Dwarfism Awareness with Sofiya Cheyenne & Nic Novicki

There are 200 types of Dwarfism in the world, Sofiya, Nic and their spouses ironically all have different forms and share with us their challenges as new parents and their extensive body of work in and out of the theater.  Listen in to hear more for Dwarfism Awareness Month.

To find out more about our guest, visit these links:
Website: https://www.sofiyacheyenne.com/         https://www.nicnovicki.com/
Easter Seals Film Challenge: https://disabilityfilmchallenge.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sofiyacheyenne/      https://www.instagram.com/nicnovicki/
Twitter: @SofiyaCheyenne   @NicNovicki
Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/SofiyaCheyenne    https://www.facebook.com/nic.novicki

Want to be a guest on our show?  Connect with us at:
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Transcript

Intro: 0:03

Welcome to DisAbility Talks, a podcast produced by Abilities in Motion. I'm your host, Shelly Houser. Join us for real conversations and no nonsense talk from everyday people with disabilities,l iving their most independent everyday lives. Tune in for the latest news surrounding disability, accessibility and independence. Where conversations aren't dissed and stories that need to be told aren't missed. So let's talk.

Shelly: 0:30

Welcome back to DisAbility Talks. I'm your host, Shelly Houser and today's guests are actors, producers, comedians, advocates, educators, and parents. And they're here to give us a little look into their great big world. Please welcome to our studio, Sophia Cheyenne, and Nic Novicki.

Sofiya: 0:47

So excited to be here.

Nic: 0:49

Hey, it's great that, you know, that's the first time I'm a newer parent, than Sofiya, but that's the first time I've had credits and then and parents in the same kind of thing.

Shelly: 1:01

So you're a little, you're a little guy, right? You have a little boy?

Nic: 1:03

U h, no, I have a daughter and Sophia has a, has a boy.

Shelly: 1:09

So Sophia your son is a little over a year?

Sofiya: 1:12

That's right. My son's name is Logan and he's 14 months old now. And it's, it's really amazing to see him explore it at the house and also try and make sure that he's not going to get hurt in the process!

Shelly: 1:26

Yes, good luck with that. Yeah. And Nic, y our, your daughter is for about four months or so?

Nic: 1:31

That's right. I have a four month old daughter and, uh, she's already in the arranged marriage to Sophia's son. So....( laughter).

Shelly: 1:41

Tradition!

Sofiya: 1:45

We love the idea. We talk about it as parents all the time back and forth. Oh my gosh. They'll be friends, no matter what, f or sure!.

Nic: 1:53

Yeah, it is so fun though, to have, uh, you know, to, to go through the new parenting process with, with Sofiy a and her husband, Clint, you know, just to have that support system of people that are going through it or been through everything. And so literally my wife is literally calling Sofiya all the time and w hen should I get with this or that? And y ou k now, i t's f un.

Sofiya: 2:14

We relied on each other a lot in, throughout our pregnancies and this new parent phase. It's, it's been really nice.

Shelly: 2:22

I wanted to start off and have one or both of you explaine because I know there's different types of dwarfism, but can you explain to me what exactly for our listeners dwarfism is?

Nic: 2:33

Yeah. The, um, Sofiya cut me off if you want to jump in, but uh, you know, dwarfism, there's over 200 kinds of dwarfism. Um, and I have pseudoachondroplasia dwarfism. Uh, my wife has achondroplasia dwarfism, which is the most common, kind of dwarfism. I believe 80 something percent dwarfism is comprised by achondroplasia and then the rest of 200 kinds, you know, makes up that small population, including pseudo achondroplasia and Sophia?\

Sofiya: 3:11

Yeah. I have a rare form for short, we call it SEDC type dwarfism, but it means Spondyloepiphyseal dysplasia, congenital type dwarfism.

Nic: 3:24

You see why I wanted her to set that up? What that title was?(laughter)

Shelly: 3:30

You took the easy part of the question. Good job!( laughter)

Sofiya: 3:32

So that's my title. It does fall in that 20% where it's a more rare form. My husband has diastrophic dysplasia, which is a different form of dwarfism. And my son, our son will have, he has the same type of dwarfism as me and dwarfism. I mean, if I were to give it a definition, you know, people have short stature generally under 4'9," 4 foot nine inches is a genetic condition. So it is caused by gene differences in gene changes that happened and various genes are responsible for kind of the various types of dwarfism. So it's really fascinating once you get into like the genealogy of it, but we're very diverse community. There's so many different types of dwarfism. Um, and yeah, it's funny when Nick and his wife and my husband and I hang out, we always talk about how the four of us each have a different type of dwarfism, which is a really rare, so, um, it's super fun?

Nic: 4:34

No, it's, uh, but it is, it is really cool though, that there are so many different kinds of, of dwarfism. And actually both of us, we met our significant others at Little People of America national conferences. So there's a, uh, gathering of people that get together and do kind of social activities and also sports. So the community is able to kind of intermingle and in multiple ways.

Shelly: 5:02

What are some common stigmas, that there is about dwarfism that you guys want to set the record straight on?

Sofiya: 5:08

Well, I would, I mean, I would just start off by saying that when I was born, my parents didn't have any exposure to dwarfism. They didn't really know what dwarfism was and all they did know was Snow White and the Seven Dwarves,Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, the Wizard of Oz. And so I think when I think of stigma, I definitely think of sort of how Hollywood has played a role in that, for sure. And how there's been sort of this lack of humanity, seeing of humanity in little people and dwarfism that, you know, we are people, but a lot of times in Hollywood, we've dressed up in costume where we played these very like fantasy sorts of roles, which are awesome. And we should be able to play those too. But I think a stigma that I like I face as an artist all the time is sort of that combating with that. And just that it's, it's still okay to, to not see us as like mothers and fathers and just people.

Shelly: 6:07

Nick, what are your thoughts?

Nic: 6:09

Yeah. I mean, I think I agree with what Sofiya had to say. And I think a lot of, I would say the biggest stigma issue is just a lack of exposure. So in the history of dwarfism, we've always been seen in different areas, but I think it's, you know, dwarfism is pretty rare. I think it's one in 40,000. So growing up, I didn't see anybody that was like me. And, you know, there were so few depictions of little people in the media and I think that that's changing a lot. You're seeing, you know, Peter Dinklage. I mean really, I mean, he's, you know, won Emmys and Golden Globes and, you know, we've seen so many great three-dimensional roles of little people and, and frankly, even reality shows, you know, that would be kind of, I guess, demystified, uh, dwarfism. And so I think that there's a lot more exposure, but I think in reality, uh, the biggest stigma I think that people have is there's a big difference, you know, in reality, it's just, we're just shorter. So I think, I think that society beyond just the little people and in disability as a whole, I think that, uh, now, uh, people are just so much more open than, than I think they were in, in previous years,

Shelly: 7:34

You know, with the passing of Verne Troyer who played mini me in Austin Powers films. He, I thought he had a really great career. I thought he did a lot of things, but he didn't feel he could do like a lead action film that he wasn't getting cast for those kinds of things. Do you see the shift in Hollywood?

Nic: 7:56

Yeah, I mean, I, I dedicate the majority of my time to is I created the Disability Film Challenge, which is a film competition that helps get people with disabilities involved in the entertainment industry. I created that nine years ago, partnering with Easter Seals, the nation's largest disability services organization. And we've had hundreds of films created and countless success stories. And these are people with disabilities creating their own content, putting themselves out there. And I've seen firsthand, you know, studios, networks, producers, show runners, reaching out on a weekly basis and looking to hire people with disabilities, both in front of and behind the camera. Um, Sofiya, you know, has landed a recurring role on Loudermilk and the Farrelly brothers. And, you know, there's a lot of momentum, you know, as you said, there, between the Ruderman's between, between so many, between Coda just coming out, uh, which is, you know, one Sundance and a deaf cast. So I think society wants to see themselves represented. And then it's just leading the way for people with disabilities that want to tell their own stories too, to be creating their own content, to be, do, be putting themselves in the position to get their own opportunities. And I think then the networks and the studios are realizing that they haven't been as inclusive enough and that they're, you know, frankly, missing out on a huge demographic that wants to see themselves represented. So I think it's not just, you know, we want to do it because it's, it's the right thing to do. I think it's a smart thing to do because one, the people are winning awards through using disability centric, storylines, and two, there's just a lot of talent out there.

Sofiya: 9:45

I'm excited too. I mean, I, I definitely see a shift happening and I think that there are definitely good people in Hollywood that want to, you know, show the diversity of the world and bring people that access that they need. I think that there is a lot of fear around that acceptance and I think there's, um, that's the disconnect sometimes that's still going on, but I definitely personally know people in the industry that are really fighting for the change and truly like, you know, I always think about like the young me and now my, my son watches TV, uh, you know, these little kid shows and there are more diverse characters on these kids' shows like more than I ever had growing up, you know? Um, and, and talking about different cultures and seeing kids in wheelchairs or any sorts of diversity, that's so important. So it's happening. It's just like really slow.( laughter) But I think I do really do feel very optimistic for the future. And, um, and just to touch on really quickly about Verne Troyer and sort of like the mental health of that as I think little people and people would work in the industry do have a, you know, there's a stigma there specifically for our community. I think that, you know, we, this is my personal opinion, but I think we command a space when we're in it. Are our bodies in space really means something. And so I think that, um, sometimes that's a little too intense for the camera, you know, but it's important and it can make real impactful change.

Shelly: 11:28

Do you find that there's a mental health crisis in your community? I know I've spoken to some persons of color and they have, you know, it's taboo to talk about mental health in the black and colored communities. And do you find that it's a rampant issue in your community?

Nic: 11:47

I think, you know, to me, I think mental health is not talked about enough in general, whether you're talking about a little people, community, the disability community. So many friends of mine, you know, you talk about the quarantine, you know, uh, the pandemic still happening and people staying indoors. Those that don't have significant others there by themselves. I mean, mental health is a huge issue. That is, is a taboo subject, no matter whether you're talking about little people or people with disabilities.

Sofiya: 12:19

Yeah. I mean, I, I definitely agree. I think mental health needs to be talked more. I, I support any mental health advocate I see on the internet or people that are trying to do that work. I'm always supporting that work. It's so important. That's a stigma in and of itself, obviously. And I do, I think that our community struggles a lot in, for many reasons, like not even just those that are in the entertainment industry, but, um, sort of like what I was saying. I think that little people can be bullied a lot and mistreated a lot more so than maybe more so than other sorts of disabilities or other sorts of, um, adversities. And I think that does play a real big toll. And currently our community is struggling and going through a lot, talking about pharmaceutical companies and this weird sort of new eugenics conversation that's happening in our community, which is really tough. And I think people are having a hard time. It's an issue that isn't addressed as much as I'd like to see it addressed. But that's the case in a lot of areas when with a lot of people, like Nic said.

Shelly: 13:30

So, we could just mention it today and do our part.

Sofiya: 13:32

Exactly!( laughter).

Shelly: 13:32

What were you going to say Nic?

Nic: 13:35

No. And I think that there's something else that's interesting about dwarfism as a whole is, you know, when you talk about disability, the, the stats are according to the CDC, One in four Americans has some form of disability at 61 million Americans. And the vast majority of those disabilities are, are, you know, cognitive or invisible disabilities when it comes to being a little person, you know, there is no hiding what you are, you are, we are very much, uh, Hey, that's, uh, you know, we're out there.

Sofiya: 14:12

We're here!(laughter)

Nic: 14:12

So I think, I think that that's, that adds another layer that depending on whether you, whether you were born with uh...,

Sofiya: 14:20

a limb difference,

Nic: 14:22

Well, yeah, it does. It doesn't matter what limb difference or why, you know, you end up becoming paralyzed or wheelchair user later in life. You know, I think that with dwarfism, this is something too where it's everybody kind of copes with their disability and their differences in different ways, you know, as being a little person. I think that, you know, at times it is cool that now we're in a space in a time, you know, I think even the public are coming up and they're being more, I guess, open and curious. And, and I think that they've learned proper terminology more. And so I think that that's going to help. And so I think that that's another layer of just being a little person is, is being accepting yourself. And whether you're a little person and you have a disability or you don't, that just ends up being a big part of life.(laughter)

Shelly: 15:21

You almost have to find your sense of humor with it and find your strength. Do you think maybe that's why you guys got into comedy and acting? Cause you had to find your sense of humor in life.

Nic: 15:30

I mean, for me, a hundred percent, you know, I had my mechanism to get out of trouble. It was always to make a joke or, you know, using comedy to also disarm situations. And so I think that that's just a part of who I am. I didn't look at it like this is my career in entertainment. It was just a part of who I am as a person. And I think probably to an extent it was a, you know, deflection, uh, but, but the other part was, is just something fun to do.

Sofiya: 16:03

I totally agree. But I think it's funny in my journey. I would definitely say it was being a performer is sort of a coping mechanism for me. Um, I, I didn't realize that that's what it was until I was older as well, but I think it was just an acceptance of my body. I had, you know, a hard time with, as a kid. And so being on stage, being able to tell a story or feel a character and live, you know, through an empathetic lens in that way, just healed me and has always healed me and always made me feel more secure in my own body. Um, so I think that that's definitely been part of it being in the arts and that's sort of eventually shifted into advocacy for me because I realized, well, I'm in these spaces and people are asking questions and I need to advocate for myself. Like no one else is going to do it for me. So sort of how I've come on this journey to where I am now.

Shelly: 17:01

It is, it really is because I think if, as somebody in the disability community, it's my, my responsibility to help crush those stigmas. And this podcast is just one way that I can do it by letting you guys tell your stories and everybody else is telling their stories. So, thank you.

Sofiya: 17:17

Yeah.

Nic: 17:18

You know, I think it's important though, that you bring up t oo about this podcast and what you're doing. I mean, I think there's so much pride in disability a nd I for sure have so much pride in my dwarfism and in the community, Sofiya talked about, you know, the pharmaceutical companies and how much this is a sensitive issue. You know, I love my height and you know, my wife w ho i s also a little person and the community and Sofiya and her husband is my best f riends since we were kids. And I think there's so much beauty in our community and in disability in general. And so I think that that's something that I've seen more and more and spend something that I've focused a lot of my energy on through the film challenge and through my activism. But, you know, and then the last thing I want to say is we are different, you know, cause I know y ou w ere, you were talking about, well, this is different than my point of view and dwarfism and y ou k now, limb difference or amputee or wheelchair user a re all different. But I do feel like we're all in the same club. Like if I go into a restaurant and see somebody else who's blind o r y ou k now, or deaf or in a wheelchair and missing a leg, I'm like, there's a little bit of like a wink t here. I'm like, Hey, what's up? How you been?

Shelly: 18:42

Do we have a universal sign for,

Nic: 18:46

We should!

Shelly: 18:46

for like you see somebody else? I think we should all come up with something.

Nic: 18:51

I mean, it's, I've always felt that even as a kid, like before, you know, any of this stuff, it would just like, you just end up getting nudged together with like a family friend where like," Hey, this is my Uncle Jimmy, you guys should get to know each other!"

Sofiya: 19:06

Always.

Speaker 1: 19:08

(laughter) So let me ask you what appropriate terms are acceptable and why?

Sofiya: 19:13

That's a good question.

Nic: 19:16

Well, I think, you know, to be honest, like I think it's, you know, the, the history, uh, words change to, you know, Little People of America was founded as Midgets of America, which was the term that was used in a different generation. I don't really ever, I'm not somebody that gets offended to though. So I just kind of went along. It was announced as Little People of America and I, you know, to me, that's the accepted term, dwarfism, you know, Sofiya, I dunno. What, what do you think?

Sofiya: 19:50

I would agree? I would, I would say little person is the most universal and dwarfism is as well. I know, I know little people that don't like to be called a dwarf or dwarfism. I love that word. I am dwarf pride all the way I have dwarfism. That's what I have. But I think that word seen maybe a little more medically, which is why perhaps folks don't love it, but that is an acceptable term for sure. And so as a little person or a little people, and I just want to say that, you know, for any listeners, I know I've heard from non-disabled people, average height people."Oh, well, calling you a little person feels mean feels derogatory to me". And I'm like, I get that. I mean, I guess if that's how someone feels then sure. But at the end of the day, if that is what the community wants to be called, then that's what the community wants to be called. You know? So I think little person is acceptable. It doesn't bother us. And if it bothers other folks, you know, I think we need to investigate what that means. You know what I mean? But.

Nic: 21:00

Yeah,(laughter) Yeah, people!

Sofiya: 21:01

I don't know, you know, like I think that it's, it might be too much of a label for people that, that really identifies who we are. And I know that mistakenly someone is talking about a child and would say, oh, a little person, you know? And I think that there's a crossover there. So words aren't perfect. I always say like, call me by my name, ask me what my name is. You can't go wrong. You know? And I, and I feel like that's a great rule of thumb to follow to.

Shelly: 21:31

And with that, we're going to take a commercial break and get back after the break

AD: 21:34

Abilities in Motion is a Pennsylvania based nonprofit organization dedicated to helping individuals with disabilities live their lives on their own terms. Abilities in Motion, strides to eliminate psychological stereotypes, physical barriers, and outdated attitudes that prevent social and civic inclusion as well as promote the independent living movement to empower, educate, and advocate for individuals with disabilities. For more information about programs and services Abilities in Motion provides call 610-376- 0010, or visit our website at www.abilitiesinmotion.org.

Shelly: 22:11

Welcome back listeners. This is Shelly and I'm here with Sofiya Cheyenne and Nic Novicki as parents, advocates, educators, and comedians and producers and actors. Gosh, did I miss anything?

Sofiya: 22:22

That's a long list. It's enough!(laughter)

Shelly: 22:27

(laughter) It's not actually everything. I just gotta like cut it short because you guys are so involved in so many things. It's incredible. Sofiya. I want to start with you. You've done a lot of advocacy and a lot of education. So you were a definite hit for me to, to be on the show here. A part of you, you have two organizations that you work with and I wanted you to address those and tell us more about the work that you do in the theater and out of the theater.

Sofiya: 22:52

Absolutely. Thank you. And yes, we do. We wear many hats, Nic and I, and switching gears, even in this, in this podcast, I have, I have been doing education and advocacy work for a while. I started after college. I started out as a teaching artist and that was really the beginning of me, you know, officially being into, you know, public school system and working with kids. And from there eventually my advocacy and my dwarfism kind of blended. And then that became part of my education work as well. So I have been working with the Dwarf Artist Coalition for the last six years. I'm slowly transitioning out of that because I'm now going to be the Inclusion Director for Little People of America, which is a big, exciting, ambitious role that I'm taking on. But the work with the Artists Coalition was amazing and it started out really from nothing. It was just, just a few people gathering and it was a very dormant group of people. But the goal is to foster artists, new artists find artists that have dwarfism in the country and big goals around the world and have them connect with each other and network collaborate, create together. So we actually made a project that I ended up just calling the telephone project. Cause it's lots of, um, arts spaces do something like this, where it's just a curation of art. It can be any kind of art. It can be spoken, word poetry, it can be a dance, it can be music, singing. And we are inspired. It's like a lineup and everyone's inspired by the person before them. So there's a lineup of artists. Everyone does their work within two weeks. And by the end of it, you have this wonderful show. That's got a bunch of new pieces of work. And a lot of the work that we did in our artistry was about four or five identity and about, you know, our, how we want to be seen in the world or how we're seeing or how we feel we're perceived by the world. And I think it's been really healing and exciting for the community. Um, we've grown so much from just three people hanging with me in that first meeting to like a minimum of 50 artists now and like people about a hundred, 150 people coming to our events. So it's been fantastic and that's still very circulated within the Little People of America community, which is which isn't all of little people and it's not part of the larger disability arts community, you know? So those are big goals that I think are coming, but it's been great. And outside of that, a lot of the advocacy work I've done, I go to schools and I do talks and I actually talk about dwarfism or I talk about disability, my husband and I will do it together. And a lot of times we've done it for young kids and we'll use the children's book, I've, you know, create scenes and we like re re-enact like a bully scene. And then we talk about it and, you know, kind of dissect that a little bit. So it's really good work. It's I feel like combining my artistry and my passion for advocacy has been like the biggest gift I could have given myself. And I did it by accident. And, and so it's, it's been fantastic. And I just always want to make sure that people walk away knowing that, you know, people would dwarfism or just like anyone else and that we have different needs, but everyone does. And so it's a matter of, you know, making friends and not bullies and bringing, uh, bringing that artistry about and empowering those dwarf artists to tell their stories and shine their light. So that's, that's a lot of the work that I've done and that's the only two hats out of five.(laughter)

Shelly: 26:40

Nick you've taken on more serious roles in film and television. You've also produced numerous productions and are currently on a comedy tour right now. Tell us more about your body of work.

Nic: 26:50

Sure. So I started doing stand-up, uh, really young. That was just my first week of college, but I started as a kid doing speeches for Little People of America and for the Dwarf Athletic Association of America. And I would do kind of fundraiser speeches, but I would always start with a joke and I'd be like, you know, address the situation. You know, if there was a podium and I couldn't reach it, I would make a joke about it so that the audience would listen to me. But also I just, it would just instinctually do it. And I basically, I was doing a version of standup comedy before I knew what standup comedy was. Uh, you know, I, I started to act when I was in middle school. And the reason why I started acting was because I couldn't play sports anymore in my community. I got, you know, I'm 3"10". So I just found a new hobby and that was acting, that that was my passion and my goal. And I continued to do it, but I learned pretty early in my career that I had to be in charge of all aspects. So I had to learn how to write and produce and create my own work. If I wanted to play the roles that I wanted to play by having real, you know, I always tell people whether you have a disability or you don't, you need to be in charge of your own career. Hollywood's not waiting for you. You need to get out there and create your own projects and your own work, because this is a medium where people want to look to see what else you've done. And I think this is, this is really hard because as people with disabilities, many times, we're having a hard time at the starting point, getting those first jobs. But the more you can do on your own, the more opportunities you're going to have to where you're going to be spotted wait. Cause cause those opportunities will come up for you. You know, now with a cell phone or a DSLR camera, you can create in a way that was frankly so much harder when I started out and I was like, I needed to, you know, I'm, I'm sounding like I'm 110, but I was like,"When I shot it, there was a, you know, you had to have a big film reel!" And I, you know, but if you literally had to have a little mini tapes and it was a much tougher process to, to make your own content.

Shelly: 29:08

Explain to our listeners more about your Easter Seals Disability Film Challenge. Cause you're both involved with this.

Nic: 29:15

Yeah. So nine years ago I was looking around. I was like, why aren't more people with disabilities creating their own work? So I created the Disability Film Challenge, which is a film competition that started out as a weekend where you need to have somebody with a disability in front of, or behind the camera. And you make a film that doesn't have to do with disability. I mean, it doesn't have to be related to the storyline. You just have to have somebody with a disability in front of her, behind the camera. And really from that first time, the industry started reaching out and then the community people with disabilities were like, when is the next one? And so it kind of just started to build and build. And you know, I partnered with Easter Seals, Southern California Easter Seals is the largest disability services organization. And so it's now the Easter Seals DisabilityFilm Challenge. And we've had hundreds of films created from all over the world. This last year, we had a hundred films that were created, uh, including Sofiya shot a film from New York, which, uh, her cute and amazing son does a little cameo in it, possibly steals the show, even though she gives us an amazing performance. Um,

Sofiya: 30:27

Oh no, It was all him!

Nic: 30:27

(Laughter) But, but the coolest thing about this is, you know, many times we talk in the community about what we want. We want more inclusion. We want to be more represented. Well with the film challenge, this is something that becomes tangible because you can't just talk about what you want, but you have to make a film. But most importantly, it it's a job opportunity because the industry are watching these films. And you never know when it, when a project comes out specifically, something that happened a couple of years ago, Peter Farrelly, who, you know, the Farrelly brothers have created Dumb and Dumber and Something About Mary. And they've really been huge advocates for hiring people with disabilities throughout their entire career. So, uh, in 2018, Peter Farrelly, who has been a film challenge mentor, and somebody who I've become friends with had this great role for a little person actress. And he said, do you have any ideas of anybody? Do you know anybody? And I said, well, here's 10 films that stared little people from the film challenge. And he auditioned all those factors and Sofiya got, um, you know, multiple season recurring role based on her talent. And she, she was ready for that opportunity and the fact that he was able to look through and he was able to see her film and, and then that became a job opportunity for her to audition. What's so cool about the film challenge is it's been something that has bridged communities and has allowed people to network amongst each other. So that's what I'm kind of most proud of. The film challenge is something that, you know, I work on it all the time and it's a huge passion, but when you see people getting jobs from it, I mean, it just, it's, it's something I think I'm most proud of! Also come see me on tour still, still tour.

Shelly: 32:25

And where's your tour at now? And where are you headed?

Nic: 32:27

So I'm going to be opening up for Nate Bergatzy and we're doing a lot of dates. I'm doing other shows outside of N ate, but w e'll be on the West coast i n October. And yeah, and then just excited to, you know, other other p rojects and other things coming out!

Sofiya: 32:45

And I just wanted to say that he filled a void that was existing, that people with disabilities,actors with disabilities, creative directors, wanted an opportunity to create. And he really just did that. He just made it happen and said, so can you! And that's why everyone has jumped on and jumped on this train that I think is so fantastic. I'm so grateful that I've gotten to professionally work through that experience, but more, even more so is the connections with other disabled artists, creatives, and allies in the community that are working with us, you know, that want to tell our stories or just want to be part of the cause. Like Nic said, it doesn't have to be about disability. That it's more about that collaboration. Cause that's, that's like the real change that we're talking about. It's that connection that it's going to help disrupt ableism and, and help us, you know, come out of that. I remember when it started, I remember it in New York being like six people around a conference table and it's grown so much and it's just been amazing to see the growth. And I can't believe I did a film last year with my baby. And that was like a moment for me with COVID and everything going on, that I was like, I'm still an actor, I'm still a creative person. I made a film. And that really helped me, you know, personally and the film challenge gave me an opportunity to do that. You can't make something up like that. You know, that's just real impactful change that I think is happening. Like one story at a time. So huge fan obviously of the film challenge, but just that, like, it's just an, it's a real opportunity for people. So anyone that's listening now thought about it, do it, you should do it!

Shelly: 34:34

In wrapping it up. So you guys, each are new parents. What do you wish for your children and their future with dwarfism? Do you think it's going to have barriers and stigmas when they get to be parents and your age?

Nic: 34:48

Well, I mean, for me, this is the interesting thing. We actually don't know if our daughter, um, has dwarfism yet. Um, because my kind of dwarfism is unique and that, uh, my parents didn't know I was a little person until I was two or almost three. So, um, partially that answer could be different depending on if she's a little person or if she's not, you know, as I said, society, I feel like is just more open and I just hope that she's able to just embrace everything and just kind of enjoy life and learn how to, you know, whether it's us or whether it's herself, you know, brush off, you know, comments or reactions, which are natural. You know, other kids, kids don't always know. I mean, it's, it's instinctual for a kid to be like, what's, what's the deal? Why is this? I mean, they are, you know, no filter talking things out. So, uh, I think it's important to not over shelter, you know, to let things happen and to teach or just be comfortable in those moments.

Sofiya: 35:52

I would, I would agree. I think it's, it's such a big question that does change every day in my brain and in my heart, my thoughts about it. But I think that I would ideally love the world to be a perfect place for my son, you know? But it's not going to be. And that's because as humans, as a human society, you know, I think we're working on being better, but it, it does take time, change, takes time and awareness takes time. And so I just hope that I'm a good model for him on how to deal with hard situations and, um, how to, you know, be fully self accepting of himself, but that, you know, listening to me and my husband and sharing with Logan on our experience and how we've overcome and how we can keep pushing for the change and he's going to rock at it!(laughter)

Shelly: 36:48

So one final question, where can our listeners follow and connect and learn more about you?

Sofiya: 36:54

Yeah. Thank you. I mean, my, you can definitely always tune in and be up-to-date on me on my website. Um, it's my name? Www.SofiyaCheyenne. S O F I Y A C H E Y E N N E.COM. But yeah, you can contact me through my website and, u m, I don't have any shows coming up, but possibly working on a musical that I've been with for a while, Other World, but some good things coming for sure. And, u m, and also I do do a lot of consultant work with arts organizations. So if that's anything that people are interested in, yeah. Give me a shout.

Shelly: 37:39

Perfect. Nick, where are you landing these days?

Nic: 37:42

So you can find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook at Nic Novicki, u h, it's Nic with no K so N IC, N O V I C K I. And you can learn about the Easter Seals Disability Film Challenge, go do disabilityfilmchallenge. com, and you can follow us@ disabilityfilmchallenge. And we have a lot of different workshops and seminars that we do. And also if you follow me, you can find out if I'm coming to a city near you or any other updates about my career.

Shelly: 38:17

Thank you so much. Sofiya and Nic for being on the show. I really appreciate your time and educating me and all of our listeners worldwide more on dwarfism for dwarfism awareness month in October. So thank you so much for your time.

Nic: 38:29

Thank you so much.

Sofiya: 38:31

Thank you so nice to meet you, Shelly. Thanks for your time.

Speaker 1: 38:35

Thank you so much. Yeah, it was really great. And to our listeners, thanks for listening worldwide to us. And don't forget to hit that Like and Subscribe button, so you never miss an opportunity to hear DisAbility Talks.

Outro: 39:08

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of DisAbility Talks want to keep the conversation going then visit our website at AbilitiesinMotion.org, or connect with us on social media and remember don't dis my ability.