From 'Wolf of Wall Street' Ex-Wife to Empowered Psychotherapist: Dr. Nadine Macaluso's Story of Resilience and Love

In this week's Shot@Love episode From 'Wolf of Wall Street" Ex-Wife to Empowered Psychotherapist: Dr. Nadine Macaluso's Story of Resilience and Love, we talk all about surviving toxic relationships, trauma bonds, narcissistic abuse, and healing. Have you ever found yourself trapped in a story that wasn't your own? Today, Shot@Love features Dr. Nadine Macaluso, whose life once sounded like a plot from a Hollywood movie; in fact, it was. But behind the glittering facade of a marriage to the notorious "Wolf of Wall Street," Jordan Belfort, lay a reality far removed from the glamorous image. From a model navigating the gritty streets of Brooklyn to a psychotherapist and author, Dr. Macaluso's narrative is one of profound transformation and resilience. She shares her journey of self-discovery, the intense dynamics of her past relationship, and how she used her experiences to fuel her passion for helping others in their own quests for healing.

The struggle to find one's voice amidst the chaos is a journey many can relate to. Dr. Macaluso’s account spills light on the often unseen trauma bonds underpinning some relationships. Her insights into the trials she faced during her marriage and the challenges of managing a turbulent household while nurturing a career are both sobering and inspiring. In this raw conversation, we also dissect the cultural shifts that have propelled women from a place of competition to one of mutual support—celebrating the newfound strength in women's solidarity through movements like #MeToo and the push against victim-blaming.

But beyond the past lies a blueprint for the future. Dr. Macaluso offers hope and guidance on how to rebuild life after escaping abuse and trauma. She discusses the power of setting boundaries, the role of recovery, and the significance of trust in forging authentic relationships. Her story is more than an echo of her former life; it's a testament to the courage it takes to step into the light of self-truth and to love oneself fiercely in the aftermath. Join us as we embrace Dr. Macaluso's message of empowerment, hope, and the enduring quest for love and safety in our relationships.

To learn more about Dr. Nadine Macaluso, follow her on Instagram @therealdrnadine or visit her website, www.drnae.com. You can also purchase her best-selling book Run Like Hell on Amazon. For more episodes of Shot@Love, you can listen to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and other platforms.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

In this week's episode, I will highlight the extraordinary journey of Dr Nadine Macaluso, the ex-wife of the Wolf of Wall Street, jordan Belfort. Belfort, once a notorious stockbroker and financial criminal deep into drug addiction, became an informant for the FBI and owed $110 million in restitution. During his time in prison, he wrote his memoir. Martin Scorsese acquired the rights and produced the blockbuster hit the Wolf of Wall Street, starring Leonardo DiCaprio, a role that captivated audiences worldwide and earned DiCaprio an Oscar nomination, while the film made $500 million. However, this betrayal was the story of a one-sided psychopath. However, this betrayal was the story of a one-sided psychopath. Behind the glitz and glamour of Hollywood, there's a lesser-known narrative Belfort's ex-wife, nadine, who stood on the sidelines with her story. Untold, gaslit and overshadowed. She found her voice, earned a PhD, became a psychotherapist dedicated to helping women escape pathological partners, and wrote the book Run Like Hell. Can we get a hell? Yes, for this girl.

Speaker 1: 1:07

I'm Carrie Brett and Shot at Love starts now. Dr Ney's story and clinical expertise have been featured by various media outlets, including the Daily Mail, good Day New York, the Doctors and MindBodyGreen, reaching millions worldwide. Today we'll learn how she recovered and is now helping others. It is my honor to welcome Dr Nadine McAloosa to the show today. So, without further ado, welcome Dr Nay.

Speaker 2: 1:38

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:40

I'm so excited to have you you have such an inspirational story and I think people want to hear about your story that you grew up on welfare in Brooklyn. You became a model. You supported your mom during those college years. You fell in love with the charming stockbroker.

Speaker 2: 2:00

Yes, take us back to that time. Yeah, I grew up in Brooklyn in the 1970s with a single mother who you know. We were on welfare for a time and it was a really magical time to grow up in Brooklyn, you know. There was no internet, all the kids played on the street and I grew up in a home where psychology was really discussed and how we felt was discussed at the dinner table, and so I was very blessed in that way that all of myself was very accepted in my home and I had a pretty charmed childhood, even though we didn't have money.

Speaker 2: 2:30

There was no drama in the home, there was no yelling, but you do need to make money to live. So, since my parents weren't going to support me, I decided to model in New York City as the quickest, efficient way to make money. I was living in the city with my friends, going to Studio 54, listening to Madonna and having this fun life in New York City. As fate would have it, and as the movie the Wolf of Wall Street demonstrates, I walked into a party that would change my life forever, which is so crazy because that's all it takes is being, in that moment, crossing paths with somebody and you don't know, you're so young, you're just like, okay, you go to this party.

Speaker 1: 3:17

It's like it really happens in the movie. That's where Jordan first sees you.

Speaker 2: 3:23

Yeah, I go to the party. I had chosen the Hamptons and it wasn't as quite big a party, but there was a party and I go with my boyfriend and all of a sudden I walk into this party and everybody's like a little strange and I'm like what's happening? Now? I didn't know they were all on quaaludes at the time because I didn't even know what a quaalude was. And, as the movie demonstrates, somebody did expose themselves to me, which was so horrific and felt so scary as a young 22 year old girl, and I said to my boyfriend we have to leave. Maybe I met my ex-husband, jordan, you know the Wolf of Wall Street very briefly, but then we left, never to see any of those people again. Right, but it didn't work out like that.

Speaker 1: 4:04

He saw you, and this is a true nature of men when they see something they want, doesn't matter how successful they are. They're going to pursue you.

Speaker 2: 4:20

I had no idea about this. You know that he had seen me and this was all happening inside of his brain Because first of all, he was married. As a 22-year-old girl I couldn't even understand all of that. That somebody would think to even pursue somebody while married that just didn't even compute in my brain. He made a mutual friend of ours 15,000 in the stock market to set us up with her. We went out and he showed up and I thought it was strange he was coming. I said why is he coming? Isn't he married? And she said what? He was coming. I said why is he coming? Isn't he married? And she said what do you care? I said I don't care, just weird. So he came and he got out of his white testarossa and sauntered over with his cowboy boots and sat down next to me. And I'm from Brooklyn, he's from Queens and he was super charming and we just got along really well.

Speaker 1: 5:05

So he pays this person to find you, have you come to the restaurant, $15,000. That's a lot of money back then, right?

Speaker 2: 5:14

That's like 100,000 today.

Speaker 1: 5:16

Right, talk about a finder's fee. It's like, I think, the best scene in the movie, though, when Margot Robey, who plays you, and he starts talking about friends I can have friends and she says we're not going to be friends. Obviously there was a connect like a really strong.

Speaker 2: 5:36

There was real chemistry, yeah. So after the time that you know, we went out the set up date that I didn't know was a set up date. About six months later, we actually went out on our first date. He had told me he was separated and he had a separate apartment from his wife. That was it. We went out on our first date and the rest, as they say, is history.

Speaker 1: 5:58

These things. They do become toxic. They're very fun in the beginning. That's where the addiction starts. And the dopamine and the oxytocin yeah, I never knew that and I've done a lot of research on this. And when you broke it down that way that it's as difficult to get out of a relationship like this, it's equivalent to breaking a cocaine habit. And that made me feel better, because if you have the information, then you're not beating yourself up Like how could I keep going back and why can I not get out of this? And it takes so many tries and times. So let's go back to this whirlwind relationship and he's doing really well and he's able to show you a life that you've never experienced.

Speaker 2: 6:52

You know, and you have to also think about the time right. That was when Pretty Woman was coming out right. That was when the movie Wall Street was out right. So there were always myths and themes that, like, someday your prince is going to come and save you. I wish you with this amazing lifestyle and you're going to live happily ever after. Well, that couldn't have been further from the truth, but it was a whirlwind. It felt so good. We would travel, we would go to the fanciest restaurants. He would take me shopping. He would send his driver to my house with a Bulgari watch. One time he sent his driver to my house with $15,000. I said what's this? Or he's like just for the fuck of it. So I mean, there was all of this over the top intense behavior mixed in over the top.

Speaker 2: 7:39

I love you. You're my soulmate. We're going to be together forever. And he was young, he was handsome, he was self-made. You just think to yourself I've met a unicorn.

Speaker 1: 7:50

What's not to love right?

Speaker 2: 7:52

What's not to love? He's super nice to me and just sweeping me off my feet doesn't even describe it well enough. You get the gist of it and, like I say in my book, intensity is not intimacy. But in the beginning of these relationships, what know what I just described? What he was doing is love, bombing right. And then the constant texting and the constant attention.

Speaker 1: 8:14

And the gifts and you spoke about. One time he gave you all this money and you didn't even know how to. You bought your mom a stereo because you didn't even know how to spend it.

Speaker 2: 8:30

Yeah, I didn't. I couldn't even spend it if I tried. I did run around to a lot of stores and buy a lot of pretty dresses, but it just wasn't anything that I was used to, and so we felt, of course, extraordinarily compatible. That lasted for a short time.

Speaker 1: 8:39

No one back then. Like you said, this was the time of wall street and pretty woman. We got our information from very limited tv or movies oh yeah, very limited tv movies, yes and so no one was talking about grooming, no, or intuition. Listening to yourself does this feel right? How do I check it? You didn't even talk to your girlfriends about this stuff.

Speaker 2: 9:04

People just got in relationships, got married, yeah, and it was just fast and furious and it happened really quickly and it felt very natural, you know, as I describe in my book and as I describe in most trauma bonds, very quickly his mask, this Prince Charming mask, started to fall. But at that point I was already hooked in and believed I was in love.

Speaker 1: 9:29

And love can conquer everything. Yeah, the hope is the hook, like you say. So the hope of this happy lifestyle, and why would you give it up, right? I mean, there's way too much good, way too much good, and this is definitely the pattern where they how do we get you isolated? How do we make you mine, in a sense?

Speaker 2: 9:52

Yes, yes, because we're an object to have and to hold, not a person to love. And there was, like we say, nobody was talking about narcissism, love bombing. Nobody, not even my therapist, was talking about this.

Speaker 1: 10:02

I mean I think we're close in age and I don't even think having a therapist was a thing back then when I got married.

Speaker 2: 10:10

Yeah, because I grew up again in a house that was psychologically oriented, so it was accepted. But you're right, most people did not even go to therapy. I was strange that I went to therapy.

Speaker 1: 10:19

Right and I grew up Irish Catholic, so Irish was the last one.

Speaker 2: 10:25

You went to confession or to the priest, that's right.

Speaker 1: 10:29

He starts pushing you to get engaged and that happens. Talk about that.

Speaker 2: 10:34

It's all the domination and the high pressure sales tactics start If you're not going to marry me, I'm not going to date you. And then, if you're not going to have children right away, I'm not going to marry you. Inside, I felt like this is nuts, you know, but he's so strong and so dominant and so intimidating. And then, you know, the young girl in me, again swept up in the love, was like oh, he just must love me so much. That's why he wants to do this, not thinking that this was all a manipulation.

Speaker 1: 11:08

To wrap me up quickly, probably before I realized who he really was Because you are strong, and you were strong then, but once things get complicated.

Speaker 2: 11:21

Yeah, and I couldn't have boundaries with him. That wasn't allowed. You know, I mean when to get married and when to have children are very big decisions, you know it's not like what lipstick to wear, what dress to wear, and there was no respect for what I needed or wanted.

Speaker 2: 11:35

It was his way or the highway, and I just got plowed over and I went along with it. Yeah, I would fight. Initially I think I actually threw a glass Tropicana juice jar I just had once over the child thing because I was so enraged by this. Now I know is coercive control, but I was no match for him.

Speaker 1: 12:01

But it takes a long time of pain to realize that you can get out and that you are not a match for him. But it takes a long time of pain to realize that you can get out and that you are not a match for him. Yeah, and I think you knew down deep because you do talk about when he does buy you the five carat ring and he takes you to your favorite restaurant.

Speaker 1: 12:18

You didn't feel the way you thought you should have felt and I can't tell you how many people I talked to who said I knew going down the aisle, I knew the moment I got that ring. I knew, I always knew, but I didn't know how to.

Speaker 2: 12:31

Yeah. I didn't know how to voice that I, first of all, was not connected to my own power at all at 22.

Speaker 2: 12:37

I mean let's be real, and I certainly wasn't connected to my intuition. And so, even though my gut said Ohoh, as I talk about in that video when he gives me the ring, I then got overridden by the dopamine and the oxytocin Because then, guess what, we were going to Paris on the Concorde. So, uh-oh, I'm like, push that uh-oh down. And now I'm off to Paris on the Concorde and he's still trying to coerce me into doing what he wants me to do. But like we say that that's the intermittent abuse. Right, You're flying to Paris on the Concorde, but then in the hotel he's ripping a phone out of the wall because I'm not agreeing to have children.

Speaker 1: 13:21

And that's so scary and it's so confusing.

Speaker 2: 13:26

So scary and so confusing. And then, wait, is he? This is where it comes in. Is he a good guy or a bad guy? The cognitive dissonance, so the intermittent reinforcement, or the intermittent re abuse, which is, you know, 70% of the time he was cruel, controlling, intimidating, insulting, and 30% of the time he was generous, kind and helpful and loving, right Started, right from the beginning, but again, I didn't know what it was.

Speaker 1: 13:50

And there was no books there was no books. There's no books and that's so scary, it's. So how did we all it's like it's how did we all even make it? I don't know. Women are really strong. I don't know Women are really strong. And I don't know exactly what happened with the yacht. When you were like, you went and said we have to call Mayday, and you saved yourself.

Speaker 2: 14:15

Yeah, so many times, so many times. Yeah, I just got goosebumps when you said that yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:21

I mean think about it.

Speaker 2: 14:22

I had a bumper sticker on the back of my truck that said you know, my angels are on the run. My angels are on the run, yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:29

Yeah, I say. All my angels drink on the job. They're so tired of me and my bad decisions.

Speaker 2: 14:38

Yes, yes, yes. And you know, and I think as a young girl I really wasn't connected to my gut, to my power, to you know, I didn't even really know who I was, so it was much easier for him to override me.

Speaker 1: 14:55

Well, how are you supposed to figure out who you are and listen to yourself when you're constantly trying to hide the truth about him and the chaos that really is behind the scenes. Yeah, which is a full-time job.

Speaker 2: 15:09

Yeah, it was a full-time job. Yeah, and battle with him, battle with him. You know, a person like this is highly antagonistic and hostile, which, again, you don't realize till life unfolds.

Speaker 1: 15:22

But your mom was one of those angels who was like, oh, you don't really need to do this if you don't want to do this. Yes, she was. So now this movie comes out, and now it must have been pretty challenging for you because, like you said, you saw pain of your story, but then something clicked in you and you're like I'm going to do something, I'm going to write my story.

Speaker 2: 15:45

First, jordan wrote a book and that was hard enough because I had left him and I had moved to California. I started a new him and I had moved to California, I started a new life and I was very blessed in that way with my children and my current husband, and I was like this shit's just going to follow me for the rest of my life. Like here I am thinking I could start fresh, but then, you know, he decided to write the book, I think in 2007. And then, in 2013 was when the movie came out and I was just getting my doctorate. At that point, I was finishing my doctorate.

Speaker 2: 16:33

And you're like who's going to come to me? Right, you're about, often doesn't manifest, you know it. Um, people did want to come because they were like, wait, you did this and you're over here like no you, if you did this for yourself, hopefully you can help me pull me through so what was the superpower?

Speaker 2: 16:47

yeah, it all, it all worked out, but it's still. Even when the movie came out, I had no idea that I was going to use this movie as a platform to help women. I wish I could say I was some genius that had it all planned out.

Speaker 1: 17:00

I did it. Well, that makes sense because Hollywood's Hollywood, right. So it's not real life and it's so extreme when these things happen. It happens like a tidal wave and you're kind of like on the outskirts watching this whole thing. So it's a lot to process. I think.

Speaker 2: 17:17

Oh yeah, I was in therapy. I mean, I've been in therapy for 25 years. That's what saved me Aside from being a therapist, that's what made me be a therapist, yeah. So I was in therapy, processing and ad nauseum.

Speaker 1: 17:27

So how many years after the movie did you decide to write the book?

Speaker 2: 17:31

I'd say a good seven years later and what had happened was that, as I write in my book, all these smart, kind, beautiful women were coming into my therapy room, trauma bonded, staying with men that were coercively controlling them, abusing them, abusing their children, betraying them, being financially abusive, and I just was like we have a problem. We do. And this was when Jeffrey Epstein and Harvey Weinstein this was all also in the news and I was got very fascinated about these dark, tetrad, pathological people and how they're affected in society and families and couples.

Speaker 1: 18:08

And it's playing out all over the place in movies in reality shows. Yes, numbers are increasing with the pandemic. Yes, people are in crisis. I see it with social workers, I see it everywhere and I agree with you it was the time it really was the time to do it. Time it really was the time to do it. It's shocking to me that 75% of your clients it's a large number are in this trauma bond relationship. Yeah, which is the most dangerous?

Speaker 2: 18:45

Yeah, because so many people? I mean, why do people really come to therapy? Usually their relationships are driving them crazy. I mean, some people do come for their own anxiety or depression, for sure, you know, or if they have like a serious you know mood disorder such as bipolar, but most people come because of relationship issues Interesting. That's just what I've discovered, and or maybe they came to me for those reasons, and I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, right. So that's all about relationships. A licensed marriage and family therapist, right. So that's all about relationships. Again, I had no idea that this would all materialize like this, but then, ironically, I had this movie to use as a vehicle.

Speaker 1: 19:23

He used it in his way and you used it in your way, and I prefer your way, but much better, your way, but much better. But what's interesting too, is that you're able to use your story and I think that's so great because people hold on to stories but you're able to use the other stories of the women that you help.

Speaker 1: 19:44

Yes, and that's really powerful because you show all these examples. When I first heard you come on and your voice and you reading it and the first words that you said, I was like bawling. I'm like this is unbelievable. This woman is so strong and you can just like cut a knife through what you've lived, like that pain and like what you've lived. It's so raw and so real and I can only imagine how difficult it was for you. And and you said that the process ate you from the inside out and at times you felt like you're losing your mind and your mom said when you think you're losing your mind, you're probably regaining it.

Speaker 2: 20:24

Yeah, Writing the second chapter especially called Is he Twisted or Tender?

Speaker 1: 20:29

Right.

Speaker 2: 20:29

About the pathological partner. It was very, very painful, yeah, writing about that darkness that many of us have experienced when we were supposed to be in love.

Speaker 1: 20:42

It never leaves you and you're changed forever. Yeah, part of you, you can show women that you can have a happy life and have healthy relationships and have your power, which is incredible. And use that power to do good in the world and help other women, because it is a powerless thing.

Speaker 2: 21:00

It is a powerless thing. And you know, one time I was in therapy amazing therapist Celine LaPierre, I'll give her a shout out, she's in Los Angeles, very talented woman and I was talking to her about power and something that I wanted to do and I said, oh, I can't do that, that's given me too much power. She goes what's wrong with power? I said, well, I just associated with greed and abuse and exploitation. She said, nadine, you have a light magic. She said here's your power for good. And it was one of the most profound statements this was probably eight, nine years ago that anybody one of them that I'll never forget and I was like, oh wait, we don't. This is what people do. I like really gave me a mind shift around power because, as we know, in a, in a trauma bond, the second piece is the power imbalance. One person has the power and abuses it.

Speaker 1: 22:03

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Speaker 1: 22:34

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Speaker 1: 23:23

I like what you say about Hollywood and what we're seeing around us, and we need to shift the thinking that it's the woman's fault or like we're accountable for other people's actions. And oftentimes this type of personality goes to the light because they have to balance the darkness. They dim your light, steal your light temporarily and that's scary. Again, it's like you said it's the power. Someone has to have all the power.

Speaker 2: 23:56

And now I'm working towards, you know, educating people that, like I, can be in my power, which simply means the ability to influence myself. Right, that's what it means to be empowered and my partner can be in his power, and we can be connected.

Speaker 2: 24:09

And it doesn't have to be this hierarchical one over the other, and you know that's one of the reasons why I wrote my book and I'm sure you feel this in the writing. I turn the tables on. Can we stop blaming the victim? Can we just stop? Abuse is always the fault of the abuser and in no way was I responsible for his abuse or drug addiction and in no way was I responsible for his abuse or drug addiction. But I was made to. You're codependent. You enabled this and it's like you think I could have stopped. Jordan Belfort right.

Speaker 1: 24:43

But that was the old model, but I think you're seeing now, collectively with women, that they're moving away from competition and they're collaborating and they're highlighting each other's lights and they're moving away from competition and they're collaborating and they're highlighting each other's lights and they're empowering each other and it's beautiful to see that we're stronger together. And you saw that with the Me Too movement and you're seeing it.

Speaker 2: 25:03

Yes, I see it Even through social media. You know which. I know there's a lot of people have issues with it, but I have to say, for this, this sort of purpose, it's incredibly helpful and I have like a whole band of women right On social media that we're all supporting each other and we're all working towards helping to educate people and empower them to make the world a better place.

Speaker 1: 25:27

I don't know that you'll ever stop it, but you'll be able to move out of it quicker. Don't know that you'll ever stop it, but you'll be able to move out of it quicker, quicker. Yes, you'll know the red flags and you were strong, so you were never going to be a match for that type of relationship. It just wasn't going to be for you.

Speaker 2: 25:43

No, and and that's. I did a video about this recently. I don't know if you saw it where I say you know, my girls are saying to me now, dr Ney, it's not taking four years, it's not taking four months, it's taking four weeks, and I'm recognizing they're pathological lovers and I'm getting rid of them.

Speaker 1: 25:59

That's so great. I've been studying this stuff for a long time and in your book you wrote about twinship. That's the first time I even heard that word.

Speaker 2: 26:08

Yeah, twinship, where they start to mirror you Like I like french fries, you like french fries, I like pizza, I like you know classical music. And you're like God. This person and I are just perfect match soulmates. It's all manipulation.

Speaker 1: 26:24

Oh my gosh, it's so crazy. So let's talk about manipulation and the mind mapping and why they need the domination and why they need to control you and make you feel crazy.

Speaker 2: 26:37

Yeah, because at the bottom of a trauma bond is coercive control. Right, the person wants control. So how do we gain control over people? We dominate and intimidate them so that they fear us. We manipulate them with lying, or we manipulate them with gaslighting. We could see them do something. And then they say I didn't do that, you're crazy. Or they're mind mapping us.

Speaker 2: 27:01

And I use this example in the book of where one of the women had a father that abandoned her. So whenever she got into a fight with her spouse he would abandon her to rip that core wound open, so she would come crawling back to him. All of the tactics intimidation, manipulation, domination, isolation they're all weapons of coercive control because that person wants to control you. I would talk to a woman yesterday amazing, amazing woman who told me her ex-husband called her 200 times and went out. And that's what we're talking about monitoring them. For me it was you know, quit your job, stay at home, move where I want you to live. Plus the intimidation and the domination, plus the lying, plus the betrayal, and all of a sudden they strip away your sense of self. You're a lot easier to control when you have no sense of self and you're afraid and confused.

Speaker 1: 28:00

Right, and you touch upon this being afraid. And one of the most powerful things I think you wrote in your book was when Jordan would say to you the only way you're getting out of this relationship is in a body bag. That's right. That took my breath away. Yeah, that's the highest level right there of yeah, where do you think you're going?

Speaker 2: 28:23

And you know that's why I finally did leave him. When he got an ankle bracelet on and you know all the trolls on the internet will say to me oh, you left him cause he lost all his money, I was like no, I left him because I was emotionally and verbally abused for seven to eight years, finally kicked down the stairs and I finally felt safe once he had an ankle bracelet on because I knew he could, it was the government's problem and couldn't hurt me anymore. And I knew he couldn't say I was a drug addict. I knew he couldn't say I was a bad mom because it was so blatant.

Speaker 1: 28:53

Now, Well, that was a blessing because it almost, in a sense, once the government took over, there was no more decision for you. Like that was, like that was your, like the doors open like it had opened and you had to run like hell.

Speaker 1: 29:09

You had to run like hell and not look back. And when people make comments, like people who the trolls and all those things, and it's just, you're beautiful, you're powerful, you help people. You're just like the light magic. So people are going to take shots at you. I mean, that's just going to be the, I don't care Whatever.

Speaker 2: 29:32

Usually I heart them and just to confuse them yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:35

I love that.

Speaker 2: 29:36

I have to say I don't really even have a lot of trolls and as a 56 year old woman I realized mostly everything people say to us is projection anyway.

Speaker 1: 29:43

Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2: 29:45

So I don't get upset about it, but I think it's important to illuminate that because it just shows how afraid I was that I literally had to wait till he got an ankle bracelet on.

Speaker 1: 29:56

I think that's the story. You had a post and you said leave before your soulmate becomes your soulmate.

Speaker 2: 30:05

Yes, there you go. There she is. Yeah, and a lot of my patients. I always say this to them I'm like you don't have the luck that your ex-husband is going to get arrested. It makes it more challenging Because for me, that power imbalance then shifted, then shifted. He was no longer up here. We were on much more even playing fields. And when that doesn't shift, and if the man has more money or has more power because of what he does, and then a lot of women go into the court system, it's really, really challenging, don't?

Speaker 1: 30:43

get me started on the court system, but-.

Speaker 2: 30:45

I know I won't, I know it's a hot topic.

Speaker 1: 30:48

It's scary and when you're dealing with somebody who has control of the finances and your life and they're gambling or addicted to drugs or involved in criminal behavior. Look out as high conflict as you can get.

Speaker 2: 31:05

It really is. Unfortunately, the courts and the judges are not educated enough on these pathological people. Now, listen, I'm hoping, as these big celebrities that are totally pathological, like we've seen this week with P Diddy you know that hopefully they're starting to wake up a little bit, but we've got a long way to go there.

Speaker 1: 31:26

So when he was taken by the FBI and put on house arrest, you didn't really have the tools that you give other people. Take us back to that person, because it wasn't like you were sitting there journaling. I'm not responsible for his choices. Like you know, you're not doing all these things that we have today.

Speaker 2: 31:46

No, I'm not, but after I left him I did. There's a place called the Karen Foundation and I did go check myself into a program there called Breakthrough, which is a great program if anybody wants to go for five days and rediscover themselves like from six in the morning to 7pm at night. So I did go there for a week between Christmas and New Year's after I left him and that really helped me a lot. That was the first time I learned about boundaries 31,. I didn't know you could say no, I did not really understand boundaries. So I got a good psychoeducation there. They did really teach me about kind of the things that I talk about today Not exactly as I talk about it, but it was enough of a springboard and plus I had had the therapy from before and I just was not going back, no matter what.

Speaker 2: 32:37

And I did have again a really smart mother and good friends and I did read Codependent no More. I dove into very serious healing. Did you ever lose hope about finding love? Oh, sure, sure, of course I mean because I was like, who can I trust? But it's also. It was about me learning to trust myself to make the right decision.

Speaker 1: 33:01

I think about you being a young mom alone with young children. Oh yeah, no one was alone like that, like they didn't get divorced with young children back then and and you didn't really have a bunch of friends to look to.

Speaker 2: 33:18

No, none of my friends were divorced. No, none of them had really been dealing with the. You know the sheer madness of what I've been dealing with. My love for my children was my guiding light.

Speaker 1: 33:30

Right.

Speaker 2: 33:31

So I was like I got these two little souls that are five and three. I got to figure this out for them and they gave me pretty intense motivation and strength.

Speaker 1: 33:42

Yeah, and you talk about that. You're like pain and suffering is is a pretty good motivator.

Speaker 2: 33:47

It's a really good motivator, cause I was like I, when I went to the Karen Foundation. I remember I looked at the girl who was. I went. You know just a friend I met there. I was like God, I'm never going to be the same. She's like good, because you were fucked up. I was like yeah, I really was. I was just living in this crazy dysfunctional land and I really had to relearn how to live basically, and put in boundaries and find balance.

Speaker 2: 34:17

And I remember saying to my kids they were little I didn't take it from your dad, I'm not going to take it from the dog, I'm not going to take it from you.

Speaker 2: 34:23

They were like don't tell us about boundaries, we hate boundaries. But now my daughter's a therapist. That was like really part of my heroine's journey was like once I made that break from him I could turn the mirror back on myself and I talked to my patients about this and I got curious about me. Who really was I? What did I need? What did I want? You know, what were my core values that I had walked away from? Who did I want to become, little by little, through many, many, many tears and many, many pages of journals, to rebuild myself?

Speaker 1: 34:57

You talk about that, you'll say what can you do? What are two small things that you can do, two steps you can take to move your life forward in a positive direction, and I think, that's really good, because it's so overwhelming. How do I fix my life? Well, it's not going to happen in five minutes.

Speaker 2: 35:15

And it's all the little things and the habits that you do every single day that do, in the long run, create your life. But at that moment I get it. You feel, I felt so hopeless, overwhelmed with fear. But you know, like I write, where there's fear, there's transformation, and we're much stronger than we know. Let's just put it that way.

Speaker 1: 35:37

It's so amazing and inspiring to see someone who was so beaten down across the board. Somewhere you found the strength to believe in yourself, and I think we all have that ability.

Speaker 2: 35:52

Completely. I realized it was just up to me. You know, I think when I left my marriage I was like holy shit, like it's me and these two little kids, and I felt so alone and I realized it wasn't up to my therapist, wasn't up to my attorney, and I tell this to my patients. You know, the end of the day it's your life. You're the director of this cruise ship. Oh, I like that You're going to make good decisions. You're going to make bad decisions, but at least start making decisions.

Speaker 1: 36:21

So indecision is a decision. In your book you said I told the same story to my therapist for like eight years. I don't know how she did it, but I'm sure you do it all the time.

Speaker 2: 36:34

I do and paralyzation is very real. But what I tell myself now and what I tell everybody mistake, failure, rejection, all part of life it just means you're trying. I fail every single day at things that I attempt now and I don't even blink.

Speaker 2: 36:50

I'm like okay next, but back then I would be like because my shame was so high and I had so much self-judgment and self-criticism as a younger woman, where today I don't have that. I have self-acceptance of the good and the bad parts, which makes you more interesting, it makes it more real. I'm just, you know, we're all just suffering human beings Like we're not better, we're not worse, we're just who we are authentically. And when I make a mistake, I'm like you know what, nay, you'll do better tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 37:23

So all these women, their stories that are in your book, All these women, their stories that are in your book, they all got to a point where it was the last straw.

Speaker 2: 37:33

Yes, and all the stories are very different, yet similar.

Speaker 1: 37:37

And what do you have to say about the last straw, or helping people get to the place of them, finally making the decision?

Speaker 2: 37:46

Yeah, it's very different and personal for every single person, but there's that saying the pain of staying is worse than the pain of leaving. Women just get to a point where they've had it. They're not going to take any more abuse, coercive control, manipulation, lying. They get stronger a few ways. They get stronger for their children. They fear for their physical safety. They maybe have done something outside of the relationship where they built confidence. They've just been planning. You know, you end up wearing a mask because you can't be authentic. Behind your mask of pretending that you can do this relationship, you start to secretly plan your exit or escape and then one day you do it, one day you run like hell. One day that's the day.

Speaker 1: 38:46

That's the day and you don't look back.

Speaker 2: 38:49

No, Once you do it, it's like, oh, this feels good, even if it feels scary. And my mother taught me that. She said, you know, nadine, when I was with your dad, that was destructive pain. But the struggle of being a single mom and loving you guys and creating the life, that's constructive pain. Your mom's amazing. My mom was amazing. So you know, and that's how I always looked at it Like this is so hard. I remember one day looking at it's like buying a sandwich, and looking at this guy behind the counter and being like how does he do it? How do we all do it? This is so hard. But again, it was constructive pain because I was working towards rebuilding my life and myself. We can all do that.

Speaker 1: 39:32

And when you hit the ground level there, you know you're only going to go up. So when you hit that rock bottom, it can't get any worse.

Speaker 2: 39:40

It can't get any worse. And at least, if you do make mistakes and have failures and all that, at least you're creating it, you're not getting tortured by a crazy person. That at least you're creating it, not getting tortured by a crazy person.

Speaker 1: 39:49

Well, this is why I think your story is so powerful because you can overcome, you can heal, you are living proof, and you gave up two years of your life writing this book and you do it all over again because these women are worth it. And what a purposeful life.

Speaker 2: 40:05

Yeah, I did. I do it all over again. I mean it was super hard. I always do these things to myself like, oh, I'll do that. And then I'm like what the hell was I thinking Right, like we talked about, with what you're doing in the beginning, writing your book? There's no better feeling than you know people such as yourself or other women being like Dr Nate. I read your book and it made me leave.

Speaker 1: 40:28

Oh, that's very powerful.

Speaker 2: 40:30

That's what tipped me over the edge, but you knew that I think writing it Somewhere.

Speaker 1: 40:36

you knew that God gave you the story to write.

Speaker 2: 40:40

I didn't know it was going to be good, honestly, because when you write your own book you're so in it you don't know. But I was like, okay, it's resonating. And you know, I had people telling me, don't put the stories in, do this, do that. And I was like, no, we're going to put the stories in because the stories make the clinical material come to life. I agree, some of these patterns are confusing, very confusing, and you know you have to read it. Listen, it took me a long time even to digest it, you know, and metabolize it as I'm writing it, but I feel so blessed it got published and it's out there and it's so well received and everyone needs to run like hell to buy it and to support you.

Speaker 1: 41:20

Because it's fabulous and just as fabulous as you are, and I can't thank you enough for coming on the show and sharing your story and helping all these people one heart at a time. I love that how you say that.

Speaker 2: 41:35

One heart at a time. And you know this is the mission, right, I connect with you and you connect with your audience, and we all just keep helping each other and empowering each other to reach our potential in life and in love. And don't worry, life's going to throw us enough shit, as we know, along the way, but if you do the work, you do build resilience. I promise you that.

Speaker 1: 41:56

So inspiring. So where can people find out more about you? Follow you on TikTok Instagram get your book.

Speaker 2: 42:03

Yeah, they can go to drnaycom where I have, as you know, tons of free assessments, tons of free information on my podcast, such as this one. They can go to the real Dr Nadeen on Instagram I answer all my own direct messages and TikTok, which is the wild west, Dr Nadeen N-A-E-L-M-F-T. But that's good for the younger girls Totally.

Speaker 1: 42:28

And they need the help.

Speaker 2: 42:30

And they need the help and they need the help we got to help them.

Speaker 1: 42:32

That's right. Well, thank you so much. I just absolutely love you, Dr Ney. You're amazing.

Speaker 2: 42:37

So much for having me on.

Speaker 1: 42:43

And for now, this week shot at love dating tips that are inspired by our guest author of the book Run Like Hell, Dr Nadine Macaluso. Number one hope is the hook. You hope he will go back to the way he was in the beginning or you hope things will change. Remember, there is always hope. You are not broken. You are strong and, like Dr Ney says, this is not how the story will end.

Speaker 1: 43:08

Number two in a trauma bond, there is no intimacy, because it's a relationship built on lies. Honesty is what builds trust and true love. Number three you are not responsible for his choices and his actions, and you're not the reason someone else is an unsafe lover. What you are responsible for is you an unsafe lover. What you are responsible for is you. I hope you found some of my tips helpful this week. This is what Shot at Love is here for to help you find love. Keep up the commitment to yourself and commit to helping someone else by sharing this podcast. Stay safe and stay tuned for more episodes and if you like this show, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. I'm carrie brett and we'll see you next time.