest place to catch a cutthroat, if I can figure it out. Yeah, I mean, it's big water, so you're not just going to like wade into most sections of that, or especially not this time of year, but yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:So, speaking of that, right, like you said, you can throw on a pair of chacos, and certainly later in the season, um especially. But um, what about, like big water lake fishing? Have you guys done much mountain lake fishing for like fly fishing, that kind of thing?
Speaker 3:I've hiked into a couple of different mountain lakes and fished and have had success. Usually it's very clear water and you can actually see if there's fish in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So in Idaho stocks a lot of their mountain lakes and so you've got these populations of cutthroat and sometimes rainbows rainbows that are pretty big. I mean you can get my friends. I haven't done a ton of what myself, but my, my wife's done a bit, even like down in the Wallowas or seven devils yeah, there's others I'm blanking but I mean any of those mountain lakes typically will have fish in them. So if you're going to go on a hike, if you can manage to throw a fly rod in, I totally would, cause sometimes those are the easiest fish to catch and you can keep them. So when you're usually and check their eggs, of course, but usually when you're fishing out of these mountain lakes because they're stocked, um, you can grill them up a lakeside, yeah yeah, that's a sweet little backpacking perk, yeah, for sure yeah, similar to golf.
Speaker 3:It becomes a lifestyle in the sense of I'm going here for business or for pleasure, what's around there that I can fish right? That's how golfers think. I'm going to this place for a business meeting or a vacation or whatever. Can I golf when I'm down there? What's available? So you kind of start looking at everything through that lens as you're planning your family trips and vacations and things to do. You're like Hmm what water's around there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's totally like I was thinking. Uh, you said you um floated on the Deschutes. We took a trip over spring break um like a rafting trip.
Speaker 2:We just went over and hung out because we like the Sun River area, yeah, and I brought my fly rod and I was like, let's go out and explore. And like the Deschutes is mostly, I think, closed, or at least the section that we were on, but there was this little tributary called like Falls Creek or something. It had a hatchery up there. I ended up catching one of the biggest rainbows that I've ever caught. It was like the only fish we caught was this one fish, but it ended up being this like memory that I'll keep for forever.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, it's fun to do that and back in high school I think it's up river from well, it's up river from Sun River. On the Deschutes it kind of meanders through this big meadow and I was up there with a friend and I wasn't into fly fishing yet but it was probably the beginning of that phase or stage and we had float tubes and so we just jumped in at the top. We told his mom to pick us up in a couple hours, you know, at the other road down lower river and I think we had a fly rod and several spinner rods and just random stuff we grabbed. We had a blast just in a float tube, going very slow down the chutes on a sunny day, throwing anything we could in the water to see if we could get fish. It's a beautiful area.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I do think that's like the floating aspect of it is a totally. It can be a game changer, right? Like some of the, I remember probably still a lot of the frustrations. Fly fishing is like getting caught and stuff in your back cast. It's like I'm up against these bushes how do I get out? And then the ability to just float down a stretch of river and hit different spots and things whether that's inner tubes, you can get those pontoon, inflatable pontoons you can. You can do it, like you said, relatively inexpensively, um, but being able to float that, uh, really allows you to cover a lot of river and get to places that you might not be able to otherwise get down to Absolutely. Um, is that kind of Isaac? I know you've got a boat. You are into that, um. Is that what you spend most of your time now doing?
Speaker 2:It is in the spring, like pre-runoff. So this is we're middle of the May, your time now doing it is in the spring, like pre-runoff, so this is, we're middle of the May, middle of May here, and so we're kind of peak runoff right now. Um, although this year is going to be a super low water year. So, um, I don't, I think the snow pack was. Last time I looked it was like 80% of of average or median, so it's, it's a low snow year, um, and so far it looks like the river may have already peaked, unless we get a ton of rain, um, because we don't have any rain in the forecast currently.
Speaker 2:So, um, yeah, like right now, we are basically fishing all the way through runoff, which is pretty unusual. So normally, because you've got all this snow and then the rain, spring rains hit, it'll warm up, and if it warms up and it rains, at the same time the snow, snow starts mellowing, the snow starts melting, the river will blow out and we basically can't even fish it during those times. So we'll, we'll do a ton of floating and fishing in, like March, april, early May, and then usually you have to take a break, um, because the most of the water comes out or is coming down in mid-May and early June and then we'll get back to it sometime in June or 4th of July. It'll come back down far enough to where you can we're almost doing late June, early July fishing.
Speaker 2:Now Seriously, and if someone is interested in fishing this year, be aware that by probably early August, it's going to feel like late August, and so get out in July. Um, that's probably going to be some of the best walkway fishing that you're going to see this year. Um, because you know what's once the water levels go down to their their lowest, which normally doesn't happen until like September or that timeframe. But if it, if it goes to its lowest point and it's also like a hundred degrees out, which it could be in August, the water warms up and fish get stressed and they don't, um, they don't feed as as often or as normal uh, normally as they do, and, um, and also it, it, it's actually hard on the fish to catch them and yank them out of the river and so and sometimes you'll have more that die because they're just not doing as well, um, so and so typically it's like that's the time of year you just say like, hey, I'm not going to go out and fish, cause the fish are stressed out as it is. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah, fish earlier this year and that's even even going higher elevations and that kind of thing. No, I mean, is there, is there when it gets like that? Are there other places to go, other types of fishing to do?
Speaker 2:That's a great great point. So if you go further towards the source, um, it's typically colder water and and closer to whatever you know, whether it's a spring fed or whether there are springs coming into it or whether it's just a lake fed river. Anytime it gets warm, going higher up is going to be colder water usually. It just has like less time to sit there in pools and and get warmer yeah, but smaller, smaller water um is better, yeah, walkway and smaller fish generally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes probably more smaller fish in general, but then you'll also have some really big fish that are going up to spawn, and so you can like I've caught some of my biggest fish, like way up in the headwaters of these rivers, um, that are going up there to spawn.
Speaker 3:You also get the aspect that when your water drops in a Creek or river, you then oftentimes will lose continual flow in the river. And then you get these sections of pools. Well, fish get trapped in there, and sometimes they're big fish, and so even they're hungry and they're hungry and so late season you can go target certain things and just fish a pool a bunch of different ways top, middle, bottom, streamers, nymphs just to try and get whatever fish are stuck there, which is pretty fun, yeah yeah, that's awesome I was just watching this fishing game posted a video of one of their um.
Speaker 2:It was a fish ladder with a fish Um. It was, I guess, a trap, I don't know what they call it, but this was way up on the snake Um. So this would be Southern Idaho, um, and they have a population of cutthroat up there and they kind of just showed their whole design of the. You know, basically, fish go up through this thing, they get stuck, they grab them, they measure them, weigh them, get all this data, sometimes they tag them and then they send them on their way. So they're able to do that with these spawning, like these giant spawning cutthroat trout. That kind of stuff would be so cool. I should have been a fisheries biologist, since we're recording this conversation.
Speaker 3:Isaac, as an Idaho guy, what resources do you go to? What do you use for weather stream flows, stream information and then just news and fishing in the area? I mean, where are you watching fish and game catching fish?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll follow fish and game on there, like they post on Instagram, they post on Facebook, they're on social media and so stuff that they're doing, they're putting out there and there's a lot of interesting stuff that you can stay up to date with. There's a bunch of sites that post, like streamflow data. I was just looking at the one I use, a waterweathergov, which is the national weather service. That's the one I and I always check for. Like the St Joe, I'll look at Calder there, which is the national weather service. That's the one I and I always check for. Like the St Joe, I'll look at Calder. There's different ones that that do. But then you can also go to silver bow. I think it's silver bowcom or just Google it, but it's a fly shop in Spokane, silver bow fly shopcom. Sean is the owner, he's a great guy and they post regular almost weekly, I think it's weekly fishing reports for five rivers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, spokane, north fork, quarter lane, they do like the grand ron. They were just saying that this is. There's a small window right now where you could go um catch um, it's kind of like runoff, but not super bad runoff, and so there's a window here where you could go catch bass on the uh, the grand ron, because all the salmon and steelhead smolts are coming out and so if you go throw like a streamer.
Speaker 2:the bass just are looking to hammer those things. So go throw streamers on the grand Ron right now. So they, yeah, they, they, they should tell you these things and they'll tell you what flies to use.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they give a little list of what what flies are working and Tyler at white pine.
Speaker 2:Um, if you're not following white pine fly shop here in Moscow, you should be following he does. Guy lives on the river. We see each other pretty regularly. Um, they've got a camp, uh further up river from us and they're on the water a ton Um, so they'll they'll post their kind of stream side fishing reports from the Joe and other. They go down to the grand Ron and float down there and lots of um good information from from Tyler and um Snowtel. If you're ever interested in looking at average snowpack, I look at Snowtel. Um, I can't remember the actual website, but if you Google it you can probably pull that up.
Speaker 3:Um, and then obviously, once you have all these tools, you need to know a little bit about how to use them and what flows mean and what snowpack means. These tools, you need to know a little bit about how to use them and what flows mean and what snowpack means. But yeah, you can learn that pretty quickly in a season just by reading and studying and talking to people and figuring things out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm like I'm Googling the names of flies all the time, right, you know, someone will say, oh, they're, they're, you know fishing this, or fish are keying in on a certain fly and I have no idea what it is, and just Google it and lots of people out there posting videos of different patterns that they're doing and so you can get a feel for what it looks like or what it's imitating.
Speaker 1:Um, and then go to your fly shop and, yeah, stopping in those fly shops. There's always, always happy to give information and and tell you what flies. Yeah, and sell you some flies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Be aware of the. You know the prices are going to be top dollar for those those flies at the fly show. You get a little info. You get the info.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly sure yeah, well, and then and tutorials. Like you said, the internet wasn't, wasn't around, but it's like. Now you can learn how to cast and everything on youtube, right? Yeah, there's so much good information yeah there's step-by-step, you know, orvis videos and all kinds of good stuff out there to just go and try and put an indicator on, and you can do it in your backyard and like they have an investment in bringing up a generation of people, either a future generation or current fly fishermen.
Speaker 3:Their resources are incredible. Yeah, when we were in nashville, I started fishing for maybe a year or two and then started getting my kids into it. Well, orvis does free fly tying classes, fly fishing classes, fly casting classes like obviously they want to have customers, but they're giving away all this great information. That is huge resource, like. If you have something like that in your area, it's a, it's a great opportunity just to get in and learn a ton with no overhead.
Speaker 2:Yep yeah, north 40 in lewiston, north 40 in cordelaine, north 40 in Coeur d'Alene. There's an Orvis shop in Coeur d'Alene, yep, um, there's people don't know about Red Shed Fly Shop on the Clearwater, but Red Shed, go see a guy named Poppy.
Speaker 1:Dude talk about a great video. Oh man, look up like the. There's a YouTube video on Red. It's awesome. It'll make you want to get into spay fishing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he's really good Spokane Yep Silver bow.
Speaker 3:I forgot what I was going to say.
Speaker 2:But yeah, the fly shops are great, a great resource.
Speaker 1:Awesome, good, good, yeah, just get out there. I mean, apart from drowning, like nothing really bad can happen. You're going to spend a beautiful day out on the river and, yeah, enjoy just being up in the mountains. I don't, I don't remember if I said this on the last one or not, but, um, like Catherine, first time I got her out fly fishing, we were going up to the North Fork of the Clearwater and we were getting ready to leave and she was just like I don't, I don't want to go on this trip.
Speaker 2:I can't do it. I just I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1:I, catherine, just just wait, like you're gonna get out there be standing in the river in the mountains and just like you're gonna love it, you don't even have to fish she goes. I don't want to stand in the river. I'm like, but no, she, we got her out there and she loved it.
Speaker 1:You don't even have to fish now she loves it. Yeah, and yeah it is. There's something about these North Idaho mountain streams in particular is just incredible, Like it's just amazing that we get to be in that place and just experience a day in those absolutely beautiful areas and quiet out of cell range. I'm sure I've said it before.
Speaker 2:But go find the small tributary streams and put on a tiny fly, or maybe not even a tiny fly, but just go catch small fish. They're out there and they're eager and they, you know, like if you've got kids and you're trying to get kids into fly fishing, go find these small streams that come into the. You know, like, all the big rivers, all the rivers we have around here are fairly good sized, um, the kind of river that could sweep you away if you get in a little too far, but but they all have tributaries and most of them have fish in them and so those fish will tend to be smaller but they tend to be more eager. They will attack your fly and if you miss them they'll attack it again. And you sit there and you just practice your timing and you practice, you know, setting the hook.
Speaker 2:Um, it's great for kids. It's uh, I mean, honestly, I've that's what. What I did the first time. We went um back to the Joe, um, we got on one of those little creeks and I think I sat there and I caught like five or so little six inches in a row and just was like all right, pick up a little confidence, have some fun and then go find something bigger.
Speaker 1:It's awesome Any parting thoughts.
Speaker 2:Welcome spring.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when you live in north Idaho, people look forward to the spring for many reasons. Fishing is just one of them. Yeah, glad it's here. When you live in North Idaho, people look forward to the spring for many reasons. Fishing is just one of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's here. Awesome Thanks guys. Thanks for the river beers, Thanks.
Speaker 3:Mike, this is fun. We should do this weekly.
Speaker 2:I'd love to get together and just talk about fishing if we can't actually be here, let's go do it on the river next time. Thanks for joining us Like share, subscribe.
Speaker 1:We'll see you next week.