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Tell me what you liked about this episode!
Thanks for tuning in, till next time! 👋
Connect with Mireya Pérez, Host
www.brandtheinterpreter.com
Facebook
LinkedIn
Instagram
Welcome to Brand the Interpreter, the podcast for language professionals around the world. It's about time. By the way, it's 75 years. I've been the same old, same old, day in and day out.
Intro:There was the Bernie Sanders event, where we both interpreted from behind the bar.
Intro:Wait, really.
Intro:I say go for it. I second that your new drive time podcast Brand the Inter.
Intro:Second that your new Drive Time podcast Brand the interpreter your stories are profession.
Intro:Hey, thanks for tuning in.
Hook:Once during the war on Ukraine, maybe the first week or the first 10 days of war, there was a piece that was absolutely crushing, that was terrible, and it was a father that learned that his wife and two children had died in an explosion. And he learned that seeing a picture on social media.
Hook:Welcome back to a brand new season, season seven of Brand. The Interpreter. This is Mireya, your host, and I am so excited to be able to repeat these words and even more so excited that you are here joining me. If you are new here, welcome. I very much hope that today's episode is enjoyable and that perhaps it inspires you to listen to previous episodes of all the great guests that have been on the show since the beginning of this podcast. If you are a returning listener, thank you. Thank you for your continuous support. Thank you for the messages that came through asking if I was going to come back.
Hook:I think for any content creator, regardless of the size of our platforms, whether you are somebody that has a huge following or someone that has a very close knit following, it makes a difference to know that individuals are actually not only in support of your work, to know that individuals are actually not only in support of your work but look forward to your work. So thank you for being supportive of this podcast. I had other individuals that said I've caught up with all your episodes. I was behind and now I'm caught up and ready for more. So here it is, here's more. Take just about a minute to sort of give you what was going on, an idea of what was going on behind the scenes, just so you know why there was a delay or what occurred, in case you're curious. So in the beginning of the year, right before I was getting ready to launch, I lost my voice, an experience I had never had, not to this level at least, where I had little to no voice for over a month, and that was the very first time I've ever experienced that. And in conversations quote unquote conversations with someone, they had mentioned that sometimes there is reason why our bodies do what they do and we've talked about this on the platform as well in terms of being able to pause long enough to identify some of these signs that we get in, perhaps in response to what we're going through.
Hook:And indeed, at the time I was going through some changes, both personal that I moved from the West Coast to the East Coast, which was a very drastic move, very sudden move for a variety of reasons, but it was a very sudden move, something I did not have planned. So that in and of itself was a drastic change. There was also professional changes the onset of a new responsibility, of a new role and then a new project that came my way an unexpected new project and and, of course, the podcast. And so, anyway, I felt that there was a reason at that point now, especially after this individual said, especially after this individual said that could potentially be the universe's way of saying you need a pause. And so that was the unintentional pause of the podcast, because, I mean, I had no other choice, I had no voice, so I allowed myself the opportunity to really sit in that decision and saying, okay, maybe this was my forced pause. I need a pause because there was a lot of things coming at me from different angles.
Hook:Professionally, there was an opportunity for a different role that I decided that I wanted to take. I wanted to experience that in a different setting, and so, professionally, I took on a new role. But then came a brand new project, and it was going to be a pretty big project for myself, which hopefully at some point I'll be able to share more about. But that meant a very limited amount of time, and so I had to make the decision that I needed to step away from those things that I had control over, being able to step away in order for me to be fully present and and being able to take on or do the things that I really like fully, not, as they say, have fast. I want to make sure that I am doing things because I love to do them, because I want to do them and I can do them with great intention, and that's really the podcast for me. The podcast is something that I love to do and I don't want to ever get to the point where I hate it because I'm doing too much. Currently, the podcast is set up where I'm your producer, I'm your host, I'm your editor, I'm your content creator for it. Eventually hopefully soon that won't be the case, so it is very time consuming. Anyway, all that to say that I had to be intentional about the use of my time and what I was taking a part in. I still am.
Hook:I'm always very intentional in trying to say, if I'm invited to be a part of something, that that something has good merit to it, that there is something that I can contribute to it, if I'm going to contribute my time, that it's something that I can contribute to it fully, and if not, then I do decline. So, anyway, that was the two main reasons Pretty big. Like I said, one of them. There was absolutely no choice. I can't have a podcast without a voice. That would be an interesting just an interesting podcast to have without a voice and the other. It was very intentional for me to say I need to be able to step away and use my time wisely and avoid getting to the point of burnout. But it looks like now I am in a place where I can come back to it, fully embrace it. I feel like I'm just giving my podcast this big, amazing hug after not being with it for such a long time. It feels like and just really enjoying the conversations and having that feeling again of having fun while doing it and being excited to broadcast a new episode, to broadcast a new episode. So let's jump right in where we left off.
Hook:I love to start the beginning of the new seasons of the podcast with an episode that helps inspire us, that helps to remind us about the importance of the work that we do and potentially even be able to inspire us for growth. I feel like I try to bring that in in every episode, but this particular episode, I'm excited for it to be the very first, because it talks about the growth and the expansion both in personal and the professional life. And since I'm starting the start of the new season in the middle of the year, I can't believe I'm saying that it's already June. We're like halfway of the year. I can't believe I'm saying that it's already June. We're like halfway through the year. That's incredible. Anyway, I'm hoping that if you're in a bit of a slump, or maybe you are thinking about whether or not this continues to be something that you want to continue doing, or if you're just starting and are unsure, maybe, how to begin, maybe this episode will help re-inspire you into continuing in this profession or maybe even expanding in the profession. So let's continue where we left off.
Hook:Today's episode brings us Denise Bobadilla, a Portuguese conference interpreter that specializes in broadcast interpreting. We had a wonderful conversation about her experiences, of course, as an interpreter, but also her experiences in journalism, and how these two worlds collided with each other and sort of fused and have helped her to be in the place where she currently is as a conference interpreter broadcasting live events. But of course, as per usual with my conversations with the guests on the show, we not only talk about interpreting. We also spoke, in Denise's case, about the imposter syndrome. We spoke about situations in which we have to make a decision, and these decisions ultimately lead to personal or professional growth the expansion moment, if you will. She shares with us impactful stories of her day-to-day as a broadcast interpreter, particularly for CNN, and we delve into all kinds of other topics, of course. So, without further ado, please welcome Denise Bobadia to the show. Denise, it is a pleasure to have you here on this new season of Brand the Interpreter Welcome.
Hook:It's a pleasure and an honor to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Denise. Would you share with the audience where you're joining us from today?
Speaker 1:Today I'm in a city called Ubatuba, which is just on the beach here and in the state of Sao Paulo, but I live in Sao Paulo, so it's a beautiful day here.
Speaker 2:It's autumn, but it's hot and it's a beautiful day, amazing, joining us all the way from Brazil. Denise, would you mind sharing with us a little bit more about little Denise, sharing perhaps with us a fond childhood memory of where you grew up?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm from a working class city in the outskirts of Sao Paulo and my mom is a teacher, was a teacher. She's retired. My father was an accountant. He died very early. I was 10 when he died.
Speaker 1:I have an older brother and a younger sister and we had a very family-closed, neat environment.
Speaker 1:We used to go to the countryside to visit relatives and I developed my passion for the English language very early because I liked to listen to music uh, the beatles or pop music. And then I went to rock music and when I was 13 I guess, I I was completely crazy about the smiths, the british band, and I started translating their lyrics and I was some sort of a reference during my high school years as someone who knew everything about music and etc. And then I studied journalism, I became a journalist, a journalist, and when I graduated and I was already working in the market. But I decided to move to London for a while to live the music, so to speak, and to, as I call at the time, to finish my English studies and I realized that I would never, ever finish. It's a work in progress throughout my whole life but it was a fantastic time to live there and a fantastic time for music too. Today. I'm not so tuned in music as I was, but I think that's what drove me back then.
Speaker 2:So what was it about journalism? You think that caught your attention to the point that you wanted to pursue it as a career.
Speaker 1:I like to write and I think I'm a good writer. I like to make storytelling of everything and that's one of the aspects. But I'm also very connected to world events and I I've been always like that my whole life. So once I said I think I was at the very beginning of my career that my dream job would be to to win the lottery, and spent my life going to different places worldwide covering issues from election in Japan to a big festival in the US and etc. And just going covering and writing articles. It was sort of a crazy job because it was about working, but it was. It is something that is very dear to my heart and, funnily enough, here I am today working with a word events, breaking news, et cetera.
Speaker 2:I won't tell anyone, but did you win the lotto?
Speaker 1:No, never. So that dream is still pending. Not the money part, not the money part, not the money part. I think I go today, I go everywhere while working, but on my screen, only Through my screen, I would say yeah, many of us can relate to that.
Speaker 2:Denise, share with us a memory you treasure from London, once you made your way out of your hometown, out of your home country and into this we can call brand new world. Is there something that you vividly remember?
Speaker 1:Ah, so many. There are so many experiences. I think I lived there for over two years and I was never tired of exploring the city. Someone once told me well, why didn't you travel to I don't know, to Thailand or to Eastern Europe or whatever? I said no, I had everything in London. I was absolutely in love with the city, absolutely in love with the musical scene and the friends that I had there. But it was tough. I was away from my family, I could not work properly or could not apply for a master's or something or another degree because it would be very expensive for me. So but when I was there, I worked as a journalist for some Brazilian outlets and the exchange rate was very good at the time for Brazilian reais and British pounds, so the money was worth it. And then the inflation came and the scenario today is totally different. But at the time I was very lucky to live there and I could work for Brazilian outlets and live there quite comfortably for a Brazilian immigrant.
Speaker 2:You're there for a couple of years finishing your studies, and then do you go back home or do you travel elsewhere after that.
Speaker 1:No, no. I just came back to Brazil and I restarted my career as a journalist and I took a different path. Before I went to England, I used to work in a daily outlet, working mostly with police and city issues and city issues, and then I started working with tourism and more fancy stuff. So I had experience all around in journalism, except for sports Not my cup, not your cup of tea.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no after having experienced so many different sectors in journalism, had you developed a favorite uh sector or one that you appreciated more?
Speaker 1:uh, music, I I music and cinema movies. Um, at the time the, the main bra outlet called Folha de São Paulo had a correspondent in the city but he was very tuned into politics and economy and the economy and world events and he was not at all concerned with cultural affairs. So as a freelancer I got the assignments for everything that was happening in London at the time and it was a very fruitful time the late 90s and I started translating there too, because the outlet had an agreement with the independent and I could translate as many articles as they would like to. So that's where my parallel career started as a translator at that time.
Speaker 2:And thus begins your journey into the language services sector, without you knowing, of course, at this point, because it's at an ad hoc basis.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So that was translation. When were you asked to interpret for the first time that you recall, in a situation where you really said, wow, that was actually a lot more challenging than I had imagined.
Speaker 1:Actually, I hadn't had any experience in interpreting before I realized that I could be an interpreter. And it was quite shocking because I was looking for a different path for my career, because in the early 10s, journalism was in a very poor situation and my husband is also a journalist and we have two kids and I was just looking for something else to do because I realized that it wouldn't last to be able to live out of journalism for longer. But then I read about a training for interpreters and I was surprised because I thought that interpreting was like a given, a gift that ones had, like being a soprano, like being a marathonist, and none of these three would require to have a gift from god. You can train to be a marathonist, you can train to be a soprano and you can train to be an interpreter. And so I start studying the topic and then I start connecting all the dots in my head about all the interpreters that I met during my life. That's, of course, denise, that's feasible. And so I start studying.
Speaker 1:I took the best course in Brazil. We invested a lot in that, but I took the best course in Brazil for interpreters, which is a two year training, very intense, called Alumni Brazil for Interpreters, which is a two-year training, very intense, called Alumni, and also another training that was a year long in the city of Curitiba, but in specific weekends, not the whole year. So I studied a lot and I study a lot too today. I take at least two trainings per year one long, one shorter depending on the year, and so that was that. That was in 2015. I started at Lumini course in 2015 and finished in 2016. And I started working in 2016 with the general market, the private market for business, corporate pharmacy, mining, legal you name it. So the corporate market is and even some medicine assignments too.
Speaker 2:Your specialty in interpreting is conference interpreting. Is that correct? Yes, yes. What was that first experience like for you, going out into the field, now taking on your first gig, your first assignment as a trained interpreter? How did you prepare or how did you see yourself within the context of?
Speaker 1:going into it as a trained professional interpreter. Experience during the courses that I, that I that I took at the time, the real deal was absolutely tiring and it was. It was an area that I'm trained, which is it was a corporate communications event today, they think, very long one with my business partner. She was then a friend, but we, from then, we started developing a relationship and today she's my business partner and and it was also her first gig too, and I remember that when I, when I, when I arrived at home, I was I don't know a few meters away from my family and they were talking over dinner or something, my husband and my children and I started listening to them. I think is it English or Portuguese what they are saying? Am I translating? And they're, of course they're speaking in Portuguese. It was dinner, but my mind was in Portuguese. It was dinner, but my mind was, I don't know, it was a mess.
Speaker 2:Ah yes, the mind of the interpreter right, and it had not shut off yet after an assignment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we are always trying to find this. What is this sound coming from? What is this language? Come on, denise, it's just a normal conversation, don't worry. And that was it. It was the word that I take from that, too, today is it was tiring, it was tiring, yes, yes, all the preparation and then, of course, the work itself, and then the aftermath.
Speaker 2:right, your brain continues to move forward. But in terms of that first assignment and you, as a trained interpreter, now being able to make a connection with the profession, do you recall thinking this? Is it or was it more like what did I get myself into?
Speaker 1:Definitely I was, I was, I thought that I was, although I was tired, I was ready and it was exciting and it was. I felt so happy. I felt so happy and I was after at the time, nearly two years, because I was still training. I felt I it was the right decision at the right time. I had the best colleagues during my training. Well, my business partner works with me too today and I met her. I met her during the training. So, yeah, it was fulfilling. I was absolutely happy.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's wonderful. Talk to us now a little bit about what you feel, now that you've been in the field for a number of years. What you feel to date was that significant interpreting assignment or assignments that help to take your interpreting career to the next level, to take your interpreting career to the next level.
Speaker 1:There are so many, I could not say just one. I had a client for one year in 2017-18. He was the CEO of a pharmaceutical company in the US and he was trying to open market for his business in Brazil and I was his interpreter all over the country and it was challenging. It was fun too, but it was challenging because I had meetings and I had all the personal. But it was challenging because I had meetings and I had all the personal things to deal with and I had to read the room of the possible business partners that he was having conversations with and it was a very although it was a very tense scenario. It was also very relaxing because we are close. I had a Brazilian businesswoman who hired me and we are always the three of us and all the partners having all these meetings and in beautiful places all over Brazil, so I went to fantastic hotels and restaurants.
Speaker 2:Brazil. So I went to fantastic hotels and restaurants and so it was quite an experience. Have you found that, in your work as an interpreter, your experiences as a journalist or in journalism have come into your work as an interpreter Meaning? Have you found that, thanks to those experiences, it has supported you as an interpreter?
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, definitely. I think we, as a journalist, we developed what we call an editor mindset, so we are always editing what's going on in terms of words, in terms of facts, in terms of realities that are developing around us. So this is very important because, as interpreters, we are communicators. Too important because, as interpreters, we are communicators. We have to learn how to best say something or to convey a message in a way that will speak to the audience. And as journalists, as I told you before, I worked in different areas in journalism, from police and crime and the most impoverished areas in Sao Paulo to the VIP travel luxury side of it. So I learned how to write for both audiences for both audiences. And when we are interpreting, we have to take care of our register to talk to the audience in a way that they will get the message as clear as possible. So this editor in mind helped me all my life in all areas as a translator, as an interpreter, as a mother, as a businesswoman.
Speaker 2:So it's all around their quote-unquote past lives is that we identify very many times a meeting point between that past life, or those past experiences, and your current life as an interpreter. Share with us now how you got into interpreting for breaking news or live broadcasting on television.
Speaker 1:Well, as a journalist with a 20-year career experience, I developed a lot of relationships, a lot of relationships, and one of the clients the first client that I had the corporate communication event that I mentioned was a fellow from journalist that I met years ago and I told him well, I'm an interpreter now and if you had anything and he offered me my first assignment and I had this approach with several colleagues, several journalists, and when CNN was starting its operation in Brazil not streaming, not broadcasting, sorry, but starting to hire people and to have this word around that they would soon be on air I spoke with some colleagues and I decided that it was something that I would like to do and I would fight for it and I did. We did, my partner and I. We went there, we took tests and we had meetings and we studied a lot for all the tests and then they choose us and it was 2020. Was february 2020? The first yes, and the first the?
Speaker 1:The day that the first day on cnn was march 15, 2020, and my first TV interpretation on there was a debate between Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden. It was the Democratic Party debate on that day and from then on, we just started covering COVID-19, the pandemic and all the issues in politics and the US elections. And since it was the pandemic year the worst of the pandemic 2020 and 2021, but also the first year of CNN Brazil we had to go in person and it was scary. All the safety protocols and all the health protocols and not knowing what. You never know if you're going to be able to be there in one day or two, and then you learn that someone in the technical department was suffering from COVID somewhere, or an anchor or reporter, and it was very tense. And sometimes we since they were also, they were just beginning sometimes we spent long hours working in topics that they would not cover today with the same strength that they covered at that time, because they were learning too. It was amazing. It was amazing.
Speaker 2:I like how you said we decided to just go for it. I feel that at this point in my life, I have learned that those are the moments of growth, of expansion, whether that be professionally or personally. Decide to go after whatever that may be, in spite of the fear, in spite of the potential belief that it's unreachable, that those are the moments we grow. What do you feel that particular experience taught you? When you said I want to fight for it, let's just do it? What do you believe it's taught you?
Speaker 1:It was risky, but I thought it was so natural. And then when I took that to some other interpreters, they told me you are crazy. I would never do something like that. I would never be so exposed or so in an environment that you never know what's going to happen. You know, without proper preparation, you are crazy. And I thought, well, maybe I am. And I would say that I'm a risky person and I don't care. I take risks and I know the challenges, but I know also that the rewards that I can get from that. I think it was worthwhile to just go. And Natalie, my business partner, she was also very into it and she was never, never scared.
Speaker 1:And in this first assignments, from the very beginning, we learned that there was never going to be a due moment and preparation was probably out of our scope, because one day we are, uh, you're scheduled to, maybe trump, donald trump, who was the president at the time, would have a statement or immigration, something like that. And then all of a sudden, uh, there was an earthquake somewhere and we'd have to shift our minds and start building a new vocab on an earthquake, on disasters. On this part of it wasn't Turkey, turkey is recent, but I would say Turkey and this part of Turkey and the name of the cities and everything in one second. We learned from that time, from that first year, because things were developing very quickly.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and I feel that I mean that's sometimes, in essence, what has to happen if we're going to expand on anything is number one take that risk, because I think that that's the threshold, potentially, that's keeping us where we're at and have the ability to grow and expand. We take that risk and then take on the challenges that come with that risk in order for us to grow. So it's not just about taking the risk and all is well. It's about then knowing how now to navigate those particular challenges. In your specific experience, it was about taking that leap. And did you have to knock on the door for this experience? Or was this an opportunity that was open and you said I'm going to decide, I'm going to, I'm going to decide to go for it? Do you recall? Is it something that they didn't know they needed and you went, sort of hypothetically speaking? You went knocking on the door and said, hey, you might need some interpreters.
Speaker 1:Both. Both because, uh, I read about their, their, uh, their operations in Brazil from the very start, so I was there. I say, hey, you're going to need interpreters. Oh, yes, maybe, but that's a good idea. And then later they say, oh, remember, they told us what about you, come here and we have a meeting? What about you, come here and we have a meeting, and what about we test you and test all these interpreters too? And then I think it was worth this first approach definitely.
Speaker 2:Most definitely, and I think that serves as for any freelancers that are listening. You know that that's sometimes what it takes, and when we, when we think about it and think about, did the opportunity come knocking at your door or did you go knocking at the, at the, at the opportunities door? And in this case, yes, you're right, it was both. However, you did sort of say I'm here, right, this is who I am and I'm here is most successful.
Speaker 1:It's about how I changed my career after 40, because I started this process when I was I'm 51. Today I was 44, 43. And so I wrote about it and one of the main topics was you have to reach out for those who worked with you in your previous careers. Maybe you are not close to them, it doesn't matter. You just go there and say, hi, remember me, I don't care if you don't, but I'm an interpreter now, or I'm a dentist now, whatever. And if you, maybe I know that your business does this and that and interpreters are necessary for this and that situation in your business. So maybe we can I don't know. I can send you some things or you can even talk whatever. Some things or you can even talk whatever, and I had my first clients from that approach and I think it works beautifully, in whichever area you are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like you know, I see that very predominantly in, at least here in the States, our real estate agents, where they're always saying you know, or that you're in real estate, so they tell them to share with everyone that they know just you know, in the event that they might need to purchase a home. And then, of course, they're always consistently asking for that referral from you if you were their client. And I feel like that should be absolutely the same approach, especially if you are freelancing is being able to tell the world what you do. And I love how, in the beginning, you did say the the my initial mentality, but it was just like a by default, a given. That's just something that you do if you're by, you know bilingual, if you know two languages or more, that you write default and interpreter.
Speaker 2:And I think it's important that we also recognize that. If we think that before we actually get involved in what the profession is actually like and the amount of training that goes behind it, imagine other individuals and their lack of understanding of what a true professional interpreter has to go through or what it requires so for us to be able to say, hey, I went through training and this is what I do now. Think about that, Should you ever need someone or should you ever hear someone? And it does go a long way, You're absolutely right, Because it plants the seed just in thinking wait a minute, I do know someone actually. And then the referral, such as your corporate connection that you had in the beginning. Right, they ended up meeting someone.
Speaker 1:And I have a trainer which is also a friend. She always says this and whenever someone can approach you to say oh, your profession is so beautiful, I cannot imagine how you do that. It's like magic, because you are listening and talking at the same time and thinking and we have to stress, it's training. It's not a gift. It's not something that I was all of this world gifted for that. It's training. It's about taking this very seriously, as you do in other professions. It's about training, it's about commitment and it's about training.
Speaker 2:I love that. That's so true. It's like any other profession. It's about training and commitment.
Speaker 2:You've had to interpret live now since that experience with CNN and you've mentioned a couple of pretty I feel would be pretty impactful just type of interpreting encounters, and it's impactful for any interpreter, given that you might have an encounter like that every so often, an impactful encounter in which maybe the news that is being shared or the topic is pretty sensitive.
Speaker 2:But I think that when you are live, let's say you're broadcasting live and for a news broadcaster, out of all things, particularly in very specific moments in time, that can be very often that type of topic and theme can be quite often. So I'd like to transition now into the conversation of your particular experience with broadcasting live, but broadcasting with some of these very sensitive and just high pressure environments beginning with COVID-19, because you begin not to say that it's your first assignment simultaneous, but it's your first assignment of continuous assignments and live broadcasting with something as sensitive as health and we all know everything that came for quite some time, one thing after another. Tell me what that experience was like and then bring us to present day and what it is that you're currently having to interpret when you're broadcasting and how that has impacted your work and potentially even yourself as an interpreter, as a professional, I would say that the most challenging aspect of covering the pandemic for broadcasting was that we are living the situation.
Speaker 1:We are all living that. When I started interpreting the situation in Gaza or in the Ukraine, or an earthquake or a mass shooting, I'm detached. It can be absolutely crushing, but I'm detached While when we were covering the pandemic, every time we had a breakthrough in science or new numbers that were shocking, that was affecting all of us. So when we mentioned that maybe a possibility of a medicine was not right or the vaccine that we're waiting would take another year to be developed or something like that, it was something that I was translating and at the same time, I was feeling and I had to learn how to focus on the message and consider the impact later and I think I learned how to do that during the pandemic and not thinking about what I was translating Just go, just go.
Speaker 1:And this was helpful in more stressful situations that came later, such as the war coverage, the Gulf Wars and the withdrawal from Afghanistan, which was very traumatic Because, although I was not there, anything could happen in one second in front of my eyes in a huge screen that I had in front of my eyes, so I was just focusing on words and just go and you may think about that later or you just don't have to think about that later. Just do your job, just interpret, just be truthful and stick to the facts, and that's it.
Speaker 2:Do you feel that, in a way, the journalism component also came in and supported you during these particular moments in time as an?
Speaker 1:interpreter in situations of violence, of loss, and I had to deal with that in person and I had to deal with then asking questions, not using someone else's words but pressuring for the words using my words, and it was difficult and I was young and I was ready to, you know, to just go and later I would say that after I became a mother, I would never, I would never do what I did as a journalist at the beginning, working with mass shooting, violence and everything that I had to at that time, because when you, when you have a child, you just can't sleep after seeing something that some, some things that I, that I watched in person. But as an interpreter, it's different.
Speaker 2:At the beginning of our conversation you mentioned, uh, uh, a moment that I think we can all relate as interpreters, which is the inability to sometimes shut off your interpreting brain right, just trying to just distinguish the languages. And how would you say that into the other language? How do you disconnect, if at all, from experiences of such high pressure, to make that disconnection after you walk away? Because at the end of the day, we are human and it's really difficult, particularly, I find, with the interpreting brain, to really make that disconnection. What do you do personally to ensure that yourself is taken care of, after having consistently been a part of content that can be pretty impactful, I would say, at times?
Speaker 1:that can be pretty impactful, I would say at times. Well, it's strange, but I don't have any specific tool for that. I'm a very privileged person in the sense that I live in a green area, I'm surrounded by nature, I live in the outskirts of the city, in the green belt of Sao Paulo. I'm not rich far far from that but my house is surrounded by trees and that's rich, and so this connection with nature, with my family, helps me and I work out a lot too, and I think endorphin it's powerful. But I don't have any specific tool to deal with secondary trauma. I should, but I shouldn't, because I just turn off and turn on and I work and I stopped, and then I look at my surroundings and let's go, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, that's great. I actually feel that, perhaps unbeknownst or maybe not intentional, but the being surrounded by beautiful green nature is quite powerful, absolutely, and I completely agree that physical activity and the endorphins that that produces, I'm certain that's quite helpful too. So, perhaps not thinking about it, oh, I have to go out into nature, I have to go exercise in order to get this out of my mind. Maybe it's just the fact that it's it's a common practice for you that that may be potentially what is helping you, at least for your mind, not to dwell on some of these topics, because we've heard many interpreter experiences, heard many interpreter experiences. Vicarious trauma is a real thing for many, many in the field, and so I appreciate you even having shared that, and it's I feel many people do talk about taking long walks in nature, and that's in any profession, that's with anything, just on being able to deal with stress. So, so that that's great. Surround yourself with nature and include some physical activity and listen to the silence.
Speaker 1:the crickets and the birds and the, the eventual you know someone shouting somewhere or something, but just tune into this, this silence, this is. This is good. I like that. Tune into this silence. This is good.
Speaker 2:I like that Tune into the silence and then you hear things that you don't typically would hear in your day-to-day, unless you pause and intentionally quiet that mind and just you do. It's like the crickets. That would be something like background noise that you never pay attention to. But if you sort of calm yourself a little bit without having to be so much in your mind, you have the ability to suddenly hear things that you're like hey, has that always been in the background?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and something that I just realized is that I like to wake up very early, about 5 am. Well, I have to drive my daughter to school, so I have to wake up early anyway, but I enjoy that. The silence of the morning, the first rays of light and the realization of the day coming. That's very therapeutic.
Speaker 2:Very therapeutic. Yes, absolutely, Denise. What would you say your craft means to you In this case, now that you've had the opportunity of so many years of working in this profession, of identifying that it is a craft that you develop through the years of practice, of continuous training, continuous improvement? What do you feel this means to you and I think, even if we could make the connection now, at this stage of your life, because I love that you shared at one point making this transition, sort of you know what's the next chapter in my life and being able to have the courage to make that transition what does this craft mean to you now, my thoughts.
Speaker 1:I think I like to tell stories and I like to convey messages and I like to make people connect with themselves. And I used to say that I'm a matchmaker for friends, not in the romantic sense, but I have this position for that, uh, for that assignment, and I, I love this and, as an interpreter, I think I'm I'm always conveying messages, uh, and doing this match making of people, uh, learning something new that they maybe they didn't, they didn't even know that they were in need for that, but I was the messenger, I was the, you know, on broadcast. I can do that because we are very exposed. So sometimes people reach me on social media and say that thank you for doing that, because I would not know what's going on there without your voice. And I said, no, that's not true. You have newspapers and you have social media and you have all the methods to learn that.
Speaker 1:And then I said, no, denise, take that, Take that, that's true. You are saying live, what's going on. It's not you, it's your voice, but it is you. You have to choose how to say that to a Brazilian audience in a way that can relate to them, that can relate to them and in a way that even the most standard viewer of the of the network will understand, because you are using simpler words for sometimes complicated stuff, and that's when my editor mind enters and solve, and so it's a long answer, but I think it's all connected this need to to convey message in order to connect people among them and make this, make the world better in a way. In a very small, it's a very, very tiny part of it, but I think I'm doing something to improve people's lives somehow huge.
Speaker 2:Without that message Many decisions would would not be made perhaps, or information with perhaps simply may not be received.
Speaker 2:And I really liked the, the fact that you sort of recognize that it's okay to receive that feedback or receive that positive you know just feedback as an individual and be able to say yes, because I think it acknowledges, for one, the work that you've put into this craft. And, number two, it acknowledges the craft itself that many individuals perhaps again to. It acknowledges the craft itself that many individuals perhaps again may not recognize because you're so behind the scenes, but if they hear your voice, even sometimes just by the sound of your voice, it's like okay, I know that I'm going to receive the information that I'm seeking just by the sound of your voice. So I like that moment very much. And then I think it's a learning moment for us here as well, being able to recognize that it's important that when someone says thank you, that that really is their way of recognizing what you do and that it's important that we're open to that or that we make ourselves open to receiving that Thank you. Is that Take it yeah?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's important because there's hate too, and people, while while I'm on air, people saying, oh, this is awful, this is horrible. How can she say that? Oh, bad translation Things that you on YouTube, you are exposed to that because they bad translation Things. That you on YouTube, you are exposed to that because they broadcast on YouTube too and you are translating and sometimes you just it's just in the corner of your eyes and I said, no, this is not affecting me, I know it's. They would say they hate anything that would come because it's part of social media and so I would better take this thank yous that sometimes I receive and I have to ignore this haters, because the haters are going to hate anything.
Speaker 2:Exactly. I have just a couple of questions left for you before the close of today's episode, denise, and one of them is even throughout the years of experience that you've now had, and all of the different encounters of interpreting, encounters that you've experienced as a professional interpreter, do you continue to have some sort of imposter syndrome to this day, and if so, what is that?
Speaker 1:Every single second, especially when it comes to my delivery in English. I feel very insecure about it. I'm always correcting myself on verb tenses, prepositions, blah, blah, blah. And then I I'm working with that in therapy and I'm thinking well, the message is there, denise, calm down, calm down. And sometimes I, when I finish a very important assignment, I say wow, someone would do this so much better, so much better than I just did. And I say well, but that I was there and that was it. I cannot change that.
Speaker 2:But definitely, yes, imposter syndrome walks with me every day, every day what is something that you've learned from therapy that has supported you with that particular topic that you would be able to share with anyone that is listening, that is also that also feels the same way.
Speaker 1:My therapist. She's amazing. She says, denise, would you be there until today If you were that bad? Would you be called by so many clients? Would you be cherished by your peers? Or you'll be invited to speak in a podcast like yours. And if you were that bad, really can you? Can you? Can you really look in the mirror and say I'm, I'm awful, I'm terrible with this, uh, with with all this that you build? Consider that. And so every time that imposter syndrome knocks my door, I try to calm down. This is a side of you that is trying to push you down. But remember, you were invited for a reason. You are here for a reason. You would not be here if you didn't prove that you can do that.
Speaker 2:I love that Such great piece of advice. She's amazing. Oh yes absolutely, it sounds like she is and I'm hoping that that piece of advice is also going to be able to support and help anyone else that is listening with that same thought process, present day person. Say to the Denise that had just started as some advice Keep studying, keep studying very hard.
Speaker 1:It's a never ending task, it's for life. When I went to London, when I went to something and I said I had to finish my English, it was an illusion. And this is something that fits all areas, not only my English, but my interpreting skills, my investigative and journalistic skills. So keep studying, so keep studying, just keep studying. And take risks. Yes, take risks, take bold risks, safely, of course. Do not risk your life, your health or your assets or anything like that. But if you have two doors and one that you say, well, maybe I'm not sure, go and try, of course, without harming your client. You know, if you're not prepared for medicine, do not take an assignment in medicine, you know. But take risks and you'll see that it's worth the rush that you feel.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's such great advice. I love that you've had the connections that you made throughout your previous career and how that sort of bridged over into your new career has supported you, has expanded you, and I feel that that goes for anyone. So, even if you are thinking that one thing does not relate to the other, honestly I feel like everything is always connected somehow, and especially if, like Denise said, you have two doors and you feel just this n right, as long as it's not harmful to you or others, health-wise, of course, that that is your little nudge there that is telling you to take that risk. Denise, if there is something, a story, that you would like to share at this point in time, just any story about your career what would that be for this particular audience?
Speaker 1:I have a difficult one that I left as an interpreter because people always ask me what was the most difficult assignment that you had, most difficult piece that you have to translate on TV? And once, during the war on Ukraine, maybe the first week or the first 10 days of war, there was a piece that was absolutely crushing, that was terrible, and I had watched that piece before because on CNN some reports go on air several times a day, as in any newscast, and so I knew what was coming. And it was a father that learned that his wife and two children had died in an explosion and he learned that seeing a picture on social media, because they were trying to live, I think, with Kiev, they are trying to leave the city, and they were using this sort of pieces of luggage and they separated. He saw a picture of the pieces of luggage and he recognized that and and the report had pictures of this family vacationing and they were the same age, the children, the same age as my children, and and the anchor she was, she was destroyed TV I had to translate her, she was destroyed, crying and crying with the pictures and everything. And then, the first time that this report went on air. I told the editor this was devastating, it was terrible, and he said yes, and then half an hour later he said Denise, we are going to broadcast that. You have to translate it.
Speaker 1:And at the time I had a booth partner with me, renato, and I said, Renato, we'll have to do that part. So I had a, my computer, I, I went to YouTube, put some cat videos, a very long one. I love cat videos, they are very relaxing and so I I went. When, when the the piece started started, I was listening to the report but looking at the cats and looking at cats doing some messy stuff, and I went so I could go for that. I don't know, maybe four, five, six minutes. And when it finished I was shaking, I could not speak anymore, my throat was closed and I took five minutes coffee and half an hour later was working again and that was it. But it was the piece of material that I had to deal differently. I knew it would be devastating and cats are very helpful.
Speaker 2:Yes, I knew there had to be some sort of maybe technique that you use, even though it may not be something you consciously think about, but I think that there are some things that we can absolutely do to prepare. In this case it was before, because it knew it was coming. Thankfully, you knew it was coming. If we could be grateful for something so that you could put together something to mentally prepare for that impact, if you would. So thank you for sharing that story. I think these are the stories that truly make our profession in addition to everything else, but you know, there's real people behind that story and there's real emotions behind these stories, which is what is so unique about our profession and so lovely about it. I definitely think that you are the messenger matchmaker Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And I want to thank you so very much for the opportunity to be here today with this audience, and it's been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 1:Thank you, it was such an amazing conversation. It went to different parts and it was so rich and thank you so much for having me. Thank you Sorry about my English and thank you.