Join us in a deeper exploration as amazing New Mexico Estate Planning lawyer Stephanie Woods and I delve into the convoluted legalities surrounding the true story of Michael Oher, whose life journey inspired the Hollywood blockbuster, 'The Blind Side.' In this episode, we critically examine the peculiar conservatorship held by the Tuohys - his guardians, and the baffling circumstances surrounding his supposed "adoption." Recent developments have emerged post our recording, shedding more light on this complex tale.
The narrative takes a new turn as a Tennessee judge recently announced the termination of the conservatorship agreement between Michael Oher and the Memphis couple who had taken him in during his high school years. While this decision marks the end of the conservatorship established in 2004, it opens a Pandora's box of financial disputes which continue to linger. The heart of the matter lies in Oher's claims that the Tuohys had misrepresented the conservatorship as an adoption, leading him to believe in a familial bond that legally, never existed. Further, he alleges that this misrepresentation allowed the Tuohys to control his finances, using his name, image, and likeness for their enrichment.
Listen in as we navigate through the legal intricacies of conservatorships, adult adoptions, and the significant implications surrounding solid estate planning. Michael's case underscores the potential financial repercussions when such legal arrangements are not adequately addressed or understood. Despite the termination of the conservatorship, Michael's fight for a thorough accounting and rightful compensation of the finances earned off his name and story forges on, unraveling more questions on the ethical and legal aspects of conservatorships and adult adoptions.
Join us in a deeper exploration as amazing New Mexico Estate Planning lawyer Stephanie Woods and I delve into the convoluted legalities surrounding the true story of Michael Oher, whose life journey inspired the Hollywood blockbuster, 'The Blind Side.' In this episode, we critically examine the peculiar conservatorship held by the Tuohys - his guardians, and the baffling circumstances surrounding his supposed "adoption." Recent developments have emerged post our recording, shedding more light on this complex tale.
The narrative takes a new turn as a Tennessee judge recently announced the termination of the conservatorship agreement between Michael Oher and the Memphis couple who had taken him in during his high school years. While this decision marks the end of the conservatorship established in 2004, it opens a Pandora's box of financial disputes which continue to linger. The heart of the matter lies in Oher's claims that the Tuohys had misrepresented the conservatorship as an adoption, leading him to believe in a familial bond that legally, never existed. Further, he alleges that this misrepresentation allowed the Tuohys to control his finances, using his name, image, and likeness for their enrichment.
Listen in as we navigate through the legal intricacies of conservatorships, adult adoptions, and the significant implications surrounding solid estate planning. Michael's case underscores the potential financial repercussions when such legal arrangements are not adequately addressed or understood. Despite the termination of the conservatorship, Michael's fight for a thorough accounting and rightful compensation of the finances earned off his name and story forges on, unraveling more questions on the ethical and legal aspects of conservatorships and adult adoptions.
Bob:
Today's guest on the show is Stephanie Woods. Stephanie and I have a lot in common. We both practice in the area of probate and trust. I focus my practice on the evil side the probate and trust litigation while Stephanie is on the good side, where the good guys are the all the planning side of probate and trust. But we're both also fascinated about the story of Michael Orr.
Bob:
As a reminder, michael Orr is the lead person or the lead character in the story, the blind side. He became a professional football player and he was led to believe in the story that he's adopted by the family, the twoies, and he has a fascinating backstory because he was born of negligent and abusive parents and in 1996, at the age of 10, he becomes a ward of the state and he's living on the streets. He is at different times, he's in foster homes at different times. He eventually gets the scholarship to a private school and that's how he gets introduced to the twoies at this private school. And when he becomes 18, the twoies who had had him over from time to time at their house make him an offer come live with us and we'll let you keep going to school at this private school and you could just live in our house and, like I said at that point, we're led to believe that he becomes adopted by the twoies. He goes on to play football. We know that's true and that everyone lived happily ever after.
Bob:
That's right. I got that right. Right, stephanie.
Stephanie:
That's what we're led to believe and that's what the movie makes you believe. But as anybody who's paid any attention to popular news right now, that's not the case and, as an attorney, as things are coming out in the news, it just doesn't make any sense. None of it makes sense to me from the legal perspective.
Bob:
No, it doesn't make sense to me either. And when I first heard the story, I was sent down to the producer right after the story came out, the producer of the show, the fabulous Paul Ward. And we're like I said to Paul. This makes no sense. And why doesn't it make sense to you? What sort of struck your imagination?
Stephanie:
Well, the first thing is that he is saying that he was led to believe that he was adopted, and yet the court paperwork clearly says that he's under conservatorship. Don't know how many of our listeners have followed the conservatorship world, but there's been a lot of movement in that world over the last couple of years, with the free Brittany movement right, and so a conservatorship is a entirely different thing than an adoption, and so that was the first thing. It was like why in the world would you do a conservatorship? But the individual who was under the conservatorship thinks they're being adopted into the family.
Bob:
Right. That was weird to me too, and when the story first came out. I should add that the story is he claims he was duped into believing he had been adopted and he claims that the twoies took his money from the blindside, that he was supposed to get more than he got from the blindside movie and that they ate up all his money. And that's where the conservatorship is so troubling, Because a conservatorship in my state and I think in your state, is to manage a person's money, a person who's not competent, someone who has a super low IQ, someone who has special needs and is immensely deficient, someone who is elderly and is mentally deficient. That's what a conservatorship is about. And so the thought that this would become, that he would be subject to a conservatorship when he graduated from high school, had a successful career, finished college or at least went to college. That guy doesn't need a conservatorship.
Stephanie:
Right, it makes no sense. And in my state so I'm in New Mexico, as you know, and you're right, it's for the conservatorship, it's for the management of the money, and we, actually our states, had a lot of turmoil, or new regulations and statutes have come out to make sure that the conservatorship isn't granted in unnecessary times or in unnecessary situations. And so the conservatorship here they use the phrase least restrictive means, because whenever you're under a conservatorship your rights are actually stripped away. You're a protected individual. You cannot make decisions any longer and a lot of people may I keep referencing Brittany because it was a big news item and a lot of people may realize it now, but back then there wasn't as much conversation and the general news media about what a conservatorship does and how it affects the protected individual.
Bob:
Right, and that's the thing you may need a conservatorship. If the person is a minority right, they're under the age of 18, he may need a conservatorship. But with Michael, he was over the age of 18. And I think you actually read the order. Because you're over the age of 18, you come in and the judge is going to say to the 18 year old do you want these guys to be your conservator and if so, why? And I don't know what Michael would say at that point.
Stephanie:
Yeah, and the order didn't actually say what Michael said, but the order does go into that. The judge believed that it was necessary, so the judge put the conservatorship in place. Interestingly, the judge did not make an order that Michael was incompetent, which in my state is a requirement, I think, in almost every state. I'm not licensed in Tennessee, but that's where he was located and where the order was done Tennessee. In my state that's a requirement. And then it goes on to say that the twoies are going to have full authority for the medical and educational decisions of Michael quote in the same vein as if they had been his natural parents and guardians. End quote. Why does that strike? That strikes me odd. Does that strike you odd?
Bob:
It strikes me incredibly odd, and the reason is when my kid turns 18, I have no rights to control his money, I have no rights to control his healthcare decisions. My child, he or she, can give me those rights. I mean, that's why the Stephanie Woods are around in this country. Right? What would you do instead? If you want to choose a concern, what would you do for the? You would do a power of attorney.
Stephanie:
And if you needed healthcare decisions, you would do a healthcare. In my state it's called a healthcare directive, in other states it's called a healthcare proxy or a healthcare power of attorney. But yeah, listen, bob, if, when I was 18, if my parents had tried this, all heck would have broken loose. Like there is no way my dad's going to have money in my, going to have access to my bank account. You better believe I have his credit card and I'm going to use it at 18 to buy myself Chick-fil-A if I want, but he's not going to be able to see my finances and control my finances, and so it just it blows my mind that this was done whenever he was of age.
Bob:
And the other thing that's weird is the reasoning that the two Easts gave for the whole. They recently gave reason Well, we didn't, we wanted to do the conservatorship, they said, because he needed to be quote unquote part of the family Somehow. They said NCAA would not have allowed Michael to be eligible immediately for the rebels, the football team, without the conservatorship. That doesn't make sense to me. They say, well, it's because we were the boosters, we were dean boosters of the program. Again, it doesn't make sense to me. An 18 year old can't be eligible. It makes no sense.
Stephanie:
An 18 year old isn't eligible because his non-parents are boosters.
Stephanie:
Yeah, I no one will say that I am a football expert or know much about the NCAA regulations and restrictions and all that fun stuff. But even if that was the case, let's say there was some weird regulation that said you cannot have an 18 year old living in your house and going to our school under this regulation because you're a booster without a conservatorship. I find that very weird. But let's say that's the case. Then why didn't they terminate the conservatorship after that was over?
Bob:
Right, it doesn't. Again, it doesn't make sense and, like you previously mentioned, a power of attorney would. First of all, an 18 year old is not the sharpest tool in the shed. I have two children who are 18 and older. I remember being 18, you don't know Jack at 18. You don't know anything. And the thought that he's gonna need help with healthcare issues, he's gonna need help with managing his finances and especially with the talent he had and the projectory he had, yeah, he's gonna need some extra help. And so go to your attorney and say how can we get him this extra help? And then Stephanie Wood says well, the way you get extra help is I'll get you the power of attorney and you could then act on his name and then, when he's done with you, he could just say I revoke the power of attorney.
Stephanie:
Exactly, and one of the fun things about this I say fun because I'm an attorney and it intrigues me. It's not fun to the people that are dealing with it, but one of the fun things about the power of attorney is that it's almost instantaneous. You can do it within an hour. Even less, you don't have to go to court. It doesn't involve court. In most jurisdictions, in New Mexico specifically, all you have to have is the document, the individual. So in this case, michael would need a sign in front of a notary and you're good to go. And so it doesn't make sense that they would go this far. And what I always tell my clients that come to me with these concerns.
Stephanie:
Often I have clients coming to me saying mom's doing well, but she's making some funny decisions, she's competent. I talk to mom, she's competent, but she does want some help with her bank account and paying the bills because she's forgetting to pay them, et cetera. And I tell them let's do a power of attorney. You don't need to go through the court to get a conservatorship. There's annual oversight with a conservatorship. It's an expensive process at times, especially if it's contested, and it also takes away mom's rights, and so we don't want to do that, let's do a power of attorney. The only downside to a power of attorney, in New Mexico at least, is that they can revoke it at any time, Right, yeah, that's the as long as mom is still cooperative.
Bob:
and sometimes we get into a situation where mom doesn't realize she has dementia and she's. I'm going to give a half million dollars to my boyfriend and I've seen this case, by the way I'm going to give a half million dollars to my boyfriend who lives in Africa, and when that happens you got to say, ah, and you can't do that. No, you can't tell me what to do. I revoke your power of attorney. Yeah, then you need a conservatorship, Exactly.
Bob:
Exactly that's when you go that route, and so I do have a theory about this case and I think and my theory is that this was just bad lawyering that maybe I'm being too polyanna, stephanie, I don't know but that this was bad lawyering and a bad judge, a judge who didn't quite understand the rules. I see this happen quite a bit. Probate is a very unique world, and you get a judge and the judge was a really good prosecutor or defense attorney and criminal law and then they get on the probate bench and they have to be educated about probate through the attorneys, right. And so my theory is that we had a judge who wasn't super educated on the subject and then we had an attorney who, frankly, just didn't understand either, you know, and we end up with a bad legal product. Tell me I'm wrong or tell me I'm right. What do you think?
Stephanie:
I'm gonna give you the attorney answer, which is maybe Right. I just don't. My concern about it being just bad legal advice and a bad judge and lack of education is that it still doesn't sit well with me.
Bob:
Sure.
Stephanie:
Because the reasonings behind it don't make sense still.
Bob:
But let me argue back at you because I agree it doesn't make sense and it's bad Lawyering from the beginning and I think it was bad for the two Esos. Bad for Michael is the attorney was a close personal friend of the family and so much so that Michael referred to the attorney as aunt, so-and-so or whoever read her name was, and perhaps she's trying to do a solid for the family and she just doesn't know.
Stephanie:
Why wouldn't she then explain to Michael that this isn't an adult adoption? Why did Michael think for decades that he was adopted that? I think that's the biggest red flag to me, that this isn't just bad lawyering. I can't say definitively what it is and I want to believe that everybody had the best intentions at heart, but at some point someone dropped the ball with the explanation and Michael wasn't incompetent. It's not that they were dealing with someone who had a fifth grade level mindset or mental capacity and couldn't really comprehend. Additionally, if the two Esos say that this was the only way, I mean I've read reports that said that they thought that this was. They told Michael specifically that they had to go this route because he was an adult. Now, yeah.
Stephanie:
Let me ask you this how hard are adult adoptions?
Bob:
They're super easy. I mean, you could just get them. You just fill out the paperwork, you show up in court and the you know it's actually a quite. It's actually a beautiful thing. When you've seen it done it's a beautiful thing the kid works to. You know the kid. This has always been raised by stepdad or stepmom and they've had nothing to do with the, no account, you know, by a dad or mom and they show up in court and the family hogs afterwards they're grinning ear to ear. We love you so much.
Stephanie:
Oh, it's lovely. Now I will, and it's so easy.
Bob:
Yes, yes.
Stephanie:
Much easier than a conservatorship.
Bob:
I will say I am a foster parent for a nephew and I and he is he's, I am his permanent guardian. I did not adopt him and that was conscious decision. I think there's and I could see this happening here too and the reason is, you know, when my nephew, if my nephew, were to become my child legally, he would lose a ton of benefits Because when he graduates, first of all, when he turns 18 and graduates, he's entitled to a stipend from the state to help him get on his feet. He's entitled to-.
Stephanie:
Because you're a foster parent, right? Not because he's your kid.
Bob:
Because he's not legally my child, he's a ward of the state. He's entitled to a scholarship of a certain amount that would get him through any of the community colleges and halfway and half of the state the larger state schools. He's entitled to healthcare till he turns 21. If he is in need of healthcare and there's several other benefits too, that end up coming along because you are a ward of the state Now I know that sounds a bit mercenary, but he is you know he will need the help when he turns 18 if he wants to be independent and if he wants to be independent of me and my wife, and that would be his choice. And so I could see the two E's saying okay, how do we preserve the benefits? I don't know if this is really the case, but I could see this happening where he says how do we preserve the benefit for Michael and, you know, remain involved to help him.
Stephanie:
And the attorney, and so that plays really well with the theory of bad lawyering, right? The attorney says, oh, this is the way to go, and maybe that's exactly what happened. I still struggle with the communication to the individual, and this is something I do a lot with my clients. I don't know. I would love to know the percentage of your clients that come in, and one of the reasons they're in your office is that something was a surprise after death, right?
Bob:
I tell my clients.
Stephanie:
Exactly. I tell my clients over and over do not make anything a surprise. Communication is key and I'm an over communicator. I don't know if you've realized that about me, Bob, but I communicate about everything. I'm an open book and so that's what I want my clients to be, because it prevents so many issues. And if that was the case, if the two E's made that decision consciously to assist Michael with his benefits and the ability to qualify for these things, that's awesome. Have the conversation.
Bob:
Have the conversation Right, because he's left saying I thought I was a member of your family. That would be the ultimate betrayal feeling that way Can you imagine oh? Yeah, yeah, and again, a bad lawyer, and I can't imagine that everything they were seeking to do could have been accomplished through a power of attorney. I mean, I'm a booster. Would you consider my nonchild to be at your program? Come on, sure, we'll consider your nonchild to be at our program, your program.
Stephanie:
Right. And then it makes me think, because I don't know anything about the NCAA regulations. It makes me think what were they trying to get around? Was there something else? Was this a cover-up for something else that they did bad to get him into the program that?
Bob:
doesn't, I don't know, I don't know, it's just weird, it's just a. It's weird, I don't know. I think we should follow the story and do an update as the story progresses. What do you think?
Stephanie:
I would love that and I think there's a lot of things people can take away from this, even if they're not adopting or fostering or caring for someone that is in this process. The biggest thing is anytime you're looking at helping someone that needs help in the area of finances, Use the least restrictive means possible.
Bob:
Sure.
Stephanie:
Don't take them to court. If you don't need to go to court, talk to an attorney and talk to them about alternatives to court. If you're with an attorney, that's going to do something, that's going to give bad advice. If you actually ask the question are you just asking me this so you can pay for your daughter's wedding with my legal fees, or is there another option? Those are important things to ask.
Bob:
Yeah, and get a little bit of education on your own and then talk to an attorney in the area. If I'm in New Mexico, I'm not going to call Joe Schmo off the street. I'll call you Stephanie.
Stephanie:
And my goal is that my clients never have to call you Bob, even though you're not in New Mexico because I don't want them to have to get to your part of the department.
Bob:
This is a side note. We were having a will clinic. In fact you were doing the will clinic. You were from the New Mexico side and we were doing the will clinic for the people in Arizona. And someone said you never want to have to call Bob Sewell. And I was like, whoa, wait a minute, I got a kid in college. Don't do any good planning. If you don't plan, then you could come to be my client. It'll cost you four times as much, but I still would love it, because I need to send my kid to college. But I don't know, I loved having you on. Let's do it again. If someone wanted to get a hold of you, how would they do it?
Stephanie:
They could contact our New Mexico office or get on our website at wwwDavisMilescom. I'm under the attorneys in New Mexico. Our New Mexico office number is on there as well. You can also follow me on social media at NMestatePro, both on Instagram and Facebook.
Bob:
Nice, all right, thank you very much. Stephanie will talk soon, thanks.
