The American Story, With Julian Scadden

Nexstar's head of operations Julian Scadden talks about his experience as an underprivileged young man who worked his way through plumbing jobs by learning as he went. Ethnicity, Julian explains, should never be a barrier to finding a good job that turns into a career. He tells the story of how he found his path.

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Speaker 1 0:09

Hi this Jack Tester and welcome to another episode Leadership Lounge. I'm in Saint Paul, Minnesota. It's a bright sunny January day and I'm sitting across my desk from one of my favorite people in the world. Julian scat. And how are you doing

Speaker 2 0:21

Julie? I am great. And you're one of my favorite people so far too.

Speaker 1 0:24

Very cool. Very cool. For those who don't know, I Julian's head of operations here at Nexstar and just doing a great job. And I wanted to Julian to come on here and kind of tell his journey into and through the industry. So that's what we're going to talk about today. And we might have Julian back as another guest to talk about other topics cause he, he's in a lot of interesting things and it's got some unique perspective and I, I'm, I'm interested in it and I, I think people listening to this will be interested in it too. But so Julian, you'd had no family in this business? No. No. Why don't you tell us when we start a little further back than this industry and tell us where you grew up and a little bit about your, uh, being a young adult.

Speaker 2 1:04

Yeah. It was a young adult where I grew up, grew up in the mile high city, so that's just outside of Denver, Colorado and a little place called commerce city. And of course they call it commerce city cause it's all warehouses and dirt roads. Okay. These little ranch shanti type of homes. And that's just how we grew up. And, uh, you know, grandma and grandpa lived in that neighborhood and we lived in that neighborhood and, and that's it. It's just, uh, said, uh, down the, down the road from all the warehouses.

Speaker 1 1:30

And, uh, I'm, I'm gathering from how you're describing this that, that you probably weren't even hardly middleclass Oh, no, no. This is not a middle class environment. No at all. Okay. No, I think if there's a dirty or color on blue collar, that's who we were. Okay. Dirty blue collar city. Right? Yeah. Okay. So, um, what was it, you know, tell me about, you know, kind of growing up in conversating. Um,

Speaker 2 1:56

you know, the thing that was interesting is that everyone was equal in the way that nobody had anything. Uh, but what I do recall, so the fond memories, you don't realize that you don't have anything until you go out and see something else. Right. So the fond memories where that uh, everyone had a garden and that's one thing I recall is a young man that everyone in their backyard, they had rhubarb, they had lettuce, they had tomatoes, and you could just kind of run down the block as a kid and it was all right to reach right into somebody's garden. If you're a hungry and you grab it, you know, tomato right there, a cucumber or some rhubarb and just chew on it, we'd run all up and down those dirt roads and just hang out and have fun, good memories. Yeah. What are some of the bad memories? Oh, some of the bad memories or you know, it can really have a bike getting stolen for the first new bike I got lasted about a week and I knew better. I actually, uh, went to visit one of my buddies, left it on his porch, walked inside to just holler his name because I knew not to leave it unattended. I literally stood in the, and again, you know, I've heard the term shotgun homes. Yeah. I mean that's essentially, you see right through it. This is, I stood in the doorway, hollered, didn't hear response or at hollered one more time and walked, I don't know, five, 10 feet into the house. And by the time I got back out, the bike was gone and there was nobody else even on the street when I walked in. So I don't know how this thing happened. Or you had to be crestfallen. Yeah. Oh, the first new bike, you know, and I was more upset about having to tell my mother then I actually was about losing the bike. Yeah. Yeah, because I perceived her, it was really short. Right? Yeah. You got a pike and your Julian lost. Just lost it, lose it. Careless. You know, just in contrast, you know, I grew up riding bikes. Schwinns. Uh Huh. Of course I had it. I'm going to just do the contract. No one ever stole my bike. Oh, I left it laying everywhere. No, this is fun. I'm just going to say, so you had a different upbringing than I did. Yeah. That right. In fact that we had in my neighborhood, some kids even had their own golf cart. Oh yeah. That's this. Bringing some contrast here. Yeah. So there you go. Listeners. There's a, I did not grow up in the mean streets of commerce city. No, for sure. But anyway, I want to, I want to know more about, about that. So you're a young man, you're, you're becoming an adult, you're in high school. What was your plan? There was no plan. And I think that context is fair because it does, you know, this is going to frame some of the early ideology thinking the way that I would behave as a young man. It was very much about, uh, fortunately, you know, I didn't get into theft, I didn't get into those types of things, but it does create that mentality of I've got to get mine, I've got to look out for number one. You know, it wasn't about looking about helping others. So that was just that poverty mindset. Right? It is. You didn't have, so you've got to get it is, it is. It is. So, as a young man, you know, I'll jump ahead to about, you know, middle school and give some context here and it's not to paint a picture here. Here's one thing I do want to say early on for anyone listening here. Uh, I was approached once, I was talking with some young folks and someone in their best nature approached me and they said, uh, you know, what are your roots? Uh, you know, I understand that your background is native American. You have some Hispanic roots and it's, and it's nice for these other kids to have a, you know, this story of either someone from poverty or someone from that culture. And I said, you know, that's not fair. You can't put that on me to say that I'm the flag bearer for all native Americans or for everyone who's Hispanic. So this is an American story. And the more that I've hung out with our members, it's interesting to me that I'll meet other business owners who are from Alabama, Louisiana and New York, Canada, and they'll say, you know what, I had a very similar experience to you. Okay. You know the, that I had my own struggles. I've had something similar and that's why I say that to me. And I used the term American. This is an American story. This is a story of a situation, uh, this, these are just things that you have to overcome. And what I want to talk a little bit about with you too, Jackie, is the transformations that I had to make. I want to hear, yeah, there's a ton of angels and grace and blessings that entered my life. And there's also a lot that I know that I had to put the sweat equity into to make it happen. Well, you know, Jay z,

Speaker 1 5:58

I think that the parts is interesting here is, is, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll make the contrast between me and knew I was, I grew up in a stable home. You know, we had, my dad was successful, we had money as a member of a country club. You know, like college was my trajectory. I was very, I always felt safe. Never had to, never wanted, I never thought about that, you know. Um, and here I am. Right. We're very fortunate, very successful. I think relatively speaking, know, thought flaws. But, but, but you have, you know, the, and I think a lot of what, what's interesting at my point in my life was I look back, you know, you kind of creep to try to find people from way back. I grew up in Alabama years ago. Yeah. And so you'll kind of Facebook stalks and people that you remember that you haven't seen in 35 right. Fit 50 40 years. Right. And their doctors right there, you know, attorneys, their insurance salesman, you know, I think the people that were in my neighborhood, by and large, some of them are dead too. But, um, but I, I, I, I wonder if you went back to commerce city, if you'd see the same level of success. Right. The point I'm getting to Jay is that, that, that despite the advantage that not, you did not have a lot of advantages I had yet. Here you are and I want to know why you, right. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Why you and has contrast. As I looked up, one of my old friends the other day, I had the privilege of writing him a letter and a federal federal penitentiary because that's where he's at now. Okay. So I guess that that's kind of cements what I just said. Exactly. Right. Yeah,

Speaker 2 7:31

exactly. And this is a guy I grew up with, you know, many of the same things. And to the, uh, you know, to the alternate spectrum, some of the things that I did glean where I have two cousins as well, same age. And, uh, you know, one of them got a full ride scholarship to an ivy league school.

Speaker 1 7:44

I met him, right. Yeah. To Pennsylvania and the other one pushed himself through and they're both engineers. It's very cool. And so fortunately I had those type of people around me too. And, and uh, you know, none of us had our fathers around. Okay. And so that's what I want to get back to now as a young man. What, what happened? So, you know, dad was around when I was a younger man, mother and father separated,

Speaker 2 8:06

don't really see a ton of him. So by middle school, uh, mom, my mother always had Ms. And I remember as a young man, there were times when the MS would kick in and multiple sclerosis would kick in and we'd have to spoon feed my mother. And that was just part of life. And, uh, so around middle school she got cancer and she fought that off as well. And at this point I really felt so independent in the way of, you know, this is a woman who put herself through college, would work multiple jobs to take care of my sister and I. And, and yet I still felt very independent. So there was this always this feeling of, uh, I'd never wanted to squander any resource. She gave me, her being a college graduate, she always made sure, and I do want to point this out for our listeners is part of the reason that I sincerely believe my success is that my mother always taught me that there's, there's a for everything. And the reason that I always remember that as it used to aggravate me, can I have that? Can I have this? Is it that, what's this? What does it called? How do you say it? How do you pronounce it? And I shared a story with Jack once that around this middle school age. Uh, my sister is a little bit older than me. She advised some, some local guys in the house and their local gang members and they're hanging out in the house and I pulled her to the side and I say, Hey sis, you know, we can't, we can't have this. You know what if mom finds out? No, no, it's okay. It's okay. You know, they're just eating potato chips. You know, it wasn't anything crazy going on in the house, but it made me nervous. And so one of the gangsters, hey little man, hey little man, come to come here. I said, hey, well, you know, yes. And He, and he says, well, you know, I'm, I'm direct and I put my hand out and I just say, nice to meet you. Look him right in the eye, nice to meet you. And it's not like I didn't grow up in the neighborhood with these guys, but that's just how my mother had trained us to interact. And I perceived him as a man because he was older. So anytime I met a man and look him in the eye and shake his hand, I say, nice to meet you. If this whole room of gangsters didn't fall out on the floor laughing at me. Oh really? Yeah. That's the funniest thing they ever, you know. So now they're joking, poking each other. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. And Odie rock turns. And he silences the room and he says this one right here and he's pointing at me. He says, this one right here, nobody else with this one right here. He's all right. And so for many years I had this kind of a pass where the guys knew I was different. Yeah. Right. Just the way I carried myself, the way I was raised, but they also knew I wasn't a pushover either. You know, my sheriff scuffles and um, so right around those formative years, I'm having this influence of the streets. I'm having this upbringing from my mother and then life happens. Okay. With life. So life happens and a right around 16, uh, my mother, between dealing with our illnesses, unable to keep a job, uh, essentially had to move back in with her mother. And there wasn't a place for me there. Okay. And uh, headed to find out what I was going to do. It's what you do. I lived out of my car. Sounds glamorous. I'd always been a worker at all. Let me tell you how glamorous this was. So this had to be 92, 93 ish, I think anyone starting next door, early nineties. Yeah, that's what I want to say. That the next door is just getting started. Yeah. And so am I in a sense, because I always worked and I always had a job. So that's the other thing though is, you know, well other buddies were out there stealing and running the streets and do whatever they're doing. I always had a job. It would, why did you do that instead of the stones and know, you know, outside of the fact that I just your mom, we didn't want to disappoint your mom. No, no, I don't believe that was it. I believe I didn't want the consequences. I would watch wisdom for young men. I would watch my friends go in and out of juvenile hall and I would hear the way that they would talk about it. And many times, even guys that I knew weren't tough guys. Once they went and did that first stint at a juvenile hall, they came back. They had more respect and I knew they were soft, but they had more respect by doing that time because they had it. They did it. They did. They went and did it. They did something and they did the time around other guys. Oh, wow. And I just did not want that experience. I just did not want the consequence. Yeah. I was definitely afraid of, and a lot of those people in their world, my other cousins are my friends and I just didn't want that though. I was so of what goes on. What do you lose your freedom. Wow, that's pretty good. Did you have that wisdom? So it was about the consequence, to be honest with you, it was never about end. The other thing that I, I believe has served me well is that I believe as far as aggressive as I am and for all the things I believe in, I do believe I have a good heart now in the moment. Kind of make an emotional decision or comment. Sure. You do have a good heart. Yeah. Yeah. But on the inside it was just back then too. I don't want to do that. You know, I didn't want to hurt anybody. Take from these guys. I don't want to take from somebody. I was like, we're all poor. Why are we still in front of each other two from Jack? I didn't get that. Yeah, I didn't get that. We were the kids who would at Halloween would go to the Nice neighborhood because we knew that they give the big candy bars and I remember stumbling upon a house that left a giant bowl out of the large candy bars and it said take one and leave something. And I remember my buddies just dumping that thing out. And even in that moment I go, why would you do that? Why would you do that? So I just didn't ever get that mentality. Wow. So I'm 16 so 16 you're living in your car. Living in my car always had a job. The reason I mentioned that is because I had this beautiful $500 car in 1968 dodge Monaco. So feel free to Google that and look up the four door version because as many of you who have driven old cars know that, that that back seat is a sofa. I mean we could fit 20 of us in there if we wanted to. And that the trunk was designed to be a bedroom though, but go ahead. But he was here and yet it was quite accommodating. Yeah. And uh, yeah, so just threw everything I had in the trunk. You know, I had some records and cassettes and some clothes and put myself through about another two years of high school. It really wasn't focused. And so when you asked me earlier, you said, what was the plan? There was no plan. The plan was, I think part of that was, uh, you weren't made to, mom wasn't telling you to get snow. No, there's nobody may, I just felt like it was societal, that if I'm not in school, I'm kind of a, you know, burnout, dropout, who am I? Like, oh boy. And so I'm not fully fledged, you know, out in the street fighting still in drug deal and doing all that stuff, but I'm not fully in school. Yeah. So it's like what are you doing? But if I'm not in school, it felt like I have to fill those hours and then I'm going to be around my cousins who are doing more aggressive things and I don't want to be there either. And they were, you know, with their teachers. I loved, I was in sports, I was a wrestler, I did well in wrestling for many years and I did enjoy, I enjoyed learning. I've always been a learner. Did enjoy the structure. I would rebel against that. But I've always loved learning. So yeah. Okay. So I got a few things going here. There was a sense of responsibility. You had good heart, you know that however that came, do you, you, you ended up with one. Yeah. Right. You didn't want to be what you saw around them around the streets, see, see what she had graduated high school. No, no, no. What happened? Uh, so similarly, just kind of trucking along, you know, teachers telling me you're a felon, you're not going to cut it. What are you doing? And they said, you know, you can take your GED. I remember one teacher just pulled me to the side and he said, look, you're a bright kid. I don't know what's going on in your life. You know, I know your cousins and I know you're not doing what they're doing. He says, but you're not even trying, like a lot of the like, you're not taking the test, you're not coming to some cloud. You'll skip a day or two. And I was just doing whatever I wanted to really, uh, because at that time I was working as well. So sometimes I'd sleep in other towns. I just wanted to hang out. And he said, you know, you can take a GED. I said, well, tell me about that thing. Oh, it's down here. It's a two day process and something I am proud of. That speaks back to the education that my mother embedded in US early. I finished the entire GED test in one sitting. It's supposed to take two days in one sitting and you know, top of the class. Okay. It was easy to do it like 18 at this time. Around that time it was probably s maybe 17 so she's just, do you just test it out of high school? Yeah, I just said, okay, if I'm not going to graduate, I'm not going to get the grades. I still had to have the thing. All right. So I just did that so I could go to work more. I said, well no, then I don't even have to go to this building. Okay, so you've got a GED. Yeah. I never knew this. Yeah, I thought you lose graduated high school. So naturally of course you realize that there was no other option life other than college. Like we tell every kid in America college next. Oh, of course. You know that GED, we'll get you into the fight. And sarcasm by the way, find is accredited as universities. We'll get you into some community colleges. All right. Oh, I'll you know that. So that's what you did, I'm sure. And that's the other thing though, that these, when you're taking the GED, everything they're handing you is to go to this community college to take more of these remedial classes that I couldn't stand anyway. Okay. All right. And what do I apply this stuff, right? Yeah. So instantly, of course what I did is there was an old man who lived down the street. He was literally old, had to be eighties. Okay. That's the old, and I knew that he owned this plumbing shop, a snake and Ruder and Colorado. And I just down the street in commerce city, the by now I've moved to Aurora, now I've moved to Aurora, which is another suburb. And uh, just went to him, just said, Harold, I'm ready for a full time job now. Okay. And he said, okay, just come any kind of new, yeah, yeah. But I know he knew me from, you know, up and down the street. And so these, similarly to commerce city in Aurora, again, I'm in a, in another neighborhood where if you look up and down the street, you know who's doing what. Everybody knows who's doing what. And the reason I chose this street, it's because right around this time, right around 17, uh, my sister had an apartment and my father had reached back out to us and he lived at one of the block. My sister lived on the other. And so I would park on that street and I'd, you know, I'd kind of sneak into my sister's house, sleep on our capital, but not get in and out before her kids woke up. And so this guy would see me. And to be honest with you a few times or one time, I know for sure, uh, I was in my sister's house cooking up something in the afternoon for the kids when they were coming back from school. And, um, I look out the window and this guy was breaking into one of Harold's trucks is, you know, just some young kid was breaking into one of his trucks, three in the afternoon. And I go flying of her apartment. I go out there and I sneak around to the driver's side because what he's doing is he's trying to pull the stereo out and I'm just watching him. He didn't cut the wires yet, so I'm thinking all this through in the moment that this, the radio can still be salvaged. He hasn't done anything that can't be fixed yet. And the guys down there working and I just go, hey, and I'm standing right there and the driver's window, hey. And the guy looks up and as soon as he looks, as soon as I see his nose turn right cross right to his nose, just hit him as hard as I could. And now blood flying everywhere. I opened the car door and it was like, come on, get out, get out. And the guy is looking at him, you know, thinking he's about to get a total beating, get out, not now going good. I don't want to see on this block again, this is not what we do around here. And the guy stand in the middle, the street bleeding. And what I didn't realize is heralded, seen that. And then after that he came out and he talked to me, said, Oh, you know, thank you for that. So that's, so when you say he knew me, that's how in the type of way he knew me, that's a pretty good way. And so yeah. So I felt really comfortable asking him for him. Yeah. I said, I know you have a business, I'll do anything. Yes. And is a snake and Ruder as you might imagine as plumbing and a lot of drain cleaning. And he handed me a shovel. Okay. The first day I went to, I'll never forget it, it's, it sounds like a character almost of the situation. But he literally had a spade shovel and just arm fully extended said, here you go. And I said, okay. I didn't even ask for Duran. I said, okay, on the soul. And stood there. And he goes, well, you're going to hop on this truck today and you'll do whatever they tell you to do. And I said, okay. And I started digging ditches with the sewer crew. We were digging up lines. And that's how I, that's how I got started in this industry because almost immediately before that was a dishwasher and you know, every other horrible job and bus boy and I did insulation, installation, installation, installation. Yeah. Man. Fiberglass and all that. Yeah, that's a whole nother story. But yeah, just any kind of labor work I could do. So how long were you under the sewer crew? Not Long. Not Long. He was bought out by a major conglomerate that bought it by ars ars back in [inaudible] 96 maybe? Yeah, just had to be the early nineties for sure. Said nineties, somewhere in there. Okay. And then the merged five businesses together. And at the same time they did that. Everyone was getting reassessed. Uh, the man who is going to be the plumbing manager who took over the department just kind of looked at me and said, you know, what service can you run into? At that time I couldn't run any service, so I was of no value really. Uh, but in talking with me, I'd like to believe this. And over time I learned this. But in talking with me, he looked at me and he said, you know, I don't know that you're a ditch digger. Okay, why don't you come on into the office? I got some work for you. Would you think then, uh, cool air conditioning you can work inside. Yeah, man. So the first thing I did is I, I might have had $60 and I remember going to something like a Marshall's where you could get a dress shirt for like at that time, 10, $12, you know, that these see through white tee shirts, they were so poorly made, but it was a dress shirt with a collar. And I go and I grab it, at least two of those some and go to one of my friend's brothers who worked at uh, like j crew or something, cause he's the only guy I knew they would probably have some ties. And I just said, I know you've got ties. And he said, yeah, I've got a couple of said, let me borrow one. And so instantly I said, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to figure out this office thing or the same time every day, every day, man looking sharp, recycle those shirts, cleaning them in the sink. Nobody else is wearing a tie. That's, that's so cool that you hadn't, you certainly, you said you grew up in kind of the dirty blue collar neighborhood. Oh yeah. So no one was, you didn't see anybody getting under their truck and uh, or getting in a car and it was a suit and tie. No, no, but I knew that's what I had to do if I was going to be in the building and nobody wants to feel, how'd you feel your first few days walking in that place as an office employee? To be honest with you, I felt great. I was on top of the world because what we are doing, this was the big break. Okay. This was it. This was your chance. I was in and then, yeah, what I was doing is I got to put it right instantly in the call center again, because I could speak very articulate as far and, and attention to detail. Some of the technicians hated me on their truck because I'd really cleaned the truck and have all the tools organized before we could take off everything. Had to be a certain way. Really, really for those who don't know, I'm going to stop for a second fact. You go into your office, always been this, which is right next to me, and your books are all lined up. They're there. They're there from highest to lowest, kind of in ascending or descending order, depending on how you look at them, your offices immaculate. You were just the most organized man. I can imagine. You were the ultimate helper. Oh God. Yeah. If you like that type of stuff. Yeah, yeah. Otherwise it gets on your nerves. I liked that kind of stuff. So the, so they look at these attributes, uh, again, look at the articulation conversation, vocabulary, which wasn't extensive. No. But again to look at me. And so again, at this time, let's paint another picture jacket. This time I am a, I'm pretty heavy set. I'm five foot eight and around this time I'm hover around probably one 71 80 some chubby and I've got my beard and always edge my beard up kind of as a, as a jaw line. You know, you just do that edge right along your jaw line. And my hair is fully grown. Uh, never cut my hair until I was in my thirties. So my hair's all the way down my back. And, and again, when I knew I was going to go into the office, what I did is I had my sister start braiding my hair as in corn rolls, the braids that stick next to your scalp. And then she tied in a bun in the back because I said, okay, I'm going to be in the office. I need to have my hair above my collar. And so you've got this young Chubby Brown man with a pencil edged up beard and braids and his tie and his white shirt. This is clash of cultures, man, this, this, this, this, this is awesome. Go ahead. Yeah. So you did all that. So I did that and then so I go into the call center and you know, some of the things that they would have me do again because of detail orientation is reorganizing the invoices, you know, just filing things of that nature because it drives me nuts. If I opened up, if I'm looking for an invoice and I've found about out of order, I would say, why don't we do it this way? Why is it chronological or why isn't a numerical or how could we, you as a, and the office manager is just, sorry, hating me because you're doing here as his or her job or making them late because I was questioning everything. Oh yeah, okay. I know how they feel. And so this was a person who like left within a few months of me being there anyway, this was a person is like the bare minimum type of person. And the person that they replaced her with is this young black woman and she was just a rock star too. And she was my boss and she was, we were very similar. Okay. And aggressive, you know, we want to make it, you know, same, similar in the way that I would watch her were these, the women's business suits and I believe she might have had two or three that were ill cut, meaning that the slaves would be too long and pants would be too long. Right. You could see it, but she would wear it every day. Yeah. And she, I knew her actually because she was a cheerleader at a school across town. So I mean she's just gorgeous. She's got the attention of all the guys, you know, the techs do whatever. She says, hey boys, you know, you gotta run these calls, but always carried yourself as a professional. Yeah. Always carried yourself. You looked up to her? I did. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And she was one of the first advocates I had this spoke up for me and that she got promoted out of the call center to overall office operations. She said, Julian should run the call center. And then after that, uh, I took that position, had call center. And dispatch. And then from there got plumbing. So it's plumbing. What manager? Yeah, plumbing service manager. Yeah. So this was during this time with these five companies are being put together. Right. How long did that last for you? Honestly, I hung out there for anywhere. I honestly forget. It was anywhere from six to eight years. It was a pretty fun when you start snaking ruder and where I need to to when you left in [inaudible] 98 somewhere in there. Is that right? Yeah, it was a pretty good run. Yeah. That's a long time. Yeah. For as a young man, I, you know, I was a career person and the only reason I left is I had the opportunity. So we had gotten evaluated, uh, by what we call it, the corporate people. So we had the local people and we had what we call corporate, the carpet people are coming in and they came in and did some evaluations and based on performance, uh, the woman that I reported to and myself, I got a recommendation to join a regional meeting. And so we just knew nobody went to these regional meetings without getting some kind of corporate title. And we always looked at these corporate titles as these people were a little bit more protected. So there were certain people in our branch, uh, for example, I can be the plumbing service manager, but our HR and our g m uh, they would have like the ars name badge, their name badges were different. There was some, I forget the distinction, but even in their title it would carry the corporate name. Okay. Were others of ours didn't, it would still say, you know, like, uh, we lost the snake and rude her name, but there was another that was called, I'm losing the name right now, but it would have that brand as opposed to the RS brand. And so we started looking at the people who are starting to get those ars titles on their names, on their titles that okay, they already safe. They are getting moving to and safe a pay raise to, you know, that was the expectation of this region meeting, hoping to get her a corporate time. Oh, I knew that's what it was. There's no other reason to go your tap. This is my big chance. This is my big chance. Now, let's not forget though, that this is still, and for the listeners who may recall, um, you know, let me say this, actually, my mother is a product of the 60s. My mother was very much a part of, and, and my father as well, uh, though my father served in Vietnam, it was very much a part of the Cesar Chavez movement, which was about these migrant workers in California and being treated fairly and civil rights. And they're very much, you know, so I not only being educated by my mother, but very much about what's right and what's wrong. And it's probably now that I say it out loud, I think about why I didn't want to steal from my neighbors. You know, we're all broken. We're all looking to make a living. And she always put this thing in early in me, that community now as a young man who was homeless, that did turn into more anger. So this turned into I'm being oppressed. The man, you know, I hate society. It was a very, very angry young man. So even though even while you were at sneaking Rudy, yeah, yeah. So this was all beneath the surface. You know, everyone had a brewing under there. Oh. At all times. And if I ever got slighted, oh, it's because of my color. Oh. It's because of where I'm from. Well, it's because I don't have a college degree and maybe sometimes it was all right, but I still carried it as an angry. Is that what you look, the way you looked with a pony tail or is that cultural or, well, the hair was cultural. The Fam, my family being native and my grandfather and my father would, I saw models that they never cut their hair. The men never cut their hair. And we're of a Cheyenne origin and my grandmother, you know, all these, uh, subliminal things that happened as a child and they would talk about the beauty of the warrior man. I got it. And you know, and when they would say that, we'd go to these pow wows and the way they point, those guys are always the guys with the long hair and the muscles and they're big and they're they that that was a man's man to me. I would see that hair flowing. I'd see him standing erect and they had the booming voices when they would do their chance. And I go, that's a man. Got It for me. The man wasn't a suit and tie to me. It wasn't that. It was more of a physiological dominance. I got it. Okay. So yes. Yeah. So now tie that in with where I live that heck yeah. You better believe that I was used to having a frown on my face. You know, you, you go buy up and down my street and in Aurora and if any of you want to go, it's off of Colfax is little street called Moline and is still pretty much the same. You just go right on by there and a yeah, if you bumped down the street with a too big of a grin on your face, somebody's probably going to challenge you. Just just kind of skipping down the block, smiling easy mark at that point as the one way to say it. Yeah. So you, you had a look of of toughness and it's so deeply ingrained in the combination of, of your heritage and being proud of that the right part in the, in the marking of the males that you, that you looked up to. Definitely the meals that I looked at it, you're being a little, you know, beard around the, on the street did for sure on the street. They did for sure. Yeah. I mean, and to be honest, I wasn't even modeling those native men that I was seeing. I was modeling the men and I'm going to use that term loosely that I saw on the block because most of these guys are maybe two to four years older than me. Okay. Because those are the only men that we saw it. Most of these guys were that the dealers and the gangsters in these things. Because again, now remember back to an experience where d rock said you got to look out for these guy. These are the same guys who are looking out for me so to speak. All right. They wouldn't break in my car cause that's all I had. It's fortunate man. Yeah. So I'm protected it and so I have almost a loyalty to this, to this culture. Okay. All right. So now we've set the table now. So now we're going to this region meeting at ars, right? We do a little, a little sidebar there and that's okay because we got a little context. It's context that takes us into this meeting cause I, I feel this meeting's important. It is important. It was a moment where one of those moments where I made a choice, and this is how I recall it, uh, I can say that it's open to interpretation, but certain facts cannot be disputed. And I, I forget if it was Dallas or Houston, I just recall that it was, that was our region. We were going down there. I mean, honestly, Jack, as a child, I flew back and forth to new to New York. I had family there, but this was my first business trip, getting on a bike lane for business and amen. You know, where am I tie when I was so cool, just everything hotels paid for, the flights wicking fresh, you know, that the taxis paid for. Again, I've made it, you know, this is a big deal. And honestly, you know, the other part that adds to the sting of this story as I'm sure telling my mom, you know, told her that I'm, you're going on Brown, like a, you know, she's proud. I always knew you'd be alright. Yeah. So I walked into this meeting and what I hadn't realized was the culture and, and have jokingly and totally honestly, you know, I walk into this room full of men and it looked like Jack, you know, Jack Right now. Yeah. They're, they're, they're white men with gray hair and then, you know, then their Khakis and their blue blazer, they're wearing the white guy uniform. And uh, you know, they're just joking. They're just having a good time. I got it. And, and that's why I don't think anything of it. You know, I've got my seat at the table. This is cool. And I want to learn how we do it. And um, and I don't recall like, cause I don't know who it was to be honest with you, but one individual, one man, again, remember I'm walking in with my boss at the time. She's five foot, two light skinned, black woman, gorgeous here. I come with my braids and we're both in our, our best suits at the time. And one of the guys look something, he goes, oh, the Colorado team. And there's a few other staff with us too. What's the Colorado team? You get, Hey, oh you must be. And he calls out the young lady by the name calls me out by name. He said, yes, you know why it was what good, we need some color on the team. And that was his exact comment in this full room. And I remember I was most proud in that moment that I didn't attack him. Like I seriously wanted to just walk right over and just punch him. Like he was stealing a radio that I just wanted to give him the one where he knew where I was coming from. And I stood there and I, and I remember being in paralysis and I think shock is, I reflect on it because I remember I couldn't move. I remember that so vividly. Like I couldn't move. And I think that was for the safety of me and this individual. And I just remember it went blurry and I got tunnel vision and I just did an about face, walked out of that room and went back to my hotel room and sat there fuming. Didn't leave that room until it was time for my flight to go home. I'd never checked back in to that meeting. Nobody ever checked on me. So you would have stayed overnight? Yeah. Yeah. And just stayed in your room and brutal and just do, oh yeah. And I'll fight insensitive. And after that I never even went back to work. So, you know, that's something that I have to you. So you drove, flew back and you never even walked back. And it's in every walk back in the building. Really? Yeah. Never again. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. There was no, uh, there's no two week notice there. There was no graceful exit there. And the, one of the most interesting things, and also kind of speaks to my anger as a young man, one of the most interesting things is one of the technicians that I really got along well with, popped up at my doorstep two, three weeks later. And I see him sitting out there in his uniform and the company truck and I was mad, what are you doing here? And he says, Hey man, what happened? What's going on? Everybody's worried about you. And then that sentence made me even more upset. Everybody's worried about me, but no one's called me. Nobody stopped by everybody's worried about you, what's going on? And I said, you don't have to worry about me. I've found something else. You know, again, just being rigid and independent and self righteous and all of those things in that moment. Yeah. Yup. Wow. That's how I left. That's how he left. Okay. Wow. That's a, you know, and everybody else probably did people know that they offended you? Did the, did the woman you were with identify? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And she stayed with him for a period after that. Now, in fairness to her, she did reach out to me, but she gave us some cooling off time. She knew, you know, she grew up in neighborhood too. She knew a young pissed off man needs space and that's all she gave me. Yeah. We're still friends to this day. She's not with them anymore. She's doing other things. But she stayed there for a while on you. You're telling that story and I can't remember if and when, but it's likely I've said something like that at some point in my career. Well, yeah, not, not just being flip, maybe even calling out that I'm cool or something too. You know, it wasn't her that way. I know. You know what, it's, it's, it's, cause I'm never on the other side of it. Yeah, I know my context. Yeah. Yeah. Growing up in a 100% white neighborhood and I'm not prepared at that time emotionally to have a conversation. You know, I wasn't even prepared or equipped to say, hey, you know, I don't like that. Or what did you mean by that? I had no group in a big, yeah, I don't look like anybody in there, you know, I'm already filling out a place, uh, you know, be the boss that said that in the bosses. Well everybody laughed. Everybody laughed. It wasn't like it went silent and no one was uncomfortable with it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 35:38

So for you. Yeah. And maybe you're though your friend was with theater. Okay. Well that's, that's uh, I think that's a, well it's, it's, it's an interesting story and a good lesson. It is. It is for, for one, for people like me. Right? Yeah. And, but, but for, for folks like you, because you know, I don't know what if you handled it the right way, if you go back and do a difference and not go there, cause then that's a different time. A different person. So what happened next for, for Jay?

Speaker 2 36:03

So then I, I, I swore off the industry, I said, because the other thing that was really great as I did have time there as, you know, a plumbing service manager. And what I didn't realize that I had actually learned, I really learned P and l management. Yeah. Yeah. And I hadn't realized that I'd taken it for granted. Even the things that we do now, like the technicians scorecard and the coaching and tracking manager or job costing. Like I didn't realize all the things I had learned. That's just what I was, I had pride in my work and those were what I was supposed to do. So I learned all that. I learned all these operations, went off on a, and I found a job with a food distribution company. And, uh, that's when I realized how much I actually knew about operations. Call Center Rep, you know, I knew I could get a job quickly, call us in a rep, you can get that job anywhere. So I went there and then as I was looking over again looking at some of the orders and invoices and started questioning the manager, they're organized, right. And she turns me over to the operations manager, said, you know, Julie has got some questions that I can answer and a really nice guy at that time. And he just goes, man, you know, what have you been doing? And you know, you kind of pulls me again because at a glance it my, for my interview to me walking in that building every day, if you looked at me, people would probably just saying, let's just make sure this guy's instilling stuff. You know, that's just how I looked. I had a mean face, you know, I had a bad posture, you know, and, and then he said, he said, what are you been, where are you from? What do you know? And I started to learn that business. So that happens. And then I run into one of the people who was a real advocate for me at ars. Uh, his name is Ed Coleman. Yup. And, uh, he had worked there with me and he had left and I didn't know though that he had left and, uh, started working at plum line, who's next door mixed our member and a bumps into me at a gas station and he's this loud, boisterous guy, phase you that didn't know him. Big Six, six big old hunting, fishing, mustachioed boisterous guy. And uh, Julian. And as soon as I heard it, I knew who it was. I'm very happy to see him, you know, he really taught me a lot. He actually, and I'm going to use this term, set me up to be the plumbing manager. He had me run a lot of his reports. He had me do a lot of his work for a period during that transition in an acquisition. And I was very resentful to him for a period. And as soon as we got the assessments, as soon as the corporate guys came and were assessing all of us, like, Oh, you're the service manager, because I knew all of that stuff. And then I realized what he had been doing. Hey Julian, what do you have to man? I said, well, you know, I'm doing this thing, a food distribution. Oh, okay, you got to come work with us. And I said, what are you doing? You remember? Oh, Jeffy belt. Cause Jeff had actually worked in one of the businesses and the back of the building that had been family, it's sold their business. Right. So yeah, we were all, we were all kind of an incestuous in that way in the industry. Yeah. And uh, oh yeah, I remember him. Yeah. He started this thing and come check it out. And I go, what is it in the industry? Yeah, we're, you know, we're, we're plumbing, heating and cooling. Oh No, no. I know what it takes to win in that business. I'm not going back. And what I meant by that is, you know, the model that I had seen is we, we had over 200 technicians at, at the SRS location at their time. And I mean, we just ran these guys into the dirt. It was instilled in me from upper management at that location that, you know, I don't care what they say, give him one more. I don't care what the customer says. And until they have a lawyer, we don't give them a penny back. And you know, you run these guys until there till you can't run them anymore and you never give a penny back to the customer. And I said, and I saw the, the money that we made and I go, I know what it takes to win in this game. And I'm not, it's not me. I don't align with it. It doesn't feel good. And at the time, the food distribution company I was working with was family owned. So again, I'm getting this small filling and I can see the owner every day. And he's this wonderful Italian American who's almost stereotypical. He's got the big mustache and given us turkeys and wine at Thanksgiving and riding his Harley with Italian flags on the back of it on Columbus Day. And he's just, he's just a mess. And he was great and amazing guy. So I'm not walking away, but I did because I respected it and I wanted to go see what these, these men had bill and uh, went to work with them. Started call center, you know, CSR, you gotta start as a CSR Julian. Okay. And they sent me to my first, next to our training. Okay. What was it was call center call center and I said what the heck is what's going on? I think, I think I could be wrong. I think it might have been Bob Hamilton leading that class and probably Sherry shared benefit because I recall it was a man and a woman running this class. And I, and again for my taste, I is a little hokey. Like this is a little goofy. Just give me this stuff. Right. Cause there was all this talk at your table and see what your neighbor thinks. Toys right on the wall. Yeah. And playing with the toys, it's just give me the stuff, it's telling me how to be good. But by the end of the third day, as we see now and made a bunch of friends yeah. Learned a lot and was really excited. And, uh, you know, I'll even say that, you know, Jeff as the owner of the company and he had a right hand man, John Hagy, you know, they taught me a lot. They're ones that I was really, I believe the reason that I was open to the coaching that they gave me in the development that I, I actually, I knew a lot of business when I got there. I didn't know a lot of business savvy on sense and operations, but I didn't have the personal development steel yet. Yeah. And, uh, John More than Jeff. And that's only because Jeff worked through. John would pull me to the side and have conversations with me and challenge my thinking at times and asked me where I was coming from and get to know about me. And, and similarly, you know, things like at this point in time, I had my first son when I was 19. So now by this time I'm a father and yeah. You know, I'm providing and uh, and they would do things. I'll never forget this. Jeff pulling me into his office one day and he said, you know, hey, how are things going? Everything's great. You know, what does he want? Why is the owner calling me into his office? Yeah. It's football season. Yeah. And uh, heard you cut your son's team. Yeah, I sure do. He says, okay, well here's what I want you to do. I want you to write down the practices that you absolutely cannot miss in the games that you absolutely cannot miss. You know, your current schedule. I can't promise that you'll get to every practice and can't prompt you get to every game. But if you really look at that calendar, you'll decide what you absolutely cannot miss. If you get that to us, we'll help you with your schedule. Okay. Just that gesture right there. I was confused. I'd never heard anything like this. Okay. Wow. This guy is acknowledging, I actually have a family and he's treating me with respect and not looking at me like, you know, some young punk who had a kid and then he's just talking to me, hey, this is what's important to you. Let's figure it out. Yeah. That, and then they sent me to training. So all of these things started to open me up. I saw the investment in me and now I have an ear for when they would challenge me or correct me or say again. So again, being young and knowing operations, I, even though I could say that the old way of Mrs, I didn't like it being young and wanting to prove myself. I'm sure I came into plumb line very aggressive initially with some of my coworkers and staff. And I think we've got to get this number, we've got to get it and we've got to drive and we've got to, yeah. And they were very, uh, they invested in me too, to challenge some of that things. You say, how could we do it differently? Right. How could you collaborate? Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. So he got back in the industry. Now I'm back now Julian, I want to own a, I'm going to push forward a little bit. Yeah. Cause I want to talk about this a little bit is you ended up in Atlanta. I did as an operations manager for a Nexstar company, which is where the first time I met you. Yes. So you, you, uh, just quickly tell us how you got to Atlanta. Yeah. Let's, let's, let's really quickly talk about that because this is one of the stories that I share and people say I've had a similar experience. So whether being homeless or whether being in a rough neighborhood, all of these things, these are, these are, these are, these are real Americans stories. Okay. It's not, there are some demographics that see it more frequently, I believe, or systemically, but that's another conversation. Um, so what's happening at this point in time? I am working at a plumb line and a man, I'll never forget this for a year. My son and I, because I'm raising my son, uh, is, it's just the two of us. Uh, I'm in sole provider, he's living with me and I'll, I'll remember for a year I had this plan and I called it the sandwich plan and sits and we're going to eat chips and sandwiches for a year to save enough money to get a house. But that was to rent a house. You know, I wasn't thinking buying right, but if I could just rent one of these shotgun houses, because again, as you go down Moline from all the apartments that I lived in, then you get the shotgun houses at the end and I go, I'm going to get us a house son. I'm going to get us a house and here's the plan. And I did it, you know, fortunately also though through plumb line promoting me and developing me and giving me more money. So what happens is one day my son and I are just got back from football practice, whipped up spaghetti, we turn it on a movie and a, I hear it, my screen door open and the house isn't huge. So I looked to my left and there's two guys standing right there, but I don't know, said, hey guys, you know what's going on? Uh, and two guns come out. Oh man, the two guns. Right, right. You know, they pull a gun out and my son's sitting right there and my son, maybe around this time, I don't want exaggerate, I don't recall exactly, but maybe 12, 12 years old. And uh, they pull a gun out. And so I started walking straight towards the guy and he puts it right to my head and I don't know what the second guy did. He kind of motioned like he was gonna raise his gun towards my son and I don't know, whatever I did, the lead guy says, Hey, don't point the gun at the kid because I'm sure my physiology changed. Yeah. And I said, [inaudible]. I said, hey guys, I don't know what you're looking for, but you've got the wrong house, home invasion, whatever they're looking for is, you know, they went through the whole house. They held us at gunpoint, they turned the house upside down. I don't know what they were looking for, but they had the wrong house at that moment in time. And I'm going to, I'm going to be very direct here. Uh, I did have a thought that night. You know, I, I called, uh, my son's mother, who I want to be very clear. She wasn't absent. We're just doing what we had to do. And I said, Nate needs to come over tonight. She says, okay. And I didn't tell her why at first, she just said, okay. And, uh, that night I just remember sitting in that house and mourning the loss. And He, and I don't want to say of innocence, but the fact that I had, I got the house, I had made it, I had this good job, but I just still wasn't far enough away. And I, and I, I'm more night, I cried. I, I was a mess. I mean, just like really like sobbing, like that heavy breathing, like a child doesn't, where they can't even talk. And, uh, uh, and you know, in all honesty, I did have a gun in the house and, um, and I just kept thinking I had a reoccurring thought. Either I have to kill them or they're going to kill me because they didn't wear masks when they came in, which is very bizarre. Okay. So you knew who they were and I'd never seen him before. Okay. But that's the reoccurring thought. Now this is my mentality being in the streets that they know who I am. I get it. And so they know I'm either coming for them and if I come with them, they're exactly. And my son walks to school every day, write down the same block. Oh boy, right here. The school's only a few years away. So this is the reoccurring thought kill or be killed. They're either coming to finish the job now, they just didn't want to do it in for my son or I have to kill someone. And I remember then, so the next day I go to go to, uh, Nathan's mother's house and I said, I need to stay here for a while too. And then I told her what happened and she says, of course you guys will figure it out. You know, we're all on the couches. We'll figure it out. And I remember walking across the street and across the street from her apartments, there's this, you know, the, the Mega Walmart, and I think it's called a good times. It's a burger place. And I'm sitting out there, uh, again, just crying, just mourning the loss. My life is over. I don't know what I'm going to do. And I'm this and it's dusk and this car pulls up. And I don't know even know why I'm thinking this way, but this car pulls up, the headlights are on me, and I'm sitting outside that, these little benches outside and the headlights and just stay on me a little too long. And I'm going with it. Is this, is it, this is it. This is the guys. Yeah. And I don't have a gun on me. And I go, well, I'm not just going to stand here and take it, you know, I'm going to run, I'm going to fight, I'm gonna do whatever I have to do. But I remember that feeling because what I had resolved to the night before, right before I went for that walk, as I resolved in my heart, I said, I'm not going to kill anybody. Okay. And it's bizarre, but I like, these are the little thoughts I'm having in my head. You either have to kill or be killed. And then a few hours later that next morning I go, I'm not going to kill anybody. I'm just not going to do it. Yeah. Because at first and because if I do that, then somebody coming from me, I'm like, now it's a cycle. Now it's, I know where this goes because I've seen it happen in the neighborhood. So these headlights are on me. I get worked up, the headlights go off to elderly people and they are just helping each other out. The car is slow as they can and now I'm feeling like an idiot and I go, am I going to live this way the rest of my life? Right. And so, and, and I'm getting where we're going, Jack. No, you're doing great. They hop out and I watched this moment, they go to the man sits down at a bench just across from me. Uh, the woman goes to the window and she orders the smallest ice cream cone and small vanilla ice cream cone. And she comes back and they share it. She takes a look, he takes it like, and they're just sharing it. And, and I remember this so vividly that I looked at their beat up old car and I looked at them and I said, look how poor they are. Look at how poor they are. They have this beat up car. When I'm that age, if I have a beat up car and have to share an ice cream cone with my wife, I'm a failure. And I thought that. And in that same moment I broke out in tears because I went, they're richer than me because they have their freedom. They're not looking over their back. And it almost an instant, it's shifted from, they're so poor too. I hope I can be as rich as them someday. If I could just walk down the street and I have to think about like they're rich. It happened in an instant and as soon as I did that, I said, the only way out of this is I have to leave. I have to, I can't get far enough away, can't get far enough away. So I honestly left everything in the house. Uh, I had a buddy of mine who I just, I explained to him what happened. I said, I said, look, I'll pay the rent, you know, up through the rest of this period, you know, would you kind of help me out or whatever, you know, and just, I felt there was an honorable thing to do, but just took my clothes. And then my cousins that I mentioned earlier, both of them had moved to New York. So the one that did, uh, went to, uh, Pennsylvania University and then the other one had found himself out there and a job. And I just said, I'm going to, I got to come to New York because that's where my family always wants to travel back and forth. So I just said, I've got to come out there. I'll do anything. And all I had was my clothes and I went out there and I got into like this boiler room type of sales and I figured I'd push through and persevere. I can make it, you know, if I can make a New York, I'll make it. I couldn't stand it. I'm not as salesy guy. I'm not that aggressive. I didn't like what they were doing. It was underhanded, what they were doing and I lasted maybe three months, maybe three months. And being the person that I am, what I did is I had these cards from all the Nexstar members I had met over the years at events, at groups and, and I'm serious. It was a stack of a good 20 to 30 business cards that I always kept. And so I thought, because I knew I didn't want to raise my son in New York, I knew that I was just going to go there to figure things out for a moment. I just had to get away. And so my core thinking was my son at point, even in middle school is being sought after for his athleticism, uh, that he had the potential for scholarships for football. And so I said, okay, where do I want to put them in school? And I landed in either somewhere in the south or in California. And then as I started to call members, I started to call members in Florida, uh, called a guy in Atlanta and call it a couple of people in California, southern California. And I had an opportunity, I don't even recall who it is right now, but there was somebody in California and he was close to Long Beach and I saw that there's Long Beach Polytech, which is a school where Nate could definitely get seen if I got them there. And then I looked at were for what they were paying in for where I'd be living, that I would just be right back where I was. Yeah. And I didn't want to do that in the hood. Oh Man. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't know. Yeah. I didn't know what it costs to live in California. Right, right. And so I started looking at the time that it would take for me to get out of the hood and California. I don't want to do that. Yeah. And I didn't know anything about this health and the guy in Atlanta that was very aggressive, he's like, come out, come see me, we'll get this thing started. And I get out there and, and you know, he, he's doing well and I see the south and I'm checking the prices that I could afford it. And I go, this is nice. Like I make this work, I can make this work. And it's schools that I know, my son will be seen. I know the football year round out there. Yeah. And, uh, so yeah, that's, that's the, the story of the, of getting to how I left and ended up in Atlanta where you met. You met

Speaker 1 51:49

me. Yeah. So I'm going to talk about that because I think it's, it's interesting cause I think it's going to tie back to a lot of what you've talked about so far. Yeah. So this company and the company was all phase in Atlanta and uh, the owner called me and I was a business coach at this time and he said, Jack, come on down. I want to have you helped me with my business. I'm excited to, to, to move this thing forward. And I think there were plumbing and just started heating and air conditioning, a lot of different things going on in that business. Right. And very, very, very extreme. He was built on new construction. So that was part of the, I came down to help him. Part of my pitch to him was I said I can build a residential department. Right. I know how to do that. Yeah. Don't, I'm not going to touch that new construction. I didn't know anything about it. And you can have that. Yeah. Okay. So, uh, so I rolled into the business and he tells me how to time. He says, you gotta meet Julian. Julian's is great guy who's working with us. In fact, we're going to have dinner with Julian some of these nights too, so you'll get to know him. And he's helped me with my business. So, um, so I, I roll into the company, right. And uh, I'm a business coach. I got a suit and tie on you remember? You probably remember the whole, yeah. Yeah. And uh, so it's in you or your desk was in the middle of the office and open office, open office. See the visualize. I'm going to guess a 20 by 30 foot room and your desk was in the middle of it and there's people around it and uh, I met you and you are huge. Yeah. By then, now I'm over 200 pounds. Yeah. I mean you weren't like sloppy fat, but you look like a, like a dead lifter yells something or yes, rock breaker or whatever I'm thinking of right now. That's it. That's the big heavyset guy with like big shoulders and you couldn't put your arms straight across your body because your body was so wide and your were big and you had this massive ponytail. Yup. And I didn't expect, I didn't know what Julian Julian, I'm seeing. Right. And of course my context, again, even in this industry, Julian, I will say this, that, that, you know, I, I came into the industry in [inaudible] 85 I grew up in a upper middle class home. You know, literally in my, in my grade school in Alabama, there was one black man in the school and he was a teacher's kid. There was none. Right. I didn't grow up with any, you know, never, never played with young people of color at all. Right. Um, and then it moved to Milwaukee and it was just as white, right. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Right. Then I went to college at Duluth, Minnesota. You know, it was, couldn't have been wider. Right. There's natives there, but it couldn't been whiter. And in this industry for started in [inaudible] 85 this is an entirely, especially in Minnesota, was entirely Anglo industry. Yeah. So I now, by this time I of course I worked with some folks and uh, but I saw you and it, it, it definitely was like, Whoa, what's this? Right. And then I remember we had, I don't remember anything else about the day. Other, can I share this Julian? Oh, I'm sure I know where you're going. Yeah. You were on the phone with somebody and you were yelling on the phone at the top of my line at the top of your lungs. Don't you disrespect me, don't you say I'd said that I, it was like, it was real. I've never experienced that as a coach walking into a call center and I'm seeing this man come on glued on the phone. That was you? Yeah. And then we were over at Mark's house.

Speaker 2 55:04

Do you recall what I said as soon as I hung up? No, as soon as I hung up the exact, and you maybe you didn't hear it, but the exact words out of my mouth, cause I remember fuming and staring at that phone and saying it doesn't even matter what he just said to me. I'm the full really. Yup. Okay. Because I knew, I knew that he had pulled me in and it didn't even matter what he said to me as far as everyone in that room, I looked like a complete idiot because I was, I mean, top of my lungs, if he had been in person, we would have had to been separated from what he said to me.

Speaker 1 55:34

Oh yeah. I haven't seen that at that level in a long time. Anyway, so then we go to, to Mark Davis, his house, it, who's the owner of all phase. And we had dinner and we, and you come over for dinner and you, and now this time you had your ponytail up in a bun. I remember that. And he said, Julian, will you lead us in prayer? And you, and you had this most eloquent prayer I'd ever heard of my life. Yeah. Right. It was just amazing what you were doing. And I've had consistent, articulate, thoughtful man. Right. And that's not the impression I got to you walking in that business. No Way. Right. Oh, interesting. Yeah, that's interesting. So, um, what, what I want to go to now. So that's my impression, right. Then we started working together as a business coach and you as the operator and I think we had a pretty decent relationship there for a year or two was as the business and a business struggle then ultimately you'll have the business. Yes. Right? Yup.

Speaker 2 56:27

But we did great. I, I do want to park there, Jack, you did great with the guidance that you gave and the action that we took. We really did. We, we grew that business. It did really, really great. It was just, you know, as far as leadership lounge, this speaks to dysfunctional leadership teams. There's no amount of money, revenue or profit that can fix, uh, dysfunction and lack of health.

Speaker 1 56:52

And I've seen it firsthand. That's right. Because your business, you know, it's, no, I'm not gonna point fingers here, but it was dysfunctional leadership team there at your business and you are, and what I recognized in you is you were trying to keep it together. I mean, and I, I remember a conversation with you, Julia at the time. So Julian, this is where you're going to show what you're worth if you stay through it. Yep. And, and, and be a man of integrity as you work through this. Cause I remembered, you know, the, the parallel I had in my life was I remember when ars was being sold. Okay. And, and I was a leader in that business and it was really easy to check out because you know, the, the, we knew that the current leadership team would be gone, right. And you know, so whatever we did in that interim period really didn't matter. Right. Right. So you could cut out, you could, you could, you know, the no one was holding anybody accountable. It was just you're playing out the string. Right. And I remember watching certain people at the business live into that and, and, and do a, be a good employee in certain people take advantage of the situation. I remember thinking about that as I watched you and you didn't take advantage of situation. You are the, you're the adult in the room is what I saw.

Speaker 2 57:59

Right. And I want to add onto that and say for the listeners, even though I have a good heart, even though by nature I had that ethic, it's still did me a world of good to hear it. Okay. So even make sure that you know with your, with your great employees and the people that you love, there's no harm in reaffirming the attributes and characteristics because that would be fuel for me because again, I'm looking at Jack as a successful person. For him to say that there would be days where my energy was low and I would think, screw it. I can leave. I'm just going to, nobody else is here. I'll get a lawyer. I've put in more hours than anybody in here anyway, right? Today be my day. And then I would, that could replay in my head and said, what am I going to be most proud of? What you're going to be. Yes. You'll look back on this and then now sit on this podcast and say, yeah, I picked that weight up one more time when I was tired, right? I walked one more mile and I was tired. And there's a pride that goes with that. For sure.

Speaker 1 58:48

Yeah. Yeah. So the, and I recall that feeling I had to. So, um, I'm glad that, uh, you know, so it was thinking back on that, you know, you really showed yourself well in that, in that transition, and then it finally came to an end there at all face, you know, will you decide to leave in the business was in a position where it could even afford a person like you. Right. So you left and you called me up and said, I want to be a coach. Jack knows, right? You call me and you said, I want to be a, I want to be a coach and say like me, but you're out. That's what you want to do. Yeah. And I remember thinking the world to you, but thinking you didn't have enough experience and I didn't know, I thought she just worked at all face. I didn't know, you know, just listening to what you've been through right now, it's like, wow, I probably underestimated you a little bit, but I didn't think

Speaker 2 59:31

you don't sell myself well, I don't own that. Allows you to salesmen say that right now, but

Speaker 1 59:37

I didn't think you could be a business coach. Of course, I'll only coaching positions we had at that time, business coaches, it was a big deal. And you know, you, you, you hadn't really been, uh, a single GM and you know, I was looking for a certain profile and I didn't think you fit it at the time. Um, so we slowly lost touch with each other

Speaker 2 59:55

and even, even again, as I looked at that bench, what they looked like that we had here at next door at the time, I said, I don't look like that. And to be honest with you, my patients in thinking, even when I called and told you that I didn't expect anything but time and I, and I always have felt like in my life, I will have the time. One of the first things I did is I went out and I created a free website. I started with Julian coach Julian. And I had started to a coach. I started to do continue continuing ed classes with my local PHCC. Uh, and what I would do is I would, I did a monthly email and Jack was one of the people that I had copied on that list. And so as I was building my coaching client tell there for a couple of years in Atlanta, I made sure that he was still on that list. And I said, I know that he perceives me as not ready yet. And I believe a part of me didn't feel ready, which is why I wasn't aggressive. I said, I felt like I did one more than hundred salesmen either. I'm not. Yeah, no, I'm pretty easy. So I said, I'm just going to go and get the experience. I'm just going to go out and show him that I, I am a coach. Right. And, and so that's part of what I did for a couple of years as well.

Speaker 1 1:01:01

So I'm going to begin to wrap up with, uh, with, with just how we kind of became reacquainted cause I think I want to share my story there too. Cool. So, um, business coach you didn't feel was right for you. And uh, several year left late years later we had this idea to create these training accountability program, this idea that, that we wanted to create a coach position where we could help the managers of people who send folks to training, make sure that they're following up on that training to make sure the training that we give the pavers we teach actually gets used in the field with customers where it matters. We saw this huge drop off, they love the training, but then they go home and then they don't do what we train all the way and then it falls off. So we wanted to create a position to do that. So as it was, I will say it, it was kind of junior in some respects to the business coach. Very, very important. But you know, it, it'd be working with service managers, it'd be working with installation sales managers, those kind of people. We thought. So I remember this is brand new, you know, we, we didn't create the position with anyone in mind. We just said this was a need. And the Scott and figure it out. So I remember I was sitting at my desk with Scott Pearson and we were thinking about who could be this first hire. And I was just going through kind of who I remembered and I said joined scan, we could talk to Julian. And I remember telling Scott, now this is this the transparently sharing this. Yeah, but he's really, I got long hair. He really looks rough. Right. But you know, he's a smart guy. Let's, let's see what he's doing in life. So I remember I, I googled your name and I came across this still active but essentially dormant website coach Julian. And I left a message on the, you could go to the site and it just didn't leave a message and I typed a message in the angel didn't want to talk. Right. And like the next day or that later that day, you must have still been monitoring that thing. That's right. And you saw my name and, and you reached out. So, um, we talked and I remember I was talking to him getting away and you were working for the department of Motor vehicle services.

Speaker 2 1:03:01

George, at this time I picked up an operations position, was running their motor vehicle department. I bet you rent it well too. But anyway, over almost a million people in that county. That's amazing. Eight different locations. Okay. Proud of that.

Speaker 1 1:03:13

You did, you did a good job. Right? And I said, Julian, would you be interested? I explained the role and you said I'd be very interested. Right. And then I said something that I've sensed really regretted, right. Because I didn't know context. And I said, Julian, I have to ask, do you still have the ponytail? Yup. And you said, no, I didn't. Tell me how you felt when I said that. And I'll tell you how I feel after the fact.

Speaker 2 1:03:40

Yeah. I honestly, when you asked that question, everything and me wish that I still did. Yeah. I just wanted to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you'd cut it. I had, I had, that was a hundred for locks of love, locks of love. Uh, I had made a joke, uh, but so really talking about fast forwarding onto the fourth child we just had, and I'm oddly are interestingly enough, uh, his name just happened to be Samson. And when we were looking for baby supplies, then the other thing we saw was locks of love. And I learned what that is, where you can donate your hair to make wigs for children who have survived cancer. And the, the brilliant husband that I am told my wife that someday I'll do that. And it was literally the next day I was driving to a job site, or I'm sorry, one of our locations and there was a detour and I had to go off the beaten path. And then I passed by this little salon and it said, locks of love right on there on their marquee. And I go, oh boy, that's a sign. So I did it. And then I realized having short hair is very low maintenance and I've never gone back.

Speaker 1 1:04:45

Yeah. But, but what I, you know, all I thought of was, you know, you didn't look like the rest of us. Yes. And I thought, how would our members react to this hulking guy with a big ponytail down his back? I had no, uh, I'm not making excuses for myself, but I didn't even consider that this was anything other than a tough luck, not a cultural luck that it was identifying with the people that you looked up to, was identifying with your native culture, all of these other things. And I know, you know, as soon as I said it, you could have done exactly what you did that they arrested me, hung up softly hung up silently sit in your room and student for a day and a half and you know, and, and you know with context, I'd like to think I wouldn't ask that question again because you know the character you was and I, and I told, I think I told you later, I like to believe it was true that a higher anyway,

Speaker 2 1:05:46

after you knew you had me. Yeah. Cause you are a good salesman.

Speaker 1 1:05:49

Yeah. I like to pick out a higher Jannie way. But, uh, I regret the question. How's that? I regret the question. That's fair. That's fair. And you like to learn from things like that. And hopefully you know that, that folks listening here, we'll, we'll consider, uh, that story as maybe something they can learn from as well, but on both sides of it. Exactly right. Exactly. Yeah, for sure. Well, that's an interesting journey all the way to next door and we're going to have another podcast when we talk about your current role and, and kind of how that interacts with, with my role because I think that's going to be interesting for members as they grow their business because we've been working through some things here ourselves.

Speaker 2 1:06:26

Yeah. I'm very, very proud and privileged of the work that we have done here and a grateful, just want to say for everyone who has had their journey, whatever their story is, uh, this is not to glorify anything that I have been favor to overcome. Just aware and grateful for all of the guideposts that have helped me through it and share all of this to inspire you all to simply know that you're greater than you ever thought you were. And as there are people that you see struggling when they're ready to meet you for that help to extend that hand but never charity, meaning that those will meet you halfway. We'll do the work with you and those are good people. And I appreciate everybody who met me halfway and helped me get here.

Speaker 1 1:07:04

Told a story about meeting a lot of people. Halfway your manager, they arrests this owner's snake and router at Coleman, Jeff Belk, Mark Davis, a lot of people on the way helped you out. They shared it, you know, but you are worth, worth helping for sure. So congratulations Julian. Cool. Your journey through this industry. It's a fascinating story. Um, there's, there's, there's 50 lessons in that for people that are willing to listen and apply and uh, I've learned a lot of things. I've worked for the a lot of years and I learned some things on this call that I didn't know and I appreciate that. So thank you. You're welcome. And we thank you all for listening to this really, really good episode of Leadership Lounge as Jack Tester with the amazing Julian scan. And we'll catch you next time. Thanks so much.