Leadership Lounge with Jack Tester
Nexstar President and CEO Jack Tester discusses various topics relating to business management and how to become a better leader in your business.
Leadership Lounge with Jack Tester
The Family Dynamic Of Business, With Bobby Hamilton
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Jack talks with Nexstar trainer Bobby Hamilton, who's a licensed third-generation plumber. Hamilton walks through his career and talks about what it's like to grow up with 12 siblings. He notes that coworkers are another form of a family, and they share similar dynamics.
I Have Jack Test. You're welcome to another episode here of Leadership Lounge. I'm in Saint Paul, Minnesota. Kind of an overcast day, but it's bright my office cause I have Bobby Hamilton sitting across the desk. [inaudible] are you doing bombing? I'm fantastic. How are you? Good. Bobby is a a fulltime Nexstar trainer and uh, you're actually sitting observing one of our install management classes that you'll be helping to assist the instruction of that on a go forward basis. So thank you for doing that. Absolutely. So we grabbed it. Yes, we grabbed you for, you're foregoing lunch right now to, to have a chat with us. Indeed. All right, so Bobby, let's talk real quick first. Uh, um, a lot of people know you were, a lot of people don't, um, your, you are a licensed plumber indeed. How did you get in the business? Uh, I was born that way. Tell me more. Third Generation Plumber I from, from, as long as I can remember that when I was, I can only remember being around plumbers. The shop was actually my parents house. It was just start garage. Okay. Show every morning they were plumbers over few years later when we, they moved into a proper building or shop. Yeah. My first paying job was to cut copper for scrap. Okay. And I made six and a half cents an hour because that's what my dad got paid when he was a kid. By the end of the week, I had negotiated all the way up to 25 cents an hour. Boy, you are a heck of a negotiating. I'm pretty shrewd. That's awesome. Yeah. So you've been, so you just, it was just kind of, but um, she just decided to just follow in your father's footsteps. Yeah, so not exactly. I mean, there's a lot of lobs yoyos along the way from the only thing I ever wanted to be was a plumber too. I'm absolutely never going to be a plumber. I'm going to go to college to become anything except a plumber. And then midway through college I realized I definitely, definitely want to be a plumber. So I, uh, she went away for awhile and kind of realized that was more in line then. Yeah. I was always apprenticing. I was always training. I was always, it was the best paying summer job I could get. So I stuck with it and mostly for the money. And then I realized part of the way through college that I was going to make way more money as a plumber, that I was with anything. I was going to college for it. Right. So I said, well, this is dumb. I'm going to go be a plumber. So it did. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. In a long line of plumbers, uh, sue when sue not only became a plumber, but then you weren't, went to work for your father. Yes. Yeah, definitely. And that was always kind of a big part of the draw was getting to work with my family. My Dad is like the coolest dude on the planet, so it's pretty cool. I really, really loved that opportunity. And Your Dad, Bob Hamilton, SR, you're above Helton Junior, is that right? Yes. All right. He
Speaker 2has got a sign in his office. I'd been there a number of years ago that said world's greatest plumber. Oh yeah. Right. He does. I mean he's not modest. No, that was a, that was a moniker from his sister that, uh, our sister Jay Hayes, my aunt Jenny I guess, decided that he was the world's greatest plumber and made him a little plaque and he said, well now it's official cause I have a plaque. That's awesome. So you went to work as a plumber for your father and, and, and Bob Hamilton plumbing and heating in Kansas City. Is that right? Yeah. And what you're just start there. I sort of full time. So it depends how you count it. I either have 36 years of experience or 16. So 16 after college. Let's just say 16 after college. Yeah. Once I went full time would have been 16 years ago. What it, so describe some of the roles that you, you did at Bob Hamilton plumbing and heating over the years. Just kind of give us a quick, if you will, almost like a resume of yeah. Your drops there. Yeah. So, um, I had always worked there. I did the apprentice thing for a while, or if my grandpa for a while there was a ditch man on a sewer crew for a little bit and worked my way up. Then I did a lot of drain cleaning. I just did evening and weekends. We didn't have evening and weekend work at that time, but we started advertising it. Yup. And so I just started taking people's on call shifts in borrowing trucks and then I took like the crummiest van in the fleet and turned it into my van and then all of a sudden we started doing a lot of weekend work and yeah, it was good. Then I moved into management where I kind of jumped straight into kind of an office manager, service manager role. It was a pretty small company at that time. Yeah. And then my sister came back from college. She also had gone away to work anywhere except the family business and came back and I immediately was like, wait a minute, you're way better at this managing stuff than I am. Okay. So I'm going to head out because I'd also been to a class recently where I learned how to sell sewers. Okay. And Seattle in 2008 from his old old guy named Jack. And uh, it was awesome and it changed my life because then I went back and I started the sewer department and I went and said, I'm going to do sewer sales. So did sewer sales for a few years and then I moved into managing the sales and install department of that. Okay. That's, Oh then I did just training. Okay. Training for the company, training for the company, training and recruiting was my last job then. Okay. So you worked in a very, I mean the very definition of a family business owned by your father. You had a sister there, you had, by the time you left Bob Hamilton, yet three brothers. There are two, three brothers, two brother in laws and a sister and dad. And that was it.
Speaker 1Wow. That's a lot. Yeah, of course. You're one of what, 11 or 13 or,
Speaker 2uh, you can learn all around it. I am the oldest of 12 kids, so I have 11 siblings.
Speaker 1That's amazing. Well, you have an awesome family, awesome parents. And uh, you left a really awesome business because Bob Hamilton was one of the most successful companies in next door. Huge business. Now they went from your dad's garage up to, uh, I don't know what they're doing and we don't want to get into the numbers, but hundreds of employees and just the biggest, baddest company in Kansas City. So you guys are awesome. Yeah. Well, there's some other pretty great next article we should say. One of the biggest, baddest. Okay. But, uh, it is, uh, it was pretty fun. It was a really cool place to work. Yeah. Awesome. But you left Joe. I did. Tell us about why you left and then the, the, the purpose of this podcast in a broad scope is I want to talk about what it's like working in a family business now that you've got some distance from that. So that's where we're heading with this, right. And we're going to loop back to that in a second here, but, but go ahead and talk about, um, how you decided to exit Bob Hamilton
Speaker 2as briefly as I can possibly put it. It was, I had been, I picked up and I was serving as a member trainer for a while. I was training just the sewer sales class. Yup. And at first it was only doing a couple of classes a year. It was great. It was a nice light workload. Then I started to pick up and I started to a lot more events and I've found that I wasn't really doing the as well as I could it either one of the jobs. So it wasn't that I was doing a bad job at either one of them, but I knew that I was going to be a lot more effective if I focused on one. So I told my dad that I was going to quit training or at least step way back and he said, well, you're an idiot if you do that. If you're going to quit a job, you should quit this one because that's what you're really good at and that's what you love to do. And I
Speaker 1training more than operating a
Speaker 2sure. I do love training and I love training and recruiting. When I was with Dad, I love working with dad, but this was always kind of something that was always on my horizon is there's always in my sites, being a next, our trainer was something I really wanted to do. Right. But I was just shocked that he was amazing enough to say, yeah, go do that. I thought for sure he'd be like, oh sweet, you're staying with me rather than like letting me go. Right. It was kind of awesome. Awesome.
Speaker 1That is awesome. Pretty neat. So we got the green light to to uh, to talk to you about working here and that all worked out. And you've been here for how long now? As a member? Not Quite two years. A little bit over a year and a half maybe. Something like that. Right. So what I want to do now is that you've been at next to our, had been kind of removed. You had an awesome relationship with your family and every family's got its dynamics. I don't know yours, we don't want to go there, but everybody has them. Right? Even an awesome family like you, um, years, I shouldn't say, but you are the son of a very successful small business owner, the oldest son of a very successful small business owner. The first personal work in that business. And it's interesting for, for meat, for, for us, I think for myself, at least for you to reflect back on your time, you were there to the things that, that jammed up to the things that went through your head, the things that maybe it was beliefs you had, maybe it was some conflict. Um, I'd like you to speak to that. So, um, I don't know how to ask that question different, but as you, as you step away from it now, yeah. With enough space and, uh, if he had to go back, what would you do or think differently? What, how would you start that?
Speaker 2The number one thing I would do differently is definitely appreciate the fact that everything was as awesome as it really was. Okay. There's a lot of times that I would get pretty stressed out and just, and I think she's a lot with a lot of owners and managers. Yeah. That like what we're doing is so critically important and that it affects so many other people and that it's a really cool opportunity to do it, but it definitely can wear on you a lot. And I don't think that I appreciated the people that I was around on a regular basis enough. Okay. Um, and that's something that I try and do now and now I do that in my current job and just with my whole family in general, I didn't know, I just, I felt like I had kind of failed my way to where I was. Oh. Like tell me more. Yeah. Like I quit college. I kind of took the easy way. I started thinking like, Oh, I took the easy way out. Maybe I, I passed him opportunities. Was this really what I should have done? Okay. Like, what else could I have been like, I could've gone to law school or something like that. That would have been a totally different path and things. I have no interest to go into law school. That's not real. That's not me. But I still had these weird self dowdy things. It's like, wait, did I really accomplish this or am I just Bob's kid? Oh, because it, there was a job for you. Yeah. It was just this is here and so I just, I did the safe thing. The path of least resistance and without a doubt. Yeah. And I just,
Speaker 1how did that mess with your head?
Speaker 2I just looked at all of my friends were the successful. They've seemed happy and whether or not it was true or not. I just messed up to Bob, by the way. Precisely. I see that now. But like a few years ago when I was, when I was in it, I was like, I was emotionally struggling with a lot of like my own value to the company and am I even good at my job? Okay. Am I just an imposter?
Speaker 1Oh Man, I get, I get that. That's awesome. Does she share that? So what did, so as you, so you have this distance away, um, was any of that true or is on your head? Oh, all imaginary. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2Looking back I was pretty good at what I did and I really, really love it.
Speaker 1So just to give some perspective here, when you started focusing on sewers at Bob Hamilton, how much annual revenue of sewer replacements where you're doing? Back in 2008 we did $165,000. And when you left, how much were you doing? We were almost two. 7 million. Yeah. I don't know how many people listening to this, they're doing more sewer repairs than that on an annualized basis. If there are many that I can count them on one hand. So that's quite an accomplishment. But that didn't, that wasn't enough, Huh? Yeah. No, I, cause I know other people help. It wasn't just Bobby. I know that, I mean you're very inclusive man. No technicians and good backhoe operators and salespeople and all that stuff and no shirt.
Speaker 2Yeah. We just had to eliminate bottlenecks. I had to stop being the bottleneck once I stopped being the bottleneck. And that was actually from my brother in law who I didn't want to hire because my dad told me that they just hired my brother in law. And then I found out that that meant to be my boss. So I was kind of freaking out. And what he did was he showed me that I was holding the whole company back by not letting go of it, so that I soon as I started to let go and to trust other people and to do things and the stuff that I learned from people with no experience, that I had judged as, oh, you're from outside this industry, what can you possibly know? That turned out to completely changed my life. Yeah. And then I started to just shut up and listen.
Speaker 1So it's interesting. So this, this whole imposture syndrome, you'd feel your way into where you were. That kind of Kinda hit ear, I guess it hit your self esteem, didn't it? Oh, for sure. I mean that's, is that what we're going to, your identity was that of a, he did have a, of a son of an owner who is successful and I'm just kind of along for the ride. I mean, I'm sure
Speaker 2that was it. And then my younger sister is the one that's thriving in the business and she's clearly the GM. She obviously understands business itself better than I did. She's, she's a wizard on excel and I can barely turn on my computer and I am like just judging myself against her and all of my other siblings that are doing so well in the company. And I'm like, man, I'm not, what am I bringing to the table here? I'm just going to keep up and show up and survive every day and hope that no one notices. And that was like the only reason am I still employed because Bob's my dad. Like, what do you fired me if I was just some guy off the street?
Speaker 1Yeah. Wow. So bothered me up a lot. A Lot, I guess. Yes. I guess that is really transparent and that's, uh, and I, and I have no doubt that, uh, that other people in a similar situation to have some of those same things. So what would, what advice, if you, if you were still in the business right now, right. And you still felt that way and now that you've removed yourself from it, what advice would you give yourself now? Ooh, that's tricky. Um,
Speaker 2gratitude. Okay. That's it. I keep coming back to that and it actually
Speaker 1would that, would that have then made you feel better about, about some of the, the self esteem things?
Speaker 2I think shell. Okay. Because I think that I would have appreciated a lot more of what was going on around me and I think appreciating my shelf a lot more. Yeah. And this is actually funny because it's happened at a, uh, I've never told you this story. Okay. Yeah. So you, you were part of it though. Oh. Um, I was training in sewer sales class up here not very long ago. And one of the people, we always do a training, we always write on the post it note, people write the questions that we're going to get to later. And someone wrote, what do you do if you're just burned out? And that like, it hit me hard because I was like, Whoa, shoot, I am burned out. This is, was this before you worked here? This was before I was full time here. Okay. Yeah, no, it makes me feel better right now. I'm responsible for that. The member trainer could care less. Go ahead. So, but uh, you actually, we were talking to it. They happened like right after we had just done the five, five 20 right after we'd just done the morning routine and we had just talked about gratitude and cause I showed you the question and I was like, what do you think about this? And you go, well I think you kind of answered it was what we just talked about, that gratitude. And that was, I think that's the only path to fighting burnout into being excited every day about what it is that you're doing and realizing that yes, there's, I'm not very good at a lot of things, but I can trick my sister into building some awesome excel spreadsheets for me. And then all I gotta do is type the numbers in and hey, look, I'm a manager now.
Speaker 1That's a talent because your sister is tough. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's awesome. So it was, you'd go back and just be grateful for where you were. Yeah. And the, the skills that you have exactly. And the people you're with. Yeah.
Speaker 2Knowing that everybody around me, we're all in this together. Yeah. I get so stressed out with all of my technicians and my installers and customer complaints because when you're in the office, you of course, never, ever get to hear from the happy people. Right. So that suit not any more enjoyable. Right. Um, I think that was the hardest move for me. Now that I'm thinking about it. What's that was moving from sales into the office. That's when you struggled the most. That was one I struggled the most. Is that because the office was a whole new trade, it was a whole new craft. Okay. Sales talking to people, hanging out with people, everybody's happy, everybody. Ya. It's fun to win in the field as a salesman. Manager meaning yeah, like you're winning, you're putting up numbers. You can see it. It's you measure as a tangible thing that you do at the end of every days. Yeah, I did. I put that in well and love this story of like the that whether it's chopping wood or bank. Yeah, that's what I want to say. They had a guy's paying 25 bucks an hour, chop wood all day long and so guys show up day after day after day and they keep coming back for 25 bucks an hour. This is a sweet gig. You're chopping board, you're making stacks, you see what's going on. You move into management though and it's like when they pulled the waterway and say, hey, just hit this bag over and over again. $25 an hour. Second day, no one shows up because you don't get to see your stack of wood. Awesome. So it's like you've got everything you're doing, you're not measuring your accomplishments as nearly as concretely and as quickly. It's measured over months and years in percentages. It's not in two days I sold this. Right, right. So, so that was tough. That was tough. That was probably the hardest part. Oh, I can get that. Did you ever get through it or is it, did you leave kind of still feeling that way? No, I actually did enjoy, another thing that I started to do is I realized that one of the things I'd learned was about eliminating my bottlenecks and not being my own bottleneck. So every time I moved to positions in the shop, the first thing that I would do is identify my replacement. Okay. And then I knew that I was grooming or reports on your dad was syring all these people, right? 12 of them in cue. So Heck, a recruiting program Bob had, but I'm sorry, go ahead. No, you're good. Uh, yeah, I would just find out who's going to take this job over from me, who was going to be good at this and then I would to go have to learn a new job. And then that became fun for me was deliberately making the company grow by identifying what the next position is going to need to be filling it and then ultimately filming it right with not me. Okay. So we've got a couple things.
Speaker 1Thanks. Here know that you've talked about, um, you know, you talked about some of the things you felt about failing into where you were and this whole idea of, of not feeling that you're doing anything tangible, you know, in the business when you went into management not seeing the result of your work. Right. And that was a struggle. Um, and I guess you'd probably matured to a point where you could probably handle that better today if you're were to go back and talk to that young Bobby that was the manager then it was feeling this sense of, oh, wouldn't that be cool when, that'd be awesome. You could do that. Well, there's a young Bobby listening to this that, that feels some of that right now. You know, so let's maybe those hang out there just a little bit more. Cause I, I'm not sure we, we ran that all the way down. So this idea that, that, that, how did you get, cause you know, management isn't about what you do. It's about how you equip others to do amazing things and then somehow having to leap into, not in a selfish way, but, but recognize your value every day and what others are getting done because of help you're giving or advice you've provided or getting out of the way or however we want to view that. Right. Cause it's not like, uh, your personal personal performer anymore.
Speaker 3Right? Yeah.
Speaker 2So
Speaker 1you clarify that a little bit. Well, no, I just saying that, that, that you got, you got there where you are seeing, you are feeling, uh, job satisfaction to the success of others, not just in what you are accomplishing that right. You were promoting him. I said, you're, you're helping to promote them, but even, even without promoting them and you're helping them become successful.
Speaker 2Yes. Right. That was the coolest. That was the, that was another tough thing when it came to leaving here, a worst state to come here, even dad's company, uh, to move to next door was I was really worried. I had had this whole team that I'd built, like we were up, we had well over a hundred technicians and we were in a spot where I was like, I can't leave these guys. Like I recruited him, I trained him, I brought him in, like, these are my family and I'm walking away. And that was weird. That was a little bit hard. But
Speaker 3they,
Speaker 2uh, realized that I would be able to hopefully be that much more influential by having a little bit broader reach through next door. And they're not, they're not abandoned. It wouldn't, they're not depending on me. I was able to equip them to set them up. Yeah. And to succeed and then wanting to run.
Speaker 1That's awesome. Well what else, Bob, as you think back on, on that transition you had or that, or not, I should say the experience you had, I should say in a family business. You touched on something else said and I'll, I'll address it even though they'll sibling rivalry birth.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, you got it.
Speaker 1That whole, that whole thing, cause you know your sister is extraordinarily talented, right? And needed a very talented brothers too. I've met, I haven't met all 14 or 27 of them, but I've met a bunch of them. Right. And they're all quality people. But how did that work? How did the whole brothers, you are always the oldest. Now your sister's got a hunter and you got John and you got all these other folks in there.
Speaker 2I realized pretty early on that they were just getting better as they went. Okay. So I was probably ever going to be the top. Um, is that tougher? The oldest child, the, that uh, no joking. But I'm, I'm obviously the oldest, his smartest and the best looking. So I have those things to lean on clearly the most delusional to. Yeah. Um, that's my all time favorite line. If only I had a little humility, that'd be perfect. So, um, yeah, it was weird because I didn't like, I was pretty jealous of like Amy doing it, but I all show was very clear very early on. They actually learned it from a financial planner when I first started, like 401k planning. Yeah. And he said, he said, Hey, your dad's going to have this business and he's got a lot of kids younger than you. And just because you work in this business does not mean that you deserve ownership of this business. It's your parents' business. Nice to hear that from an outsider, that entitlement thought I kind kinda did. Like I should like, Hey, I'm the one that work here. Like look at me like I'm so I'm going to work for that family busies. Yeah. And they're all going to go off and do whatever they want and go live. All these dreams that I like didn't do, even though I didn't have them because being a plumber was really what I actually wanted to do, but still it was in my head. Yeah. Just regretting. And I knew like my brother who's 15 years old now deserves no more or no less of the company than I did just because I chose to work there. I got paid well. I get well I got it. And so I didn't really have that much entitlement. And actually once I moved into the office and I saw how amazing my sister really, really was,
Speaker 1I didn't have uh, a whole lot of it because I did know she was pretty awesome. So you had eyes wide open there. She's talented person and that doesn't mean you're less than, it just means he's got certain skills. Right. That took me a while, but I did know she was good. That took you a while though. It did take a while. Did have, so let's just say this real clear. By the time you left, you didn't have any entitlement, but when you got there you probably did. I did. And then there was some, some issues you had to work through right. When she first moved into the office and I realized she was better for the job, I ducked out cause I knew if I didn't do it, job is going to be in trouble. I was pretty like bummed out that she was that much better than me. Oh really? Ah, it's all we got over it. That's awesome though that you say that, you know, that's cool. It was just a better fit for her. But now I could run circles around her.
Speaker 2You know, I know your sister. I know you. I don't want to say no, no, totally different. But uh, we're, we're good. Uh, good
Speaker 1team. I know you are. I know you are. Well this is awesome. This is awesome self-reflection night. I appreciate that. I was sitting there thinking about you and your journey to get here at Nexstar and, and uh, that's awesome. So tell us what it's like just real quick and we'll probably end with this on, what's it like to be an extra trainer and they're just starting to look talking to the CEO and next doors, but I want you to be transparent. Oh yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2Um, eats awesome. H A I really, really love it. It's just what I've always wanted to do. But there's definitely like things that I weren't prepared for moving into this was like, it's kind of a it before. Like I'm going to work with the same people every day. I'm seeing the same people every day. Yeah. I've got these relationships. Even if I don't talk to him for two weeks. Right. There's still, I'm still around. Right. People and familiarity. Yeah. Yeah. And even when it's stressful, it's, it's known and it's consistent, but then you're out on the road all the time and it's pretty lonely. Cause even when you meet people there, New People, and you've got all of a sudden 30 to 70 new best friends in the room and there, every single one of them is awesome. And I love training the class, but it's still not as familiar. Yup. So that would be my only thing on the downside. But other than that, just the opportunity to work in this industry
Speaker 1is what matters to me more than anything else really. This industry's huge for me. Yeah. That's awesome. I, yeah, there's a whole bunch of long stories there, but we've got to probably keep this within some kind of confines. I think that'd be, I can I, as you reflect on whether you want to say anything else, I'm just telling you that, that, that you know, when you have a, a good work environment like you had at Bob Hamilton. Yeah. And you enjoy the end. And I think, you know, even in a weird company, you know, if you can carve out your little piece of it that's functional and fun, that's, you know, you might not like everybody there. And I worked for a huge company before I came back to next door and there's a whole bunch of it. I didn't like it. Right. But I, I found that the people that I directly work with every day and a lot of them and now here at nextdoor, which is cool. Yeah. I enjoyed in the eye. And then when I left that company, it was like a big part of me died. Like, I remember I used to have a routine where I'd call these gms in the morning and that was like a highlight of my day. It wasn't just a beat him up on numbers, but I've wanted to see how they're doing and all that. And I told me how much she really enjoyed beating my, I did I have met you. Yeah, it was pretty awesome. But, but there was other parts of the two and uh, you know, and I remember when I left, like when nine o'clock in the morning would come by, it's like there's this big hole in my life waiting, not having that anymore. And I was working from home then just like you are right. And uh, that was bizarre. And did you really come to appreciate if you have good people that work in, you're a good person that are, that are engaging those people, that's a big part of your life. And when that's gone, it's, it's tough. So I totally get working from home, being on the road, see a new people and that's awesome. That's invigorating. It has its benefit, but you're not seeing, hey bill, how are you doing last night? You know, that, that kind of routine that you built there. Right. Even if you hate him, it's still comfortable.
Speaker 2Well, I'm not going to agree. I'm not agree with, you know, the don't know if it's miserable. You know, maybe you're right.
Speaker 1Problem. Maybe you're not, but in your case, I know you were additive to whatever you're doing there. So, um, so I, I told you my view of that same thing. You are going to offer another story or is that
Speaker 2Oh yeah. Maybe for, maybe for another time.
Speaker 1Okay. Well we'll leave it at that then. Yeah. Okay. Well, Bob, you've been awesome. Um, what you're doing for this industry is great. Thank you very much for that. Thank you for, uh, helping our membership out and thank you for sharing your story. And I hope I do. I think of all the tough dynamics in this industry, that whole family dynamic at work is one that seems intractable from time to time. It seems like one of those things that, that I having not done it and not, I, I don't know what to say other than I've got a mom and dad. I did and I have three brothers and I can imagine what it would be like to throw us into a business and have us try to figure that out. And uh, I know it's a huge struggle side. I'm hoping that that um, people will listen to this. We'll, we'll take this to heart and listen to it. If they're have a situation in life that similar to what you had, whether it's a parent or a son or daughter. Yeah,
Speaker 2definitely. I mean, I don't know what the, what, what you can possibly learn from me and my stories, but if you got something out of it then that's awesome. But well, I heard a few things I heard gratitude. Right. That's good. You go back and really appreciate what you have. Yeah. Right, right. So, and, uh, we're also hurt us humility that you realize that that for certain roles is as other family members that were better than you were and you had the self reflection to, to live into that and not fight it, not let your ego get in away and you made that work. Is that right? Yeah. And then when they are trying to fight then we would get in fights and I would get pretty self important. And there was some times I was writing it was worth fighting for and uh, there was a lot more times that I wasn't once I, I was a little more open. It was great. But we've always been the kind of family that we fight intense. We don't do anything without passion. Any one of us. We have massively different personalities all up and down the 12 of us. But we fight hard and then two minutes later it's so are we're going to lunch. That's awesome. Just, well you're fortunate.
Speaker 1Thank you for sharing all of this. Yeah. All right. And thank you all for listening to another very interesting episode here of Leadership Lounge. This is Jack Test. You're sitting here with Mr. Bobby Hamilton and we'll catch you next time. Thanks so much.