Avoid the Post-Nut Catastrophe in Cuckolding - With Dr. Joe Kort

Explore the emotional intricacies of cuckolding relationships with Dr. Joe Kort in this important episode! Discover invaluable strategies to navigate post-nut regret and the unique vulnerability that can arise in such scenarios. Dr. Kort, a leading expert in sexuality and relationship dynamics, offers profound insights and practical advice on managing emotional pitfalls and improving communication between partners. 

Psychotherapist Joe Kort, PhD, LMSW, is the clinical director and founder of The Center for Relationship and Sexual Health in Royal Oak, Michigan. He is a board-certified clinical sexologist, author of four books, lecturer and facilitator of therapeutic workshops. Throughout his 39 years of private practice, and is the author of 6 books on male sexuality and LGBT issues. Dr. Kort specializes in marital problems and conflicts; mixed orientation marriages; male sexuality and sexual health concerns; “sex addiction,” out-of-control sexual behaviors; sexual identity issues; childhood sexual abuse; LGBTQIA Affirmative Therapy; and Imago Relationship Therapy.

Links:
Dr. Joe Kort - https://joekort.com/
AASECT - https://www.aasect.org/
June 17th Queens Quarters Community Live Chat on Interracial and June 18th Live Pillow Talk Event - https://www.venuscuckoldress.com/events

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Here's what's coming up on the show.

Speaker 2: 0:03

So that's why I think sometimes this is such a hot fantasy, because it's like maybe not conscious, but like this is an opportunity for me to feel and be vulnerable, and it's eroticized. And so then they step into that because it's you're horny, you know you're, it's all hot and everything, but when it's over now you're really vulnerable.

Speaker 1: 0:22

It's real, it's not just eroticized, I mean that was real too, but that was anesthetized right by erotic feelings. This is the Venus Cuckoldris podcast, a place to learn all things cuckolding for the curious for the passionate and for the sexually empowered woman who wants it all.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Let's go.

Speaker 1: 0:59

Hello everybody, welcome to the show. I'm your host, venus. Thank you so much for joining me. Today is a conversation with Dr Jo Cort, and we are going to be talking about something that I think every cuck, every aspiring cuck, every couple or aspiring cuck couple has thought about or gone through and it has affected them in some way. So we are talking about okay, we've all heard about post-nut regret, post-nut clarity, whatever you want to call it. We're going to talk about that when it comes to cuckolding and how to avoid a potential catastrophe when it comes to when the shit gets real, when you actually go through with a cuckolding scenario with your partner and maybe it doesn't go as you thought it would go. So obviously, this is a very important show today. Now, before we get started, I just have a couple of announcements, some events that are coming up that you might want to check out. They are both free events. One is a live chat event in the Queens Quarters community, which is at venuscuckledresscom, and that's going to be on Monday, june 17th, at 1 pm Pacific time. That is going to be a chat about interracial cuckolding. If you want to join in on that and have a listen or join in the chat. You can certainly do so. Just go to venuscuckledresscom. Click on the events page to register. Then, on the day after so, june 18th, at noon Pacific time, I have special guest Confident Cuck joining me for a Pillow Talk live event on Crowdcast. Again, you can register on venuscuckoldresscom. Click on the events page.

Speaker 1: 2:45

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Speaker 1: 3:32

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Speaker 1: 4:02

Now let's jump into today's show with Dr Joe Court. Here we go, all right, joining me on the show. I have Dr Joe Court and, okay, you sent me this profile and I'm like holy shit, there's a lot of letters there and a lot of this sounds very fancy, so I'm going to try and get through it. Dr Joe Court, phd, lmsw, is the clinical director and founder of the Center for Relationship and Sexual Health in Royal Oak, michigan. He's board certified clinical sexologist, author of four books, lecturer and facilitator of therapeutic workshops and throughout his 39 years of private practice and is that, oh, throughout? She see, I fucked it up Throughout his 39 years of private practice and is the author of six books on male sexuality and the LGBT issues. Shit, I'm fucking this up. Dr Kort specializes in marital problems and conflicts, mixed orientation marriages, male sexuality and sexual health concerns, sex addiction out of control, sexual behaviors, sexual identity issues, childhood sexual abuse, lgbtqia, affirmative therapy and I don't know what this last one is Imago, imago, imago. Relationship therapy. Okay, please explain.

Speaker 2: 5:31

Yeah, I love Imago relationship therapy. It's all about the idea that couples meet each other through familiar love, that it's not an accident You're with a partner, that you're with and they both, that both partners contain the positive and negative traits of the primary caretakers who raised you. And so from that premise, imago relationship therapy has a bunch of communication techniques that we use in the, in the room.

Speaker 1: 5:53

Okay, okay, okay, that makes sense. And you are host of a podcast, can't forget. That is called smart sex, smart love, and I was listening or watching actually because you have video episodes as well watching your episode with Dr Kate B I can't pronounce her last name. I know me either. I'm not even going to try because, I'll butch it, but, oh my God, I love her.

Speaker 1: 6:20

I love her, I follow her on Instagram and she has some amazing reels on there. When she speaks she is mic drop Like I'm just like all right, woman Like yes, she's a really good speaker, I know, I agree.

Speaker 1: 6:35

And the way you were talking about this in the episode, the way she delivers, it is just this, very like. It's firm but it's soft, and it's, but it's clear as clear as fuck. I love it, yes. So for those of you listening to this show right now, you have to go check out that episode. Uh, the show is smart sex, smart love and, um, it's with Dr Kate B. She was talking about women reclaiming their sexuality. Wow, she.

Speaker 1: 7:00

There's some real moments in that show where I was just like wow, and when she was explaining to you what it's like to get the dick pics and the anger that comes afterwards, and you were like I've never experienced that.

Speaker 2: 7:12

I was like see, yeah, right, right. Yes, it was very, it's very powerful.

Speaker 1: 7:17

Yeah, great episode. Okay, so today we're going to talk a little bit about the psychology around cuckolding cucks, cuck, angsty feelings, and where this all comes from, kind of thing. You have so much experience with couples who are experiencing issues in their relationships. One of the big challenges that I have with cuckolding that so many people have with cuckolding is that this is a very male driven fantasy. Um, lots of guys are interested in this. They're watching the porn, they're thinking, they're reading the stories, they're researching it online Like it's a sport, like it is really a big thing for a lot of guys and they're so desperate to make this a reality that they would really like to at least, but they're scared.

Speaker 1: 8:10

They're scared because the way they have conflicting feelings a lot of them have conflicting feelings about being into this really challenges their own ideas of what masculinity is and they are conflicted with that.

Speaker 1: 8:24

And also for couples, this can be like a really scary thing, a road to go down and um, and they're kind of just like well, I'm a, I really want this, I would fantasize about this, really want my wife to do this, but I how do I know that this is not going to blow up in my face? How do I know that this is going to be okay and not harm my relationship? These are real legit kind of situations and it makes it makes it really difficult to be a cuck. I'm not going to lie Like I don't know what that feels like to be in that, but I have, I've felt these kinds of things from a cuck in a relationship and I really feel bad for them to have to go through these like. This kind of emotional turmoil of this is so hot and sexy and I really want this and also this is very scary and makes me emotionally feel very vulnerable and insecure. What have you come across in your practice when it comes to couples who are maybe where one of them is going through this kind?

Speaker 2: 9:33

of thing. So sometimes, what you know, sometimes, when you think about the fantasy and you think I'm going to make this a reality, you don't think about those kinds of consequences after you just think this will be a transactional, random, one-time thing, and it turns into something else for people and that's what's unexpected. Unfortunately, people don't think like that. They don't think well, what could come from this on the other side? Because, like you were, we were saying before the show, like there's a post-nut reality to things. When you come down from it and your psychology around it, or or that drove it, or that it's attached to from your past, rears its head. And now you've got that to deal with in addition to what just happened.

Speaker 1: 11:06

Yeah, that's. It's a big question mark that a lot of couples, yeah, they don't really expect it. For women, this is especially challenging because for a lot of women, this is pressure that they feel from their husband to fulfill this fantasy and they're kind of like I don't know, like are you sure you want me to do this? Are you sure you're not going to be jealous? Like is this, are you sure you're going to be okay, and stuff, and and and so they, you know their partner reassures them yeah, yeah, I'll be fine, I'll be fine. This is going to be so hot. I just want it to look like this and this and this and this and be like exactly like my fantasy.

Speaker 1: 11:41

And then she will go and maybe go and try it in real life and then it is really hot. She's seeing her partner, potentially seeing her partner, you know, really turned on. This is amazing, and stuff like that. And then maybe on the drive home, shit goes bad and like he's just upset. But she can feel that he's upset, but he won't necessarily. Either he doesn't know how to relay how he's feeling, or he doesn't want to relay how he's feeling and she's like what did I just do?

Speaker 1: 12:18

I fucked up like I never. I never want to do this again. Yeah, this is such a big pitfall for this kind of relationship. Oh my goodness. Do you have any suggestions or tips about like before making this a reality? For some couples, maybe this should just stay as like bedroom pillow talk and that's it. And for some couples, maybe they have done the work and they are super solid and they can talk about those potential pitfalls beforehand and they decide to go and do it. How do you know if your relationship is like is good enough, solid enough to go down that road?

Speaker 2: 12:57

Well, you don't right. And even if the relationship is, you might not be, or they or your partner might not be, but one thing for sure men struggle with being vulnerable. In general, we don't teach, we teach little boys to turn their backs on vulnerability. So that's why I think sometimes this is such a hot fantasy, because it's like maybe not conscious, but like this is an opportunity for me to feel and be vulnerable and it's eroticized. And so then they step into that because it's you're horny, you're, you're, it's all hot and everything. But when it's over, now you're really vulnerable. It's real. It's not just eroticized. I mean that was real too, but that was anesthetized right by erotic feelings.

Speaker 2: 13:35

So now you've got all kinds of things that may come up that about your history around abuse, uh, it could be something about parentification from a, from a parent where you, you had to take your. There was a triangle between your mother and father being raised. It could be homoerotic and homophobic feelings around this and my wife enjoyed another man. I might have compared myself with this other man. I didn't realize that was going to happen. I mean, there's so many different parts to it that couples need to realize even if you're strong individually you're still strong, but it may have pitfalls.

Speaker 1: 14:10

Yeah, and the other interesting factor about this whole idea around emotional support within a cuckolding relationship is that oftentimes it's the woman who needs some sort of like emotional support afterwards, especially if that's her first time sleeping with someone outside of her marriage. Um, she might feel like, yeah, I'm really going to do this for my husband, I can get into this, this is okay, I'm going to do this, and then afterwards feel that kind of like heavy shame around, feeling slutty or dirty. Or is her husband husband, you know? Is he not going to look at her the same way? Is he going to, you know, disrespect her now, or is this going to be weaponized some time down the road? Um, those are some concerns that I've heard from women. So it's not just guys who need this kind of like emotional support afterwards, but but it's women too.

Speaker 2: 15:06

Yes.

Speaker 1: 15:07

If the if a couple is going through the idea of possibly making cuckolding uh, their fantasy a reality, what are some good conversations that you can think of to try to open that dialogue around? Like you know, what, if, what? If this happens, how are we going to deal with this Kind of some strategies for couples to kind of initiate that conversation beforehand?

Speaker 2: 15:31

Yeah, the first thing I would definitely say is, no matter how many what ifs you make and we can talk about those there might be a bunch of other what ifs you never thought about. So it has to be with the understanding that one of us could drop into an unsafe feeling or unsafe space and no matter how that works, we're not going to judge each other, we're not going to weaponize it against each other. We're going to use it as an opportunity to get past it, get you know, to grow from it in some way. But that can be so hard when you know the act is done, it's happened. You can't undo it, you can't unsee it. But I think beforehand it needs to be really understood.

Speaker 2: 16:06

This is fantasy and, to be clear, one thing that people don't get clear enough around is one wants it to be. They talk about it just being transactional and both of them agree, and then one of them is like well, wait a minute, I think I want a relationship with this person or some kind of ongoing, and it's a surprise to that person, it's a surprise to the other partner and that should be anticipated too. That could end up happening and now you've got that tension between you.

Speaker 1: 16:30

That's actually one of the biggest fears that cucks have is that they will all of a sudden be replaceable and that she'll end up enjoying sex with this other guy, feelings will be caught and he'll end up losing her. It happens, it totally happens out there, and so that's a huge fear for for guys. It was interesting. I did an episode on um. I put out on Twitter like what's the worst part about being a cuck? I did an episode on what the answers were and it was fascinating to me. One of the biggest things that guys really struggled about with being into a cuckold fantasy is having to be so closeted about it, having to keep this so, so secret. It was a big burden on them and it doesn't feel good and I was like that's amazing Cause, like I can't imagine what that would feel like to have to keep that to yourself, like literally tell nobody about that side of you. It's so shitty, um. But yeah, one of the other things was that the the wife would leave him um big fear about that. So I can I can totally understand how something like that happens.

Speaker 1: 17:43

What I've seen with couples some couples who are new is that like he wants this quote, unquote bull the third guy to be just some random guy that they get, you know, pick off the internet or something like that and arrange this hookup. It's just a random guy, like a one night stand kind of thing, and maybe they'll go out for dinner first to meet each other or whatever, but like it's a very casual thing that you're talking about. This needs to be very casual thing and um, but for a lot of the women who I've talked to, when it's their first time, they want somebody who is not a one night stand. They want somebody who they feel safe with, physically and emotionally safe with. They also want to have some sort of like sexual chemistry with this person and and be able to like get to know them and and and maybe some of that has to do with their own you know, insecurities around slut shaming and stuff like that, where they feel like if this is not a one night stand thing, then this is somehow better.

Speaker 1: 18:45

I don't know, but there's this disconnect there, because you've got husbands who want, like this, to be a no strings attached, lots of rules and boundaries set up so that I feel like I'm somewhat in control of the situation. That seems very scary. And then women who are like well, I actually don't want to have a one night stand, I want this to be, you know, something more than that, which is like fucking terrifying for some guys. Do you? Do you think that it's a good idea generally for couples who are going into this maybe for the first time um, you know, meeting up with a bull for the first time is a good idea to set some really clear rules and boundaries straight up.

Speaker 2: 19:30

Yes, oh, absolutely, you know, um, and so, yes, talking to each other about expectations around what this is going to mean for both of us. Because for the guy, sometimes he's just looking at it as a higher level of masturbation. He's not considering what this is going to be like for her and what could come up for her, and she's not a fully a multi-dimensional partner in this, and so because he's so aroused by it and so that needs to be talked about and he needs to be respectful and open to what her feelings are around this. But I want to go back to what you said as far as the vulnerability of the secrecy which contributes to the shame, because men are taught, I mean, cause, what kind of a man would allow his wife to be with another man and be, you know, you're not mad, all of that stuff? We don't see that in the gay community, by the way, gay men can talk about it openly. It's a, it's fun, it's interesting and it's not invisible and it's not secretive.

Speaker 1: 20:24

It's amazing. Okay, we need to take some notes from that, because I read your blog post on um how toxic masculinity is killing men. I was just. I read that. I was like Holy shit, like I'd never. I know that it's harmful and stuff like that and I understand that and you explained that in your post, but how it actually affects how long a person, a man, may live, I never really thought about that.

Speaker 2: 20:55

Yeah, people don't think so sad, it's sad and what's more sad is how we raise boys, um, to be men, and then we forget that we teach boys turn your back on vulnerability, don't have emotions, don't be able to identify your inner life, don't have an inner life, don't share your inner life, all this crap. And then this little boy becomes this man and he's his own target because he doesn't know how to access any of this. So that's why I think, think these, these fantasies are so interesting and curious to these men, because, right, there is an opportunity to have all of the access of all your inner life and to be able to express it. But it's erotic, so it's not real. But it is real and people forget that.

Speaker 2: 21:37

I think that might be a thing that couples should talk about. This is real, this is really going to happen. There's another person entering our relationship. If we have any feelings from our past about anybody who cheated on us or any infidelity, or how we feel about infidelity, even though that's not at all about infidelity, we should still have those conversations and inoculate ourselves from having the negative consequences from it and inoculate ourselves from having the negative consequences from it.

Speaker 1: 22:06

I am a huge fan of therapy. I think everybody should go to therapy, not necessarily because you have something wrong or trauma or something bad has happened or something is problematic in your life or whatever, just to invest in yourself and your relationship.

Speaker 1: 22:20

It is absolutely well worth the money and I have seen a huge difference in the cucks who have been to therapy and the ones who have not and I can imagine within couples who've been married a long time and that the difference that that would make when it comes to stepping into the, you know, enacting these actual fantasies, with all these pitfalls and possible stumbling blocks along the way. So I'm a huge fan of therapy. I absolutely think that it is worthwhile for everyone and obviously, um, you've had a practice for 39 years. That's amazing.

Speaker 1: 23:06

Um so you, you understand, um, but uh, what are some of the things that couples who are thinking about doing this? What are some of the things that would be kind of red flags, as in like, okay, we really need to go to therapy together or separate or whatever, in order to figure out how to do this, or if, even if we should do this oh yeah, I think you know, um, the infidelity piece.

Speaker 2: 23:29

You know in the past if it could feel like anything like that. Uh gets flagged within themselves if they've had any kind of sexual abuse. And some some of the men often don't even know they were sexually abused, even as therapists. We don't. I, I ask people they've been sexually. The men often don't even know they were sexually abused, even as therapists. We don't. I, I ask people if they've been sexually abused. But I don't stop there, because people don't always see it as sexual abuse, whatever happened to them.

Speaker 2: 23:47

So I have to say that somebody much older touch you across the line inappropriately. You know, um, and not to say that sexual abuse, uh is always driving any of these kinky fantasies. We know better now. We know these days that it doesn't drive it any more than it drives vanilla behaviors. But it can get reactivated and the couple has to have. A red flag would be that they didn't have a good communication with each other. So that's why therapy is so helpful, and another red flag is not having any support. I really think if you're going to engage in cuckolding, you should be talking to other people who have also been doing it. If you can find them. Yes, right, yes. It's so important because then you're not isolated, you're not alone and you can ask them what were the pitfalls that they've seen or heard, that they've experienced themselves.

Speaker 1: 24:32

I love that so much and I think that's why there's such a need for community within the cuckolding lifestyle. Within the cuckolding lifestyle, especially for cucks to be able to talk to other cucks and understand that, like these, these outlets were just, they didn't exist before, and luckily we have places now, like the Moan app is really great for discussions around this kind of thing. And then there are there's a brand new podcast that's just literally this week just been released, called Cuck my Life, which is Cuck my Life, hosted by four Cucks together, and it's a great show, and I was just like, finally, yes, we need more Cuck perspectives out there, so we're making progress.

Speaker 1: 25:18

But it's also really important for women to connect with other women who have experience in this kind of relationship dynamic, and so, oh, I love the fact that you brought that up. That is so, so, so important. How does a couple and I'm sure you get this asked all the time how does a couple find a therapist who is open-minded to this, that won't kind of judge them on their sexy fantasies?

Speaker 2: 25:46

Well, this is such an important question and it's so important for people to know that most therapists would shake their head and shake their finger at you for even engaging in this, because they're untrained, they don't understand sexual fantasies or sexual health. And so you, to find the right therapist, you have to go to sometimes there's something called the ASECT, a-a-s-e-c-t it's American Association of Sex Educators, counselors and Therapistsorg, and in that organization, which I belong to, I'm a supervisor, I'm a certified sex therapist. You can find people in your area that would not bat an eye at this, that would understand it and work with you from a sex positive place, because most therapists would see this as pathological and attachment disordered and trauma disordered, and I could go on and on, and so I'm glad you're asking that.

Speaker 1: 26:37

That sucks that.

Speaker 2: 26:41

I used to be one of those therapists. I know, because we're not trained in sex and I don't I'm not attacking therapists, we are. We've been locked out of sexual health forever, so mental health was over here, medical health was over here and sexual health was over there. We all were all separated. Now it's changing, but it's slow.

Speaker 1: 26:57

Oh, my goodness, okay, do you. Before we wrap this up, I absolutely love all of the uh advice that you have given so far. Do you have any final thoughts on what, um, what would be important for couples or even single cucks to to think about when it comes to, when it comes to cuck holding?

Speaker 2: 27:17

Do anything you can to get rid of any kind of shame that you have attached to this and, like said, the guys will be like why don't I want to be the bull, why do I want to be the cuck? As if as if it matters being the cuck can be more powerful than the bull. I mean, there's so much so I think they should educate themselves, reading david lay's book insatiable wives, getting on fet life right and finding a community, um, and just being willing to have as many difficult and sometimes brutal conversations with each other about what's happening, that's, that's the spice of a relationship, no matter what you're going through.

Speaker 1: 27:49

Okay, where can people learn more about you? Listen to your show, read your blog, all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2: 27:56

Yep, everything can be found at my website at um. Yep, everything can be found at my website at Joe court. J O E K O R. Tcom. Um, but any, any of my social media, um Tik TOKs, uh. Instagram, linkedin, facebook is at Dr Joe court. D R J O E K.

Speaker 1: 28:14

O R T. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. I just think this has been absolutely so valuable for for people out there who are listening, so I really appreciate you coming on the show. By the way, a shout out to my helpful Cuck supporter, sean, who recommended you as a guest for the show today. So thank you for that, sean, and thank you, dr Court, for coming on the show.

Speaker 2: 28:36

Thank you and thanks for being doing this work. I think it's great work and thanks, sean, for having me on the show.

Speaker 1: 28:42

Thanks for joining me today. Make sure you go to venuscuckledresscom. That's where you can book a private chat with me, you can check out any cuckolding events that might be happening, and you can even ask a question for the show, as well as, of course, join the Queens Quarters fan club and get all the benefits for that. You can also follow me on instagram, the venus cuckoldris podcast. I haven't been banned there. Well, I have, but not recently. You can also follow me on twitter, or whatever the fuck you want to call it. My handle is at cuckoldris v. That's it for today. We'll see you next time.