Freedom Focus Photography

Money Story Shattering with Heather and Kerry

• Nicole Begley, Heather Lahtinen, Kerry Jordan • Episode 256

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256 - In this episode of the Freedom Focus Photography podcast, join me as we welcome back Kerry Jordan.  She bravely opens up about a major block that’s been affecting her work for decades - a feeling of being disingenuous selling luxury artwork to private clients and being particularly uncomfortable with the sales process around upselling products after the session.  

She knew that this was rooted in a belief of some kind - but after working with previous coaches, taking numerous classes, and trying what felt like everything - Heather Lahtinen gets to the heart of the issue in this 40 minute conversation. 

Do not miss this one.  This episode is packed with insights, breakthroughs, and actionable advice that could transform the way you approach your business.

What to listen for:

The Major Belief Shift: Kerry uncovered a 40-year-old belief about money and luxury that was holding her back from fully embracing her portrait photography business.

The "Outsider" Syndrome: Kerry realized she felt like an outsider when dealing with wealthy private clients, a feeling rooted in her childhood experiences with money.

Shifting from Discomfort to Empowerment: By acknowledging and understanding her discomfort, Kerry found a way to embrace it and transform her approach to sales.

Curiosity as a Tool: Kerry's commitment to curiosity allowed her to explore the deeper reasons behind her discomfort with selling to private clients, leading to significant breakthroughs.

The Importance of Alignment: The episode highlights how feeling aligned with your work can make all the difference in your business success.

Resources From This Episode:

Join Us for Coach Week: 3 Days of Live Coaching and Breakthroughs to Help You Unlock Your Photography Business Potential Register here.

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In today's episode of the Freedom Focus Photography podcast, we are bringing back our recent guest, KerryJordan. And Heather Lahtinenc is joining me on this new podcast episode in which we are diving in to some of the limiting beliefs that Kerry had on her last podcast. If you listen to the last one, you remember that she was a portrait photographer, and then she went when she moved fully into commercial pet photography.

And there's nothing wrong with that. We're not trying to convince her to add portrait work back into her business. But there were some major limiting beliefs that came up during that conversation that are not unique to her. A lot of people in our audience, a lot of people listening, you might even have these limiting beliefs that it is kind of yucky, or you're feeling kind of like not feeling great selling your work.

If you have any limiting beliefs around sales, around selling your private work, you definitely want to listen to this conversation. Because in this 40 minutes conversation, we dug down into something that has been really plaguing the subconscious of Kerry for the past 40 years. And by golly, I think we actually cleared it. Or we certainly made a lot of work because now we figured out what it was that was causing her so much stress around the selling.

So stay tuned. I'm Nicole Bagley, a zoological animal trainer turned pet and family photographer. Back in 2010, I embarked on my own adventure in photography, transforming a bootstrapping startup into a thriving six figure business by 2012. Since then, my mission has been to empower photographers like you, sharing the knowledge and strategies that have helped me help thousands of photographers build their own profitable businesses. I believe that achieving two to $3,000 sales is your fastest route to six figure businesses, that any technically proficient photographer can consistently hit four figure sales.

And no matter if you want photography to be your full time passion or a part time pursuit, profitability is possible. If you're a portrait photographer aspiring to craft a business that aligns perfectly with the life you envision, then you're in exactly the right place. With over 350,000 downloads. Welcome to the Freedom Focus Photography podcast. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Freedom Focus Photography podcast. I am your host, Nicole Bagley, and today we have a special podcast with not one, but two incredible guests.

Actually, so much that I'm gonna, like, kind of back away from this conversation. I don't know, I might still interject a little bit here and there, but I don't want too many cooks in the kitchen. And I brought in our heavy hitter mindset ninja. Heather Lautnan is here. Coming back to the podcast is Kerry Jordan from Fern Fables photography. You guys probably just heard her very recently on episode 253, where she was talking about her kind of move from doing portrait work into the pet photography commercial space and what that looked like.

And it was a really great conversation. And during that, we had a couple mindset drama things that kind of came up. And Kerry was so lovely talking about them and sharing. And I know so many of you guys have very similar thoughts to come up to. And so she was willing to come back to the podcast to bring the three of us together. And we're going to dig into some of these beliefs.

So I feel like we need a little ding ding ding like boxing. Belle, we're ready. Heather. Kerry, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. So, Kerry, it's nice to meet you. I actually just met you, like, in person, but I listened to your podcast, and I was so curious. I just. It's just that I have a lot of questions, that's all. There were a lot of things that came up, so maybe you could, for anyone listening to this episode, kind of give us the 30,000 foot view of private clients to commercial.

So set the stage. Yeah, so sure. As Nicole said when we were talking on the last podcast, what came up was the very short and simple description is, I feel really comfortable selling to commercial clients. I went through seven or eight years of pet portraits, not knowing how to. Not being able to get comfortable with selling. And I had tried sales courses. I had tried mentoring, I tried in person sales.

I had tried, like, online sales, I tried going to people's homes. I tried everything, and nothing was sticking on it. So excuse my dogs just being a bit of a diva. And, yeah, it just. It just never felt comfortable to me. And in fact, it felt uncomfortable, whereas commercial side, for some reason, I just feel like I'm flying. And it feels like this is the thing that I should be doing.

Okay, take me back to these private clients. You said you did everything like the coaching, the mentoring, the courses, and nothing just stuck with you. Why do you think that is? So the thing that I have come up with myself so far, and we touched briefly on it, was I grew up in quite an impoverished, maybe not impoverished, but quite a poor background. And, you know, we really had to work for money.

Like, we had to decide whether, you know, we were going to have a. I might just have to tuck him in. I'm really sorry. That's okay. Go ahead. Go tuck him in. We will take a small, momentary break for nap time. Tuck in. Tuck him in. She's going to have to tuck him in. Yeah. Got it. That's fun. Those of you guys listening right now, too, I mentioned this to Kerry before we got started.

Like, none of this conversation today is to dissuade Kerry from continuing to go all in on her commercial, her commercial goals. I think it's great. I think it's awesome. If that business model works well for her, then awesome. I like, none of us, we don't want to change her path, but we wanted to kind of shed light on some of these thoughts, because I know a lot of you guys might struggle with similar thoughts.

And. And we also want to clear them for Kerry, because who knows? When you clear these thoughts, what is possible, even if she sticks with just the commercial stuff. Um, so anyway, that's why we're doing this here. So just wanted to put that public service announcement out there that none of this is saying that she needs to change and go back to private clients. We just want to dig through these thoughts.

So, Kerry, go back to you. Um, yeah. Growing up, um, kind of, uh, more on the. The money conscious, money concern scale. Yeah, exactly. So we really had to make choices of, you know, what we were going to buy on a sort of weekly basis. And I think that that sort of the, you know, luxury for us was, you know, having a very cheap meal out. And so what I have come up with when I've been digging through my own money blockages is that I see the final prints and upselling as a luxury.

Even though I was fine selling the sessions, there was something. There is definitely a block there about the upselling. So selling wall art, selling canvases, selling books, that kind of thing, it was there that I was getting really stuck because you have those in the luxury category. And so luxury items were just not an option for you growing up. Correct? Correct. Yeah. So that means it couldn't be an option for them.

Or is it like, you just didn't feel comfortable selling that? Like, give me the point of view there. In terms of, like, luxury. Is it. Is it that you want to protect them from the decision or, like, go deeper in that? I don't think it's protecting them from the decision. If they choose to do. If they choose to purchase something, then that's great. It was how I. I wasn't able to push those sales on them.

It was my communication with them. So I would go through, this is what you can have. But it always felt disingenuous somehow. Maybe I didn't believe that it was a necessity. It felt like I. Yeah, it didn't felt, it didn't feel truthful. The selling didn't feel truthful to me, as in, this is what I should be doing. And I think I said on the last podcast, if I could just give them the stuff, I would.

And obviously that's not a great career move. Yeah, that doesn't build a business per se. Right. That's how I was feeling. And if I could have done something around bundling everything up with just the session feed and I didn't have to do anything else, that probably would have been easier for me. But the upsell, it felt, yeah, it felt disingenuous. I just couldn't figure out why. And that's probably why I didn't get to a point where I was earning a certain amount by doing the upselling.

Oh, for sure. And when we have the language of I'm pushing, you said, I don't want to push this on them, then you're making it sound like you are forcing them to do it. So that's part, and that's not who you are. I mean, I know that's not who you are. So that could be part, not all, but part of why it feels disingenuous. Because if you have the thought I'm pushing this on them and that's just not who you are, it's not going to feel congruent.

But I just wonder if you could go back, just like, put your mind there to a time when you were doing this and you felt disingenuous. Can you recall what you were thinking that was causing that feeling? Don't think I, I can remember the feeling. It was very much like I was uncomfortable in my own skin. And I've, you know, I've done things that should make me feel uncomfortable, like talking on stage and pitching to big clients.

And I've never felt that kind of uncomfortable in my own skin. So maybe it was around my confidence in it. Despite all the, you know, the courses, etcetera, I've done. And I, you know, I did sell, so it's not like I never sold anything, but it never felt natural, whereas the commercial side feels natural. And so, yeah, I still don't know what that separated. Why do you think the commercial side feels natural?

Where I got to on this was, I feel like I'm helping. So this isn't a necessity as such. It's more a business need. And I worked for 20 years in the city, so, you know, I saw how business works and what their need was, and marketing and advertising and things like that. So for me, it's something that's gonna help their business. So that feels easy for me. So I can see how I'm helping.

I know I'm good at it. I know that I can organize the shoot. There's not very many people doing what I do in the UK at the moment, and it feels much more natural. And I am wondering if the portrait side never felt like a business to me. And that's another sticking point, maybe. Whereas this feels business to business, feels like a real business, whereas business to like portrait for some reason, I don't know why it didn't feel proper.

Well, I think one thing we dug into last time that seemed to be an aha with the difference here was the business to business. There was a very immediate, tangible benefit where it was like, I give you great pictures, you sell more stuff, where the tangible benefit for portrait work is not as tangible. Definitely more emotional. And it's not immediate. Yeah, they love it. But it becomes more and more valuable, like 510 years down the road.

So that was definitely a possible disconnect. And I want to go back to the being uncomfortable in your own skin, and I don't want to lead the witness, but I do want to just offer this as a potential. Could this have been something with it? Were you concerned about their judgment of you for selling that or for doing that? Upsell? I don't think so. I do. I do wonder if there was a slight imposter syndrome going on.

And again, I don't know why there's a difference between commercial and portrait on this, but maybe not feeling. Because I felt uncomfortable, I felt like I wasn't doing a good job. So maybe it's the fact that if I felt confident, it would have been easier, but because I didn't feel confident, it felt a little bit like I wasn't doing it right. So there was a. Why? Why does this feel uncomfortable?

Probably because I'm not doing it right. Why am I not doing it right? I don't understand. This is so interesting. I'm actually writing furiously over here, taking notes on what the connections might be. So let's go back just for a second. Your commercial work you feel confident in, correct? Correct? Yeah. Okay. What's the thought that's driving that confidence? You feel confident because you're thinking, I wonder if it is because there's not a huge amount of people doing what I do in the UK, so there's no one really to compare me to.

So there are some awesome, like, I know at least two or three women who are doing this and specialising in pets, whereas there are a lot of others doing pet portraits and commercial and weddings and other stuff. So maybe it's that, but also I feel a connection with the companies, so I go on a journey with them and I build a relationship with them. So maybe this is something I have a conversation, and it's not just I me turning up for a shoot.

It is a long term journey. I've had commercial clients for nine years now, so most of them keep coming back. Whereas with the pet portraits, I did have some people who kept coming back and were really lovely supporters. But it was pretty much, you turn up, you do the shoot. That's it, then. And then it goes from that to sales straight away. So I can't. I now can't remember what the question was.

No, that's okay. You're answering it. So I asked you what. What's driving the feeling of confidence? And you said, well, there's not much competition. You're helping them, you're connecting, you're on a journey, you're building a relationship, which I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but all of those things lead you to feeling very comfortable in your own skin, so you're able to talk about pricing and send them an invoice and accept the money.

Is that correct? Yeah, that is true. And what you have just said sparked something, actually. And again, I have no idea how all this links together, but I was quite a nerdy kid at school, and, you know, I didn't have very much friends, and I liked geeky things, and I. I've always felt like a little bit of an outsider. And I do feel like when I was trying to sell, it was like I was playing this Persona and it was not part of who I was on the private client stuff, I felt like that outsider again, that's, you know, that geeky kid who was, like, at the school wall, hoping that somebody would say hello to me.

Whereas, well, for whatever reason, with the commercial side, I feel comfortable in my own skin and I can actually be a nerd. You know, I put it all out there and it is like I get excited and I'm not afraid to show that even, like, it's. Even though I'm professional, it doesn't mean boring. You know, you don't have to have this real rigid rigidity to the shoots and things like that.

And it is very much. You either book me or you don't. And I wonder if with the private clients, because there was that two stage element. And there was that first stage where I was fine doing the photography and then, but then there's this gap where I then have to upsell. That's where I started to feel uncomfortable and nerdy and like a bit of an outsider and uncomfortable.

Whereas with the commercial side, it's very much, you know what I can do? You book me, you pay me. That's it. Yeah. You're feeling very genuine when you're working with the commercial clients, right? Yeah, yeah. And you had mentioned earlier that you feel with the private clients disingenuous. And that's just so interesting what we do from those two different perspectives. When you are feeling disingenuous, like, oh, this isn't really me and I'm an outsider and I don't fit in and you start to feel really uncomfortable, I wonder.

So you've literally just sparked something off. If I feel uncomfortable because that's not something that I would have been able to afford and I am uncomfortable with the fact that they are buying these big ticket items because that's a block in me. 100%. Yes. Kerry, if you feel like you can't afford it or you wouldn't spend the money, guess what that equals. Let's do a little math equation here for these clients.

If I feel uncomfortable and disingenuous, maybe it's because I wouldn't spend that money and I don't know what that's like. Which means guess what? I can't relate to you. If I can't relate to you, guess what? I don't fit in. I'm an outsider. What? I'm telling myself I'm an outsider. I don't fit in. I can't relate. This is disingenuous. It is perfectly reasonable to think that you would feel uncomfortable in those situations and therefore hesitate on any level, like sharing the pricing or working up the invoice.

And then the result is lower sales than what could be. I know you said you were selling things, but it could have been so much more and also led you to leave that behind. But it, but, like, what if it was just because of your thoughts, not because you're obviously good at what you do. Obviously. Right. You take, I scoured your website, okay. And your Facebook and you'll see a whole bunch of likes from Heather.

That was, that's me. So obviously you're really good at what you do and you have, I'm going to call these. So for anybody who can't see us, I'm holding up two hands. I'm going to show you, these two different models. One model with the commercial clients is, I know what I'm doing. I don't have a lot of competition. I'm helping them. We're forming a relationship. I'm connecting to them.

I'm going on this journey with them. They love me. I love them. This is easy. They're a business. They need this. And you feel very confident and comfortable when you feel that way. You form these relationships and these connections. You sell a. A lot of product. You do very well, and then you get, I think you had mentioned this. You develop these relationships where you go on this journey with these businesses for several years.

Correct? Yeah. Yeah. Because you're so. You, you're so genuine. You feel like you're being genuine. You feel like you fit in. We're together, and it's this beautiful symbiotic relationship. It's like poetry over here, you know? And it just works. And you love it because it feels good, but it doesn't feel good because, you know, there's this commercial client who's paying you money. It feels good because of what you're thinking.

And you're thinking, I know what I'm doing. I fit in. We have a connection. They're a business. So I don't have to worry about their pocketbook and what they can afford because they clearly have a budget for this. They need me. I'm helping them sell more, which means I'm adding tremendous value. You have all of these great thoughts. I call them clean thoughts, just like, very clean. And then as a result, you feel great.

And when you feel great, you show up differently. You don't hesitate. You don't worry about what they're thinking. You email the freaking invoice and you're like, click here to pay. And it's amazing. Is that, is that correct, that model? Yeah. I so want to say no because you want to believe that you're doing this, because it's what I mean, I do think that I'm good at it, but you fight against the fact that it's just thoughts.

It's like a proper internal, like. Yeah. Pushing and pulling of. No, no, no. It's not just my thoughts. It's not just my thoughts, but it is. It is. You just don't want to admit it. No, because if it were that simple, then that means we could change them and do something about the other model. And nobody wants to admit that. You just want to say, like, no, these are the circumstances.

This is how it is. This is factual. And that's why this is working, but my job is to dig deeper and look at the thoughts, because it's not the circumstance. It's how you think about it. It's created this beautiful business for you. Hey. Which is great. We could all learn from that. I can create the business of my dreams based on what I'm thinking. Now, for you, it just kind of happened really beautifully.

Like, naturally, you know, organically, that just happened for you. You landed on it, you love it, and you continue doing it. And the reason we're talking today is to help the other people who are having the thoughts about the private clients, that model that is causing them to struggle and not get the results. So, again, I if we look at the model with your commercial clients, it's just clean and it's just working, and it's great, which means to you, it's just, like, genuine and easy.

So, of course, that's where I'm going to put my attention. Now, if you wanted to, I know you don't, but if you wanted to explore the private clients, that model is actually the complete opposite, which is why it feels disingenuous to you. Remember, in the commercial model, you feel like you fit in, but in the private model, you're an outsider. And when you think you're an outsider, it feels no matter what you do, it's going to feel disingenuous no matter what you do, because you're the outsider and you wouldn't pay for it.

Which means we project these money thoughts. I say we put on our money glasses, and however we grew up, or the money thoughts we think, we project that on, we think everyone views money that way. Mm hmm. So if you think, I would never spend money on these luxury items, your brain, not you. Your brain assumes no one else should or will, even though we see evidence to the contrary, it doesn't matter because the brain is stronger than that.

So in this client, or, yeah, in private client model, you're like, this isn't me. I don't fit in. This is disingenuous. I wouldn't spend the money, which leads you to feel uncomfortable, which means your action that you take is, you know, half hearted. It's disingenuous. It's filled with hesitancy, like, oh, are you sure you want to get this frame for $2,000? Okay, you're not saying that. I call that your unintentional sales pitch, because you might be saying, hey, this frame starts at $2,000, and you might be showing them right.

But here's the message. You're sending out, like, through your energy and your pores. This is it. Okay. I call this the unintentional sales picture. Like, yeah, that's $2,000, but that's a lot of money. I would never spend that. That's a luxury item. I can't believe you would spend that much money. Like, what's up with you? I wouldn't do that. And it's just, like, coming across in your energy, and then, you know, you.

You stifle your own sales because of it, and the result is lower sales. And guess what? A business that feels like garbage. You just feel like crap all the time. And then we blame it on sales. I don't. You know, I tried the ips, I tried the zoom, I tried meeting per. I tried. I tried everything. I tried this coaching. And that's because you're trying to shift the circumstance so that you feel differently and you're ignoring the thoughts.

So you tried all these circumstances and actions and it didn't work, correct? Yeah. And I think. I don't think I was consciously thinking those things because I've only just figured it out. But the other thing is coming from the background that I did. It's probably the fact that I was in the vicinity of people who could afford that. That made me feel uncomfortable as well, because I didn't grow up with that kind of money.

And I. Again, because of the circumstances that I grew up in, if I was in their, you know, in their homes, it's like I'm in the homes of somebody who can afford this kind of thing. I don't belong here. This doesn't. This feels weird. I don't know how to act. I don't know what to say. And I'm going to say something stupid, and, like, I don't want to gush too much about their home, but their home's gorgeous.

But that's just normal to them. And it's. That's. That is how I was feeling. But the sales, definitely, subconsciously, I was projecting. I don't understand how people can buy this. You were projecting the outsider energy. Everything. You nailed it. Everything you just said and described made you feel like an outsider then, and it's extended to now. And. No, I know for a fact you weren't doing any of this consciously.

None of us are, or we wouldn't do it. Like, if we knew, if we were more aware, then we could just catch these thoughts. So how is this landing for you now that you're becoming more aware? It's. It's actually feeling quite emotional because I think I. When, you know, that little girl is obviously still inside me somewhere and I've not been taking care of her because I've just been trying to ignore it and knowing that she's still there and I've gone into those situations and made myself and her feel very uncomfortable because I've not been working on that side of.

It is kind of sad. It makes me. Yeah, it makes me feel sad for her and like, yeah, that little girl that's sort of in everybody, you know, we. We think that we get rid of these sort of sides of ourselves, but we really don't. So I don't mind talking about her as if she's still there. She is. Yeah. So, yeah, it makes me, it makes me kind of sad because there are things that could have been done differently if I'd have acknowledged her uncomfortable, how uncomfortable she was.

Kerry, that's really beautiful, honestly, that you recognize that little girl and you feel compassion for her and that you, you're looking back and saying, oh, man, I made her feel unsafe, actually, because it was so uncomfortable. That's what I read down, too, is safety. Like, it was, that little girl was an un, it was not a safe situation because, you know, you don't belong there. Get kicked out of the tribe, then you're starved to death and die.

And then, you know, unknowingly, you obviously didn't mean to do this. You resisted her. You ignored her. You kind of pushed it away. But that's not because you were trying to harm her. You just didn't realize. So at the end of that, you had said there were so many things that could have been done differently. But what I want to offer you is it doesn't matter what you did then.

You didn't know. All that matters is what you do with this new information moving forward. So it's not like we're just not going to beat ourselves up over that. There's just no point to it. Because now, you know differently, you'll show up differently. So I ask myself, and maybe you'll find this useful, is how can I honor that little girl, like, and just hold space for her with so much love and compassion and continue to grow and move forward?

Yeah, that's a question. How can you look back at little Kerry and say, hey, like, I've got you. I promise I hear you and I'm going to keep you safe. Because here's the thing about our brains. If we try to ignore and resist, it's just going to get louder. It's going to become more difficult. So one thing I did my therapist recommended years ago is I actually printed out a photo of myself when I was about three or four.

And I really recommend that you do this. I printed out on a little Polaroid I have and a little cute little printer, and I'm using it as a bookmark. And I look at that little version of myself and I just, like, hold space for her. With so much compassion, I say to her, I love you. It's going to be okay. I promise. I'm going to keep you safe, even when it feels, like, very unsafe.

I grew up very similar to you. Very, very, very poor. Like, I didn't know what a furnace was until, like, I went to college. I didn't know people had central heat. I didn't know that that was a thing. I live in southwestern Pennsylvania. It's pretty cold. So I didn't even know how. I didn't know how poor we were until later. But I look back now at growing my business and making money.

And let me tell you something about little Heather. She is not feeling great. She is very uncomfortable. I have to work with compassion and space to hold that room for her and continue to grow like current Kerry and thinking about future Kerry. But we need to bring past Kerry into this as well. Nicole and I had a podcast recently about our past future selves. But I want you to consider, like, what that looks like moving forward in light of all that you've uncovered and especially this beautiful component about yourself as a child.

How can I hold space for her and continue to work on what's happening now and focus on how and where I do fit in instead of, you know, separating myself? So one of the things that I have been attempting to do whilst doing a lot of self development is acknowledging feelings and almost viewing them as a not. Well, yeah, maybe a third party. So, for example, when I'm feeling particularly angry or upset, or it's usually the negative emotions, it's taking time to acknowledge those feelings rather than react to them.

So I think there's a difference between reacting and responding. And so I will sit with them and feel them rather than just letting them overtake me. And I think because I know now that feeling of uncomfortableness and where it comes from, when it comes up, I can acknowledge that and make time for it, rather than, as you said, just going, oh, it's just the sales process, you know, it's the sales.

I can now acknowledge that I know where this comes from and why, and it will be less. I feel like something that I'm working against and something that I am embracing, accepting. Listen, I gotta tell you, that's genius level, right? The master skill is being with an emotion instead of avoiding it. Feeling emotion and saying like, oh, I'm uncomfortable now. Oh, it's so interesting. Adding a level of curiosity, what am I thinking that's causing me to feel uncomfortable in this moment?

And how can I just allow it? Because again, if you resist it, it's just going to increase. So you allow that. Uncomfortable and just like with care and compassion. Yeah, I feel uncomfortable because this is different. Everything that's new and different is going to feel uncomfortable and it's okay. The mistake, mistake alert for most photographers is they think that fear or being uncomfortable is a reason not to do something.

And that's simply not true. You just have to explore, oh, I'm feeling afraid. What am I thinking that's causing me to feel afraid? Oh, my brain thinks that I'm going to die if I raise my pricing. Okay, no wonder you're afraid. Death is involved. It makes perfect sense. And then you just sit there and like, this is what it's like to feel fear and it's okay. My coach calls it like processing your emotions, like just sitting with your emotions instead of resisting them.

And it sounds like you've got a pretty good handle on that. Yeah, I hope so. I've been working on it quite hard, but I loved the word that you used because it's one of my pillars is curiosity and being curious about why I do things, why I think things, and the reason behind them. And I have always been curious about why I couldn't do the sales. It just never, I never got to the bottom of it.

And so I got to a place where I was. I basically said I shouldn't. Why should I make things so difficult for myself when I've got an option over here where I feel comfortable? And so I did. It was, you know, the commercial side feels comfortable and it's not like I didn't try with the sales, but I, because I didn't understand where the initial blockage came from. It just wasn't working.

So of course you made the move. You did. Why wouldn't you? It was more comfortable and it was easier over here. Anybody, any human would have done the exact same thing because you felt like you couldn't figure it out. And the reason is you went into your action line. I always call it the action line. You did all of these things and it still wasn't working and it wasn't fitting.

So you're like, okay, I'm going to move over here. But that's because we were diagnosing the wrong problem. We were, we weren't looking at the thoughts behind it. You were just, I picture you like just trying to like muscle your way through it. Like I don't know why I'm going to try all these things and nothing is working. And so I'm just going to go over here because it's easier over here and it works.

And it is, by the way, it is. But it's not because it's easier. It's because of your thoughts around what you're doing around the circumstance that you're doing. Okay, this is so interesting. Do you feel like this conversation has given you more clarity on the private client? I've got? Yeah, I've got goosebumps and I don't think it's because it's cold. I love it. I genuinely am always fascinated with how the mind continually throws things at you from different angles that you never would have thought of.

So, and I know that there's a lot of, you know, I've worked through a lot of trauma and things like that and so I've figured out things that why my brain is doing the things that it is. But knowing like this, my schoolgirl Kerry, who's like the nerdy, like can't, you know, she doesn't go to rich people's homes, was in there kind of going, this makes me feel highly uncomfortable.

Has been a proper light bulb moment for me. And I do actually still do private clients but only when they ask me. And so it's going to be interesting to see how the sales go on that I actually can't wait for this. You definitely have to let me know because I think it would be great to just practice it to allow yourself to feel uncomfortable and just get really curious in your mind and say, what am I thinking that's causing me to feel uncomfortable?

And this disingenuous. I don't fit in. I'm like almost certain it goes back to the young version of yourself that just didn't feel comfortable around nice things or rich people or a lot of money because you didn't have it. But can I learn to or how can I, what can I think to fit in to feel more comfortable? That's when you turn the frustration into fascination. So get really curious, turn the frustration into fascination and see what you can learn.

But instead what most of us do is we get frustrated and we're like, I'm out. Just like this doesn't feel good. I'm not doing it. I like to try to get really curious with my brain. Like, what's the story my brain is trying to tell me in this moment? And probably for you, it's that you're not safe, because this just feels too uncomfortable. And if you could just reassure your brain, hey, I'm safe.

And I know this is different, but I promise we won't die. And could you just, like, you know, you want to embrace your brain, like, could you come along this journey with me so we can figure this out together? But it's always a mistake to resist your brain. You want to embrace it and let it know that you're safe. What do you think? I completely agree. And it's why I do the work that I do on myself, because I know that resistance throws up problems in other areas, that you might not even know where that's coming from.

And so, yeah, suppressing them is the exact wrong thing to do, because they will come out in other areas. They'll find another way. Yeah, exactly. And then it'll be even harder to unpick because it's come out in a completely random way. Yeah, it gets louder. And so, yeah, it's. I think it's going to be really interesting. And I'm looking. I'm actually looking forward to. To just seeing how.

Recognizing how I feel in those situations. And now that I am a bit more aware, I can sit with that feeling, because before it was just a feeling, and I didn't know where it was coming from, and so I could sit with how I felt, but I didn't know why. So, yeah, it's gonna be really interesting. Feelings always come from thoughts. So whatever you're feeling, just ask yourself what you're thinking and get curious.

I wanna end with this really quick story. I was photographing a wedding one year, and I walked into this home. I mean, mansion. Okay? I just never in my life had ever seen anything like this. And I'm walking through the house, and my brain is like, oh, my gosh, you don't belong here. You don't fit in. And I was like, I hear you, but I think I could get used to this if you just give me a minute.

You know, let me have my time. And I'm walking about the house and photographing. And we went to leave for the church, and I said, may I use your restroom? And I go into the restroom. Oh, my gosh, Kerry, I couldn't figure out how to flush the toilet. This is rich people toilets. I don't know. I was, like, standing there. We have to go, like. And I'm like, I can't walk out of this bathroom without flushing this toilet.

This is insanity. And then I started to sweat, and I'm like, see, you don't belong here. You don't even know how to flush the stupid toilet. What is wrong with you? You know, it turned out to be, like, the simplest thing ever. It's a lover. You pull up, whatever, it doesn't matter. But my brain was just looking for evidence to show me that I didn't belong. I had to actively work to say, hey, like, okay, I'm not used to this.

This is new and different, but I'm still a person. I'm still valuable, and I have worth. And I talked to the bride's dad a couple minutes later at the church, and he said to me, my daughter tells me you're a mechanical engineer. And I said, I am. I went to Penn State. He said, me too. He's a mechanical engineer for. And I said, wait a minute. We're basically the same person.

Basically, except you're worth, like, a bazillion dollars, and I am not this cool. It's cool because I can fit it. You know, it was being really funny. That's how I handle my stress. And my fear is through humor. But anyway, now, I didn't know this then. Now I have the tools to look back and see, oh, I was feeling uncomfortable because I thought I didn't fit in. But when I attempted to fit in by just like, hey, I belong here, it's cool.

I did relax a little until I couldn't flush the toilet. Oh, okay. Whatever. I think what you've just said resonates with me, because if you think a certain way, you will always find evidence. That's right. And you will act based on that thought. If you're thinking that you don't fit in, you're an outsider. You're this geeky little girl and all of these things. Your brain is your thoughts become your results, and it will show you that habit.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy every single time. So how could we use this in our favor? Well, your model with the commercial clients is a perfect example of that. You feel like you fit in. You want to help. It's very genuine. It's all good, all of these things. And then in your result line is money in the bank. You see in your results evidence to support your thoughts.

This is like, sometimes it's disturbing and interesting, but it's actually very empowering because if that's true, and in this episode we have proven that it is, then this is great news, because all I have to do is change my thoughts and I'll have a different result. Okay. I can do that. I can work on my brain. It's just that every day it's going to offer you garbage, and you have to, you know, pay attention.

That's all. I think that's exactly it. It's paying. Paying attention. And that's why I meditate, because it helps me be aware of my thoughts. It helps me stop the cycle that I tend to get into because I'm aware of it. It's like, oh, there we go again. Exactly. Thank you so much for sharing all of this. I know that. I'm certain that everybody listening found it very useful.

Yeah. Thank you, Kerry, for being so open and honest and vulnerable and diving into this with us today. Well, thank you for unpicking a massive block that I've had for 45 years. 45 years. You know, I always tell people in coaching, like, what would it be worth to you to clear something, you know, from four decades ago? Like, coaching to me, is just priceless. Like, that's just in.

This is, you know, a 40 minutes conversation. I've had 20 minutes conversations with people that shift everything. I just can't say this enough. Everybody needs a coach, period. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, you guys. So good. I hope you really enjoyed this episode. I know I certainly did. And we can't wait to hear what Kerry's results are from her next couple private clients that she ends up having. So good.

So thanks again, everybody joining us, and we will see you next week.