B Tourism: Sustainable Travel with Exodus

Can your travel adventures actually contribute to a better world? Discover in this eye-opening episode as we sit down with Rochelle Turner, head of sustainability at Exodus Travel Adventures, to uncover the delicate balance between exploration and environmental stewardship. Rochelle shares her personal and professional journey in advocating for sustainable tourism, offering actionable insights on how travelers can significantly minimize their carbon footprints while still savoring global wonders. We delve into the impact of aviation, the allure of distant destinations, and practical steps to ensure your travels are as green as they are unforgettable.

Travel isn't just about ticking off bucket list destinations—it's about making a meaningful difference. We explore how responsible tourism can uplift local communities through fair wages, local produce, and clean environments. Rochelle discusses the interconnected nature of sustainability and the holistic approaches needed to achieve the UN's Sustainable Development Goals. With actionable tips for planning nature-positive tours, reducing plastic waste, and supporting protected areas, this conversation is a must for anyone looking to enrich their travel experiences while respecting the planet.

Our mission doesn't stop at eliminating plastic waste by 2023. Despite setbacks from the COVID-19 pandemic, Rochelle shares inspiring efforts to provide clean drinking water without plastic and the importance of community collaboration. From innovative projects like creating eco-bricks in Indonesia to combating over-tourism by choosing responsible travel companies, this episode is packed with insights on how to travel mindfully. Join us and be a part of the movement to enjoy the privilege of travel while upholding our collective responsibility to the world. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and spread the word about responsible living!

B Tourism website

B Tourism podcast series info 

• Exodus Adventure Travels; Rochelle Turner, Head of Sustainability
• Brooke Hansen: University of South Florida & Dr. Alan Fyall University of Central Florida
• Legacy Vacation Resorts: Madison Daum
• Explora; Juan Marambio, Sustainability Manager and Romina Da Pieve, Deputy Manager of Conservation Research 

WWF carbon footprint calculator

Learn more about the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals 

Responsibly Different™’s SDG podcast

Citizen science reports

Exodus travel foundation

What’s a carbon handprint vs footprint

Dirigo Collective Website

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

I think we have to recognize that, because it's a privilege, it also comes with a responsibility, and it comes with a responsibility on us to say is this the right thing to do?

Speaker 2: 0:30

Welcome to Responsibly Different, brought to you by Campfire Consulting. In this space, we kindle the stories, insights and dialogues at the heart of conscious consumerism and impactful business practices. Each episode is a journey into the essence of making decisions and investments that nurture positive change. Join our impact strategist, brittany Angelo, as she dives into the narratives of leaders and visionaries who are reshaping what it means to live and work with intention and purpose.

Speaker 3: 1:00

As part of this podcast series, Campfire collaborated with the Bee Tourism Network to bring to you all our listeners, some exciting conversations exploring the forefront of responsible travel and sustainability, in collaboration with industry leaders and innovators in the travel sector. Curious about bee tourism? Well, here's Madison Dom of Legacy Vacation Resorts talking a bit more about what the group does and how they connect through the Bee Tourism Network. If you're curious to learn more about bee tourism or this series, head to the show notes to find some links.

Speaker 4: 1:35

The goal of bee tourism is to connect individuals and communities, so we really would like to partner with more bee locals so we can highlight and bring up those in the community, whether they're V-Corps or not. They can be 1% of the planet members or just people who are caring about their impact. But really being able to connect communities globally now, that will help extend our reach.

Speaker 3: 2:10

In this episode I had the opportunity to speak with Rochelle Turner. Rochelle, at the time of this recording, was the head of sustainability at Exodus Adventure Travels. As you will hear, she is very passionate about responsible tourism. This conversation with Rochelle has stuck with me for a few reasons. I learned a lot from her perspective and I hope that you do too. Enjoy the episode. Thanks, rochelle, for being on the podcast this evening. I'm so excited to kind of talk to you about all things travel and sustainability and for our listeners to see your perspective, because I've gotten to know you a little bit here and I just think that it's a really unique perspective. So thanks for coming on the show.

Speaker 1: 2:54

Well, thank you for having me. It's a huge honor to be part of this and really looking forward to our conversation.

Speaker 3: 3:01

Awesome, awesome, I love it. Okay, well, I think, just a fun way for our audience to learn a little bit about you right off the beginning. I'm wondering can you share your opinion as the head of sustainability at a tourism company? What challenges do you personally face in balancing the desire for adventure with the need for responsible tourism practices?

Speaker 1: 3:26

So you hit me in the heart with a hard one right off the bat there. Thank you, brittany. That's a really, really good and really valid and really tough question. So you can hear from my accent I'm Canadian but I live in the UK, my family is in both countries and my parents are getting old and they live in Canada. So, from a personal perspective, traveling is really, really important because I need to be able to get across the world. I need to be able to see my parents. From a more personal perspective, you know our world is amazing and there are vistas and cultures that one can only ever dream of experiencing, and so those things are really really challenging.

Speaker 1: 4:14

When you think about carbon, and particularly aviation carbon, and the fact that you know we have an impact and travel does have an impact and I know my impact. I've been on the WWF carbon footprint calculator, which everyone can do, and you can type in all the things that you do in your daily life and you can see how it comes out, and I know that mine comes out far, far higher than the global average. But what do I do? It's really difficult. You know I don't eat meat, I don't buy brand new clothing.

Speaker 1: 4:51

I try and take public transport wherever I possibly can. But the travel industry is trying to sell holidays to people and I think where we have a responsibility, it's making sure that those holidays are as meaningful as possible so that we are creating value in the destinations and having the maximum positive impact. Where I also try to make my job ensure that we reduce carbon emissions as much as possible through the trips, but also encouraging people to take trips that are closer to home so that perhaps those flights are not as far, because it is those long distance flights that really really do add up in terms of carbon. But personally it's difficult. I know it's difficult, but I think if everybody knows where their impacts are, that's at least a start on the journey to trying to make meaningful reductions in the areas where it's possible to do so.

Speaker 3: 5:59

I feel like everything that you just shared are things that, like, I struggle with and I contemplate every time I go on a trip, but there there's so much to unpack about everything that you just said too, so I'm excited to to hear more and learn more from you throughout this conversation.

Speaker 1: 6:15

Can I just add to that? So there's this really weird phenomenon in travel um called the value of distance factor. So for some reason, places that are far away are far more interesting in our minds, far sexier, than places that are closer to home. So as an example for UK travelers, for example, scotland is a beautiful, incredible landscape. But the similar, beautiful, incredible landscape, but the similar obviously not the same, but a very similar landscape can be found in New Zealand. But the idea for a lot of people of traveling to New Zealand has far more sort of excitement and joy than the idea of traveling to Scotland. And it is this value of distance factor and how we come over that I don don't have the answers to. But how do we make places that are local to us in this world of needing to cut carbon a little bit more interesting and places that we can have fun in and enjoy and travel slowly to and still have an incredible adventure or time with our family when we need to switch off?

Speaker 3: 7:27

Wow, you just like targeted me, so exact. So I'm about to get married and we're planning our honeymoon and we're talking about all the places we want to go and it's like, yeah, the places that are farther away and that the plane flights longer and we don't know when we're going to have three weeks to go on vacation again seems sexier to us and it's like we're leaning towards those. But sometimes it's like, well, you can like, what do you really want to do there and can you find that closer? So I love that.

Speaker 1: 7:59

Yeah, but at the same time, you can't find a lot of the culture and adventure and you know the language and history and smells and sights and sounds anywhere near where you currently live.

Speaker 1: 8:13

But I love the fact that you're considering going for three weeks because I think where we fall down in society as a whole is we think, oh, you know what, I'm going to go to Europe and I'm going to do it in a week as a whole. Is we think, oh, you know what, I'm going to go to Europe and I'm going to do it in a week. Or I'm going to go to Vietnam and spend four days and then I'm going to go off to Cambodia and spend another three days and I've seen Asia. No, actually take your time. Like you said, go for three weeks if you possibly can and I know that not everybody can. But it is a real challenge to be able to say, right, if you're going to invest your time in traveling the world, try and do as much as you can while you're there and give as much value back to those places while you're there.

Speaker 3: 8:55

Yeah, yeah, All right, let's dive into what Exodus does, Because I think, from what I know about you and I know about your company, it seems like maybe your missions kind of overlap a little bit. So can you tell me about the mission and the values of Exodus Adventure Travels? And particularly I'm interested in the relationship of what sustainability and responsible tourism mean to you and to your company.

Speaker 1: 9:26

Sure. So I guess, first of all, exodus Adventure Travels. This year we're celebrating our 50th anniversary, so we've been around for a very, very long time and we offer small group adventures, and so when I say small group, it's a maximum of 16 people, but a lot of those trips are far, far smaller, depending when we go and offer holidays in about 100 countries. So that's walking and cycling and cultural discovery and you know, just things where you can get a bit off the beaten track. We don't tend to go to those sort of what I hate the word but bucket list destinations, but where you can really immerse yourself in the magic of a destination and the magic of people. So our mission and what we try to do is to improve life through travel, so improve life for the people that we meet, the places that we visit and the planet that we explore, the places that we visit and the planet that we explore. And so what we mean by that is we make sure that all our trips are being the best that they can.

Speaker 1: 10:32

And I don't we've spoken about this before but I don't like the word sustainability. It's in my job title but I really don't like it because I think people associate it with worthiness. I think they associate it with green stuff. I think it's boring. Actually, it's eat your greens and make sure you have great jobs that they love, that there's dignity to them, that they're paid fairly, that they get a say in what they do. They have intrinsic rather than extrinsic motivation to come to work.

Speaker 1: 11:19

These people are the best guides, the best ambassadors for where they live and what they do. That you get with good travel. You get the best flavors because they come from the freshest and most locally grown ingredients. So you get these meals that are just incredible tastes that you probably haven't or wouldn't get otherwise to try, that you probably haven't or wouldn't get otherwise to try.

Speaker 1: 11:50

And you know, the cleanest communities are those where people look after it, because they're really proud of where they live and they care for one another, and so that's the kind of thing that we believe and we try and support. Through the kinds of trips that we do that we're making people really love the places and by giving back to the places that we are invested in, then they will take care of our guests in a way that you know. We hope that everyone should be taken care of when they go to a place that they have excellent service. And excellent service means that the community really benefits and nature and wildlife and all of the things that people want to see when they go on holiday. That benefits as well.

Speaker 3: 12:32

What an important way to kind of break down this word that I mean at this point. I feel like everybody overuses the word sustainability, but you took the time to really explain what sustainability means to you, and in this way that a lot of people often forget when they just say, oh, sustainability, oh, that's sustainable, and it's like, well, that's one word that could mean so many different things and it it's really cool to hear you you list these things that are important, that classify under this broad term that I will say I think sometimes I get lazy and I just say, oh, yeah, I'm a sustainability consultant and it's like, well, what does that mean? What do you do? And it's cool to hear your definition.

Speaker 1: 13:23

It's not just my definition. I mean, what I think is really interesting is that a number of years ago, in 2015, the UN came up with the Sustainable Development Goals, the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals, the SDGs, and there are 17 of these, 17 of these things that essentially define sustainability. So to just say it comes down to, you know what I like to call green stuff, and I always put quotations around. That is really missing the point that everything is so interlinked that you know, if you have good food, then people are healthy. If people are healthy, then they tend to have better mental health and they're well. When you have better mental health, you do so because you live in a clean environment that needs clean air, and to get clean air, you need good clean energy. To get clean energy, you need good policies in government, and all of this, you know, all of this stuff is interlinked.

Speaker 3: 14:16

Yeah, yeah, a few years back I did a series where I talked to business leaders who were incorporating the SDGs into their business practices and it was so hard to break out what each business was doing based off of one SDG because, like you said, each goal is so intertwined with the next and others. And yeah, the list goes on and on how they all cross connect. And yeah, the list goes on and on how they all cross connect. So I'm curious, I want to know a little bit more about, like, the how and the what. So you list out all of like these different things about your adventure trips that, quite frankly, like have sold me, but I guess, like I want to know a little bit more. So, when Exodus is incorporating these responsible practices and these sustainability goals into your tours, what is the planning and the execution of your tours really look like?

Speaker 1: 15:16

So, initially, it's about setting that strategy from the beginning. Right, what kind of company are we? What do we want to be? And so we want to be a nature positive company. And so what does that mean? If you're a nature positive company Like if you are drawing out the guidelines on what this means how do you go about it? And you know there's some amazing minds and amazing people that have done that already. They've created the global biodiversity framework that was agreed on by the world's governments in 2022.

Speaker 1: 15:54

And so we've sort of looked at that and said, okay, well, you know, that's about no pollution. Okay, so what can we do in our business to set standards and say we don't want any plastic bottles on our trips? Right, we don't want to create plastic pollution, we don't want to be part of plastic pollution. So we want to say how can we work with our suppliers to get rid of plastic pollution? We want to say, okay, well, part of being nature positive, part of the global biodiversity framework, is about protecting nature. Okay, well, we want to be a company, then, where our trips are supporting nature by taking people to benefit from all of what nature has to offer. And so we have 90% of our trips visit at least one national park or naturally protected area. So that is like a main criteria. Does this trip visit an area where we know that by going, nature will be protected?

Speaker 1: 16:52

And then there are other things that we do. We know that, um, you know, invasive species are really really big in. Um, we need to get rid of them. So, um, we do some work with, with science and we do some citizen science activities to get rid of or at least to understand. Does this place that we're going have invasive species, which then feeds into the IUCN, the International Union of Conservation of Nature, and so scientists can have data and information to help build their own strategies and policies around removing it.

Speaker 1: 17:27

So, pollution, again, sort of helping our customers understand. And so we're trying, through the companies that we choose to be our suppliers, to set some minimum standards of the things that we will not go below, the things that we want to work with them on and, you know, helping to make sure that we can take them on a journey with us where we need to. Many times, you know, they're the ones that are leading it. We've got some amazing suppliers. We've been doing this for 50 years, so you do get to know people and they get to see how we work and we get to see how they work and actually, collaboratively, you're able to solve some issues and problems in certain parts of the world where you know we know that there are some significant climate issues, temperature issues, you know community issues as well and we can't solve all those things, but we try and work together by having this main strategy that comes from the guidance within global strategy.

Speaker 3: 18:35

That all makes a ton of sense and I think oftentimes companies aren't using the global framework and strategies enough. So I really love that you're highlighting that your company is kind of tapping into that and using that to help lead, because every company shouldn't be reinventing the wheel, so that's fascinating.

Speaker 1: 18:57

Absolutely. I mean, there's, you know, I guess we always, when we were going to school, we learned about the three R's, didn't we? And one of them was about recycling, and so I'm a huge recycler when it comes to great ideas that are out there. If I can use something, then absolutely will, because it makes it so much easier and it also helps us all align around things that have been agreed at a far higher order and far beyond my pay grade as well.

Speaker 3: 19:24

Right, right, well, and so you mentioned recycling and for me, I didn't know what direction you were going to go in with recycling. But recycling ideas, yes. I feel like one of the major issues in the US is recycling and I feel like people are always talking about plastic pollution and I know that you've mentioned plastic reduction as part of your trips through conversations with me. So I want to uplift kind of the the effort that you all have made to reduce your plastic, and I feel like you mentioned that it was you reduced 96% of your plastic and if that's true, can you share, just like maybe, what you all have done to reduce that much? And then what's that remaining 4% that you're still working towards?

Speaker 1: 20:12

So it's not a reduction of 96%, so actually it's 94% of all of our trips. We ourselves do not, as a tour operator, give out any plastics, so there's a missing 6% where we still need or are giving out plastic bottles, plastic water bottles for people to drink, and there's a couple of other examples where some small plastics are creeping into our trips. We did have a goal. We do have a goal of 100%, and our goal was by 2023, we would give out directly no plastics on our trips. Covid hit and obviously people. Then, you know, there was this concern about hygiene and safety, and so we've sort of fell back a bit, and so there's a few areas and certain parts of the world actually where it is a little bit more difficult. I'll go into a bit of that in a minute. But I think one of the things that was important was setting this goal. Like quite often, we don't know whether we're going to be able to achieve a goal that we set, but it might be possible, and by setting out that goal and coming out and putting it out publicly, it really focuses minds and focuses attention and focuses action as well, and so we're not there and we're very open about the fact that we're not there yet and we're trying and trying and trying and hopefully we will get there soon. But how we go about it is okay. We said no plastic, so what does that mean? How do you come on an adventure tour knowing that you need to? If you're doing walking or cycling or some sort of activity, you need to drink and you need to drink lots of water. How do you make sure that that water is going to be safe and clean and you're not going to get sick and that you will be able to stay hydrated and you're not going to get sick and that you will be able to stay hydrated? Well, we worked with the suppliers and we invested in huge coolers and huge sort of water purification systems so that now, if you go on a cycling trip, the huge cooler of pure water is in the back of the bus that follows cyclists along and whenever you want to stop, you bring your water bottle. And if you haven't brought your own water bottle, we will have clean sprayer water bottles for people to use and you just fill up your water bottle, and so we're encouraging that. So, obviously, that involved. We had to tell customers on this trip there will not be plastic water bottles so you need to bring your own. We had to reassure them of the clarity and the purity of the water and we had to have a system where that water could be carried from place to place and still remain cold and fresh and viable for people to use. So that's just an example.

Speaker 1: 22:57

Where we are less successful is we obviously don't own a lot of the things that we do on our trips, and so we'll go to a restaurant that maybe still might have plastic sachets of ketchup or mayonnaise or something like that, and then those conversations are ongoing and they're slowly.

Speaker 1: 23:17

Slowly because we are a relatively small operator and don't have 100% occupancy of these hotels, so don't have the clout and the buying power sometimes to be able to say we don't want you to have plastic sachets of ketchup and mayonnaise or whatever that might be. Again, I think in most of the world COVID probably threw people back, so the solutions that were starting to come through prior to the pandemic are probably just about ready to start coming through now, but we're starting to have those. Well, we are regularly having those conversations and getting better every year, and that's helped in a large extent through regulation as well. So in Europe, for example, there are really strict regulations that have just come in this year around single use plastics. So there's no single use plastic cutlery and no single use plastic items that are allowed to be sold. So eventually there will be a lot of help that we are given just through the legislation that's come through in certain parts of the world.

Speaker 3: 24:23

You touched on a few things there that I just want to like lift up. And again through the work that I did for the series about SDGs, it is shocking to learn how scarce water is around the world and I feel like sometimes I myself, but others also, just take it for granted and I mean it's a luxury to be able to just go to your faucet and instantly get water. So I see how, yeah, if I'm going to go on a trip, I want to make sure that I have access to clean water. So it's fascinating the procedures that your company has gone through to make sure that I have access to clean water. So it's it's fascinating the procedures that your company has gone through to make sure that there is clean water available. And again, it is a luxury that that we're able to get clean water around the world.

Speaker 1: 25:14

Yeah, you're absolutely right. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 3: 25:17

And then the other thing that I heard you say, that I just again it's better for the planet to eliminate plastic in all of those different packages. Again, like some people, just they don't know any better, so it's also really cool to see the education that you're giving to all of these communities around.

Speaker 1: 26:16

So thank you that our trips gave to communities. How do our trips value nature? And then, did we on our trips take steps that were noticeable to them to cut carbon emissions? So we ask those three questions and then ask a wider question about you know, would they like to see us do something different around sustainability? And the amount of times that, um, plastics, pollution, litter, uh, waste, rubbish those kinds of words come up is is incredible.

Speaker 1: 26:51

And there are certain parts of the world where our cyclists will be cycling along and the whole side of the road is almost like a rubbish tip, a litter bin, a waste heap. And you know, they know that we have not contributed to that. They know that on this trip we are not adding to this, but at the same time, their experience has been lessened because the environment is not as clean as they would like it to be and so we are not responsible. But at the same time, we are all responsible, and it's that collective responsibility of showing our suppliers and showing our communities where we're working that this stuff really matters, because that leaves a really bad impression on your destination as a whole and that might mean in the future that it becomes less interesting for people to travel there, and the bad reputation that you get because you've not been able to work around your sanitation issues is something that could be very, very long lasting. So it's the feedback from our customers as well as just me pushing because it's the right thing to do.

Speaker 3: 28:07

Right, right. Well, my question, my next question, was going to be around like asking how you ensure that the communities that you go to are clean and are benefiting from your tours, and I guess you kind of answered that. But maybe to like direct my question a little bit more do you all do like any sort of like cleanups? If you were to bike by and if you were cycling on the side of the road and you did see a mound of trash like, would your guides take note to go back and clean it? Do you do any trail cleanups like that? Or how do you support these communities to make sure that they are staying clean and that they're benefiting from the tours?

Speaker 1: 28:48

So our guides are local and so that's a real feature of our trips that we hire people that come from the local communities where people are walking and hiking and biking and discovering, and so, yeah, it's really important to them that they clean up the places or work with us to clean up the places. And so occasionally we don't do sort of organized or haven't yet anyway, and maybe we will at some point in the future sort of organized cleanups from our trips, but sometimes the people want to do it themselves trips, but sometimes the people want to do it themselves. So the guide will if there's a really bad place, and they know they will bring along rubbish bags that people can put stuff into. And people are willingly doing this because they feel strongly about the nature, the community, the benefit that they want to help support. We also have a foundation, the Exodus Travels Foundation, and that works to help support and upskill people to invest in nature, and so we also have bigger grants and smaller grants, and some of those smaller grants do go into things like projects that help clean up destinations, and one of them in Indonesia.

Speaker 1: 30:03

We worked with the local guide who applied for a small grant, and they have collected bottles. Lots and lots and lots of bottles are wasted in Indonesia. It's a huge area of concern for the global plastic problem but they filled them with sand and they built a community center. So they created these eco bricks and so they built a community center, and that community center does language lessons and it does like community gatherings and it does dancing, and it's this fantastic resource now for people to um from the community to use, but then also for our visitors on our trips to come and just see how the community is benefiting from essentially from rubbish that you know it's now these eco bricks that have been turned into this community center.

Speaker 1: 30:52

So the foundation does work in a lot of areas where we know that there are particular problems, but our guides take the initiatives themselves very, very often.

Speaker 3: 31:01

Cool and I feel like the way that your trips are designed. It feels like the average person who's going on your trip has to somewhat care about the environment.

Speaker 3: 31:12

So I'm wondering like what is that? I want to call it like intake. Like what is that intake form that maybe, like a client comes to you with when they're booking their trip? Like, do people just show up to Exodus and be like, we want a sustainable trip and we understand how your trips run and that's what we're here for? Or do you have to like, educate clients through this idea of, like, a more responsible trip?

Speaker 1: 31:41

So I guess there's probably a continuum of people. There are some who are, yes, very engaged in nature and they want to go out and see wildlife and they know that by doing this kind of trip they will be helping to protect biodiversity. There are a lot of people who just want to see a part of the world and they just want to go for a bike ride. You know, they don't necessarily think first about nature, and that's great, you know, that's fine, and I guess on our trips as well, it's. It's never about don't do this, don't do this. Did you know this? It we're trying to help share the knowledge about how we can make things better by how we can make things more amazing. So you know, why is this meal so delicious? Well, mary, who lives in the house next door, she's grown all the vegetables and, and so they're super fresh and there's no pesticides and you know you can pick them today and eat them this evening, and and that's that's why your food tastes so amazing. So it's about showing people the why things are important and then hope that they sort of they get it, rather than telling them what to do and what not to do.

Speaker 1: 33:01

And we go to, you know we go to places that have been protected through tourism, and so people are told on the trips. You know, we're so lucky that we're able to see this because it's been protected through tourism and that helps them understand the value of tourism. We're able to go to people's houses in local communities because our guides are from those places, so they're able to have real, genuine interactions with people who, essentially, we all have the same values underneath. We're all exactly the same. We just speak different languages. So you can talk to people, even if you don't understand what their words are, through our body language and through our you know our facial expressions.

Speaker 1: 33:51

And so those experiences where people really can see how people live genuinely and have those experiences, are because we're able to visit. And then, you know, I think people understand that we're helping them, I think, to get a far deeper interaction with a place and with the people in those places. And yeah, I think that goes slightly differently to saying and our trips are sustainable. You know, that's not where we want to go. It's about the experience, about the magic, it's about something that you will never, ever forget, because we've been able to do it in a way that means that the world can be protected a little bit better.

Speaker 3: 34:42

Yeah, and it's almost like you're asking your customers to like immerse themselves in what they're being surrounded by. So that's super unique and really quite special. So I would love to pivot a little bit and talk about B-Tourism, which B-Tourism is one of the network hosted by B Corps for B Corps in the movement, and B-Tourism is obviously all about tourism. So I'd love to just kind of talk to you about this general idea of using your business for better as it relates to tourism. So, in your view, I'm wondering how important is collaboration and partnerships between travel companies to advance this idea of responsible travel and sustainability within the industry? And then, I guess, going a step further, if you think it is important, is there a successful collaboration or partnership that you've contributed to or that you've seen work?

Speaker 1: 35:44

I mean collaborations are absolutely fundamental to us being able to take action. And actually you know, it's goal 17, if we're going back to the Sustainable Development Goals collaboration for the world. That's really important, because I don't have all the answers. You don't have all the answers, but together we will have more answers and then, if we join up with others, they'll have more answers and then you're able to actually take action on certain things and create change and be this positive influence. So, as you know, like all B Corps, we have a purpose. We have to be about having a purpose in our business rather than just making profit. And so, by getting together with other B Corps, it's an easy way, because all of these companies are trying to do good things and trying to sort of step out of sort of traditional capitalist values, I suppose, and say, actually we want to do a little bit further. We want to make an impact, we want to help make places cleaner, we want to make jobs better, we want to help our community, whatever it might be. We want to do something slightly better. So B Tourism is a fantastic example of that, because they bring on guest speakers and they help to share knowledge and share ideas and you know, a really safe space because we can all trust one another. You know, we all recognize that. You know we don't have the answers ourselves and we need this help.

Speaker 1: 37:21

In the UK we have set up a group called Travel by B Corp, and we set this up during the COVID pandemic and we were all online in our bedrooms and off of home offices and recognized that, you know, travel wasn't moving at all. So we had a little bit of extra time and started thinking about well, what do we need? What should we be doing in the UK anyway to to start the industry thinking bigger, about some of our bigger problems, and and so Develop Travel by B Corp, and we had five of us to start with and we're now up to 35 members as of this week, which is fantastic and we all share our learning. And so, as an example, someone reached out to me the other day about a company travel policy. So what should companies be doing about their business travel? Business travel what should companies be doing about their business travel? Business travel is one of the scope three emissions. We should all be measuring it. We should be trying to reduce it wherever possible, particularly if it involves long haul flights, but also the mental health and wellness of people who are on the road a lot. So are there good examples among our community of travel policies that we should or could learn from, and so that's just one example that we're willing to share.

Speaker 1: 38:36

Another example is you know, we know that certain destinations again going back to my hatred of the bucket list terminology you know they're the ones that are always those that are sort of the travel industry pinups. You know they're the same pictures and the same images that just go around and around and around and therefore they become super, super crowded and actually really, really horrible. Because you're bustling for a place to see something for a minute, because somebody else is going to push you out of the way, and, and so we need, as an industry, to come together to say what are is going to push you out of the way, and so we need, as an industry, to come together to say what are we going to do about this? That places now are trying to restrict visitors. People have not been treated well in these places, they're all just commodities and actually the experience for tourists is not very good.

Speaker 1: 39:28

So what are our policies as responsible operators around over-tourism? What are we doing collectively or as companies ourselves, to say, actually, you know what? We're only going to have three trips a year visit these places. Or we're only going to have, if you're an accommodation provider, you know, four little villas in this destination because they're just, it's just not fair on the place. But also we believe that there are responsibilities. So it's things like this it's you know how we can help each other with carbon mapping? How can we help each other with these different policies? How can we make sure that we are being fair in ourselves? Many of our companies have volunteerism days or volunteering days, but people don't take them. So where are examples of companies that are really, really effective at taking their volunteer days? And you know it's really helpful. Sometimes sustainability can be quite lonely, because you're sometimes like a salmon swimming upstream, you know, trying to get people to do stuff that is not necessarily natural to them. Or it goes against the commercials, or it has to make them think differently, and it's a challenge sometimes.

Speaker 3: 40:48

And here are safe spaces where you know we can take the commercials, we can take the competitiveness away and just focus on what is the need that we're trying to achieve, what is the benefit that we're trying to create and support one another that way up so many amazing thoughts and questions and like points that I have a trip coming up that it like, it's, it's in my head as you're saying all these things and I'm like I wish I had this conversation with you before I booked my trip, because I'm like, oh yeah, I am going on that hike to that really famous place and you know, they did tell me that I had to book super early because they limit the amount of people that, like, they allow up every day.

Speaker 3: 41:41

And if I had this conversation with you before I booked that trip, would I still have booked that trip, knowing that, like, maybe this place is overcrowded and it's not good on the environment? Like, maybe this place is overcrowded and it's not good on the environment, and am I staying in the proper hotel that actually gives back to the environment? And maybe it's a smaller hotel? So I guess my final question to you is kind of like, for all the listeners out there that maybe are about to book or will book some of these adventure trips in the future, what should they focus on when they're looking for a responsible trip? And, like, how do they find, how do they find you or companies like you that they should be booking with?

Speaker 1: 42:33

Holidays are. You know, they're a privilege that we're so lucky because we live in certain parts of the world and we have this incredible standard of living and we have the ability to jump on a plane or a train or a bus or whatever it might be, and get somewhere else. That takes us out of our daily life, and I think that is such a privilege and I think we have to recognize that. Because it's a privilege, it also comes with a responsibility, and it comes with a responsibility on us to say is this the right thing to do? And there are companies, there are B Corps, but there are other great companies that are doing really, really good things and so, but there are other great companies that are doing really, really good things. And so, you know, does this company that you're looking at, you know, is it really doing good things? There's a lot of greenwashing out there. There's a lot of, you know. We say that we're doing something, but actually we're really not. So how are they embedding these kind of principles in their business? I think a big one as well is a climate action plan. Any company that has a climate action plan has really started to think about how they have an impact on the world. And I think, if anything, you just look for companies that are starting to take this action quite seriously, starting to take this action quite seriously, and ask these questions you know, think about when you live in your community.

Speaker 1: 43:57

Would you want a busload of people from another part of the world, let's say from Mars even? Come down and what would they think of your place? What would you want them to experience? That's in many ways, that's what we're doing in a lot of ways, when we're going on these trips in great masses to somebody's home. These are people's homes. How are we ensuring that we are giving to these people's homes and that we're learning from them and we're not just gawking at them and we're engaging with them, and we're not just gawking at them and we're engaging with them and they're benefiting, and that they can then go on? And if they're in the global south, and if they're people that haven't had very much industry in the past, can we support them so that their kids can go to school and become doctors and lawyers and help their whole country and community grow? Tourism has a real benefit of being able to take people to places that other industries can't and to really support nature in a way that other industries can't, nature in a way that other industries can't. And I think, again, you know it sort of comes back to what I feel is just a responsibility to ask questions.

Speaker 1: 45:16

You know, how much benefit is this trip going to have in this place? Just ask the question.

Speaker 3: 45:21

Wow, so insightful and very educational, and you're opening my eyes to things I just didn't think about, so I appreciate you sharing all of that with me.

Speaker 1: 45:35

Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity. I hope I didn't get on my soapbox too much. I do. I feel really passionate about just trying to be better. I don't say I don't have all these answers, you know I I am certainly not perfect. I know I have a high carbon impact and I'm just trying to be a little bit better in myself and then how I choose the things that I do and the company I want to work for and the communities that I want that company to be part of, and that makes me feel a little bit better about how I can have an impact. I guess I was reading something the other day, you weren't? You were telling me, wasn't it About a carbon handprint as well as a carbon footprint? Yeah, and I really liked that. How can, how can I help people with my hands in a way that you know stomping with my feet might not be doing the right thing?

Speaker 3: 46:40

Well, and that's kind of the exact point of this podcast too, I feel like I'm not perfect. You've definitely taught me some things right now. That I'm realizing about my upcoming trip is it's not perfectly planned, but you know what. The next trip will be planned a little bit better, a little bit more responsible, because you've shared with me some questions that I should be asking and that I didn't consider. So that's the whole point of the podcast is just to be learning from each other and sharing with each other, and I really I thank you a ton for sharing everything that you have in that, in that space. Is there anything that you feel like you really wanted to share that you haven't been able to yet?

Speaker 1: 47:23

I don't think so, I guess. Yeah, I don't want you to feel guilty about your holiday. I want you to go and have the most amazing time and, when you are there, take the time to see what you can do while you're there to help the places and the people that you're visiting. That's all yeah, and if you can do one thing a little bit better, that's one thing more than you were going to do, so that's great.

Speaker 2: 48:06

Thank you for joining us on Responsibly Different a campfire consulting initiative. We hope today's conversation has sparked new ideas and inspired action towards purposeful leadership and sustainable choices For insights and strategies that elevate your brand story in a meaningful way. Visit us at campfireconsulting. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and share, as every interaction helps spread the warmth of responsible living. Until next time, keep the fire of curiosity alive and embrace the power of being responsibly different.