Freedom Focus Photography

Story Brand Your Business with Karen Bartos

• Nicole Begley, Karen Bartos

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256 - In this episode of the Freedom Focus Photography podcast, we're diving into one of the most powerful tools in business: storytelling. 

If you’ve ever struggled to connect with your clients or wondered how to make your website work harder for you, this episode is a must-listen. I’m joined by Karen Bartos, a certified StoryBrand Guide, who’s here to help us unravel the secrets of crafting a compelling business narrative.

We’ll explore how to position your clients as the heroes of their own stories, how to identify and solve their problems, and how to guide them to success using clear, actionable steps. 

Whether you’re just starting out or looking to refine your brand message, these insights could be the game-changer you’ve been looking for.

Here's what you'll learn in this episode:

Understanding the Power of Story: Discover why storytelling is crucial for connecting with potential clients and how it can transform your business messaging.

Defining Your Client's Character: Find out how to identify what your clients really want and how to position them as the hero in your business story.

Positioning Yourself as the Guide: Learn how to position yourself as the trusted guide in your client's journey, helping them achieve their goals through your services.

Highlighting Success vs. Failure: Find out how to effectively communicate the stakes—what clients gain by working with you versus what they risk losing if they don’t.

Real-Life Examples: Hear real-world applications of the StoryBrand framework, including how pet photographers can address the sensitive topic of capturing memories of pets that won’t be around forever.

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If you have a website in your business, you're going to want to listen to this episode because we are going to talk about how to story brand your business. You might have heard of story brand by Donald Miller. Well, today I have a certified story brand guide with us who is going to give us some tips on how to work this into our photography business so that we can reach more clients.

Stay tuned. I'm Nicole Begley, a zoological animal trainer turned pet and family photographer. Back in 2010, I embarked on my own adventure in photography, transforming a bootstrapping startup into a thriving six figure business by 2012. Since then, my mission has been to empower photographers like you, sharing the knowledge and strategies that have helped me help thousands of photographers build their own profitable businesses. I believe that achieving two to $3000 sales is your fastest route to six figure businesses, that any technically proficient photographer can consistently hit four figure sales.

And no matter if you want photography to be your full time passion or a part time pursuit, profitability is possible. If you're a portrait photographer aspiring to craft a business that aligns perfectly with the life you envision, then you're in exactly the right place. With over 350,000 downloads. Welcome to the Freedom Focus Photography podcast. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Freedom Focus Photography podcast. I'm your host, Nicole Bagleye, and today I have a returning guest, Karen Bartosz from up in my old stomping grounds of Pittsburgh, Pa.

Karen is back on the podcast. Karen, welcome. Thank you. I'm so glad to be back. Yay. I'm so happy to have you back. If you guys don't remember, Karen was on episode 233, your mind circus. We talked all about the mind drama, the mind monkeys, all of the things going on in our head as if it's a three wing circus. So, yeah, so if you resonate with that, which I don't know, who doesn't, you definitely want to go check out that episode.

But Karen, you've had some exciting things happening in the past couple months since we last chatted, and one of them is a little while. You've been deep diving into this for a while, but now you're really kind of ready to share this with the world. And what is the special magical power that you now possessed? Ah, yes. So a lot has happened since we chatted. Things have shifted in my life with kids moving out of the house, and it's time for another chapter of Karen Bartos.

But I recently became a certified story brand guide with Donald Miller, if you're familiar with him at all. Brilliant. His story brand and marketing made simple. So I took the leap and became a certified guide. Awesome. I'd love it. So, yeah, if you guys have not read storybrand, it is a, it's like one of those pillars of business books that you see recommended everywhere for a reason, because it's really, really good.

So can you give us, Karen, just kind of a high level overview of what the story brand is? What is that framework? And then we'll dive into the specifics. Sure. So let me just set the stage here for a minute. So how many people, when you talk to Nicole, do you hear people say, I'm not really sure what marketing is. I don't have a clear message. I don't know what to implement.

I don't know what to choose and stick with. So the result is people end up doing nothing at all. Do you hear that a lot? Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. And people, I think, just aren't even sure. Like, we internally kind of know what our value is that we're offering, but we don't really know what the value is that we're offering. And it's such a long value cycle that our clients don't even realize the tremendous value it is until maybe years down the line, even though they can see the value now.

But it's not something that it's like, oh, I can see how this widget will make my life better. Exactly. So the reality is people buy products or services only after they have read words that make them want to buy those products or services. As photographers, this is hard for us to wrap our brains around. Right. Because we take such great pride in the images we create and that we showcase.

We think our pictures should sell our business. But the fact is, words and story matter. So the framework we're going to talk about helps you clarify your message so your customers will listen. So I'm going to give you the cliff note version, and then we can dive into it. So stories really are formulaic. This is a story. It's nearly every story you see at the movies or reading a book.

A character has a problem and meets a guide that gives them a plan, calls them to action, and that either ends in success or failure. So that's pretty much what a story is. Yeah. I mean, really, everything that we do is stories or everything that we watch or read. I know one story I'm very excited to jump back into. Is Emily in Paris? Really? I am an Emily in Paris fanatic.

Karen, I forgot that about. Yes, August 15. Yep. But really, it doesn't matter. What? Gosh, what show you're watching or what movie you're watching. I mean, it really all comes down to stories. One of my other favorite ones is Ted Lasso. I feel like the world would be a better place if everybody watched Ted Lasso, but, yeah. So how the heck do we start to incorporate that into our.

Our business? Because, again, a lot of people think they're selling photography, but we know, especially once you start raising your prices and you start serving a higher level of market, that it's shifting, that you're not really selling photography anymore. Right. So before we break down the framework, let me talk a little bit about how the human brain works. I know you and Heather talk about the brain all the time.

Yep. Your customers brains are designed to do two things. Their brains are designed to help them survive and thrive. When you walk into Starbucks, you don't know how many tiles are on the ceiling, and you probably don't know how many tables are in there unless you stop to count. But if I asked you where the exit was or where you ordered coffee, you would instinctively know your brain is automatically filtering out information that doesn't contribute to your surviving and thriving.

It ignores the rest of the information. So your brand really needs to explain how you can help somebody survive and thrive. And we need to do it simply so that people don't have to burn a lot of calories to help, so they understand how the good news. This is how we harness the power of story. Gotcha. Okay. Yep. Yep. I can honestly say I have no idea even what the floor is in Starbucks.

But when you walk in, you know where to order and you know how to get out of the building if you had to. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay. All right, so where do we start with this? Okay, great. So a story starts with a character. A character who wants something. So there's two mistakes brands make when it comes to creating a story. They either don't define something their customer wants, or they talk about too many things they offer.

If you wrote a movie about Jason Bourne wanting to know who he is, lose 30 pounds, marry the girl, run a marathon, and maybe adopt a cat, you'd lose the audience. Why? The audience wouldn't be able to follow the plot because they're burning mental calories just following along. When we're talking about our business, we have to define something our customer wants, so they enter into the story our brand is telling.

So that's where we start with the story is a character. Okay, gotcha. And then, in terms of photography, is it usually the photography that our clients want or is there sometimes something deeper that they want? Like, where do we start to figure that out? Right. So great question. There's, you know, not only a problem that you're solving, it's an aspirational identity. So in the, in terms of photography.

Okay, so let's talk about senior photographers. Their problem is their seniors getting ready to graduate and leave the house. Time is, you know, you need to pause time for a minute and capture that milestone. For a lot of pet photographers that you work with, this is a tricky one, because eventually our pets are going to pass away, and we want them to live forever. So in the case of pet photographers and people, they serve the character, their clients are the character.

We want our pets to live forever. So that's really what our character wants. That's the problem we're solving for them. We can't make them live forever, but we can certainly remember, help them capture their pet and give them beautiful artwork that helps them remember that pet long after they're gone. I love that. And I love that you're speaking to the identity piece, because I talk about that a lot in the different levels of messaging.

You know, as your price goes up, as the market gets more crowded, then you have to elevate your messaging to speak to that identity, because, again, we're not serving or we're not selling photography or selling so much more. So, yes, that identity piece is really, really important. All right, so number one, character. Character. Yes. And what's the second aspect? Sure. The second part of a story is the character needs a problem.

I kind of touched on that a little bit, talking about what your clients want in terms of photos. But no story works unless the character encounters a problem. Now, the reason the character has to encounter the problem early in the story is because it leaves you with the question, will they get the happy ending? Will they defeat their enemy? If you watched a movie where the main character just walked around the beach all day enjoying the sun, you'd be bored out of your mind.

You'd be waiting for a shark to show up or a good looking lifeguard who's in mad pursuit of love. When we define something that has keeping our customer from getting what they want, we set the hook. Now the customer is wondering whether or not we can help them solve the problem. Once we've hooked our customer by agitating their desire, by defining a problem that is keeping them from getting what they want, they may be feeling a little hopeless.

So I'll pause there and we can talk about this, that, you know, you really have to define what they want. Like I said, the senior leaving the house, you want your pet to live forever, but you really have to set the hook and say and agitate that desire to want something. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, don't we all want all of our pets to live forever? That's definitely. That's definitely a good one there.

Do you have any recommendations on how to do that without. Because I know a lot of pet photographers specifically struggle with this because they don't want to be like, hey, your dog's not going to live very long. Like, you might want to get pictures now. Like, it feels just kind of, like, in your face. And I've heard from a lot of pet photographers that they feel like they start to feel badly about pointing that out because I think there's different thoughts behind it, too.

One of their thoughts might be that they're using this problem for their advantage and then they feel guilty about it, which is a whole other set of issues that we're talking about. That mind circus. That's mind drama right there. But, yeah, there's a lot of pet photographers that I think there may be reluctance to shine a light on this particular problem, which is that our pets don't live as long as we wish.

Right, exactly. And actually, I just finished working with Michelle Crandall from Pets in focus photo, and we had this conversation over and over again. And how do you say that without being so morbid? Debbie Downer. Debbie Downer. And, you know, it all comes back again to words and how you choose to phrase things. I know. For her, we decided to say, make every moment count. You know, we set the problem being that you have a million pictures on your phone of your dog, but they deserve more than that.

So that's kind of how we framed it with her. Without being so. Yeah, they're going to die one day. Yeah, yeah. Without being so blunt. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I love it. All right, we've got a character. Our character has a problem. What's next? So, like I said, they might be feeling a little hopeless. And this is when we enter the guide. At Storybrand, we call this a guide.

So for centuries, storytellers have been bringing another character at this point. So we've got a character. They have a problem now enters our guide, and this is going to help our character solve their problem, find their way. So in Hunger Games, Haymitch plays the guide to Katniss. In Star wars, both Yoda and Obi wan Kenobi play the guide to Lu Skywalker. The guide has one job in the story, and it's to help the hero win the day.

So the biggest paradigm shift you can experience in understanding how to create clear messaging is that you should never position your company as the hero of the story. Your customer is the hero and you are their guide. And I think that's where a lot of people, you know, when you go to an about page, it's, I do this, I do that. It's, you don't want to position yourself as the hero.

Your customer is the hero and you are their guide. Yeah. So what does that look like to try and implement that? I mean, staying away from the about page where it's like, I, I, I. For sure. Right. So in storybrand, we like to position the guide. They have empathy and authority. So, you know, in for your pet photographer people, empathy is going to be very unnatural, fit. I understand how you feel.

You shouldn't have to feel this way. You set them up with you make that connection via empathy, and then you can talk about your authority. I have photographed, I don't know, 200 dogs, or your family becomes my family. So there's two components to set yourself up as the guide that way. But like I said, for your pet photographer people, they're going to have that built in natural empathy because they love their dogs as much as their clients love their dogs.

Absolutely. Yeah, I love that. Okay, what's the next piece? So the next piece is we want. Our customers are, they might be a little, you know, they're interested in what you have, but they might not be ready to make a purchase. So for the first time in the journey, they're at risk. If they buy something, they could lose. They could lose their money or their time or their pride.

So we want to give them an easy plan to lessen the sense of risk. It's not unlike having to cross a raging creek just up from a waterfall. Few people are going to cross that creek, but if they see three stepping stones across the creek, they're more likely to cross. So as a brand, we need to give our customers baby steps so they can do business with us.

It might be simple as, number one, get in touch. Number two, have a stress free session. Number three, enjoy your artwork. Just listing three or four steps your customer can take to enjoy the results your product offers that it can create in their life. It's going to greatly increase the chance they'll take the leap and trust you. Yep. Would like a guarantee work here, too. That's a good question.

I think that might come more like in the testimonial part where do a lot of pet photographers offer a guarantee? I think because the risk piece is huge because so many owners might look at your work and be like, oh, I know she knows what she's doing, but she's never worked with my dog. Same thing with moms, maybe with toddlers. They've never encountered my two year old. Yeah, that would actually be a great piece to talk about when you're positioning yourself as the guide, you know, setting yourself up as having that authority.

Maybe you could talk about that guarantee when you're, when you're setting yourself up as the guide. Is that, you know, just offering that guarantee? Yeah, definitely set you up as the guide. Okay. And so then this part, this level of, you know, they're interested, but they're worried about the risk. Is it more just about letting them know, hey, here's the easy. The easy steps that this takes. Letting them know that it's going to be like a smooth road.

Exactly. It's just, this is how easy it is to work with me. This is how easy it is to take that leap across the, you know, you're not going to take the leap across the river. You're going to take baby steps across the river. So they're not going to take that leap to all of a sudden let you photograph their dog or their child. You're going to lay the stepping stones for them to see how easy it is.

Okay. Yep. All right. I love it. All right, so we have a character. The character has a problem. The character starts to feel a little bit hopeless and the guide shows up. And then they're interested to follow the guide, but they're still a little worried about what is involved. Okay, so then what's next? So we need one more. The hero still needs one more thing before they step fully into action.

They need us to call them into action. Heroes are reluctant to take action on their own. They have to be forced to take action. Right. A bomb has to go off, a letter has to arrive in the mail. A couple has to meet and fall in love, but fail to get each other's contact information. The reason this is true in stories is because it's true in life. People don't take action unless they're challenged to take action.

So there should be one obvious button to click on your website, and it should be the direct call to action. If your website has a bunch of links in that top right hand corner, you're losing sales. Brands tend to make two critical mistakes in this area of marketing. They don't make their calls to action clear enough? Or they have so many vague calls to action that the customer can't figure out what they want them to do.

So, for example, you might say, get started on a website. Get started doing what? What does get started mean? If you use words like buy now, schedule an appointment, and your customer will understand what you want them to do. The point is to give customers something they can clearly accept or reject. Gotcha. So we're calling them into action. That's the next part of our story. Okay. You don't recommend giving them a bomb threat?

No, I'm just kidding. No, no, everyone, we do not recommend that. But with those calls to action, that's really great advice, and I am a huge believer in that. Top right corner is like the most important piece of real estate on your website. Yes. Do you recommend having just a single call to action? That it is the same on every page that you figure out, like, all right, people come to my website.

What's the one thing I want them to do? And that's the same call to action everywhere. The same call to action. And again, you know, when I'm building websites, it is listed throughout the website. Yeah. You know, book now, schedule a call, you know, and this is a time to not get cute, like capture your best day ever or, you know, be very clear. So there is a direct call to action that's listed throughout the website.

There's also something we call have called an indirect call to action. And that might be download my free guide. So that's usually further down the page. But your direct call to action is clear. And your direct call to action should be in your emails that go out on the bottom of a blog post. You know, you want to make it easy to call that hero into the story.

Mm hmm. Okay, awesome. All right, so now our hero has told people what they want to do, and our. No, our hero knows what to do because the guide has set the stage. And now what happens? So we're getting near the end of the story. It's going to end one of two ways. So the character either gets what they want or they do nothing. There is either a successful ending in the story or the story ends in failure.

So what this means for a story to be compelling is there has to be something at stake. There are both positive and negative stakes in a compelling story. We call positive stakes in the story. Success. Success in a movie would be the girl gets the guy, the hero wins the race, the guy gets the promotion. The audience has to have something they're rooting for. When we show customers what their lives can look like if they use our products or services, they buy our products and services in order to achieve that future.

But the opposite is also true. We also have to show our customers the consequences of not doing business with us. If nothing is, nothing can be lost. There's no story. So imagine a story about a hero that has to disarm a bomb. Except that ten minutes into the movie, we find out the bomb's a dud and nobody's really at risk. Is there a story? No, because there is no consequence as to whether the hero takes action or nothing.

So what this means for us is if there are no consequences for not doing business with you, there's no reason to do business with you. So that's that, and that's the end of the story. So, yeah, yeah. So would you recommend that what this looks like is, you know, kind of having on your website, fleshing out kind of both paths of, like, here's what happens if you work with me.

Here's what happens if you don't and kind of agitating that potential problem down the road without your solution. Right. So. And, you know, you have to tread lightly on, you know, the negative and the failure. I mean, again, coming back to the pet photographers, the failure is your dog dies and you don't have pictures other than on your phone, so you kind of want to be careful there.

But, yeah. So you're kind of in this section. You're kind of recapping what's at stake and agitating that problem that we started with, but painting a picture, again of what life will look like if they work with you, and again, enjoying those benefits of working with you. Yeah. Okay. So focus more on the positive, but it's okay to tactfully remind them of. Yes, again, it is. It's very tricky for pet photographers, I will give you that.

In working with Michelle, we just went round and round with trying to tread lightly, but also really poke at those emotions. You know, there's a philosophical problem, you know, and that philosophical problem is your pet's not gonna live forever. Yeah. Would it work? Well, I'm thinking as a guide, and I'm thinking of my own pet story of, you know, how we lost our Zoe dog just suddenly when she was only six.

Like, within five days she was gone. Like, sharing that kind of story as the guide, which is sharing, like, the empathy of, like, hey, I've been here. But it's also maybe a way to showcase, like, telling them what can happen without having to say, like, hey, this could happen to you, too. But, like, it's working those types of stories in, oh, 100%. That's. That's a great. A great example of empathy as the guide, and it also, you know, adds to it.

Don't let this happen to you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I can think, too, of, you know, from that for the pet side and then from the equine side, you know, I have a story that I'd like to tell, too, of, gosh, I had my. My first heart horse. Can you have two heart horses? I think you can. That's loud, right? Yeah. Yes, you can. There's no limit. Anyway, my one off the track thoroughbred that I had in college, and back then, we didn't have cameras in our pockets.

We didn't have all the phone cameras. And I had some horse show photos. I actually have one. You can't see it. It's right off the side. That one's my current heart horse. But anyway, I had some jumping photos, but then when my mom was cleaning out her basement, oh, gosh, probably 1520 years after I graduated, she found an old, like, storyboard that a friend of mine had taken photos for a photography class or an art class she was in of just us around the barn.

And my mom found this in the basement, and I was just like, oh, my God, they meant the world to me because I didn't have anything, like, just casual photos or photos of us or, you know, photos that weren't just, like, the show photos of him jumping. So, you know, being able to experience that and how valuable that was, so far removed from the situation is another. Another great way, I think, to showcase the importance of what we do.

Right. Yeah. And I remember that story. I remember you. I don't know if you've told it on a podcast. I remember that. And so you've taken the pictures apart and have put them in frames now? Yeah, they just. I have them. Yeah. Up with my albums. Yeah. Yeah. Like, so you. Did you take a picture of it when it was still intact? Like. No, because I didn't think, you know, at the time, I didn't think of how much it related to what I actually do.

You know what I mean? I was like, oh, this is great. And afterwards, I'm like, oh, this is why photos are so valuable. Yes. Sometimes it takes me a minute to make that connection, Karen. No, I love that. I love that. Awesome. All right, so our character finds success or failure. Is that the end of the story, or is there any end of the story? So that's this that's the, you know, the seven park framework.

Okay. Again, so you've got a character who has a problem, who meets the guy, that's you as the business owner. And we're going to give him that plan, you know, the steps to cross the brook, and then we call them to action book now, schedule now. And then we paint the picture of how life will look once they've worked with us. Awesome. We touch lightly on the failure part of not working with it.

Okay. And then it's all of that on your website. And then also, do you kind of go through it a little bit again, when you have your inquiry, like, where do all these steps happen? Right. So basically from a story brand framework, they are the seven parts of your homepage, if you will. Okay. And then what's great is, you know, you have these talking points that you can use when you have a consult with somebody, you can use in a welcome package.

You can even use in social media, you know, especially that hook of agitating that problem. Once you have all these components of your story, use it across all of your marketing because it just makes it cohesive, it gives you sound bites again, that you can use. And it just once, you know, and I have a degree in marketing, and once I went through their training and looked at marketing through that lens, pun intended, I realized once you look at it through the story brand framework, it makes your marketing efforts a lot easier when you look at it as storytelling.

Mm hmm. Yeah. No, and I think if we start to look at things like that, too, people are always like, what do I put on social? What do I put if they want to have a blog? And it's like, this is Fluffy. Fluffy session was here. We like Fluffy. You can pull so much more out of it. And I think once we start to do this, we could probably start to think of, like, little questions that we can ask our clients or start to kind of take notes of what made Fluffy so special and, like, start to kind of weave that into, like, this kind of guideline into really anything that we share.

Well, and I think when you're sharing blogs about Fluffy, you know, what prompted that client to reach out to you? You know, how did you feel? And these are great questions to ask. How did you feel about Fluffy before working with me? How did you feel about Fluffy after working with me and just pulling some of those things out by asking questions that would make a great blog and could be woven into another story.

Yeah, make great testimonials, too, all over your website, because that's such an important piece. And I know that a lot of your pet people, your photography people, they sell beautiful wall art, and that pulls out another emotion when a client looks at that beautiful wall art, especially if the animal is gone. You know, you've worked with my sister. I watched you work with my sister, and I've seen her beautiful wall art that you created for her.

And I know. I know the emotions it stirs in her every time she looks at that. So, you know, that's another piece that's going back to the aspirational identity or the problem that we solved for that client is if you can talk about the artwork, maybe showcase a client's home artwork and what it means to them. All great pieces you can weave into a blog or even in your guide or when talking to people.

Yeah, I love that. And I think it's really important to actually reach out to our clients and find out what they think and their words from it, because I don't think either us or our clients really know how valuable it is until it's in the future, you know? So to be able to kind of get that feedback from somebody that's now been enjoying it and what it means to them now afterwards, so that the people coming to your website can see what the kind of.

What that future payout is. Because, you know, I think a lot of people, like, the first time I know I heard about storybrand, I was like, all right, well, that's great for, like, a gutter cleaner. I know I have a problem. You know what I mean? But a lot of times, photography clients don't know that we have. That they have a problem or that there is a problem here.

Right. Because it seems like such a not frivolous, but just kind of, like, fun thing to do that it's not like life or death situation. Right, right. And that goes back to what I mentioned then, you know, the aspirational identity. So it is, you know, you want to be that ultimate dog loving mom or dad or, you know, I know. For my sister, all of. So what? Her five dogs and three horses, every one of those animals represents a different time in her life.

And she didn't realize that until I'm, you know, we started talking about the shoot with you. It's like. Yeah. Like, every one of those animals represents something in my life. So that's that aspirational identity that she has a part of her life captured through her animals. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I thought was still one of my favorite sessions. So fun. I still want to move into her house. Oh, my gosh, it's like barna right there in the woods.

So beautiful. I love it. Oh, my gosh. Um, well, this has been so, so good, Karen. Thank you so much. And I hope this conversation has helped you guys, our listeners, to kind of start to think about what you offer in a new way. Because again, if you're trying to sell photography and you're priced above $500, like, it's. You're not selling photography. You know, if you're still kind of getting started shooting burn type thing, then, okay, at that point, you are selling photography.

But once we start raising those prices, it's so much more. And you have to tap into that for people to understand the value and come on board with this. And, you know, I can. I can hear the naysayers in their mind right now, but like, nicole, I don't want to take advantage of the blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, I love what I do. I shouldn't get paid for it.

You should. You're offering a service, and the value that, that your clients have from the service you provided lasts forever and gets more valuable with time. Absolutely. Yeah. So if that mind circus is giving you problems, go back to episode 233 where we talk to Karen about mind circuses. Karen, let us know where people can find you online. And I know you have a little special, fun offer for all of our listeners do.

Yes. So my website is karenbartoscoaching.com. you can find me on instagram at karenbartos coaching. And then I do have a free Facebook page, Karen bartowscoaching. That's where they can find me. But I would love to offer your listeners a free website audit so they can go to my website, karenbartoscoaching.com. there is my call to action. That is schedule a call, book a call like my call to action.

If they fill out, if they book a call, there'll be a place to enter their website and we can schedule a call and go over, you know, they can get some feedback on their website. That is my first offer, exclusive for your audience. But also I'll be offering workshops, free workshops that will walk people through this framework that we just talked about where we identify, you know, everybody's character is going to be their client, obviously, but we can help them.

I will help them refine their messaging to fit this framework. Again, completely free workshop. I think I have one scheduled on September 19. But again, if you go to my website book that call for a free website audit, you automatically be entered into my CRM to be notified of when I'm having these free workshops. Perfect. I love it. Yeah, go take advantage of that, guys, because that's really a great way to start to make that more connection and start speaking to the identity and values of our clients, because that's what we need to speak to as that goes up.

And then Bartos is spelled b a r t o s. So, Karen, just normal. Karenbartos coaching.com. yes. Yeah. All right, perfect. Yeah. All right, we'll put the links in the show notes, too. Okay, great. All right, Karen, thank you again for being here with us. Do you have any last words of advice for any photographers out there that are trying to make this photography thing happen or grow their business?

Well, thank you for having me back. It's always a pleasure, always fun to hang out with you. So do you mean, like, piece of advice for someone starting out from a story brand framework or just piece of advice in general or just in general? Any photographer out there, like, go back to when you were a photographer, like, trying to grow your business. What piece of advice do you have for them?

Oh, gosh. So my brother said this to me one time. I was visiting him in college, and, you know, we had to id used the bathroom, and we're in downtown Philly, and he's like, we walked into a hotel. I'm like, we don't. We're not staying here. We don't. You know, he's like, just fake it till you make it. Drive it like you own it, is what he told me.

So that's my piece of advice. Drive it like you own it. Drive it like you own that photography business. Fake it till you make it. And surround yourself with people they can learn from, like you, your great community, and just soak up as much as you can. Yeah, I love that. Oh, my gosh. And that's also a great place to stop and use a bathroom because that's much nicer than, like, the.

The wawa in the corner. I'll go into the Ritz and find their lobby bathroom. Yeah, they don't know. Just drive it like you own it. Fantastic. Oh, my gosh. All right, thank you again, Karen, for being here. Everybody reach out to Karen, let her know how you found this useful, and then check out definitely that free course. And then also her website audits, if you would find that helpful.

And we will talk to you guys next week. Bye, everybody.