Growing People Grows Your Business, With Rob Carr

Jack interviews Nexstar member Rob Carr, owner of Mel Carr Electric. Rob talks about how building camaraderie with everyone on your team creates a foundation of support that fosters the cooperation you need to achieve business goals. 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:07

Right this Jack Tester and welcome to another episode of Leadership Lounge. I'm in Saint Paul, Minnesota. We have a electrical sales class going on and I looked at the roster of attendees last week and I saw a name on, I saw rob cars name and I said, I want to talk to rob because he's not a typical nexstar member and a lot of ways, but how you doing rob? I'm awesome, Jack. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it and I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. And you and you came along with one of your technicians is how many techs to your techs are here. And I did this class about six months ago again with Brad. Okay. And you're here as an observer, but when I went in there you weren't observing in the back. You were right in the middle of the tables mixing it up in there. It's tough to stay out of that class. It's a lot of fun actually. What do you like about it? Just curious. Biggest things that's electrical based and for an electrician coming into next star, that was something that we've wanted that, that we've really young too. So, uh, getting in a room with a bunch of nerds like us talking to in our speak, it was just absolutely all. So taking the service system and making it, you know, even though it's, it's different than the hac specific for sure, but to use just the plumbing or the electrical examples in there just makes it more relevant. Right. Almost. Yeah. It's, it's the purple pages in the book. You know what I'm talking about it. Yeah, I hear you. Yeah. That was my favorite thing that you guys ever did was it was giving us our own section. It gave us some, some validity. It gave us something to work off. It was awesome. You know, wherever the word said plumbing, we just replaced it with electrical. Right. So I can tell actually letting it know that electric sink. I don't know. That's great. All right. So, um, let's, so people don't know the reason I saw your name and thought this would be interesting just because, um, while you're, you're, you've reached out to us quite a bit about your interest in Nexstar. Absolutely. You know, one, there's been some comments about wanting more services for electrical members. So you've talked to us about that and you've been vocal about that. You've, uh, you've been just an involved, right? You kind of started discussion board, you know. Right. And it was just cool. Yeah. The Facebook groups are absolutely awesome. We love it. We love the nextdoor website to any of that techie stuff really speaks to me and be like that. Love it. Absolutely love it. I want next every single day. Right. I wanted the chance to be able to involve and you know, like I'm walking these halls every single day. I want to feel like that. Okay. Very cool. And then, um, also you had expressed some interest a couple of years ago about being on our board of directors I had. And part of that is part of your journey. Oh, most definitely. So we're going to talk about that, but we're not talking about that right away though. So just so people can get a sense of place. Tell us about where your business is and how big it is today and then we'll go to your story. Okay. Just get a snapshot. Sure. So we're a very, very small company by next our standards. We uh, for the first time ever in 2017 crossed a million last year. Thank you. Thank you. That was, that was a big, that was a real big deal for us. How long have you been in business to get to a million? 41

Speaker 2: 3:00

years. It took a long, slow and steady wins the race. Rob, one of the bigger thing was that we were next to remember since 2000. So this is 2000 since 2000. And math is right. That's 18 years. It's a real long time. Yeah. Wow. And so, but you come to join before you were even in the business, cause you're a young guy. How old are you? I'm 38. Yeah. So you're young, you're really young guy. And my father was searching for something. You're searching for an answer. We did all sorts of groups, all sorts of seminars. I went to Maurice Mayo and whatever else. Wow. And the past. Yeah, exactly. And uh, he found the winter without, without a doubt. He really enjoyed coming here. He loved talking to talk like he's a real personable guy. I love being with the people and we all got a lot out of it. I'm very cool. So your business for a lot of years it was, was it always around a million? It was that kind of the no, no, no. When I took it, when I bought the company in 2010, we were about six 40. Okay. We've doubled since in the time that I've been there. But really it wasn't until about three or five years ago that we really started drinking the Koolaid, like frank says, um, you know, getting into the next door system and really applying it. Just take the medicine. Oh, sorry. My bad. We say take the Kuwait, but thanks. I'll take a medicine. He's something else. That guy, he's brilliant. Yeah. So, um, so you, you had, but you had a great year that an 18, right? What happened in 18 nominal year and 18? Yeah, we came, uh, just just shy of 30% growth for the year and most importantly, 10.2% profit. And that was the big number. That's the modulation. Thank you. That's, that's a nice year by any measure. That's a really, yeah, it was wonderful. And I mean five years ago we were, we were, we were in the red on, on our profit numbers. So it was one of those things to really go back and look at it and to see just how far we've gone. Okay. So it's an interesting, let me, so this is, and then you listen, let's talk about your journey into the industry. So tell us about when you are 18 years old, what was going on and, and when did you step into a Mel car electric, which is in Albany, New York, by the way. So, um, my father was really good to me and my two brothers, he said, if you want to be in the business, great, if not, no problem. And, uh, my older brothers both chose the opposite and I did shut what, well, one's a hedge fund manager or an engineer. They, they went, they went away from the industry. They went away from it. They never really had the attachment to it like I did. Um, and uh, went to college, finished college, surely thereafter came back home and started a cell phone company with a friend of mine. You did? Yeah. Yeah. I had been working for sprint pcs before, so we thought we knew everything, but I said, we can do it better because we're just two guys and I know that shops are, I know that rob. That's awesome. Okay. So, um, aster, um, that didn't quite pan out for us. Yeah. Uh, I've made a call to my father and I said, you know what, I'm, I'm doing this stuff anyway. Let me see if I can be helping the, in the family business. And I'm so grateful that I, what year was that? A 2003. Okay. And then you bought the business 2010. So you worked alongside your father for seven years. Yeah. My

Speaker 1: 5:58

father was in the office at that point. It's next to remember for three years at this point when you came in that you are already a nexstar member melded found us and we found him and you guys were a part of Nexstar. Right. Okay. And we, um, we found ourselves in a situation where, um, we were, you know, we were doing things the way that we wanted to do things. We were next to our members somewhat in name only. Um, the stuff that we're doing today has a lot more buy in to the stuff we were doing back then. You know. What's an example of your own way or, oh God. The, the one I give all the time was a, we used to write quotes on the back of our business cards. I tell him any staff that, because there's a couple of guys who are still with us. A business card did have like a next to our logo. It is a bright yellow piece of paper. Okay. All right. Okay. And, um, you know, we slowly came in and started modifying. We had a couple of staff members who, um, were going to leave if, if we, uh, if we get uniforms, we're going to a really, oh yeah. So you avoided uniforms for awhile. Yeah, that was one of our best taxi with us was with us for 13 years. And uh, ultimately he left to start his own business, which more power to them, but it actually freed us up to do the things that we should've been doing all along while he was there. Um, getting the uniforms in and do what did your wood was and of course you didn't want to lose, you don't want to replace a good electrician over to uniform. Imagine that's what you and Mel talked about. Oh, and he was, he was the master that I worked underneath also. He was the guy who I was in the truck with. He was a good friend of mine, still is to this day. And uh, I've said before, you know, I wouldn't hire him back, even though he's a great electrician. He wouldn't buy in to our system. He wouldn't, you know, he was more a wrench in the system. Actually. So, why did you stay in next door? What were you doing? Well, we always had the love for nextdoor. We always felt that next star was the right answer, even if we weren't doing it quite right. And back then the electrical was not as prevalent. Right. So when it came to not as prevalent where and Nexstar well this is probably my own opinion. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, uh, all the examples were HVHC or plumbing. Occasionally there'd be an electrical one. Um, but you know, nowadays it's a lot more, well it's, it's fair what you just said, by the way. It's fair. You know, cause we started really with an expertise in the plumbing industry with frank and George Brazil and they were really renowned in that industry and you know, in Hvc became up strong competency kind of later. And electrical kind of was the last, right? That was, that was, I remember we signed our first electrical member of, I think it was Jay recipe. No. Oh Dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And New Orleans. And that was like 98. My father, Samuel tells a story about him and we had an ice cooler in the back of his shop so the guys could grab ice for the day. So that was the greatest thing in the world. That was, that was the biggest thing that was like, yeah, it was a big deal. I'm kind of joking cause it's pretty cool. Yeah. It's hot down there in Louisiana from what I understand. Right. That's cool. So anyway, we got, let's keep going. Uh, so, um, I, but we're starting the visits you mean? Yeah. Well you're, you're, you're, you're a part, you are next door right here. You were in the business now, right. And you were talking about the things that, that, you know, you weren't a member in name only, and I asked you what some of the things that, that you were, that you never change what was going on. You know, you have cliff time, material pricing, what was happening? We did take the flat rate right away. That that was something that we had gotten to even maybe a half a step before next star. Okay. Um, but that was about it. We weren't doing the service system at all. Okay. We came and we did our boot camp. We did our call center. We did our, uh, management classes. But really that was it. It was a onetime thing. You went, you got hyped up and you went back home and do whatever you wanted. Yeah. So that was a big waste of time. Unfortunately. I wish to God I had started a lot earlier and gotten more into it. I see. It was just kind of, it's kind of late to, the information is sitting in front of you without a doubt. How did you rationalize not doing it or what it was? What did you think? That's the easiest thing in the world, Jack? Just, just, we've been doing this, you know, the company's been around for 30, 40 years. What are you talking about? Where it's food on the table every night the guys come in and work, the lights are on, the business is doing well. Um, and we didn't have the KPIS. We didn't know what we didn't know. Okay. Um, you know, there came a point with within Nexstar when I got very honest, um, I was also really young when I came into the business. I was 23 years old and I became sort of the boss of these guys who were twice my age. So while I hate the term, fake it till you make it, I think I was doing a little bit of that. So yeah. You really didn't have the confidence and I'll say that in a respectful way. Well, I would say I was overconfident and things that I didn't know anything about. Okay. Yeah. All right. Yeah. I, I really, um, I thought that I had to throw my weight around. I thought I, that I had to show, well of course I know that. And the second that I got honest with myself and said, I don't know that and it's okay to tell people that I don't know that that's when the learning began. Oh, very cool. What year was that? Uh, well, uh, if I'm probably about three, five years ago, probably about 2013. Yeah. That's when you started to, to strip away the veneer of, of a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And then a couple of years later, um, I had, uh, my intentions known that I wanted to be a give back to the next or help out a little bit. Can I talk about that for please? Great. So, um, three, four years ago, maybe five, six years ago, you know, there was definitely some concern from a lot of our members that we weren't fully addressing the need, so electricians, right. And, uh, or smaller members, you know, that a lot of our stuff is pointed toward people with management teams and bigger, bigger cities maybe or, or the other trades, et cetera. And we were listening to that. And, uh, and you are part of that, part of those voices that were, that were listening to. And um, one of the things that, that, that you, so we, we every year our board of directors, uh, we put a call out for directors where we actually are required to notify our shareholders of Nexstar that there's openings on the board. And if anyone has interest to please raise your hand and a young rob car, this was, I'm going to guess this would've been maybe in 15, 15, 15 is that right? Um, you not only said I was interested, you got a bunch of, I remember like a referral letters from other members. Remember that? I do remember there were great. Right. There's nothing wrong friends of mine yet. Right. So you had, you had said, you know, I want to be on the next star board and I think I can provide a unique perspective, electrician and a small company and my communication background, I'm big on technology. I really enjoy that aspect of it. And I saw places where a nexstar could grow with this communication. Right, right. Very, very fair. So, um, you had, you had expressed some interest and at the time you'd expressed it, um, there was some other people that, that are nominating committee thought were ready and Q and been talked too long before you raise your hand. And so we said, how about next year, rob? Yep. So the next year came and you got the call, which was rob, you know, would you like us to nominate you now for the next star board of directors? And how did that feel when you got that call? Amazing. You're ready for amazing. It was like, wow, the validation of such of an organization and I feel so strongly about and thinks so highly of, to think that way about me was phenomenal. Well, we agreed, you know, particularly at that time that, that, that electrical voice, that smaller contractor voice, you know, and you know, you had, you had real sincerity in this, right? And we thought it was coming from a good place and it was, what am I saying? I think it was, it was. So, um, we have a requirement, you know, there's certain minimum requirements that these aren't things that are made up. They're actually right in our bylaws. These are the minimum requirements of a shareholder. They have to sign a noncompete, et Cetera, et cetera. And, but there's also some other requirements. So tell me, tell us what you did. So, uh, we got them pretty far along in the process and a, as a final formality, uh, it was, hey, US silver, your balance statement and your p and l just we can get a look at and made sure things were on the up and up. And then, uh, the sort of the whole process came crashing down. Um, and somewhat of my perspective on business came crashing down at the same time. Honestly, I was told that, you know, in a really nice way, but it really lovely person on the board. Um, Arnie, Arnie Shah. Yeah, I love that guy. Wonderful Guy. Any good. And uh, he just gave me the nicest phone call and said, rob, I'm really sorry that we got to this point without checking this information. I think you just need to work a little harder on your business. And he was really loving in the way that he said that. And it was a, it was, it was a blows. It was tough. It was really tough to hear. Um, I might've thrown around a few choice words, Arnie. No, no, no, no, no. Absolutely not. All of our, yeah, I wouldn't even think about it. Um, but you know, after the call, you know, I went into a little bit of a funk. I was a little disappointed, was a validation

Speaker 2: 14:52

that I've been looking for that I'd received and then got

Speaker 1: 14:54

grass away from me very quickly. So just for the folks who don't know, and this is some of the, the forward thinking, it's a frank, not to prevent you from being on the board, but, but years ago when we were the very first starting next star, which is called contractors 2000 Frank said, I want board of directors that run solid businesses. I don't want people on our board leading this organization unless they have a proven track record of being a successful business owner themselves. So the two measurements that we put in place that he requested was simply that your current ratio can't be worse than one to one. I mean, you have to have at least$1 of current assets to$1 of liabilities and your debt equity can't exceed three to one. And so we respect everyone's privacy. So I'm the person that gets this information from prospective board members. I vet it, and then I go to the board and say, hey, we're good or not. So I got yours. And it didn't even occur to me and I looked at it and go, oh no, what do I do? What do I do? Is this right? Then I remember, I call it, I call you up, or maybe I just talked to Ernie about, this is what I did. I said, Ernie, I got an issue here. And so, uh, that's, so that's, it wasn't some backend rule we put in place to avoid anybody. This was in place since 1992 1993. Right. So you got this, you, you were, you were denied the board of directors. And what did that cause you to think about yourself?

Speaker 2: 16:21

It was tough. It was a really difficult time. Um, I may have not had the best feelings towards you and next star for a short period of time. I apologize about that. All right. Uh, but, uh, uh, you know, to your credit, you were right and a thousand ways you were right. Um, and it was a hard, it was a hard thing to take.[inaudible] we run small businesses and sometimes we are blind to the realities of the situation. Okay. Again, the lights are on, everything's going well. I'm doing my job, I'm a business owner. Right. Um, and it was a tough thing to hear, a tough thing to take in and this, that's pretty cool. I didn't know you got mad at us, but did, yeah, I did it very quietly not to my wife. My wife heard it, but very quietly, I still, I still respected the organization so much. Um, and I remember calling my coach Jamie Robinson and a, I love Jamie. He's amazing by the way. He talks funny but good dude. He does. Yeah. Hey brother. Yeah, so, uh, I called him, I said, Jamie, do I even belong here? I said, tell me the truth. I mean, I've just gotten this blue. I've just been told some real honest feedback that I've never gotten before and I feel like I'm just an imposter here in next star. Oh, wow. And uh, I'll never forget his words. He said to me, rob, if you're not here, then what are you doing? He said, we have the tools. We have the ability to make this right to get you on the right path. If you leave us now, where are you going to be? And he was a thousand percent correct. So after my moping had ended, I said, just so cool. I said, uh, we all deserved a mope by. Well, in hindsight it was what it was. Um, and then I said, all right, forget this time to fix things. And uh, I got ahold of Shame Rau, who was the new accounting coach at that time, right? Love Shane. And I said, Shane, here's what it is. I laid on the table. I said, I got problems. Okay, this isn't right. My numbers are wrong. If you even remember the, the paperwork I had sent you when I was looking for the board didn't even include a whole other debt that I had. I mean, it was really, we were really wrong. Oh really? Oh yeah. Well, worse than I thought. We had a line of credit on there. And you're like, well, where's this? And like, oh, I track that somewhere else. And like in typing, and I said to myself, what am I saying? This is, this is just wrong. I've got this awesome software and quick quickbooks. I should be using it the right way. So the chain, here's my numbers, be honest with me, tell me what I have to do. And we worked for a good year and a half. I'm just checking in with them every few months and saying, hey, here's the newest p and, l, what do you think it would have this set setup? Right. Um, balancing, is it everything here is, am I missing anything or do these numbers now properly reflect, so what I'm doing the PPC, am I actually comparing apples to apples? Right. Right. So that was a, that was a big, huge step for us. So I thank you for that. Honestly, that was a, an important lesson that I had to learn. I think that was 2016 if I remember right, right at the end of middle of 2016 is when you would have got the gut. It should go check. Yeah. Punch, I'll call it. That's okay. That's okay. No, I mean without it I wouldn't be where I am right now. So I, I really do think about it a lot differently now. Um, if next are, you know, can do one thing. It's, it's putting a mirror to your face. And that allowed us to see what we really had to do cause otherwise I'm, I'm living life with rose colored glasses. Things are great. Why would I change anything that is the beauty of, of an organization like next door is it you get this, I call it a point of comparison cause so, so many of us just operate in our own ecosystem. You know, we're comparing yourself against herself or comparing us maybe to somebody down the street, some, you know, what buddy of ours or something. And the great thing about nextdoor is, is your, you know, we've got like contractors to come together and you can see somebody that's doing something so extraordinary and it's just like wow, that is so cool. It is cool. And you also get the difference between them. You know, some of those guys are doing so well that it was so far off that I couldn't quite see the forest for the trees. It was, it wasn't relatable a little bit. Yeah. So I then started spending the time finding other companies like myself, of which there were a lot anybody within a three. Well, I'm actually five hour drive. I went and visited. Oh really? Oh yeah. I started calling her. I said, let me come in and let's, let's talk real bluntly. Um, I've got some great friends who are some of the guys you've visited a lot in Lockwood out in Rochester and they're crushing it. These days are awesome. Um, uh, Bill and Debbie, let's over in 10, three in Philly, I visit the Rangers and New Jersey. Um, miles. Yeah, I'm happy to do that. That, that, that to me is the

Speaker 1: 20:47

greatest part about this organization is that we can speak freely without fear of competition, without fear of someone getting one on you. I mean, it was really fantastic and we'd start doing region meetings in Boston and I'd see you there. Love those. Go to those things that come up times and that you'd make the trek over from New York to Massachusetts. And uh, and I see at these events to right. Any event that I can go to. Yeah. I mean, to me the regional meetings are one of the best values you guys put out. Thank you. No charge to attend their local, well, I'm a figured you'd like that. I think that's my favorite call your electrician right now. Exactly. Uh, and it gets us in closer with our local, um, you know, members, um, you know, Brian crannies always something that that guy stands up and pontificates and you just sit back and listen. You know what I mean? He's amazing. Yeah. I love, I love all those guys in that group. Um, and rodenhiser hazard for hosting us and all that. I couldn't be more pleased that they let us in and show us what they show us. It's phenomenal. It is awesome. It is fun. All right, so let's talk about, um, that, that kind of the white glove across the face that you got when he couldn't come into the board of directors. And so you, you got real and you started working with, uh, with Shane to get your numbers right. Shane. Jamie, let's talk about the operational things that you did. What are some of the things that, cause you, you had a nice year, you know, you had this 40 year business that was between six and a half, six, six,$650,000 in$1 million for a lot of years. And then now you've had this nice little bounce yeah. With a profitable bounce. Right. What are some of the key things that that caused that to happen? And I get you, you can speak either operationally, you can speak mindset, you can speak, whatever, whatever it is. I'll just open the question. Not What is it, rob? So we, you know, we had moderate growth in those earlier years from that six 50 to a million, which was a long, long trek. It really was. Um, we were just shy of 10% growth each year. So we thought we were doing things right. And it wasn't until I really saw what our potential was that I could sort of make it happen. Okay. And it was really a change of mindset of my own. Um, the biggest thing was the training. Um, every single one of my staff members went through training in 2017. Every single one of my staff members went through training in 2018. Again, we're a small company, a little bit easier for us to do. Right. But it was not an inexpensive, nope, no, no. That's a big investment for a million dollar company. Yeah. But I don't see it that way any longer. I saw it. I saw, I mean, that was one of those, those building blocks in our way that, you know, if I spend this money that I'm out that money, we've lost some production. I'm just hurting myself. But I can't say that we haven't gotten every penny back of our training very, very quickly in every single way, shape and form and having the team together on the same ideas as huge. All right. So, so really when you say training and they went to a lot of the next, our classes and stuff like that, so just saying right, for their particular position. Yeah. And to take a step back. I had started going to the general meetings about five,

Speaker 2: 23:46

six years ago from that super meetings and they'll say, yes, capstone was Indianapolis with Emmitt Smith. Sure. Yeah. I've got a great picture of pointed at me like that boy. Um, and I decided that that meant he had his little penance. Do you remember those? You gave up a little penance. I will. And I still have it in my office and mine was, I will recommit to next star cause we had been members at that point for 10 years and thought we were next door company. And I was really coming to grips with the idea that we weren't taking on the ideals of Nexstar. You were just a member in name only. Yeah. Without a doubt. Without a doubt. So being at those meetings introduced me to the right people. Okay. So that's where he started to meet these connections without a doubt. Yeah. Yeah. And um, you know, there's some heavy hitters in that group. You know, there's some people who are really just amazing to, to sit and listen to some other people who like me were sort of in the corner. Just sort of feeling it out and seeing how do I get my foot in here? How do I make this happen? And I found other people just like me. How'd you, how'd you find them? Well, would you do for us? The biggest one was at the meetings. It was just sort of being there. I know what I mean. It's, it's don't be in your hotel room. Make sure you're out at night. I'm not a big drinker, but I was always out in the bar at night just listening and talking to people. Um, there's way more to be learned in just the eight hours a day that you guys are putting on the show. There's, there's just, I've never gone to a next door anything and not gotten something to bring back home. Yeah. So, um, I found a lot of friends that way. Also at the, at one of the board regional meetings, mark Presgrave. I love that guy, but he's in the fine. We gave him a hard time, uh, myself and Bill Lutz one day. Just give them a hard time about the electrical, about the, the website and all these things and we just sorta of next door wasn't doing right. Yeah. Yeah. Again, we think we know everything, but yeah. So we test it was a simple sleep, well, why don't you just do this and get this thing is going. And then from that meeting be got the Facebook groups and from the Facebook groups we have the electric, the Ph CE and the service titan. Um, there are about four or five of us who started these groups. Um, some of my closest friends in Nexstar and what we found was we were enough of a base to just keep bringing people in. I think the service tank group has about 500 members. The PHC 300 electric has about 200 right now. So if we ever had a question besides going to the m two m on the website, we had the ability to get an answer a little bit faster and a kind of a continuing dialogue to happen in a place that a lot of people were already on Facebook. Right, right. So I made a lot of friends through there that those forums. Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah. I consider if I throw a question out there within 24 hours, I'm going to get some answers back from some really impressive people, you know, um, uh, Jamie diamond, Florida. He Dominico thank you. Yeah, he's a, he's just a real awesome, awesome guy. I love the way he runs his company. He's really smart and has really great feedback that you could have served with him on the board. I know. I miss my next time. That's too,

Speaker 1: 26:44

that's too easy. Ride. It's low hanging fruit. Sorry. Um, but yeah, no, there was no question too small. Um, if I remember the old email message board, listserv Listserv, that was something else, that thing, um, and well, I mean that positively and negatively at the beginning. It was amazing. It was real. It was really incredible. We had, um, a just a constant conversation, you know what I mean? It just never seemed to stop. And if you had one good concept, it was like three days later we're still filling in on this thing. And then I see now with the m to m and with the Facebook is a little bit faster of a response. You can sort of get into that a little bit easier and sort of get more feedback a little bit quicker. So it was really, um, that was a big part of where I, so this is, we're talking about what's happened here to you and part of it is just, you know, starting to get people trained, starting to come to these events, making some good connections, creating some additional communication vehicles that you can continue to, to reach out and not be so insulated, you know, and obviously get quick questions answered, be a little more transparent of, of, you know, hey man, I got a lot to learn. Everybody does, right? We all have a lot to learn. What else? What else was kind of important in this 30% growth and getting to a 10% net profitability and, and getting a company that's now got a positive current ratio. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Money is a beautiful thing. Yeah. I never realized how much easier it was to have the money in the funds to pay the bills, isn't it? You know what's true though, right. What I've seen is that sometimes you get used to, I want to call it, not dysfunction, that's a too strong of a word, but you get used to live in that way without a doubt. You know, you get used to push and vendors out 90 days and, and you know, whatever you do to, to, to make payroll and all in it's, it's like that becomes, I don't want to say it's normal, but it kind of becomes normal. It became our normal, definitely without a doubt. Yeah. To not see the funds and well, I've got enough to make payroll. I'm, I'm good for this week. We'll worry about that again next week if there was no plan. There was no longterm planning. There was, there was no real, um, nothing really steering the ship other than, than the day to day operation just to, just to make it feel better. I, you're not the first person that I've seen and I've, and I've lived in where my own, uh, less than as a leader becomes kind of what I'm used to. And then it, and it's, and you don't think it's even weird or different until someone can say, why aren't you doing it that way, Jack? And then you go, ah, that's really dysfunctional either how I was, how I was thinking what I was doing, I was treating somebody. It's just not unusual. Right. And I love the, the, the, what you didn't do is, is what you did at short for a period of time as you attack the Messenger for a short period of time, very short period of time, privately, privately, and it wasn't public at all. But then you, then you, you know, they say you, instead of looking out the window, it was wrong. You looked in the mirror and said, what do I need to do? Is that what you did?

Speaker 2: 29:47

Yeah, that's a great way to put it. Yeah. And um, the honesty aspect comes into it because you're in the room with these heavy hitters and you want to be one of the gang, um, at one of the regional milar rob. Thank you. Don't want a gang. One of the regional meetings are, I'll never forget, I told the group, you know, just, we went around the room, set up and said hello and introduced ourselves and I said, uh, you know, for the first time ever we're going to cross$1 million. And the whole room stood up and applauded. I mean, it was really, it was just one of those situations where I came to them saying, here I am, as I stand today and we're trying our best and this is, we finally hit this milestone and the feedback that I got, everyone, I remembered that moment for themselves. They said, you know, you're doing it right. Good. Keep pushing. Don't stop where you are now. That's, that's, that's your first goal. And now we're going to keep pushing forward it, we're going to do better. And I, I just, I'm really appreciative to those people because they help validate the work that we were doing. Right. Cause at that point we were, we weren't doing some of the right thing.

Speaker 1: 30:43

You were not annotate, rob. I've been, you know, from the first person here at nextdoor. And I remember the early days when you're small companies small and you know, today, next door I was very different. And it is harder to do what you are doing than to do what I'm doing at a bigger company. Meaning it's no small thing. You know, some patients that they come on, what's wrong with me? I hardly get to, you know, how many contractors start and never get to$1 million. You know, how many tens of thousands of people are out there that never ever, ever get to what Mel car was before they joined Nexstar and never ever get to$1 million afterwards. And then of course you look at next or I say, what's wrong with me? Nothing. Right? That's just the way it is. And, and I, you know, I, I tell people all the time, you know, we've got 56 employees and talking about next nexstar now this job was a whole lot harder when we were in our first year in her second year. You know, in our third year, it took us six years to get to a couple of million dollars in sales and every year we're growing more than that. Now. That makes sense. It's just, it's just so much easier. Absolutely. Does also every, no, that's coming is what I'm saying to go ahead. You've had, you've, I think you've done the hard work. It's not, it's never easy, right? It's never downhill. No. Right. But I think it's steeper. I think the climb is a little steeper

Speaker 2: 32:06

and what you did, well, I'm, I'm, I'm interested in, in that next step, I'm an interest in what's going to happen on those next levels. What do you think's going to happen? We're going to keep pushing forward. Um, you know, as an electrical company in my, my father ran it as almost a one man shop. You one person in the office doing everything, a couple of guys out in the field. And I internalize that for a long time. And um, now as we're growing, there are things that are becoming a lot easier. My wife came on board, which is a godsend. Thank you. I love you Rachel. Thank you. I'm sorry for the shadow. That's no all good. I'm so sorry, Rachel. That's all awesome. Thank you. Um, you know, there's more, I'm not required to have my hand in everything. I don't remember if it was your book or a podcast you did, I think with Marla, one of your first employees. Yeah. Where you said you had to check your ego at the door, you know, beforehand maybe Marla saying, maybe I apologize. Remember, maybe I'm putting words in your mouth that bundles, but it was a, it was that ring true to me as a matter of, you know, not everything has to come through me. I don't need to have my hand in everything. If anything that's pulling me back a little bit and to focus from making the business right to making my people right was a big difference for us. Okay. Getting the right people to help me as opposed to just work for me. Very good. That's a great mindset. It was. It was, it was a big change for us. It really was. Um, and I didn't realize what it was like to have to train people and I'm getting better at it, but it's still something that I'm growing it. I'm reading a lot of leadership books. I now have a training manager who was working with, he's been with me for 15 years, um, and I made it my training manager and he and I are sort of working through some, some leadership books and trying to pass along, you know what I mean? Or what it really is. It really is done. Yeah. I never, I never expected that to be part of the job. Tell you the truth. I thought you bring people in and they do their thing, but it's, it's, it's growing people and making them, you know, better than, than they were the day before and helping them is phenomenal. That's so cool. So you actually work on that consciously, very conscious leadership development with your team. It's been very new though. It's been, it's been a new concept for us because we only only since recently have had the ability to do that. Um, but it's one of those things where I want everyone to grow. I want everyone to do well. Um, if my guys are growing and doing better, the company pretty much automatically does as well. So if I can get the right people in the right position, and that was another hard thing, was the right person in the right position. I brought people in and they stayed with me for literally over a decade. I mean, multiple guys, that's like when you get the right person, they come in and they just stay. They parked in there and they're one of us. And that made for a situation where we had some of the wrong people in the wrong positions. Um, and even though we really liked those people, we had to make the moves to get the right people into those spots. And that's really new for us. I know it's really important. It was a hard thing to, to come to grips on. My most recent one was really difficult. I was all over the message boards. I spent a good 45 minutes out in the Hollywood, Daniel Good over a national, just talking things back and forth about how I, you know, make the right decision with something that I knew needed to happen, even though I knew deep down what I had to do. Um, you know, letting go of someone that you really like, it can be really hard, but if it's for the betterment of the company, it's, it's necessary. That's tough. Fine. Yeah. Yeah, it was, it's a lesson I'm still sort of coming to grips with. I never get used to it, but I get it. Right. This is really, this is serious.

Speaker 1: 35:38

I mean, high level business stuff you're talking about. I mean, I'm not going to say I'm surprised, but no, I mean leadership development, you know, not just, you know, viewing the growth of people as a way to grow the business. Right. You know, and really owning that and, and, and enjoying that, um, important mindset shift that I'm hearing you talk about in a big,

Speaker 2: 36:02

that came from those meetings and the next star meetings and sitting and listening to John Maxwell sit on a chair for four hours and I just couldn't be more fixed on every word that he said. That was one of the most amazing things that I've ever sat through. It wasn't that special. It's on our website right now. You can listen to it. Watch it again. You know, it wasn't for you. That works for everybody else. I missed it. You didn't, it's amazing. And he, just, the stream of consciousness of that guy, um, if you remember was talking about how can we, uh, pays his kids to read books? Yeah, I'm all about that. Now that, that's the next step it with my boys actually there they're real little. My kids are six and nine. Um, but we're starting to get into a little bit of that, a little bit of goal setting and just doing things right. We, we have our homework, we work on together every night, but you know, I want them in the right mindset so that when they leave school, they're going to have a good mind for business. You know, my kids are a big part of our business also because we're such a small company, they can't not be, you know, they come to the company and stuff and they hang out regularly, but, but there's many times where we do, we sponsor a five k every year and a, there are big parts of that. They're in my office blowing up balloons and cutting streamers and doing all that stuff. Um, they love, love, love the business, which is really interesting. I can understand that as a son of a, of, of someone who own their own company that you love it as a kid like that. Uh, not like they do, but yeah, I did. I had an appreciation for that. I don't think many people get to understand unless you've actually had it. You know, at eight years old, I'm picking up the phone in my own house and taking service calls, you know, high are electric and uh, and it was just a situation where it becomes part of you. So I, you know, I, someone once told me that, that they, uh, it was one of my, I love and respect who I worked with. She said, you know, I'm not worried about you and whatever field you choose because you have a good mindset to go out and accomplish it. And that unless it was cell phones, unless those damn cell phones, man, I'm telling you, and a, and that, sorry. No, it's fine. But that's, I'm, I'm glad that that didn't go well. Honestly. It's a beautiful thing and that, you know, having those skills are something that aren't taught. It's not taught in school. It's not something that you're going to get unless you really take the time and putting the effort or you have someone like my father who could pass that down to me. I mean, that was really something.

Speaker 1: 38:13

It sounds, you know, that you had a great foundation. Oh, without a doubt that your dad's business was solid and your experience was great and you've got our appreciation now for the, the kind of the hard work that it takes a sacrifice, a sacrifice

Speaker 2: 38:30

more him than me. I was looking at it, there were winters where I'd see the despair occasion, like, you know, there's a

Speaker 1: 38:35

tough winter. I don't, you know, who I'm not sure how things are going to play out. And that was a scary thought. You know, the, the, you know, he, he, he was out there living, breathing and dying by this thing and um, and it just wasn't giving back the way that it should have in my opinion. Right. So it's, it's really nice to be able to do this. Um, and to show my father what I could do. Well, so, you know, the first generation creates second generation grows. I won't tell you what the third generation does it, the thinking on that one, you know, the third generation ruins it is what people say. That's the rumor. But not my, if you third generation people, not there, I've seen a lot of first and third, second generations ruin it too. So don't, don't listen to that. Absolutely. Yes. Right. Absolutely. It doesn't have to be that way. You're right. He, he laid a foundation for an incredible company as I came in and the people that I met here who knew him. Oh, how's your dad? Hello? Absolutely. Yeah. He's just the best. I love him. He, uh, he's, he's struggling with Parkinson's right now. Okay. Our last few years together were a little tough, um, just just as far as physically, cognitively. Um, but um, you know, he's down in Florida now, uh, seven months out of the year. He says he's still doesn't live down there, but I still say lives at the majority of the time. And um, and we're just trying to do right by him and trying to make the company even even better than what he made of it, which was something special about itself. Sounds like you are well done, man. Well, it's a great journey. It's a great story. I appreciate you sharing. Yeah, I really do. I really, I thank you very much for what you've done for next are also, I loved, loved, loved your book. I'm not a reader. I have it on audible. I've read it three or four times. We would listen to it three or four times. Um, because, and again, I don't want you to think I'm kissing up here by any means. It was something that spoke to me very specifically. Oh, good. Where I've read a lot of other management books and things like that, but there was nothing that was so specific to our industry and on every single level just clicked. Oh, good to hear. So I thank you for that. That was, that was, you know, in, in positive and negative ways. You've affected my business a lot of ways. Well, I know, I know, and I don't mean that I hear you. Thank you. I appreciate you. It what you're doing here and, and to your next door is all about, man. This is, you know, um, the, the very genesis of Nexstar, um, frank plows, first vision was to take the world's best mechanics and tournament them, the world's best businessmen. And women and male car is a perfect example of a great technician, solid owner. And you know, now the, the knowledge that he gained that you gained and now you're starting to really multiply what you're doing there in a big way. Really changing people's lives, helping people, I should say we don't, you don't do that, but you're equipping them to make dramatic changes. You know, investing in folks to two guys here in a small company, three people in a small company here in Saint Paul for three days. There's no small investment. No, even if you're doing a lot more than you, that's a big commitment and it's a real big commitment. It's worth every penny for you, but the time it's to be in, I see your folks who are engaged, you're meeting people they'd never would have met. This is a big of their career development. You know, so few electricians get invested in like you're investing in, in your folks, which is just great. You know, so well done. I'm thrilled that though, that we have this resource on a sleep. Well, we're fortunate to be here. We all are. I feel that way. So, and I'm fortunate that you folks who are listening in to, we sure appreciate you listening to this really awesome story from rob about his journey here. And, uh, thank you. Thank you for having me, Jack reacher, right. And we all thank you again for listening to this latest episode of Leadership Lounge show. We look forward to a lot more of these and thanks so much. We'll catch you next time.