Speaker 1: 0:09

Hi, this is Jack tester and welcome to another episode of leadership lounge. I'm in Saint Paul, Minnesota and it's cloudy, it's wintertime and in stark contrast to me as Sydney across a very tanned swarthy man, Keith mercurial. How you doing Keith?

Speaker 2: 0:23

I'm doing great Jack. Especially due to that, uh, current bronze that I'm able to hold. Well you just got back from your honeymoon. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Yeah, we got two weeks in a, in Hawaii, Maui and a[inaudible] pretty special stuff.

Speaker 1: 0:37

Well, very cool. Yeah, you'll be as pasty as I am pretty soon. So anyway, so Keith, you're a familiar face here next door. You know, I tell you, I traveled to Nexstar events and I'll bump into technicians and they won't know who I am, but they certainly know who you are. But from the all the training you've done through service system, advanced service system and a lot of other classes in a course, uh, you are the, uh, one of the original faces of wake up call here at next door. And I've done a lot of other video work for Nexstar. So you're very familiar face here in this organization. So congratulations for all the good work you've done.

Speaker 2: 1:10

Thank you. That's always a privilege to meet technicians who know me and don't already hate me. That's really uh, a nice you don't know you well enough yet. Well there's always that. And then and uh, these guys who have been subjected to thousands of hours of morning meetings and[inaudible] and Keith, we can joke, we really hope that we make them a little bit brighter and a little bit more informational, you know?

Speaker 1: 1:33

Well I look at, I look at the transition of, of next training and I look at, and I'm going to in isolation, look at our flagship training program and service system and what that has, how that has matured and grown since you've been a part of our training environment here and really led some of the thought leadership in that class. And, and now it's training 4,000 plus technicians a year live, forgetting how many people see it on, you know, the various iterations of it and either our self centered self study guides or the wakeup call where elements of it are are taken. So congratulations man. What an impact.

Speaker 2: 2:08

Thank you. And it's pretty amazing to watch now with uh, you know, Bobby and fad on board and we've got bill, you know, now joining the team and these guys are now taking it to the next level along with our member trainers. It's been, it's been so cool to watch them all grab hold of, you know, this evolution and just take it to places that I didn't imagine either. Well, it's really been great.

Speaker 1: 2:30

So it's got its own energy now and I, I give you a lot of that credit. Thank you. Thank you. So, but I want to talk because I think your journey to next Nexstar is an interesting one and it may be a typical in a lot of respects. And I'd like to you to talk about that. So Keith, you know, now you're, you know, you're this, this public figure within our organization and you know, you come to a meeting and virtually everyone, at least a senior face and knows your name. Uh, it wasn't always that way. So us where you grew

Speaker 2: 3:00

up kind of what, uh, the early Keith was like, so where'd you grow up? Watertown. Massachusetts. Okay. All right. So always, always a Boston voice. They're going to say Harbor Harbor, Harbor. Well, look, it's really in seafood. It's like lobster or chowder or anything like that. It's when the seafood gets discussed that, you know, oysters, like these are the things that, where you're going to hear the accent the strongest or after a couple of drinks, it tends to show up pretty live. Yeah, it does. Yup. We've, we've had those moments and uh, so Watertown, Massachusetts, small town, just outside of Boston, pretty blue collar town. When I was growing up, we were kind of known as the poor kids relative to Belmont and Arlington and Cambridge and all these other towns around us. But that was certainly a little bit of a part of a mixed identity as I started to grow up cause we lived in a nice middle class family, but it was an educationally based family. My dad's a teacher and my mom worked in schools as well. And then, you know, my brother followed their lead. I had an older brother, seven years older than me, a sister, five years older than me. All brilliant. And, um, and as I kind of, as I came along, I know not only was I was I the youngest of those three, I was the youngest of 25 first cousins in my big Irish side of the family. And, uh, and, and I was, I was always considered like, you know, a pretty talented kid and a pretty smart kid. But yet, uh, from an academic standpoint and from a behavioral standpoint, I certainly went off the rails from what my brother and sister had done in most of the family had done. And so by the time I hit high school, I was already becoming clear that I was a little bit of a, an outcast in the family or a little bit of a black sheep to, to use that, that phrase. Um, and by the time I hit high school, I really started to struggle academically. And that was when I started to get pretty crafty about it. And, um, and so I, I figured out every possible way to cheat, to try to score the grades that were expected of me despite the fact that academically I was struggling, even though I wanted to use the word crap, better corrupt. Les Brown says, be resourceful, Jack. And, uh, I figured if I could beat the system, uh, there was no great harm in that cause to me. You know, I was expected to kinda to be a, an a student. That's what the, the path that had been set. And man, I was everything but that. And it wasn't cause I didn't care. But, um, that's what kind of started to develop. You know, over the years I managed to, to backdoor my way into college. I transferred high schools, uh, and got scored one great semester. She cheated my way through it, but got one great semester to where my grades were good enough and I was able to kind of get a baseball scholarship and go play a little division two school. But as soon as I got to college, things started to really go downhill for me. And I was struggling to stay in school. And it was during this time that, um, what became clear to me was that I had this opportunity to craft an image to protect the fact that I was failing at something I was supposed to be good at. So I was supposed to be getting great grades and I wasn't, even though I wanted to, and even though I was trying to, and I didn't understand what else to do. And so what became available to me was what if I became the guy that didn't care? All right. So therefore if you failed, it wasn't like you were trying. Right. Hey, I'm above it. Private deal. Right. Fascinating. Yeah. And you know, I didn't know this at the time. It wasn't a conscious decision that I made Jack. It was just something that now all the work that I've done and I reflect on it is so obvious to me. So I became the partier. I was like the life of the party, you know, I could out drink people, I could, you know, stay up late or whatever. And so, by the way, to your credit, you are very, very good at that, Keith. I mean, I've been with you on a number of occasions and uh, you may not be that smart, but you are a good party, I hope. Right? Ah, know for mom to ever hear this is her nightmare, but you're not as good as you once were. It makes you feel any better. Um, and so that was, that was part of the identity that was formed. And in fact that was, it was part of my buddies that I got around where all the hard party and crowd and the heavy drinkers and stuff. And, um, and, and that was the, became my image was like, you know, Keith was a partier and, uh, you know, part of that was like, you know, I was more interested in girls and parties and I was in school and yeah. And what happened was I, in this way, I kind of insulated myself from, it's like everyone could just say off Keith really cared, you know, what could he imagine what he could be. So it's like I got credit for being smart without the work and it let me focus on what I loved, which was partying and, and meeting people. Um, but meanwhile, like there was this frustration underneath that I just couldn't actually do what I was supposed to be doing. Yeah. So you're in school, you're in college, you harder to cheat[inaudible] Muslim going home to mom anymore and now you're left to your own devices. Right. And then college just kinda ended without a degree. That's right. So three and a half years in with, I don't know, like two years worth of credits. Uh, my poor dad finally just pulled the plug so it wouldn't, we're not doing this anymore, you know, we're not gonna, we're not going to continue down this road. And so, um, you know, what ended up happening was, uh, you know, I had to leave school and it was very clear why as much as he extended me a fine rope. But, you know, in my college career, he said it's time to go to work. And, uh, and that was when the opportunity, the only opportunity I knew of that existed was my next door neighbor. Uh, Tim Flynn, who was a plumber and successful guy. By the time he moved into Watertown, Watertown was on the rise. It was now a really expensive place to live. All right. And this successful young guy moves in next door to us. We find out he's got a plumbing company and he and I had known each other since I was about 12 years old and he'd always kind of talked about me doing something, his business. And so he actually hired me as I dropped out of school. He hired me to do inside sales form initially. Um, so we wanted to make a follow up hold you at 20 years old, you're 20 years old. Yeah. Wow. 20 years old. I was just, I would turn 21 that, that February and I started the first three months I did inside sales and I did very well with it. I sold a few hundred thousand dollars or something like that. It came pretty naturally. But part of the process was he put me in a truck, uh, early on for just a few weeks so I could learn what I was talking about to the degree that I'd be able to get by. And I loved it. I became an apprentice and I loved it. And so can I just say what you said, what happened, Keith, is you kind of failed your way into the industry a hundred percent. Right? In a derogatory. So, and I'm sorry I didn't say it because that's, that's what I, I always feel that way. I mean, I, I complete, I flunked into plumbing. Yeah. In every possible way. Right? Yeah, it was, it was the only opportunity available to me. And it was a, it was the convenient one. It was your neighbor. You didn't even have to go out and look for a job. You just finally went to Tim and said, now is the time to do that thing that we talked about since I was 12. You know, like, was that for real? And, and so, you know, and, and God bless him man, because I, God knows where I would've ended up if not for that. Yeah. You know what I mean? That was a, that was a huge opportunity for me. And, um, but I actually had to fight with them to get into the truck, cause he, he didn't, um, he didn't want me to be a plumber. He wanted me to be more of a, you know, I dunno, executive role, uh, you know, a business oriented role. You know, he was a forward thinking guy for a younger plumber. Him and Gino Cataldo, uh, own the company together. And they were, they had, they had bought this institution winters, uh, in Belmont. Been around for 92 years and they bought this company and taken over the brand and they were progressive. I mean, he, you know, he was sharing stuff with me that really intrigued me, uh, as a young man because, you know, I wasn't just a failure, you know, I was also, I thought differently than other people necessarily around me dead. And so he really captured my interest. Yeah. So you, so you, so in this inside sales role, you went on the field for a couple of weeks just to see what the, you are selling, what that was actually like and what the company did and you fell in love with it. And I really did. And you talked your way into being an apprentice. Yeah, I had to, I had to convince him to let me do it. Um, and, and then, uh, and I really, I was, I was good with my hands. I was, I was a good technician. It made sense to me. And I love this was the thing that was so different from school is I love that at the end of the day I knew what I had done. Yeah. That's a big deal in it. Cause I couldn't, you know, I was, uh, trying to pursue some political science degree. I had this learning disability that I'd rate politician. Well, that's part of my journey. I ran for state rep in as a Republican Senator in Massachusetts. That's right. And one of the most liberal districts. TIAA. Yep. Right. Yep. One of the best things I ever did for myself though, because I'll tell you, Jack, that was the, probably the turning point in my life as it related to the concept of integrity because we're on a public forum and it was, I had a lot of the town and the district's attention and my family's name was attached to it. And that was that we knew things about our opponent that may or may not, and there was no, I wasn't going to win that. But at the time it felt like it could have. Yeah. And those were the first major decisions in my life I made about not doing something to advance myself, but rather doing something to maintain the quality of our family's name. And that was a great lesson for me in my life. Actually. We'll come back 24 24 so you had, this was kind of three years into your, your winters experience. It was a plumbing apprentice running for state representative college dropout, plumber apprentice running for state representative against the 12 year incumbent. Yeah. Yup.

Speaker 1: 12:54

It was a, it was curious cause we'll, we'll, we'll leave this in a minute here cause that's probably another story. But what percentage of the vote did you get? I got 25% of the vote. Okay. Now the,

Speaker 2: 13:03

this is my one claim to fame cause that's, that's not a close election. 75 to 25. It's not a close election. No, it's not. But I did get more votes than the gubernatorial candidate on the Republican party inside of that district. So we actually really did make a, a dent, uh, compared to anything else that had ever happened there. So

Speaker 1: 13:22

it was a really loud voted four to one four, right? Three, three to one set four to one. Oh, we're so bad at math. Someone listening will know which one it is and just cut that part four to one. I think so. Well, anyways, so, so congratulations on your failure there too. And rationalizing it as a victory. I don't make no mistake. I have failed myself to whatever version of success one would call this. So. All right, so you became a, uh, an apprentice plumber. You're working in the field. Um, when did you, now here you are

Speaker 2: 13:58

this amazing trainer thought leader within Nexstar. How, how did you get introduced to what the, even the semblance of what you're doing today? Well, this is, I mean, this is the key part. So I was, I liked the trade. I was good with my hands. Um, but we had, you know, the traditional system of like, you know, there was a scoreboard Outback and you were being ranked. And as I was growing in my career, that same identity that I had previously adopted from college was still there. You know, I failed my way in and now there's a grading system. Okay. And once again, I found myself at odds with the system. All right, so

Speaker 1: 14:37

weren't at the top of the board, bottom of the board. You're at the bottom of the board.

Speaker 2: 14:41

I was the guy that was uh, too smart for the snarky trainers that they brought in at the time. Well

Speaker 1: 14:49

you the guy kind of sniping sniping

Speaker 2: 14:52

with, with texts to your buddies, you know. Yeah. There was that, there was in meetings though. See, I like, I was like a, a self appointed union leader inside of the, you know, I was like raising my, you know, BS objections to like the one truck exercise. I picked the one truck exercise apart the first time it was, now you train it. I find it so ironic that you were the Oh yeah, no, I was, I was the worst of the terrorists, the worst student, the worst technician. I mean, I was absolutely those things and was because look, again, looking back at it now, I can see it understanding how identity evolves in like, you know, creates our behavior. But my job was to always prove myself, the smartest guy in the room to counteract this idea that I was a failure at everything I was doing. Yeah. I get it. And it was always somebody else or it was the system or it was, you know, if everyone just was as smart as me, things would be fine. They might need it. I don't. Yeah, exactly. You know, and that, and we were, you know, I thought we were taking advantage of our customers a whole bunch. I mean, all, all the standard, the lines. And I used to look at that board and I'd say, you know, the guys at the top are taking advantage of their customers selling stuff that they don't need. I'm the good guy. And that's the thing about like, when I didn't have integrity, I'd be at the top of exactly. Yeah, exactly. Like you, you could reverse that board in order of who's honest. Right? Who's the good guy, good guy to worst guy. Was that, I didn't know. Well you didn't, it wasn't long after that that we met though. And so what happened was, you know, the first, I will still, I mean the first couple of trainers they brought through, I still, I mean it was, it was snake oil. And so my first introduction to they weren't great is what you're saying. They were, I don't, I mean, to this day, the, the, you know, no names needed to be mentioned, but not, not a good person. You know what I mean? And I could feel that. And so my first introduction to any sort of kind of like sales and business training inside of the trades was, was one that just made me, made my skin crawl. Got it. And I w and so therefore I had now a whole, you know, we use this term, but I had a whole filter about training. Um, the guy that that started to shift it was Matt Smith actually. And, uh, you know, Matt was part of the early see 2000 kind of, you know, through the Friedman group that we employed. Yup. Yeah. And, um, and Matt was the first trainer that came in that I actually, I was like, Oh, this guy's pretty fun. Yeah, you know, this is different. This is interesting. And there were definitely parts of it that I was like, Oh, that's not for me. Right. You know, because it really, it felt, it didn't, you know, meet the test of is this a good guy behavior, but, but it was the best I'd seen. And I started to get some better results and I started to become real interested in, Matt Smith was the one that said to Gino and Tim, if you guys want a trainer in your company, this would be your guy. Yeah. And, um, and that got my interest up. So I started going down that road and that was when, you know, all of a sudden I started, you know, started doing a little better and, and started to get committed. And right around that time we joined Nexstar. Okay. So this is all pre next door that's pre next door, those first introductions. But you know, some tie back to Nexstar and that doesn't surprise me looking back at it. And, and that's when I got sent to my first Nexstar training in Chicago. And, uh, it was actually customer service training. It was a CSR school and at this time it was being taught by Dave Bodak and Bob Hamilton and Lewis Williams. This has been before, I don't even remember when out was I even here. You weren't here yet. You were you, this was during your absence. My goodness. Um, and so, so I go to that training and I'm sitting next to, uh, you know, so there's more females in that class and there would be in some of the other programs and I'm sitting next to a fairly attractive girl and we're five minutes into the training and uh, and Dave Bodak is training and she turns to me and she goes, this guy's good. And my immediate thought was like, I need to do this because a pretty girl thought he was good. Yeah. Because of the whole thing because I, it was something I already wanted to do. Just real primal here, to be honest, I'm just pointing it out. But you were very shallow, 24 year old man saying, well I don't, I don't, I don't know that that's shallow. I think that's pretty standard behavior for a 24 year old, at least from the Northeast to Midwesterners are a little bit more conservative with your admit. I should not say thank you for being honest. Well, it's for that look, you know, I finally got, what does this your thousandth episode of this podcast? I finally got my chance to be here. I want to make sure that it, uh, that it sticks. So I wanted to make sure that the desire was there on their part. So anyway, keep going. So, no, so this girl, you know, she's, she turns in and like, of course I'm a 24 year old guy. I'm thinking about being a trainer. I see Dave Bodak up there. He's got a suit on. He's killing it. He's a Peggy's amazing. Oh, he's an amazing trainer. And, and uh, and I have this moment, but I don't, I'll be completely candid. I also had the thought, I'm like, I could, I can totally do. I'm, I could be better than that. Okay. And so here I've got this girl being like, wow. I'm like, wow. But I'm also saying I could be better than this. I go, I got to do this, this and this. It's so important because it's fascinating. Yeah. And I don't, again, in the spirit of candor here, the reason I became a trainer is because I wanted the front of the room. Yeah. You wanted the attention. Yeah. A hundred percent attention command. I mean, I wanted to do it well and, but I wanted, I wanted that youngest to 25 first cousins. I didn't get a word in edgewise growing up, you know? But, uh, so I had to learn to be what funny or smart or whatever to get people's attention. This was just like a bigger scale. And the thought that I would have someone's full attention was, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's cool. So that was your first, whether the, the light went off, you know, so you'd got a little bit from a little encouragement from your boss is Tim and Gino, and then through Matt Smith, and then all of a sudden you came to this Nexstar event and then you saw what was happening in this kind of,

Speaker 1: 20:47

this formal setting. It wasn't in the warehouse and your company was in a hotel and guys wearing a suit and tie looking sharp. He's a young guy too, right.

Speaker 2: 20:56

Do this, and I swear to you, this is, this is in so many ways a turning point in my life, but I met Bob Hamilton too, and it was the, up until that point, I had that the equation was you could be a good guy and middle-class at best or you had to be a bad guy to be rich. I mean, still in my head, that was the, the equation. And I'm at Bob Hamilton. I realized you could be a great guy and you could be successful. And that was what next are equal to me because I sat through that whole training looking for the parts that I wasn't going to agree with or that were going to be unethical or whatever. And they weren't there. And everybody in that room that was part of Nexstar was successful and kind. And I was like, well, this is different. Yeah. And it changed. That was a, you know, one of those context transformations for me where suddenly what I believed wasn't true anymore. That's so cool.

Speaker 1: 21:51

That is so cool. Yeah. I want to ask you another thing, cause I know your journey is with, to get to where you are isn't complete yet, but you had told me on one occasion that there was a particular class in next door. I know the answer here, so I'm going to lead you to it. It was a particular class you went to a Nexstar that really changed how you thought about training. It thought about how it brought to light, all the challenges you had as a student. Right? So when did you, and so the class I'm talking about is what we now call train the trainer.

Speaker 2: 22:23

Well now it's training mastery. It was training the trainer or whatever the name is[inaudible] CEO and I have to know the name. So no, nor did we want you without involved in the training department, Jeff. So, so he's a great class. Whatever the name is, it has to do with training. Keep doing it. Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. So this was Virginia Beach, um, not long after that. Um, probably 26 years old now. Okay. And, uh, and so I, you know, I'd seen enough nextdoor class that started to create some success. I get to be the trainer for the company at winter. Winter's. Yeah. So they send me to train the trainer with Cindy Pasky and Dan Friesan and I, and train the trainer, you know, was this transformative program about participant centered learning. And in the course of it, you take some evaluations on your learning style. And um, I came to this discovery during this program that I had this what was called a participative learning style in like a really heavy tilt, uh, versus reflective. So reflectives are people that are readers, they're writers, they can work alone, awful. They've got wisdom, noticed Jack, and uh, and these are, you know, these are people who do great work and listening, you know, or to lecture or just, you know, reading and writing. And I was so far on the other end of it and I need to like, and I've said this a million times, but my doesn't turn on until I start talking like I need to be in conversation to create ideation to, to have ideas, process or whatever. So I was always, I always got, you know, the one Mark that was always high in school was my participation Mark because that was when I was engaged. But if I was in a class when I was being asked to do work alone, read books, write papers, stuff like this, that was when I got swamped and shared with you, you know, I would discover during that process and later in life that I had this learning disability that I never knew about with language processing when it came to reading and writing. And that was my, you know, there's dagger for school. That's all I was asked to do in school. It's when I got overwhelmed and I couldn't keep up with the reading and writing demands. And so I have this moment, this epiphany as I'm in Cindy and Dan's class. Like there wasn't, I wasn't broken as a student. I was just working within a system that absolutely was dragging me into my weaknesses. Like my V I mean significant weaknesses and never leveraging my strengths. And if somebody had put, you know, the other thing was I was a kinesthetic learner and it's like if someone could to learn what by doing something exactly that people that don't know what that is, that's what that means. And that's what so many of our technicians are kinesthetic learners. There are people that like to take things apart, do things. So that's why like skill practicing is highly effective actually doing stuff, taking things apart, putting them back together. And um, and by the way, a little secret for those who had, this is why the toys are always on the table at a Nexstar event, right? Kinesthetic learners, if their hands are engaged, their brains are open to processing information. Right? And I realized if someone had just put some Legos on my desk and given me verbal tests, I probably would have been that straight a student. But I was being worked to such a disadvantage and that, that unlocked something in me. And I said, I got to do this for others.

Speaker 1: 25:29

Oh, that was cool. That was a, that's a cool story that you told about kind of that, that, that moment that all this came on. And I, and I, and I asked you that because I think that's not uncommon, right? The people that find their way in, and I'm going to use this very respectfully, cause you didn't fail your way. You're exactly where you should be, right? It, but, but you, you, you had to go through some pain through formal education, through college. So the traditional way, and I'm a reflective learner, right? And I can sit and think and, and read and write. And, and so I'd never had this huge challenge with, with that kind of of education. Right? Um, but so many people do and there's so many people that are so talented that, that I think, you know, they, they just found their way into this industry. Um, they've been, they found great joy in the industry and I went on, but I hope the message that I want to share is, is I hope the identities of being a successful person is now there. That it's not that of I'm still just a technician because I didn't become a teacher like my dad or a, you know, a college professor like my mom. Good

Speaker 2: 26:44

for you is what I'm going to say. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I appreciate that and I will tell you that is still, I mean it has to be because of the perspective that I was able to bring to it, but this is my observation of the industry because, you know, I think when we're growing up, if we look at it from a primal standpoint, which is, you know, a place where I do want to, you know, really make sure that we, we don't want to forget that, that we're evaluated on three kinds of critical factors as, as kids, as adolescents, especially as boys. You know, one would be our athletic prowess. Okay. The other, they are academic prowess. And the third would be our social prowess, right? And so, you know, when you look at the way the school systems were designed with this idea of building factory workers, which was the intent behind the design of the modern day educational system, lining people up in rows, asking them to do repetitive work and memorization, and to sit quietly and go about their business. Nothing about that speaks to creating a successful human being. Nothing about that. And yet, this is our first measurement of success and worth is how we're doing academically. So now you take these potentially will, you know as my belief, all people are brilliant in their own way, right? Not just in a trite way, but truly that it should mean, you know, you've got to unlock someone's brilliance. Will you take all of these brilliant kinesthetic learners and you put them in a row, tell them to be quiet, to not fiddle, to not fidget, and to sit and listen, learn and memorize. And you are asking them to do the most impossible task and then immediately instilling them in them a sense of a lack of self worth because they're struggling with the thing they're supposed to be good at. Yeah. At best, the majority of our technicians who come in struggled in one of the three critical adolescent developmental markers along the way, right? Yeah. And, and so then they find this thing, they're good at the trade, plumbing, HVC, electrical, they're good mechanics. Then a company joins Nexstar and sends them off to training. And their first thought is this one thing that I finally know that I'm good at. I'm being sent to find out what I'm not doing right. And this is why so many technicians walk in with absolute disdain for training that they've never even experienced before. Right. And then, you know, go ahead and, and, and multiply that by the effect of something like having been exposed to maybe some sleazy training before us. And you've got people that come in and those are the filters that we talk about that come in talking about building a wall. They got it. Not 100% it's not a filter anymore. It's a, yeah, you're right. And that's, and so what I see, and of course this is for all human beings, whatever it is that we're good at as part of our identity along with what we're bad at. So we're going to resist that which we're bad at and we're going to try to hold onto what we're good at so that we can maintain status quo. And this is a natural human condition. And that's why these guys come in so completely, you know, up against it. And, and rightfully so and uh, terrible though,

Speaker 1: 29:43

Keith, if I can jump in real quick, is that then we often blame the technician. You're close minded. You know, you're not, you're not a big thinker. You're whatever you're, you doesn't get, it doesn't get at that body in, you know, all of these terms that we, that, that we casually throw at people, you know, before resisting formal education through our company. You know, cause I get it, DOP say I'm going to send you to training. That poor guy that didn't enjoy sitting in a line is going to say that they're gonna make me sit in the line again. And he's not saying that, but he's just, he doesn't, he or she's necessarily making that connection.

Speaker 2: 30:19

It's not even necessarily conscious. Yeah. We have ignited a primal, right. So this is again going back to that primal stuff. This is anything I can do to avoid this. Anything I can do to avoid, this is what I'm going to do. I was like, you're asking me to go into a bathing suit competition right now and our whole look good, right? Somebody said, Jack, we're going to make you go walk out in a no, no, I'm not doing that. Right, right. Maybe a bad analogy, but I get it. It's everybody now has that visual. So we're just enjoying that. That thought. But maybe a spray tan on you would know. I tried to be honest there Keith. And now you're making fun. Continue to. Absolutely. So that's, that's so cool Keith. So, so this is this

Speaker 1: 30:59

class that you took that's going back to this, this training mastery class or train the trainer at the time. Um, that was kind of something that, that, that caused really made you sit up and say, you know what, I can, I can do great things. I can learn great things. I'm just as smart if not smarter than anyone else. And this really helped you kind of get through maybe an identity issue. Yeah,

Speaker 2: 31:23

I mean massive. It was a life altering event. Like so, you know, completely life altering event. And I brought it back to, and this is pretty neat cause I brought it back to winters and I man I was on fire and that, you know, we started a senior coming back from training on fire. I imagine you were, you don't, you were in sufferable let me just say it right now. Okay. Well cause everyone had to know exactly what you knew in that moment to read this. This is what I'm built for. I want everyone to know everything that's ever helped me. Jack. So maybe if you just listened it wouldn't be so insufferable. It's our, we're the ones wrong. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm just smiling. I can't help myself with that part. We were talking about resistance to new information. Yeah. Yup. That's where it comes from. But it's not the information. It's the message. That's what it is. So go ahead and tell your bad story. So, so I come back, I'm on fire, but we're just, you know, I had the outlet for it. I was supposed to be training people. So, you know, I had brought, uh, you know, round tables and people working together in group work and I'm sure looking back at it, I would be embarrassed to even see what it looked like, you know, with what I know now and, and all that. But it certainly started to light things up and all of a sudden training wasn't as boring. And we started seeing some results in the company and, uh, and we started to see some success and some growth. And that's right around the time I you, and that was, um, you know, timid invited Brian cranny and his company to come down for morning meeting and he said, you know, we've got this trainer here that we think you guys would enjoy. And it was the same time that you were coming in for your first consulting trip as a business coach. Yeah. You become a business coach and you were, I didn't know you, but we were going to get the opportunity to meet you and um, and you were coming in. And so I prepared like one, you know, like extra prepared but for this morning meeting and built a family feud style morning meeting. And that was our first introduction and it was fun stuff. And Brian cranny took me aside after the meeting and he goes, kid, I want you to know that you got something special. And he said, yup, I'll never forget it. He said it, but he threw some swear words in there too. We all, yeah. I mean, I know Brian Craney, there's, yeah, there's a few things we won't, Sam, the FCC would, would it be all over your podcast? So, no, he was, I mean, it was pretty special stuff. And that was, you know, that was one of the first examples of the PO, like next star, right. Cause this is how the members work together. So just the idea that Tim would open his meeting to a local member and that, you know, we'd be sharing ideas and that this member would then, you know, be kind enough to say something to another, you know, just like, buddy, keep doing what you're doing. You know, you're doing the right thing here. It was just an amazing experience. Yeah. And I think you even might've complemented it in your own Lutheran way, but I said it was okay or something like that. But that wasn't terrible. It wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be like that. Yeah. Backhanded compliment. I wanted to get you to puffed up. No, no danger that after seven years here.

Speaker 1: 34:21

So. All right. So now you're, you're starting to get, uh, you know, you're the training leader at winters. You starting to train some different companies and then, um, you are asked to become a, uh, member trainer at Nexstar. Is that right? Tell me about that.

Speaker 2: 34:37

Yup. And that was, that was another, you know, powerful moment you asked to be a member chain on how it sort of yeah. And that was because I had watched, um, so things transitioned. The company, we bring in a new GM guy named Greg Murphy who was one of the original founders and he comes in and uh, and about two weeks after he arrives, I'm thinking this is the best thing that ever happened. Cause he's interviewing everybody and learning what they do. And yeah, I'm thinking, I'm showing pretty well. But two weeks after he arrived, he says, uh, he calls me and he says, look, we're eliminating the trainer role from this company. And you can either go back in a truck or you can start the HVHC division for us. And that was something I had no background and we weren't doing, we weren't doing HVC sales or install. And, uh, man, I just, you know, I think the idea of going backwards into a truck was just too much for my ego to handle. It's not backwards, but that's what it feels like. Right. You know, if you're, you're, and by the way, I think that's important for companies to realize because the minute you make somebody a service manager or trainer or anything like that, if I can just say this, you know, and you, and they start dressing different, you start wearing the polo shirt and you get to come to work dressed up a little bit and you're not in the technician uniform that day of putting that technician uniform on again, feels like a step backwards. Even the phrasiology it would go back in the truck. Exactly. Right. And even when an owner says, I went back in the truck for a week, right. It's just the phraseology is, is bad. A great, great point. Yeah. You know? And so, so my ego being what it was and, and you know, also being up for a challenge, I said, you know what? Let's do it. Let's do this HPAC thing. Wow. So G, Oh, I'm sorry if anyone can spell it, it's you Jack. So, so we go back into the the, you know, so we go into this moment and I'm like, all right, I'm going to do HPAC, you know, and whatever. And uh, so they send me off to to see Dan freeze and teach HPAC sales down in Philly. And I have an amazing experience down there. It's my second exposure to Dan, but first time in a long, you know, just him for three days and he's incredible. And he tells a story along the way about with bill Raymond, uh, another next star training, our original member trainer. I think if we go back as far as we can, that bill Ray, you know, he had seen bill train and Dan said to bill along the way, if there's ever an opportunity I can give back for all that you've given me, let me know. And that was how Dan became a member trainer. And so I went up to Dan after the class and I said, Dan, if there's ever a way that I can give back for all you've given me, let me know. Right. And that was, um, and so, uh, some time will go by and then I got a chance to do an opportunity to do a webinar. Um, Sherry Benefield reached out to Dan first worked at next door at the time, right? She was the training and events manager, M, E, D, T. and she said, ah. And so she reached out to Dan and Dan said, you know, who might be a good candidate for this? Is that guy Keith McCurry, a lot of Boston to do a webinar to do the webinar. And it was my first chance to do that. So I was asked to build a PowerPoint, which going back to my skill set is about the most. That is pure torture to me. Yeah. But the hardest thing in the world to do. Uh, and so I, I bought a six pack of Budweiser and, uh, brought a 10 a dip into the room and I sat down and I spent like a week of nights doing that to try to build like a 20 minute PowerPoint. Okay. And that was my first shot at, at next star training. And I didn't want, I wasn't good, I guess, you know, again, embarrassing product now. No doubt. But it was a mouth that is excellent. Yeah. It was enough to get their attention. And then we had trainer camp, which, you know, so this was, this was the early days and they bring in to essentially that I thought I was there to audition, to be a trainer, to be a trainer. So this was a like a three or four day away trip in a rented a house and you did some skills development and trainer training and drink and whatever else you did. Well, it was all of that. And it is this, by the way, is this possibly interesting, this story to people? Your story? Yes. I think. Why do you think this just feels, it feels anyway. Okay. So, uh, you know, so

Speaker 1: 38:39

I think it's an interesting, Keith is my hope is that as people listen to this, that they can, they can feel some of their own experiences through this that they can learn. It goes, I, I find, I'm just gonna stop for a second here, that the great thing about these podcasts for me is that everyone's got a story. And I have learned so much just this, this podcast is forced me to not talk as much as it hurt, which I just stopped you to talk, but it's okay. But to listen, and then, so this, this your, your journey to get to this point. My hope is that there's people out there saying, that's me, or that's my son, or that's this guy that I work alongside and I'm gonna make, I'm gonna forward this to him and not tell him he has to listen to this, but I'm going to encourage him to listen. And so yeah, I think that, that I've learned a ton through this endeavor.

Speaker 2: 39:26

Yeah. Well, and I love listening to them. I guess that's probably just my insecurity, thinking how could this possibly be interesting. All right. So thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 39:34

Cast is about me interviewing one person. It's not about class. We're not going to go do a scope practice or a

Speaker 2: 39:40

flip chart exercise. Keith, you know right now, I don't know if I'm contributing anything right now. I should stop right now and do a flip chart exercise. That's so true. It's like the internal timer. No one should talk this long. All right. So, um, so you're at this training and this is a big deal. So, and this again, another turning point in my life cause it was my buddies, my good friend's bachelor party was going to be in Las Vegas that weekend and I get invited to this training camp and I had to tell him, I go, man, this is the most important thing I've ever gotten the opportunity to do. I was like, there's nothing I've ever wanted more than being a member trainer for Nexstar. Yeah. And I was like, please understand how badly I want to be at your party, but I'm going to think this could be a big deal for me. So he still holds that against me, which is hilarious cause he knows what in the end, what it's all meant for me. But I went down there and I had the chance to get up in front of, um, Tammy Ferris and bill Raymond and Dan freezes are all either full time trainers or member trainers or Kenny Chapman, right. Legends to me, the people who had completely, and then we had Sherry there and Sandy was there, Sandy Erickson, Erickson, uh, Jacob Jacob's Dickson says, yeah, that's right. And um, and so they are, they're all there and it's a living room and I've got a chance to deliver a 15 minute piece of content and in my mind to wow them. Right. And have my shot. And I got up and I brought this whole unique thing about a hiring process and a job fair. And it was illustrated and it was totally, it was using participant centered methodology to hire people. Yeah. It was a creation that came from the workshop with Cindy. And like something that I thought was brilliant and you know, industry changing and earth shattering. And I delivered my presentation and then I got my feedback and I mean I got shredded. Okay. I completely bombed, totally bombed on this presentation and I was heartsick about it, right? So I'm like, okay. At the end of it, Sherry says, uh, anyone who wants to go again tomorrow, we're going to give you the opportunity to rework your presentation and deliver it again and get additional feedback. And so I think the only two who decided to do that were me and Kenny. And so I went to work on this thing and I'm like, I'm going to nail this. This is my, this is my last shot. I gotta hit this or else I'm not going to get to be a trainer for Nexstar. And I go up and I get back up and I deliver it and I bomb just as bad the second time. And I remember I walked out of there, I was like, I can't believe that I, I blew this. I can't believe this op. I blew this opportunity. I called my parents and told them. I was like, yeah, I just totally, I blew it guys. You know, I miss my shot. And um, it was actually Kenny Chapman called me when I landed back in Boston and he goes, brother, I just want you to know you're in, you know, you're, you're completely in and share who go on to explain to me. She goes, Keith, it was never not dishing based on skill. It was, you know, we want to see what you had and, and she said, uh, she said, but the fact that you got up and did it again, it was all we needed to know. Hmm. Very cool. Yeah. Cause again, I failed my way into being a trainer for next door. You know what it was, but it was with the, the commitment. And that was the thing that had evolved in me was like a commitment to, to being excellent and to, and to going for the stuff that scared me.

Speaker 1: 43:02

It's funny, Keith, you know, if I can say this and maybe this is another reason why these talks can be interesting for folks, is you know, I hadn't met you by this time and I had seen you speak, you know, at winter's and a few places. Maybe maybe you had spoken at a training event for next door. Maybe I, maybe I listened to Webber, but I never in a moment thought you were anything less than extraordinary. Hmm. So I'm wondering if in that moment that you think you've maybe maybe a bombed, I don't know. I don't think you know what I,

Speaker 2: 43:36

they're call bill Raymond Hill corroborates. He loves telling people this story of how I bombed.

Speaker 1: 43:41

Okay, well you always felt to meet Keith. I guess maybe this is a good story then, is that it always felt to me that you're from the front of the room. Talent was God-given, that you were so good at it. I remember you got up and spoke once at an early meeting of next door. I think you were just on staff and Frank Blau was next to me. And of course, Frank can hear if you're playing a trumpet, he could Harbor here. You're right. But he leaves to me, he goes, this guy's good. He says, I'd like to stage whisper like, Oh, just really fucking God. So I want you to know that even though this was a right about right after that time, now we had, you had started now training for next. So let's just, so I want you to know this, that I always thought you'd gift was God given that it was something that you, you woke up and just had. And I think in some level it is, but it's good to know that people watch you and think. No, there was a time where Keith really was lousy when he first started doing that, which he is so gifted to do. It wasn't great. Right. You know, one of the things that, that um, John Maxwell said, he said, people come to me and, and say how I want to do what you do. It should be this great speaker. And John Maxwell says, do you want to do what I've done to be, to do what I do? And he says, I've done, I've spoken 12,000 times in front of people and you know, if I do something 12,000 times, I better be good at it. Does that make sense? Are you showing service system? Probably 20 times a year. Oh, more than that. Well once a week. That'd be every other week.

Speaker 2: 45:13

Yeah. No, it was about, because I mean I average about three times a week on service system meet or three times a month. Excuse me.

Speaker 1: 45:21

Yeah. Right. So someone's watching you. Some guys, guys, guy's well and I mean this great respect. You have a God given talent and then you apply yourself, I think to being better every time you do it and it, and by the time someone watches it, they think, God, this guy's amazing. But you've done that repetitively and consistently and always seeking to improve that what you do already. Very well. Does that make sense, Keith?

Speaker 2: 45:48

Yeah. Yes. Thank you. Cause it's, it's funny, I, I've always found myself, um, if someone comments on how matched really talented I am as a speaker, I'm offended by that. And if they comment on how hard I've worked, uh, I'm offended by that. I need to get both compliments to be somehow okay with you are exhausting all 100% and this is what I would say is the next part of that because, and I've shared this with you and you know this, but this is just, this is flat out my insecurity. Like I have such a strong sense of insecurity that I'm obsessive about my work. That's because I get it. It's like, and when people say that they like dream about it, that's not an exaggerate I dream. I dream talks, I dream about failing. I dream. I mean constantly like I had one last night, an ongoing dream and I'm not, you just have to believe me that this is no hyperbole. Like I will literally spend entire nights and weeks leading up to presentations, dreaming about them and obsessing over them. And can we share something between us? Oh boy, no, that we have shared together

Speaker 1: 46:58

the, we come into the office and we say things like, I had my first super media nightmare. Oh yeah. Right. Where I'm dreaming that I'm on the stage and I do something really stupid. Is there any, you know, I'm at, you know, I know I have a public job and I don't love the stage by, no, I have to do it, so I'm not a, yeah, I would never be a member trainer, let's just put it that way. But I'd still, I get the, there is people don't get, when you actually stand in front of 50 people, the anxiety, not in that moment as much as the anxiety leading up to that moment. Yeah. Yeah. It's the, you know, when you're standing in front of a super meeting crowd of 800 people, when you're talking, it's not bad. It's the weeks leading up to it as you're dreaming of all the things that will go wrong or the things that could potentially go wrong. And I've, I've literally, I should have had counseling, right? I think I've worked through it. I think I should have, I should have gotten professional help.

Speaker 2: 47:56

That applies to you on so many levels. What a different world it would be. But, but you know, that's part of that I think we share in that like we both have this obsession over the quality of the work and what we deliver to people and you know, and, and that's, I mean, that is so real though. Those nightmares. I had one where I, I dreamt that I had delivered, um, what was Al Gore's thing? The uh, internet, not the internet. The, the one that he did on global warming. What was that? What was that called? Uh, earth in the balance of something like that. And for some reason I was delivering Al Gore's content to a Nexstar meeting room. And when they turned the lights on, everyone had left and it was, and everyone was like, why would you choose to train that too? And I don't even, I mean, I don't know where it came from. These are the bizarre things that like you go through in the, in the lead ups, but the obsessive element of it is, is so real. And I will say the anxiety leading up to it is something that I now, and you know, this is a part of, of the transition. Like you, you realize something special is happening if it's uncomfortable, right? So lean into the discomfort, right? We train it, but we have to live it and in order to do it, um, but I will say

Speaker 1: 49:15

it losing an audience that's,

Speaker 2: 49:18

that's pretty intense. So, you know, you were saying, yeah, for the most part when it's going well, it's the best. Like it's the best feeling in the world when you're totally present to the audience and they're just laughing at every joke and they're getting every line. Right. But when you lose an audience, man, that is when I lose an audience that isn't, that's an ugly experience

Speaker 1: 49:35

and it's happened. Oh yeah. Right. And, but you know what is, you'll lose an audience audience and it's bad and you try to get it back and you're skilled enough that you don't lose it for long, Keith. Right. Um, but nothing, nothing lives in[inaudible]. I guess you know from advice here too is that the anxiety is always worse than reality, right? So I've learned that, you know, 26 years running a Nexstar now, you know, 70 some super meetings of sorts of big national events that I've been to and never once in all those 70 events has it ever been as bad is my least uncomfortable anxiety dream that I had leading up to it. Now maybe those causes to prepare, right? Cause they, you know, the number one they need to do to, to have a good presentation is to make sure you know your content and don't be, don't you know, the, the, the challenges I've had is when I thought I had it figured out and then I got upfront and realized I didn't have it figured out. Right.

Speaker 2: 50:29

And, and by the way, that was Jack's phone ringing in the background. If you heard that, which is a very rare occurrence here. You notice that's been going this for 50 minutes. First time my phone rang or time anyone needed, anything from me was awesome by the way, is pretty special yourself in this position. Pretty cool. So, you know, I think that is part of it too is like letting that anxiety fuel. So I know that, that I accept that my insecurity, my need to be approved of is one of the greatest gifts I've ever been given. And I, you know, I mean I want to continue to be just at peace with myself as a human being, but I do put immense worth in the work that I do. And so, you know, this, this is the transition I guess, cause we were, we were talking about like when I first started at the front of the room, I, when I first wanted to be a trainer, it was so I could be at the front of the room. Yeah. For the attention to the, it was perfectly selfish reasons for being a completely selfish get it. But I would tell it, you know, I would say all the right things. I was self aware enough to, to say, why do I want to be a trainer? I want to help people grow. Yeah. Make people better. I want to give back. Right. So I change lives. Totally. You know, and it was only through that like, you know, that kind of serious personal development work that you were previously mocking. Um, that I had gone off and done the trainings that I'd done that I came to just this like remarkable discovery of how inauthentic that was. And by having one core reason but putting something else out there like it was right, right. And so I got really clear with the reason I do this is for me, yeah, I'm not doing this for others. Right? I don't, I don't stand up and train for other people. I stand up and train for me because what I've discovered is that like when you fully show up and you're willing to do the work first and then be totally authentic with people about your own vulnerability, your own fears, your own anxieties, that all of a sudden everyone gets to see themselves in you and in your journey and in your struggling, in your battle. And it inspires them. And so that inspiration and the impact that my work has on others is the greatest gift I've ever been given. And so it was like I had to get completely honest that I'm doing this for me and therefore the impact it has on others fuels me. And that was, I like the phrase, it's a little teachy but it's like authentic with my inauthenticity, you know, like just get real with the fact that I was pretending this was about others when it was really about me and suddenly it actually became about others when I got that.

Speaker 1: 53:03

That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's good. That's good. You've uh, you haven't shared that recently or at all, that whole thing. And I like that it makes a lot of sense and I, and I think that, you know, um, you know, for me, Keith, the, there I've, I've seen, you know, they're all saying is you don't want to meet your idols. Right. So I've seen a lot of people that I've seen have been good speakers and I've really got to spend a little time with them cause I hire them so much. Right. They didn't realize that I don't like these guys, these women. Right. Not all of them. Yeah. There's a handful that are really like, but this is really cool. Who specifically who did not like, um, Michael Gerber.

Speaker 2: 53:45

Awesome. I didn't actually think I was going to get you to name a name that was really one back back in the day from the email. It was like, right. People have modeled their whole careers after that book.

Speaker 1: 53:54

But I tell who I loved recently, I loved John Maxwell and believe it or not, I do not believe it or not. I love John Taffer when I spent time with him one-on-one, you know, I wasn't, you know, I loved John Maxwell stage presentation and I loved the time I spent with John, uh, one-on-one, but I really enjoyed, um, John Taphorn

Speaker 2: 54:15

staffers and awesome guy. Do you think it's cause you related to Maxwell as a peer? I mean the age is Howard or some minister self-proclaimed in one regard, but yeah. No, I just think that, that, I think that

Speaker 1: 54:28

what I think was the reason I say that is I think that people haven't got as far along in where you did to become self aware, to become real with the, the motive then to really think back on, on the work they're doing is actually feeding others and helping others and then being okay with how that feeds them, but still living into what it's doing for others. I, it's, it's, I like the, the, the circle that you've went through here, right? So I think so often it is about the stage for people. It is about the bright lights. It is about the, the, the clapping and the laughter and, uh, the adulation and the book signing and all these other things. And that's what feeds him. And in the end it becomes, uh, the, the rest of us become, uh, you know, rotating around their solar system and it's, and that's the, that's what I don't like about public personalities. I do like what I just heard from you though, right? Which is, Hey, I'm at, you know, to, to want the stage, you know, that's, uh, that is in my mind, uh, look at me. Need. Right. And I don't mean that in a negative way, so just admit it. That's what I want. I want to be in the front of the room. I want to help. I want to be looked at. I want to be, I want, I want the applause of men. I remember there was, I was going to a very large church in Memphis and the minister said, one of my biggest failings is I just love the applause of men. And he was, uh, a magnetic speaker and he just knew it. That this is my weakness to on grade up here, but it's also a weakness, right? So I think that if you acknowledge it right, you can work through it. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 56:03

Yeah. 100. And that's like the, there's a saying, uh, in, in some of the training that I've, I've worked on where, you know, these, these weaknesses, um, these insecurities and so on, that the only way out is through, right? And there's no way around it and you don't, when I was saying, Oh, I'm here for everyone else, it was like I was, it was a work around because I didn't want to acknowledge that I would be so self centered that I would be doing this work for me. And so then the like to your point, the only way out was through, it's like, no, this is exactly why I'm doing it because this is what fuels me, this is what gives to me. But then what you discover is to, to really make it work. There's, there's two critical things and one is it, it has to have an impact. You know, if it doesn't work, if what I'm teaching or sharing or speaking on doesn't actually change something than it was then it was only fleeting and therefore it was never real. So it has to work. So I became obsessed with how do I make it work? How do we make it stick? How does this actually have an impact? And so the applause is only the initial feedback. There has to be the result on the other end of it or else it feels abs. It's like we just got some stats back on some videos that we send out after training. Um, these, this six week video series. Yeah. And it by the sixth week, only like 20% or 10% of the original participants are watching them again, made me sick to my stomach and those classes are scored 4.9 fours and whatever. And the immediate feedback is I'm going to go do it. I found out this and now this is my new obsession because it's like, wait, this means that people aren't still sticking with what we taught six weeks later that's or aren't willing to watch it or it's not good enough. I don't know what it is yet, but I'm going to find out. Right. So like it has to, it has to work. That's one part. And the second part is it has to be real. And meaning that if I'm not doing the work that I'm asking people to do, I can't speak it with any integrity. And if someone ever liked something, like if I said something that I wasn't really doing or wasn't real about and someone liked it, it would, it would diminish me. I couldn't because that insecurity in me, that imposter syndrome is so real. That fear that I'll be discovered to not be who people think I am. Yeah. It's so real that it drives, it actually drives my life to live the things I teach and it makes me a better person because of that. Because I can't teach these things if I don't do them with any sort of of integrity or authenticity. Right. And that's why I've always did this job and like working here, this is the best thing that ever happened for the development of my life because by having these audiences, it forces me to do things like, you know, look after my health or you know, be be living in integrity and, and these things that I otherwise could get away with. Right. If I wasn't so publicly sharing them. Right. Right. That's so cool. Yeah, that is really is and it's a great thing, you know, next door we have a rule here that we eat our own cooking, right? Does, that means if we're going to, we're going to have to teach something in a management class or leadership class, know that we have done that and using it ourselves. So we teach one-on-ones, we teach all these, you know, how to create guiding principles and how to do all vision and mission, vision and, and it's so true. You know, that, that

Speaker 1: 59:22

it's, they say the best way to learn something is to teach the content. And I think part of the reason for that is because you have to do it right? Right. You actually have to live into it. You know, if you want to sell good lesson there too. You know, if you're listening to this and running a company, you know, teach some content that you want your team to do, don't just send them away. If somebody says, if you want someone to, you know, you want to teach leadership, you know, you're, you're the instructor, you're not the travel agent. Meaning, what are, you don't just buy him a ticket and go to next door, his leadership class, and they come back and you're not living into what's what's taught. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 59:57

Yeah. Well, and that's, you know, we see that with our company so often that they send people off and they say, okay, they're trained now and we don't realize that, you know, again, the one of the most common anchors of someone's identity is the environment that they're in. They didn't, they're not going to transform in three days and come back a different human being inside the same environment that, you know, is still has dispatchers, you know, calling them up and saying, why, why haven't you finished this job yet? Or they're giving them four tickets every morning and saying, go run these things. Or they come back and there's just not the support of the management and ownership. And, um, and that's why, you know, we've shifted our focus here towards the management training and leadership training in the organization because you know, that we're training all these technicians, but they're not all going back into fruitful environments that support what they've learned. Yeah. That's awesome. You know, and so that's what they need. They need that support. And that's what, you know what I mean, to just speak to it. That's the culture here, you know, is that we live business excellence as we teach business excellence. And so when I returned from a training, I know I'm in an environment that's gonna support that. Yeah. You know, and, and so that, that raises the bar for everybody.

Speaker 1: 1:01:04

Yeah, it does. It does. Well, we're, we have our failings here too is on this, I was just listening to you thinking that, uh, we're talking like next door and in our leadership is perfect and it certainly isn't, but it's a journey.

Speaker 2: 1:01:16

Yeah. Why do you think I always come back sharing this stuff for my training? Jack.

Speaker 1: 1:01:21

Thank you, Keith. Thank you. So I'm going to, we're going to start to bring this to a wrap here cause I'm Keith, I want to do some more of these because there's a lot more, um, that you've learned on the road that you've learned as you've, as you've seen technicians, as you've seen managers did you develop, cause we just took it right up. We haven't even got to the point where we're hired by nextdoor yet. All right. Full time. Right, right. You're still a member trainer in, in this journey now we kind of kind of left that path and kind of went off on a few things we've learned along the way. But I've, I've enjoyed the heck out of this, Keith and I see all the time and uh, a lot of this, I've heard a lot of it. I haven't. So we see each other. We don't talk to each other that much though. So this is nice. I like to have a, I like to talk when I want to talk.

Speaker 2: 1:02:06

So you do a great job with these and this is, this is really cool to get the chance to sit down and boy do I hope, you know, I hope some way, I love the way you said that, that you know, people can see it there, their son or their brother or something like

Speaker 1: 1:02:20

that. And then, well, here's what it's going to happen, Keith. This is what I want to have happen and see themselves and brother, they're going to continue. They're going to, if you go to our website right now, there's literally probably a hundred videos with you talking about some element of the service system or some element of sales or customer service or leadership or management or whatever. Um, they're going to send their technicians away and they're going to say, wow, this guy at the front of the room is big, tall, swarthy guy without a place tan in Minnesota in the middle of winter. He's the guy. He was amazing. Here's what I think is going to happen if I listen to this podcast the next time I listened to your video. The next time I see you at a service system, the next time I send my people away, I'm going to listen more than it would have without it. Cool. Because that's what's cool. It's about no one w why you were selected and why you've earned the right to be at the front of the room. Right. And you know, your journey is, is, is what's made you special. It's what's made you unique. It's what, uh, you know what w w we love, right? And it also, to me, it gives me a reason to listen beyond just, I got some, I'm a, I'm a glib man. I'm a tall, handsome guy. I can speak well. Therefore I'm going to talk on this content. Now you've lived the content, right? Which is so cool, right? So I think that you're an awesome messenger for an amazing message and thank you for all you do, Keith. Thank you Jack. That was, that's as fine a compliment as I could receive from that role based on everything that I shared with this. So, very good. Awesome. So we'll do more of these. Okay. I would love to. Awesome. And we, this might be the longest, one hour and three minutes and 51 seconds and counting here, but I've enjoyed every second of it. So thank you again, Keith, and thank you all for listening to another episode here of leadership lounges, Jack tester with Keith material. We'll sit kitchen next time and we'll see on the road at a training event with people. Talk to you soon.