Preparing for Tomorrow's Roads: Jeffery Burkhardt on the Impact of Technology in Trucking

The Future of Truck Driving Schools Amidst the Rise of Autonomous Vehicles - Interview with Jeff Burkhart

In this episode of the Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast, we are joined by Jeffrey Burkhart, Senior Director of Operations for the Commercial Driver Training Program at Ancora Education. We explore the impact of autonomous vehicles on the trucking industry, specifically focusing on the future of truck driving schools. 

Jeff shares insights into Ancora Education's role, the importance of practical driver training, and the challenges faced by the industry. 

Tune in to hear about the necessary regulations, the role of technology, and the promising career opportunities in truck driving.

Contact Jeffery:
jeffery.burkhardt@ancora.com
https://www.ancora.com/

Your Hosts" 

John Farquhar
Summit Risk Solutions: summitrisksolutions.ca
1 226 802-2762
John@summitrisksolutions.ca


Chris Harris
Safety Dawg Inc: safetydawg.com
Chris@SafetyDawg.com
1 905 973 7056


00:00 Introduction to Autonomous Vehicles
00:25 Meet Jeffrey from Ancora Education
01:51 The Future of Truck Driving Schools
03:12 Impact of Autonomous Vehicles on Trucking
08:03 Mandatory Training Standards
14:05 Choosing the Right Truck Driving School
21:25 Career Opportunities in Trucking
25:38 Challenges Facing Truck Driving Schools
28:07 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Keeping it Safety Dawg Simple!
#trucksafety #truckinsurance #truckpodcast

Do you need a "Truck Driver Safety Policy?" Get it today! https://safetydawg.com/policy

Transcript

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 0:00

autonomous vehicles. Self driving trucks. Where is it all leading? Jeffrey from Ancora Education joins us this week on the Trucking Risk and Insurance podcast and talks about truck driving schools and their future with the advent of self driving trucks. Join us. Here we go. Tell us a little bit about yourself and Ancora.

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 0:29

Yes, Chris. Uh, thank you. It's a pleasure being here. Thank you for having me. So, my name is Jeff Burkhart. I am the Senior Director of Operations for the Commercial Driver Training Program for Ancora. Ancora Education, uh, we are a post secondary institution of education. We're based in Arlington, Texas, uh, right in between Dallas and Fort Worth. What we do in this space is that we have our own brick and mortar locations, campuses, that offer skilled trades, HVAC and, and electrical and plumbing and welding and just kind of runs the gamut as well as some certificate programs and associate degrees. Um, and CDL training is one of the high, one of our high demand, uh, programs that we offer. We also, uh, engage with customers or clients rather than whether they'd be community colleges or businesses to where they want to outsource their CDL training to a provider. And that's what ANCORA does for them. So all told, we probably have about almost nearly a hundred points of presence in the United States, uh, in which we engage with direct league training students. That's pretty damn big. Let's. We have grown substantially. It's been a very good, uh, very good business model for us. And we're very proud of our progress and looking to expand, I guess, as any business, good business would want to do.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 1:51

Yeah. And you know, one of the things that comes to mind on when you talk about future and expansion, how do you think autonomous trucks? Are going to impact your business model?

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 2:06

That's a great question, Chris, and, and it actually gets posed to, to me, uh, by certain entities. So I think it's a, I think what's important is, is perspective. So if we take this a step back a little bit. First of all, avs, autonomous vehicles extremely exciting. Um, it, it's high tech, it's flashy, it's it, you know, it makes news because it's, uh, it, it's, it's. It's not necessarily a new technology, but it's certainly burgeoning and it's growing and that's why it's very exciting. It doesn't matter whether it be autonomous personal vehicles, you know, the Teslas and whatnot, but in terms of commercial vehicles and autonomous, probably even more so, uh, that, that technology is, is just really at the forefront, um, with, with artificial intelligence and just all kinds of things. However, I think personally that my response to whenever somebody says, Hey Jeff, you guys are in the business of training entry level drivers. I said, yes. And they say, well, what about, what, what are autonomous vehicles going to do for, for the schools? What are they going to do for the country? And that's where I say, let's take a step back. Yes, we do hear things in the news and we do see this exciting technology, but we have to also keep in mind that the AVs that are currently in use are in very controlled environments. Um, that's not to say that they don't have a place. They certainly do. And we're, you know, we, we advocate for that kind of technology as responsibly, you know, executed, of course, but in terms of level four and level five, yeah. Uh, of the five levels of AVs, those being truly autonomous, where there is not a human being in the truck with the vehicle, I think we're still a ways off from that, even the current level two, level three. Vehicle levels to where you have to have a driver in the truck with you. Um, so even if the vehicle is quote unquote driving itself right now in those controlled environments and certain restricted lanes, um, not, not literally restricted lanes, but as far as lanes of, of, of, uh, experimentation or beta testing, um, in real life use for that matter, uh, there's still a person in the truck with you. So. Between that and I don't, you know, the infrastructure of the country, I don't think it's quite ready for it. I mean, it's one thing to be driving for an autonomous vehicle to be, you know, cruising up and down the, uh, a barren freeway in Texas or Arizona and the Southwest, but that type of driving environment is entirely different than the Dallas Metroplex or Boston, Philadelphia, anywhere in the Northeast corridor. So that's what I mean by a little bit of perspective. I think AVs are here to stay and that's, that's a good thing. And I think that technology is going to improve and I think there are going to be more widespread use for it. But I think we're quite a ways off before we have 80, 000 pound commercial motor vehicles cruising up and down the highways en masse, uh, without any drivers. But one last point on that, Chris, I think maybe it might be a bigger thing. It's not necessarily what we can do in terms of technology. But what will be done from a practical standpoint, whether it be, um, you know, insurance and liability, things within those realms, it could be just a matter of society, societal acceptance. Uh, of, of these AVs. I mean, right now, whenever you have, uh, just an autonomous personal vehicle getting into an accident, it makes the news, uh, you know, almost regardless. Cause can you imagine, again, 80, 000 ton commercial motor vehicles, no drivers. Zipping up and down the highway. And that's not to insinuate that it's unsafe. Uh, I just don't think we're quite there yet. And I think from a legislative and regulatory standpoint, I still think that those things are still lagging a little bit. So as with a lot of technology, the technology is advancing past the regulatory scope, advancing past the infrastructure, but it is very exciting. And, um, I think, you know, it will continue to be exciting as years to come.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 6:08

Well, as you, what. You don't know about me, I own a Tesla and drive it. And a couple of months back, Elon blessed all owners with a month free of the self driving technology. And I believe if I'm not mistaken, and this is where people don't fully understand, you mentioned there's five levels. I believe what Tesla has, which is really kind of good and exciting is only level two. Uh, you still got to be driving that car and fully aware of it because it still makes sense. Uh, dramatic mistakes because when it makes a mistake, it sure as hell wakes you up. So, um, I, my personal belief is we're 20 or 25 years away from having totally autonomous trucks. So if that was true, then any of your students have a very long career, uh, in the industry. So that's just, yep. A hundred percent. I agree

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 7:07

totally. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I agree with you. I think a lot of the industry leaders, uh, you know, outside of the, the, uh, the AV sector, uh, believe the same. Um, I, I think so far though, it's been a real practical approach, I think from all stakeholders. Um, there's not necessarily a rush to, to get these vehicles out there. Again, the technology is evolving. It's very exciting. But yes, to your point, there's going to be a human being, a driver, licensed driver, that's going to be needed in these trucks for, for many years to come.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 7:40

And that's sometimes, as you said, it gets brought up and students certainly should be asking that question. Um, and of course, nobody knows the future, but I really don't believe it's going to be, it's not around the corner. It's not going to happen within the next five years. I feel very confident saying that. And it's more like 20, but that's. Who in the hell am I? That's, it's like everybody, we all got opinions, but what roles do you think the, the truck driving schools have in North America, uh, and specifically, let's talk about the, the recent, and I think it was 22, that the, uh, uh, The mandatory training came out in the States. How did that affect your role?

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 8:34

Yeah. So, um, the FMCSA, Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, they were working on with, with industry stakeholders, um, carriers and schools. And a lot of folks, I bet that I'm certain you're familiar with. This is years ago in the making, as far as establishing entry level driver training. Standards. A standard, if you will, across the sector to ensure or provide a pathway for standard training for people to enter the field. That was supposed to have been implemented in February of 2022, and they extended that, but it did go into effect in February 20, or excuse me, 2020 was originally, but it did go into effect in February 2022. Speaking from the school standpoint and with colleagues of mine, Uh, schools, chains of schools, individual schools, what have you. We were excited for it, uh, because we had been, uh, responsible operators in this space, providing good quality training. Uh, the vast majority of us already met the standards of ELDT before they were actually implemented. So we were all for that, and what that was designed to do, again, was that no longer could a person go to their licensing agency, get a permit, figure out how to do it on their own, and then just go pass the test. So ELDT was designed to where they had to go to a training provider. Uh, I won't say certified because the FMCSA doesn't certify, but they established the minimum standards. That a training provider must, um, meet. Um, and I won't call them schools because a training provider, it could be, you know, a business who has this internal training program that is not a school, but they fall under the same guidelines as the, as the private schools and schools like Ancora. So we're kind of all on the same level playing field as far as that goes. It's been good. It's been good for schools. I think it's been good for the industry. There's, you know, it's been two years now, but we, um, we, we work with the FMCSA. Uh, I'm on the Commercial Vehicle Training Association board and we work with them and they're very collaborative in terms of wanting to fine tune ELDT. There were some discoveries that were not known to begin with or, or, or came to light. Uh, because there's no formal certification process, it's still a self certification, uh, process in terms of being listed on the training provider registry. So there's still a little bit of ways to go in terms of actually making sure that the standards that they had implemented are carried out and faithfully administered by all the training providers. But it is a good move, definitely a great, good move in the, in the right direction, because before ELDT, there really wasn't anything other than somebody Going off and they can send to school, but they can also learn on their own and then, uh, just pass a test, which we don't feel would, would meet all the, all the requirements or all this, all the safety and other concerns that entry level drivers would face.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 11:41

And yeah, absolutely. There's a real challenge, I think, out there. Now, what was the purpose? Do you think of having. ELDT entry driver training.

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 11:56

It was long recognized and this is from folks who were working on a long before I was ever, you know, involved in this space. Um, but it was to provide a standard that would be Universal, at least for the United States, um, that all states would essentially follow. Now, that doesn't mean, you know, states can have standards of their own, and they do, and they have the regulatory bodies each state does to some degree that may regulate Uh, more so, but these would be the minimum standards, um, that would have to be met. Every training provider has to be listed on the FMCSA website as a training provider so that the consumer looking to enter the field and wanting to go to a school, they can go to the website, uh, uh, look for a training provider in their location and, you know, and then they can do their due diligence in terms of vetting that provider. Um, Just by virtue of that process and those standards being in place, that means, theoretically, that every person who wants to get a commercial driver's license would have to attend a training provider that provides the minimum standards that are set forth by the FMCSA. That includes uh, 30 odd theory subjects, Uh, their classroom or in the theory, as well as some requirements for the behind the wheel segments, which is your backing, your pre trip inspecting, uh, in your driving itself. So it did go a long way in terms of providing for some standards that all training providers would have to meet minimally in order for folks, because now, unless you go to a, a training provider that's listed on the registry, you cannot take a skills test. So the systems are all integrated to where that record of NCORA training program, he learned how to inspect, back and drive a commercial motor vehicle. We transmit our training records, your training records in this example, to the FMCSA, and then you'll be able to sit for your skills test. So that is one thing that did not exist before February of 2022.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 14:05

If I was, you talked about due diligence a little bit, or you mentioned it. In trucking, uh, or me as a safety consultant, there's competitors, and there's good competitors who do a hell of a good job for their clients. And I love them. And then there's the other competitors that don't do that kind of a job. What should a prospective student look for? Um, or what, what would be their due diligence?

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 14:36

Great question. Um, and that was one of the points whenever I alluded to earlier when I said some of the discovery points after ELDT came into play because it's still a self certification process. So the consumer who looks on their website and wants to go to ANCORA school or they want to go to, you know, ABC truck driving school. The due diligence there would be to that person to engage with those training entities. They would ask for what are your completion rates? What is your student to instructor ratios? Um, how is the training administered? Um, whether it's, it's, you know, in person facilitator led classroom, whether it's virtual, but, um, any reputable training provider is going to be more than happy to, to share their results. Most of which we have to report to different state regulatory bodies anyways, in terms of our licensure rate and whatnot. Um, but there are those quote unquote. Training providers that are on the registry, and this is one of the, one of the pitfalls, and one of the things that I've mentioned that have been discovered. Since it is a self certification process, there is no external, uh, regulatory body that ensures that that training provider is meeting the requirements as stated. And unfortunately, there have been cases, even in, with our schools, in Ancora, where we've enrolled students who did not get what they paid for. So, the due diligence is just that, doing the homework, visiting them, consulting with them, asking for results.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 16:18

And one of the things, because I get sometimes get asked the same question, and I often will tell a student, pick out anywhere from one to two to three trucking companies that you want to work for. Hopefully they're the good ones. And then say, what schools do you either work with or recognize as giving quality training? And then go backwards, um, and seek out that school.

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 16:47

I agree. That's a great tip. And then I think another good barometer is if, if somebody, if a student interested in CORA, in our program would want to know, okay, after I get my CDL, then what, who, who do you all work with employers? So that's a great barometer. And then that would be quick to mention that we have some national partnerships with, with some, with some fantastic carriers. So if those carriers. Um, are, or have engaged with ANCORA. In other words, they trust that we do what we say we do and that we are able to, uh, supply good quality training. In other words, they are willing to hire our entry level drivers right out of school. That right there will tell you a lot in terms of the, the consumer who's looking to attend a, uh, an invest in a training provider is who trusts you as a school. outside of once I, once I complete your program

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 17:44

because the bottom line is, am I going to get a job?

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 17:48

That's right. That's the bottom line. There are very few people that come to our schools just because, well, you know what, I've always been kind of curious about truck driving. I'll just give it a shot and see if I can get my CDL. Uh, most people know that, you know, there's 78, 000 drivers needed right now, according to the ATA. In 10 years, it's going to be 130, 000 drivers, according to their studies. So it's still a high demand occupation. And, um, you know, but, but it's a substantial investment. Very few, um, career fields can lead to a high paying occupation with a minimal amount of training. And by minimal it doesn't mean that it's not unsafe by any stretch, it's just by virtue of the training itself. Um, it's not like going to a two year, you know, where you have to become a nurse or something like that, or even, you know, welders and other high demand occupations. It just takes longer for those, you know, particular programs as an example, comparatively speaking to, to truck driving. And I think that is one of the attractants for, for folks to enter the field.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 18:48

Well, sure. I mean, truck driver training, and this isn't to diminish the value of truck driver training. It can be done in weeks, as opposed to carpenters, electricians, mechanics, where it's done in years. Exactly. Exactly. If you need to get to work quickly, and honestly, Because I've been involved, uh, as I had mentioned formerly with PTDI, I'm still involved with truck driving schools here in Ontario. Um, I've seen lives get changed in a positive way. You know, people come off of unemployment and have never had a steady job, and then all of a sudden are, are earning a good, strong, middle class income. It changes lives. And it's, to me, that's the exciting part of being involved.

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 19:44

I could've said it any better, you could be an incore education ambassador with that statement, Chris. I agree. It, it, it is transformational. Uh, it is, it, it, it can, the truck driving can immediately disrupt the, the, the, the, the cycle of, of poverty or low income. I mean, it really, and you said it. I couldn't say any better. It does change people's lives. Uh, with such a short amount of time, uh, to your point. And there's, there's a lot of funding mechanisms and resources that are out there, uh, the industry and the, and even the transportation sector in general understands that, you know, over 80 percent of the U S as goods move via a truck in some fashion, it's a high demand occupation. So there's, there's a lot of resources out there in terms of funding for folks to go to schools. And, uh, I would encourage anybody who's interested, uh, regardless of the motivation to do their due diligence. Look at, look at, look at schools in your area and consult with them or the carrier employers. Um, they are, they're just as willing to, even though you don't have a CDL yet as an interested person, um, they are more than happy to, to speak to you because they realize that you being the interested consumer might end up being one of their drivers. So, um, They're fully vested in supplying good information there as well. Not just from the schools, you know, the carriers do a great job of doing that also because they realize, um, looking at a macro level that the industry needs more drivers. So they're all lockstep in terms of promoting, uh, this field, whether it be for themselves as a company or just in general.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 21:25

And I mean, I was a truck driver. I've recently, uh, given up my, uh, My CDL, but it provided my family, when I was a much younger man, with a great middle class income. And that was the goal. Uh, so it did it for me, it did it for my dad. He actually was a truck driver, then he owned a trucking company. Um, you know, so I've made my, my whole life. Basically in as part of the transportation industry and there's many varied careers, you know If you look at me once I became a truck driver, I didn't end up my career in transportation as a truck driver I ended up in safety, but that's just one of the things that happened because I was open to opportunities You know, so

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 22:15

And those are fantastic points because we bring up the same. Um, there's a lot of upward mobility. For many people, having the CDL is the gateway. Now, and thankfully, a ton of folks just, you know, are truck drivers forever and that's a great thing. And for other folks, uh, it is a gateway to where they move up into dispatch managers, safety managers, fleet managers, it could be in maintenance, it could be in, in any number of things. I've had my CDL since 1997. I still do. Uh, I worked at UPS for, for many, many years in the transportation, tractor, trailer and management. So I was in charge of training and dispatch and all kinds of other things. But whenever I left that career and moved to where I am now, um, making a life change, I had my CDL in my pocket and I didn't have another job lined up. I, I moved for different reasons, but as a, as an interim, interim, um, career, uh, I wanted to see what things were like on the, on the other side, so to speak, you know, non-management. So I got a job, I was a truck driver. for about a year and a half there until I decided that, you know what, that's, I loved it. It was good, but it's not my main calling, so to speak. And that's why I went back into management and training specifically. And that's where I am now. So you mentioning that, that you've had a CDL, you used it, uh, and now you've gone on other things. Uh, we certainly, you know, um, advocate for the same. And we, we, we also let our interested students know that there is plenty Of things that a CBL can do for you. And if that means just driving for the rest of your career, well, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. That is very rewarding in and of itself.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 23:57

It sure as heck is. And if you're attracted by things like technology, damn, it's changing fast in this industry.

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 24:06

I tell you what, yeah, it's been a while since I've trained students directly, but nowadays with the vehicles, and you know this, I mean, they have all the amenities as, as, as, as our personal vehicles do. And really, you know, in terms of the safety, uh, and, and the crash mitigation, uh, systems and, and lane departure, I mean, just everything that our personal vehicles have, and cameras and everything, these trucks have them. And with them being primarily automatic transmissions, which is pretty much the standard now versus back in our day, we can say it's standard. When you said standard, you knew that was a manual transmission. Because that's what came standard from the OEMs. Well, now you can't use that term standard because really the standard transmission is not automatic, but between that and all the safety features and all the comfort, uh, you know, creature comforts that these modern trucks have, um, it's just attracting a whole slew of a different demographic to our schools, and that's very exciting to see because. It's things like that that really make a difference. I mean, this is, that's literally your rolling office, your workplace. You want to make sure you're in a vehicle that is comfortable. It is safe. It is efficient. And, and the, the OEMs now, uh, are supplying those types of vehicles, just as much as, as personal vehicle car manufacturers are.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 25:26

Absolutely. All the tech is there. Yes. We're getting close to the end here. So I do want to ask you one other question. What do you think? What are the main challenges that schools are facing right now? What's the main challenge that Ancora is facing right now?

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 25:47

I think as a whole, we operate in about half the states of the country, so there's different regulatory type concerns because that's a little bit fragmented. That's not the biggest challenge. Um, I mentioned earlier that there's a lot of resources in terms of funding for tuition. So it's kind of a catch 22, a conundrum, if you will. The industry knows truck drivers are needed. And yet there still is that funding gap. You know, a student says, you know, How can I come up with five, six, seven thousand dollars to attend a school so I can enter this field? So there's still some challenges there in terms of having those types of, because most schools are not Title IV, they don't receive, um, Department of Education funds. I mean, it's essentially a cash program, so to speak. So the funding for students, but thankfully there's a lot of workforce, uh, you know, workforce investment and opportunity act, for example, which is the federal, uh, level. Uh, that trickles down the state. There's a lot of funding available. So one thing, an interesting thing that happened, Chris, during the pandemic is that we, you know, truck drivers were showcased as an in demand or, or an essential job function. Um, you knew, you knew this, I knew this, how important truck drivers were, but I think we got a lot of good press, so to speak, from that, you know, as far as our sector goes, but then again, it's like, well, everybody knows we need truckers, but there's still a funding, you know, gap. So that's, that's one of the challenges that we, that we face, probably the primary one, but outside of that, the regulatory scope and whatnot, we don't have any issues with, we believe that there needs to be very robust, uh, regulations in terms of keeping everybody safe and compliant. Um, so we have no issues with that.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 27:25

Well, let me just throw my two cents in on that. You know, for anybody who, again, going back to career, even if you have to borrow the money, if you really want to become a truck driver and put your heart and soul into it, you will get great training and you'll end up with a really good job. And if you had to borrow that money, you'll be able to pay it back. It just, you've got to put your heart and soul in it and. And do it, uh, the way the industry will train you to do it. So anyways, Jeffrey, I really appreciate your time today. Is there. Any other thing that you would like to throw out there before we close this interview?

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 28:13

Um, it's been great, Chris. I think we could talk all day long, to be honest with you, since we both, uh, we're not young, young men, so we've been in the field a long time, but no, I don't, nothing really to add, nothing that wasn't already said. My main thing is to advocate for truck driving as a very rewarding, uh, a very financially stable career path for folks, uh, for those people that are interested to do their due diligence and consult with reputable training providers and employers, you know, to enter the field. Drivers are going to be needed for many, many, many years to come. Um, so that being said, you know, please visit. Uh, a truck driving, truck driver training school, or consult with an employer, possibly, if you're interested in coming into this field, because the industry desperately needs it. And I really appreciate, uh, folks like yourself who advocate for truck driving and all the rewards it can bestow on people who, like you said, you know, you gotta, it doesn't come free. Otherwise everybody would have a CDL. You gotta put your heart, you gotta put, you know, you gotta put it into work, but there's almost an immediate return on that investment.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 29:25

Yeah. I don't know where any other career that. You can put in a few weeks of hard work, and it is, it's not easy to become, uh, a truck driver and learn how to drive a 40, 000 pound, or sorry, an 80, 000 pound rig down the road safely. Damn, the rewards are there, I believe. Jeff. Absolutely.

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 29:47

100%.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 29:48

Thank you so much.

Jeffery Burkhardt, Ancora Education: 29:50

Thank you, Chris. It's been a pleasure.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 29:51

And thanks for joining us on this week's Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast, where we were talking about autonomous vehicles. Please like, subscribe, and leave us a comment. John and I appreciate your efforts so much. Thanks and have a great week.