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Working Mom Hour
We know moms tend to get more done in an hour than the average human, yet are often misunderstood and underappreciated in the workplace. We’re here to shine a light on the working mom experience to help ourselves and others step into and advocate for this superpower! We’re not experts, we’ve just been there - and are still there - kids, clients and all. Join us as we cultivate more joy in working motherhood, at the corner of calm and chaos.
Working Mom Hour
Advocating for Ourselves with Christine Michel Carter
Motherhood is a nurturing, compassionate, and emotional occupation - yet our systems aren’t set up to support women during this transformative time.
Today, we engage in a candid conversation with Christine Michel Carter, marketing expert, and leading advocate for maternal mental health and gender equity, who Katie Couric has called the “the mom of mom influencers.” Together, we open a critical dialogue on navigating injustice, racial discrimination, and how to push for true, tangible change.
Once you’ve listened, we have a feeling you’ll need to add her best-selling books to your reading list, including Can Mommy Go To Work? and MOM AF. And, she’s a senior contributor for Forbes, where she tackles the complexities mothers face today, and offers accessible solutions.
In this episode, you’ll discover:
- How to embrace accomplishments, challenge societal norms, and advocate for yourself.
- Strategies for navigating conversations about race, identity, and injustice.
- The importance of community building and solidarity among working mothers.
5:37 - Personal experiences of discrimination in healthcare
7:02 - Details about Mom Congress and its advocacy work
10:44 - Decline of maternity leave benefits in companies
17:11 - Content creation during the pandemic
25:37 - Encouragement to own achievements and take up space
28:45 - Navigating personal growth and self-promotion, recognition and validation
32:16 - Balancing pride with ego and managing others' perceptions
39:51 - Societal influence on behavior
45:01 - Journey of self-awareness and growth
Connect With Christine:
Website: christinemichelcarter.com
Instagram: @cmichelcarter
X: @cmichelcarter
Linkedin: Christine Michel Carter
Learn more about Mom Congress: Mom Congress
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We always want to hear your thoughts, concerns, questions or guest suggestions – email workingmomhour@212comm.com.
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Motherhood is such a nurturing and kind and compassionate and emotional occupation and you're introduced to it in such a transactional way by these doctors who cannot provide the culturally congruent care.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, welcome back to Working Mom Hour. As we pressed record on this episode, one of our clients had a crisis, so Erica stepped away to support and I have the privilege of conducting this interview with Marla. So today's conversation is with the woman Katie Couric calls the mom of mom influencers. Her advocacy focuses on maternal mental health and gender equity, extending essential support to women through all phases of motherhood. She also actively works towards mitigating the challenges associated with untreated maternal mental health disorders, especially for Black mothers and moms of color. Her bestselling books, including Can Mommy Go to Work and Mom AF, along with her insights as senior contributor for Forbes, tackle the complexities facing today's mothers, offering both understanding and solutions. She is a force and we're excited to learn more from Christine Michelle Carter. Christine, welcome to Working Mom Hour.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Maddie. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 2:We are so happy to have you. Let's jump right in. Many of us had a working mom awakening of sorts where we realized something wasn't right. This isn't working. Something has to change. What was that moment for?
Speaker 1:you. It was the moment where everything just clicked for me as a woman. So I was pregnant and had preeclampsia and ended up delivering at 31 weeks and a day, and it was that moment where I went from being a woman to a mother and all of a sudden, I had all of these responsibilities that I expected the world to support me with. And wouldn't that be great? Right, like wouldn't that be great. But I experienced so many struggles of working motherhood firsthand, right off the bat, like the fact that I only had eight weeks of maternity leave but I had a child in the NICU for four weeks. And the fact that I was at a company that was predominantly white, male and it was tech. There was no mother's room for me to pump in. I was pumping in a bathroom stall. So all of those things. Really, it hit me that the system wasn't set up to support women immediately and the way it should, so it made me step up and advocate for change for us.
Speaker 2:I can relate to that. Like. I remember the moment where I realized that the doctor and the hospital aren't inherently going to make decisions that are best for me. That, like, if I needed something like skin to skin, or I want, like a patient consultant, like this isn't happening for you. I remember not knowing how to bathe my baby and like, for some reason that was in my head in the hospital, like I don't know how to bathe this baby. Like I I mean they're going to send me home. I'm not going to be able to do that and and having to be like advocating for, like will you teach me how to do this? Can I sign up for a? And that was a really hard reality to take in, but it's like our first foray into stepping into this. Like motherhood.
Speaker 1:And isn't that crazy? Because motherhood is such a nurturing and kind and compassionate and emotional occupation and you're introduced to it in such a transactional way by these doctors who cannot provide the culturally congruent care. I remember with Wes, who is my nine-year-old, my love of my life. But I was told, after I delivered him my blood pressure shot up in the 200s and so they were trying to do all these tests and figure out why that had happened. And then one of them included a CT scan and the neurologist came back to me and said a woman of your age shouldn't be having children. And that's probably what happened. And I was 29 years old at the time. And he came right in the room and said that that's probably why and I should probably not have any more children and I had planned on having five children. So I was devastated, like my husband at the time, couldn't that?
Speaker 2:is traumatizing.
Speaker 1:The thing about it, though, the GYN who I've had for years I love him he did provide that kind of care and he was like that guy is an ass for saying that. And don't worry about it. But like for every doctor who is there to comfort you, there's 10 others who are going to say ass things like that.
Speaker 3:I, first of all. I'm 29 and don't even have a boyfriend yet. So that is jaw dropping to hear. So I'm so sorry you had that experience. So we know that you are involved in some incredible advocacy work with Mom Congress, especially concerning maternal mental health policy. So can you tell us a little bit more about what's at stake and what you're currently working on?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, mom Congress is absolutely. When I found that organization, I was like finally there are a group of women across this country who get it and joining is so cheap. It's so cheap. It's only $5 right now to join, so please do. But right now we're working on advocating for our bill package, which is known as the mom's agenda. It covers so many things. It's really end-to-end care for mothers. The bills are bipartisan and basically they were bills that have been introduced by Congress that substantially improve the lives of mothers and families. They cover everything from postpartum depression to federal pay leave policy, to the type of care that women are getting, and right now we're gearing up for our next congressional briefing on saving and supporting moms in.
Speaker 1:DC on Capitol Hill, so I'm looking very forward to that.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. How big is this group and where like is this women across the country? How does it?
Speaker 1:operate. Yeah, women across the country, thousands of women. You just visit mom-congress to join us. But we have different caucuses that women can sit on, pertaining to what is most of interest to them. I am on the Black Mom Caucus and the Working Mom Caucus because those are what are of most interest to me, but there are a variety of different things on that agenda that women can get involved with and just advocate for at the state and the federal level when we get together on Capitol Hill oh, that's incredible.
Speaker 2:I'm definitely going to look that up. Hill oh, that's incredible. I'm definitely going to look that up. And you can just join whichever caucus you want to get involved with and you like, attend virtual meetings, exactly, and you're bringing your ideas or you attend virtual meetings.
Speaker 1:You share ideas, you share your perspective because we need action. Yep, we write letters, we support legislation with congressmen and you're trained. We also have advocacy training. So if you did want to reach out to your local congressman, you would get the training on how to come across as not just a crazy mom who's frantic, but somebody who actually is coming from a place of education and real solutions you had mentioned.
Speaker 2:You're working on an official letter to Congress to pass 14 weeks of maternity leave. Can you just like level set all of us on why this is needed, what's at risk if nothing changes and how we may be able to get involved?
Speaker 1:Yep, that's one of those things that Mom Congress is working on our official letter and it's infuriating because I recently wrote a post, a piece actually for Forbes that, oh my God like by the time I was done it, I was reading this data and it was saying that since 2019, maternity leave has been the only benefit that companies are actually ditching. They're like phasing it out, even though it's supposed to be there to support new parents. And, yeah, it's on the decline since 2019. The only benefit it's so crucial for a mom's mental health especially and what got me was that it was that it's declining and our nation is in the grips of a mental health crisis. Our president and vice president have put out an agenda to address it. That's the gag for me. So you decide that at the employer level, that that's going to be the benefit that you're actually starting to decrease.
Speaker 1:And it's not just about taking time off work, and that's not why we're advocating for it. It's about the mom's well-being during that vulnerable time and without the proper support. Obviously, it's all interconnected. It means less stress for moms if they have the more time for maternity. It means the mental health crisis we're facing improves. It's all tied together. So Mom Congress, right now we're endorsing a paid family leave program that at a minimum, allows the parents to care for and bond with their new babies, but also allows people to care for themselves or for family members when they have serious health conditions like postpartum or other mental health disorders. Pay leave should not be available to everybody if it means you could possibly lose your job. So we're also looking at that, but that's basically what the letter is.
Speaker 2:Can you help better define the problem, Like who is getting rid of leave Sure?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the article that's really the headline of the article that paid leave, maternity leave at companies has been on decline since 2019. The best place for working parents. Look at a variety of different companies at different sizes and found that most of the smaller companies are getting rid of paid maternity leave. But again, the gag is our country is overwhelmingly majority small businesses, so it's not the Googles and whatnot so few of us work for those companies. Right, it's the companies that are regional, who are in manufacturing or who are some sort of healthcare provider. Healthcare actually offers the worst support, which, again, everything was like oh, this is a gag, Like this is crazy to me that healthcare has the worst support for working parents. Yeah, that's fascinating. I agree.
Speaker 2:I worked at a psychiatric hospital and mental health system like one of the largest ones in the country, in PR years ago.
Speaker 2:And I had my first baby there and, yeah, I didn't get any paid leave and I thought that was fascinating. The other thing is paternity leave or, you know, partner leave. Sounds like that's really important and I think this research is like newer. But we were just talking to someone who specializes in postpartum mental health and she said that leave for a partner is really important because that's when they bond with the baby their brain starts developing. You know, changing to meet the needs of the baby. You know changing to meet the needs of the baby and when that happens it's less of a stressor on the mom or the birthing parent to meet every need and keep this baby alive, if that makes sense Absolutely, and what a bond it creates for those partners too.
Speaker 1:It's funny that you say that. I think of the only person I know who took paternity leave 30 years ago, and that was my uncle, and how close? He is to his three daughters and how strong his marriage is. My God, it's crazy to me, but he was the only person at the time whose company allowed for paternity leave.
Speaker 2:Yes, my husband was a teacher when two of my kids were born. One of them was born near the summertime, so he was able to take the summer with the kid and that was such a benefit. The other one, it was like less so. Have a small business and like leave is a challenge. One company that comes to mind is Parentally Alison Whalen, and she's just she's an incredible follow on LinkedIn, anyways, for anyone, any women who are like want to have a baby, pregnant, just had a baby, like navigating the conversations, what your rights are, how to talk to your employer, and I think that they work with employers on leave and they have coaching and all these things. Are there any other resources that you want to share or are aware of, christine?
Speaker 1:Not that pertain to supporting with leave, but there are a number of resources for women when they return back. I think of Lori at Mindful Return.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I love Lori, I absolutely love her, but she has a wealth of resources and I even sometimes try to cite, when I'm aggregating, all of the different resources available for moms as they return to work different places as well. I have many in my head right now to specifically speak to all of them. I'm really on a fam tech group and a parent and tech group and it's like it's just a lot, there's a lot fragmented it's and that's the sad a lot.
Speaker 1:There's a lot. Yeah, it's fragmented and that's the sad thing is because there is no solution. A lot of companies are trying a lot of working parents are trying to make their own solution, so it is a very fragmented market.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So notably you received a US Senate citation for delivering crucial content. You received a US Senate citation for delivering crucial content to Black moms and moms of color during the pandemic. Tell us a little bit about what that looked like and what was the impact.
Speaker 1:So I felt like during that time that it was really important for me to double down on creating content that centered around the unique needs and experiences and the strength during that time of Black moms and moms of color.
Speaker 1:Obviously the pandemic had a toll on us mentally, but the mental health disparities it only exacerbated it.
Speaker 1:For Black moms and moms of color it was ridiculous the amount of hours that those women were spending on child care compared to their white counterparts. So I tried to write content about that surface that that showed the increased stressors related to their health concerns, the economic instability, the systemic racism that they were facing. But wanted to write content also that talked about raising resilient children in the face of injustice and navigating those conversations about race and identity and addressing the unique needs of those children and talked about, from an actual vaccine perspective, the hesitancy around that and trying to debunk myths for those women and providing guidance on accessing healthcare and services safely and protecting their health and protecting their families so that they could stay at work. And then, just on a lighter side, just content that celebrated the diverse experiences and the voices of those women to foster like a sense of community and solidarity. So I really wanted to approach it holistically. So, as I was writing for Forbes and parents during that time, that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 2:That's incredible what a leader that you are and have been and were during all of that. It was such a tough time to be a leader too, because everyone was dealing with their own moments and shit, and so I commend you. That's incredible, like driving awareness, bringing solutions. Another like quality of great leaders, I think, is like when you bring people together to solve issues and like you don't need to be the only voice, like amplifying other voices, and I just see you doing that, and so I think that's incredible.
Speaker 1:I hate to be the only voice, because I feel like there's strength in numbers and you're not alone. A lot of the work that I do is just showing people that you are not alone.
Speaker 2:That's not like thought leadership or leadership. If it's about you, you know it's about solving for something, making our world better.
Speaker 3:And I just wanted to say I love how you touched on kind of debunking the distrust in the medical system, which is so funny because at the beginning of this podcast we just talked about how sometimes the medical system can really steer you wrong, or again you get a doctor who says something so out of pocket, and I love that you are leaning into those that we can listen to and how to navigate that system thoughtfully. One of the companies is kind of a side note that we work with through our work is called Health in Her Q. Have you heard of that? Yes, yes, yeah. So I got the chance to interview her, which was awesome, but she's all about promoting culturally responsive and culturally congruent care and I just love to see the work that's being done to connect those dots. So just wanted to shout that out there.
Speaker 1:That's dope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it has also been incredible to witness that so much of your voice and what you're known for is work that you do outside of your traditional marketing career. Where do you get the energy and what drives you to continue pushing forward?
Speaker 1:So I am not Beyonce. I feel like I don't have the same amount of hours in the day as beyonce. I feel like she has 86 you buy time and I have seven. I gotta get cooking dinner in there, serving on boards, writing articles and books and parenting yeah, how do you do all that? I am definitely the everything's fine dog with a cup of coffee surrounded by a house fire.
Speaker 1:I can do all things through the strength of coffee, but I mean, at least I own the house that's burning down Like that makes me feel good. I own my own house. So, yeah, but no, seeing the impact of the work that I'm doing and, like we said, feeling like I'm not alone and knowing that another woman feels really good about what I am sharing or putting out in the world is what keeps me going. And I think that when you're passionate about something, it's just like it's fuel for your fire. So it drives me to push change no matter what.
Speaker 1:And I think about things like the time and effort that I spent into advocating on Capitol Hill for congressmen to support the Moms Matter Act and for women of color, and it's paying off because more and more congressmen are doing that. But there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes. So in those moments that I am extremely exhausted and I've had a horrible day at work and I have to hop on to a mom Congress call to talk about how we're going to handle the advocacy day, it's remembering that it's. It's remembering that at the end of the day, there's some woman out there who's very thankful that I did that.
Speaker 3:And that's definitely something to be so proud of. And you know, how do you manage when someone you're trying to educate or advocate for doesn't take what you're saying, and how do you manage that like rejection or discomfort, or how do you not get discouraged, because I can imagine that is so tough to manage.
Speaker 1:I don't get discouraged because I feel like I'm so type A. You're going to listen to what I say and you're going to take it in. It's just a matter of me figuring out how you best take it in. That happens all the time, no matter what. Everywhere I go, I'm saying that Black women in this country aren't treated as fairly as their peers, and at work, at home, through the education system, through the judicial system my God, through everything, we are not treated as fairly. Whether you resonate with that when I write it professionally through Forbes, or from a satire perspective on social media, or from a compassionate place in parents, you're going to listen to what I'm going to say and you're going to have a reaction to it and you're either going to say, my God, I can't. I can't believe that she said that and I don't agree with it. But guess what?
Speaker 3:You took it in and that's all I want.
Speaker 1:Or it is going to inspire you to change, or cause or bring about change, or you're going to feel heard and understood, but damn it. You're going to feel something from what I write.
Speaker 3:That's where I come from. I love that and so, taking it back to a smaller scale, so how do you present information? Going into a meeting where you know someone outwardly doesn't agree with you off the bat Because I think this can apply to women in the workplace when they might be going to their employer to advocate for themselves, whether it's more time off or a promotion how do you go in there and present information concisely and with confidence in a way that it might be received? Because you're kind of climbing an uphill battle.
Speaker 1:Researching, socializing and examples, so that meeting that you're going into, that you're talking about, shouldn't be the first time that that person has ever heard what you are sharing with them.
Speaker 1:The first thing you want to do is research the topic and make sure that you have an argument that's supported and grounded in research. If it is something that has been done before, especially by a competitor, highlight that through the examples. And then the socializing is kind of just drip feeding that information bite, sizing that information to that person, casually bringing it up to other people who have served as allies for you and have a good relationship with that person, so that by the time you get to the meeting it's not as cold of a topic and they have a little bit of an understanding of your perspective even before they step into the meeting. I would never go into any salary negotiation or advocating for innovation within my company or advocating for more budget and resources, without having all of that happen in the background for a certain amount of time, without having done my research, having looked at what competitors are doing, having socialized that with my peers and people who I knew that person had a good relationship with.
Speaker 3:I love that because I do think we almost need to give the other person a little bit of grace and letting that opinion sink in so they have time to process it before they respond to you.
Speaker 3:So I think that's such a great message to send is like do your homework, don't go in blind and, you know, give that person a little bit of wiggle room to catch up to your opinion, which is right. So you know it makes a lot of sense. So you've said before get loud about your achievements, get loud about your experiences, get loud about your opinions and make sure everyone knows who you are and what you do this year, in 2024. So, while that's a powerful statement and we agree with it why do you think it sometimes stirs up an uncomfortable feeling and women continue to feel a certain way about taking up that space that they deserve?
Speaker 1:Well, I can't take credit full credit for that, because it was said by someone else on Facebook, but me being a guest on this podcast is what made that right. It made her right. It's exactly why I want to take up space, because had I not been inspired by her words to take up space and write that post, I might not have been a guest and shared my story here so that another woman would stop struggling with taking up space. So by doing so, we're not just helping ourselves, we're paving the way for others and increasing and amplifying our perspective into the world, which I think is so needed. So many women have been silenced, especially women older than us. So many women have been silenced and told that it's not about what you say, it's about how you look, and I feel like the more that we open our mouths and show, yes, I'm gorgeous as hell but I also have an opinion.
Speaker 1:It reframes a conversation. It changes things. We deserve that right to be beautiful and take up space with our intelligence.
Speaker 2:I love that. So you shared this on Instagram and I had known about you for years, both from like the marketing landscape, because you at the time you were in Baltimore. Are you still in Baltimore? I'm in Baltimore Yep, okay, I'm not anymore, but I knew of you from working for a company there and also in the working mom space and you're just generally on my radar.
Speaker 2:And then you posted this and it struck a chord with me and I think that's when I reached out to you like, okay, let's have a conversation. It's because the way you wrote it spoke to me emotionally. It stirred up something in me which I'm going through right now, which is having elevated my clients for 15 years to help them cultivate their voice and have confidence speaking about themselves and getting in front of the camera and behind the mic, and I have always stayed safely out of the spotlight. You know I've actually worked really hard and got really good and sophisticated at not being quoted in the media. You know a reporter calls me and I always say you know this is on background, but you can attribute this to so-and-so. I just became really good at not being seen.
Speaker 2:Now I feel like I'm at a moment where, like I have something to say, I am feeling like it's the right time to say it and I have a platform to say it on, and I am scared. I'm very scared because I've spent my whole life and many of us have been conditioned to not take up space. So the way you said that, I had these two feelings. One was who's she to say that she's done all those things? Any of us could say we can, we've done all these fancy things. And wow, she's saying all these things and she's done all these things. And that's incredible. I felt all of those feelings mixed up into one, and so I felt like we had to talk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I appreciate your honesty because I struggle with that. I even think to myself who am I to say all of these things? Right, but she said those things, but you've done all those things and I've done all those things.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about it, and you're going to talk about it. Exactly, I've done all those things Right.
Speaker 1:But I was like, who is she to say when she did her post? Who is she to say that she's done all those things, them? Who is she to say that she's done all those things? I felt the same way, totally. But I was like stop looking for the external validation. I can take up space because I've done those things. There's no no one else who has to say that I've done those things either. You don't need to do a profile on me. I can say that I've done those things and that's okay.
Speaker 2:Like be your own reporter.
Speaker 1:Yes, like own the conversation, even self-report, love yourself, love yourself, acknowledge the shit that you've done and what you've been through.
Speaker 2:Let's go a layer deeper because I love it. So I went through a time in my life when I've worked in many settings, but there was this one like particular time when I went from working at agencies for many years marketing firms, pr firms into working in house and I was in control of like pitching ourselves to the media. So I was quoted in some situations mostly I would put other experts, but I was getting so much press for us, like it was so fun. It was like all this, like fancy, exciting press and I would share that, I would share it all on LinkedIn and I would get so much engagement, so many likes.
Speaker 2:It was just like a fun time, like personal growth, and I was like why am I doing this? What am I trying to achieve? And I sort of like stepped back because I was like this is just for my ego, I'm doing this for the wrong reason, and so now I feel like a little bit more healed, a little bit more in touch with my why, and I'm both recognizing the importance of sharing impressive things, because like it does generate some movement towards my goals, and it almost feels a little bit out of alignment because or maybe it's me feeling imposter syndrome for some reason, because I did achieve these things, I did do these things, but it's like about that and not about me.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm no therapist, I love going deeper and I do understand exactly what you're saying. It's funny. You got to get out your own head no one is sitting there and woke up in the morning and was like I wonder what Maddie did today?
Speaker 2:Did she do that, no one cares.
Speaker 1:No one cares. No one cares like they'll read your post. They, if they are a true friend and a true for four seconds, they will acknowledge it and they will go on dealing with the shit in their lives.
Speaker 1:You're in your head too much. Really, there's no reason you shouldn't feel proud of what you did and share what you did, because you never know who is supporting you in the background and who will say, yep, I want you to be on my podcast or I think that you would be awesome to support me with this PR initiative. Rarely and I think that that's just the anxiety in all of us Rarely are people saying, like I said oh, I wonder what Maddie's doing, or she thinks she all that.
Speaker 3:OK, I am. It's such a hard thing to work through, because how do you not put your ego a little bit in everything? For me, you know, like writing, it's so personal. But it's like, how do I not have a little bit of my identity wrapped up in that? How do I not have a little bit of my identity wrapped up in that? And then if I write something I'm proud about, I do want to share it, but the fear in my mind is always like, do people think I'm annoying? That's always the fear.
Speaker 1:Us as creatives. That's like a whole nother level because I do that.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's what we're getting into.
Speaker 1:It is, it's us as creatives it is. It's a little bit of that, but also, everything is a range. You know there is going to be a little bit of ego. You don't want to be one of those people who has a lot of ego in it. I'll give you a great example.
Speaker 1:I was in the first grade and I had long hair this is obviously a wig right now, but my hair really was long in the first grade and this little girl, my aunt, was coming to pick me up and this little girl just started sassing at me and being rude to me and said I don't even like you. And my aunt was like why don't you like my niece? And she was like because she thinks she's all that with that long hair. And my aunt said something that has stuck with me to this day and she always teases me for it. She was like it's not that she thinks she's all that, it's that you think she's all that and you can accept it. Oh, love that, and that's what it is Like. At the end of the day, you can be proud of whatever. Whoever doesn't like it, that's their crap to deal with. As long as you're coming from a place of being proud of yourself and not egotistical, who cares?
Speaker 2:And like a little ego is okay. It drives us, you know, so fascinating, because I feel like again, like I've been coaching people to do this for so long and now I'm trying to coach myself and it it's a challenge. It is a challenge I'm going to be better for it. I'm going to be a better coach and leader for it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I feel like what's helpful too is understanding your intent behind it, because a good thing is to like detach from the outcome. Like, if your goal is to get a hundred likes on a post, probably shouldn't be doing the post Not the best goal.
Speaker 3:What are the likes going to achieve? Come on, I love getting likes. I love it. Of course, it's so fun to see people liking things and things coming in, but, um, if your original intent was to inspire a hundred people like, that's the right intent behind it. But you should be sharing your accomplishments because, um, outside of your direct circle of friends, coworkers, no one is going to know your expertise unless you don't share it.
Speaker 3:You're going to help more people. No one's going to look at your profile and go oh, I think she's a writer.
Speaker 1:You have to explicitly say it and be clear so many husbands who don't even know what their wives do, and vice versa.
Speaker 2:And no one would question any of this if a man said it. No, so let's just be clear, right Right.
Speaker 1:This morning I got a new tie. Oh, 100 light. He's putting so much effort I stopped eating mayo and I lost 30 pounds Right.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. How has taking up space and getting loud about your achievements, opinions and experiences changed your life?
Speaker 1:Well, it's always been the name of my game, but I feel like getting loud about my opinions and experiences really hit a critical moment, also pre-pandemic. So at the company you're talking about, I had been advocating for remote work, fighting for it. Fighting for it because I was a working mom with two kids and I was struggling and I knew that I could be productive if I just had a little bit more flexibility in my schedule. And at the time my manager was like absolutely not Everybody's in person. And the pandemic hit. And then everybody was forced to be remote.
Speaker 1:And I always say I feel like Chicken Little because I was like the sky is falling, we need remote work. And everybody was like no, it's not. And then it fell. And now we realize how remote work and flexibility are critical for working parents. And even though it was an I told you so moment for me, I was glad that I got loud really early about it, about my opinion on the importance of remote work, and it totally changed my life. I've been in remote positions since for the past four years and my career has continued to progress. It's not like I had to step out of the workplace, it's not that I'm not as present of a mother. It's remote work and the flexibility that has helped me to do that. So taking up space and getting loud about those advantages long before it became mainstream.
Speaker 2:If you imagine, not 90 minutes, getting 90 minutes back as a working parent or anyone from like a commuter, probably more than that, with like having to put on clothes and makeup and all of that Definitely.
Speaker 3:And so we touched on this a little bit before. But what is your main driver?
Speaker 1:it's definitely fighting for my children's future. Again, understanding how minorities are treated in this country, it makes me sick to my stomach to think that in 30, 40 years, my child or children could be experiencing the same things that I'm experiencing the systemic biases that I'm experiencing, the racism, the sexism that I'm experiencing because I think that my children are the best children on the planet, as every mother should. So if I want my children to have a world where they are treated like the king and queen that they are, I know I really understand that I have to build that world for them and I have to raise awareness with these other parents so that they're raising their kids to be kinder to my children in the future. That's really what it is. It's so selfish at the end of the day, but it is so that my children grow up in a better world. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Completely.
Speaker 3:I just can relate.
Speaker 2:The kids are your greatest teachers because they're like showing you what you need to know. We frequently my husband and I are frequently talking about like okay, let's fix this in ourselves so we don't repeat the same mistake. You know, our first child we're going to need to repair that, but our second, let's, let's fix this so we can.
Speaker 3:so we can, yeah, be better for her, her yes, you don't have to be so hard on yourself too. Me and my friends talk about this all the time. It's like did our parents mess us up or did society give us any wounds? And anxiety, and it's not. It's so a mix of so much. And the older I get, the more I give my parents so much grace and credit, because I'm like, how do they know what to do? Like this is just, it's an impossible world to navigate and it just seems to be getting heavier in some ways. But got to believe that most people are headed in the headed on a good path.
Speaker 1:It's the Michael Scott phenomenon. So it's like you know, if you're a big fan of the Office, which I am, I have to watch it. But he's like, if I am this way, it's because society made me this way. Like everything always goes back to society. Like you said, is it my parents that messed me up? Well, maybe society messed up your parents.
Speaker 3:You know I'm so, so happy you're a huge fan of the office yeah I always think about that show, with how it would play or you know, it gets a lot of controversy, as it should. Why I do feel like there are scenes that still work is because everyone in the scene around him reacts to his horrible behavior, and I think that's like the beauty in it a little bit. But the second part to that question is, despite having all these fears about you, know the world you want to build for your children and knowing that there's obstacles in the way, what makes you fearless despite that?
Speaker 1:So it is the unwavering belief that I have in the importance of that. I know that that never changes for me. That is the North Star that I feel like. That is the only way that, if you are trying to drive change, that you can be fearless, because you have to tie it back to yourself and make it something personal. I absolutely love the black community. Of course, I want success for everyone in the black community. I absolutely love America and love the world and all of that and want nothing but greatness and a tranquil environment and all the happies and the la-las and all the happies and the la-las. But how do I bring about that change but make it more personal and something that I'm passionate about and make it something that I can continue to push for and drive for in the face of adversity, because adversity will come? It's by remembering the mission, which is to make it more personal for me and make it about my children.
Speaker 3:Amazing and you seem so intuitive for that North Star, but how do you stay in alignment with it and how did you find it in the first place? Was it something that was like intrinsically there, or has it been cultivated over time?
Speaker 1:It's kind of been intrinsically there. I've always been the person who was advocating for change. Somehow I was, you know. I think back to when I was in high school. I advocated for us to wear a certain prom dress, and I think about when I was nine and one of the first drawings that I did in school for that year was like a picture of a strong black nation. So advocacy and change and voicing my opinion is just like I've always been that person. When motherhood came around, it's just there's something about it, like Matressa, I guess, hit me hard and I was like this world is just a disaster. It is an absolute disaster and it is full of all of these biases and just examples of horrible racism and sexism. And I cannot have my precious little babies in this world and grow up in the same world and have to just shrug things off like I did when I could possibly support change and bring about change so that they don't have to. I'm not just going to sit here idly by and watch this happen.
Speaker 2:I'm in awe of that a little bit. I didn't have any of that inherently.
Speaker 1:And that's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think, though the women I had kids relatively young I mean 26, I was the youngest sister so I think like maybe I was protected a bit.
Speaker 2:I was the youngest sister, so I think like maybe I was protected a bit. Yeah, I was the youngest sibling, I should say of four. And I remember, as I started having kids and got older, like I had someone close to me have miscarriages and all these things that I just like didn't understand for a while and I remember calling her and being like I am so sorry I wasn't there for you, like I did not know, I didn't know what was going on and she didn't tell me and that's okay. And so then, as I got older, I think like the one book that sort of changed my growth trajectory and started to open my eyes was how to do the work by Nicola Pera and really sort of like, yeah, think about your upbringing and think you know. Like just like, where were your traumas? And starting to face all that and like open your eyes as to like your why you are the way you why.
Speaker 2:I am the way I am, how I have to make change and then, like kids, naturally challenge you to do the work as well, and it just was like a journey for me and continues to be a journey for me. But I do think that doing the work is so important to start to understand your why and what you want out of life, because if we don't, there is just too much, we're doing too much, there's too much going on. And if we don't have that North star where sometimes I go in and out of feeling like I'm in a moment of like wow, I need to, I'm ready to go, I want to go to the next level of growth again, like you reach these plateaus and it's time to start doing the work again. And when we don't have it, like life feels like it's just going so fast, like why are we doing the with you? I keep saying I just want to lay in the forest and like what do we actually want out of life?
Speaker 1:And so, anyways, I think that was beautifully said, though, because there are going to be people who listen to this, who can relate to what I'm saying, where it just feels inherent, and there are other things. There are other people who are going to listen and say it wasn't that way for me, and that is okay. Not everybody's journey is going to be the same. Yeah, not everybody's drive is going to be the same, or what drives them. You know it's, so I think that was wonderful.
Speaker 2:Anything you'd like to add to this conversation before we jump to the final question.
Speaker 1:I would love for folks to visit my site, visit the blog. There's a lot of resources for working parents and the blog is split up by the common gaps that keep women from accelerating to the next point in their career. So it's split up by soft skills. There's advocacy there. There's time management, persuasion, work ethic all of those kinds of things. Christinemichellecartercom, thank you for asking M-I-C-H-E -L, and please follow me on social media. See Michelle Carter. I just hope we keep the conversation going media see Michelle Carter.
Speaker 2:I uh, just hope we keep the conversation going. Oh my gosh. Yes, okay, what is your favorite tool that's helping you?
Speaker 1:in working motherhood, right, always Beyonce. Beyonce helps me always. Huge fan love. What do you think is called cowboy Carter? Every time she does like I have a shirt that says the Mrs Carter show, because I went to that tour. Anything, mrs Carter, I love it. Or when she calls out her last name.
Speaker 1:But she did this video when she was going through matrescence and her first child was about one and she said I love my husband, I love the support that I have around me. I'm paraphrasing, but there's nothing like having a conversation with another woman who gets you and understands you and is going through what you're going through. And I'm telling you, if I wasn't a fan then I went six feet under with my fandom. It's just absolutely ridiculous how much I love her. But she's right. My support network and the women that I have around me are everything. They inspire me, they fuel me to know that I'm not alone. They're my inspiration for articles. They've been women that I can lean on because I am a single working mother. They've got my back Like. They've made that so clear and I have theirs.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, christine. This isn't easy work that you've taken on on behalf of all of us and hopefully it's inspiring. It's definitely inspiring me, hopefully inspiring others to do similar work, and you've just lit a fire under us. Yeah, you can find Christine Michelle Carter's social handles, website and books in our show notes. And thank you again.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me. Yes, this was fun.