Gradual Growth Still Points To Success, With Len Koglin

Jack interviews Nexstar member Len Koglin, the owner of LenAir Air Conditioning & Heating. The two talk about how Koglin transitioned his business after losing a single commercial account. Koglin shares some key lessons; for example, how he and his management team learned to implement new ideas and then stick with them.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:10

Hi, this Jack Tester and welcome to another edition, another episode, another session here of Leadership Lounge. I'm in Saint Paul, Minnesota. It's march and it is snowing pretty bad outside. I'm looking outside at a snow shower, but across from me is Lynn Coughlin from Shreveport, Louisiana. How you doing land? And I'm doing very good yet. You are here to attend a financial management class. It's been great. Good. Well I'm glad they're very first one we've ever had. And uh, you came up here but uh, me and you go way back. I was your business coach back in oh seven when you joined nextdoor, if I remember right. That's great. You know, so we work together one on one for awhile and you've got a good story, Atlanta. And now we're sitting here laughing because we're friends and we're kind of cutting up and making fun of each other. And I, you know, in some of your lessons were quite a few years ago, but they've still relevant today and then you've had some important things going on recently. So I'm gonna tell your story. I want you to tell your story. Is that okay? Sure. Sure. All right. So tell us about, uh, you know, your business a, this, this, this kind of set people of what the businesses like right now. I'll take you back. Okay. Okay. So tell us about when air, right now

Speaker 2: 1:17

we're running 99% of all retail h vac install and service a 1.7 million. Uh, and uh, I think 12 people running six trucks I think. Okay. And good environment, good culture, nice profitable business. You it well, yeah, it's um, it's a big, big difference from when we first joined Nexstar so we're comfortable with it, but we feel like we have a lot of growth just within, you know, our existing customer base and everything that we haven't really got into yet.

Speaker 1: 1:50

Well we're going to come back to today in a minute, but I want to go back in time because this is not, you know, so often in these, in these podcasts I'll do, uh, I'll talk to somebody that's went from two to$30 million and you join nextdoor and what were you doing the, the, the year you join next to how much revenue are you doing? 2.8 million. So you went from 2.8 to 1.7 over a 12 year period. Well done land,

Speaker 2: 2:14

great leadership, great leadership on your part

Speaker 1: 2:17

story here. So tell us about the business. In 2007, you were 2.8 million of, what was it? What was the business light?

Speaker 2: 2:25

Yeah, 2.8 million. 23 employees, somewhat diversified, but uh, almost zero retail installs and service. We did a new construction. We did like commercial. Uh, we did about 1.2 million in mobile home installs where we had several mobile home dealers. It's sold mobile homes and we would put the air conditioner on the mobile home when it was sold. And that's what I started doing in 1980

Speaker 1: 2:54

seventh set of condenser outside of mobile,

Speaker 2: 2:55

a condenser lines set, coil, blower thermostats. They'd still a new mobile

Speaker 1: 3:00

home and then you'd go where it was, where it was delivered and you'd, you'd get them central air.

Speaker 2: 3:05

Yeah. And, and um, there was a lot of variables to that. Some of the mobile homes or you know, 10 miles away and some of them were a hundred miles away. And so it was a lot of windshield time for the installers. And you know, we do two or three per truck a day. So in, you know, in the peak times for us, we're doing 100 a month.

Speaker 1: 3:25

Did they buy that? Did you provide the air conditioner? They buy the air conditioner. You just install it? No, we provided the equipment and the installation and all the materials and the warranty and, all right. You know, so, so basically of your two point$8 million back then, at 1.2 of it was with a dealer or two that were selling mobile homes across northern Louisiana.

Speaker 2: 3:46

It's probably four or five dealers, but we had one big dealer that was about six or$700,000. Um, and um, he was my cashflow account. He paid me every other Friday on time, no questions ask and, and we had his account for 21 years.

Speaker 1: 4:03

All right, so you kind of build your business in and around this, this one person, this one, these couple people really, right.

Speaker 2: 4:08

You know, from the very beginning, I'd never wanted to have all my eggs in one basket. So you know, with, when you have cashflow you can kind of branch out and do other things and try different things. And, and that's what we did. And it grew. And um, so I think the very first year we, we started in 1987, 1988 was my first full year. I think we did 456,000 of revenue your first year. Right. And then, you know, we built up to about 2.8 million and a 1.2 of that was, you know, three or four or five mobile home dealers. Another million was in new constructions and light commercial work. And um, this is about 2.2 million and I know my number in 2009 because that's when everything went crazy. It was about 600,000 and in retail work,

Speaker 1: 4:57

so that's what you were doing 600,000 but when we joined in October, 2007 next door, it pretty much nonexistent. So you just a basically a commercial contractor doing new construction and set and condensers for him. So we got our little bit of momentum in 2008 trying to, you know, switch to this next star system, this backup. So you're a construction contractor. Why did you join nextdoor? Cause we, we never professed to be a construction organization.

Speaker 2: 5:26

Well that's where I, I felt like we were, I, I dunno, just a gut feeling that it seemed like the business was slowing down and the profitability was slowing down and I thought, I really felt like internally that we were going to go out of business at some point, even though we're at 2.8 and we seem to have some cashflow. But my gut was telling me it's not good. Something didn't feel right. It didn't feel right. And so I, and we're struggling like a lot of new construction contractors are that, you know, we're, um, I figured I got to do something if I don't, I feel like I'm going out of business. But getting into next star was considerable commitment, financial commitment. But I thought if I, if I do do it and we go out of business, at least I can say I swung for the fences. Okay. Right, right. But if I don't do it and we'd go out of business, I always have that. What if you don't get it? So we stepped out and made a commitment and it was good. I mean, it was a good committee. We had a little bit of, um, momentum 2008 but we had so much diversity. You really couldn't tell that the retail stuff, was he having an impact on them?

Speaker 1: 6:40

So you had mobile home yet construction, you had a lot going on. And then, you know, I remember now is your business coach back then. Right. And we were, but we weren't that connected when you first joined. Right, right. But I remember I got a phone call from you sent Jack, I need to talk. Something big happened. Yeah. You remember what that big thing was? I do. Tell me what, tell, tell, tell the listeners what happened.

Speaker 2: 7:05

Well, the big event or the call as we talk as we call it, right. Um, was that one mobile home dealer that was six or$700,000 and paid me every other week. He, he called, um, uh, in the middle of 2009 and said, look, I'm going to, I'm going to make a change. And it wasn't that, you know, we weren't servicing and properly or anything, but basically a wholesaler came in and was going to sell him his equipment and then the wholesaler had, uh, kind of a tail truck tailgate, one truck operation that they would sell out. So there was no way I could compete with them. And he knew that and I knew that. And

Speaker 1: 7:47

do you remember getting a phone call and remember what you felt like?

Speaker 2: 7:49

I did. I, you know, I served that, that account for 21 years and I served it out of fear in the fear was if I ever made him mad or have ever made any of his customers mad, then he would quit doing business with us and I would go out of business. Yeah. And so I got that call that my worst fear came true and so I thought I'm going to go out of business. And um, so, uh, I end if it's 2009 there was sessions, yeah. In full swing. I had a perfect storm because, and I do believe, uh, you know, uh, there was some divine appointment by joining Nexstar because we joined at the tail end of 2007 had a little bit of, you know, putting the rubber to the road in 2008. But first of our 2009, we ha we fired our last new construction contractor. So that was about$250,000 out the window. Yeah. Then it happened before the call, before the call. And then also, uh, I had never got this before, but I get a letter in the mail and it's the IRS, they want it. They want to do a, um, audit for the first time in 20 years. So IRS comes in, they audit us. That's 25 grand right there. Okay. It wasn't that we were doing anything wrong, just does cost 25 grand. Yeah. My account like, well, I made a few mistakes and so he, he absorbed 5,000 of that. And so we had another$20,000 commitment. Um, I personally went through a divorce and I had to, I didn't even know about. So it sounds like you're laughing at me. Well, okay. But, so Louisiana is a community, a community property state. So you know, you have to divide up 50, 50. So you gave her half the IRS debt, is that what you're saying? It doesn't work that way, but, um, so, uh, so, uh, I got hit personally and then I get the call. This is a great year for you. It's, it's perfect storm and the recession is happening. Yep. So, um, but, so I get the call and I just, I, I'm like, this is it. This is my worst nightmare. We're going out of business. And at the time I didn't know you were my coach. I called Jim Hamilton because I re I really wasn't connected, weren't, and we were in a structure, we were just kind of, and I want to say there was only like three business coaches at that time. There's been three of us. Yeah. And so, um, so Jim says, Hey, you got a board? Uh, uh, like a little white board or something. I'm like, yeah, we got one of those and he's like, Joe out three days and then start calling. Well, we had no call center. We, we weren't anything like that. And I was like, I don't, I don't even know these customers. They're there. They're new construction customers and mobile home customers and they're all new customers. There's not like, we have any stuff over 10 years old. So we start calling and we start filling up the board. And then I think somehow or another Jim told me, you called Jack Because Jack is your coach. And so I think that's when I called you. And um, so, uh, I'm praying, I'm like, God, this is theirs. This is a start of a new career for me. But, um, I had a friend, he said, he said, Leonard, God will make this a seamless transition. And I was like, okay, I got, I got faith for that. But I don't see that happening. You know, there's kind of like parting the Red Sea for me. It's like it doesn't take a miracle to replace 50 or$60,000 worth of cash flow that I get paid every other Friday. But I still can't tell you how it happened, but it happened seamlessly. Well, it's, it's your credit. I mean, you did reach out to Jim and then we got connected to and yeah, and you got very involved and we started doing p and l reviews. I remember we would get on the phone all the time, did a budget. I think

Speaker 1: 11:54

your first budget ever. I think we've, we put that together. I can remember doing a lot of that works a tier credit you your dog in there. But you know what was interesting is is I want to talk about the transition you had to go through because to this point, you know, you didn't grow up in a retail business. You grew up in a kind of a low price, do it quick hustle. You probably, you never saw the end user. In fact, I, I would imagine when your guys are out installing condensers, there was probably no one even around, right. You know, the house was being placed or put in or whatever. They don't know how that works. But yeah,

Speaker 2: 12:27

yeah, yeah. And it was like that. We never had contact with the end user. Probably didn't have uniforms. Did Ya know, like I don't think we did, you know, we, we might had some tee shirts that said linear on him or something that is not uniform and Louisiana, Louisiana, it's a uniform Tuxedo Louisiana. But do you share it and cut off jeans? That's uniform. That's what you guys had crocs. Crocs around them. But yeah, so we had to make this transition. So the best I guess, analogy I can come up with is I felt like we were kind of like a merchant marine cargo ship. Yup. And so we basically had a commodity that we took from point a to point B. You would unload it, install it, but we never came in contact with the end user. So as we started making this transition, we had to take this merchant cargo ship and turn it into a cruise liner to where you had all this contact with the end user will, none of my crew was trained. They were trained as merchant mariners. Right. An old crusty merchant mariners. And we had to make that shift while the ship was still at sea. We didn't get the benefit of going into dry dock and re fitting the ship and everything.

Speaker 1: 13:43

The, I think what, what, what I, what I find in this story, as you attempted to do this transition, you, you didn't say, I got to start with a whole new team. You wanted to keep your team, didn't you?

Speaker 2: 13:54

I did. We went from like 23 employees to like 11 in almost a day. Okay. In the first part of 2009. Yeah. So, you know, we're, we're trying to Redo this ship underway, but we have 2009 recession, so we're not only doing it underway, but we're doing it in a storm. Yeah. And that, and so we did, we pretty much have the same team now that we had then, um, when I have a few less, but we, I just seen the potential in them and, and we just started training and come in and Nexstar meetings. You know, we made a lot of mistakes and had some setbacks.

Speaker 1: 14:33

What are some that stand out to you? Mistakes. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:37

A lot of them are my mistakes. Well, that's good. That's okay. You know, and I would go to a meeting and I would get great ideas and I would come back and would implement them for about two weeks. I'll tell you back until you left. And you know, I'm thinking these are grown adult, right? Yeah. You know, um, if I tell you, let's do it and we're going to do it this way, you know what I'm thinking, you should, I should check in and another year from now and it should be the exact same way. And so a lot of the mistakes was I just didn't follow through with implementation. And um, I did get ahead of the curve. We had some momentum and some years we would grow and I'm like, I have to ride this wave. I don't want to miss it. And I would hire too soon and some of them wouldn't be right. And you know, and it would cost me some money. We tried some different advertising that, um, caused me some money. We were a little ahead of the curve and it didn't work. And um, you know, so, well the

Speaker 1: 15:41

going back there that I think that's interesting. What you said is you go to what you, cause you were not an unfamiliar face in the next star. You'd, you'd come to business planning workshops, you know, I'd see you at different events and I wasn't at your business coach at all now, but I see her name around, right. You were working with good coaches here next door. So you go to an event and you come home with an idea. Right. And it wouldn't get it. It wouldn't stick. Why didn't it stack lamb? Tell us about that. What, what, what, what was different? What was missing?

Speaker 2: 16:10

Well, it didn't stick. It was me again. Okay. I'm the biggest part of the problem and I just wouldn't stay consistent. You know, I, I'd get distracted by, by the day to day stuff, you know, when, when you go from like 2.8 million and we, we did go back to 1.7 million in 2009 but we kept going backwards until we, as we started kind of calling all this project work and everything, we went to all the way back to almost a million dollars. So at some point I had to kind of get back in the business. Got It. Yeah. You're selling again for the first time maybe. Yeah. And so, so some of that was out of necessity and, and so I would get back in the day to day stuff and the next thing I knew, six months had gone by and I hadn't checked back in. And I expected the process to still be going and, and, and it wouldn't be going. So that would be frustrating and it would set us back. And so, you know, 10 years later

Speaker 1: 17:09

you get discouraged. I did get discouraged. What did, can you tell me a moment what happened that you just said, is this, did you ever think this isn't worth it or this is not, I can't do it? Or did was there, were there moments like that?

Speaker 2: 17:21

Well, I would get discouraged. It might sound silly how I got discouraged, but I'd go to the next our meetings and you know, always have, you know, spotlight and contractors that are just doing wonderful and knocking it out of the park. And I'm thinking, I'm not knocking out of the park, you know, and two years have gone by and three years have gone by and five years are going by and I'm like, I'm not knocking out of the car. There's something I'm missing. You know, so I would be my own worst enemy.

Speaker 1: 17:47

Did that instead of inspiring you? Did that cause you to feel,

Speaker 2: 17:51

but I felt like I felt like I didn't kind of fit in or they were better than me or they were smarter or, or, yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:05

So you know, our intent for sure when we profile contractors is use it as a source of inspiration is idea of what one man can do. So can another. Right, right. It's that whole concept yet. Yet, what I'm hearing from you though is it's sometimes it, it caused a a self image issue almost with yourself, right?

Speaker 2: 18:21

Yeah. It, it did. And it had nothing to do with the way you spotlighted to dealers. It was my own internal insecurities are normal. Yeah. You know, you just beat yourself up, you know, worst enemy.

Speaker 1: 18:34

So what did you think then? That I just can't do it. I'm not good enough. I just felt like, well, maybe that's for them. You know, I kind of was raised that way. There was the haves and the have nots and you weren't on the half side of the railroad. The railroad. Right.

Speaker 2: 18:49

Stayed in my mind, don't you know, I'm 55 years old now and you know, I still struggle sometimes feeling like you're a half not, you know? And so that's fascinating. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:59

So how did you, how have you reconciled that or how have you, because here you are, you're here, right? You got your daughter here. Yeah. You're talented young lady. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:07

We're just getting to where we're starting this 10 year program or tenure, bland for me to kind of exit out maybe when I'm around 65 and so next generation is on board and they're coming together and you know, I think what it is, it's like he like when a person gains weight, or my mom mainly when they gain weight, they can look at yourself in the mirror every single day. And they don't realize that they've gained five pounds, 10 pounds, 20 pounds, until they see a picture of herself. And then they're like, how did that happen? That just happened slowly every single day. Right? And so, you know, coming here this week and you're now, we're visiting, I kinda had one of those in the mirror deals where we were talking in. So my success happened slowly, but it happens so gradually. I didn't realize I was having success. I was continually like beating myself up. I get it now. That's fascinating because you're right, you don't notice it every day, right? Right. It's kind of like when your kids are growing up, you know, all of a sudden they're like six foot tall and you're like, how did that happen? You know? And so I think there's just this gradual growth and success, you know, that came, where did we still have our struggles and we're still growing. Um, but it happened gradually and I didn't see it until like you and I talked, but while I was up here and oh, sudden it's like you kind of just put me in front of the mirror and said, look, this is what you've done, you know, over the last 10 years. So it was good.

Speaker 1: 20:40

Yeah. You know, the, the, I, I can get that. It would be, you know, we, we want our members' stories to be inspiring and you know, somebody that I, there's also another saying that say comparison is the, the vampire of joy. No, it's horrible. You know, and so there's a balance here between, um, get using it as a source of inspiration and, and saying that if he can do what I can do it, you know, versus, you know, he did it. I did and I'm a loser, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:06

And I think it's the glass half full and the glass half empty perspective, right. Where there could be someone sitting at the same table that I was at. It's super meeting and they're like, he did it. I can do it. And I'm sitting next to them, same environment, same here in the same exact thing and going, I don't think I can do it. We haven't been able to do it yet. So I don't know that it's, it's possible. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:29

You know. Um, that's interesting because you know, I look at where you are now, so you, when you join nextdoor, you were doing zero retail work fully a commercial contractor. Yeah. You didn't, you didn't jump out of it one day, but you got to call, you lost 600,000 of it over a couple month period of time. He's been fired. Your commercial contractors. So now you've got to purely residential service replacement business, right. Doing a one point$8 million and growing at a nice year last year. Double digit profit. As I understand it, you know, and doing quite well. And I've looked at, you know, there's 90,000 contractors in North America and that many of them have that same story. Yeah. There's so many people that this kind of live hand to mouth and you know, one truck guys, especially in, I don't want to say this respectfully, but you're not in a huge metro area either. I mean, Shreveport isn't not Minneapolis Saint Paul. No, that's not right. That's not, you know, so I imagine there's a lot of what we've been, Frank's kind words, ignorant contractors running around town. The fair. Yeah. And I used to be on, so you can't, you should look back and see, you know, this is what I'm capable of. Yeah. Um, but that's fascinating. So let's talk about this. You know, there was another thing we talked about this week that I want you to share that

Speaker 3: 22:43

mmm.

Speaker 1: 22:45

There's, there's habits that come in from a different time. Like when you really were, had no money, a low money, little money last week, like last week. But no, seriously, you, you were talking about, um, but we use the church kind of a vestige of a prior period. Can I share that story and, and kind of how you, how I, how are we talked about that?

Speaker 2: 23:08

Sure. Um, you know, we were talking and I'm trying to compare how are my numbers compared to the average Nexstar contractor and Nice, do I have as much market shares they have regardless of my market size. And you just stop me and you say, well, why are you doing this? And I'm like, Whoa, uh, don't really, and you said you're trying to make yourself feel good. Is that why you're doing this? And I'm like,

Speaker 3: 23:37

well,

Speaker 1: 23:37

to rationalize why you're only 1.8 million versus I'm trying to justice,

Speaker 2: 23:41

you know? And so we do the PPC and I see the, and yeah, average and median was like 6 million and 4 million. And I'm like, how do we get there? You know? And so that's what the, you know, but I, you almost be until you stop me and kind of called me out on it. Um, I didn't really realize I was that obsessed with it, but it was, but you know, you're not talking. I think a lot of it came from when we used to do these mobile home dealers, and I'm sure it's like a new construction contractor, but, and they would beat us down. It didn't matter how hard we worked or how great of a service we gave them, or if we're out at nine or 10 o'clock at night, it's some jobs 70 miles away from our shop trying to get someone cool. It didn't never measured up for them. They always beat us down. And I think that's this vestige that you talked about that we did. I still had hanging on me little self esteem thing maybe or something. Yeah, he just beat us down and, and um, but then you look through that Lens and you don't know, you're looking through that Lens. You know, I remember the first time I got glasses and I put the glasses on and everything was so sharp and clear and the colors are wonderful. I didn't know how blurry things were because that was just the lens that I was looking through. Right. And so when you called me out on this, trying to compare myself, you know, and just really trying to work up and make myself feel worthy of being a nexstar member, I didn't really realize how unfold that wasn't a good, just not a healthy perspective. Not a good lens to look through. No, no. I mean you're doing well, you're, you're growing and you know, that's what's important right at the picture. You know, and if I've done my numbers right, because we've went up, we went down, went up, went up town, but the last four or five years we'd been growing, you know, and so, um, I, if I, if I did the number of ride, I, I believe we've had about 13% growth on the average since we joined on the retail side. Yeah. And that's all we are now. So right now on the retail side, and so I'll take 13% growth every year. On average. We had a couple of years, it was like minus 20% good. But I think that was some, just so the economical environment we were in, maybe the political environment where you're a small company to win. If you lose an installation crew at the wrong time that that can, that can do it. Right. So you, you, you know, you're in a volatile state. Will you bring it up? And I lost my install crew in July of this past year. Nice time. Yeah. So it was, you know, we lost them. We had two lead guys. We'd get busy. I'd split them up and we'd run two crews and then in the[inaudible] that'd be just one awesome crew will one left in June and one left in July. And all I had with service guys. And so as I guess we just got to make this happen. And so July was the best month we've ever had since, uh, we joined Nexstar and we didn't have an crew.

Speaker 1: 26:44

Oh really? Yes. And making sure. So what could I have done with that? Jeez. That's awesome man.

Speaker 2: 26:51

Yeah, so it was, it was awesome. The guys came together. It was a great team effort. And, um, so I do believe when, you know, a lot of good stuffs been put in place, but I take it for granted until it was kind of like we had to perform and then it all came together. Yeah. And a lot of that is just all next star stuff.

Speaker 1: 27:15

Oh, that's awesome to hear. Yeah. Oh well done. Yeah, well done. Well let's talk about, you know what I'm seeing right now with you and let's talk about this this quarter. In fact, this first part of the year here in 2019 I remember we had a leadership mastery class and he had two folks from your company and it's, you didn't come, but they did their future leaders in your business. Right. You had a your daughter up here and you're in the back. We will work with doing the class with her on financial management. So you must be someone who's working in the office. Um, so the training you've done, you were in Jacksonville, Florida at some training event, right? I went to Jacksonville,

Speaker 2: 27:50

I did sales training and I took a CSR to do cost center. And then this week also we have, uh, another CSR in Fort Worth doing a call center. And, um, Samantha's there observing on that. And then we'll be at leadership spotlight next week.

Speaker 1: 28:08

Yeah. So I, the, the, the xe Rankin is big. So let's, let's draw the comparison to, to Atlanta in 2009. You're the only person I ever saw. Yes. Right from linear. If I, it was just something registered from linear or it with land rolling in here and you know, affable guy, you know, we, we joke, you know, but now you were senior team and what impact you see. And now as you sending these folks, getting them out of Shreveport on the road, seeing Perry as they say, how's that going?

Speaker 2: 28:37

It's very good. And, and, and, and the light bulbs going off for him, you know, they're, they're bought into it. And, um, you know, we, we started doing the Eos traction program after w whatever year that was, 2016 he has awesome. So, you know, you gotta, you know, do they get it, do they want it and they have the capacity. And right now, the ones that are on the leadership team that we're planning on maybe being the next generation of running the company, they seem to all get it, want it and have the capacity and then they're excited about it. And, and I didn't realize how much I was carrying or how much I was trying to push the business until I started getting some of the right people in the right places. And then it's like, oh wow. It's like, you know, it's like carrying a backpack. You don't realize how heavy that backpack is and to you take it off. And if you wear that backpack for 10 years, you don't know how to walk without it. And so it's feel, it's a lot of relief for me. And then they're excited about it. They have a lot more energy than I of Jack. I'm tired.

Speaker 1: 29:45

Well, 31 year old. They're a little younger. New Land. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2: 29:49

yeah. 31 years. And so I, you know, I was talking to Lisa earlier, I'm ready for some mailbox money that next generation he's to get in place. And I'd like to still get a paycheck and okay. Not Work so much.

Speaker 1: 30:04

I got it. So that's, and that's, that's the plan here. A longterm plan maybe 10 years down the line. I get it though. I get this. That's a nice comparison knowledge that you know it, I think I said this on a prior podcast with another Mary Jane Anderson. In fact I said, you know, if you do the same thing for 30 years, how do you not get burned out? Yeah. And if you, if you operate things the way you operated linear and 2009 you know, with you in the same role, the same questions, the same challenges, the same, you know, you're, you're dealing in the same, that's tough isn't it? I would think that would be really hard to, to not to, to, to bring the same energy. Well see this is a good point because I've, I've told everybody back home, it's like I fight this battle of, of getting my second wind because I'm feeling the growth and I'm feeling the right people getting in the right place. Feel a second wind is the second win. But I also fight, the battle will be in burnout.

Speaker 2: 31:05

And so it's this big, you know, what's the burnout feel? What's that all about? The burned out buildings. I'm just, I'm just exhausted from 31 years of doing the same thing and, and some of the financial struggles and um, you know, personnel struggle.

Speaker 1: 31:22

Do you see though land that, that as you develop this team of people around you now, cause at 1.8 million is still very involved. You have, right? But as you develop this team of people that starts to assume some new responsibilities and then you're, you are, you start to decentralize authority. Isn't that thought inspiring? It's very inspiring. Is, is, does that lighten your backpack? Just the thought that this is what's going on versus, you know, if you thought it had, let me, let me, let me put the question another way. So you thought it had two years and if I said, Lynn, you will be exactly where you are today in two years. That's kind of, it doesn't feel very good. Does it feel good? But if I say, but think about two years, you know, you put another million dollars or so in the top line, you've started to get some real managers doing the, you know, getting excited. You know, now you're, you're a little bit more of a GM now instead of doing the, you know, tell him what the, the installers, where they're going that day. It feels different, doesn't it? It does. And I'm starting to feel that different now, which, and that's where it does feel good. It feels, you know, load is lightened everyday. You know, when I go in and I think it's time, I think it's a good season is a good season, you know, that, right.

Speaker 2: 32:34

Uh, I mean, who wants to do this for like 45 years and like be busting it like that, you know, in an exhausting way. Yeah. Not a physically exhausting me, but you know, you're in the struggle for, you know, 30, 40 years and it never gets better. It would seem like all my labor was in vain. You know? It's like, you know, when you, when you leave a place or that say, after 40 years, I'm like, okay, they got to go in and I can either sell it or they can keep running it. But it'd be nice to look back and go, you know, all that, all that Labor, all those long nights and frustrations and everything they have, they have some benefit because now a whole nother generation right now, they can feed their family. That's right. You know, and so, but as you're going through that, you, you're just like, I'm ready to quit. You know, it's exhausting. You know? I remember in my eighth year I was ready to quit. And my wife at the time, I'm like, I'm done. I can't go no more. And you know, I started when I was 24 I could tell you what a thermostat was and I could tell you what[inaudible] girl was, but I didn't have any experience as far as running a business or technical business or anything. And she said, well, let's just give it until, um, uh, 10 years. And if it's not any better by 10 years, then we'll hang it up. And so, you know, it's been a struggle a long time. You know, at 10 years we were doing better. But you know, so it's not like we just started struggling. Like when we, when we made that transition in 2009, it was a struggle almost from the get go

Speaker 1: 34:06

go. Yeah. I was listening to uh, some John Maxwell material and he said, you know, anything good is always uphill. You don't fly downhill into success. So it has always uphill. Right. And then the idea is if the struggle is creating a result, if you're growing through the struggle, if it's getting to the next level, then it's, then it's kind of an inspiring struggle. Does that make sense? Versus just the morass of the same thing, not feeling like you're making progress. And I know that feeling you've probably had back in 2007, which was, why am I doing all this? I think it's going to go away. And you know that, that I'm really building something that's kind of on a foundation of sand where you know that guy, the mobile home park, it's a better price and it takes it all away from you versus today you've got a very wide diverse customer base, thousands of customers cross report, you know, you can lose one and then be not, it wouldn't be good, but you know, you'll live to fight another day. Does that make sense to you is really, I feel like you've got a brand and a foundation as you learn to grow the other leaders in your business, something exciting happen

Speaker 2: 35:12

came there. Yeah. And that's that vestige deal that, you know, we kind of talked about where it happens so gradual, but my mindset still sometimes if I lose that customer we're going to have some dire consequences or something, you know? So I dunno. It's just your brain is, it's an amazing place, but

Speaker 1: 35:33

it can be no adult supervision. Was I saying, was I saying

Speaker 2: 35:38

no, I get it man. I get it. So that's part of the burnout and is like just old perspectives. Yeah. Old Linear. Not Old. You're 55 and 55 older new Jack. I'm too young to be old. Yeah, I got it. I got a lot of life left in. You do and you're having a good time too. Yeah, it is. It's much better now, just in the last year or three years as much better than it was. So. Well, what I see that, can I share some of this stuff about you? I know you've remarried. It's awesome. You know, and I remember we were in a right in after 2007 or 2008, we were talking to your time with some goals and he said, I want to be married someday. Yeah. Even said it then. Yeah, I remember that. Whenever that was, you know,[inaudible] 10 maybe it was, I had Denise, Denise Swafford was my business coach, and so she came into the shop a couple of times to do the right planning and she writes it down on, she knew I was like dating Phyllis, so she puts it on my action item, marry Phyllis this year. And um, that's pretty direct. Yeah. So, um, you know, it's one of those like, I think ladies like to do that. It's like they want to like match maker kind of thing. But I ended up marrying her that year, so, and Denise was real proud of that. See a married, I know you're, you're a pilot, you fly for fun, you do some stuff there too. Yeah. And right. And I need you some. Do you do some uh, kind of charity flights too? I do. Um, you know, it was, I, I wanted to be a pilot, like when other, I'm 40 and the life was just busy and it didn't work out. So I got to 49 years old and I was like, it's now or never. So learning how to fly a plane at 49 years old. Okay. Maybe not the best idea. I don't know. But it works. You did it. So yeah, I do it as a hobby, but I, uh, I'm involved with angel flights where we transport patients, we provide our plane and our time, our fuel, it doesn't cost the patient anything and we transport them, uh, mainly down to MD Anderson. But everything kind of funnels in that region, like kind of through Louisiana, Texas, MD Anderson Cancer Hospital. Okay. And Houston. So you know, and, and that gives you a different perspective. Can I give you a perspective on that? Sure. So you think back to maybe I'm not accomplishing much. I mean, how many contractors get to do that kind of thing? They have a plane, we've got a pilot's license, get to fly and do some amazingly important work. Right. They have a business and have a life in such a condition that they can do that. You know, I've got to feel good. It does. You know, I don't have the, I don't think about that, that I know you don't. That's why I'm bringing it up. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Cause it, again, it's one of those things, it kind of happened gradually and the next thing you know, you're flying patients and just seemed like the right thing to do. And yeah, it doesn't just like another part of your life and you can take it for granted is what I'm saying. I think, you know, I think it's easy to do that. And I'll say this also, you are a kind of a local celebrity chef, is that right? I'm not, I'm not. But I'm involved with, with a group of guys that we have a nonprofit that we raise money for different mission work around the world through some catering events in the, and we do have some product that we're trying to go retail with now. I it like a fish batter fish meal. We have the Cajun Cajun corn dog, which is probably the only Cajun corn dog on the planet. Heard of such a thing. Yeah. Yeah. And so, uh, yeah, we got some good stuff. And uh, so we're involved in doing that, that kind of work and we're hoping that that takes off. You know, our heart is, we've been all over the world together and we've, we've done construction stuff, you know, projects in different parts of the world. But you know, our, our desire is just to be able to give back and you maybe drill some waterwheels and buy some shoes and clothes and different kinds of things for less fortunate people.

Speaker 1: 39:29

Well, I have heard a great story today, you know, and it's on the next time, you know, you're sitting in a class and next door and we profile and some$30 million company and it's odd. Geez, I couldn't, I get that. Well, you're doing pretty good land regulations doing a lot. You're accomplishing a lot. And I see the team, you bring it through, either jacked up about the future in your business, what's their getting to create with your help at linear and uh, you know, to, to create a great life for themselves. So feel good about that man. Well done. Great. Thank you jack. Well, well done. And I think that this is a good story. I think it's for everybody out there. Sometimes we just look at these big companies and uh, sometimes we need to step back and say, you know, there's, there's people that may be not the at the front of the, of the room, but they're still doing some amazing things and you're one of those people then. So, well done man. Thank you. Well done. I've enjoyed this.

Speaker 2: 40:18

Yeah, it's great. Yeah, it's a blast. This next star deals. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah, it's awesome. And this is the first time I've been to this, the new headquarters and it's great facility and thank you. And I was telling Samantha that back of the office, it's just been, you just get around these guys and yeah, it's going to rub off on you. Yeah. You know, so. Well, thank you. So after that, uh, we appreciate you. A lot. Grow has rubbed off on me in the last three days. Good stuff

Speaker 1: 40:43

the other way too. So thank you. We sure appreciate safe travels. It looks like he might be a little delayed. Your flight's at the snow today, but, uh, thank you for coming. And, uh, thank you all for listening to this very special. I've really enjoyed this, this latest episode of Leadership Lounges, Jack Tester with the now famous land cogland and we'll catch you next time. Thanks so much.