Weanlings, Handling & Age-Appropriate Training, Part V

This next podcast is dedicated to weanlings, handling, development and training. My last podcast on this topic was recorded March 8, 2023. I’ve included below all three podcasts dedicated to this subject. This one will be part four.

While I’ve talked about raising weanlings, I haven’t spent as much time on this subject and I sure have gotten a ton of emails and questions about it over the years. 

So, it’s time to dive in and talk about the research, stats, natural family dynamic of wild horses, domesticated dams and weanlings, common sense and most of all, what I’ve learned along the way that I believe is best practices for weanlings – what’s in their best interest.

Starting Young Horses, Part I How & When (Developing Good Habits) https://www.buzzsprout.com/815860/episodes/5349703 

Starting Young Horses, Part II: How to Begin Your Horse's Education & How to Problem-solve https://www.buzzsprout.com/815860/episodes/5370628 

Young Horse Development & Age-Appropriate Training, Part III
 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/young-horse-development-age-appropriate-training/id1504085225?i=1000603347868 


I'd like to give a special thanks to Elisabeth  for allowing me to share her journey raising Frigga, her baby Fjord, with all of you. Please click here to watch her amazing relationship and imprinting of Frigga https://www.youtube.com/@lizzyshorses.

“You have to grow from the inside out. None can teach you, none can make you spiritual. There is no other teacher but your own soul.” - Swami Vivekananda

May you always be one with your horse,
 Caroline

Transcript

Caroline Beste (1m 4s):
You are listening to Everything Horses & More! Podcast with me, your host, Caroline Beste. I'm the founder of my Tao of Horsemanship method, a pioneer in horse training and development, and a true advocate of the horse. I bring an intuitive and educated eye along with an experienced and intelligent perspective to understanding both horse and human nature and behavior. My experience in skill sets are the cornerstone to my worldwide success in training methodology. My experience with horses as intelligent sentient beings is what inspired me to create my highly acclaimed and proven training method. consensual partnership training for Horses and humans.

Caroline Beste (1m 44s):
A model I pioneered in 2008. Consensual Partnership training provides a comprehensive and impressive curriculum teaching horse owners how to fully develop their horses using a holistic, empathetic, and natural process. My training system teaches you how to achieve true partnership with horses and without the use of pain, excessive pressure, dominance, force or coercion, In. Addition to being a world class trainer for both horses and people. I'm an artist, author, entrepreneur, Speaker radio show host, licensed working equitation trainer and riding foundation specialist. I offer one of the largest and most comprehensive online educational platforms, the do of horsemanship, where I host a variety of courses produced and personally taught by me and my amazing school masters.

Caroline Beste (2m 36s):
in addition to sharing what I know in my in person training and online courses, I invite special guests and students each month to my radio show, Everything, Horses, and More podcast. This platform allows us to engage with all of you and share our very personal and transformational journey with horses. I invite you to listen in and hope you find something that helps inspire you to reach your personal goals and aspirations with your horse. Thank you. And may you always be one with horses.

Caroline Beste (3m 27s):
Welcome back everyone. To Everything Horses and more you know who I am, your host, Caroline, best of the Dow Horsemanship, and you know who my lovely co-host is. Lydia Primavera. Hi Lydia. Welcome back. Bye. I slipped in a quick podcast with little Sarah last week, only because Sarah can't do, she's in school, she can't do live Podcasts. So we, we did one after school about lunging, so that's the latest one that's up there. And just slip that in for her, her thesis project. And today, this is part four of a continued series about raising, developing, training, Young, Horses, and specifically age Appropriate training.

Caroline Beste (4m 21s):
For those of you that'll be joining this podcast, whether it's on YouTube live or in the podcast directories, I started this conversation, this series back in, oh my gosh, three years ago, 2020. And so I have two part one and part two podcast back in 2020 that you can find in, you know, the directories ev under Everything Horses & More. And Starting Young, Horses training, Young horses age appropriate training. And then last month I did part three where I dived in a little bit deeper, articulated myself a little bit more.

Caroline Beste (5m 1s):
And plus, over the years I've been getting emails like, you know, continue to get stuff all the time and comments and questions. So I was able to, to give a little bit more information, more specifics in part three. And then today, part four is specifically gonna be about Weanlings and baby horses and imprinting. So Lydia's gonna have some great stuff to add on that with her experience. Imprinting falcons and goats mammals. Birds are not mammals. Birds. Birds and mammal, right? No feathers.

Caroline Beste (5m 41s):
Feathers. Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah. Yeah. The, but anyway, sorry I'm a little foggy this morning. I'm just a little tired. Yeah, so one of the cool things about this podcast too is we're gonna gonna have an opportunity, or at least I'll be talking to or about one of my students met and she's gonna join us. Hi Becky. Thanks. Mets gonna join us at some point, but I am gonna be talking about her experience recently. I think Little Fria, her Icelandic Philly was born sometime last year and she's been posting, you know, daily, weekly videos on, you know, imprinting, Fria and the mother and the Herd.

Caroline Beste (6m 35s):
And you all can find MEE's story with Fria, f r i g g a on youtube.com/the at symbol lizzy's Horses, L I Z Z Y S, Horses. So that's youtube.com/at lizzie's Horses. And they've been documenting, you know, raising this baby and just the whole organic natural process. And, and it's really important, and I'll talk a little bit more about that as we dive into Weanlings.

Caroline Beste (7m 18s):
I think for me, as a professional, you know, in a teacher, I wanna try and and simplify a lot of stuff cuz there's a lot of dogma out there. There's a lot of information, there's a lot of different ways in which professionals are, are, you know, Handling, Weanlings or advising. Now I have a ton, I think I've printed out eight pages. Lydia has it too, you know, of all the, basically the case studies that I've researched on, on the different talking points that, that do come up. And I think people that are, you know, whether you're a breeder or a lot of my students, they'll, they'll, they'll get the mom and the mom will have a baby.

Caroline Beste (7m 59s):
What do I do with the baby? You know, I've been told to do this X, Y, and z. And I think when you're in that situation, for starters, if you have the damn, the mama horse and she's given birth and, and it's your baby now, so you've got the mom and the baby. This is what's so great about MEE's story and the availability of these YouTube videos because I can't give you a better, oh my gosh, case study or documentary than Meite, you know, is giving all of us on, on how to lovingly, gently, organically, naturally, you know, imprint a young, a young full, whether it's a cult or affiliates, it's a full, just generalizes it.

Caroline Beste (8m 46s):
So take a look at that. I haven't had the opportunity to raise a baby. However, I've had a lot of Wayne lanes that I have raised and one of the, there's a couple of of points or a couple of issues that that happens with most ween lanes. And, and that's where I'm gonna bring in some of these case studies is, and I've had these issues myself. And honestly I think every, every student I've had that's had a wean lane under the age of one is a Wayne Lane has had these similar issues. And some of them are, you know, buddy sour, the baby is, you know, doesn't wanna be alone. And that is natural. And we're gonna talk about how to remedy that.

Caroline Beste (9m 27s):
So a lot of us get these 5, 6, 7, 8 month olds and the reason why they're weaned so young, and I say so young, it's normal practice to wean a baby from its mom around the age of five or six months. And that to me is a lot of dogma and it's inappropriate and it's a shame. And we got caught up in this normalizing this basically due to breeding practices because Horses are expensive, you know, and they wanna, they wanna take these babies away as soon as possible because they're gonna breed the mother again or they're gonna be selling the baby and it's wrong.

Caroline Beste (10m 8s):
So the one thing I wanna get straight with everyone is, if you've studied wild Horses like I have, and even healthy domesticated herds and environments where there's several, at least three brood mares and, and FOLs, you know, they will naturally wean themselves within a year or so. Babies will naturally, they'll only get so much nutrients from their mom's milk the first few months. And it's the most important. And you know, that's why if you, if you get an orphan full, oh my gosh, it can be really scary because right away, as soon as that, that baby full starts to, to suckle, you know, the moment it's born within hours, it needs to get up and it needs to suckle and it needs to suckle for many reasons.

Caroline Beste (10m 56s):
The most fascinating is the way, and I'm not gonna say this correctly, the scientific terminology for it, but you can look it up. The, for me, the most fascinating aspect of why a, a baby fall has to suck immediately. And, and, and if it loses its dam, it can lose a lot of its nervous system. It's neurological function. And so there's so many pieces that happen through the motor skills that basically stimulate the nervous system, that stimulates the cognitive and the neurological aspects of these babies. So it's not just the nutrients that are so important. And that's number one, not to mention number two, it's a bonding.

Caroline Beste (11m 37s):
It's all about bonding and forming these, these really deep bonds with their mother is so important, like it is for us. Like it is for most mammals, highly intelligent or socially intelligent, you know, emotionally intelligent species need that level of connection. Again, the science behind all of that is it, it's part of the nervous system, it's part of how it is hardwired and connected to the brain. Cognitive development relies even for human babies. There's tons of research on it. Cognitive development can be stunted in orphan human babies if, if they're not, if they don't get their bonding.

Caroline Beste (12m 21s):
So bonding is really important. And the first way that a baby horse bonds is starting to suckle. And then of course you're hoping that the mother is affectionate, you know, not just licking off the placenta and and cleaning the baby and stimulating the baby that way, but you hope that the mother has really good bonding skills, which is innate. But again, this is the problem that most people have is so much of this has been normalized, meaning we don't get to see a healthy, you know, wild herd of Horses and study them or healthy domesticated herd of Horses and study them. We just see we're, we only know what we experience. And most of our domesticated Horses are so unhealthy, you know, emotionally unbalanced and socially crippled.

Caroline Beste (13m 8s):
And so my little blue, when he came to me as a we lane at eight months old, that was your perfect example. My, my blue who's five now, his mother was a, a nut job. It's not her fault. I'm not trying to criticize, I don't mean to criticize her and judge her, and I don't mean that with any animosity towards the mayor, but she was a nut job, you guys, she was a brood mayor for the, for racing thoroughbred bloodlines for whatever reason, you know, she, she had all sorts of displaced behaviors and tons of anxiety, which she transferred to blue. And not only did she transfer a lot of those anxi anxieties to blue cuz the babies learn from their mothers period, just like we do.

Caroline Beste (13m 52s):
Not the father, the babies are imprinted by their mothers. And, and so that's another thing we have to really take into consideration. So he became a, he has allergies, doesn't he? What hon he has he has allergies too, doesn't he? Yes. So he became, which he's outgrowing that he be, yeah, he became, he was a nervous wreck, anxious diarrhea, you know, cribbing cuz of his mom. And the worst part about it is his mother did not socialize him. So she, she was with a group, there were three brood mares, three dams with their foes. And she would not only did she not touch him and groom him, she was not affectionate with him.

Caroline Beste (14m 36s):
He did suckle, but that was it. She wouldn't allow him to play with any of the babies or be around the other brood mares. And so he, he was, you know, I can't even imagine the level of, of anxiety here. His mother is constantly running up and down the, the fence, slime, you know, just nuts, just anxious. Not just buddy sour cuz she's got other, you know, Horses with her. But she's, she can't be self-regulated. So think about that. Her nervous system is fried and he's learning from his mother. And so, you know, all of that was taken into consideration when he came here. And that's why he came here to see if I could fix him so his previous owner could sell him.

Caroline Beste (15m 17s):
I ended up getting him, but that is one of the first things I did is I'm like, okay, I've got a really healthy herd of Horses, you know, the, especially my geldings. So I stuck him with Smokey. He was still alive at the time and you know, blue had food, aggression, horrible food, aggression, you know, very possessive and protective of his food. I don't know if he learned that from his mother. I didn't ask, maybe I did, I don't remember. But he was underweight, you know, he was a bloated baby, he was a warmy baby, which is normal for Weanlings. It's normal for them to eat manure cuz they're always trying to get the, the natural bacteria, you know, for their gut.

Caroline Beste (15m 60s):
So being warmy is normal, being, having a lot of diarrhea, unfortunately is normal. So he had to, you know, he had to go on the, the big dewormer, I can't remember the name of that right now. And it was just a mess. So Smokey helped him a lot. And of course he was constantly around a herd of Horses that was really calm and older and very sweet with him and taught him the things that his mother wouldn't teach him, such as socialization and all the things that come with socialization. They're so important to babies. And I'm bringing this experience up because again, like most of us, me included, we buy these babies or we rescue these babies or we inherit these babies.

Caroline Beste (16m 44s):
What do we do with these babies? And if we don't do the things I'm talking about, this is the beginning of, of, of mayhem for you. And this horse, this horse doesn't know how, if the horse doesn't know how to socialize, if the horse has all these anxieties, it feels like it doesn't fit in or belong and it doesn't, can't bond. You know, blue had all of these issues. He couldn't bond. He, he became extremely attached to Smokey and Lovey, which he still is very attached to, which is fine. He's getting better. Like I would not separate him from Lovey until recently. He's five, he's five as of March of this year. I would not separate him until the last this year really.

Caroline Beste (17m 26s):
I started putting him out with the boys. Now he's, he's now he is completely separated as of, you know, few weeks ago, lovey goes out for a few hours a day with, with everybody. The mares go out. But then Sundance and Lovey are in their own pasture and wing and, and stalls because they eat differently. They get fed all the time. And the boys don't need that. And blues out with the other, the other, there's four, four of them. So he didn't, you know, all of this creates anxiety and it's really important to educate ourselves. And that's what I'm hoping to do with this podcast. Like, what do these Young Horses need? You know what? And if you can't give them another horse that's healthy that they can learn from cuz they do learn from each other, then what can you do?

Caroline Beste (18m 13s):
And you know, again, what's what's critical that these baby, you gotta know that the babies are gonna come with worms. 99% of 'em, they come with ulcers, you know, in the 90 percentile. And a lot of it's food oriented ulcers are food oriented or caused by food as well as stress. And being weaned is one of the big issues. And so how do we help these babies regulate and get back into, you know, their natural instincts of bonding and socializing and feeling safe and comfortable. So I also wanna bring up, so I've got some topic, topic talking points here for just basic ween Weanlings practices or ween leans.

Caroline Beste (19m 3s):
So foles learn everything from their dams, their moms and their herd environment. Good, bad in the ugly, including what to fear. Natural habituation, which is what I just discussed with blue and his mom pecking order. Pecking order only exists in Young Horses. It does not exist in older Horses. That's another big myth. And, and dog my wanna, I wanna put out there, it, I'm not saying that I have not met, cuz I have met quite a few older Horses that definitely were in a pecking order, what's the word I wanna say, challenge with their human.

Caroline Beste (19m 48s):
And that's a shame because that just tells me that this older horse never learned to be socialized or never understood socialization. And it also tells me that the human is not where they need to be to establish hierarchy or to establish, which to me is a level of leadership or establish a level of partnership. And both go hand in hand. You know, you're, I'm not here to teach you to be a leader all the time with your horse or a partner all the time with your horse. It's, it's both. You gotta figure out when you need to be both. And it can switch like a, a like a, a flip of a switch. It can change instantaneously. Yes.

Lydia P. (20m 26s):
I wanna bring up one thing right now, and that is for everybody to think about. There's no better teacher than a mother horse to a horse like humans don't teach Horses how to be Horses. And humans don't teach dogs how to be dogs and humans don't teach falcons how to be falcons like, or I can't teach how to be a goat, right? But I need that help. I don't, yeah, I to do this on my own. I really need that help

Caroline Beste (20m 59s):
Because we really need why love that. Yeah.

Lydia P. (21m 3s):
Yeah. I don't why for one it's

Caroline Beste (21m 6s):
Also we're talking about intelligent species. Excellent point. Lydia, excellent intelligent species. So Horses are intelligent. We know falcons are intelligent, dogs are intelligent. They're gonna pick up the mannerisms and expressions of, of their human. And so, you know, the, I talk about this in, in previous Podcasts, look at the, the oldest history that we have of the horse. We have lots of history with the cave paintings, but the point I'm making is the oldest history that we have of the horse living with humans as a family member is in two specific breeds. One is a gypsy banner, which started in I think Ireland, not Scotland, I think it's Ireland.

Caroline Beste (21m 48s):
And the other is the Arabian horse. So these Horses were family members for all the reasons that you can think of. And, and to me that is one of the reasons why Arabian and I've had plenty of Arabs are so frick and smart, is because when you look at the bloodlines, especially the bloodlines, and I had, I had abi great-granddaughter, Gracie in Egyptian Arabian that I ended up selling to one of my students years ago because I couldn't bring four Horses to Florida. But I raised Gracie from a baby and sold her what I think she was five at the time. The point I'm making is the intelligence, is it, think about this, their living generation after generation, they, the Horses and their offspring and their family unit are living with humans.

Caroline Beste (22m 35s):
They are gonna pick up like nobody's business. They're gonna learn. I mean this is, this is just science, you know, and research from primates and monkeys, you know, how much they pick up with sign language and learning mannerisms and, and Horses are so intelligent, especially socially and emotionally. So that's a great point that Lydia brings up. If you're gonna be raising this baby, there's, you know, you're not a horse, but you do need to teach it some of the intrinsic things that it's, that it may not have learned from its mother because it was taken away so soon. And you don't always know it's mother. You don't always know. Like, look at blue, look at what if, what if his former owner had given blue, just said, somebody take blue.

Caroline Beste (23m 20s):
I just can't handle it. Take blue. And you don't realize, you see this cute little thoroughbred baby and you're, you take him and he's a mess and you're like, what the heck? Where did this come from? You'd have no idea that it came from his mother. And both his, his horse mom and his human mom created a lot of stress too. Unbeknownst to his human mom, she didn't mean to create the stress, but her lack of education and, and doing all the wrong things that other people were telling her, she contributed to blue being even more anxious and more worried and distrustful with people. So, you know, bonding is critical with these babies. They need a lot of time.

Caroline Beste (23m 60s):
And if you're the only thing this baby has, you can't just leave it alone by itself. You know, get it a goat, get it a donkey. It needs something that it some other animal, not just a dog or a cat that it can, it can form a herd with and, and socialize and, and hopefully at least with a donkey, maybe even gr you know, pick up the grooming, which is huge for bonding. One of the points I wanna make too, and I do this with all of my Horses and their adults, is I groom with my hands and my fingernails and you know, yeah I have grooming tools, absolutely. But, but I prefer to really get in there and rub them, feel them and massage them and groom them with my fingernails, especially in the areas that I know are gonna stimulate the most bonding connection and response.

Caroline Beste (24m 56s):
And that's always around the eighth chakra, the brachi chakra, which is in all mammals, the brachi chakra for relationship. It's, it's purpose is connecting in in deep relationship and bonds is the shoulder area, the wither area above the shoulder. So it can be your cat and here's how your cats love it back here. Your dogs love it back here and your Horses around the wither area. But it's a huge trust issue too. How many cats have you rescued dogs or Horses that didn't trust you and didn't want you touching them for a horse that's in their blind zone? And same for a dog or a cat. They have to turn their head to, to, to see your hand back there in their blind spot blind.

Caroline Beste (25m 36s):
And so if you have a cat or a dog or a horse that, that doesn't want you touching them there, you know, you've gotta earn that trust and, but it's really huge, you know, finding where your horse, your little baby likes to be scratched. And so this is another thing that is real and a lot of people don't talk about this as a professional. I do and I do talk about it a lot, is two things you guys, if you can't find an a scratchy or an itchy spot on your horse, they have trust issues. Bottom line, if you can't touch your horse's muzzle or kiss them or blow in their nose, they have trust issues, intimacy issues, bonding issues.

Caroline Beste (26m 21s):
Bottom line in the third thing, if you can't put your hand under their Tao and lift their Tao easily and scratch under their Tao and all around their anus, they have trust issues, intimacy issues and bonding issues. And so one of the things when I'm assessing a new horse and I get to a point where I have permission to come into their space and touch them, these are the things I'm looking for. Can I blow in your nose? Can I touch your face? Number one, can I get in your blind spot? Can I put my arm and my hand over your withers and your back and can I move to your first chakra?

Caroline Beste (27m 1s):
Your, the base of your spine, which is your Tao? And do they clamp it shut? So as I always say, a tight Tao is a tight mind, a horse does not trust you. And in the work that I teach and and my students know this cuz a lot of you are on this live podcast right now, you know, all of a sudden you're doing this work, especially working with energy and the chakras and developing this level of intimacy and connection and your horse starts giving you their butt. Like all of a sudden they're throwing their first chakra, you know, on you or slamming you with their hips, you know, oh, can you rob and can you get down here and under my utters or my sheath? And all of a sudden you're scared cuz you went from a horse not trusting you and working on all this, you know, developing this level of relationship and trust to them starting to offer those, those very intimate areas.

Caroline Beste (27m 55s):
So that's just something to keep in mind. So baby horses, if the baby horses open and feel safe, it's gonna allow you to touch it anywhere naturally and scratch it and you'll see them just go nuts with that. You know, they'll be throwing their body all over you. A lot of people, a lot of my students that have Young, Horses get, get really scared of all of this cuz they're told, don't let the horse in your space, don't let them hold on for one second, don't let 'em crowd you. That's disrespectful. And it's sick. It's absolutely sickening when I hear this because these Young Horses needed and if, and you are blessed, blessed if your young horse at any age or older horse throws themself at you and is open.

Caroline Beste (28m 41s):
Oh my god, yes. Lydia.

Lydia P. (28m 44s):
So I had, I was raising alpine goats breeding and raising alpine goats for a while. And the same thing I realized happened when I was there to deliver those goats, the babies, if I Oh yeah. Instantly held them on the ground. As soon as mom dropped a baby, I help start cleaning it up. And it knows me in that first four seconds. Well, there's a couple babies I couldn't get to in that first four seconds and months later it was completely two different animals. Like the one that I had groomed and helped clean up with mama and to introduce the nipple was really bonded to me.

Lydia P. (29m 29s):
And the other one I had to spend a lot more time getting to know later. Like yeah. And I let my, I let my alpine moms raise my goats cuz I wanted them to be goats packs. Yep. So I really wanted them to have both experiences and, and if I didn't introduce that particular baby that I didn't bond with right away to children and infant, every size of human being, it still might have issues with everybody else later. And after I sold my two girls, she now cannot get those two girls because I raised them by myself with their moms.

Lydia P. (30m 12s):
She can't get those girls to accept her children. They headbutt her children. So yeah, so deep, I wanna say it starts the minute they hit the ground. That was my point here. That, okay, I'm done.

Caroline Beste (30m 25s):
Yep. Yeah, no, and, and you and I talked briefly about this the other day. Now I've, I've raised a lot of kittens and, and that's why we handle puppies, especially, especially right away in kittens. I've seen that with kittens, if you don't handle them right away, especially if, if, let's say the mom's feral, but the, but the mom gives birth and the kittens don't know any different. If you can get to those kittens, you can, you can pretty much, what's the word I wanna say, not just socialize them, but imprint them. But I, it's still really tough because they, they learn so much from their mother. So even in that environment. But Horses, like I said, I've not bred Horses.

Caroline Beste (31m 6s):
I have not ever had a baby, a mama, a damn give birth and, and had the baby. I've only, only either adopted or bought FOLs and I, and the research that I've done and in the, the, you know, little videos I've seen here and there, it, I'm not sure what that is. You know, like, like I've just read, if the mother is apprehensive of people, then the baby for the most part, not always the baby is gonna be apprehensive. It's gonna learn just about everything from the mom. But I don't know if it's, if that's the same, like you said with goats, with baby horses that if you're not there when the baby drops and touching the baby and helping the mom with the baby, I don't really think, I haven't read anything or seen

Lydia P. (31m 52s):
Anything I'm saying. I think it helps if you could be there and you can help. Oh, definitely. They get that smell. I get the placenta all over me. They're licking my coat. Yes.

Caroline Beste (32m 1s):
Makes sense. Makes total sense,

Lydia P. (32m 4s):
Ivan. It makes

Caroline Beste (32m 5s):
Sense.

Lydia P. (32m 6s):
Logical from the beginning. Yeah,

Caroline Beste (32m 8s):
That's logical. Unfortunately so many of us can't, you know, we don't have access to imprinting the baby when it's born. We just end up getting, you know, the baby and, and whatever it comes with, whatever issues comes with. But yeah, just getting back to some basic practices, that is an excellent point. Just something to definitely think about. And you know, like I said, I get really irritated. It really bothers me because so many professionals out there with Young Horses are telling you not to touch them. You know, not to, you know, and they're babies or babies. I mean, that's why pecking order is so important.

Caroline Beste (32m 48s):
Now, the difference between Phillies and Colt Philly being a baby, a full a baby girl and a cult being a baby boy is, it's hardwired in Colts with their testosterone to, to play rough and to play fight like stallion to teach them how. Now that's a real big deal with cults. Okay, pecking oders huge because that's gonna set them up for success as stallions with their own herds. You won't see Phillies play like that. They'll run and they'll jump, but they're girls, they're softer, they're more into grooming and socializing. Now you'll see geldings that'll groom like crazy too. But remember stallions they've got, stallions are stallions.

Caroline Beste (33m 31s):
It's a little bit different. And so it's just really important, you know, let's get back to, cuz this is like the number one problem that I've received from so many people over the years is I have this weanling or this yearling and it's, it doesn't respect space Caroline, and yet, yet, I wanna love on it. And, and so the, one of the most important things that, that a dam it's mom in a healthy herd will do is teach these types of behaviors. What's accepted behavior is what I call it or what's not accepted. And it's really important to socialized species like Horses, that you have discipline and you have social order in social management, it's absolutely necessary to their survival.

Caroline Beste (34m 21s):
Because the common sense of it is, if you're a wild band of Horses and there's, there's too much crazy displaced anxieties, which there aren't or fighting other than stallions, it takes away, it's a distraction. And it takes away from their ability to hone into their environment and pay attention to real threats and predators. I mean, that's just the common sense of it. You, you will see every wild herd is quiet minus the stallions fighting. That's it. Bottom line, they're, they're quiet because they're passive by nature. They all wanna get along. They're trying conserve their energy, you know, so you're not gonna see all this craziness.

Caroline Beste (35m 4s):
And it's hard for people to, to, we've normalized it because our domesticated Horses are such head cases, you know, we've normalized some of these behaviors. It is just mind boggling to me. And, and we can change it, you know, we can change it. That's the key. And so you want your baby to learn how to respect your space, that is for sure. But you want them in your space. That's part of the bonding as a big deal. So you've gotta learn how to appropriately teach them to be mindful of you that they can't rear up on you and play with you. That play has to be different between the two of you because play is important, but it has to be different.

Caroline Beste (35m 49s):
When Blue first came here, I had one of those big balls, I have had a bunch of different sizes, but I had one of those big horse balls. And, and he went after it right away, went after the Jolly Balls. He went after the, the, the smaller kind of like a yoga ball that we had outside. And he went after the big ball and, excuse me, he blew the big balls. He just kept popping 'em. It was just, he didn't have anybody to play with. So I was, and what can I do Mason? And I, my, my stepson and I, I taught Mason how to play with him as a baby, but be really safe because the babies are gonna kick out. You know, don't get next to the hi, hi den. If he's gonna learn how to chase you, make sure you have trees so that you can hide behind a tree.

Caroline Beste (36m 32s):
Get around a tree to protect you because it's a baby. But most importantly, before we started to play with blue, blue had to learn how to respect our space. That was number one. And so when the hands came up, or you know, your energy came up blue understood that was go the other way or stop, you know, do not plow through me, which is normal for babies and it's gonna, it's like every year up until three or four, they're gonna keep testing those boundaries just like kids do. And it's not pecking order at that, at that point, pecking order, you know, in a natural herd environment for Young, Horses only exists as Weanlings, okay? They figure it out by the time they're yearlings.

Caroline Beste (37m 14s):
But we normalize it. Oh, he keeps testing me, he keeps, you know, it's a pecking order and, and yeah, he's gonna test you because that's what teenagers do. Humans, puppies, you know, Horses, they do test you. So you've gotta, you know, number one thing is teach these Horses to respect your space and teach them how to be mindful when they come into your space, which is asking a question. And you can teach this very easily and quickly with these young Weanlings. So we started, so as I was saying, for the baby, since Blue didn't have any Young Horses here, he had all these older Horses, you know, what can I give him to? Because he was very playful and very mouthy and he was a boy.

Caroline Beste (37m 56s):
He learned right away that he, he could not, you know, rear up in a and and go after and be real demonstrative because the older geldings would put him in his place. Legend who was the oldest, would play with him and tease him, and Blue would bite his Tao and hold onto it and legend would squeal and then he'd spin around and then he'd back into him and give him his Tao again. So legend was amazing at, at, at playing with him, but then letting him know, hey, you bit too hard. And legend was a little crippled, so he couldn't really kick it blue, but he could butt him. But then Sundance came in and helped, or Smokey was still alive at the time.

Caroline Beste (38m 36s):
So it is just really beautiful when you have a, a healthy dynamic. And then if you don't, what can you do to, to give this baby if it's a boy, especially things to play with. And if it's a girl, she's gonna want things a little different. They all want bonding, they all want rubs, they all want scratches. They all went touch. That's so important to their cognitive and emotional development period. And again, I can't emphasize matta's videos youtube.com/the at symbol lizzie's Horses because you're gonna see it. You're gonna see it such a beautiful, gentle, natural, organic, loving way of habituating these Young Horses getting the, the young horse habituated, you know, experienced and used to, you know, anything and everything that, that could spook it or might scare its mom or the other herd members.

Caroline Beste (39m 34s):
This isn't desensitizing, this is what we call natural habituation and sensitizing actually not desensitizing. And so you get to see Fria, you know, the mom or the other Horses might have been a little more cautious with the bag and the baby's like, do I need to be cautious? But then if you just allow the baby to, to find its own courage to explore that thing and figure it out on its own, it's just beautiful. And the baby just, it had all sorts of, of obstacles that would scare Blue my horse. But this baby, this was its natural, became its natural environment. And the other Horses weren't afraid either. So that helped tremendously.

Caroline Beste (40m 17s):
So as I said earlier, foals will naturally wean themselves between one and two years. And if I was raising the mom and the baby, I would allow it to take its own course. And if it lasted longer, then I would be asking some questions like, why is there something missing nutritionally or emotionally? And a lot of my students do have moms and babies and they wanna know like, when do I start working with the mom? Well, you can continue to work with the mom. That's a great thing to do because the baby's gonna learn through association. So one particular student, the mother was afraid of a lot of things, including humans, and yet the baby wasn't.

Caroline Beste (41m 1s):
So that's, that's where it's not always, you know, the rule that sometimes these babies have more courage and confidence and they don't feed off the mom all the time. They're not insecure. And Lydia brought up blues blood to take blue to University of Florida's dermatology unit. Very expensive to get tested and, and as I say, he's allergic to air. I mean he's allergic to everything he was. So he was breaking out in hives and abscesses and oh my God is a baby. And so around the age of, I think it was a year and a half old, I'm like, okay, I've tried everything my vet said, but my vet doesn't specialize in skin disorders.

Caroline Beste (41m 45s):
So she recommended the university, university of Florida, he got tested and he got a shot. I was supposed to bring him back every year and I haven't, he's five now. So he might have went when he was two because he's, yeah, he's a lot better. So that's why you've seen a lot of his videos. His tails all rubbed down. He doesn't have a Tao anymore. It was horrible. He was just peppered with skin sores and you know, it's just allergic to everything. So right now he's eating, you know what he's eating all the things he couldn't eat before. So I don't have to be real particular about his hay, but you know, he, he, he definitely does have some allergies, but a lot of that was emotional too.

Caroline Beste (42m 35s):
And I was hoping, you know, as I started to develop him slowly and in stages each year, that some of that would start to go away. Cuz he was just so emotionally imbalanced and I've, I've also given him a lot of other types of supplements to help his Chi imbalance himself out. And it all works, you guys, I mean there's a lot to consider but allergies just like getting sick all the time. You know, you have an immune deficiency and stress, oh my gosh, this poor baby. What a handful. When you raised in a stressful environment, your immune system is gonna take a long time to fix itself. Yep. It absolutely at very good point.

Caroline Beste (43m 20s):
So again, like I said, most breeders wean the babies way too early cuz they wanna avoid financial losses. It's about the money, not the horse's welfare. And yeah, I think I covered a lot. I mean, I don't wanna get into all these case studies if anybody's interested in the eight pages that I collected, just email me personally. Caroline dow Horsemanship dot com and it's got the links and everything. I pretty much covered everything. But that the case studies are, are sometimes really a fun for a lot of people and just supports what we're talking about.

Caroline Beste (44m 2s):
And yeah, I mean mostly I'm speaking to people that, you know, either buy or adopt or rescue Wayne Lanes and you don't know what you're getting. And so if you have a young horse that again, doesn't let you touch their face or their eighth chakra or their first chakra, you know, their, their Tao, you know, they, they have trust issues. And because those of us that have had baby horses and they're healthy, they allow, they can't wait for you to touch 'em and they're rubbing all over you and throwing their bodies into you and you can do anything. I mean it's, it's a shame you can lift their feet. They have to learn how to stand, but they shouldn't learn how to stand perfect at the age of six months.

Caroline Beste (44m 47s):
It doesn't, that doesn't make any sense. It's a baby. It can only take in so much information. They're quick learners, they're like sponges but they can't, you can't drill stuff with them no more than you could a young child. And so it's really about creating good Habits through consistency, repetition and reward. Those are the three secrets to success with horses in developing really healthy Horses holistically is yes.

Lydia P. (45m 18s):
And they will never, ever forget the first time you made them afraid.

Caroline Beste (45m 25s):
Oh

Lydia P. (45m 26s):
God, they will never forget the first time that you made them afraid.

Caroline Beste (45m 31s):
Your memories are like,

Lydia P. (45m 33s):
Get your shit together. Get your shit together and figure out what makes Horses afraid. Baby's afraid. Oh

Caroline Beste (45m 40s):
Yeah. Look at my videos of blue.

Lydia P. (45m 43s):
Yeah,

Caroline Beste (45m 44s):
Look at blue, blue. Oh, out of nowhere blue became petrified of plastic bags and tarps. Well guess who we learned that from? Lovey especially. And so it took years for me and I was not, I'm not into desensitizing, I'm not into flooding him, I'm not, I wanted him to outgrow it holistically, but yeah, I mean the damage is done. We're still working on it, but he is so much better and it's as

Lydia P. (46m 12s):
So

Caroline Beste (46m 13s):
Suck. Oh my god, I had no idea.

Lydia P. (46m 15s):
You guys remember Carl fiddle story like I told you about fiddle and he needed his foot picked up cuz he had cut himself on the gate and Carl went at him like he would, one of his older Horses didn't look at fiddle, just went straight for the foot and picked it up and then for the next year and a half we could not pick up fiddle's foot without a fight. It, he didn't forget it. That's

Caroline Beste (46m 38s):
How

Lydia P. (46m 38s):
He's now five. So now we can pick up his feet. So if you wanna challenge, think about that, like it can be that settle go to pick up your horse's foot without permission or a warning and you're gonna have him afraid of that.

Caroline Beste (46m 53s):
Yep, perfect point. That's an excellent point. And that's another thing that so many people have trouble with. How do I, my young horse won't stand, my young horse won't pick up their feet. They now are afraid of the farrier. It's huge. And that's because of that exact example you gave. The farrier doesn't care, he's coming in to do his job, he expects you to do your work or he is just an ass and expects this young horse to know everything. And that puts so much pressure on you and the young horse. I mean, it comes in stages. When Blue was little and I've had him since he was eight months old, he would pick up his feet for you. He was more defensive with the hinden is so you don't hang on to the hinden and you don't put ropes around him. It just takes time for hi.

Caroline Beste (47m 34s):
It takes consistency and repetition and positive experiences that will soon replace. Now if it's an extreme case and he had his extreme case with, with the the bag and the round pen and all that videos on YouTube or in my library now, then you've gotta handle it. And, but you need to know what you're doing. But just with just, you know, so many times we try to force these young babies into doing something that an older horse is just ready and more mature to handle and they have more experience. And that's a great point, Lydia, make sure that your everything, your baby experiences is is the best experience it can be. Cuz that's what it's gonna remember. Absolutely. In a, in a young mind.

Caroline Beste (48m 15s):
It, it's harder for a young mind to comprehend and let go than an older horse. It's like you can make those mistakes with an older horse and you're like, okay, now maybe that's just a mistake, I'm gonna be afraid. But yeah, it's like, yeah, I know I've got experience with this before, but a young horse, it's so much more detrimental. That's an excellent point. Yeah, yeah, that's an excellent point. All right, well I know you, I wanna anybody Yes, Becky, Clint. Yeah. I love when our, my girls and boys will lift their legs and show me when they need me to clean their private parts.

Caroline Beste (48m 57s):
I love it. It

Lydia P. (48m 58s):
Gets so bad that you can't have their head cuz they want you to rub their belly, you know? And I'm like, no, not your head. Come here. No. Rub my

Caroline Beste (49m 5s):
Belly. I love it. And I love when our Horses feel safe enough and trust us enough to tell us, express themselves what they need and show us what they need. It doesn't happen all the time, you know, and sometimes, but when you have a baby horse, a young horse that's willingly giving you all of that information, God, you wanna keep it. But just know that if your horse doesn't offer up all of this, that there are problems. You know, these are the things I look for. Like I said, do they let me touch them? Do they have itchy spots that they want scratched? Do they really, you know, move when you, when you're scratching them, do they give, do they, you know, where are they?

Caroline Beste (49m 47s):
Because if you've never experienced this, you don't know what it should look like. So I'm trying to explain it. I mean, they should, if you've never experienced Horses grooming each other and really getting into it and moving all around each other so they can each get to each other's spots and showing each other where they want it, your horse is gonna do the same with you. And so often we're told, don't let 'em in. They're gonna step on you and yeah, they might step on your foot, push 'em off. I mean, come on, this is all part of that. Let's get in there and really groom each other. This is so important to becoming accepted as a family member and, and your horse considering you and being mindful and thoughtful and in the moment, Anna.

Caroline Beste (50m 29s):
It's just, it, it's gotta, you gotta have that. All right, Lydia, what else do you wanna add, my dear?

Lydia P. (50m 35s):
I can't, I, I'm not sure I can think of anything else.

Caroline Beste (50m 42s):
Does anybody have any questions?

Lydia P. (50m 46s):
I think, I think another thing to remember about Handling, and it's really true with birds and small mammals, so it should be with a large mammal, a goat or a horse, is that initially when they're young, how you hold them, like hug them early so they know what that feels like. Especially Horses, the neck and the head area because it's their flight zone and would focus on really manning in, in falconry we call it manning, where

Caroline Beste (51m 14s):
Entrusting,

Lydia P. (51m 15s):
You know, a wild falcon is gonna take me a month for my hand to even touch the brass. I can maybe touch the foot while they're eating and pulling meat off of a carcass, but I have to be respectful on how quickly I introduce myself, certain areas of their body. So that's the other thing that I did make a note about would be to, you know, the worst thing you can, that can happen to us is for us to get knocked in the head by a horse's head.

Caroline Beste (51m 43s):
Yes, yes. Or a foot or a paw. Because often when you start hugging, they're gonna try and hug you back. So they either hug you by putting you underneath their chin and against their chest or their leg will come wrapped around. You know, that's a great tho beautiful points. Thank you. And I, I do wanna mention training a little bit. I don't, everything should be habitual in organic with Young Horses. Nothing should be forced. Nothing should be fast. If you've got a five or six month old that, that you need, you know, obviously it's gonna have a halter on it, it should have been halter trained, but God knows what that was like.

Caroline Beste (52m 23s):
But don't expect so much. Do little things often. This is where the consistency, consistency and repetition and reward comes in. So it's, you don't wanna just spend a large amount of time, you know, several days a week because you're gonna blow their mind. You're gonna fry them. They can't comprehend all of that. And they're gonna be rambunctious. You've got to allow for this, you've gotta allow them to be a young horse. You just have to teach them how to be a young horse with you and that you can play, but you gotta play out there or you can come running and run around me. But, but you know, we've gotta keep our distance so I don't get kicked in the head by accident.

Caroline Beste (53m 4s):
And you know, leading is, is important for them to understand. And there's so many ways you can teach a young horse to lead, but it doesn't have to be forced. And it, and it, and you know, the biggest point I'm trying to make with MEE's videos is when you raise a young horse yourself and you do it correctly, you won't have any problems. I just, I can't emphasize that enough. Courses are oppositional by nature. You've gotta understand some of their instincts. That means that when you put pressure around their flight zone, their pole, their face, they're gonna push into it or away from it.

Caroline Beste (53m 45s):
That is a natural instinct for Horses. So that means if they got attacked by a predator, they're either gonna push into the predator to, to squash them, to kill them by squashing them, throwing their body down on them. How many of you have ever seen Horses, adult Horses chase dogs to crush them? This is a natural instinct until the horse gets familiar. Yeah, sometimes it's, it shouldn't be play, you know, that's just their natural instinct to, to slam that, that dog and crush them. And the other one obviously is to flee, to pull away. So you have to allow for all these things. I see so many accidents happen in so much a manhandling by feeling like when the baby pulls away from us, we've got to go after them and, and punish them or force them so they can't, you know, they're just know that they're gonna do it.

Caroline Beste (54m 35s):
You just don't want it to become a habit. So how do you, where's that feeling? Timing? Yes. Yeah.

Lydia P. (54m 40s):
And, and flight genetics say I only run so far and so fast for so long, whether it's a bird or a mammal. Yeah. I can only run for so fast for so far, for so long. So we don't really need to chase it down anyway. We just can't go two miles like the horse can. Right. So

Caroline Beste (54m 59s):
Yeah, working within

Lydia P. (55m 1s):
A closed space,

Caroline Beste (55m 3s):
I, yeah, because I've had blue, you know, I forgot and I'm sending blue through a gate and the Horses are on the other side and somebody starts to run and blue forgets, he's attached to me years ago on the lead rope and he starts taking off. So he is dragging me. I'm on my feet, you know, basically I feel like I'm moonwalking because I'm like lifted in the air because he forgot he was attached to me. So that is not that there's no punishment should happen. No, he just has to be, you have to do a better job. I had to do a better job reminding him before we got out into the open, you know, and it's gonna happen cuz he is not in an enclosed space and I'm leading him from the barn to the field. You know, that, hey, keep, remember you're on the line with me and this means you need to consider me.

Caroline Beste (55m 49s):
But he did because of that experience. And he did not get away from me. But because of that experience, he thought he could do it again. So that's where I had to nip it in the, the butt so to speak. No pun tended to say, hey, bite on the butt with the whip. No, that's not gonna be a habit. You know, one time was a mistake, but you cannot think when you know you're on this lead rope. But that was it. It was just one bite. He was like, oh, what I do wrong. Or it was a little more, now a really healthy young baby that isn't afraid of anything would, would just be like, oh, okay. But blue was such a stress, stressed out little youngster. And like I said, his human mom did some damage to him to try to get him ready.

Caroline Beste (56m 33s):
I, she ran the hell out of him in a round pen. She did all the wrong things you guys, so he had a lot of damage. But I guess I'm just trying to let you guys know that, that there's so much you can do by interacting with your young ween lane every day. You can reinforce good Habits just by the way you act. You know, between respect for space, letting them into your space, steady pressure with your fingers, you know, rhythmic pressure. Getting them used to some more natural ways like their mom, you know, would you know your own energy. If mom's gonna pin her ears and take a bite, she's given plenty of warning and that energy is there to support the action.

Caroline Beste (57m 17s):
So one of the things you don't wanna do is just go after 'em cuz you're gonna scare 'em. You know, you've gotta, you gotta think like the horse a little bit.

Lydia P. (57m 25s):
Exactly. That's what I was just gonna say, don't forget to see things the way the horse does.

Caroline Beste (57m 32s):
Yeah. Try to, and there's so much stuff on YouTube these days, you know, to, to look up and you can always contact me for a coaching call and submit a video. And I think that pretty much wraps up everything. Question from

Lydia P. (57m 50s):
The

Caroline Beste (57m 50s):
Rescue Maya three, the rescue I'm currently treating decided to have a blowout over a spray bottle and is Anne is now in trusting, unfortunately I'm trying to battle the manage the rain rotten ringworm. Well I'll answer that. But I also offer a course, a lifetime access to one of my courses called Retraining the Challenged Young Horse Blues on there. And so is one of blues buddies that was born at the same time. And there's a third horse and we go, we have a whole series on the spray bottle. I

Lydia P. (58m 28s):
Think there's YouTube video on the spray bottle as well. A little bit teaser. Yeah.

Caroline Beste (58m 34s):
So don't make anything, your young horse, older horse, it doesn't even matter. Anything they're afraid of is information. So now you have to figure out how can I change that experience for them? It's always an experience. So how can I change that experience? Let me just turn my phone off there. And so for me, there's a lot of factors considered and one of them, the first factor is you, how you approach it. So the energy of your intention, your mindset, and the energy of your heart. So relationships gotta be there as much as you can can build that bond so that the horse looks forward to your voice, your touch, your smile being with you. It's gotta be number one.

Caroline Beste (59m 14s):
Once that happens and the horse starts to respond to being with you, then you start reintroducing the scary thing. And so you'll go, Hey look at this spray bottle full of water so we don't waste this, this, this fly spray and you're gonna use a lot of it. Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah. In my mouth, like Lydia said, oh wow, here it is. It's part of me. So maybe the spray bottle just becomes nonchalantly part of your grooming box and it's just there. You're not even gonna spray them. It's there for a few days or a week or two. Then all of a sudden you're just spraying yourself down with it, spraying another horse. Cuz they learn from example and then you go, okay, it's your turn and this is where I will hold them.

Caroline Beste (59m 57s):
I'll never tie them and I will, I will move with them. So if, if they still aren't, you know like, oh curious cuz you're looking for curiosity. If you can't create that level of curiosity, or at least they don't keep their feet still cuz they trust you enough to be okay if they start moving, go with them, go with them. Don't hold them. Go with them and say, okay, I love you, I love you, but here you go. I'm just gonna start squirting you just going, I'm not gonna start at the feet, I'm not gonna squirt their face, but I'm just gonna start squirting their shoulder and their neck and I'm gonna go, it's okay. I love you and I might do this in a stall as long as I, I feel that they're not gonna run through me. Or, or, you know, it's, it's a safe space, but you're gonna keep spraying them until they stop.

Caroline Beste (1h 0m 43s):
And then you keep spraining them just a little bit longer until they relax. And if they don't relax, but stop. You, stop. Love you. I love you. I love you. Oh, I love you. Put it down. God, that's great. Let me rub you. I don't care. It takes 10 minutes until you exhale. Release, relax, horse, lick and chew. And then here we go again. So it's not desensitizing and we're not about flooding. We're, we're here to change the experience. And just because we're gonna go again doesn't mean we're gonna do as much. We might do a little bit less cuz we're looking for a really good place to stop. In My experience, it's only taken one session and it hasn't taken very long, but the horse might back up 20 feet.

Caroline Beste (1h 1m 28s):
what I don't want is that the horse feels it has to run through me. You don't want to the horse to be defensive. And so that's why it, it can be dangerous and you really need to make sure you've got a really good relationship with the horse. And unfortunately, rescue Horses have a lot of damage. Yep. Most of Horses do, period. But that's a way to go about it is just we, we bring in our own energy and intention. We add to it as I call it. We feed to the Horses anxiety, we feed into it. It's no different than your friend being really upset and you coming in and going, oh my God, I'm so sorry.

Caroline Beste (1h 2m 11s):
Okay, you wanna talk about it and you just keep retriggering it. So there's a point where you wanna be compassionate, empathetic, and understanding, but if you don't shut up or stop with that energy, then you are literally re-triggering the person or the horse. You're feeding into it, you're adding to it. So what are you bringing to this experience? How can you change this experience? And there's always the balance of love and leadership. There's always like, Hey, I am not judging you. There's never any punishment. I love you. You express yourself to a point. But if it starts to get unhealthy, you've gotta figure out when do you shut it down, when do you interrupt it, when do you redirect it?

Caroline Beste (1h 2m 56s):
So you know, there's, there's a lot to think about. You gotta be safe. You need a course to help. Yeah. Yeah. I've got the course for it. And with a ton of strategies. That's a great question though. So that's Abel. Yes. You're part of my mastery membership. And we had a coaching call while ago on the, your young Philly finding an open arena. So, and she starts running towards the open pen. Well that's where you've gotta look at a lot of my problem solving in course number three, because this is where you've gotta teach her like blue blue's. Like, oh, we just went through the gate and they started to run.

Caroline Beste (1h 3m 36s):
Well I'm running. So, so that was just a mistake on his part. I didn't know it was gonna happen. I could let go of the rope. I didn't, I spun around and then I just redirected it the second time he thought he learned that, he thought he could do that again. And sometimes you just have to wait. So I was prepared and I had the lead rope shorter with the rest of it dragging so that it could drift outta my hand a little bit. So I didn't get pulled all over the place or a rope burned. But then I had the whip ready and I bit his butt pretty hard. So he spun around. Sometimes they'll flip out over that and it'll actually escalate.

Caroline Beste (1h 4m 16s):
So what I, this is why you've gotta do a lot of the prior work, the prior preparation, prior preparation. And I think we mentioned that in our coaching call the last time. You've gotta work in a smaller space, whether it's a stall or two corners of, of a fence or an enclosed area or a round pen where you start teaching the horse to pay more attention, to be more focused, to start to be more disciplined and to respond and respect being on a lead rope. And then you're taking it out and testing it. And so if you take it out and it doesn't work at all, but it worked great in that small space, then you're still gonna do it in a small space.

Caroline Beste (1h 4m 59s):
But you're gonna, you're gonna ask for more. You're gonna be more particular. Like that's where the three second rule comes in. And it's a young horse sometimes. This is, this is just you and the young horse. I'm not saying that the horse isn't testing you. They can read you and if you're intimidated or lack confidence, they're de it's definitely going to add to that experience in, in a negative way.

Lydia P. (1h 5m 24s):
But to me, I taught my baby all those, all of the, I taught my baby most all of your lessons. And he chose the half circle for his go-to. Like when shit goes wrong, he goes to the, he goes three o'clock or nine o'clock and looks at me like, can we do the half circle? Like, you know.

Caroline Beste (1h 5m 44s):
Yes. That's, that makes him feel good. He he likes that. That is so cute. He's so smart.

Lydia P. (1h 5m 50s):
He picked his, he picked the exercise that made him feel good. Yes. And I, I let him have it. And so that's beautiful. Anything goes wrong anywhere. If it's next to a river or whatever, that's gonna be our go-to get off. Yeah. And we'll do the half circle here until you can find your breath and

Caroline Beste (1h 6m 9s):
Then self-regulate.

Lydia P. (1h 6m 10s):
Yeah. And then we'll go

Caroline Beste (1h 6m 11s):
Self-regulate. Yep. I love it. God, easy. Smart. Thank you for that. Bridget, real quick you said yes, Bridget and another student. Bridget, that's a tough question. When you board your horse with someone else and they don't handle your horse or the environment that your horse is in is creating a lot of stress because it's a stressful environment. You have to listen to your horse. And I hate to say this, but you gotta get 'em out of there. There's no withs or buts. A lot of my students board their Horses and they can't get 'em out of there. And a lot of 'em jump from facility to facility because it's that stressful. So I, the environment is so important, you guys it because they live in that environment 23, 24 hours a day versus seeing you and being with you.

Caroline Beste (1h 6m 58s):
So what you, it's gonna be so counterproductive to what you're doing because their, their nervous system is just being absolutely ravaged. So just think if they're on adrenaline all the time or they're defensive, which is adrenaline or they're anxious, which is adrenaline, that's what you don't want. Cuz then they're living in their sympathetic nervous system, which is self-preservation mode. And so if they can't relax and feel safe where they're at, and part of that is not just the environment being stressful, but the way they're being handled is stressful. It's, it's not the same. Does the person have a lot of stress that they're carrying that energy?

Caroline Beste (1h 7m 39s):
Are they Handling your horse crappy? Are they mean to your horse? Are there things going on that you don't know? You know, they could be hitting your horse one time, manhandling your horse, you know, scream. It just takes that one time of, of a bam or a bam or a knock it off and your horse is like, wait a minute, I'm not used to this. You know? And, and, and now they're gonna be totally worried all the time. Where's it coming from? When's it gonna happen next? That's that horrible reality. What, huh? It

Lydia P. (1h 8m 13s):
Can be a shiny, it can be a shiny

Caroline Beste (1h 8m 15s):
Object in the barn that they can't get used to. It can be anything that disrupts their nervous system and, and it shouldn't be. I mean that that tells me something else might be going on, but Right. You know, like I said, a horse. Yeah, you, you never know. But I I, most of the time it's usually a very stressful environment. Either the Horses are stressed, maybe it's not the, the person, maybe it's, you know, or it's the handler, but it could be somebody else in the barn. You, you just never know. I don't know how big your, but yeah, they could be spooked it. That's what Lydia's talking about. You know, Mike Horses, two outta three le Sundance and Smokey were petrified of pigs.

Caroline Beste (1h 8m 58s):
So we moved down here to Florida, we had wild boar, which they would catch scent of. And then one of the boarding facilities raised pigs to butcher legend thought they were amusing. So I was like, oh God, please legend. He would just drag me to go see them and Smokey and Sundance were dragging me the other way. And so just those kinds of things, just keep them on, you know, they can environmental smell it, they can feel it. Plus the butchering animals being butchered. Are you kidding? My Horses were like, there's been many a time we've been trail riding over the years and they obviously their senses will catch a dead animal carcass somewhere on our trail ride and they can smell it.

Caroline Beste (1h 9m 41s):
And as soon as they would plant their feet, I knew they said something was going on. Just follow what they were looking at or their ears were like radars. And sure enough, if we had to go towards that dead animal because it was on our path, most of the time I had to get off and then there was the dead carcass and yeah, that's their instincts kicking. And now that tells me that we still need more work to do though, right. That they need to trust me or, or at least trust that together we can handle that experience. And it's also experience. They need more experience knowing that that dead animal doesn't mean they're gonna die. But yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a loaded question, Bridget, and I'm, I'm sorry your baby boy.

Caroline Beste (1h 10m 27s):
You gotta get him out of that. And if you can't get him out of it right away, there's only so much you can do. Spend more time with him hand grazing him. Even if you do, you're doing the work in the big program of mine and he may be able to do the work well and get self-regulated, rhythmic and relaxed in the work. But then as soon as he is back in that environment, he's retriggered again. Or as soon as he is back in a stall or pasture or with that person, it's, it's really tough. A lot of people ask me, you know, I lease a horse, can I start your method with that horse? And, and it all depends on how, who else is leasing the horse and how, what's their energy like if it's a really beautiful, sweet, you know kind person, then it shouldn't interrupt what you're doing.

Caroline Beste (1h 11m 14s):
But if you've got somebody that's opposing who you are and what you're doing, then you've got opposing conflicting, you know, energies

Lydia P. (1h 11m 25s):
Not any different than you and I raising our dog together, but different like my husband letting Tallulah get away with something and I don't.

Caroline Beste (1h 11m 34s):
Yes. Oh yeah. That, that creates confusion And you know, Horses are followers by nature, you guys, that's another thing. It doesn't mean they wanna, they, they're always looking to to feel safe. And so if your horse can't connect with other Horses that help him feel safe, he's gonna need to connect with you. And if he can't connect with you or the other Horses and he is got this person, Handling him, think how that just messes with them cuz they don't feel safe and safety's their, their highest hierarchy of need. And it's an emotional safety. It's not just that he has to feel safe physically, it's that the physical safety emotionally helps him feel safe.

Caroline Beste (1h 12m 17s):
Alright, well I've gotta wrap this up. I've got another call at two o'clock, a zoom meeting call. Thank you. This has been great. I hope I touched on some really important stuff about babies this

Lydia P. (1h 12m 30s):
Baby season.

Caroline Beste (1h 12m 32s):
Lydia. Yeah, that's

Lydia P. (1h 12m 34s):
Good point. It's baby season. So I'm gonna end with this. Make sure that you are willing to keep the commitment to your baby that you made when you bought it. Found it or rescued it.

Caroline Beste (1h 12m 48s):
Yeah. They need you. They need somebody to rely on. Absolutely. They need that bond. They need that leadership, that mentorship until they're ready to start making their own decisions. And that's where the

Lydia P. (1h 13m 0s):
No, they're adults people. Yeah. Until they're adults.

Caroline Beste (1h 13m 4s):
Yeah. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Beautiful. Well hopefully in a couple of weeks, not hopefully, I forget which date we chose Lydia. I'm gonna be interviewing Lydia

Lydia P. (1h 13m 16s):
26.

Caroline Beste (1h 13m 17s):
26. Cool. So that'll be our next podcast. And I'm not sure what the title is yet, but Lydia's been doing a ton of cold just learning and studying and researching and I just can't wait to pick her brain and you guys are gonna find it cuz some of the stuff she's been telling me is, is so fascinating. It'll add to all of our learning about ourselves and Horses, you know, it's, it's all, you know, similar. So I'm excited. So we'll get that title out, hopefully this week. I

Lydia P. (1h 13m 52s):
Haven haven. Haven't thought of it either yet.

Caroline Beste (1h 13m 54s):
Yeah, I know. Or next week. Just so we can start. Yeah, we got a couple weeks. All right. Thank you. Thank you everyone. Enjoy. May you always be one with your horse. God bless. Huh? You know how to reach me. All right, bye. Thank you Lydia. Bye.