Penned
Episode 9: Vanessa Pt. 2
In the second part of Vanessa's interview, she speaks with Christina about the details surrounding Tyler's crime for which he received a sentence of life without parole.
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Show warning: the topics discussed in this episode contain graphic descriptions of violence. Please listen at your own discretion.
In the second part of Vanessa's interview, she speaks with Christina about the details surrounding Tyler's crime for which he received a sentence of life without parole.
***
Show warning: the topics discussed in this episode contain graphic descriptions of violence. Please listen at your own discretion.
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:as I continue to put out each episode of penned, there's this courage I've built up behind the microphone. As I bare my soul a little more. There are times when it's hard for me to approach the subject of incarceration because I'm reminded of my brother and his struggle dealing with addiction and being in and out of prison for the past eight years. What I've experienced or having a family member incarcerated has shaped my outlook of our criminal justice systems, prison humanity, how to treat others. I've garnered more empathy from this than anything else and like I said in the last episode, empathy is a double edged sword. In part one of Vanessa's story, I mentioned that I was curious to find out more about Tyler's crime. From her perspective, I wonder how someone is able to separate the crime from the person and I wanted to have a better understanding of that. Vanessa had sent me the court documents which held the details of the murder and while I'll admit, it was tough for me to read through. Vanessa was able to bear her soul to me raw and unencumbered. I noticed throughout our interview she builds her strength with every pause thinking about how to answer my questions they may be to get through. I'm Christina Hansen and this is Penn.
Speaker 3:In one of his letters, he offered to answer any questions I had about his case and of course I did not have any questions for him because this is really wasn't what our correspondence was about, but I didn't know the details and I accepted him for who he is and I wasn't going to judge him for them for what he was accused of, what he is accused of. It didn't factor into my relationship with him or my car respondents.
Speaker 2:Let's go into the details about the crime. It's public information, right, so you're able to take his name and look it up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's out there. It was a big case. Had a lot of notoriety when it happened. It was a murder that he tried to cover up and took a lot of steps to try to cover it up, get rid of all the evidence, including the body, the woman who is accused of murdering. I look at the actions that he took, those, those am a desperate man who in the heat of the moment, and I hate to use that phrase, but he did something that he knew was wrong and it was probably terrifying being caught. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Let's kind of rewind back a little bit. I'm curious. So he murdered a woman and now it was this woman, his significant other. Was this a stranger?
Speaker 3:Someone who was an acquaintance? I would say not his significant other. She was a contact drug world in that region. They went out on a date, which probably was a bit of business as well. They got high. Um, at one point he had her phone and while she was I guess high and passed out a bit and saw a text from someone or, or her, I'm not sure who is from, but essentially putting a head out on him and he panicked or was angry, probably all of those things together and killed her as though that would stop the head. I don't know. I think you just felt betrayed and I'm not really sure. Obviously I'm hitting his head, but that would probably a lot of things going on actually. He had just been with her sexually as well and he had a significant other, so maybe there was guilt, anger, I don't know. I don't know. I don't, like I said, it's not really for me to speculate. It just sounds like a very charged situation that led to a married, you know, tragic result.
Speaker 4:Now you mentioned he tried to get rid of the body. How did he go about that? I know that you said this case had a lot of notoriety. Is that something that had to do with it?
Speaker 3:I believe so. Right now I tell you, I'm just, I just know. I don't think I can say this because I'm scared, so I really, I am and it's just, I don't, I don't think I can.
Speaker 4:Okay. Sorry. I know this is a lot and obviously I don't want any fear to come out of this or you to be afraid for anything. If you need to stop, that's okay.
Speaker 3:I've just, yeah, I can't, I can't go through that. And I do. I can say that it, you know, it was a very shocking, and I don't know how I was able to separate that from the person I fell in love with that I did. And I've just, I don't know his worst moment and I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's about all I,
Speaker 4:okay. That's all right. Um, no, don't be, don't be,
Speaker 3:I know that, yeah. You wanted more, I just,
Speaker 4:I imagine the fear comes kind of different layers, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it would be kind of scary to face these truths that keep showing themselves as you're telling your story and rationalizing things that maybe you didn't realize that you are rationalizing. And I imagine that could be very scary. And not only that, but the story itself is very shocking.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think you're right. I mean, when I say I'm scared, I'm, I mean, I'm afraid of him. I know how angry he can get, but you're, I am probably more scared of saying something that's going to make me realize kind of what I did mentally to stay engaged with him. Is that what you're referring?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I[inaudible].
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I just feel like someone listening to this could probably just Google the details and then everything would come up and that scares me.
Speaker 4:That's understandable. I think my listeners, and this is from what I foresee of just from a lot of people emailing me about this, it's the way I approach these topics is I'm very sensitive to the subject matter. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm not here to exploit anybody. I'm here to help tell the story and I'd like to understand too, you know what drives people to correspond to inmates. That's a subject as you know, is near and dear to my heart because of my brother and that's how this whole thing got started was seeing the, the compassion and the, the people that have cared for him and never met him from all over the world. That's something that created this passion inside of me. So I can tell you from my listener base, you know these from what I've received, it's not people that are going and trying to uncover information and try to be judge or jury. I think a lot of them are like me. You know, they're, they're trying to just understand and educate themselves on the justice system and and inmates and what goes on within a prison because we're just starting to learn more about that as a society. I don't know if that helps any, but I know that's where I'm coming from as a perspective. It's not just sit here and an exploit anyone's case.
Speaker 3:I think what's most upsetting about the details to me more than what the news articles did is the manipulation of the people around him and I, we read that when I sent that to you and I, wow, this is not good. This is more than someone panicking. This is someone really enlisting innocent people to help them cover up a crime and people who he ostensibly loved. It was pretty hard to reread that on top of what I had told you the previous weekend. You know about Dan love the time and falling in love with him and all that. It's really hard. One of the things I did is I found a Memorial on Facebook for her and watched videos upon her to really kind of give myself a balanced perspective on things. And this person is no longer here and this person's dog no longer has her in his life and this person is gone because of fucking taxed. You know, I tried to do that as a reality check, but I always came back to like even after you and I talked last weekend, I always come back to GLP my, to me when he realizes how loyal I was and how whatever I am, I don't really know what that's about. And you know, even some being pretty crappy to me by cutting me off in such a manufactured scenario that was pretty transparent. Once I share it with um, another person, I was able to really tap into how that was complete bullshit. I don't know what it is, Christina. I just still have this feeling for him and I think that's why I needed the title of that book is there are other women like that and most of them come from abuse from newer children. And as adults as well. And they just kind of blindly love these men, particularly men who have murdered, not just men who are inmates. It's like they're finally safe with someone he's never going to get out. And the, there's something so alpha about murdering, right? And you feel like you would be protected by this person, you know? And that's how I feel. I'm safe from my father as long as I have him in my life, which is, it doesn't make any sense because he's never getting out. But still, it's, I think psychologically it just feels like, wow, I feel protected. And I'm not saying any of this is rational. I just know what psychologically could be going on. And when I read that book, there were other women who felt that, or maybe they weren't quite aware that that's what they were doing, but me reading them, that's kind of what I saw. But it's a fiction that he loved with me. So it's all based on something like, it's not real, but I've created this thing. It serves some purpose. You know, like I have someone to love and someone ostensibly loves me, but not really, but I'm okay with that. I mean it's very complicated and I'm not, I don't know if I'm shedding much light on it, but again, I don't really understand it clearly, fully myself. I just know that after you and I spoke, I was missing him. I was wanting him back in my life.
Speaker 4:You know what, it kind of reminds me of the words that you're saying to describe how you're feeling of this. I don't know why I miss him. I know that these feelings aren't necessarily wrong, but I shouldn't miss this person. You're kind of talking yourself and do it a little bit, but it reminds me of women in abusive relationships. They don't necessarily know why they go back to that person. They, you know, a lot of times go back time and time again and people always say, well, why don't they leave? Why don't you just leave? You can't really explain something like that because it's something kind of psychological. There's a psychological pole and it's very hard to describe and it's hard to understand. But that's just what you were saying earlier, reminded me a lot of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're right. You're right. And so the same words that they use, I don't know why, but I just want to, you know, I, I need to, yeah, you're right. And I guess part of that is what I was used to. And so even I don't really know. It's a just a very compelling connection to in my life and I miss it. I don't, I don't fully understand why.
Speaker 4:I think looking at it from this perspective that you're able to do, which I think I mentioned in our last interview of having that self awareness is very important and you have that on the foreground of, I, I know I'm doing this and don't necessarily know why, but it makes me feel good and I needed in my life. While you're kind of bringing those things to the surface and really thinking about them on a higher level, and I think that's important as you self-reflect and things aren't going to be solved and answered in a night or a day or a year, whatever. I think by taking the steps to be self-aware is going to be very beneficial in your life.
Speaker 3:Yes, of course it will be. I feel like I'm running out of time. Right. Let me, my age, so
Speaker 4:I appreciate you giving me as much as you have. I know this is hard, but I really do. If there's anything else you want to talk about that's totally fine, but if you hang up and you sit there and you think about anything else that you want to bring up in the podcast, we can talk about it another time. But I think I do have some really good stuff here, Annie. I appreciate your honesty and I know that I've said that in the emails, but I want you to genuinely know that. I mean that I know how hard it is to just talk about your feelings raw. It's like jumping off a cliff right to me and let me know how you're feeling and you know, if there's anything else you want to chat about, we can schedule another call or we can just talk freely without a recording too, if that would make you feel better.
Speaker 3:I think that was important for me to tell you the details and I'll tell you with them and we can decide later if it feels too scary to have public. Is that okay?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:In an attempt to get rid of the evidence, he had her body up into pieces and had one of his female friends watch the brain of the pieces and at a leak of course you can't burn. So that was bone left and um, that was taken from the Lake site. He tried to hide it. This partner's house. That's what he did. Or that's what he's accused of doing.
Speaker 4:How did he get caught?
Speaker 3:She was reported missing by her father after two or three days. And he was the last person she was seen with and her father knew that if she left from, he picked her up at his house. And so he became a suspect immediately followed him for a couple of days and interviewed him a couple of times is packing up his all his belongings. He just going to go down South. He loaded up his truck with all his things and they arrested him as he was driving out of town.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 3:At that point had had someone report finding remains a debate. So they hadn't got evidence. So it took a couple of weeks, but they found that her remains and so there's no body, there's no crime. Right. So let's say found the remains they had cause and to Western and that's where he did. They did. And then tried to escape from the County jail. This was where I started all the rationalizing, you know, being terrified of being locked up for the rest of his life. And I remember reading about it and how to share up step deities in him. All had to go to hospital afterwards. After this escape attempt. He must've been really fighting hard. He can, two men with weapons had to go to the hospital. I mean, that was so impressive. As ashamed as I am to say that. But to me I was like, God, he's so strong and he's so determined and, and he so scared to, you know, I felt that I could see a vulnerability. Their shoes, he's scared and desperate, but he's also strong. And I think I'll, you know, that combination of the vulnerable tough guy, I think that's an appealing ideal for a lot of women for some reason. And they think they can reach him and be the one who understands him and unlike anyone else. And I was going on for me that thinking I want to be the one finally gets him and who we trust. And despite the terrible things he's accused of and all evidence points to him being guilty of, it's just a wounded soul. I mean he is, regardless of whether I use, you know, that thinking is well, there's no right or wrong thinking about anything. He is wounded and he does have vulnerabilities just like anyone else. And, but there's also this other thing that happened that honestly didn't spend a whole lot of time thinking about it. Like I said on occasion, I'd look at the video her when she was alive and the pictures of our, but I didn't spend a whole lot of time on it. When I got the first letter and I saw the name and I did that, my heart broke and also Melton at the same time, which is such a dangerous combination because I wanted to take care of him and again be the one who understands him and it's pretty heavy and pretty multifaceted and I'm glad I told you actually I feel relieved. I'm surprised. I just knew when you were telling me if you think of anything, get in touch with me. I just was like, it didn't, I felt like, no, this doesn't feel right to just end it here. I needed to tell the whole story. Thank you for encouraging you to do that and also for giving me room to not do that.
Speaker 4:I'm here to be that platform and talking about things as simple as it sounds is first of all, it's very hard. Second of all, after you do it, you do feel that relief, if that helps you any in any way to sort of go through these thoughts and these feelings. You know, I'm, I'm very happy to have just listened. I appreciate your honesty. Again, I know that was hard, but I hope that that relief helps you on your journey as you move forward.
Speaker 3:Thank you. I think it will, you know, I have never really spoken of all the details. Anyone I told you, I have one friend who I confide in about my relationships with inmates. I've never spoken the words I sent her, what I sent you and never said it out loud. I think there's something to that. So thank you.
Speaker 1:[inaudible]
Speaker 2:this episode was produced by Jason Cecelia and special thanks to Matthew street for creating Pence. The music, if you or someone you know as a story to share, please send me a note@pentopodcast.com.