Leadership Lounge with Jack Tester
Leadership Lounge with guest John McQuillan
Hi, this is Jack tester and welcome to another edition of leadership lounge sitting across the desk. Crummy is a person that's very familiar with in next door. Mr John McQuillan. How are you doing, John? Joe? Well, what's up Jack? How's it going? I'm glad you're here. I'm glad to be here. That's cool. Definitely. Well, you're local and you just rolled in for this. I didn't have to catch you on a trip thing coming by. Oh my gosh. Anytime brother. I'm all in. I know you are. Let me tell you, this guy's a bundle of energy. He is fired up for this and he's got an interesting story. I don't want to, I don't want to give it away, but uh, he's got a lot. So first tell us the name of your business that you're one of the owners of today. So it's McQuillan brothers plumbing, heating and cooling. We're in st Paul at Weill Maplewood, so about 15 minutes North of Nexstar headquarters. You have got a distinction. McQuillan is the oldest plumbing and heating company in Minnesota. Is that accurate? Yes. So my great, great grandfather started it in 1883. That's incredible. No pressure, no pressure. Don't say they usually say the third generation screws it up. I don't know what the fifth though. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well actually there's a story within McQuillan. I don't know if a cover all that, but uh, so congratulations. You're running a storied business, you know, um, you know a lot of these old buildings in st Paul, which is an old town, you're some family member probably put the steam heating system in those things. It's actually crazy. We did the, uh, the entire city of Duluth. We laid out all the, all the steam work. I mean, so we have a lot of rich heritage here. It's funny, our shop, originally it was downtown off Jackson and then they moved to the country, which was up by the cathedral, which is right in the middle of the city now. Right. Well let me tell you just real quick, do you ever walk into a, an old building and see the handiwork? Either see up, I don't know what some, some indication that one of your forgone, we have a lot of, um, if you go like even in James J. Hill also a lot of the older homes, uh, they've got a, they used to put these little brass tags on all the valves so you'll see old McQuillan brothers tags from, you know, 19 hundreds. So that's gotta be amazing. Like you're seeing like a history of your family. Yeah. I actually, my cousin just dropped off a picture that he found in my great, great grandfather and it's our first service van and it's him on Laurel and nine are right up the road in a horse drawn carriage with a roll of led pipe in the back. Really? Like just, it's incredible. Wow. That is cool. Yeah. I mean your, the, the, the history of your family in this business and um, and but, but the reality is, um, you getting into a position of ownership of McQuillan wasn't a straight line. Right? You didn't go from high school to, to an apprenticeship program. Then I went to business school right on the business. Summa cum laude. eBay and it was just easy ever
Speaker 2:didn't happen, right? No. So let's this, cause I think this is part of the fun journey here and we're gonna we're going to go back there, but first just so people get a sense of, uh, kind of where we are today. Just describe McQuillan as it sits today. So McQuillan brothers right now, um, we finished a year just shy of$10 million in revenue. Um, we do plumbing, heating and air conditioning. Uh, we do drains but don't do sewers. Uh, we did sewers a couple of years ago, but got out of it. We just got to get our bearings. So, uh, total people on payroll is 38. Um, yeah, it's cool. It's a wonderful place you're doing. I know you, you had some struggles recently, but you've, you're, you're doing well right now and definitely as part of this story. But I want to go back because, uh, you told me some things as you sat at my desk before I turned the mic on about where you were and what you were doing. And it's like, okay, that's definitely not a straight line. So when did you get into the trade? Let's go back into the trade. Um, you know, I went on my first service call with my dad when I was, yeah, I mean, I was 10, 11 years old and I'm down in these buildings downtown st Paul. Um, we used to do a lot of commercial work. Um, I remember like he'd get me a pipe wrench cause we'd go into these old abandoned buildings and he was like, if someone jumps out, I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like, what are we doing? Right, right. Um, but then, uh, you know, my dad never pushed me into the industry ever. Uh, really. I was, I kinda did my own thing for awhile. But, uh, high school, I'd be a summer helper. I'd help out, you know, cleaning fittings, uh, just keeping the shop clean, running service calls. Um, then I went to college for a little bit. Uh, it didn't last, well, not like academic learner at all. Like, I mean, I think I still hold the record at st Thomas. I got like a 0.7 GPA. Like it was horrible. Um, but when I went to trade school, um, I graduated top of my class. I'm a very kinesthetic learner, so yeah, like a lot. I can tear apart a boiler, like show me how to do it and I got it. Give me a book to read. Oh my gosh. Like yeah, like I'm going to find someone to teach me out of high school. Like, like a lot of people you put into your, you went to college. Yup, exactly. A Sterling student there. Right. This semester in college failed miserably and I ended up moving. I moved to Arizona shortly after that. Did you go to trade school first? I went to trade school in Arizona, so I went to Arizona. I started working at another Nexstar shop. Christian brothers. Okay. Um, so I was down there. I worked there for a couple of years before they're a part of next door, by the way. Yeah. Well they were w I don't even know, long time ago, whatever it was. Cause you're buying, what are you about 40 years old clothes and clause 37. Wow. Sorry about that. Oh my gosh. You look older. Silver Fox jacket know what's up, when you see where this is going. So I'm sorry to interrupt. So go ahead. Um, so yeah, went on to Arizona, uh, was going to be a real estate mogul. Um, so I told my dad, I'm done. I'm never doing the trades. I'm going to be a real estate gazillionaire, um, now less than about six months. And I called my dad and came up, got some tools, um, and got a job at a plumbing shop in Arizona. Yup. Started working at Christian brothers and just saw the opportunity to get into heating and air conditioning. Um, so I put myself through a school down in Phoenix called refrigeration school. Um, was down there for a couple of years and then ended up coming home and then got into the local union, um, and went through the pipe fitter apprenticeship, uh, and worked for my dad's shop. Uh, that whole time as a German pipe fitter. Got through the apprentice program there and then, uh, I ended up leaving, uh, the shop again. I went and I worked in the, at Minneapolis, uh, they have a steam crew that works in the vaults and does feel that steam works. So I worked there for a couple of years, um, and then decided again, we're not doing the trades. Um, so my wife and I, we had children at the time. Uh, we ended up moving back down to Arizona. Um, and I got into farming. Actually I, I was the, I pretty much ran the, uh, Schnapp farm for anyone that's familiar in the Phoenix area. So it's the largest organic peach farm. Uh, did a bunch of peach farming. Um, it was fun until peach season ended. And then, Oh my gosh, Jack, now I'm like going through memories of yeah, know, then got done farming and uh, they had, uh, they had a cemetery as well, so I was a grave Digger for awhile.
Speaker 1:Okay. And did that just, I'm a pretty emotional guy and when they, they like they didn't watch anybody else's enrollment. I had to be present at the funerals. No, you, this is terrible. I like called my wife. I'm like sitting on the back hole, like crying to my wife. I'm like, I can't do this. Like back. You start your underground work. Yeah. Wow. Um, but at the time I had a really good friend who owned a bamboo nursery in Northern California, bamboo nursery. Yep. So, um,
Speaker 2:so we ended up selling all of our belongings and bought a 10 by 12 Kodiak canvas tent and moved to the mountains of California. Um, my youngest was three and my twin daughters were four and we moved to the mountains and lived off the land for just about a year. Um, pumping water out of the Creek. Uh, we had a tankless propane water heater hung on the side of a tree. I've got pictures of my kids like taking baths and Tupperware, but, uh, I dug an outhouse, like just a, a big hole in the ground and made a bamboo wall. And, uh, we lived off the land foraged chickens family of five 70 bucks a week. It was legit.
Speaker 1:No way. So what I did know, I knew you're away from the family business. Well, I didn't know you were a hippie. It'd be in the mountains, man. Wait, so what brought
Speaker 2:you back? Um, so my wife's indoor plumbing. Well, so I had started, I had a shop out there, it was called mountainside plumbing. Um, so, uh, you know, I would do about a job a week. I built a couple houses or did you know, I did a fair amount of solar work and pumps. Um, I roughed in a couple of houses, but, uh, we ended up coming back. My, my wife's mom got sick and the kids were starting school. I mean, yeah, like it just had to happen. Um, and winter was coming. I mean, Northern California is not Minnesota, but you know, you can only do so much in a canvas tent. Um, so ended up packing up and uh, and coming home. And I had told my dad I would never work for him again. Um, why is that? Just, I don't know. It just, it's, it's a lot of PR. I mean, family business, anyone that's in a family business can speak to it. Like working for your father can be hard for sure. And my dad's a wonderful person, but it just can be hard cause like the expectations of me were higher than everyone else. And where do they, Oh, and, and you feel, uh, it was just, it was a tough tell me. It's just tough. It's, um, you know, I used to get criticized, Oh, you worked for your dad all. And I, in my mind, I'd be like, you know, what could work for your dad? Like, it's not like I just stroll in as the boss's kid and like do whatever I want. Like, uh, the first boiler ever. Did you know, my dad took me out, he disassembled the boiler and then he said, well, see you later. And he walked, we walked into his truck and left. And it's like, okay, I'm putting up, if we ever get on a Lochinvar our better idea. I got it. I know exactly what to do. Uh, just, it was just a different, that wouldn't have happened to another employee. You don't know. Um, so, um, but my, my dad's, I know he's a good guy. Oh my gosh. I think this is illustrative. I'd like to, you know, so thank you for sharing. Oh my gosh. So you didn't want to do that anymore? No pressure was too much for you. Yeah, and work was intense. You know, my, my dad had gotten embezzled from, um, early 2000 and, you know, lost everything. I mean, it was actually, it really sucked. Um, so now the businesses in, in a firefight, Oh my gosh, it was so intense. Like gotta go sell stuff so that payroll checks don't bounce. And just that pressure, like I didn't own the business and it was really hard. You were owning a lot of though that responsibility. Yeah. And so it was very hard and I gets, you know, I got sick too. Um, I got Lyme disease about a decade ago, 11 years now, living in a tent. I actually had gotten Lyme disease prior to the tents. I was, I was really sick. Um, no, no, you're good. Yeah, I was sick. So, um, so struggled with that too. It just wasn't, it wasn't the right recipe at the time. How old were you then? I got sick when I was 20. How long did you, when did you leave the business home? Oh, I guess I was,
Speaker 1:I had to have been 2022 when I first moved down there. And he came back at what age? 24 and when did you start working for your dad again? When you finally start working for your, you go back to I was like, when I truly came back and was fully committed was when I came back from California about six years ago. Six years ago. Yup. Okay. So your 31 year old man at that point. Yup. Um, family defeat. It was go time. Um, so did things, so, so you came back in and you had all this, this memory of the challenges, the memories of the challenges of, of, you know, the struggling business with a low cash flow. Cause your dad got embezzled and he's, and, and before you said this, your, your father didn't go bankrupt. He paid back everything. So like the ultimate man of character, like dug himself out of a couple million dollars in debt and it took him 12, 14 years to do it. But did it, didn't file bankruptcy and really saved our family name, uh, in our community, cause vendors all talk. So super proud of my dad and blessed, blessed to work for him, for them. And it's, uh, it's funny cause when my dad, you know, family businesses can be tough. So my dad lost a lot of his family through the transition in business. And, um, I think going through that, it's created this, this bond between us that's like, you know, the last thing I want is to see family fallout from business transition. So as we've gone from, you know, the fourth to the fifth generation now it's been very open and transparent with my family, my brothers and sisters and my dad is one of my closest friends. Sure. Awesome. So it's just been a blessing to be able to go through that together and not have fallout so. Well, yeah. And I'm going to share something here because you know, there was a time when I first, uh, when I first met your father, it was years ago when before I was with this organization and he was one of the principals of McQuillan. And then they had a split and he started his own business and some other family member was running McQuillan and then McQuillan went out of business. Yeah. Shut its doors. The business you now run. Yeah. And your business was called foremost, that one John sr was running. Yeah. And you guys bought the name back or got the name back somehow and now you're, so you're back running the business that you didn't run, went out of business. You re you took it back again under the, your name with McQuillan run by a McQuillan. Yeah. Which is cool. It's been very neat. It's, you know, it's, and it's, yeah, it's just been a fast, a lot of family there. And I knew, and I don't want to go there cause there's a whole bunch of it. We can do like six more podcasts. But what I'd be interested in though, I think is, is there was the experience you had as a young person that caused you to go to Arizona and then caused you to go back to California, cause you to, to, to go work for those city Minneapolis, but then you came back, right. And now you were in the business and you are working somebody
Speaker 2:who had, you know, there was issues with, and I'm not 100%. Yeah. What changed you? Him, what? So I, um, so my dad's changed. I think, you know, just life, you grow up, you change. Um, you know, what changed for me really was, uh, I've always been like on a mission to try and find more, be more, do more. Um, and when I came back from California, I think I'd been back two months and my dad was like, we gotta, you know, um, I joined this organization, next star, you gotta come check it out. Um, and we came to a regional event and actually Josh Savage from hero was hosting it. And I just watched Josh and the other guys that were there. And I was like, you know what, if these guys can do it, I can do it. Um, it was just, I mean, it was like he's my age. I just, I instantly saw like this refined man that had like, same thing, generational business. He had bought it from his father and created something amazing. Um, so my dad actually left to go to the restroom when they asked who would host the next one. And I volunteered and I didn't know anything. Like Jack, I was two months back. Oh my gosh, you're still sleeping in a tent, sleeping in a tent, bro. Yeah. Um, but then we jumped in all in with, uh, with Nexstar. Um, and it wasn't all easy, like the last, you know, even, you know, I was joking with you last time I was in, um, you know, if you'd asked me two years ago what an income statement was or a P andL like, I didn't, I legitimately didn't know. I didn't, I knew nothing about business. I knew that I was very top line focused. Um, like I had this, this$10 million, Oh, I gotta get to$10 million cause Josh was there and I, I just had this like idea that that was where I had to get. Um, so the idea of what does it cost to put a truck on the road? Um, accountability. I'm horrible at accountability, like holding people accountable. I'm like 98% yellow on that color code. That's fun. Oh my gosh. But my weaknesses are follow through. I'm naive. Like I sh I struggle being disciplined and consistent and um, and I legitimately struggle with those things. You know, I just did the stuff for leadership, a spotlight. I went through it again, it's like strengths and weaknesses and this just like, man, I gotta I gotta work on my weaknesses cause they're, I, I feel like I dropped the ball off and, um, but I came back and I just wanted to build, I just wanted to build. So my attitude was, the more you sell, the more you make. While we put 10 trucks on the road one year and I hired people and just, they were doing a good job at another shop. So I just assumed that that would just transfer right over to McQuillan and they would be doing a great job here. Well, that's not the case at all. I'm like, you have to hold people accountable and you have to have standards and you have to have like goals and benchmarks. And really, not until this last year did we even have benchmarks. It was just like, what are we, yeah, we just got to go sell more. Um, so it created a really tough financial position. I mean, we've been, we struggled financially. There was, you know, in town locally, people were saying, Oh, McQuillans going to go out of business. Like, it was tough. And I, I dug us into a lot of debt. Um, just trying, just trying to build, yeah. Just trying to build stuff. And even, even lately, like, um, you know, I was, I told you right before this podcast, like before it was like March of last year, I was down over$800,000. Um, and it was, it was, I was with Melanie and Alicia and[inaudible], Darren Gilmore, two of our marketing yeses and one of our members. And we're, we're talking and I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm going to spend a bunch of money on social media. I'm going to Gary V this. Yeah. Yeah. And like, while you should see my energy was like through the roof. And then I got a text from my controller saying we lost$480,000 this month. And it's hard to do. Oh my gosh, Jack. Wow. Insane. And so, you know, I go from like hyped up, like the nonverbals had to have just been incredible to go from like, Oh yeah, I'm going to be Facebook maniac. And then like you are like walking back to his room like, um,
Speaker 1:well let's talk about that because you mentioned that a year ago at this time you had figured out you'd finally got us an accurate financial picture. And when you caught up for some, uh, bookkeeping errors from the prior year, and then the performance in a prior period, you find yourself$800,000 and hundred thousand dollar loss through March. It was brutal. But by, by the end of the year, you, you'd made it all back. Yeah. So you had a really good recovery gash. It's been incredible. And that was in the first quarter. So we, you know, we joke now it's like, Oh my gosh, we lost so much money in the first quarter
Speaker 2:if we just break even this quarter, uh, and continue our performance like we have. Um, cause really after that, and I've got to give a lot of credit, um,[inaudible]
Speaker 1:our director of finance, Theresa is, yeah, she's changed our world. Um, so do you numbers now, you know, you've hired somebody around you that it's good at what you're not particularly good at. Incredible. Is that right? And it's changed. It's changed our world. I mean, she's, it's gone from like trying to look through milk to crystal clear water. It's a good analogy.
Speaker 2:So, so now the ability to, you know, like we can add plumbing trucks and I know that confidently now because our plumbing systems are working. Yeah, we have a profitable plumbing team. And so adding a truck, we can look at what is it going to cost and what is it going to take. And, uh, it's, it's a different business today. I talk different, like I, I speak about the business in a way that I couldn't, you know, it's actually, I was at Digitos with my dad for lunch today and we were talking about
Speaker 1:by their old school, same place.
Speaker 2:Um, but I must've been three years ago I sat down with Josh Savage and, um, he told me, he called me out on it. He said, you know, John, you identify as a pipe fitter, why don't you just be a pipe fitter? And at the time I did, I legitimately did. I, I didn't identify as a business owner. I had the stigma that like, you know, who am I? Like I'm no, and I, I still feel the same way. I'm, I'm no better than anyone. I'm, you know, my skill set is not my skill set is people like when I think of like, what do I do well, I do people really well. I connect with people. I've done a great job assembling a team, but I have weaknesses too. Um, and my weaknesses, I have to hire people whose strengths are my weaknesses. Um, but you said that he said, why don't you just be a pipe fitter and did that cause you to set up and say what? I, I was it like it like RA? I was like, Oh my gosh. Like I do like, um, that was when I started to shift that that moment it was at the green mill in other States.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, you don't want a restaurant.
Speaker 2:Well, and uh, it was like a light bulb went out that was like, Oh my gosh, I, I do identify as a tradesman. I don't look at the business like a business. I look at it like, like, Oh, well, I mean, in my mind I would say stuff like, Oh, well Matt and I, my brother Matt and I just put a boiler in today. It costs like two grand in material and two guys, eight hours. Aw man, my dad just made a bunch of money today. Well, what about like the six days that we didn't do anything right, but we got paid like, um, I get it. So just not even having that lens on. Um, it was that conversation with Josh that really shit shook me up and was like, wow, I gotta I have to start learning the business side. Um, and have struggled, you know, we struggled a lot with the financial leader. Um, I think part of it was that we grew so fast. Yeah. Um, but the other part of it was, you know, I didn't hire well. Um, and I'll be the first to admit it. Um, when, when we went and got, um, worked with a company to find Theresa, it was like, I literally said to the owner, I was like, I've had a controller, I've had a staff accountant, I've had a bookkeeper. Like I need a financial gangster, like someone that can come in and like school me,
Speaker 1:I literally actual gangster, gangster.
Speaker 2:Um, and, um, and we ended up getting Teresa to come on board. And, um, she's really, she's, you know, she's taught me so much about business and you know, I, you know, I, uh, super grateful for Teresa, but the other thing that happened at the same time was we'd went all in. We truly went all in with Nexstar from service systems to marketing to like every, every class that I could attend, we attended. Everyone at our shop has been through service systems, all of our CSRs events, through customer service. Yeah. All of our managers have been through the manager classes. I've been through almost every class. Like it just the, the platform that you guys put together for tradesmen[inaudible] to learn the business side is unmatched. I mean, it's unmatched and it's, it's given me the tools to, to execute a successful business. Let's do this. Thank you for that. That's great to hear. And you know, that's not the purpose of this. But what I'd like to do is if you were to go back, you know, 16 months in a day in the life we can, the life of John McQuillan, we can a life today of a successful business owner, you know, coming out of the hole and making money now, you know, you're doing well in the tough quarter here, doing really good as you described to me. What's the difference in, in behavior or activity that, that you do today that, that you weren't doing or weren't doing well? Um, a little over a year ago, so I, I'm consistently involved with my business coach. Okay. So what, but what do you do with that information then? I put it to action like I, um, a year and a half ago I couldn't have told you our ticket average, our closing rate. I couldn't have told you any of the key metrics that you have to watch. You could just told me the emotion of your men. Everyone's happy, right? And there's no jerks here and we're all while I'm in my office crying, like trying to like put a happy face on because no, we're, we're good. Hey, it's, it's good. You know, what, can I say something? Yeah. You can see through an inauthentic leader like that because the leader has to give good news and bad news. Right? And you can't be just mr happy face when things suck you, you can't know. Right. It's, you think it's your job to never show your emotion or never show a negative or a weakness. That's not true, man. No, and I think part of the strength of our team is being transparent with everyone. Like, okay. Um, I mean I told everyone straight up, I'm like, you know what, you guys, I've made some mistakes. I, I grew this business too fast and it's hurt us. It's hurt us. And I haven't had the guidance and done, yeah. Done the things that I need to do to run a successful business. Um, so the team we have today, uh, our guys that and gals that have stuck with us, um, through really trying times, um, and have really, alright. Yeah. Cool. But I want to go back to my question cause I didn't get an answer yet. Okay. Which is what, what's different cause this, cause here's the thing, you know, when a business improves, it only improves because behaviors change. Yup. There's nothing else that causes it to move. It isn't a good intention. Business coaches going to Nexstar training, none of that stuff matters until you go home and do something different. So something different happened at McQuillan and I'm trying to figure out what the different thing was from 16 months ago that caused such a dramatic, you know, I get that you were right. Let me see a few things that first you were thinking like a pipe fitter. Yup. You didn't know your metrics. Is that right? Yup. Is there anything else? I didn't do anything with them. Okay. Um, so now what do you do with your daily huddle? All right, now we're getting similar. Um, you know, we have an El 10 every week, uh, where we get together[inaudible] what's working, what's not. Um, I meet with our customer service manager probably three times a day, you know, how's the board look? Okay. Focused on, we're focused on our, our call board, making sure we've got the opportunities our operations managers focused on, on the guys performing the way they need to and holding people accountable when, when things are going awry. That wasn't happening before. Oh my gosh. Not at all. Like now we got someplace. That's good. Yeah, I like it. We're operating as a business now. You know what I mean? You were operating as a business, just not a good one to say well plays, right. Cause you had a business, you know, and yet, you know, and I, and I know it was probably, my guess is that you probably did a good job by the customers anyway. Yeah. You know, and, and people love like, like people loved coming to work. It was just, there was no, there was no accountability. There was absolutely zero accountability. And it's still a weakness. We still have a lot of work to do. Sure. Like, um, we're not where we want to be, but we're, we're twice as good as we were and half as good as we want to be. Um, Oh, so that's good. Yeah. I took that from Theresa. So there you go. I like it twice as good as we were and half as good as we want to be. Yes. Yup. I like it. Yup. So there's a lot of work yet to do, but uh, but we're running as a successful, profitable business with tons of opportunity ahead of us. Good question here. Yeah. Now I think about this is that, you know, many of the things you're doing today, John wouldn't have wanted to do four years ago. Right. Cause you're a fun guy. You're a people person. You're not a numbers guy. I guess men in many respects, you hid from that before or you ran from it and not physical or not. No, I hid behind my smile. I haven't done that forever. It's legitimately what I do. Because you didn't think it'd be fun. Yeah. And you didn't think you'd be good at it? Yeah. And I thought, I thought, who am I? How am I to tell a plumber how they should do? I'm not a plumber. I mean, I'm not a, these guys are way I would have people join our organization and I would be like, John is, you know, we had a plumber join that. His name was John. And I thought to myself, John is so much better at his job than I am. Who am I to tell him how to read an invoice out? Who am I to tell him how to, there was no system, there was no plastic on him. So it was just, John did great at a different shop, so he'll do great here. Kevin did great at different shop, so he'll do great here. Yeah. And I relied on, it was like, I had this idea that other people would bring this information in and help us develop what needed to be developed because I to do a hundred percent, hundred percent. Okay. Um, whereas now, uh, I want to learn as much as I can to bring to the organization. So what's changed in me is going from, you know, feeling like truly a year ago, I was sitting on the lunar floor of my house crying to my wife about how I had built a failing business. Sure. Like all I had done great. We did$7 million in revenue, but all I did was rack up debt and give an empty promise to everyone that works there. They all think that we're going to be here forever and I'm just like breaking down. Um, so now today I can look at the business and say I've built something really incredible and I've done it with the team. Like I joke with everyone at McQuillan brothers to say, if, if everyone left, I would go back to fixing boilers. I would go back to, you know, doing that stuff. Cause that's what I'm really good at. I've, I feel blessed to be in the position I am, but without the squad and the people that come to work every day and suit up and show up and bring the thunder. Um, we don't have, we don't have that. Right. Um, so it's so amazing. So to have a team and you go through the same thing here. I mean you just have an incredible team that comes in and, and suits up, shows up, but you set the standard and you have an expectation and we can have fun and we can joke and play, but we have to hit, we have to do our job, we have to do our job. Um, and that's what was missing. We can come and have fun and play, but we have to do our job. Part was, I was, I think I was scared, um, to have to be the bad guy. I felt a lot of, I felt a lot of loss when I went from the field to a manager role. Um, cause I went from part of the crew to now all of a sudden I'm not hearing stuff. Oh, I heard it from someone else that he's met. Like I was like, why? Nobody's telling me stuff anymore. Um, so I felt very alone, even with all my friends. Like it was just, uh, emotionally I was in a different spot. Um, whereas today I found and learned that people want to have goals and people want to have expectations and people want to live up to them because everyone wants to contribute and know that they're a part of something awesome. And helping to build that. Well, if nobody knows that people are just going to do and there's until it goes away, you know, that's so good. You know, cause I was gonna ask you that. I was[inaudible] I think you kind of covered it. Is that the very thing that you thought you didn't want, think he ran away from the accountability, the structure of the, you know, the, the numbers, all the things that, you know, you weren't good at school. I mean the, the story I tell you[inaudible] it's all in your head, you know, that, that, but now that you actually did it, question for you. Yeah. Is life more fulfilling now than it wasn't a tent? Oh, much so that, that's a double edged sword. Well because you had, I will say that, um, it's a fun, I said fulfilling. Fulfilling. Yes and no. Cool. Cause there were, there was some, some beautiful things of, of living in the tent and um, you know, being, you know, I've heard people say I'm not homeless, I'm home free. Uh, we were free. Um, we didn't have life was very simple. So it's a very, I mean it's literally a different world I live in right now. Um, cause it was, I would wake up with my children every morning and we'd go pick berries and swim in the Creek and I'd leave one day a week to go, you know, put us some pump in or put a well pump in. Um, so as far as like engagement with my family, I get that it will, I was so much more engaged with my family. Um, running a business is, it is a lot of work. I mean, so one of my struggles now is that I have a hard time being genuinely present with my family. I get so I get so excited about work now like, um, but my, my kids see it. Like even yesterday, my middle daughter Lily, she was like, I want everyone wants to come to work with me. Cause I always talking about work like, so my middle daughter came to work with me. Um, it didn't go to school and she thought it was the greatest thing in the world. And she hung out on the couch in my office and then went and hung out with dispatch. And, um, so, so pros and cons to both. Um, but I am as a provider for my family, as someone that is building something that I'm continuing on a family legacy, I feel very fulfilled. Um, the opportunities that I have for my family now are very different. And I really do think that part of being so detached from my family over the last few years is I, I got us into a lot of debt. I made a lot of tough decisions that I couldn't just step away from. I couldn't just at mad McQuillan you mean the business? Yeah, I'm McQuillan brothers. I mean I had like my dad and I just became partners like my dad. Right? So I couldn't, my dad gave me the opportunity to run with this business and do whatever I wanted and he never thumbed me. Or, um, so I made these decisions and I made these mistakes and I had gotten this debt so I had to see it through cause I couldn't burn my father. Um, so the pressure was just immense that I can't stop. Um, so now as things have started to settle and we have structure and we have accountability and, and we're moving forward, I am able to be more present with my family. Um, and I think that over the next year I'm going to see a lot more of that because we're not in turnaround. Um, we were legitimately, this time last year, we were turning around. It was, it was make moves or, yeah. Or it's over. Um, or it's back to the tent.
Speaker 1:Right. I get it. So that's a good answer. Cause I, you know, in some respects, you know, to me it doesn't sound appealing to live in a tent. Yeah. But I understand the peel that you described there. Yeah. Right. And my guess is, is that with a person like yourself who is, uh, you know, I sound like you're a family guy first, um, that you're never going to be, that you'll always have time for family to make time. And I know you do, but
Speaker 2:doubt I'm working in a turnaround situation versus running a successful business.
Speaker 1:Ours, so different. So, so let me ask a question now that you know what it feels like to be in a turnaround. Oh my goodness. You'll do everything you can. Everything in my power to not do that again. Make good decisions to help anyone that's going to go down those best and not have to go through. Cause it is, it's brutal. So let's talk about that list. Cause we're getting 36 minutes in this. Fascinating. But tell me what, so there's somebody that's young in the business. If you could go back, I'd like this question. Go back to uh, a 28 year old, 30 year old John McQuillan and say don't, Oh, what, what would you say?
Speaker 2:I would say, do not worry about revenue. Worry about, worry about good gross margins, worry about quality of earnings, focus on not ego. Ego like ego is all we have to be the biggest. We need more trucks. We got a bit bigger than everyone else. It is such a lie. It is such a lie because you can have an incredibly successful small business. You don't need to be 150 trucks. Um, very cool. I mean I have members in my P bod, my, my group that have smaller organizations that are doing incredible profits and then there are people on the other hand that have these massive organizations that aren't making anything that's like, okay, you did, you did$5 million in revenue this month to make$20,000 and as a business, not personally as a business. Like, um, and then half of that goes to taxes. Like, all right, how are you going to grow and invest in training or do anything with that kind of money? You mean while you've got guys that are doing$2 million a year and their businesses are profiting$420,000, like the amount of work that has to be done for either. So I would, I would just say more than anything focused on quality of earnings and don't look at, don't get caught in ego, have more trucks and more money and bigger, bigger, bigger because that's not what matters. Um, and I made that mistake in it. It almost cost me the family business. Wow. That's great advice. I don't know if I need to ask anything else cause that was good. That's, that's no questions asked. So now when the revenue comes in and the month ends, you're going to make sure that uh, it's quality of earnings. Like what are we looking for? And bottom number doesn't have wings around it. And even if you go backwards in revenue, um, like I told you right before this last year, during the month of January, we did like$920,000 in revenue. This year we did 740, like, so we made, we did less work. Now granted the weather's been massive this time. Last year it was freezing and it's like 40 degrees outside. Um, but we made more money like so. So again, it's the quality of earnings and that quality of earnings comes from having goals and sharing them with the team and having accountability and having benchmarks. And what do we have to do, you know, what is, what is the ticket to the show? Like not, not do you want butter or do you want cheese or do you want Skittles? Like what is the ticket to the show? The ticket to the show is you have to do this kind of revenue. You have to make sure that you're representing the McQuillan brothers family and business in a good way. We have to put our customers first. We say sell, not or serve, not sell. Um, so the more you go in to serve a homeowner, the higher your average ticket is when you go in to just sell, sell, sell, you burn customers. So, um, so it's clearly defined like what are, what is the ticket to show? And once you get your ticket to the show, then we can talk about, Hey, do you want you on Twizzlers? Are you on Skittles? Um, but what gets us in the door? So having that defined creates a better working environment. You get, you get higher caliber people that want to be a part of the organization because people want to do a good job. Good people do. Oh my gosh, people want to, they want to know what the goal is and they want to crush it. Um, and that is, that's what's changed. The organization is really bringing that type of, that type of structure in that type of drive into the business. And it starts with me like, um, it really does. Uh, they say it starts at the top. I used to be like, no, no, the masses. It's the masses. Um, it does start at the top. If I show up late every day and don't care, uh, what does that say to everyone else? If I don't follow through? And this is, this is my biggest weakness, Jack, legitimately, um, uh, follow through accountability. Uh, you know, not being forgetful. Like those are the things that I struggle with. I, yeah, I just, yesterday I, I let my customer service manager down, I told her I was gonna do something and I didn't write it down and I didn't do it. And she got a call from a frustrated customer. So this morning I had to eat a sandwich and say, Hey, you know, I'm sorry, like I made a mistake. I didn't follow through. Um, I took care of Sharon, I talked to her, but I apologize that you had to take that call. So I owned it, I ate it, I saw it through. Um, but getting that warm feeling in my body that I let someone down is the stuff that pushes me to, to do a better job and be a better person. Um, cause at the end of the day, we're just, we're just people helping people. Like all of us, whether you're a teammate, a customer, like I, I worked for everyone at McQuillan brothers and I just don't want to fail anyone. I want to do a good job because Andy, our operations manager, Joe, depends on us and Brooke, our customer service and Theresa and my brother and my dad and all the people in the field that, um, we work for them. Um, so how do we, how do we make sure that we do everything we can to bring that every day? Um,
Speaker 1:it's interesting if I can jump in here is you know, you are a people guy first, you know, side that's very evident. You know, you're, you enjoy people, you enjoy fun. And so what's important for you is the structure and the processes and consistency. And these are the things you struggle with, but you had to put people around you to do that. Now the converse is this, if you are great at process and structure and numbers and maybe a little harder, they'll tougher. You might have to have somebody like you around you. Right? Isn't that so funny? Cause. So, so this is not like, so if you're a numbers guy or woman and really a little more stern, you're saying, ha ha, I'm going to be more like, but John needed to do, don't, don't do that more of this. Like you are sometimes I think when you're in, when you're struggling and you don't know what to do, you do more of the very thing that's causing the struggle. Right. 100%. So you say this place is in trouble. I better be more fun. I better be more, I better go hug some more people. He was like, no, don't hug any more people. John. I don't know. They don't need a double hug man. It's
Speaker 2:so, it is, uh, so our operations manager, Andy is, he is all red. Like, I mean, he looks like a pack man about to eat the other colors. Like I'm so not emotional. It's that, that, that, that a to Z. I mean we joke when I come in his office and start talking, you can tell he'll just[inaudible] huh? Yeah. Ah. I'm like, okay, I get it. I'll leave. Like, um, but you need that. But so it takes all of us. And I had a lot of insecurities about who I was actually the first one, we went to leadership spotlight last year and we did the color code. Yeah. And I was yellow. I was, I started reading it and I just got super insecure cause I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like I pictured every business owner as a red dominant, like just a personality, just a driver. Um, and that was not me. I mean, I think the only person there that had more yellow in him was that magician that was doing like the presentation. And I saw that and I was like, Oh my gosh. But then you had everyone separate
Speaker 1:and there were so many yellow letters. I was like, Oh, it like changed my world because it was like, Oh my gosh, I don't want you hated yourself. Cool.
Speaker 2:Um, so my perception of what a business owner was, was structured like done on, uh, everything laid out, no questions asked. This is what you do. You know what Jack, Hey, you're not wearing the uniform. I need you to go home and come back when you have the uniform on. Check in with me. Thanks. Bye. Yeah. Like that. Um, let's just what I thought was the only way to be a successful business and it's not, you need a team of people. We need, we need all personalities to come together, um, with a common goal. And then you get to build something amazing and you get to do it with people whose strengths are your weaknesses. And, and we joke about it now and, uh, very cool. Yeah, it's um, it's a lot of fun and we're just getting started. That's the part that's so exciting cause we're just entering this new year. We're only one month in and I'm just, I'm thrilled to see what this year is gonna shake out. I'm happy for you. Yeah. Thank you. Your family. I'm happy for the good people that work in McQuillan well done man. Thank you. Yeah. Really appreciate it. Well done. So this is a, this has been a fascinating story. So if you see a guy, he's got a rather long beard,
Speaker 1:little duck dynasty, it's a little bit, all right. If you see him, he's got that laugh. You can't miss that laugh. Hey, what's up? He's great guy and you learn a lot.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know, you add a lot to the next door. And thank you for the story, man. Well, super grateful. Appreciate everything Jack and uh, anything I can do, I'm all in with you guys, so appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Thank you all for listening to this very special episode of leadership lounge is Jack tester with John McQuillan and we'll catch you next time. Thanks so much.