The Lonely View Of Success, With Wyatt Hepworth

Jack interviews Wyatt Hepworth, owner of Any Hour Electric, Plumbing, Heating and Air. Any Hour's revenue increased from $1.5 million to $40 million over 10 years. The company employs over 225 technicians. The two discuss Hepworth's career arc, and how he realized that if he wanted to follow in his father's footsteps, he needed to find a better business model – one that included a team leadership approach. 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

Hi, this is Jack Test. You're welcome to another episode here of Leadership Lounge. I'm in Saint Paul, Minnesota. We have a recruiting and retention class going on and one of our observers is, I'm going to call them current day next, our royalty. Why Hepworth how you doing? Doing well, thanks jet. You've brought a bunch of your team here and you're in the back of the class observing and uh, you know, we have profiled your business on a handful of occasions here at Nexstar. You really are a, a modern day success story in this industry. So tell us a little bit about, uh, any, our electric plumbing, heating and air today, where it's located, how many employees, your revenues, those kinds of things.

Speaker 2: 0:47

Uh, yeah, so we're at 225, 226 to be exact employee count, but who's counting? Right. And we, uh, and we're located in Orem, Utah, which is in Salt Lake City. Yeah. I've owned the business for 24 years. So, uh, we've been in Nexstar, I think we've been here. What, about nine years now? There's, I can't remember now. I think it's 10 years younger, but I think it was 10 years actually. Yeah. Yup. All right. And, and when we started next star, we actually had a new construction side. We have completely gotten rid of all the new construction, but, and we had a one point about a 1.51 point$6 million electrical service side. We were only doing a hundred percent electrical at that time. And a in between just the last 10 years, we've gotten rid of the new construction side and we've taken it from basically 1.52 we're in the 40 million range now. Um, we're, we're and continue to grow. So it's great. Well, you know, I don't know that there's been, uh, a company that I'm aware of that has had that right

Speaker 1: 1:48

kind of success. So congratulations Wyatt. Well, thank you. That's awesome. And so when I saw you at registered for this class, I said this is an awesome opportunity to, to hear a little bit more about your story and how you got to, to where you are. And one of the things that I've noticed, um, as I've observed you at events and of course we've spent some time together, is you have got a passion for Your Business, a passion for this industry that I haven't seen often, if at all. And I wanted to lean into that a little bit more because you're just not in your business as an owner. You're, it, this seems to be something bigger than, than why it in your back pocket. Right? So I want to delve into that if that's okay and then we'll see where it goes. Is that fair? Yeah. So just as a forewarning here, I asked why it, about doing this podcast early this morning. We prepped for this for about five minutes. Just a general conversation. So I'm not sure where this will go, but, uh, so let's talk about what w let's talk about this source of this passion. What do you know, tell us about maybe some of where that comes from. Yeah, so I grew up, uh, scene.

Speaker 2: 2:57

My Dad and my grandfather were electricians. They owned a company and I saw them, I saw them working day in, day in, day in, day out trying to make living. I saw them going through feast and famine. I saw my dad with cash sometimes and sometimes we were broke. We were sometimes there was absolutely no food. Um, it was, it was tough at times. And I saw him doing a lot of work for, for trade, um, a lot of, lot of things that way and, and, uh, but I always loved the trades. I always was, was happy to be in the trades. My Dad always said, don't go into the traits, but, but, but, but yet you worked with them in your business. I did. I worked with him and, and I love working with my hands. So I, I knew I wanted to do it. So I said you had, yeah. So you, you didn't see a business model like hardly anyone saw back then of, of wealth and abundance through the trades. You just liked the work itself, correct? Yup. Yeah. All right. So, um, so certainly you're a third generation electrician, but the first two generations work very hard. We're very dedicated to the trade, but live kind of hand to mouth. Yes. Is that fair? That is true. Okay. So, um, so that's where you were, what happened along the way, you know, so you had this passion for the trade. Um, tell us about the business journey you've been on, up to maybe with a point where you joined Nexstar and those talk about it today cause you still got something special going on. Why, you know, yeah. So talk about that. Yes. Great. So, yeah, so, so, uh, before next star, uh, we, uh, we, we, we thought we had to create all this by ourselves. We thought we had, we, we, we, we thought there was something cool about the trades and we, we wanted to bring crafts from him back into the industry. We felt like that had gotten lost. Okay. I didn't know there were organized organizations like this. Yeah. And, uh, we, we, uh, we're trying to build it from scratch. So we, I was getting together the right team with me, trying to get the right people that could do, were ambitious and wanted to work hard. I like hard work, so I surround myself with very hard workers. Um, I like to, uh, to, uh, to see things happen, get done. So we surround ourselves with those people. And then we, uh, found out about nextdoor. We joined Nexstar and we, uh, we had accumulated about 60 employees and new construction and an s and a service side. And we were really trying to build the service side because we felt like the new construction was only as good as a, it was only as good as our contractors. And then we went and heard Frank Blau at the next star, not Frank Viola. Uh, Brian[inaudible], Brian Bolio who though? Yeah, that's economist at the next star event. And uh, he said, he said that we were going to be going through a bad recession and he says, 2008. He said, your people, we just joined next door. He said, your people are going to be, you're going to depend on your people more than you're ever going to have to depend on them. And, uh, and he said, uh, and that, that resignated and uh, I believed him. And uh, and that's when we realized we had to get rid of the new construction side, which was actually a profitable side of our business.

Speaker 1: 6:04

Well, it's interesting. I remember that, that presentation, it was in the fall of 2008 and we brought Brian, it was in Seattle. And uh, usually Brian is very easy. He's a noted speaker and economist. And uh, he brought a very dark message that day about what was happening, what was going to happen because this is right after Lehman had bankrupted before the real crash. You know, this was in September of Oh eight. And the real, you know, the depth of the stock market dip was March of Oh nine. So this was in, remember his message was, you know, there's going to be a lot of hurting people and you're really going to, in constructions going away and all this other stuff. So you took heed to that. Oh, I believed him. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. So that was Kinda the, the start. So you made a decision to exit new construction. Yes. Do a quickly, slowly what happened?

Speaker 2: 6:52

Uh, we did it, we did it over a three year period. He ended up getting stiffed with over a million dollars. Not paid to us. Cause you're getting out of the business and they didn't have to pay anymore. Correct. I wish we would've just done it right then. I didn't have, I didn't dare to do it right. I did most, I did most of it, but I cared about those people and so we actually sucked a lot of those people into our other sizes of the business. Cause we started up all of the trades at that point. So I guess hindsight, we lost a lot of money, but I saved a lot of friendships and a lot of people. So I would do it again actually. So the idea was, is that your last maybe more money by delighting three years, but you kept a lot of great people employed. Yes. Then moved over to the service side of any outcome into the drain side. Moved him into the tuneup, upside the heating and air side. They had to retrain him, spend a lot of money, return train guys. But these were forming guys that were making 25, 30 bucks an hour for me. And they took, I had him take Pakos

Speaker 1: 7:44

let's talk about that cause that's bizarre. All right. It's just for a second though, because what you're telling me is you had electricians, right? You are your new construction work with electrical work. Yes. All right. So these guys are out there running wire and houses or wherever and, and I guess in some respects to the economy was starting to falter so they maybe didn't think they could get a job someplace else and they decided to stay with you. But it's more than that. Tell me about that.

Speaker 2: 8:10

Yeah. So, uh, so I painted the picture of the vision of what we're building. They saw we were the biggest new construction residential company in the State of Utah and they believed what I was saying. And, uh, they were willing to take a pay cut, some of them making 30 bucks an hour, taking a pay cut down to, to, to as little as some guys took as low as 12 others, as little as 15. And uh, so cutting their pain about half. And they were willing to do that, to stay with us and literally learn a whole brand new trade. And just because they believed in the vision and they knew that I, I, what did you tell them? What was the vision you said? I let them know I work hard and they know it. They saw it. They didn't, I didn't have to say it. They had, they, they, they saw it. Plus I said it. So, yeah. So they knew I worked hard. And uh, would you rather work for someone that works hard and works right alongside you or go work for somebody else that you know, let's you do the job all by yourself and kind of walks away and doesn't really care. And they're always on vacation. They knew I don't, back then, I didn't take vacations. I didn't, I didn't go do fun stuff. I would just, I'm all about work. I take vacations here, there now, but I'm definitely good to hear. Definitely when I'm working, I'm working and they know I, I'll put in 80 hour weeks so.

Speaker 1: 9:18

Okay. So they saw you doing that and that was inspiring to them and they knew that that if they attach themselves to your business and the company you were building, that it would ultimately be successful.

Speaker 2: 9:30

Yes, and it's better than that. We actually saw the guy as we were doing work without on the different, the other sub contractors, the plumbers, the heating and air guys. And we were able to get those guys, I want to shut their businesses down and come into our business and uh, and uh, bring their licensing over. And we didn't pay him money for their business. They just wanted to join us. They're contractors weren't paying. It was really bad in Utah. It was really, really bad for the new construction market in Utah.

Speaker 1: 9:55

Oh eight or nine. It was a lot of refugees come out of that business and then they found you because they knew you're a quality company going to build something special. Yeah,

Speaker 2: 10:05

we helped, we helped negotiate if they, if the owner owned a whole bunch of money to the Oda, a whole bunch of money to us, Co two is uh, to a supplier. I would go in and help them renegotiate terms, had helped him negotiate how to pay it back. I would help him negotiate a fraction of the pay if he could pay it in certain amount of time so that he could have so he could get through that burden. I went and negotiated with all the phone books. I went and negotiated with everybody I could negotiate with a for marketing. I let them know, hey, we're going to pay the bill. Um, but uh, this, you know, we're going to do this much advertisement with you. And we, we just got prices way, way, way, way, way down. And uh, and that's how we, that's how we built the company through the recession. And we pulled in some of the greatest people I've ever met, some of my greatest friends from, uh, from that economy. That economy actually became a blessing for so many of us because we actually looked at it that way and we were willing to, to work hard and work harder than everybody else around us was what we, we feel.

Speaker 1: 11:00

That's awesome. That's an awesome story. I heard somebody say once, never waste a good crisis. And uh, as a, you know, I hate to take advantage of something that someone's detriment, but what you said is instead of looking at what you didn't get through the economy, which was, you know, tough consumer spending, you know, you had to exit in new construction. You know, there's a lot of things that went bad for people. You did use it as an opportunity right. To, to, to really jumpstart any hour one I'm hearing. Yes, correct. You know, you became a magnet for a lot of these intercourse. You working in the trade in construction, you knew who the good plumbers were in the new good air conditioning companies. You had, you knew who the guys that had the work ethic and had the right integrity and all the other things that you, that I know you have at any hour. That's awesome. I didn't know this story and I, I've talked to you a lot. You know, I did. I didn't know that. So, so let's talk about, um, let's go back now. Um, and they don't want to go forward. So I mentioned at the beginning of this that you have a passion and an energy as an owner of a business that I don't often see. So let's, let's get into that a little bit more. What is it, why it, why do you, why do you do what you do with the way you do it given the fact that you're extraordinarily successful now as a business?

Speaker 3: 12:22

Okay.

Speaker 2: 12:23

When I had new construction,

Speaker 3: 12:27

okay,

Speaker 2: 12:27

the name of the game was be the lowest bidder and pay your people as absolute little as you possibly could. Okay? That's how you made your profit. Okay. I've made enough money. I, I came from having nothing. Yup. Growing up and I had made enough money. By the time I actually just so you know, joined Nexstar that I actually could have retired and never worked again. My wife and I actually had that conversation, should you just walk away from your new construction business and never work again and basically do whatever, you know? Yeah. And uh, and all these people in this group, in these groups that we were looking at were like, what's your exit strategy? And I'm thinking, what the heck are you talking about? I mean, I'm 35 years old. Why are you guys trying to exit at 40 50 years old and your businesses? And I just thought it was really weird and I talked to my wife and I was like, I don't want to exit because you just going to have to do investments in property and everything else and watch that. It's, everything's a, if you're going to make money doing with your money, it's a job still and there's still a risk of economy and we hadn't gone through the recession. You so anyway, so anyway, we decided to put all the, keep all the money in the business and keep pushing it forward. And Anyway, what uh, what, what I didn't like about new construction and all that is basically I succeeded in my people didn't. So, okay. So I'm passionate about my people succeed and I saw my grandfather die, uh, Diana, little teeny tiny trailer and with nothing to his name, him and my grandma. And that just makes me, makes me real sad because he worked his guts off his whole life. My Dad has worked his whole life in construction. Yup. And, uh, and uh, I just, I want to, I, it's not about me at this point. It's about my employees. So it's about putting the money back into them, helping them succeed. And that makes, that's my, that's my success. Because when you're looking around and you're top of the mountain and you're the only one successful, that's a very lonely road. And that's not me. I'm, I'm the guy that wants to be up in the top of the mountain with everybody else. So I work with my friends. I love the people I work with and my, my ultimate, absolute number one priority each day as it helped them be successful. Because when they're successful, I'm successful. When they're successful, that that is when I'm happy that that's their tradesmen. We're, we're, we're becoming, we're bringing the tradesmen and the, and the, and the real self respect back into the industry and it makes me feel like I'm vindicating my grandfather and my dad

Speaker 1: 14:35

love it. That is awesome. Why it as a great story. That is a great story. So that, that's the, the wellspring of your energy. Yes. Every day. Which is just an, uh, that's what gets me going here. I, you know, I, you know, we've spent time together. I've been to your business. I went your peer group, um, we've been dead, had the pleasure of you and your management team doing a ATV ride over this mountain range, right? Yes. Which was an awesome experience. So just, just, I'm to, I want to share that because it was so cool. So, uh, I came out a day early and then you said, Jack, we're going to go on a management team retreat or a meeting or whatever. And what we did is we got like 10 ATVs and we went on one side of this mountain range and then we all took off. And I, cause I had driven maybe a mile total and an ATV in my life. Now I'm going over these mountains and rocks and you guys are flying in there. You did. Well, it was terrified then. But what was cool is that about every mile or so you'd stop or somebody, whoever the lead dog was stopped. And we huddle up and we'd sit and talk about business. We talk about leadership, we talk about at that time you, you were going through a lot of the color code stuff and, and which is kind of a core motives assessment. And so we were reflecting on that and about business. And then we'd laugh and we'd get back on the ATVs and off we'd go again and we'd go up and see some other vista and we'd stop. And I thought it was an awesome day. And, uh, what you did is you blended this amazing activity, fun, but there was definitely a, an intent to what you're doing. You know, there was a purpose to it as building leadership skills, introducing media team, you know, et cetera. Um, and I think as I had just heard you talk about these people are my friends. Um, I think that what I experienced was probably what you do, right? Yes. That's very cool. That's very cool. So I kind of get the energy today. Um, and how do you, all right, how do I, how do I say this? Um, how do you cause cause I've met your team white and they're awesome people, right? They love you. They love your business. But I haven't met all 263 of them or the number was two 26 to 26. All right, okay. Two 26. But who's counting? Right. Um, but I got to believe that some of them don't always appreciate you and appreciate any hour and are negative. How do you keep the positive attitude when, I know you face those words, people leaving, people saying things that you, whatever it is, how do you maintain that? Because it's easy to get cynical, right? Yes. Tell me about it.

Speaker 2: 17:26

We've found the best way to retain our, our to, to have people actually know how much we're doing behind the scenes for them is to get them out to next trainings. So, no, I didn't know this is old. I wasn't fishing. I know. So, uh, I haven't met, I, we kind of went through a hole a year, a year, a year, year, and a few months where we actually took everybody out. Okay. And this was couple of years, about a year and a half ago going away to nextdoor, everyone away doing nexstar event. Yeah. And we have an agreement in our business, um, where bay basically, even though I'm the president of the company, I can move throughout the whole entire company. And we now have a recruiter. We've, we've, uh, uh, Dustin van Norman, who's used to own his own business, who've actually been with me. I've known him since he was 16. He's now 30, 37 years old. Anyway. Yeah. But anyway, he's, uh, he, uh, he worked alongside me. He had another company doing heating and air. Why? I had an electric company and then he's, he's one of them actually joined us. But anyway, he's our full time recruiter now. Been with my company for uh, quite a few years. But anyway, um, so, so he's how here the training with me. But anyway, he's a so, so to answer that is, is he's now, I've been the recruiter up till this point, 40 plus million and now he is helping me with that and he's going to be taken over. But anyway, what we, what we have in agreement with all of our staff is, is no matter is recruiting is the most important part of our business. It's 100% because retention retention happens from how someone got recruited. Um, because if we only hire the right people and we do our due diligence before hiring them, they're going to be easy to retain because they were the right people. I got hired it so, so, so how do we keep people in a good morale and insular, feeling appreciated? Well, it starts with the recruiting, so it's absolutely starts when we recruit them into the business, they understand. We show them the, the, the parties we do, we show them all the events we do, we show them all that. So they're like, holy cow. If they're like, I don't need that. They could be someone that can be a high performer and make us ton of money. I'm not hiring that guy. So anyway, I don't, I don't care. I want someone that wants to be part of my team. So it starts with the recruiting and that they, are they going to appreciate things we do then? Does that make sense? Because it's not going to appreciate those things. I don't want him in the business. Got It. Got It. Because they're just about themselves. Then those guys will go work somewhere else and there'll be their highest performer, but they're also going to take the morale down in that company. That's why our retention's 90 so you, so you work really hard on fit when you hire. Yes. Right? Yes. And making sure that people, um, and you of course you want referrals. So people are referring in people that yes, I would rather turn down a hundred calls a day and I'm not joking a hundred. I'd rather turn down tons and tons of calls then to pull in the wrong people because to run those calls that you're dropping. Yeah, exactly. So we're bringing the right people that are going to appreciate all the things we're doing. And do they see everything we do. Do they get into that mode where they're not feeling good about us? Absolutely. But we, but we, we get them out to an star training. We go out, we spend time with them. It's Dustin or I or bread or Jeremy, uh, the owners or our training manager, Brett or Dustin, our recruiting manager. It's one of us four out of the training with every one of those guys. Up till now it's been Jeremy or I out to all the trainings except for we've bread I think come to one or two without us. So, um, and then, uh, and then in those, in those trainings were meeting with the guys at night. We're talking about what we're doing. They were like, oh, I didn't know you did that. Why? They, they know why it's behind the scenes still working on it. I let them know what I'm doing. I'm transparent. I let them know I answering any other questions. I'm not afraid of him because I know I'm working hard. So what do I have to be afraid of? Right. And a s one of the guys, we just promoted Shane into our service manager position. He used to own his own business. Uh, he actually went to one of Keith's trainings down in Florida. Um, I believe it was in 2016 and he said when he was on that trip, he said he was actually really highly, um, I don't know if he's going to hear this anyway. No, no, no, he's she, Shane. But anyway, I, Shane, Shane, if you hear it, hey, how are you? But anyway, Shane, you let me saying, let me know. He said why on that trip he had, because of our conversations at night at Keith's training, he realized he does not want to go start his own business again. And that's when he decided he was both feet back in and he was going to continue working with me and he's been with us now six years and he just got promoted to our service, our electrical service manager just actually in the last couple of weeks. Great Story. Anyway, yeah. So these trips actually help us find our future leaders. These trips help us help those guys realize how much we actually care about them because we're, we're, we're buying their food. There's no hold back. I'm not saying you have to stay with me for six months for going on this to pay it back or a year. Literally we're just all expenses paid, no strings attached. Let's go have a trip. Less enjoy each other and they just can't believe I don't have any strings attached.

Speaker 1: 22:20

That's cool. So well it just to speak of you. There was a year, maybe three years ago while you were doing, and I bet you were, you were here 12 times in a year, maybe 10. I don't know what it was, but it was like other places but, but every time there was a training event here, there'd be at any hour guy and if there's any are man or woman here, there'd be, there'd be Wyatt observing a class and meeting them at breaks and take them to dinner, her, him or her to dinner and you know, really developing them as a, uh, a great employee and as an honoring them as an individual. Right. So what I hear though that my original question was how do you not get cynical? And what you do is, is you're very intentional on how you recruit and onboard people so that, that the chance of having that negative person that's unaligned that can take the energy out of Ya is less likely to, to show up there at anyhow. Yes, correct.

Speaker 2: 23:14

Fair. Yeah. Some people might say, oh, we're a bigger company so we can get people. And I'm letting you know, just a few years ago, I wasn't a big company and the p, if you talk to our people, they'll say why? It kept calling me. He kept texting me. He kept coming, coming to me saying, Hey, I've got some gray hair. Please come meet with me. And I would, I would go to there, I would go, go find them. I would go to what's called flocking Wyatt stock. And I'd go down to go meet him at nine o'clock. I driven as far as, uh, five hours away to be able to drive right to someone's house, meet with them and their wife, take them to dinner. And a, that's just, I'm willing to do, to

Speaker 1: 23:46

bring in the right people. So you really did. So you're as the, as the owner and the CEO of your business, your primary responsibility has been more about a pot talent development, talent acquisition. And I mean that, not like it's an asset you're getting, but done the people side of your business. That's really where you're throwing yourself. Yes. Is that fair? Yeah. It's all about the people. And,

Speaker 2: 24:08

and I'd say our processes, to be fully honest with our process of processes had been the weak side of our business. It's all been about the people and then the people build our processes. But our process is really have not been able to keep up with the people. But I really believe in good to great, good to great talks about hire the right people.

Speaker 1: 24:24

Well, and they'll build it for you. Yeah. And that's what we do hire first, right. They say in that book, right? Yeah. You know, and get good people and then stuff you can think of that you build the processes and help you build everything. The process is a little bit behind right now. They're always behind. Yeah. But then again, we're, we've been doubling every two years, so yeah. They're going to be behind the chapter. Figure that out. Yeah. Well that's awesome. That's awesome. Well, um, w what has been, yes, you've went from, uh, you know, this smaller service business back around the recession to now a$40 million business. You know, I know that, that a lot of it's been around, uh, you know, the people side and getting the right people and the right seats. And I, I'm not minimizing that, but I know there's other things too, you know. What else have you really focused on other than getting as much good people as you can in the business? What else? What else has been a focus for Ui? Well, keeping those people. Okay.

Speaker 2: 25:24

Seriously, it's all about getting and keeping the right people. So, uh, I spent a lot of time on, on the structure who to promote, who to put wire. Here we are a training, uh, figuring out who's, who's, who are, we have a two, two guys per each of the trades that are trainers. Um, we have a service manager now for each of the trade finally. And so, uh, and so, uh, putting those guys in the right spot, getting them the training, helping them feel empowered. A guy that's these, these, all these people have been promoted from within. So helping them go from the mentality of a technician to all of a sudden feeling empowered. Okay. I can actually make decisions. So that's really, again about, it's, it's about, I don't have a bloopers on my desk. I, I am just Jeremy and I are always meeting and Jeremy is joining me as my partner. Yes. Jeremy Hansen, Hansen. He's my partner. He actually actually acts as the GM for the company and uh, all we do is meet people and help, help, help, help them know how empowered they are and help answer the questions and, and help

Speaker 1: 26:27

some succeed. Really. Why? I love what you said, there's no paper on your desk, so you're not sitting there pouring over income statements and looking at, you know, not that you don't do that, but I mean that's not the first order of business for Wyatt.

Speaker 2: 26:38

We have Lincoln to do that. So you got to CFOs who was all over that stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:44

Um, but so what you've been, you, when I hear you saying is that it's not just about bringing great people in, but you're really trying to develop their critical thinking skills to go from either a tradesman or a lower level manager to a more elevated manager. Cause you, you believe very much in a kind of a promotion from within philosophy, don't you? We do. Yeah. So 99% of our managers came from within. Yeah. I think only one of them came from without Lincoln. Lincoln. Yup. He's the outlier. I could probably listen to this too. So that's awesome. So you spend your time on, on talent acquisition, um, make sure the culture is right. And then you spend a lot of time on leadership development and people development. Right. And what are some of the things you do there?

Speaker 2: 27:27

Yeah, so every week we have, right now, so we have, uh, we have our, okay, so to continue growing, uh, we believe we need to be okay. Can, can I, who's all going to hear this? All right. There's a guy needs an open, there's a guy named Jim Abrams. He, oh, he said he's a great man. The did a lot for the heating and air industry. But there's one thing he said that I really didn't like and that is he said the hardest thing about growing his business was knowing that the people around them, we're not going to be the people that we're going to be with him as he continued growing because he was going to outgrow him, the business was going to outgrow them. And that really bothers me because I looked around and all my friends and I'm like, I don't, I don't want to grow this to outgrow my, my people. So anyway, so I've taken a different philosophy is, and that is I'm going to grow my people, but I'm not just growing my people. I'm growing them all the way down. Uh, all the way through the rings. So up the ranks, down in rings, however you want to say it. So, so what we do is we have a management, we have an executive management training once a week where we are, where we're reading a book and we're reading it very, very slowly. And it's a book like 21 irrefutable laws of leadership is the one we're reading. And we go through it very slowly and we discussed, we, we just read a little bit of it and we discuss our business. We discussed how does this affect us and, and, and how do we, that book talks about being the type of leader. Basically if you, if your people outgrow you, they're going to go find somewhere else. So grow you as a leader. Yeah. So we have to get our executive team to the level that they're not, they've there people can have a girl, but then we also have books that were then these, these exact executives run managers. Now we've gotten to the size where we have managers running managers or yeah, managing managers. So we have the next level and they're reading books more like good to great and traction and things like that. More on a level where they're not judging whether I'm outgrowing my leader or not, but where they're trying to be the good to great leader or where they're trying to run a traction kind of a business. Which traction. He was a big mentor of ag. He loves good to great. And he really, really, really, actually dove deeper into factual things. Took a degree. So then we have our next level of managers, which are our supervisors, assistant managers are trainers that are in the field, all that whole group. And we're doing a meeting with them once a week and we're paying them for these meetings. So, so it's expensive as wheat. Who's who? So Jeremy actually leads those meetings. Okay. All right. And, uh, we, we only have that group in there, so they don't even have the direct manager in there. Okay. So they're in that they can freely discuss what's going on. And Jeremy is a great, great man and he's really great at getting, making organization out of chaos. Um, and he, uh, on the color code, he is a, he is of the red blue and I am the blue red. So together we are, we're both definitely opposite, but yet we want the same thing. And, and, uh, but he, uh, he's really good at leat leading great leader and so and so, so he's leading those groups and helping, helping us actually develop our next level leadership so that when, you know, we're hoping to be 45, 50 w we probably won't hit the 50 this year. But anyway, we're going to be about 45 to 48 this year, a million and then, but literally within the next three years, I'd like to be CNS hit, hit the hundred million mark. And that might sound crazy to some people, but again, we've been doubling every two years. If you'd have told people that when you're a 1.8 million that you are going to be 45 million in eight years, they'd probably say crazy. Correct. So the fact that you're going to two x where you are, I don't think that's crazy cool. I think it's a big goal. And to promote from within, we better have stretched those leaders and created those leaders from within because they're not just going to get that by doing their job. They're going to get it by doing their job, but they're also going to get it by US training them, getting them out to Nexstar training. So we, we actually, so I'm out here with five of my managers out here at this next, our training, but seriously, we're, so we just talked the other day and we're, we're a jack, didn't know this, but anyway, we're back in it where we want to get every single person through student Nexstar again over the next year and a half. So that's 226 but again doubling every other year, every other year. So basically we're going to be up to 300 employees by the time we actually get everybody through over the next year and a half. So I believe that's going to help us continue to retain, help them see all the things we're doing behind the scenes. Yes, there's always going to be those couple that, that, that don't see what we do. And, and they somehow got through the cracks of getting hired. But again, we never want anyone leaving us. We want to decide if someone should be in our company or not. We want to make that decision and if we made a hiring decision, we want to be the ones letting that person go. We don't want people deciding that we were not good enough for them. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes a ton of sense. So I want to summarize, summarize what I heard is that when you've got this massive commitment to your team that as any hour grows, they'll grow. Yes. Any hour won't grow unless they grow. So it's kind of like, you know, w we got to get this right. Yes. And you're going to end and you're not going to just hope that these people can organically grow with the business. You're going to make conscious choices and developing, what I heard right there, it was three levels of management right now. Yes. Executive level, your mid tier management in your supervisor level all have a specific focus on helping them become better at that job and understanding how they can get what they need to know, how they need to think to get to the next level. Is that what I'm hearing? Yes. Also, we believe in too, too deep leadership management. So we, everyone's a, I get asked all the time, people were always telling me my manager is just not as not good enough to do this or that. And then Dah, Dah, Dah, Dah. And they were picking out the weaknesses. We all have weaknesses. So we're actually using the color code. We've been using this, the color code for about 10 years. And we, we actually team up a manager with someone that there has to be connection, but also we noticed the color code. It's, it's a, it's a complimentary of color and we don't, we didn't start off just doing that. We just realized that was happening. So, so we actually, the assistant manager to the manager, that's the two deep Lindt management. Uh, those two usually have a complimentary color. So Jeremy and I, Jeremy Tech technically works directly for me, even though he's, he's my partner. He's the GM, right? And I'm the founder of the business. So anyway, so he, uh, and I'm the president. So anyway, he, so together our colors complement each other. Our personalities compliment each other and we're too deep management. So he, he leans on me and I don't think he's felling if he leans on me and I'm able to help him manage his people. And then he then is helping his managers as a two d leadership, their managers or how have to deep leadership with their assistant managers. So literally we believe in too deep management and we all have the weaknesses and we all have strengths. We're trying to focus on each other's strengths, not our weaknesses, whereas less, I noticed most a lot of I'm going to like, what are you going to do? No, it was a, go ahead Wyatt. This, this, you know, I just hear a lot of people that think that, uh, I just hear a lot of people say that their manager is not good enough and that the business outgrew the, the manager. And I just don't like that. Why would anyone want to grow the business if they're your GM, if you algorithm. So if there's your GM, get them to the right complimentary, right employee or promotion for both the person that's gonna help them succeed. Not the person that's going to tear them down and trying to become that person that tears them down so they can become the next. So your assumption is, is that when you, when you hire somebody that they're going to continue to grow through your organization, there won't be a time where that won't be the case. Right. Then you're not going to make that assumption. You're not going to say that on the front end. Right. I'm not going to cap anybody. I'm not ever going to cap anybody. We're also not, we're also willing to do the hard management. Yeah. Wow. People are going to hear this, but anyway. Okay. So I'm out here with my team. Um, two of the, uh, well, people are going to hear this. Yes. Okay. Sorry. Two of the managers in the room here, this recruiting Class II, up until three weeks ago, we're answering directly to Jeremy. Okay. I had to meet with them and let them know that they're now answering to one of their peers who is Lincoln, who now is their manager. Okay. So instead, so as the business grew, I had to help them see that, no, you're not meeting with Jeremy Anymore. You're actually meeting with Lincoln who used to be your peer. Now he's your boss. For better words. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's not easy to get with somebody and help them see that. So am I just going to keep promoting someone up the ranks as we keep growing? No Way. We're going to put them in a spot and we're going to grow with them and they, they're going to know I'm not going to demote him. Not, I didn't take their pay down. They actually got, um, uh, no, they didn't get pay raise, but anyway, they, uh, okay. That's okay. I can't let him have access to that. I don't know. This is on iTunes. You going to take their iPhone away. Okay. Okay, go ahead. Sorry. So anyway, it's not a straight line. They didn't get promotion. Someone else got promoted. I got promoted. The business grows, but that doesn't mean later on there won't be another 12 for the person. That's our recruiting manager has been our marketing manager at one point. But then again, the business grew to a certain size and yeah, it was a big job. We, we prone to someone else in, in the marketing position that's the, can take us to the next level. He got and he got moved to another position in management, so, right. Yeah. That's so, it's not like, you know, here's your severance package. Go Away. Yes. It's, it's in, that's just normal. All right. I think, yeah, I don't think there's going to be too much confusion that, that for everyone, it's a linear path up, right? Sometimes we're taking sideways moves, but are we selfless or we selfless. Selfish. And I, I'd like to think that we're promoting selfless people. We all have a selfish spottiness. Yeah. But we're helping them manage themselves through that. And they know our intent is, is for the betterment of the whole business. And they know they're better off as a business grows because we have to always grow. I believe that 100% because you told me so. Well, why? I was copying like eight other people that said, you're either growing or dying. And I believe it's true. Yeah. Right. I believe it's true in business that, you know, employees want to be in a place that's on the move. No, it doesn't have to be the second coming of Microsoft, but it has to be a business where, you know, I think, I think very strongly that it's very tough to keep him motivated environment at work when employees don't believe that tomorrow will be better than today. Just a little bit. Love it just a little bit better. And uh, as soon as they, they lose that, whether either for the company or their individual role, it's tough to get them up early in the morning, you know? And for any of us, right. Yeah. You know, I, I never thought I'd be where I am today, but if I thought this was it, this is all in life, you know, it'd be different. Right. Yup. Even though if you'd asked me 30 years ago, would you be happy where you are today, Jack also? Absolutely. Just give it to me. I'll, I'll never complain. That's just not how people work. Makes Sense. Right. I agree. You know? Well that's awesome. So I've got a good story that you've painted so far about, about your motivations. Um, let me ask a question and this just occurred to me. So you've got some personal background that creates

Speaker 1: 38:36

this energy that creates this momentum that you carry into your business every day. Now, fortunately, and unfortunately not every manager that worked there comes from three generations of trades that had a tough existence. You know, back when they didn't know how to run a business and even though their ancestors worked hard, how do you create that same level of, how do you create an environment where they can start to have some of that same energy that you do? How does that work? Cause they, they, they didn't grow up like you did. Right. That's a good point. Yeah. What do you do? It was very good. I don't know how to do it either. It's not like I got to quit answering the back of my pocket here. I believe, uh, I believe in sharing stories. So, uh, the best place to share a story is out of town at a training. We get three nights out of town with them and, uh, we're going to go out to eat at night at dinner and I'm going to share stories. So yeah, I'm going to talk about, I'm going to talk about the past, but I'm not just going to talk. Um, what I'm gonna do is I'm going to find out about them. So, uh, so I'm going to find out what their story is. And even though they don't have my story, they have a story because everybody has some kind of story, some kind of reason why they're doing what they're doing in life. So I'm going to find that story out at night and, and at the same time, share with them, you know, our story. And so they can know. It's not always been that we're this huge mammoth company that can just do whatever and they can see, oh wow, okay, this company was built off people like myself, uh, their hard work and people like myself can go somewhere here. You know, I think that's interesting that you said that because as I was reflecting on, on the whole issue of, of employee motivation and, and doing great things and you know, I think that that it is part of our job as a leader to draw what I call that y in the employee. You know, everybody does have a story and sometimes I don't know if people have allowed themselves or it says on the surface as it was for you on what motivates you every day. But I think if you ask that question enough in you help people understand how important it is in life to have a purpose professionally, not just spiritually, but or for your family or for material goods, but help people understand why they need to be extraordinary at work and just start asking that question and sharing yours, it might draw out from them something deep that they hadn't thought about. I said, I'm just getting a little touchy feely here, but I think it's true. Right. I agree. I think that's just, I think in your conversations with the way you shared your story, you know, um, it further connected me to why I do what I do. Cause I didn't have a tough upbringing. I mean, I had plenty, you know, we were, I was a member of a country club growing up. That's awesome. And I played golf and I had to charge number that I could charge to my dad's account. And I charged too much sometimes, but he's still let me go and still the charge number, right? So I had to, I had very different experience, but I've started to connect some of what we do here at next door to people like yourself in hearing your story actually reminds me of why I do what I do because there's so many people that have a similar story within this, within this industry. I'll say that the, that there's people that that came up, their father was an electrician. That grandfather was, you know, and they didn't have much and all of a sudden, you know, they, they've got, they saw the light in there. They're living a life and they're creating opportunity and it creates a motivation for people like myself who didn't have that upbringing. So I didn't have anything like you had. But the thing is lojack is, is even though you had that, you, you've had to make yourself successful. You had, you've had of guarantee, you've had your moments, right. Oh, so, um, there's more to it than that story, but I think the, you're sharing your why without being grandiose about it. And I don't know, you're not, you know what, being humble about it, but we real about it. And then asking them for, you know, kind of what, what centers their existence as an employee. Because so often, you know, we, we, we, someone comes in to work and now we're getting real will right now, but they, they come into work and we just think, just do your job. Right. I'm looking forward to you to do a job and we don't get involved in the rest of it. And then we get upset when they don't do their job. And we haven't started to develop a reason beyond the paycheck for them to do. And be extraordinary at work. Yeah, and I think we need to ask that question. I think, and I'm going to, I'm going to say that I've seen you do that. One of the things I've seen, now I'm really talking, this is like, but what I'm, I remember when I was at your event or your company and you had a weekly meeting and everybody comes in for this weekly meeting and you had like a hundred people there. It's like a technician meeting. There's a whole boatload of people and you sat at the door and you shook everybody's hand. Right? And I was kind of standing there too. I was the guest. And, and you would grab somebody and put through your arm around their shoulder and you tell me no, this is, you know, I'm going to make up a name right now. This is Jeff and just one of the best electricians in this whole valley here. He's just an awesome guy. And this is Jack and he's with Nexstar. And you got it to get to know Jeff Jack because he was fantastic. Everybody you met was the best guy ever made your life. Right? And you meant it though, right? This wasn't a, and then you did. Or just this is Jack and he's this awesome guy and he's from the next door here we say it to the, to the, so we haven't specced out, right? No, you did it once and it wasn't the same line. Wasn't seem like, but the, the point I'm getting to is there was a real sincerity to, to an appreciation for every, every individual that came in and you remembered a lot of their names and told me their story and you told them my story and you put your armor on me like I was, they knew. They knew you before you even came. Well, because we've shown them the videos, they know about you. So it was a cool, but I'm saying he was, for those people listening here, the, the, the conversation we're having, um, is not just a conversation. I see it witnessed in your business routinely. And I'll

Speaker 2: 44:31

say that you talk about people development to management development before we had this podcast where even dreamed of a podcast, I'd seen you at my office 1518 times escorting people through here, sitting back in the back of the class, doing whatever you're doing, where you're listening and taking these people out. So you live into it. Why I want to genuinely care about my friends and my friends work for work with me. Yeah. Now I need to let you know though. So, so some people have had success in their life and they've, they have, they have, they've had the money, but they have their insecurities also. Some people are afraid of never living up to their, what their parents had been able to do. Um, and or the, and they have their whole desire to, to try to prove that they, they're, they're, they're a good person. They have this legacy they need, they want to live up to, they feel they need it to live up to. And so anyway, we all have something to, that's important too. So we do, we do it. We all have different motivations. And it's not all the same. Right. It's not all the same. Yeah. Me Trying to please my mother. Is that what you're saying? That's an example. Sounds good. You know there's some truth to that. It's not true to that too. But uh, awesome. Why any, any other thoughts you have? Because we've been at this and it's been an awesome conversation and you would just have so much to offer. And I want to thank you for being just an awesome example within this organization for people. Cause I hear your name all the time. Yeah. I have one thing to say. So, so when I go on the trips with everybody, it's not about what I'm going to say actually. It's about what they're going to say. So it's, it's a lot of listening. It's a lot of understanding. It's not me boasting about whatever it is. A lot of listening, a lot of understanding what they are wanting out of life, what they want it with her family, they talking about, you know, and on the, on the on boarding process, finding out really who they are and the color code is awesome because once they take the clinical, we only give that to the people that are actually a, that we think we want to hire. So we're not spending money on every single person that comes to the door. Um, and so anyway, when they, when they, uh, so when they take that they open up on a different level because they, they're like, oh wow, they know who I am. And they site, they see their coal motive, core motive and uh, and, and it's just a deep conversation and the onboarding process from taking that color code, I still remember when you first took the color code here, you're like, oh, this explains so much. There's just so much you like send it over and it's pretty awesome. Can I tell you the color code is core motive thing, you know, and mine was blue, red, just like you, it's relationship. And power. And, uh, I remember I sent it to you and you said, oh, blue reds are awesome. I could have said you anything. Oh, that's awesome. So I remember that you made me feel really good about cause like, Jeez, I didn't know his relationship guy. I didn't know this. And then I wonder, I thought you were a red, blue or blue red. So I was, I didn't know which. I knew you had more red than me though. You do need that. You have got to be dead than I probably do. But so anyway, so, so I, I, I appreciate what you shared with us today and that was done in Coupa,

Speaker 1: 47:30

offered a lot. And uh, congratulations for building what you've built for the people that you've built it for you. We're still building it. So I know about this. Well first, I know there's a mountain Frania, but you're standing on a pretty good peak right now. So as you look back, congratulations to you and your people. If there are any other Andy, our people listening here too, you've built something very, very special there and you should all feel great about it. We've all done together and thank you and uh, we appreciate you being here. Maybe we'll do this again some time. Sounds great. Awesome. Cause she'll be here a lot. I know that. So anyway, thank you Wyatt and thank you all for listening to this awesome addition here. Leadership Lounge, Jack Tester with White Hepworth and the kitchen. Next time. Thanks so much.