The University of Life
The University of Life podcast has become my personal collection of fascinating learnings from the people I meet and experiences I have as I explore life and journey deeper in to the space of business mentoring & life coaching.
The University of Life
The University of Life & Michael Murray
How do ancient wisdom and modern self-care intersect to create a life of true self-respect and fulfilment? Join me in a thought-provoking conversation with Michael, also known as Primal Law, as he shares profound insights drawn from his deep African heritage and contemporary experiences.
Learn how Michael's philosophy of self-respect, rooted in self-love and practical actions like maintaining hygiene and choosing nutritious foods, can help you reconnect with your essence and navigate the complexities of today's world.
Discover the disciplined routines of historical warriors and how these practices translate into modern self-care regimens that foster true leadership and strength.
Michael challenges the misconception that self-care is unmasculine, revealing how taking care of oneself lays the foundation for resilience and genuine empowerment.
Our discussion touches on the deceptive peace offered by harmful habits and underscores the importance of meaningful actions over empty affirmations, providing a fresh perspective on the balance between life's pleasures and healthy living.
Throughout our conversation, we delve into the intricate relationship between nature, diet, and self-care, exploring how societal expectations and historical manipulation have influenced modern identity crises.
Michael's reflections on personal and communal harmony, the interplay of dark and light energies, and the journey towards self-acceptance offer valuable insights that inspire and empower.
If ever you'd like to connect, please don't hesitate to connect via my website www.jamiewhite.com.
I am always open to feedback, reflections, guest / subject recommendations and anything else that might come up.
Thank you for listening, Jamie x
Michael, how would you define self-respect?
Speaker 2:Self-respect is self-love. It's something that you can't really force. You know. Everyone says you must have self-respect for yourself. Actually, a lot of people don't actually understand what that actually means.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I put it down to the base I'm always a primal man and self-respect is the things that only you can do for yourself, that no one else can do. So that would be washing yourself, you know well, you know, making sure that your body body, your hair is clean, your face is clean, eating the right foods. I mean, unless you're, you know you're a toddler, you're probably going to be feeding yourself, so then you choose what goes in and out of your mouth, what you drink, um, where you put your eyes. Are you watching tiktok reels all day, or you watch where you put your eyes? Are you watching TikTok reels all day? Or are you watching or looking at uplifting conversations, for example, podcasts? Are you reading uplifting material in the form of books or magazines?
Speaker 2:So self-respect is everything that the self can do for itself yeah, so if you do these things, your self-respect is likely to be solid, rather than trying to brainwash yourself into self-respect when you don't really have it. A lot of people try and do that. They try and cut the corners yeah self-respect, but then they're eating like crap I am.
Speaker 1:I'm reminded by matthew mcconaughey's award-winning speech oscar award-winning speech where he said he thanked his mum and said, mum, thank you for teaching me how to respect myself. And I remember watching that and being really personally struck. I was like, wow, you know what does self-respect mean? And I see it wholeheartedly. Similarly, that like how we show up for ourselves, how we nurture ourselves, how we care for ourselves, how we bring out the best in ourselves, is really how we respect ourselves, and I actually think my journey to that was through disrespect. I wasn't conscious of what self-respect was. I really didn't look after myself until the point that I had to, and it was at that moment that I recognized, perhaps, the difference between self-respect and a lack of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, discipline, sorry, disrespect teaches us so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the reason why the disrespect hurts hurts because deep down, you know you're supposed to respect yourself at a high level yeah, so that hurt is a lesson yeah, well, I skipped an interview.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry I skipped an introduction with you, but jimami asking michael, how, how do you introduce yourself in terms of what you do um?
Speaker 2:well, I introduced myself as Primal Law, so that's the name of my brand. I trade usually, so you know I trade crypto and stocks. I manage my own investments, so I'm pretty much a private man. I am from a very ancient bloodline in Africa and so we're known as tribal kings and we are very much in touch with the spiritual world. And you know ancient kingdoms, the kings weren't just sitting up on high thrones ordering people and telling them what to do. It was more of a case of you had to understand the birds, the bees, the plants, all types of crops and people, and then people would let you leave them because you understood all of those different areas. Yeah, if you didn't understand the crops, how are the people going to be fed? You had no idea. You know, if you don't understand the birds and the bees, then you're probably not going to understand the other minute details of how Everything's supposed to work in the cycle.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So then you'd be oblivious. How can you leave the people? So my ancestors over the last year have called me back To understand the laws of the jungle and in fact I didn't really want to learn this because I was like, no, I'm sophisticated, you know. I went to British private schools, you know from a very young age, and when they were asking me, no, come back to the jungle, you need to learn the laws of the jungle, I was like no, I don't want to do it, because we've been taught well, we've been brainwashed really into thinking that the jungle and African ways are very primitive. So we've been running away from it to be more westernized. And the truth is always at the base. So if you take, for example, everything that's primitive primitive comes from the word prime, primal, and everything that's primitive is more simple but then the simple primitiveness of nature is the base. And the base has to be God, because God is our base, so that the closer you come back to base, the closer you are to God when I'm hearing you share this, what I'm I'm getting is like the almost instinctively we as humans like to over complicate things it's natural and that actually disconnects us in some ways
Speaker 1:but the more we can simplify, the more we can allow actually life really flow. And when you're saying base, I'm hearing roots, I'm hearing foundations, I'm hearing hearing primal, like primal ways, ancestral ways, the ways that worked for thousands of years, that almost. It's seemingly only very recently that we're kind of shunning a lot of that and moving to, let's say, more complicated ways, but not necessarily recognizing that they may seem convenient in the short term but in the long term they're actually really not serving us as well as older ways did well, they're serving us, for sure, otherwise people wouldn't do it.
Speaker 2:But then life is always the challenge of the balance. You see, and if one goes completely modern and forgets tradition, you're kind of lost because you forget where you come from. But if you stay where you're from, it's very, very difficult to go somewhere. So it's always that this is delicate balance and because we are moving into a much more tech-focused world, a lot of people are getting lost, if really forgetting where they're from. Actually, most people have forgot where they're from. And you know, the base of this planet has always been the black man and we understand the planet better than anyone else, as we should. But because our history books were wiped, no one looks towards us as that base, which is totally illogical. It's like, of course the first man understands how the soil works, for sure, sure he does. For sure he understands how relationships work Because, well, he was the first one to make communities Like the most simplistic communities.
Speaker 1:Can I be a little bit pokey? Yeah, and you were like, so what you were saying there is essentially like the black man is the original man, but then as a result of that, there's a black man in the original man, but then, as a result of that, there's a black man in every white man yes, yes, everyone's one exactly yeah, I really wanted to get to that, but yes, so what we're really doing is saying, hey, everyone recognize this, this primitive part of your own self, okay, and what we know, you know.
Speaker 2:But you just have more layers on top, you know. But it's good to come back to the simplistic, because that's also what we yearn for. Sometimes life gets so much complex and the people don't want to admit that. They actually just want things simple. They want to be more sophisticated and, in the back of their mind, when they're sitting at home alone, when the Instagram is turned off, their mind's going for it. Mental problems, anguish, trying to keep up with all the sophistication that's been sold to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I. You know, in my work, in my work with people, what I find is that, generally speaking, the stress, the anxiety, the dis-ease that people are feeling comes from overcomplicating life. And the approach that I most normally take with people is how can we simplify? And I really think the genius is in simplifying and, little by little, as we take those layers of complication and distraction away from people, they start to feel again. The numbness goes and I think I see so many people thrive when they take that weight and that burden of complication off their shoulders and just let their hair down as such yeah, yeah, and that's how control systems work, you see.
Speaker 2:So a lot of the things that are out there people don't really need, but they've been sold into these, uh, sophistications and it keeps their mind busy.
Speaker 1:And because it keeps their mind busy, it keeps them away from simple things like even working on their health how many people have money and they eat so bad it doesn't make sense, you know there's a bunch of like questions now that I'm getting curious, of like, having heard you speak. Actually, there's one thing do you see your mic? Could you pull it and put it onto your t-shirt so it's that bit closer to your mic? Sure, because you're a soft speaker and I want to make sure that we hear every word of you. Brilliant, yeah, um, I'm curious, like when you gave that insight there of like how many people are so unbelievably wealthy but at the same time, like really not caring for themselves in terms of diet and, I'd say, in terms of self-care across the board. Can I ask what are your kind of core principles in terms of self-care across the board? Can I ask what are your kind of core principles in terms of looking after yourself?
Speaker 2:Right. So I believe in man under God, and so man is the first representation of God here on this planet, and for him to care for anybody else, he has to take care of himself first. So I believe in eating good, simple foods that mother nature has provided for us. Doesn't have to be complicated. God's design is mathematically perfect. So if God gives you a mango, mango, good you know. If God gives you a pear or a pineapple, that's alright with me. Fresh meat, I'll eat fresh meat. The lion in the jungle eats fresh meat. That's why the lion is king. The lioness eats fresh meat. That's why she's queen. She doesn't eat meat that's days old. That's left for the hyenas and for the vultures, the kings and queens. They don't eat anything else apart from fresh meat. So I eat fresh meat because I want to be big and strong, to be the king within my territory.
Speaker 2:I drink water, lots of water. I don't drink much alcohol. I'm not against completely alcohol. Sometimes I will drink. But I'm 42, so I've had to scale back over the last few years to maintain my fitness and I look after myself. I use good creams on my body, good shower gels. I take good care of my hair. I have my hair cut once a week. I train in the gym. I read good books. I just do everything for myself. First, I really have a good self-care regime, so I can't fake self-love.
Speaker 2:I'm practicing self-love yeah, I'm not just telling myself I love myself, I love myself, I love myself. I'm actually doing things that show myself that I love myself. So if I eat an apple, an apple's good for me, I'm telling myself I love myself without saying it you know, and it's really so.
Speaker 1:That's such a simple reorientation of affirmations, because there's so many people that are looking at themselves in the mirror and saying I love myself, I love myself, I love myself. And really it means nothing without the actions to back it up. But with the actions doesn't even need to be said, it's shared in every action, in every movement that is, in complement to oneself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I used to smoke cigarettes years ago and you know what the cigarette is. Cigarette is. The reason why cigarettes give you peace is because you know that you're killing yourself and it's like a few more seconds to death. And that's what brings people peace, because the life's so stressful it's like. It's like having peace from slowly killing yourself. A lot of people don't realize it. That's where the peace of the cigarette comes from okay, I don't quite grasp that yeah but I, I have to say I really do.
Speaker 1:I love, like when I asked you your priorities, they're very true to what you shared before. In terms of simplicity, it's like jamie I eat well, I drink well. I avoid the things that I know aren't good for me. I challenge myself in terms of learning development. I look after my beauty.
Speaker 2:Like very few men will be open about that in terms of their self-care and their beauty, because we've been told to be rough and tough, yeah, and in some ways because we feel like, oh, we have to be rough and tough, that we're not supposed to take care of ourselves and so many men don't take care and then they find it hard to then lead. They find it hard to then lead in relationships because they're not taking care of themselves as well. But actually back in the day, you know, hundreds and even thousands of years ago, the men did take very good care of themselves. You know, if a man was training to be a warrior, he had a good routine. You know he slept well because he knew he had to fight the next day. For sure he was working out to get his body in very good condition so he can wield the sword. You know he couldn't drink too much wine, couldn't be drunk every day for sure he couldn't be drunk yeah you know, especially if he was a leader about amongst men, that was gonna.
Speaker 2:He was preparing to leave them to battle. You have to have a good routine. You have to practice self-love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if I go back to the first few minutes of our conversation you noted on the idea of, essentially, history being rewritten, it's always been.
Speaker 1:I wholeheartedly believe. What's that great quote? That history belongs to the victors of war, as it should. And when I think of how our ancestors are portrayed in tv, media, movies, entertainment, you see, like the warriors of the past, uh, drinking themselves silly and and really like being rough and tough and going out to war. But the the fact of the matter is, yeah, a disciplined soldier would whip that person away in a second. There's no way that was the kind of the warrior archetype of the past. I think the warrior archetype which I'm kind of hearing you share. It's like it's kind of almost a very distant idea to so many. But the fact is, yeah, if you were going to war, if you knew at some point you were going to sit in front of somebody and your skills were going to be determining factor between whether living or dying, you would commit yourself to a high, high level of self-discipline, self-respect, practice and growth.
Speaker 2:It's a bit like us guys who go to war today. We know that if we have to face a meeting in the morning, right, we're not going to turn up drunk, are we? No, no, it's the same yeah yeah, but it's.
Speaker 1:It is interesting that for me, when I look at, like, let's say, the references of movies that share notes of their past, it's like wait, no, it just couldn't have been like that.
Speaker 2:It like it, just that doesn't add up because we all know like we've all had nights before where we've really gone out and been hung over and it's affected us for a week. Some of these guys would have worked that out back then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, survival of the fittest, I'd say the majority. At a certain point Would you put your life on the line just to get drunk?
Speaker 2:No, and you know, if you knew that some person was going to wield a sword in your face?
Speaker 1:I actually feel in a much more dangerous world where I think we take a lot of peace for granted. You know, we kind of look at wild animal kingdoms and we think oh God, that's so ferocious. But if we go back a couple of thousand years I'd say it must have been. I love that in the background. I think it must have been very scary roaming around at night. You know, really there was no societal norms, no governing support to protect you. You were very much out on your own. And do I think I'd be eating and drinking? Eating too much, drinking too much in that kind of environment? Absolutely not. You'd have your wits about you to a whole different level that I don't think we could even imagine for where we are right now, for your wits about you to a whole different level that I don't think we could even imagine for where we are right now.
Speaker 1:For sure, yeah, yeah. So when we think, I say we, but when I recognize in myself a couple of years ago that if I reflected back on our previous generations there was an idea that they were so primitive, so basic, so you know, just messing, it's nonsense actually no essence. It's nonsense. Actually. Their, their level of awareness, their level of um of independence, their strength, their resilience just must have been, as I said, unimaginable to today's standards. That's true, they were just more simple.
Speaker 2:But simple doesn't mean that they were dumb. They were just more simple, which means that they were more clearer and just smaller aspects of life that's all it is. You know, humans today are probably less clear, you know, because someone can spend their time scrolling all day through instagram and tiktok.
Speaker 1:Maybe 400 years ago, the average man spent a lot more time thinking about who he was becoming because he didn't have all these different distractions yeah, I also notice how um distracted I am by how others present themselves, present themselves online, and there's a thought in me that like, oh, I should be like that person and I should be like that person, and I've gone on journeys of like mimicking or shadowing somebody else, only to realize that's not me yeah and I find that that's something that I'm growing actually like almost frustrated and like pushing away.
Speaker 1:Like when I see somebody influencing factors, let's say online, I'm like push that away because for every time one of them shows up and perhaps inspires and excites me, it also distracts me away from figuring out what it is that's inside me, who I really am, and I think, like what you shared with that person from times ago that would have spent a lot of time considering who they are and how they're going to show up in the world, I find that others are very quickly distract you away from those thoughts and very quickly can take you on journeys away from yourself and to maintain discipline, to follow your own path, it's, it's very hard. Actually, it takes a lot of discipline and a lot of kind of like rebellious energy.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's why it's a lot harder for people to reconnect with themselves, because now there's so much access.
Speaker 1:Everyone has so much access to each other you know, it's just like constant marketing so when you're saying constant access to each other, the kind of the image that's coming up for me is if I look at my phone and I see 30 whatsapps and this feeling of like, oh my god, I have to reply and I kind of pulled away from again me, my time, my pursuit of self. Um, is that kind of what you're saying meaning?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, which is why it's important the self-love game, you know to give to self first, because you can't avoid all of those things. You know we still have to maintain contact with the rest of the world. You know community, but strong communities are maintained on stronger selves. Yeah, and so that means I have a routine where I tell myself in the morning I must always give to myself first so I can give to everybody else, and I live by that. You know, if I'm not feeling so good you know, maybe I haven't trained my shoulders and the arms are feeling a little bit weak I probably wouldn't spend too much time with my missus or my son I'll go and train, I'll run it off, I'll get myself into a good state and then I can come and give good energy to everybody else. But I find it weird now to entertain or give to others when I'm not feeling so good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I notice I'm hearing kind of the analogy of one should never pour from an empty cup. Fill your cup first, pour from the overflow. The other thought that's running through my head is that I always thought I wanted chickens when I have a home, but actually hearing the clues in the background I'm like no, absolutely not, I don't want chickens here?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're always going off in the afternoon.
Speaker 1:They go off in the morning and they go from the afternoon too. Yeah gosh, yeah, I'm nature for you. I'm recognizing that, that I get myself into trouble, um, with others and and with myself when I haven't filled my cup, first and foremost. And yet there's this kind of thought that I need to put others sometimes ahead of me and everything, and it never serves. And, with an observational thought on it, that when I give to others before I give to myself, it never serves.
Speaker 1:I, there's a part of me that thinks it does in the moment and thinks I should, but in reflection it never does. And so I like that. I'm starting to recognize the benefits of retreating at times when you feel you're out of sorts. When you wake up and you just know you're not in a great, great space, it's okay to cancel meetings and connections, to postpone, to reschedule, so that you don't do yourself a disservice by showing up at 50% or less, yeah, and that you honour somebody in showing up at your right capacity, and that might not be as often as others around you might like, but better to honour yourself in that respect first and foremost.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, okay. Even when it comes to personal relationships, family, the same, exactly the same.
Speaker 1:Can I ask you then it's lovely in terms of the collective thought that you have on so many areas in this regard what's something that's really frustrating about society right now?
Speaker 2:I don't find anything frustrating because I understand it.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So I just look at it as what is, because if I tap into mother nature, I understand what the plan is, and so there's nothing to be frustrated for. Other people are going to be frustrated, but I'm not okay, that's, yeah, that's actually quite like.
Speaker 1:Obviously, that brings you a hell of a lot more peace than a lot of people that are getting frustrated by everything that's going on at the moment is.
Speaker 2:So could you expand on that a bit more for me, okay, so right now, the I mean the planet is always going through evolution. It never stops. Um. The speed of evolution, though, is affecting a lot of people. This is where the stress is coming in. So what's happening is the planet is increasing the vibration, which means that everything is heating up and everything is spinning at a much faster rate. Um, this also means things like inflation, you know, higher cost of living. It also means the movement from the physical world to digital world, which we had since Covid, hmm, which is basically the planet's way of saying, you know, for example, leave the trees alone, because, before you know, books, money, paper from trees. We need trees to breathe, and modern nature's like hey, leave those trees alone, because if you keep cutting down those trees, none of you guys will be able to breathe, you'll suffocate yeah so it's time for you to enter into the digital world, the etheric world, and so then that's just.
Speaker 2:That was the start of digital money, more or less really moving into the four digital e-books, for example. Yeah, so in most cases we won't really use so much paper again. That was a huge shift for a lot of people, moving from the physical world into the digital world world into the digital world. Also, the planet is also shifting through to see who is going to be the fittest and who deserves to produce their bloodline.
Speaker 2:Moving into this new age, where it is a digital age, a high tech age, an AI, robotic age, and what nature wants to do is replace a lot of people who consume but are not living up to their highest ideal, and the highest ideal is always love.
Speaker 2:That's why self-love is important, and ones who are not very much in love with themselves will kind of be turned over to the darkness. So there's like a balance of light and dark, and they will be given degeneracy and lots of other tools to consume themselves into oblivion. And the ones who love themselves will take good care of themselves, and because they take good care of themselves, they'll take care of others, and so if they take care of themselves and because they take good care of themselves, they'll take care of others. And so if they take care of others, they're going to be in a bubble of love. They'll be able to have partners and replicate that self love in DNA into a child which is more evolved, that child, from having that DNA programming for the parents will be able to even take better care of the planet after, and so what human beings need to realise this is why you need to listen to the black man is that human beings aren't the most important.
Speaker 2:See, every time you eat and you look at your plate, you might have a steak on your plate, you might have a bit of lettuce, you might have a bit of tomato they're all just as important as you. That's why you're exchanging yourself with the damn thing, right? And what's happening is is because in the west, or I'd say the westernised part of the world, has become very consumerist, but we're not able to replace these. We're not able to replace these resources at the same rate. And what I mean by replacing resources, I mean clean resources. You know, a lot of farmers are growing things very quickly, but they're using genetically modified resources to do so, and that actually makes the land sick. So, in turn, it makes people sick. So that's why you're seeing a lot of toxicity happening in the West Coming from the toxic food. It was the toxic thought to speed up the process, the natural process.
Speaker 1:This is such a big, exciting subject for me to get to talk to you about. So yeah, I recognize that there is an evolving pace, vibration in the world right now where it seems like there's this sprouting of consciousness in so many but I'm a big believer in kind of balance and equals and opposites. It seems like there's this unbelievable naivety coupled with the level of superiority. And when you share Western thinking. I don't necessarily think it's like geographic, I just see it symptomatic across the whole world where there's types that think that we are, as humans, top of the food chain and we can consume and we can rip apart and we can do whatever we want without consequence yeah and I am seeing the speeding up of, let's say, the negative consequences of that and that, being a complicated thinking as well, that we can science our way out of this problem.
Speaker 1:We can sort things out.
Speaker 1:When you talk like genetically modified, when you also, oh, think like over tech and and I'm seeing that as like a fast developing downward spiral- that was great but on the other side, I'm seeing exactly this, this like developing sense of balance, of understanding that we do not sit on the top of the food sorry, food pyramid, but in actual fact we're kind of like in equal balance to it all and there's also perhaps a level of responsibility of bringing a greater level of balance, perhaps, too, and and that that's actually like I love the laws of karma that for whatever level of good we bring to the world, it will reflect itself back on us, and I think there's a karmic thinking coming to so many.
Speaker 2:It's like the lion. The lion is king of the jungle. I always revert back to the jungle because, you see, the jungle is the biggest teacher, because it's so simplistic, it represents God. That's why in Egypt we still have statues of animals, because it represented God at the highest level. So you see, you see in the jungle the lion when he goes out to hunt he doesn't massacre.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he'll go out. He'll kill one fresh zebra for the day and leave the rest for another day. So he eats his fresh meat for the day he remains healthy. So he eats his fresh meat for the day he remains healthy. He doesn't go out there and massacre the whole thing, because he needs healthy zebras for another day. You know, imagine if a group of lions went and they found out where all the zebras were sleeping and cornered them and said okay, you zebras are not getting nowhere. Now you zebras are in a cage and we're going to pick you off one by one, you know. So we, you know, we're gonna, you know we're gonna get our food, yeah yeah right, and then we're gonna give some to the rest of the lions whenever.
Speaker 2:So, just by cornering those zebras, those zebras are going to have a mental breakdown. Yeah, who's going to eat those zebras? Those lions. Lions are probably going to end up having a mental breakdown because of the food that they're consuming, you see, so sorry, michael, I have to interrupt that.
Speaker 1:I just think it is so funny, as you're talking about the laws of the jungle and I'm like firstly, there's like a lovely, nice jungle scape. Behind you there's all sorts of animals, there's like two chickens chasing each other, there's what seems like an almost alligator sized lizard creeping around, and there's a part of me that's feeling a bit like oh god, this is a podcast I'm recording and there's all this noise in the background. And then there's another part that it's like no, jamie, this is just perfect actually this is very.
Speaker 2:This is nature. It's natural. Where's the lizard, by the way? Down, down, down down is he a big one?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, yeah, let him be yeah, I, I always remember having um and this thought around like eating energy and this kind of idea that if your food is going through a whole breakdown process and fear and anxiety before it's slaughtered and then you eat it, you're taking on an enormous amount. I like what you noted. You're like, look, I'll eat fresh fruit, I'll eat fresh vegetable, I'll eat fresh meat. We're like, look, I'll eat fresh fruit, I'll eat fresh vegetable, I'll eat fresh meat. Um, but if meat's been kind of sitting in a packet for three, four weeks and pumped up with all sorts of preservatives and everything like that, it's going to have a very toxic effect in you.
Speaker 1:simple kind of makes quite a bit of sense but really simple I think so many of us again are just choosing to be really really detached from our food chain, really really detached from what actually is self-love. Like I, I really have this, this image of this naive type sitting in a mirror saying I love myself, I love myself, I love myself, and then and then not reflecting that in it, kind of any of their self-care, their self-practices, and wondering why they're feeling as ill as they are and out of sorts as they are. And it's actually with that kind of perspective it's so obvious yes, it, it really is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is the detachment away from nature. And so when you look at bigger cities, obviously they're more detached because they're looking at more of the concrete surroundings and it kind of concretes the brain off. It's actually understanding the balance in nature and then these people allow themselves to get sick.
Speaker 1:Um, because the corporations understand the game yeah, I do feel that you know, you know that note that you said or sorry, that we both talked to, essentially that, like history has essentially been rewritten and there is a deeper intellect at play. Where society on too many levels is ill serving, it's not bringing out the best in us, it's bringing out the worst in so many and that worst is serving the pockets of so few Of course, that's how the game is played yeah that a lot of like this thought is shunned in conspiracy.
Speaker 1:It's like no, no, if you think that way, you're a conspiracist, you're a hippie, you're this, you're that and the next. But if you actually just really give it a little bit of thought, it makes a hell of a lot of sense. And it's odd that to think in a self-centered, self-caring way is to be quite rebellious. To follow your heart is to be rebellious, and that there's this enormous, let's say, normalizing vote, impressed upon so many of us that if you aren't being normal, you're an outsider, and if you're an outsider, we should come after you with almost pitchforks yeah well, here's another thought, if you can bring out the worst in people, then there's always something that they need to buy to become better.
Speaker 2:Okay, so then you make them into consumers, but so then you, your job at the top really is to bring them as low as possible, and so they have this huge range, this huge gulf to get back to betterness, and along the way, then you need to sell them so many other things. Yeah, if you start them up here, a person who's really really healthy and better probably won't need too many things. He won't need, or she won't need, the weight loss program. They're going to be in good shape. You know, I won't need alcohols anonymous, because they'll be moderate with their drinking do you ever look at Rattopia?
Speaker 1:no, it's like the experiments on colonies of rats, right and like they. They hooked. There's so many different kind of experiments on this um, but where they take a population of rats and for one they'll put them in a very sterilizing environment with access to drugs and they'll drug themselves to death very quickly. And others they'll put them in a very positive complementing environment and they'll give them access to very quickly. And others they'll put them in a very positive complimenting environment and they'll give them access to drugs and access then to good foods. They avoid the drugs and they go for the good foods.
Speaker 1:So the good environment actually stimulates people pursuing, let's say, their best selves. That's what I'll pull from that experiment, so many others. If anybody's listening on, it's actually well worth a long journey in YouTube because it reflects a lot about us. I kind of find it's almost easier to observe traits in, let's say, a distant kind of formula or a distant experiment before you take them into your own, because it can be quite scary when you see them as confronting, as so much of, let's say, the ill care, the ill respect that you have for yourself is being impressed upon, impressed upon you by the environment you're in the company you keep, and if you only put yourself in a different environment, how different you might be and no one gets it all right.
Speaker 2:I mean, look, I vape. I mean I mean, that's the only thing I. I don't really drink, unless I go to europe in the summer. I really help what I eat really well, um, but I enjoy it. But because my other values are so high in other areas, it will kind of negate this one off. But I probably wouldn't do this if I was drinking a lot and eating bad food and not training ah.
Speaker 1:So an indulgence, a vice in proportion, is actually quite nice to enjoy. That's the whole point. You can enjoy it. That's something that my younger self didn't get, but I'm starting to get more and more. It's like Jamie, your best self is not some rigid, sterilizing form of kind of rules and routines.
Speaker 2:Those people are the most boring people. So you know, they don't do anything. It's like, oh my God, so what can you do with you? It, yeah, I, so you know they're one. They don't do anything. It's like, oh my god, so what can you do with you? It's like you don't you know I, I do know you know, people like this in the bud, you know, and that's like they're so boring I, uh, I do know exactly what you're saying already you know I was waiting for death well it's, it's like you're boring yourself too, yeah, and I.
Speaker 1:I now I'm recognizing that there's a lovely balance and and it is so nice to enjoy the finer things in life, the indulges. Indulgences in life and quite interesting to observe the balance of like, let's say, eating a slice of chocolate cake's delicious. Eating a whole chocolate cake will have you feeling sick and awful for about a week that's very interesting that there's a fine balance.
Speaker 2:Sugar's bad, but for sure I'll sit with my son and we'll eat an ice cream. But we won't have an ice cream every day, but when we do have the ice cream, it's so good and it's so nice to treat oneself yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so it's not all about just doing what's good for you in the basic sense, but actually sometimes the bad things can be really good for you too, provided there's a moderation and, yeah, discipline around it yeah, but if you discipline yourself, it actually doesn't become a bad thing.
Speaker 2:This is your concept, like this is. I found this good for me because it's a small, small part of, and I enjoy the flavor, I enjoy the vape. I can still run, I can still train, so I enjoy it and I don't feel any bad effects from it if I was feeling really bad effects from something I'd stop doing it yeah, interesting.
Speaker 2:I have friends and they're still ringing me about. Oh yeah, well, I drank so much last night and I've got this huge, terrible hangover. And I'm thinking in the back of my head well, why are you doing it like? Why don't you just enjoy the drink? Like, what about? No one's talking about the flavor? You know, especially these people. They don't talk about the flavor. They didn't say, oh, I went out for a few drinks last night and, oh and, what I was drinking was absolutely delicious well, I sorry I have to.
Speaker 1:Kind of an interesting one again for drink. I went off drinks drink for years. Then I recognize actually, you know what sometimes, every so often, having a drink is lovely. It can be a real way to connect with certain friends as well but.
Speaker 1:I don't necessarily like what. I recognize that, if that's my way to connect, indulge in it because it's lovely to have that connection still in my life. Yeah, um, I definitely recognize there's a interesting one for me in terms of recognizing the marketing impact on my tastes. Like sometimes on a hot day I'm like, oh, I'd love a cold beer and I'm like, well, actually I don't really it doesn't taste so good, but I have started to have an affection for a spicy margarita delicious and it tastes good.
Speaker 2:It tastes good, one tastes really good, great three not so great one's great yeah in certain moments and I think about enjoying it yeah, I don't really appreciate so much when people just talk about drink without appreciating the taste. If you're going to drink a whiskey, how did it taste? Was it delicious? How did it fill in the palate? The glass of wine, how did it feel like? If you're just drinking to get drunk, I mean, you're just numbing yourself away, you're disconnecting yourself from the enjoyment. You're not really doing it for enjoyment and actually a lot of people aren't. Because you see, even things like alcohol, alcohol is used to numb pain. So a lot of people who do drink a lot, they are inherently numbing their pain away. So that's why they're not even talking about, they're not even processing the fact that they're. Oh, I like the taste and that's not enough.
Speaker 1:I need a drink because it's like numbing the pain, the internal pain ah, so the actual, the impact in terms of numbing the pain outweighs perhaps the taste of it. And really, what, what's registering so much is? With every drink it's like ah, I'm feeling less pain, I'm feeling less disease, I'm feeling less discomfort. This is such a relief. This is so nice exactly less discomfort.
Speaker 2:If you notice a lot of people go and they drink and it's easier to talk everyone, everyone's a bit more because naturally they're living in a lot of discomfort, they're holding so many emotions and it allows them to not feel the pain because it's numbed down and then they can actually in some cases be themselves, be this happy, lively, jokey person For the moment.
Speaker 1:Yes, because for me what I get is actually again, I think a lot of things get a bad rap and I see there's medicine and alcohol. Very few people will touch into, like the benefits of alcohol. I always think it's funny when, like the holistic scene had their ceremonies for plant medicines and everything but alcohol is a plant medicine in itself. It can be very good in that momentary sorry, in that moment, to lessen the pain, to help somebody cope. But when it's overindulged and it comes in place of actually processing those emotions, I think that's where the issues really really stem up. But it can actually be a really really nice thing in terms of connective and in relating to enjoy a drink together.
Speaker 2:That's a person who is in control and is a master of alcohol, understands that you can kind of master everything. Well, there are some things which have been put on the planet which you don't want to try and master. What comes to mind there I would say things like cocaine, heroin, um, they're super demonic and they're meant to be for a reason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I was wondering what examples were going to come to mind. I had no idea. I thought you were going to like, say, master catching lions, or something like that but no, I mean cocaine, for example, is from the cocoa plant.
Speaker 2:All plants actually have, um, different characters. That's why you get different tastes and different spirits, like, say, for example, from the drinks. Um, and each plant has their own essence, so they'll give you a different type of produce. Uh, the cocoa plant, yes, will get you if you produce cocaine from it. Yes, it will get you very high. And what it does is it opens up all your boundaries. So that's why, with cocaine, you feel like having crazy sex, you feel like drinking more. You are the life of the party. You can keep going at the party hours and hours and hours, because your boundaries are open. It's like your free spirit, this childlike I just want to do everything. Spirit comes out.
Speaker 2:But when those boundaries are open, the demons can come, because they can actually eat on your fear, because you also have been living in fear. That's why you had to do the cocaine in the first place. So then the demons can attach themselves to your fear and eat on your energy, and that's when you feel really bad on the come down. It's because the demons are sucking energy and they're living on you, and then they'll just keep getting you to do it again and again, because each time you do it, you're bringing out fear, this negative energy, which is what they eat on.
Speaker 2:And demons aren't actually bad, okay, so I'm a pretty much a I'm known as a master of the spiritual world, in a way like especially the underworld, and what demons are here to do, because they're a part of nature, is to destroy things that are not using energy to its highest degree. So put things in your way so that you realize, because at some point, if your energy is being sucked and sucked and sucked, you might go. I don't feel very good. I don't feel very good. This is not the way. There must be something better, but if you don't, it will destroy you, as meant to be, and then the energy can go back into the planet for better use.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I remember hearing an interview with some astronaut actually who was asked about aliens and he said are there aliens out there in space? And he said oh, no, no, no, they're right here in front of us, right now, they're all around us and I think we I, I recognize that we only see, I think it's 0.1 percent of what's actually in our world, around us. Our eyes are tuned to so little. It's certainly less than 99, and I believe that when you hear of like, let's say these emotional states like fear, like anxiety, and like happiness and motivation and inspiration, excitement, these are energies in our sphere that we can let in and foster or we can protect ourselves from.
Speaker 1:And I believe that the more let's say good we do, the more it, let's say, builds a force field, pushing those negative elements, negative serving elements, out and welcoming in those positive exactly, yeah, positive. But there also is, in proportion, good value in each of them and I actually see them as almost beings, I see them as like in a like I, if I go into beautiful raw nature, what I mean by raw nature is not like a perfectly manicured park, which could be, could consider perhaps, a torture garden, but in actual fact like a wild forest. I feel that there's really beautiful energy in that and I sometimes find when I go into other places that there's perhaps the opposite of that and I don't believe it's. You know, it's my instincts. Feeling nothing. I actually feel there's those energies there that again, can be outside of me but can also be inside of me and can have quite a challenging impact, are complimenting yeah, that's certainly true.
Speaker 2:So the more you are in a positive state, which is a high vibrationary state, you're going to be able to access higher vibrational beings and energies that will continue to do more good. And if you're more in the lower vibrational state by right, you're going to be able to access more low vibrational beings, and they both create balance. So both are needed and you need something to fight against. So if you understand that there is a very dark path which you can fall into the nothingness, you'll probably want to go into the oneness. You want to go up because you see the other side. You know, like you can't just be oh, I want to do good, but how would you know good if you didn't reflect against what you consider bad?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's at that moment that I'm looking at you and I'm very curious. When you said I'm a master of the underworld, what does that mean to you?
Speaker 2:Well, it means that I understand everything that happens in the dark, everything that happens in dark, the things that people cannot see. It still seen, it's still here. It may be just felt and so you might not be able to see spirits, but they're here. This is known as the island of gods. They are here. A lot of people look up. Well, the balinese people are always doing ceremony because there's lots of gods here and they want to be recognized.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all those energies.
Speaker 2:The Balinese people recognize all those energies. You know they give respect to all those energies.
Speaker 1:So what I loved about the Balinese culture was that I recognized that they honored both the good gods and the bad gods.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:And that, for me, is an interesting one because, let's say, the Western thinking or the original thinking that I was brought up with was that one should fear, we should fear the devil, we should fear Satan, and, like you said there only a moment ago, that we only recognize good when it's in contrast with bad. And we I love this saying it's from Vanilla Sky without the sour, the sweet ain't as sweet. And if we go back to the very start of the conversation, I said I only really know, understood what self-respect was when I'd gone to the depths of self-disrespect and my journey of, let's say, into darkness has been probably one of the most fruitful journeys, um, that most of us are encouraged to shy away from. But I think, without that contrast and without the understanding that comes from delving deep into what could be perceived as negative, well, it actually, in fact it almost has a positive, and I'm yeah, I'm curious when I share that with you what comes up, yeah no, that's true.
Speaker 2:It's actually why, when things are too good and people haven't delved into their darkness, you stop appreciating what's good. I actually think this is what's happened with the current Westernized society, which is kind of dominated by white people. You guys have had it too good for such a long period of time and so, because you've had it so good, you're so happy to degenerate yourself, because you've lost the appreciation of what's good. You forgot how hard your ancestors fought to dominate the world.
Speaker 1:You forgot about it and uh, it's an interesting one how hard our forefathers worked to give us the life that we have. I'm not just thinking with regards to white legacy, I'm thinking with regards to a whole global state.
Speaker 2:That like how hard our ancestors worked to put us in the position that we are right now and people are like now yeah, don't have kids and they have everything you know nice house, tv, swimming pool I mean not everybody, but you know generally, you know people hey, I've gone into some of the poorest spaces in the world and I've seen tvs in literally cardboard houses, and yet there's still a very nice tv hooked up to netflix.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought that was fascinating then you have the most sophisticated ones saying that they don't want to have children. That doesn't make sense. They have access to such good resources.
Speaker 2:You know, and they lost the appreciation. So that's why, also, now it's mostly going to be people from the western world who are going to be facing their darkness a lot more, which is what I'm trying to help with, because now there's a lot more mental problems. There's a lot more men who are they're single and they'll tell you to, you know, they'll tell you on the, you know in instagram. Yeah, everything's fine, I don't need any woman, I don't need anything, I'm happy on my own, I'm just gonna keep working my business and, you know, I'm just gonna fuck all the bitches. And but deep down, when they're at home alone, they're going through mental anguish. Because everyone wants love. It's already written into the program. It's what nature wants us to be, to be.
Speaker 1:It's what nature wants us to do to be loved, to do love can I ask you, because you know, there's such a, there's such a, a women's movement in the world. I was about to say right now, but I'm almost thinking five, six, seven, eight years ago with me too and a real like, like, fuck the patriarchy, let's recalibrate. And there's a lot of that in that. That's great, and there's a lot of that that I'm really curious in terms of how it serves. But why is it, in particular, that more and more people are becoming conscious of the, of the issues around men, and what actually are the issues of men in your eyes?
Speaker 2:well, men have had it too good, so they've become too effeminate okay you know, I'd say from the 50s and 60s, you know, when it was a, the formation of the sexual revolution, which is actually formed by men. Actually it wasn't women, men formed this so they can have uh easy access to sex and obviously then it was just easier for every man to have access to so many women to have sex. Get up, leave. You know, for a man it was great. You know, before he had to court the girl, he had to meet the parents, you know, convince the dad to take her out, just to take her out here, to sit me up, mine, you're going to bring her home by 10 o'clock.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, you know and with the sexual, sexual revolution is none of that. Didn't have to meet the father, meet the girl on the bar. If you like each other, we can just go home and have sex. I can say thank you very much, leave, and I could do this with another girl. So the men lost their discipline by having too much choice, by giving themselves too much choice, and then eventually, the women don't trust that, you see, because it doesn't make the men feel safe. So they have to then apply their own masculinity, which they have from their fathers and their DNA, and they let that override more of their femininity and they use their masculinity to drive themselves. And when they do that, they're just not going to like men, because the men are not being men.
Speaker 1:So I'm hearing kind of two sides of it. One, guys had it so good that, unfortunately speaking, they've almost self-imploded. Very almost true to the what you're sharing in terms of a societal perspective at the moment, that certain societies have too good and there's this downward spiral that's kicking into effect.
Speaker 1:It's always happened, you see but with regards to men in particular in this sphere, what you're sharing is that there's almost like a double consequence, because not only are men going through this downward spiral and identity crisis, but at the same time, their counterparts, let's say in women, are leaning into their more masculine sense, so they have an identity crisis too and and hating on men as well and just go.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'll go do this, oh, I don't need you anymore. And so a guy is losing his purpose, losing his self-worth, and doesn't necessarily know what to do or where to turn to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's pretty much it. It's difficult to admit that. No one wants to really admit this. It wants to be like, yeah, I'm fine, I'm good, because everyone wants self-respect, they want respect from others, and so a lot of people are dealing with these issues alone. This is what's going on internally and obviously, as a person who understands the darkness, I can tap into anyone's darkness, no matter where they are. So I feel this, and it's something that now it doesn't need to change totally, because if people are supposed to go for it, it's for a reason, and so eventually a lot of people will re-appreciate, they'll really re-appreciate themselves, and they're going to re-appreciate each other. So this turbulence for this period of time is needed, can I?
Speaker 1:ask when you're sharing this period of time is needed. Can I ask when you're sharing this period of time? And you know, you also kind of talked about like this real shift where we're going from paper to digital and like there's this you talked about investing in crypto and a huge amount of thought is around money, like crypto is the new gold, and like when we're talking shifts, like the world is moving very fast and whereas if this was a couple of hundred years ago, I'd be like, ah, this will take place over 100 years, but it really seems like actually we're having these global shifts every couple of years now yeah, because the world speeds up, the vibration speeding up, so time speeds up yeah, time speeds up yeah, so it's.
Speaker 2:it's even more difficult for people to to connect because there's so many more things going on, but that's why it's even more important to connect with self and come back to base, so that you're able to deal with the speed in a much more better way.
Speaker 1:It's funny that, yeah, what I'm hearing from you, and now when I go back to your kind of notes around priority and self-care from you, and now when I go back to your kind of notes around priority and self-care, you're very purposely slowing yourself down, indulging in simplicity and taking care of yourself to navigate away from the challenges of the speeding up world a lot of people are fighting against it.
Speaker 2:You see, the average man and woman in the west bills getting more expensive life getting more expensive, less money for good things, because they're trying to keep up with the speed and so they're stressed out yeah and if they're stressed out, they can't keep up with the speed, the tech and the robot which doesn't have the same amount of emotions.
Speaker 2:It's impossible to keep up with it. You're not supposed to keep up, but you're supposed to be above it, and you can only be above it with self-love can I share a line with you that I liked?
Speaker 1:recently chatting to a russian friend and he talked about how ridiculous it is that women were looking for parity with men. It's like in russia women would never lower themselves to the to the line of men, and I just thought, thought that was so it is so true, so true, we're a bit more rugged, we're a bit more rough.
Speaker 1:We're different species altogether and this idea of like this, wanting to be like others, like I, think it's so sad in the development of any one man or woman, black man, white man, any colored man to want to be somebody else and to shun away your individuality, which is like your greatest gift to oh, we've all done it.
Speaker 2:I've done this. I mean, part of my self-work journey really is coming back to my african roots and learning these things, because we've been I'd say a lot of us have been shunning, because I think, during the times when the Europeans took over and they took over and they rewrote history, they understood what they had to do and they did understand that by taking away someone's history or their access to history, if they didn't know themselves, it's easier to, it's easier to control them yeah, you know, this is the same in Ireland, by the way it's the same everywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's why the victors should rewrite history, but they can't let the other people that you just defeated that, that you got that, oh no, but remember, we defeated you, but you guys are still great. Did you know you've got all these qualities in that quote?
Speaker 1:no, yeah well, yeah, why that would be stupid, I do.
Speaker 1:I do think it is an interesting one that actually admired the victor when you go to most nations, yeah, they have had their history ripped away from them, their roots ripped away from. I don't think there's a country that you could say, oh no, they haven't had this. I don't think there's a people Like there's a lot of. There's a lot of talk with regards to ancestral slavery, let's say in a black lineage, but there are so many like Irish, I think, were literally slave trades.
Speaker 2:Everyone's been a slave at some point in everyone's lineage.
Speaker 1:But also as well, we are generations, let's say beyond, some less than more. But why does this want to align with divisionary thought? Let's say, for example, say like there's some that want to align with a certain race, others that want to align with a certain gender, others that want to align with a certain faith, and with all of them there's like, let's say, a aligning with areas of hurt and prosecution of perhaps others and it seems to be this I.
Speaker 1:For others it's their experience and good for them, but for me I look at and I'm like this is nonsense. This is one big distraction. Like I, I love the saying the more I know, the more I realize there is to know, and so the more I actually recognize how silly I am, how naive I am and what that really does is. It fires me up with curiosity for the world. I want to know as much as I can. The very last thing I want to do is one categorize somebody to block myself off from a level of curiosity or openness and learning with them. But it seems like there's this divisionary trend and this like blanket cutting off, like it's hilarious at the moment, if you ask somebody, are they a trump supporter, they're like, yeah, I'm a trump supporter. Like, are you curious about? Like kamala harris? Like I don't want to know anything about her, and likewise vice versa.
Speaker 2:If you bring up covid, it is natural as well, to align tribally with, with your beliefs. Is it good?
Speaker 1:I think it is a good thing because at least in your current, in your nearest environment, you can have a collection of community so there must be a fine line here in terms of like, yes, like normative behaviors, community, a sense of belonging, a sense of togetherness, really, really nice. But when it starts coming at the expense of individuality, that's a kind of a line that I'm like hey wait, I think we're going to really cut off something here, because it's the individuals, it's the rebels, it's the trailblazers, the ones that do things differently, that open, give us opportunity to learn and to grow, and the societies.
Speaker 2:Um, this is the thing about light and dark and seeing the ugly truth. The rebels and the trailblazers need people who are not so enlightened, otherwise you have no one to help, you see. So this is the cycle and, uh, once you understand that, you kind of have peace. It's like you can still want to change the world, but you're never going to fully change the world.
Speaker 1:There's always going to be work to do yeah so the best thing you can do is keep trying to change your environment and help the people near near to you and in your community and actually, as you're sharing this, I'm remembering back to kind of earlier parts of this conversation where you were talking about your inner peace, away from the distraction of the goings-on in the world.
Speaker 1:You said look, I know what's at play here, and like without conformists, there aren't rebellious types. Without like, in one area the world might be descending, but on the other it might be ascending and and so, as you come to experience life with that that I'm hearing it's like do you know what? The best I can do is myself? I can look after myself as best as possible, and if people come to me taking inspiration from how I'm looking after myself, I, I can share what's working for me, but perhaps I shouldn't shove it down the throat. Perhaps I should share from a place of like, self-experience and inspiration, um, but I I shouldn't look to influence, I shouldn't look to influence okay that's what we're doing.
Speaker 1:That's what we're doing right now oh, I'd actually say this is sharing it's sharing.
Speaker 2:But if we're going to put this out there, it's to influence others and they're going to go. You know what? These topics? I've been thinking about these things in my head. I was afraid to talk about it, but these two guys, because they started talking about it, I can talk about it that's influence.
Speaker 1:Is that influence or is that inspiration?
Speaker 2:that's the same.
Speaker 1:It's the same shit oh, should we fight over the definitions?
Speaker 2:it's the same yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, what I like right is I like the idea of sharing my personal experience. I like the idea of to be fair, sharing some of the stuff that works and some of the stuff that doesn't, because I think that's the greatest gift you can give to anyone. Sharing is influence.
Speaker 2:Okay, if you give me a piece of bread and I'm hungry, you've got a piece of bread and you're sharing. Yeah, you've influenced me. You didn't say that, but you showed me that you were willing to share. I was a good person. You gave me a piece of bread. I was hungry. You gave me a piece of bread so I can become stronger. You've influenced me. You've inspired me and influenced me. It's the same. If I then go about my life and then when I've got bread and I see someone else starving, I'm going to be like well, you remember that time Jamie broke off that piece of bread. Yeah, he was a bigger man. Okay, let me break off a piece of bread and give it to the next man.
Speaker 1:I suppose I have just this preference for the word inspiration and discomfort for the word inspiration, yeah, and discomfort with the word influence, but I love the principle and the approach to life in your values.
Speaker 2:Why not be okay, yeah, you're sharing it, but be okay that you're inspiring others, because don't think that everybody maybe has as good values as you, because you've been working, so it's again appreciating your own self. Don't think that everyone out there is really appreciating their own self. Some people need to be inspired. They need to be inspired because they've been sold degeneracy, even degeneracy. Even degeneracy could be, say, for example, a man not talking, a man not sharing, he doesn't share his thoughts, he keeps himself to himself and he doesn't podcast in his life. Yeah, I've been thinking about this. Actually, I'm going to go and have this conversation with my best mate tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that comes from your sharing.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I always felt that I remember actually having quite a conscious thought around 18, 19, 20. I was like, what is the what's the best thing I could do? I went off. I went off to Africa, worked in townships building homes.
Speaker 1:I thought that was great, but I was like I can only do so much in that regard and I recognized that I loved conversations, I loved personal learning, I loved experience and I was like probably the best thing you can do, jamie, is just be quite open about your journey, Be open about the shit that goes wrong as well as the stuff that works for you, and let down your boundary a little bit. Let people in and you know, of course you're going to get a bit of flack and you're going to get a bit of like pushback on that, but for some it might have that freeing effect and if you can share that value with another, that's the greatest gift you can give to help somebody feel free to consider certain thoughts, different thoughts, to have varying conversations other than the obvious and to question their norms and behaviors, off the back of perhaps a little bit of openness on your part.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That could have a lifelong domino effect and positives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course it is. Okay, and what you're saying is You're inspiring to me and I look at anyone who comes into my life as inspiration.
Speaker 1:If I don't think they're inspiring me, I don't want to know yeah, yeah, I'm becoming more and more conscious of those types that when I, when I'm with, I feel I need to put my guard up, I feel I need to tighten my mouth, um and I don't want to drag your values yeah, I don't want to be around that.
Speaker 1:But for those that aren't freeing to me, for those that help me open up, for those that help me feel okay in my stupidity and silliness, like I'm amazed that if I open up about something and one friend might be like, oh jamie, you're such a fucking idiot, and another is like hilarious, god, you've such an openness for life it's.
Speaker 2:But you also need that friend as well to tell you you're a fucking idiot sometimes you know, honestly, I'm not too sure. I think it's good to have both. I or you have a friend who can tell you both that's, that's a really wealthy person if you ever. If you have friends like that, you can say, yeah, you're fucking hilarious, but then also they can go. You know what? Now you're being a fucking idiot beautiful, okay.
Speaker 1:So when I was saying, it's because I was recognizing that there are some trends, that some friends that would have shown up in that vein always, and at a certain point it becomes extinguishing, of course, whereas the ones that can be like oh, I love your openness for life, but like we do need to have a bit of a serious conversation because you are getting a bit out of line, that can be very formative and constructive and yeah, absolutely I want that more uh, open approach in my life, but that guardedness in terms of the company I keep is something that is uh is, let's say, reigning more and more true. As I'm copying on to myself, let's say that we should be protective of ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. You know, that's one of the things I realized living in different places. Because I would say in the UK, because I would say in the UK, I mean a lot of people I know in the UK they live very good lives. They actually do live really good lives, but they can't even see it and when you speak to them their vibration is so low they're complaining so much and they complain not even because maybe their life is very good. It's just because that when they speak into other people that they're around, they have to complain to fit in, because if they say that everything too nice, people are gonna not like them. You know, if they just say, yeah, actually, I'm, uh, today was a happy day, actually I'm happy most days of the week, sorry. So there were people don't want to hear that shit on a prior podcast.
Speaker 1:A lot came up about just the negative impacts of london in particular and I'm curious in your experience, how did you find? Did it serve you or did it negatively impact?
Speaker 2:I I had a great time growing up. School was fantastic. Um, I left the uk when I was like 26. Okay, and I moved to Spain. The negative impact was I was working in the city and I saw a lot of the guys. They're making lots of money yeah, we're making quite good money but their personal lives are terrible. And my personal life is getting terrible. Drinking at lunchtime, big meal at lunchtime, you know, like a big Sunday dinner at lunchtime. Drinks after work, drinks Friday because it's the end of the week, more drinks, and then drinking again end of the week with friends that you didn't see all week. And I was seeing these patterns and I was looking at the guys that were in their 30s. They looked rotten, making lots of money, but they looked rotten Personal life just falling apart.
Speaker 1:Can I share a naive thought that's coming from not a deep understanding, but, let's say, a superficial understanding. So, like, what level of like validity to this is kind of up in the air, but I'm just curious of it. But what I find is that, um, that there is a strong emphasis on keeping up appearances, especially so in britain, like those that own the, the presentation, and even with the whole regal system, where people are vying for, let's say, royal approval and and knighted and that kind of thing. That there's a constant like put your best foot forward, present yourself as well as you could have a step of an upper lip, don't, don't be too open with what's really going on yeah and I found I was.
Speaker 1:I believe the, the divorce stats and the cheating stats in the UK in particular are really, really, really toxic and and I think there's, like I say, almost like a fostering of dishonesty and, because it's so hard to be honest, it's so hard to look at japan and the suicide rates and things like this yeah yeah, honorable, honorable, honorable, honorable.
Speaker 2:All of this trauma and darkness sitting inside because it's supposed to be so honorable, honorable, honorable, honorable. Even honor. You know, being honorable has to be in balance with self.
Speaker 1:You have to be honorable to yourself rather than honorable outside, to everybody else first yeah, yeah, whereas, yeah, that that present yourself as best as we can attitude doesn't well in that kind of feeling that's coming up for me. It doesn't serve. It actually has a lot of real negatives. And the more we can give people the freedom to be themselves, to open up, to share where they're at, the more therapeutic things are and the more people can actually get on with being more true to themselves.
Speaker 2:That's a nice ideal, but it would actually inflict a lot of chaos.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the therapy hotlines will be inundated in a short term or a long term. Now I do, actually, as you said, that I do have to say, like no one does pageantry, no one does performance like they do in the uk and, to be fair, when I think of societal beauty and even going back to your warrior archetype, the image that was coming up for me was the samurai. So I was thinking like, okay, yeah, there's a balance. I can't, can't, almost take this sword and be like that's not good. It serves to a point until it doesn't, it?
Speaker 2:it does so it does serve to a point and, like I said, it has to be in balance. I don't think that. I think that British you know that British mentality stiff upper lip, and all that is not really done by men anymore, you see. So that doesn't really work. The men are just too fragile, in a way too fragile, and there is a sacrifice to running society in a way too fragile and there is a sacrifice To to running society. Someone has to be able to manage and Do the stick up for it and that has to be the men to some degree. But it doesn't mean that the men are supposed to repress the emotions. They're just supposed to master their own emotions and understand who they are, understand their light and their darkness, and then they can have a level of peace. And then, when they give that stiff upper lift to everybody else, everyone else looks at that man and goes, uh, he's mastered himself, and then that gives everybody else peace that they can master themselves. So repression is not a good thing.
Speaker 1:So give me an insight then. How does that man who maintains that beautiful, stoic let's say presentation, where they can literally have a mountain fall on them and still persevere and stride forward he falls in love with?
Speaker 2:himself first okay before. No, he doesn't fall in love. Sorry, I shouldn't say that. He is in love with himself first. That's really the, that's the role model, that's all.
Speaker 1:It is the one who's in love with themselves the most wins, because that's what everyone else really wants deep down so come to terms with whatever issues are coming up inside, face them, face your demons and bring yourself back to a state of love yeah for whatever you've done, for whatever issues have unfolded, for whatever mistakes have been made.
Speaker 1:Make peace with them, make peace with yourself and foster greater love. Yeah, even if in the infancy it's the simplest thing of right, I'm going to nurture myself with healing foods. What is oh for sure? I behaviors, actions, conversations, connections, step by step, little by little, replenish that fire of love inside yourself yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:And obviously some people are going to hate you because they wish they can do it I mean they could, but they're still holding on to so much trauma and because they wish they can do it I mean they could, but they're still holding on to so much trauma and because they wish they can be, they hate it. So they'll hate these people and you even have to be comfortable with that and understand it. That's why they hate. But if they hate, it's because they wish they could.
Speaker 1:And then you don't hate back because you understand that they still want that I'm having an interesting journey with hate at the moment, um in terms of getting hate in some regards and it all.
Speaker 1:But nearly extinguished me to a point, until I recognized like close people, extended some close people, some complete strangers and uh they hate what you stand for, which is a good thing actually not necessarily what I stand for, because that would actually take a level of like engaging with me to to to get to that point, but actually just instinctively can bring up hate as and they can just see it, they can just feel the idea of you and that brings up hate, and that derailed me for a little while to be like, wow, you know, for whatever reason, sometimes people will just see me. I just not like me but that's okay and that's okay.
Speaker 2:But to get to that point of okayness it's quite a journey yeah, but it's understanding that they're seeing something in you that they wish they had, or they're seeing something in you they absolutely disdain, and that's okay, because that means that you're kind of chipping away at you being an individual and it makes other people uncomfortable because they wish that they can in some ways do the same, you see, so it makes them uncomfortable. I know that, for example, when I started to delve more into my african spirituality more, and a lot of my friends were just very stoic and just very they're like oh, mike, well, you're not this kind of guy. You know, you went to private school and we just see you this way. We want this mike and they get afraid of seeing this other mike, the mike that's from the jungle, the mike that understands magic, the mac that understands that they don't know it, they get afraid and they dislike it. But I understand why they dislike it because it's not the person they know. It's so far away from their own personal values. So they might hate on it a little bit and that's okay. I understand.
Speaker 2:And actually to be um, to be a master of nature, one has to have understanding and not hate. You have to be a master of nature, one has to have understanding and not hate. You have to be above the hate, so you have to understand hate and, in fact, there's going to be some things that you may hate yourself, things that you stand against as a man. Man must stand for some things, which means that you're going to stand against some other things, and so a man must clearly define what he loves and what he hates. Yeah, no one likes a man. It's just okay. I'm okay, baby. Oh, there's a girl getting raped over there. Okay, let's just take the camera out and just film it and post it on instagram no yeah, because we'd hate that.
Speaker 1:We've got none, fuck that what I'm recognizing is that the journey of hate for me was there was, let's say, a people-pleasing nature inside me that wanted to, wanted to, let's say in sharing like this, wanted to speak in a way that was infallible, and wanted to show up in a world where everybody liked oh my god.
Speaker 1:And what I recognize now in reflection of that is that actually has such an obvious effect and such a normalizing effect. I recognize I'm like yeah, do you know what? If that's hated on, I get that. Actually, jamie, you can do better. There's a different type of hate then. That comes from going out into the world and having a voice which is magic to some ears and absolutely dreadful to others. Yeah, of course, which is magic to some ears and absolutely dreadful to others, and that's a completely different kind of hate. And what I recognise is there's some hate that I'm like ooh, that's really constructive. Actually, I want to take that in and I want to use that to my own benefit, to push me, to grow me. And then there's other hate that is absolutely nothing to do with me and perhaps actually credit to the definitiveness, let's say, of a character that's developed, in which case some hate is actually a real compliment.
Speaker 2:It's always a compliment. Yeah, it's always a compliment in some ways.
Speaker 1:I'm conscious of timing, but I have to ask one more question. What is magic to you?
Speaker 2:Magic is really nature. It's all magic and it's still a wonder.
Speaker 1:Even if you understand it.
Speaker 2:It's all a wonder the fact that you know you don't see how the plants grow, but there's always photosynthesis happening. That's a process of magic's here. There's a science happening always, even in the unseen. It's like the air is alive. A lot of people don't even realize this air is alive. You know you breathe it in. Why? Because it keeps you alive. So the air must be alive, right? If you uh, breathe in air and you're everything working, able to think and speak and hear, well, the air is the essence of that you know, let's look at the contrast to that.
Speaker 1:If you breathe in certain areas, you'll die. So you can breathe in dead air and it'll have a deadening effect.
Speaker 2:That's not really dead air. That's something. It's another chemical process diseased. Yeah, air mixed with some other chemicals, which is not really air, which is not really original spirit I love.
Speaker 1:There's a certain part of me that really wanted the world to be simple, and when you shared that, I remembered God, jamie. Remember when you realised that water wasn't just water, but there are enormous contrasting qualities of water. You drink the right waters, you'll prosper and grow. You drink the right waters, you'll prosper and grow. You drink the wrong waters, you'll suffer. And I think similarly. Speaking about air, I'm amazed that there's sometimes God in a wild forest, or if you're beside a waterfall or something. The air just has this enlivening effect. But I had to ask that question with regards to magic. But I had to ask that question with regards to magic because it's I, for a long time, have travelled with this feeling inside me and this belief that magic comes to those that believe in it most because nature will respond to you.
Speaker 2:If you see it, if you see that tree's alive, it will respond to you. So everything really can respond to me. I can understand the birds, bees, because I respond to it. I look at it with awareness, as if it's alive just like me, and so it becomes alive just like me, and then we can share information and I understand that that tree probably has more information than me.
Speaker 1:It's probably older than me, actually whereas if you put yourself above it and it beneath you and be graded to the point of nothingness, thinking nothing of pushing it, pulling its bark off, cutting it down, why would it ever share any of that magic with you? Exactly. So, with respect comes so much it comes so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the water thing that you um, you mentioned was really interesting because the last time I was in london in the summer I was out for a jog and I didn't take my cars with me. So I stopped by this pub desperate for some water, and the lady was so nice she okay, I'll give you a glass of water, started drinking the water, spat it out and it was tap water and the water tasted of so many chemicals because obviously it was coming from the Thames and they had to bleach the water so much to make it clean. But it's not clean. No, you can taste the bleach in the damn water. I was like do people drink this?
Speaker 2:so, yeah, all the time I'm like people are so unaware they're just water is water and they're just drinking it and even though I was still first says like no, I can't drink it. In the end, the woman gave me some bottled water.
Speaker 1:You know, bottled mineral water mike, thank you, yeah, thank you for having a chat together, for sharing a bit of your world and, um, do you mind me asking if anybody wants to connect in with you? Uh, following this, what's the best way?
Speaker 2:on instagram now mike of wisdom. So just we go, because I might as well do the plug. My main gig is helping men to attract partners, preferably women, so they can actually have the intention of having a family eventually. It's a self-love game and we have to realize that the essence of life is reproduction. That's what we're doing. We're reproducing now. We're using elements of nature to reproduce. In our businesses we are reproducing and without reproduction we die, and the man who reproduces the most wins. So man has to reproduce in many different areas and the most important area is family and that's where you stay in alignment with nature.
Speaker 2:So the information I get, as you can understand, I can speak to the tree. The tree will tell me reproduction. So I understand tree reproduction and whoever doesn't reproduce will naturally die. Their DNA will die out because they didn't have enough self-love, because that's out of the line with nature. Every other plant, every animal, every bird being, they reproduce. So you have to understand, you have to give respect to nature and yourself, because every time you have that steak on your plate, it's because of reproduction. The cows woke up one day. They're like you know what I don't fancy reproducing no steak. So the ones that go. No, I don't want no kids. Yeah, you're out of alignment with nature and nature will make it harder for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so if somebody is, yeah, you, you, just you. You were finishing that point in terms of a plug and I had asked to connect in. You'd said instagram and you were kind of giving a bit of an insight into your work so you can connect and find me on through my instagram uh handle, which is mike of wisdom, mike of wisdom.
Speaker 2:And uh, yeah, we're helping men change the world lovely mike.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much.