#106: Dr. Benjamin Hardy: 10X is Easier Than 2X - The Best Way to Level Up You Life

What if reaching seemingly impossible goals was actually easier than reaching practical goals?

Good news, it is!

In this conversation with our friend and mentor Dr. Benjamin Hardy Phd, we dig into his new book 10X is Easier than 2X . The truth is you can actually simplify your life and  magnify your impact at the same time by setting much bigger goals. Goals that would be impossible for your current self. Listen in to find out why 10X is not about working harder but changing your approach.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

• What is 10X about?
• The next level of your life
• Qualitative vs. Quantitative growth
• Small goals are harder than big goals
• Big goals help you focus on what matters
• Optimize for where you want to be in 10 years
• 10X is easier than 2X
• Attention is our most finite resource
• The 80/20 rule
• Choose freedom over security
• Doing less better
• Focus flow and recovery flow
• Let the future decide your present
• Ben's 10X transformation

ACTION STEP FROM THE EPISODE:
Do a quick review of the things you are currently focused on. Now ask yourself what's going to matter in 10 years. Begin to use that as your filter to direct your attention to the things you really want to grow.

RESOURCES FROM THIS EPISODE

• Snag the book 10x Is Easier than 2x: How World-Class Entrepreneurs Achieve More by Doing Less
• Download your Free Habit Tracker to build habits around your 10X goals
• Launch your week with our FREE MAGIC MONDAY NEWSLETTER 

READY TO LEARN THE MOST IMPORTANT SKILL OF YOUR LIFE?
Master the fundamentals of habit building and start living your best life now!
>>CHECK OUT THE COURSE<<

KICK YOUR WEEK OFF RIGHT! SUBSCRIBE TO THE FREE MAGIC MONDAY NEWSLETTER
Three things you'll get every Monday with this 2-5 minute micro-dose of inspiration:

1. A habit tip to help you crush your goals
2. A mind-expanding idea you can explore with us
3. A must-read/listen recommendation to inspire you

OUR MISSION
We're on a mission to guide 1 million people in taking daily steps toward their biggest dreams through simple habits by 2027.

P.S. We have a goal to get to 100 reviews on Apple Podcasts—send us an email with a picture of your review to hello@habitmasters.com and we'll send you a 50% off coupon code to our 7 Day Habit Mastery Course!

Transcript

Sheldon Mills: 0:00

welcome to have a masters. I'm Sheldon. I'm Jeff and we have a special guest, Ben Hardy. He's been on before, obviously he's amazing. He's gonna talk about his new book that just came out. 10 x is easier than two x. I'm about to get that backwards. It is a good conversation as always. We love these conversations. Any more preface for that, Jeff?

Jeff Corrigan: 0:19

Co-authored with Dan Sullivan, who is Oh, yeah. The world's foremost entrepreneurial coach. He runs the company called Strategic Coach. Yeah.

Sheldon Mills: 0:28

Yeah. This is a good one. Not particularly long. We think you'll like it, Ben Hardy.

Jeff Corrigan: 0:35

Welcome back to the show, Ben. We're always excited to have you friend, mentor all these things. Now what are we going on three years now that we've been connecting in a little while? Has it been that long?

Benjamin Hardy: 0:46

At least two. So who not how came out at the end of 2020? And I haveve known you basically since that book has come out. So it's been about two and a half years. Yeah. All right.

Jeff Corrigan: 0:55

Come on a while here. It's been awesome.

Sheldon Mills: 0:58

We want to talk about your newest book that comes out. So probably about the same day this podcast goes out.

Jeff Corrigan: 1:04

Yeah. What May 9th, right? You got the

Benjamin Hardy: 1:06

launch? Yeah. Next Tuesday. A week from today. Awesome.

Jeff Corrigan: 1:09

Go. Yep. We'll go the same week. So it'll be within a couple of days of the launch. New book came out., 10 X is easier than two x,

Benjamin Hardy: 1:18

right? Yep. Third book with Dan Sullivan. It was a lot of fun. Definitely my deepest book.

Sheldon Mills: 1:24

I've heard you say that this is, maybe' I'm putting words in your mouth. This is the best book you feel you've ever

Benjamin Hardy: 1:29

written. Is that true? I think so, but that's my opinion. Okay.

Jeff Corrigan: 1:34

I know the last book that we read Future Self was phenomenal and I loved that book and it's really given me like a whole new perspective on creating my own life. And I think 10 x is essentially the amplifier to that, right? It's it's basically setting up your future self for the 10 x. So tell people what you mean by 10 x because I think the thing that I get the most comments about when I'm, cuz I'm in some of your pods and mastermind groups and things, and I think the thing that people come to the most is that, oh, what, like 10 x? It seems overwhelming or like I have to add all this extra stuff into my life, but that's not really what it's about.

Benjamin Hardy: 2:11

No, I actually think that 10 x is an analogy for going, to your next level. So like we all have a next level. If you've heard or studied like the whole hero's journey, there's this idea of being called to a next level. And if you've studied any Victor Frankl, who wrote the book, man Search For Meaning, he talks a lot about the need for a sense of purpose and mission and meaning if you don't have any sense of purpose to getting to some next level of life. Then your present loses meaning and you honestly have no purpose. And so I look at 10 x as the clarity and the honesty about the next 10 x level or it's the next level of your life. But it's also an invitation to make that level a lot higher, like to think a lot bigger. And I obviously in the book go over, a lot of the research talking about, for example, having bigger, higher impossible goals is actually strategic. It's actually practical. I think a lot of times people. As an example, they don't really spend time imagining their future self, Albert Einstein that imagination is more important than knowledge and mm-hmm. I, I would say that, trying to keep this simple in the beginning. Why I like this whole idea of 10 x versus two X is that a lot of people have actually talked about 10 x, but they had never defined its opposite. So yeah, Dan, this is why I love Dan's thinking, is he creates what he calls binary models where you've got like one side and you got the other, and the opposite side is a. The thing you don't want to do. So for example, he's got who not how, right? And he trying to get you over to the who side of that equation so that you're becoming more of a leader rather than doing everything yourself. You're actually like developing teamwork. Obviously the gap in the gain, right? The gap is when you're always measuring yourself against where you think you should be and you're devaluing your life, you're devaluing your past. And so the gain is a much more hopeful, more grateful, more positive. More intrinsically motivating approach. And so this is, this book is cool in my mind because it describes 10 x in comparison to its opposite. Which is two x and two x is a more linear approach. It's letting the past dictate who you are and what you do. It's really going for linear growth. And it's a past driving model, whereas 10 X is a future driven model and it's about stretching that future, having it be a lot more exciting, a lot more powerful than letting that future decide who you are and what you do in the present.

Jeff Corrigan: 4:12

And I love that example because that's what really, cuz I've, I heard 10 X a lot, right? Like I read the book 10 x 10 x by yeah. By who writes that all of a sudden? I can't think of his name. Cardone? Yeah. Grant Cardone. Yes. Grant Cardone. I wrote his book and uh, thought that was pretty interesting. His is more about just do more. He's got oh, this amp up your life. Do more, post, more, do that, da. Don't be afraid to like really put yourself out there. And to an extent, I think that's great, but a lot of people are overwhelmed already. So I loved how you look at it more from you talk about this as a qualitative change more than a quant, more than a quantitative change. And you gave an example in a post you did. Probably a few months ago about a conversation you were having in or in a mastermind group of some kind, and Dr. Bernard right. Talked about this. That was like one of the best solidifiers for me of okay, this is what 10 X is really about and what it amplifies for you. Do you wanna share that example with us?

Benjamin Hardy: 5:08

I think I know which one you're talking about. I want you to steer me in the right direction. Yes. I think

Jeff Corrigan: 5:12

you're in a group, like a genius group with Joe Polish. Yeah,

Benjamin Hardy: 5:14

yeah. Okay, so here's an example. Here's an example. So I think Joe Polish was asking everyone to sit and journal about how can you increase your revenue by 10% over the next year. And so we sat and we did that. We sat and we journaled on that for a minute or two or three, and then we had a discussion about it. And Dr. Alan Bernard, who is a theorist on a concept called constraint theory. It's a decision making theory. He basically said that, that's a really bad question. And the reason it's a bad question is because there are literally infinite things you could do. To grow by 10%, which means it doesn't really create clarity. Mm-hmm. Like I could do 500 things to increase my book sales by 10%, but that goal doesn't actually invite me to figure out what are the most effective things I could do. And he actually invites you not to think 10% bigger, but to think 10 x bigger. Because if you make the goal 10 x bigger than almost none of the things you're doing are gonna work. Because that goal is so big, so massive that. Pretty much everything you're doing right now won't get you there, which means it's really valuable. That's a goal that's really useful and valuable because most of what you're doing right now is actually a distraction towards that goal, and so it forces you to be a lot more honest and discerning about how you're spending your time. It also, using the 80 20 principle, it invites you to more easily see the 80% of what you're doing, which is pretty much resulting in very little results. And it, you know it, it helps you identify. The few key pathways or strategies or relationships that are gonna have the biggest potential upside. And so having bigger goals simplifies the process. It helps you weed out most of the stuff you're doing, which doesn't have that big of an impact and is mostly a distraction. So yeah, that was I think, example of Bernard.

Jeff Corrigan: 6:50

Yeah. And that was awesome for me. As a small business owner, I think you can get really caught up in just the day-to-day stuff. And so that was huge. In focusing more on okay, what are the things I'm doing that are just like going through the motions, the routines, like stuff that has to get done, but I probably shouldn't be the one doing it, right? The 80 20 rule, going back to that, the 80% that you really should be giving up to someone else, the who, not how, and and trading up to what will take you 10 x and it really realigned and helped me set new goals with my brother for our business. And then even as a podcast, Sheldon and I have talked about this. A nauseum, right? So like constantly just go reiterating oh, what do we gotta do? Like, where are we gonna go? Type of thing. So that was super helpful. Sheldon, you got a question? Cuz I, we can go so many places with this. You talked about 80 20, so many exciting things.

Benjamin Hardy: 7:41

Let me, Let me share a practical example. Yes. Real quick. So I, in the book, I actually tell this story of my son Caleb, who is a 15 year old high school freshman who plays tennis. He wants to play college tennis. And his coach asked him, and this was like six months ago or eight months ago, who knows when I was writing the book, but his coach basically asked him, Caleb, what is your goal? And Caleb said, my goal is to play college tennis. And his coach said why isn't your goal to go pro? And basically Caleb said, I don't know, because that's not my goal. And basically because I was studying Alan Bernard's work in constraint theory, I have the framework or the idea that if you make the goal higher, call it a quantum leap, higher, going from college to going to pro, that's what I would call a 10 x jump. That's a, that's essentially a next level, a quantum leap. I know that if I made the goal higher, The process would be simpler because it would weed out almost all the trash that is a distraction. And so I knew that concept and so I was basically just wanting to understand Caleb's thinking. Not to change his thinking, but I just said, Caleb, what'd you think about your coach's comment about you shifting your goal from college to pro? And he is I don't know. I said I, I don't really care either way, but mostly my question is, do you think that your current path, your current trajectory will actually get you to college? And he said, I think so. I'm pretty sure I think I'm on a pretty dang good path. He plays for his high school team. He's in an academy. He's got a coach. And so he is yeah, I think so. And I said, what about pro? Do you think that your current trajectory would get you to the pro level? And it was very obvious to him that the answer was no. Like absolutely not. That was where our conversation ended. But when I was thinking about it in terms of here in Orlando, Florida, where I live, this is like a tennis mecca. There are literally hundreds of coaches here in Orlando that could get my son. Conceivably to the college level. There's a lot of academies, a lot of coaches, a lot of programs. But there are far less, back to the idea of higher goals. Have less options. Yeah. Far less coaches that could get him to the pro level. I would say there are 10 times more coaches that could get him to the college level than could get him to the pro level. And so if he made his goal higher, It would force us to look a lot more critically at his process, at his coaches, at his practice. And this then gets you to the whole notion of deliberate practice. That deliberate practice is very different from the 10,000 hour rule. It's not about doing something for 10,000 hours mm-hmm. that you get better. You can, for example, like most people are worse drivers than they were 10 years ago, even though they've driven for 10,000 hours. It's not about continuing experie. Good example. Yeah. No, it's really not about accumulating experience. It's about what does that experience? Essentially, Taking you towards. And so if you raise the standard, if you raise the goal, and if you're serious about that standard, then it's gonna force a very different process. My son, Caleb, for example, would have to find a new coach. He'd have to become aware of a lot of things that he honestly just wouldn't need to get aware of if he was going for college. There's a lot higher margin for error if you're going for college, whereas if he's going for pro, he's gonna have to become a lot more of a master. And so therefore his process, his practice is gonna be a lot more intense. But it's also gonna be simpler. We're gonna weed out most of the stuff that doesn't matter. His higher level coaches that know that process are gonna help us identify the few things that are gonna make the biggest impact, that 20%. And we don't have to worry about most of the other things. And so higher goals just simplify the process. There's less pathways to higher goals. And so it's just, that's I think a big concept there. Yeah. That's fantastic. But forces you get a lot better too, a lot faster, and I'll be a lot more honest and find a much better quote unquote process. Deliberate practice if you're going for higher goals.

Jeff Corrigan: 11:16

That's a great example. That's really good.

Sheldon Mills: 11:20

I know you've talked a lot. I know that family is a huge driver in your life, right? Relationships with your spouse, your children, and how do you, I've described 10 x two x, two x is grinding harder. 10 x is, you have to fundamentally think and approach things differently. I. Right. So how would you, how does 10 X come into your goals with your relationships, with your children, with your things that are, a little less quantifiable, like going from collegiate to pro, 5 million a year to 50 million,

Benjamin Hardy: 11:49

things like that. Yeah, so I, again, I look at 10 x more as the next level. I look at it qualitative. For example, for me, a 10 x is going from crawling to walking, right? It's going from a horse and buggy to a car. It's Steve Jobs going from CDs to the iPod, right? There's still music, but now he's stripped away the 80% of the trash about buying music and stuff like that. Where now you can all ha, you can buy the songs and have 'em all in one place, all in your pocket, right? That's the qualitative transformation that leads now to new opportunities. So in terms of like my family I love the quote, and this is different than 10 x. So 10 x is obviously about bigger or better, but also when I think about future self, it's about thinking further out. And so I love the idea, I love the idea and the concept that it's better to optimize for where your life will be in 10 years from now versus where it will be in 10 days from now. And like if I think about my feature self 10 years from now and I start to really. There's four levels. First you have to think about it like imagination is more important than knowledge. You have to actually think about who your future self is, and most people don't spend much time thinking about their future self. They don't. Recognize that their future self is in a different place, has different cares, different worries, is, has a different perspective until they read your book then yeah. Yeah. But you wanna go from thinking to connecting emotionally and then ultimately to committing. And then committing leads to strategizing. And strategizing is where you find those new pathways. You let go the 80% and stuff like that. But if I was to think about my future self 10 years from now, I know my future self 10 years from now is going to care more about my family. And less about my career than I do now, right? And my family is of very high value to my future self. The reason I, I think thinking far out, so you obviously can think far out, but you can also think far up. But I think far out actually is the first. Order of business, thinking about what's gonna matter to my future self. Call it five, ten, fifteen, twenty years from now. That helps you prioritize what you then wanna scale up. And I wanna think out first, and then if I want, I can 10 x that. And like I know that my future self is gonna care about my relationship with my kids. I know that my future self is going to care about their success, their progress. And I want those relationships are gonna be massively important. So for me, I view 10 x as three things. 10 X is really about identity. And it's about your time where you spend your time, and it's really about your leadership. And I view leadership as mostly about trust. And I know that you guys know the quote, teach correct principles, let them govern themselves. Mm-hmm. I don't Who actually was that is, is that actually a Joseph Smith quote? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I love that quote. And I think the thing that I've been learning. And I think, if I think about my next 10 x stage, which is my guess, it's gonna be over the next three to five years trust is a big part of that. Trusting myself more, trusting God more, trusting my kids more, giving more trust. And so giving more trust, giving more love not needing to overly correct so fast. I think that if I think about. You know what trust means? If you're a leader, you don't have to overly micromanage, right? And I think about my kids. I think maybe I've micromanaged a lot more the last five years, whereas I think I can go to a higher place of leadership, of giving trust of giving vision and teaching, but at the same time letting them govern themselves. And that's something that I've been shifting on with my family a lot more is. A lot more trust and a lot more love and helping them know that I trust them, helping them know I love them. If I was to compare the last five years, there was a lot less of the language of I love you. Whereas now it's a big priority to me that I say, I love you to each of my kids. And so I'd say over the next five years, the language of I love you and also giving a lot more trust is gonna be 10 times more, 10 times better. And I I think that's just, that's kinda where I'm going with it.

Jeff Corrigan: 15:27

That's cool. That's very cool.

Sheldon Mills: 15:29

I really like this idea of going from two x to 10 X is to, it's where your focus is, what's your priorities? We tend to get stuck in here. Here.

Benjamin Hardy: 15:38

Now, there only few things worth 10 Xing. I think that's a really important question is what do you want to 10 x what's worth 10 Xing? And I think that the future self helps you prioritize the few things that really matter and the 80% of things that really won't matter right now. 80% of your life right now isn't gonna really matter that much in 10 years.

Jeff Corrigan: 15:54

Yeah, that's a great way of looking at it. I've actually heard people talk about that with a relationship with their spouse. It's is this gonna matter in 10 years then don't make it a big deal. That's just a way, 80%. Yeah, exactly right. It's an 80%. But you could do, I like that approach where you could apply that to everything you're doing. It's if it's not gonna matter in 10 years, it's most likely in the 80% realm. That's an interesting thought. So it's not gonna

Benjamin Hardy: 16:14

matter in 10 years, it's probably not worth 10 Xing.

Jeff Corrigan: 16:17

That's, I love that.

Benjamin Hardy: 16:18

Yes. It's don't 10 x, but it's a few. But if it's a few things that matter in 10 years, then why not 10 X or a hundred x I'm a hundred years, or sorry, 10 years is a really long time, so like in 10 years, if you're really clear on the few things that matter, you could definitely 10 x those two or three things. I love the quote. I think we've probably shared it, the quote from Jim Collins where said, if you have more than three priorities, you have none. So I like to think like in 10 years from now, what are the three most important things to my future self? Okay, sweet. Now that's my priority. Now what's the 10 x version or even a hundred x version of those things in 10 years? Okay, sweet. Now I've got my standard. Now I can start deliberately practicing towards that, right? And I can start weeding out most of the things right now that. It just don't matter. This is why having a 10 x vision is a lot more strategic, right? Like I can use that 10 year future self and make it 10 times bigger. And then that, that immediately starts simplifying my focus and my strategy. Right now. I might start making tweaks right now. That to the average person, they may make absolutely no sense, but I'm making those. Being thoughtful about where they're gonna lead me in 10, 15 years from now, not 10 days from now. And so people, like they may not make sense to the more kind of present based mind.

Jeff Corrigan: 17:26

Yeah. Because real realistically, no matter what you change in 10 days, it's not gonna change that much. But over time, those have high impact. Compound. I'll just,

Benjamin Hardy: 17:35

I'll just quickly say this real quick. Sorry to interrupt you as well. No, you're good. 10 days really doesn't matter that much. Like I, I love the quote from Dan Gilbert. He wrote, or he's like a Harvard psychologist who spent a lot of time studying future self and he just talks about how your present self is as temporary and as fleeting as the present moment. And so I think when you have a growth mindset, you're okay. If things aren't that epic 10 days from now, you're okay. If things are a little messy, you're okay. If you're still a beginner, like 10 days doesn't really matter because your current self is very temporary and you're more, connected to your longer term future self five, 10 years from now. And so you're okay going through the process of ups and downs over the next 10 days doesn't really matter cuz you're more connected to a longer term vision. So I think it just allows you to have more of a growth mindset.

Jeff Corrigan: 18:18

Yeah, that's really cool. Cuz it, coaching youth baseball, there's kids who'll be like, oh I hate batting. I'm not good at batting. I'm like Not yet. It's you're not yet obviously, and it's probably not gonna change by the next time you're at bat but if you keep practicing day in and day out, give it a season, give it two seasons, maybe you'll be an incredible batter. Like you're talking about. I think it's having that long view is so valuable for the goals we're setting day to day. The second part of this where you say Hey, 10 X is easier than two x. And I think Sheldon mentioned it, but he mentioned like, Hey I consider two x just grinding harder versus 10 x, which is a whole shift in my mindset, but give us your example of why is 10 X easier than two

Benjamin Hardy: 18:59

x. So there's a lot of reasons why it's easier. Number one, you actually have to make it easier in order for 10 x to be a possibility. So if you're committed to it being difficult, then you're committed to number one, doing it all your own, right? Mm-hmm. So like So there are principles and practices. That make 10 x a lot easier. One is obviously the goal is higher, so that simplifies the process. Weeds out the 80%, number two is that it's really about quality over quantity. And so if I go deep into, my 10 x goal, whatever it is gonna become the filter for what I do in the present. And so that's gonna filter out 80% or more of what I'm doing now, and it's gonna identify the 20% that I go deep on. And it invites me then to go deep, not shallow. And that's I think where. Things like innovation happen, that's where the qualitative change happens. And so for me, if I go deep on my 20%, whatever that is, that's relevant to where I wanna deliberately practice and become 10, 10 times better. Maybe it's me writing 10 times better books, right? But if I actually do that, then 10 x bigger is not that difficult. Also, bigger goals invite leadership. And so if I'm clear on my 10 x and my 20%, then you know, you already mentioned it, who not how free yourself up from doing 50 things and actually. Get someone to handle those for you, where you just freed up your attention to go deeper. So 10 X forces simplicity. It forces simplicity of strategy, but also simplicity of attention, where you focus on a lot less, but you go a lot deeper, higher quality, less quantity of attention. Dr. Alan Bernard talks a lot about return on attention. So a big aspect of constraint theory, which is what he studies, is the idea of a bottleneck. And a bottleneck is essentially the thing. That needs to be resolved in order to achieve a goal. And they talk about in constraint theory, the number one bottleneck is our attention span. Like our attention is our most finite resource. And if your attention is spread thin across 50 different things, then your attention is shallow. It's not deep. And so bigger goals, force you, they force you to be really honest that most of your attention is being spent. On things that are not the bottleneck, they're on things that are essentially wasteful, that 80% of things that aren't making any difference. And so you wanna, if you have a bigger goal, obviously put your attention towards that bottleneck, which is the 20%, and go really deep on that and transform that so that the 10 X becomes really useful. And then you can free your attention. From all the rest, you can give that to a who or just eliminate it, delegate it, remove it all together so that your attention is on less but better. And so then this kind of invites you into the research on flow. Not only is your attention on less but better and you're going deeper, but obviously then you wanna design your life for high performance and flow. And so that's where you start focusing on deep focus, but also deep recovery. So then you wanna start designing your days. Less around being busy doing 50 things to going deep, doing one or two, right? So if I'm gonna, if I'm writing a book, rather than trying to do 10 things, it's maybe I only have one goal today. And that's just to write that single chapter or to think through this single problem. Or maybe it's just to take the full day off and recover. If you start studying, really top performers, call LeBron James, or people who are at the top of their game, recovery takes a front seat. So rather than always being busy, always grinding, it's no, I'm gonna go really deep. Really focused while I'm focused and I'm gonna really step back and really recover and really have enjoyment and play. They call it psychological detachment from work. Others call it active recovery, but like I'm going to turn off and be in flow over here and focus on my family or on fun or something else. And that actually, as weird as it sounds, It's like very counterintuitive by taking time off, by being away, by recovering, also sleeping better by doing less, but better. You just are more, you're honestly just a much higher performer. Most people just don't even know what it means to like, actually, go to Workday recovered and focused on one thing, going deep and knocking something out so that in that day, They get a massive return on that attention, like they, their future self is constantly benefited because of the work they did versus just grinding through another day.

Jeff Corrigan: 23:00

That is like a golden nugget of having a more fulfilling life

Benjamin Hardy: 23:04

every, but it's also every day the 10 x. As weird as this sounds being recovered, Being more of a performer. If you study high performance, it's really about focus and recovery less but better, and doing less with your mind and time and going deeper, becoming 10 times better at what you do. Doing a few things really well versus 50 things mediocre. Becoming more of a leader and having more teamwork team, like more trust. Like these, these are just the components of a 10 x psychology and it really. It's easier, but it's more transformative. If you think about Frankle as an example, back to Frankle, like he was very adamant that you needed a future self or a future vision or purpose to give your life meaning. But also, he would always quote the quote, when you have a Y to live for, you can bear anyhow, but also you'll find the how. And so I think that with the two x mindset, you're honestly. Going linear from your past. And that's not very purposeful, it's not very powerful. It keeps you in the 80%. It doesn't force you to transform. It doesn't force you to be honest. It doesn't force you into flow. You can be really busy and grinding away to get two, two x, but 10 x it really forces a lot more honesty, simplicity depth and leadership. And so it is a lot easier and it's a lot easier to be driven by a future vision versus just maintaining the past. It's easier on the mind, and I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying it's, yeah, it's not right. As an example, it is a lot easier for Caleb to go to college if he made his goal to go pro. If he made the vision 10 x bigger, it would be a lot easier to achieve even his college goal. Because if we made his goal to go pro, we would be forced to get him a better coach. Forced to have him have better conditioning. Like he would have to be a lot more honest about a lot of things in his training and it would actually be very easy to get into college if his goal was to go pro. But if his goal was to go college, it would be very difficult because there's a lot more complexity with smaller goals.

Jeff Corrigan: 24:58

Yeah, that's I think something that's just like really, it's amazing, but can be really hard to grasp for people because we've been living in this two x mindset for so long, driven by our past, driven by these past identities. And so having the shift, like you've talked about in both

Benjamin Hardy: 25:12

these books too, let the future determine the present, not the past. Perfect. Exactly. Future, the filter for what you say Yes and no to not the past.

Jeff Corrigan: 25:21

Yep., that alone Has been such a valuable mental shift for me too, is like letting go of some of these past identities and being able to be driven by your future versus the opposite. I think, and maybe we

Benjamin Hardy: 25:34

always are, but this is more of a spiritual slash religious example, but yeah, if you make the goal as high as you can imagine, usually there's only one path to get there, right? You hear the term, the straight and narrow path, right? If you make your goal really high, it ends up being that not everything will get you there, right? Less options. When you make the goal higher, it simplifies the process, simplifies the path, forces you to be honest, that most of the things don't matter and just a few things do. And so when you make the goal very high. There typically becomes a lot less options, which forces honesty. It forces focus, it forces UNC uncommit to the things that are holding you back your past self. So I just think it's a useful orientation to think far out. And then far up, it just really simplifies who you are and what you do. And truth is, most people don't do either of those things. Most people aren't thinking very deeply about their future self, and most people's goals are past driven and they're honestly externally driven based on kind of the standards and norms of those around them. Yeah. Why?

Sheldon Mills: 26:32

Why do you think it's human nature to drive looking at the rear view mirror rather than the future?

Benjamin Hardy: 26:39

I think that's how we're trained to think about time. We're trained to think about time as the past determines the present. And yeah, if I wanna understand who you are, Sheldon, I just want to recount a history of your past and figure out what led you to being who you are now. And I think that's just a it's how time feels. It feels like the past is, driving the present and then the present is driving the future. But it's a lot more effective to have the future drive the present and the present to drive the past. As weird as that sounds, you let the present determine the meaning of the past. You reshape the past continuously based on where you're at in the present. And so, I don't know. I just think it's common. It's cliche, it's it's not very thoughtful to just let the past. Be the domino that's knocking you over and using the past as the excuse and the reason versus taking ownership of the past, transforming the past, learning from the past, being a lot more thoughtful, being a lot more mindful, and then being a lot more imaginative about the future. It's a lot more intrinsic to, to do it that way. Like you have to use your mind, you have to use your imagination. You have to use, your, you also have to be willing to change. Like you don't have any, you don't have to have an excuse to change if your past led you to where you're at. Your past is the reason. Therefore, the past is, What's responsible. Whereas if you increase your responsibility and your mind and your intention, then you take responsibility over your past. You turn it from a liability to an asset, something that. You feel it's costing you or worsening you to something that's improving you, something you're grateful for. It takes a lot of intention and a lot of responsibility to take ownership of the past and then to let the future, which you imagine on your own, based on what you value, based on what you think is important, you let that future ultimately be the dictator of what you say yes and no to, just takes a lot more responsibility. And I think that as a whole we try to create models that relinquish our responsibility. And so as a result, we would just say that the past is the, is what's responsible and this is where I'm at. I don't have much say, and that's that.

Jeff Corrigan: 28:36

Yeah. That's awesome. We talk a lot about ownership and taking responsibility on the show, but you actually would, before we started this episode, I, we were talking a little bit and you were talking about how I think you, you had a 10 x jump. Where you were working with Dan Sullivan writing all these books and you came to the place where you feel like 10 x Yeah. Like a ma a major jump. And and then you were just telling us like the future is and where you're headed. And then next 10 x jump you, I dunno what you wanna share here, but tell us a little bit about that. Where are you coming from and where are you wanting to go?

Benjamin Hardy: 29:10

The main thing here is that if you take this concept seriously, so like I look at, and this is something that Dan Sullivan fundamentally came up with. He's really brilliant at making models. So like when I was writing this book, I would ask Dan lots of questions and in the book, thinking Grow Rich, which is an old classic book, right? He explains the idea of the Mastermind. And the Mastermind is the idea of when essentially two minds come together. They create a third mind, right? And the third mind is the mastermind, and then it's, the whole is different from the sum of both parts. So there was never really this explicit 80 20 10 X versus two x model before I started writing this book, even though Dan's been teaching this idea for 20 years. Because I really wanted to get clarity. And then he came back to me with this little model because he's brilliant at making model. But if you take this model seriously that every time you go 10 x or go through a hero's journey process of going from one level to the next that vision is going to identify, quote unquote, a 20% that you've gotta go all in on. And an 80% you're gonna have to let go of that 80% is what got you here, but it won't get you there. And so if you take that idea seriously, and by the way, the 20% represents freedom, whereas the 80% represents security. The 80% is your security blanket. It's what you hold onto. Out of habit or because it's comfortable. It's your, yeah your past identity, right? It's yeah, a hundred percent. It's your past identity. It's what's comfortable to you. It could be your paycheck, it could be your habits, right? Whatever it is, it's your 80%. It's your pass off. It's not your future stuff. Therefore, it's familiar and it's security. It's safe. Whereas the 20% and going all in on that is not necessarily safe. It's risky. Therefore, it takes commitment and courage. But that's also where freedom is. That's where intrinsic motivation is. That's where, and I take this idea very seriously. When I was writing this book, I was just, I let my future and my next level, 10 x future determine my present, not my past. And so even something as powerful as my collaboration with Dan Sullivan can become something that becomes linear, becomes something that's more representative of my past and becomes a part of my 80%, unless we can find a way. And if you're flexible, if you're creative, you can potentially find ways to make this adjust so that it can fit your 10 x. But if you can't find those ways, then you're just beating your head against the wall and, we did have conversations and we just really, it just became clear that my future self was different and then it became clear that, with what I wanted, their future self was different as well, and, I think that often when you're letting go of the 80% you go through this, like you can either be frustrated, you can grieve it, you can be, it's letting go of anything. You you can be upset about it or you can celebrate it. You can be in the gap about it or you can be in the gain about it. And in terms of me, I think it's really good to just celebrate it, be seeing the, see the gain, see the progress, see the growth. Massive celebration. Shape, the story and the narrative as an asset, not a liability. Something you're grateful for, something you're better for and not bitter because of, and just be grateful and move on. And then let the future continue to shape you and move you forward. And that future, it's like when you And I think I've talked to you guys about, I know I've talked to you guys about it, but I just, I love the book Peaks and Valleys, right? You go to these peaks and valleys and every level is gonna have lessons, and in order to get to the top, to get to the next level, you've gotta learn the lessons. And there's that whole idea of lessons are repeated until they're learned. And so once you effectively learn those lessons, and you get to the next level, you're now on a new peak. And from that new peak, you can see new options, new opportunities that your former self couldn't see down in the valley, right at the bottom. And so now, As your future self at your new quote unquote 10 X level, you can now imagine, see, and choose a much better future than your former self could have ever thought of. And so therefore, it's not gonna be linear. It's going to be different because your future self is different and they can see and value things that are more important. And so I only say all that to say that. The quote unquote next level or the 10 x that I'm gonna go for now isn't gonna directly look like my last 10 x. It's going to mm-hmm. be different. And it's, and it's from my current self that I'm now seeing new and more important future selves. And then I'm gonna let that future self dictate what I do in the present, and it's gonna shape my next 20% deep dive. And my next 80% let go of exciting. Yes, it is. Have fun though. I think you guys do that. And I think it, it's, it is scary though. It takes a lot of commitment and courage to let the future be honest with that and take that next call. I think a big part of the hero's journey is the, Call to adventure and the first, you have this call to this next level, but then the second, the next thing that comes after that is, is that you resist the call. And yeah, that's true resistance. You have a resistance to that sense of purpose and mission to that is inviting you, calling you to this next stage and you prefer to stay comfortable in your current station. And so it takes a lot of commitment and courage to let those things go and sometimes it's a complicated process unraveling your current life. And letting go of various relationships. A lot of people, and I say this knowing your guys' religious background, but I say a lot of people who read and understand this, realize that they, their marriage is in the 80%. I don't, and I'm not someone who suggests divorce, but a lot of people, their relationships were built. In a terrible model, in a terrible fashion, and they've, and so again, I don't, I'm not saying I necessarily suggest that, I'm just saying that's something that often can happen is that when you start to be a lot more honest about your life, you just, you start to analyze and see the areas of your life that are totally out of congruence. Yeah. For me, I'm grateful and I'm happy enough that I got married with my massive future self in my mind. And I don't ever plan on getting divorced. Not that I, for some people that honestly is a healthy choice given whatever their situation was. Yeah, for me, obviously I'm very grateful and very lucky with who I got married to and where we're at.

Jeff Corrigan: 34:36

Yeah, I feel the same way. Not my wife, like, all right. We can go there from here. This is awesome. So I think now to let's finish off the episode here and say where, so coming out May 9th, which this episode is airing just a few days after that. So if you, where can they go get

Benjamin Hardy: 34:53

the book? Wherever people buy books. I think most people these days buy books on Amazon. Obviously you can go to the store. The audiobook is definitely suggested. There's about three hours of bonus interviews between me and Dan Sullivan, where we just deep dive the concepts. So if we're an audiobook person, obviously scope it out on Audible or just grab the Kindle or the hard cover, whatever. Whatever you prefer, but if you do get the book, anyone who's listening to this, read the introduction in the first 24 hours, and if it doesn't blow you away, then throw the book away. Seriously. If you, if it's not if after the introduction, you're not absorbed, hooked, and ready. And you've already had like massive paradigm shifts, then just let it all go. Like seriously, just let it go. Don't waste your time.

Jeff Corrigan: 35:32

And I'll say, as someone who's read, at least I've read half it. I haven't finished it yet, but I've read part of it cuz Ben was nice enough to get it to us early. But is, are you talking about Michael Angello? Is that the,

Benjamin Hardy: 35:42

the intro? Yeah, I was just talking about the intro as a whole.

Jeff Corrigan: 35:44

Yeah. But yeah, so it's very good and it's very intriguing because I've never in my life thought about 10 x and the way that is presented here, and it really gives it a new perspective. And it really makes it easier. It make, it was like, oh, okay, like I can do this. Doesn't the process is gonna be easy, like you said earlier, right? Everything takes effort,

Benjamin Hardy: 36:03

lot simpler. It's a focus on quality over quantity. You gotta simplify to go 10 x and then you gotta get 10 times better prior to going 10 times bigger. If that's the goal you want to have. But also every time you do it, every time you go through this 10 x process, you do have more freedom. You, you are freer to choose than your former self was. Dan has his whole four freedoms idea of freedom, of time, money, relationship, and purpose. Every time you go through this process, you do have more freedom of time to put your time towards higher value things, more freedom of money. That like your money, you can make money in desired ways. Freedom of relationship. You've got more options and opportunities versus your past self and purpose. You have the choice of pursuing a purpose that's extremely meaningful that maybe your former self could never even conceive of. You now have the freedom to go for this thing that you believe is very valuable to yourself and to the world. So I think it every time you do it you have more leverage, you've got more freedom to, to do it again if you choose.

Sheldon Mills: 37:01

The next thing is, You're becoming someone who it builds you to the point where you have more options, more freedom, because you are more capable.

Benjamin Hardy: 37:15

You're more capable. You're also more your best self. Like every time you go 10 x you're stripping away that 80% and you're becoming a lot more honest with yourself and therefore yes, you're more capable, you have more skills because you actually focused and developed quality. You developed depth. You actually went into that 20%. You built skills, right? You actually have perspectives and skills because you focused, but you're also. You stripped away those layers. It's kinda like stripping away the layers of the onion. I see your 10 x feature self. As the David, using Michelangelo as an example, he shaped, he created the whole massive 17 foot David and the Pope asked him, how'd you do it? And he said, I took away everything that was not David. And so I view your 10 x feature self as the David and you strip away the 80%, which is your past self. Which no longer resonates with who you are to become. And so every time you strip that away and you choose freedom over security, you're also choosing intrinsic motivation over extrinsic motivation. You're choosing your future self over your current self. And the more and more you do that, the more confidence you have to live according to what you believe is best, according to what you truly, deeply want at the internal level. And you stop letting external factors, other people, competition, fears of failure, you stop letting all of those things be factors. And you just trust yourself more. And so I think it does become easier because you're a lot more in tune with yourself, in tune with what you want, and you're willing to do it irrespective of the likelihood of success or irrespective of your current situations, whether other people around you think it's pro probable or practical. And you just you're a lot more connected to yourself. You've peeled away the layers, and then you go through this process again and again. Yeah.

Jeff Corrigan: 38:46

Yeah. It's like a constant refining, very cool.

Benjamin Hardy: 38:48

I think so. Yeah. And I know that you guys are part of obviously the latter day Saint Church and I've been going back through the book, rough Stone. Rolling. And I've read that probably three or four times and I absolutely love it, but I just love that idea of Joseph Smith being a rough stone rolling down a hill and just bought, and I like every 10 x is like you're stripping away the yeah. The the rough components and you're becoming a more polished shaft, right? So you're stripping away the rough components in becoming more and more refined every time you go up.

Jeff Corrigan: 39:16

Yeah. I really like that example. That's cool.

Benjamin Hardy: 39:20

Who wrote that one again? Richard Richardson. Bushman? Yeah. Bushman. Okay. Bushman, that's right. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. Classic. It is,

Jeff Corrigan: 39:29

it's very good. As always, thank you for joining us. It's been an amazing few minutes here. Hopefully

Benjamin Hardy: 39:33

it was useful. Enjoy. Yes, it will be. Look forward to finishing the book.

Jeff Corrigan: 39:38

Thank you so much for listening. That was amazing. Thank you, Ben, for joining us. As always, thanks for the conversation. We've become pretty good friends over the years, right, Sheldon? Yeah. Yeah. It's been fun. It's been a good mentor to us sharing his journey with us and he's kind of a few steps ahead of us in his journey, so it's nice to see where he's going and we can hopefully emulate some of that. Yeah, he has

Sheldon Mills: 40:00

big some of that plans success. His, his 10 x that, I mean, this was off the record that he was sharing some stuff with us, like hints his 10 x is big. You'll see big things from him in the future, I think.

Jeff Corrigan: 40:09

Oh, you absolutely will. I was really excited to hear about it. Obviously not something we can share, but it's , a path of exponential growth and success. So very fun to have him on the show. And honestly, for the first time ever, I felt like 10 X really makes sense to me., In the previous world, and I think Sheldon and I have shared this thought in the past where it's like 10 x is just grind 10 times harder and , post every day and honestly there comes a time and Sheldon and I had a conversation a few minutes ago where you just can't do more. Yeah. Right. And if someone asks you to do more, you're just like, yeah, yeah, I can't do more. Right. But where we're, I gotta spend more time on this. Yep. And especially at the sacrifice of the things that matter most, and I think in our conversation that you guys heard today talking about, Hey, think 10 years in advance. What's, what's gonna matter in 10 years? And start using that as a filter to create a greater life of freedom and a greater life of purpose and fulfillment because you're focused on the things that really do matter to you and are at the core of your values and principles. Thanks for

Sheldon Mills: 41:09

listening.

Jeff Corrigan: 41:10

Yeah. If you guys haven't jumped on our Magic Monday newsletter, go do it. It's pretty fun. Comes out every Monday. Give you a little magic. It's a really short

Sheldon Mills: 41:18

read.

Jeff Corrigan: 41:19

Yeah, I think you'll love it. Go check it out. So thanks again for listening, and it's time to start living your best life.