Working Mom Hour

Making Breathing Room For Busy Moments

June 18, 2024 • Erica & Mads

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Motherhood is a demanding journey, especially when paired with a career. Today, we dive deep with Dr. Tamara Soles, a seasoned child psychologist and parenting coach, who shares insights on how to keep up with the "swirl" of working motherhood.

We'll explore practical strategies to navigate this complex balance, emphasizing the importance of self-compassion and realistic scheduling. Yes and yes to that!

In this episode, you’ll discover:

- How to manage the constant juggle of parenting and professional responsibilities.
- Strategies to identify and prioritize activities that truly add value to your family life.
- The significance of 'do nothing' time for both parents and children, fostering better mental health and family connections.

Timestamps:

- 0:00:00 - Introduction
- 0:05:00 - The parenting whirlwind and why we get swept up in it.
- 0:09:55 - Shifting away from what parenting "needs" to look like and exploring what time and space can do for a family.
- 0:13:57 - How parents can be the greatest agents of change.
- 0:19:37 - Sensory activities and sensitivities.
- 0:25:00 - The value of "do nothing" time.
- 0:31:27 - Traditional schooling and exploring other options.
- 0:39:58 - Self-care, acknowledging our own needs, and modeling boundaries.
- 0:49:04 - The importance of self-compassion in parenting.

Connect with Dr. Tamara Soles:

Website: https://drtamarasoles.com
Free PDF, "4 Hidden Reasons Your Child is Melting Down": http://drtamarasoles.com/meltdowns 
Course: "No More Powers Struggles" https://drtamarasoles.com/enroll 
Instagram: @drtamarasoles 
LinkedIn: Dr. Tamara Soles

Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode, and kindly review the podcast on Apple Podcasts so we can reach more working moms.

We always want to hear your thoughts, concerns, questions or guest suggestions – email workingmomhour@212comm.com.

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Speaker 1:

One of the challenges that has come with a lot of often wonderful parenting information out online and on social media is that it has actually removed parents from their ability to tune into their gut, and I think that one of the dangers of having scripts given to parents all the time what it does is it pulls parents out of their intuition and too much in their head and now they're like what did they say? That I should say in this moment, did I say that right, did I not? And we lose touch with the connection, which is the thing that is the most powerful in me powerful anyway.

Speaker 2:

Today, on Working Mom Hour, dr Tamara Soles talks us through how to shed the traditional models of parenting that can perpetuate a disconnection with our kids, while also finding the breathing room to make space in the swirl of activities and meetings and rushing that we've all become accustomed to. Dr Tamara is a mom of twins, as well as a child psychologist and parenting coach. You may have seen her in today's Parent Psychology Today or BBC World News. It's a pleasure to introduce her to you today. Help us welcome Dr Tamara Soles. Dr Tamara, thanks for being here.

Speaker 1:

Oh my goodness, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me, so let's start with the swirl.

Speaker 2:

The swirl. Working moms know all too well of activities and meetings and rushing around. Can you describe this whirlwind and why we tend to get swept up?

Speaker 1:

Yes, I mean, I feel like I could just give you a day in my life that will describe the whirlwind. But, you know, I think there's so many things that are going on and I find that at my stage of my professional career, as well as my personal life, you know, I've hit this stage where I have two 10 year olds you know, hitting that sandwich generation, caring for parents, caring for my kids, trying to care for my career and my clients, and there's just so much at play for working moms.

Speaker 1:

And when you add in the societal expectations of our children being in after school activities or being enriched in this way, or having play dates and being involved at school, there's so many expectations and most of them, certainly within the realm of the cisgender heterosexual relationships, often tend to fall on moms, whether they're working or not.

Speaker 1:

And that means that for working moms like us, we take on that mental load, we take on that scheduling, we take on the shuffling and everything and everything. And that keeps us spinning a lot of the time because we're constantly managing so many schedules, mentally and physically, are pulled in so many directions, and it just leaves very little room for the breathing space, which I know we'll talk more about but it leaves little room for reflection, for true connection. And I find that when I'm talking to the parents I work with, we end up talking a lot about how to shift out of that managerial mode and into parenting mode because we're so stuck in task managing and transitioning. We're in transition so much of the day, so it really is that whirlwind of parenting that falls on mostly working moms? How?

Speaker 3:

do we shift out of the managerial mode and like achieve breathing?

Speaker 1:

room, yes. So one of the things that I like to do with families is actually just sit down and look at their schedule together, and often parents will say to me and I know I feel this way when someone makes a suggestion to me, our immediate reaction is like there's no room for change. Nothing can be changed here. But I think COVID, for all the challenges it brought, it, did bring some reflection in terms of what we truly need. We talked a lot about keeping so many balls in the air and COVID allowed us to figure out which one of those were rubber balls and which one of those were glass, and so we can let the rubber balls go, but the glass ones have to stay up. So when I sit with a family and look at their schedule, we'll really look at is this really adding value? And even if it is adding value, is it adding a net gain in the sense that does it achieve more than it costs you emotionally, resource-wise, time-wise?

Speaker 1:

Because, yes, you know, one of the examples I often give when my children were little was I was swept up in that typical okay, they're three, they should do swimming lessons, and here I am trying to cart two three-year-olds into a pool to do swimming lessons and I'm running around and I'm the tornado right In this scenario. I'm the tornado running around the living room trying to make sure I have everything and my husband and kids are just kind of watching me. Even the dog is confused about what I'm doing and I feel like I'm hurrying everyone along. But in reality I'm just kind of watching me. Even the dog is confused about what I'm doing and I feel like I'm hurrying everyone along, but in reality I'm just kind of spinning and I'm thinking at the end of the day, why, like, why did I do this?

Speaker 1:

And I made the decision that we don't need to do swimming lessons because, even though it's great for them to be in the water and great for them to have that activity and for us to have that activity together, the cost of me going crazy, that we get there on time, that I hurry two three-year-olds out the door, the cost wasn't worth it. So it really does take some intentional reflection about what is adding value in our lives and at what cost. And is there some flexibility? You know, I love being at my kids' school and one of the reasons I love their school is there is a lot of parent participation. But sometimes I need my friends to remind me. You know you don't have to be at every single one of them.

Speaker 1:

You know, you can do some of them and you can let some other ones go, and that's okay. So there is, you know, for those of us who have more choice in our lives, we can look at those things more intentionally and try to shed what we think are expectations of us as parents and our children and really think about what value am I going to intentionally bring into our lives, so that it doesn't compromise our connection time, so that it doesn't compromise feeling like I am parenting and connecting, not just directing, all the time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, this is such an interesting and timely conversation. I feel like for me personally, when I had like the little ones and we would watch parents of older kids and they were gone every night, there was an activity every night. The kids were in these very competitive sports that now start a lot earlier than they used to, and my husband and I were like, oh, we were not going to do that, we're not going to be those parents. Everybody does this. At some stage you're looking at the ghost of Christmas future and you're like that's not going to be us. And then you get to that phase and you're like, oh shit, that's us. We're gone every single night from five to nine and that connection time and that family dinner and what we really valued and what was simple, sort of stopped very abruptly when they got to.

Speaker 2:

Really, this year I feel like middle school. My daughter hit middle school and this year it just got a little bit more serious for her too and she likes it. So it's not something that I can look at and say, well, I need the breathing room, so you're not going to do these activities at three. It's very easy to say you don't need to do, they don't know, you don't need to do swimming lessons but for her and my son in these sports. You know, taking a sport out entirely is hard to do. But we found I traveled this weekend and we found last night we were all a little tired and stressed in my house and I looked at each other and like let's play hooky from all the practices tonight. And we asked them we're like what do?

Speaker 2:

you think if we it was a beautiful night outside, Like what if we played hooky and we all went to the park and we still tossed a lacrosse ball around, but it was with us and not the team, and the kids thought it was like amazing that we had suggested. And I think maybe once a week we're going to look at a night and say, all right, this is going to be the night we take off from all of this.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, that's such a great point, erica, and I think you're absolutely right and that timing is pretty consistent for a lot of families in terms of when those interests really solidify and, of course, you're not going to just not have them in something that they're deeply passionate about, especially something in which they're moving their body and they're connecting all things that are helpful for their mental health also. But I credit a colleague, rachel Rainbolt, with this notion of the Venn diagram of needs and I talk about this with all families which is where does that overlap exist, right? So you have this need to be involved in this thing. It brings you joy, it brings you pleasure, you feel growth, you feel confident. I also have the need for some space, I have the need for some breathing room, I have the need for some connection. So it really does involve problem solving right, so that we don't sacrifice our needs as parents for their needs also.

Speaker 1:

So we're going to look at where that overlap is, and maybe that means that we do play hooky one night a week, or maybe it means that we play or come up with some creative transportation thing, if your child is old enough that they can take transportation on their own to somewhere, or they can arrange with a friend for carpooling so that you have a night off, or you find another place in the schedule where you can protect that time. Because that's what you did for your family. You decided, you and your husband, you decided to protect that time for everyone's sake, and they enjoyed the concept of playing hooky, but also that protection. And so it does get more complicated but it's still not impossible. And so if we get creative about how we can protect that time, that's key.

Speaker 1:

And I had said to my children, you know, as they started to develop their own interests, that there was only a certain number of activities that I could do a week with them and that they needed to pick. And thankfully, things cycle and there's sessions and things like that, which makes it a bit easier to say we're not going to do this activity every session, we're going to pick which two, because it's not practical for me or for my family, and I also know it's not practical for them to be in something all the time. But that's just one aspect of our schedules. Right, there's our own schedules too. But I really appreciate you bringing that point, erica.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, do you have any insights on the value of do-nothing time?

Speaker 1:

Yes, I love do-nothing time when I can find it. I love do nothing time when I can find it. You know, it's interesting because certainly what has been said about the younger generations in terms of their inexperience with doing nothing is true. Right, for many kids, even in the car they will either have a device or a TV or a something. And I had a conversation with my daughter when we were driving a long distance and she's like but I'm just supposed to stare out the window. I'm like you can do whatever you want in your head, you don't have to stare at the window. You can sing a song, you can do all kinds of things.

Speaker 1:

But it's that discomfort for many kids of doing nothing. But I would say there's also a discomfort for many parents and moms with doing nothing, because there's this notion of pride that exists when I hear moms say like I don't know when the last time I sat down was, and I think I sat down a few minutes ago. Why do you not know when you sat down last? To the point where, if that's a point of pride, we have really distorted what we're expecting from mothers and that when we're, even amongst ourselves, trying to say like, oh, I never sit down. That's not okay, and so I think there's discomfort, even for many of us as parents, with allowing ourselves do nothing, which is why I kind of think about it as breathing room. It's a lot easier to think about taking acceptable breathing room than it is to think about just doing nothing.

Speaker 1:

Right, there's such a focus on productivity, especially for working moms. I have to have it all. I have to be a great mom and a really productive worker or entrepreneur or whatever your circumstance is. But just being able to say no, I'm just taking that space, whether it's with my child or whether it's alone or with whomever. It's so, so important, but hard for many of us to do.

Speaker 3:

You've said that parents are like the greatest agent of change. What do you mean by?

Speaker 1:

that? Yes, you know, when parents seek out psychologist support, often they're at the stage that they're pretty desperate. They're really struggling, and that's not true for all, but for many, and understandably, the attitude often is like here, here's my child, please just make it better.

Speaker 1:

Fix it, make it better, and, of course, who wouldn't want to feel that way?

Speaker 1:

But ultimately, the reality of our profession is that there's nothing so magical that we're going to do in 50 minutes once a week that we couldn't teach you to do on a regular basis.

Speaker 1:

We have these skills and that's great, but they're not protected skills that are only available to a psychologist. I kind of view my job as helping to translate those skills and kind of interpret between the parent and child, but the parents are the ones that are with them day to day, not me, and so I much rather empower the parents to feel like they can use these tools. They can use these strategies and they're not magic, but we can work together to try to figure out what ones work for a particular family. So ultimately, they are not the cause of problems, but they are the agents of change, and I want parents to feel empowered. That is not that it's my knowledge that I'm bestowing upon them. It's not that it's this collaborative approach that together we can figure out what works for your family, and then you get to go implement that and we'll do some trial and error, but you're going to be the ones that are going to make this change work.

Speaker 3:

I do and that's such a. It's like a beautiful thing because it's like empowering, and it's a hard thing because it's like a lot on our shoulders, parenting in general. It's like we're forced into this or we're thrust into this role that we always feel equipped for. I do feel like in my eight years as a parent we've paid many thousands of dollars for many variety of therapists for our family and it was very useful because, you know, especially in the first few years, because I really didn't know what I was doing I still feel that every day I feel that way sometimes too. Still feel that every day. I feel that way sometimes too.

Speaker 3:

Oh, my gosh, none of us are experts.

Speaker 3:

I do feel like the more like in touch I have on my journey, like personal work journey, the more in touch I can get with like the way I'm feeling in my body and like the way I'm feeling in my mind and then sensing like how they're feeling in their body and then like my ability to discern what advice will work for us or what is working or what isn't working and sort of like navigate that on my own. It does feel like that compounds and, over time, like getting to a place where we do feel empowered, like we do know our child the best out of anyone, even the experts and, like you know, going with our gut. Um, at least for me, really, only in the past year, I feel like I've been able to unlock that a little bit. And it's scary because, like you have an expert telling you one thing and then like you're feeling something else and it's like who do I go with? But I think more often than not we know the answers in our that too. Any thoughts on that?

Speaker 1:

Yes, that's so beautiful, Mads because I think one of the challenges that has come with a lot of often wonderful parenting information out online and on social media, is that it has actually removed parents from their ability to tune into their gut. And I think that one of the dangers of having scripts given to parents all the time, right Like when this happens say this or don't say this, say this what it does is it pulls parents many parents, maybe not all, but many parents just out of their own head and out of their or I should say, really out of their gut, out of their intuition and too much in their head. And now they're like did I say? What? Did they say that I should say in this moment?

Speaker 3:

Did.

Speaker 1:

I say that right, Did I not? And we lose touch with the connection, which is the thing that is the most powerful. Anyway, right, Like you said, Mads, when you have that knowing of your own self and that allows you to then know them more deeply, and then you can use those moments to connect and come together with that curiosity and to work it out together, as opposed to kind of being like, okay, what did that professional say to do? What did they say not to say? Did I just say that? They just said not to say. Dr Becky approve of this? Yeah right, Even I have Dr Becky in my brain sometimes as I'm walking down the street. I'm like is she behind?

Speaker 2:

me Even I have Dr Becky in my brain.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes, as I'm walking down the street, I'm like is she behind me? It is hard because parenting has always been an intuitive sense. There's a biology that keeps us connected, right? Attachment is a built-in safety feature and we often talk about attachment in parenting world and I admit it's myself and my profession that is often guilty of this but we talk about attachment as this loving relationship piece and connecting with your child. The fact of the matter is attachment is a safety device. Attachment means that when we have a secure attachment with our child, it allows them to safely explore the world and know that they can come back to that safe place. So it's a safety mechanism and once we can tune into just that connection and that relationship, we're going to be okay.

Speaker 1:

But when we have so much noise that gets in the way of that biologically predetermined formation of attachment, it gets muddied and it gets difficult. But what you described, mads, of being able to come back into tune and be attuned with your body and that allows you to be attuned to them, that's what we're talking about, right? So I often talk about attunement with parents, which is just, how can you read their cues and signals? Not 100% of the time, because we're never going to read them 100% of the time, and the good news is they don't need us to read it 100% of the time, they just need us to try and to kind of catch it every so often so that we respond in a caring and empathetic way. But it's really just about coming back to that biological connection and attachment and not so much about everything that we say and every word that we say and how we did it, but really coming back into that intuition that we've removed from so many parents, unfortunately.

Speaker 2:

So good. I'd love to piggyback on this and talk about this concept. You talk about shifting away from what parenting needs to look like and exploring what time and space can do for a family. Do you mind elaborating on that a little bit? I think you've started with the attachment and following your own intuition.

Speaker 1:

Yes, of course. I think that there is a mainstream pathway for a lot of families and it's supposed to unfold in a certain way, whether it's developmental milestones, whether it's how you educate your child, whether it's how you work and all of that. There's a pathway and I think when your gut is telling you that maybe your family is adjacent to that pathway or maybe your family runs perpendicular to that pathway, that can be really anxiety provoking, because everyone around you is telling you that's not the way it should go, or is projecting their own anxiety about being off the path and putting that on you. Potentially there's lots of reasons why people protest that. But I want families to be open to whatever possibility works best for them, and I don't have a particular pathway in mind for a family, except one that is rooted in connection. So I don't have an agenda about whether you co-sleep or you don't, whether you homeschool or you don't. That's not my concern. My concern is what works for you as a family, and that does mean sometimes being open to stepping off the conventional path. Right, that does mean reflecting on the difference between what we carry as expectations versus what we can intentionally evaluate in terms of our values as a family and then how that plays out. And so because of that, there's all kinds of parenting shoulds right and we all talk about stop shoulding all over yourself, because these shoulds are not helpful to you. You really just need to try to tune out the noise.

Speaker 1:

But, as you alluded to, mads, I think it's so hard because I remember even sitting in my own therapist office because I think therapy is valuable, and I remember being in there talking about the overwhelm of taking care of so many people and here's what I wish so and so would do, or this person would do, or how they could help. And I remember just feeling like, why am I the one here? It should be all them, right? Like sometimes it just feels like it's just another thing for us to do and we talk about carrying that mental load and emotional load and then on top of that, then we're responsible for readjusting it too, like that's not okay. So I talk to families about how do you sit down regularly, be it every season change, be it whatever timeline works for you, and in that moment be like okay, let's do a. You know a state of the union, what has been working for us, what isn't working for us? How far have we drifted from what we value as a family and how do we bring that back and being open to being creative about what that looks like.

Speaker 1:

And again, I recognize there are many families that their options for change are limited for many reasons, whether it's societal, structural, racism, financial constraints. There's lots of things that make it difficult. But I've yet to meet a family, under any circumstance, that didn't have some power to change something, and often we underestimate how much power we actually have. We always have a choice. Those choices may come at a cost, right, sometimes families will decide you know what continuing to live in a city where it's expensive and that means that I'm working 60 hours a week, live in a city where it's expensive and that means that I'm working 60 hours a week, doesn't actually work with how I want my family to look.

Speaker 1:

Maybe I do need to be open to shifting where we live, what my career is or what type of schooling we do, and it doesn't always have to be that drastic of a change.

Speaker 1:

Maybe it is like I let go of how I think my kids should be fed and that you know it's okay to have pasta two nights a week, three nights a week, whatever it is, but there's more room for change than most of us feel that there is. But I also think that traditional parenting, this sort of rooted in rewards and punishment and consequences, keeps parents in this sort of monitoring phase all the time and it doesn't allow that space for just being and collaborating. And I want parents to shift to something that actually works better in that, you know, rooted in connection way, because it will actually free up a ton of time when you let go of having to say no to things that really you probably don't need to say no to and you can stop trying to monitor every little thing. And do I give this a consequence? Do I give this a punishment? What do I do when you can let go of a lot of that? It frees people up in so many unexpected ways.

Speaker 3:

I feel like you're speaking to my soul right now and I don't quite know how to respond, but, like, just in the I don't even certainly wasn't planning to share this, may cut it out later as you wish but just in the last like two days, I had this like and I've had I have had it like once before and I think I tried to ignore it the feeling just like in my gut, this like pit in my stomach, that this like traditional school path is not serving us. And it is very scary because of all the things you said. And it is very scary because of all the things you said and the effort it would take to like build something new. And like a fear that like we could deliver what they need. And I just like found myself up last night for hours like researching like what are other options and thinking about like each of my children.

Speaker 3:

And yesterday, um, after like an activity, I was just holding my five-year-old in the parking lot because we were waiting like another 25 minutes for my other kid to finish and she was like I want to go home and I was just holding her and I just like, for some reason, I was like, hey, caroline, if you could like do whatever you want every day, like what would you do? What would that look like? And she said home days.

Speaker 3:

And then she said, homeschool. Wow, it was very powerful and, like my husband said, he also hasn't been able to stop thinking about it, but it is so.

Speaker 3:

it is so different, but like I want them in nature. My eight-year-old just wants freedom. We live near the water, which is beautiful, but our house is very small and we don't have a yard. I kind of want, like them, to just be outside, and so I am going through that right now, and I appreciated what you said, that like you can get creative with your life and that we have more power than we think we have. Thank you for that.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you for sharing that, mads. I know it's. You know, when it comes to school, it's not just school right, it's potentially, you know, upending our whole life. You know our whole life in so many different ways, and I like work, yeah yeah, and I've helped many families make that transition and, my God, it's fucking daunting. Right To do that, because there's so much at play.

Speaker 1:

And one of the things that comes up most often if I can just go down this road for a minute for this is that the biggest barrier for many families I know, and particularly for the moms, is a mistrust or a lack of trust that you'll be able to do it. And I guarantee you you can. I guarantee you you can. And here's why I can say that, right, you're like we just met. I'm wearing a Rise Up Coffee hat. How the fuck do you know if I can do this? Here's how I know a rise up coffee hat.

Speaker 1:

How the fuck do you know if I can do this? Here's how I know. Here's how I know, because when you learn how kids learn and trust me, it has nothing to do with the classroom but when you learn how kids learn and how to follow curiosity, then you know how to teach your kid. Because your job as a teacher, in whatever realm whether it's homeschooling, whether it's helping your kid with homework, whether it's a teacher in a classroom theoretically your job is not the imparter of wisdom, your job is the facilitator. So you know, go get your wisdom. So some do go to a community center weekly and get more sort of group lessons. Sometimes it is just connecting people with mentors in the environment or going to museums and having docents explain things Really. So that's how I know you're capable, because I can hear you tuning into your children and tuning into yourself, and if you can do that in this process, you can do that wherever you go forward.

Speaker 2:

Thank, you, we can cut this out. Mads, I want to give you a giant hug, and I think I told you when we went to the Baby Backwater event the majority of entrepreneurs there had homeschooled their children, and to be in community with folks talking about this from such a positive, empowering place and then also seeing where their kids are in the world. And there were two resources that they gave me and I'll give it to you when I see you next, but one is a book called Courage to Grow and it's about the Acton Academy. So you're not doing it alone, but there are resources and homeschool programs that exist that support your little learners. So I made a note and pulled it up and I'll get you those too. But you wouldn't be totally alone in this. Even as daunting as it may seem, You're not alone in this feeling like traditional school is not the path for us.

Speaker 1:

To be honest, I have found, for most of the homeschooling families with whom I've worked, they have found more community homeschooling than they ever did when their kid was in traditional school.

Speaker 3:

It's fascinating because you're like-minded.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and because you're intentionally trying to create community right, Because everyone's concerned about the socializing yeah totally. Which doesn't happen for most kids. You know it's like 15 minutes a day. They're allowed to speak to each other, so it's. But when you're intentional about it, then it becomes a community.

Speaker 3:

So I have found most families have more community through homeschooling than they do in traditional classrooms, like if you go into this space, everyone learns to be more self-sufficient and give each other space, like that feels like a healthier existence and like everyone's going to be probably a little more regulated. If they're just like playing in nature and stuff and your schooling can happen, it sounds like in a small window, like we could find a way to still work, like I'm not, truly I'm not looking to be their teacher, I don't, I can't do that, right, yes, but I, yeah. Anyways, thank you for this.

Speaker 1:

Of course, of course, but you know what? It kind of comes back to the point of flexibility and that we don't have a lot of flexibility in our lives, and so the more that we can try to intentionally pull in flexibility, then that's, you know, that's great. I am very lucky that my career was intentionally chosen in order to work around my children's schedule and they're 10 now. So because I do a lot of work outside of my clinic, right, parenting courses and podcasts and things like that, they're now at a stage where they are just outside running around, right, and they're you know, and they don't need me hovering over them. They're gone for a bike ride for half an hour, and so when they do that, I'm like, great, I'll pull up something and I can edit something that I was working on.

Speaker 1:

So we can, we can pull in flexibility while still honoring where we're each at. And there's no, you know, I have no shame about working on an article while they're playing, because that's the stage that we're at and the beauty of how we have things set up, and, of course, it doesn't go smoothly a hundred percent of the time, but the beauty of how we have it set up is that, yeah, I can do that sometimes when they're just playing, because we also have lots of other time to connect. It's not my only window, so trying to bring that flexibility in when we can and however makes sense for us is really important.

Speaker 2:

And you can get creative too. It doesn't necessarily have to be a homeschool, but it could be like a Montessori environment where it feels so. I loved the Montessori experience for my kiddos but it stopped when they got to kindergarten. But they are outside and they're learning and they're exploring and they're with other kiddos that need the same sort of thing that they do and they're leading their education versus the other way around.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, If you don't know her already, Mads, the Rachel Rainbolt that I mentioned she runs Sage Family, she has Sage Family podcast and she talks about homeschooling constantly and she lives in the Pacific Northwest and she, when her kids were younger, did what they called hack schooling. So every week there was like a big outing and the community around there would do this outing and then everything else was pretty, you know, loosey-goosey along the way, and so she talks a lot about how she aligns her entrepreneurship with homeschooling. So you might want to check that out.

Speaker 3:

Oh, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Can we talk about sensory sensitivities and how they can affect how we interact with our kids and respond to our environments? Talk us through how to manage these sensory sensitivities and what sensory sensitivities are.

Speaker 1:

Yes, great question, because I think it's something I talk about a lot in my work. But for many of us we just think about senses as like our smell, our taste, our touch, our hearing, our vision. But there's also two other important elements, which is our vestibular sense and our proprioception, and those have to do more with where our body is in space, where our head is in orientation, and there are a lot of kids with varying proprioception needs, which is how our body takes in information through our muscles and joints and knows, kind of, where it is in space. And when we don't understand our children's sensory profile and I don't mean they have to deep dive into it and get specific numbers, but just kind of understanding what works better or worse for your child then we may miss the boat. And I often give an example of a family that I worked with where the parents came in and said you know our kid every day at dinner they're just kicking the chair and they're driving everyone.

Speaker 1:

Nuts Like hearing that sound is driving everyone nuts and so, and they're like nuts, Like hearing that sound is driving everyone, yeah, yeah and so, and they're like we've tried to say you know, stop. We've tried to tell them that if they didn't stop they're going to have to leave the table and if they didn't stop then we're going to take away dessert. And they've tried all the things, right, all the things. And ultimately, unless we figure out why they're doing that, we're going to keep ourselves in this tension with our child and we're going to be ineffective and they're going to feel the tension and this constant badgering and nagging. And so for that child, as it turns out, they just have a high sensory need for proprioception. So their body is kicking because that sensation of hitting something with their foot is giving that information. I liken it to someone who likes to run right. So their body is getting a lot of proprioception from running. They're pounding the pavement, as we say, which is giving a lot of sensory information to our bodies. Or those of us who like massages guilty, if you like, those deep pressure massages that's proprioception. So you're getting proprioception. Or when you feel better, when you're chewing gum, that's proprioception. So all of these different activities that are proprioception giving activities are often underlying a lot of our kids' behavior. And so we might have those kids who are literally bouncing against the walls and we're like they're literally off the walls and sometimes we think about ADHD and maybe that's the case. But sometimes it really is just that proprioception seeking, and especially for a kid, especially younger kids, who need to move so much but are limited in terms of how much movement they can have during the day, if they're in a traditional school environment, then they do come home and bounce off the wall and so we need to look at how do we give them that sensory input so that they can regulate. So, coming back to that example of kicking the dinner table chair or legs, we put those resistance bands around the leg of the chair and then they just push back against the resistance band. It doesn't make any noise and we come back to that Venn diagram of needs so everyone can sit at the table without the annoying sound of that. But that child still gets that proprioception and there's no punishment involved, there's no consequences, there's no counting to three or leaving the table. We all stay in connection, but we focus on what was underlying the behavior. So that's what I mean by thinking about sensory sensitivities.

Speaker 1:

So anyone who's ever come shopping with me in Ikea knows that my threshold for visual you know sensing is pretty low or sound is pretty low. So how do we get around that? My husband does the grocery shopping, because I find it overwhelming in a grocery store. I just have to give up the fact that I'm missing out on good deals at Costco Because I have to just accept those things. I know where my threshold is and that's important as a parent too.

Speaker 1:

Like we talk about knowing our kids' thresholds but knowing ours also.

Speaker 1:

So for me, for example, if I'm you know, the other day I was helping one of my children and I was talking to him and then his sister started talking and then I can hear my husband on a call in the background and all of a sudden I get too many inputs and I'm out.

Speaker 1:

But instead of just losing it most of the time I can say like, oh, that's too many sounds for me. You know, I need to have a moment and then we're going to go one-to-one. But the problem is is that our children don't necessarily know that about themselves yet. Some of us don't even know about it ourselves. So the more that we can start to notice patterns and the more that we can start to give them the language of saying I'm overwhelmed, it's too noisy here, it's too busy here, or my body feels like it needs to bounce or move, then we can actually get at the root of things and give them what their bodies are seeking, because their bodies will seek it out no matter what we try to do Right. So we want them to understand it and we want to try to understand it, both for them and for us, and then try to figure out how to get those needs met.

Speaker 3:

So you're saying, in those moments for us, when we're feeling overloaded, we can. We can meet their needs if they're bouncing off the walls and also like show us acknowledging our needs and taking them.

Speaker 1:

Is that you know, some parents that I've worked with, who do get overstimulated with noise, have found real benefit in using, you know, the sound reducing yeah, like earplugs or loop or you know any of those ones that just reduce sound a little bit. But absolutely, you know there are. It is perfectly okay to set boundaries for ourselves as parents too, if we're touched out, if we are just, if we've had too much and we need a break. Modeling that also shows them how to set good boundaries for themselves. So it's important to not just keep going.

Speaker 1:

You know, one of the things I see happen for a lot of us is something will kind of happen that's mildly annoying and we just try to let it go. We try to just ignore it and try to let it go, and that keeps happening. It keeps happening and we just try to let it go. We try to just ignore it and let it go, and that keeps happening. It keeps happening and then we blow up and our kids like what just happened? Like why did you just blow up? Because they didn't see all the work we were doing all along. Try to keep regulated.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And instead of just trying to suffer through it, if we set that boundary earlier, it goes better, right? So my son loves to bounce a ball off of any wall in our home, apparently. But that sound of that ball incessantly will drive me batty, depending on how tired I am or how you know how the day has gone. So there are some days when I'll have to say right from the get-go you know, if you want to play with the ball today, either mommy's going to have to go take a break upstairs for a little bit, or you can do it downstairs, or we kind of think about a time that we do it and then we shift to something else. So, proactively, I'll try to again find the way to meet both of our needs. You can bounce that ball, but I also need to not hear it over and over again.

Speaker 3:

I wish I could use some of those tactics in some work-related meetings. Sometimes, erica's like I see you breathing through this and I'm like this has been 50 minutes of mind-stimulating stuff. Okay, you've touched on the idea of approaching daily challenges by asking ourselves like, how would my best self handle this? And then blend it with where we are in that moment. Is that kind of what you're talking about now or is that something different? Can you elaborate?

Speaker 1:

Yes, yeah, you know, one of the things that comes up often with families is that there are particular trouble spots in our days and they tend to be pretty predictable. With families is that there are particular trouble spots in our days and they tend to be pretty predictable Morning routine, transition times, homework, getting off of technology, getting ready for bed right, those very predictable trouble spots during our day. And so, because mindset plays a huge role in how we respond to our children, one of the tools we can use is to try to think in advance okay, you know, before I start trying to get them ready for bed, how would my best self handle this? And it kind of takes where we are right now and just puts us in a slightly different frame of mind. And even if we can't reach that best self in that moment, for whatever reason, we can at least come closer, and it means that the tools that we might use in that moment will bring us closer to responding in a way that we want to right. And so it's really just about intentionality and mindset.

Speaker 1:

And how can we go into a situation that you know our experience tells us could be challenging and rather than having what Dan Siegel calls shark music playing, right, that something bad is about to happen, right? Instead of that shark music playing in our brains, we get to say, okay, this is actually how I know I could handle it best. Can I get close to that, right? So you know, for me, for example, I know in a particular moment that if I could make a joke or something, it will diffuse me quickly and it will diffuse the situation. And sometimes I'm like I'm not going to make a joke, right, like you feel stuck in that.

Speaker 1:

And then other times you're like, yeah, just lighten it up, just lighten the mood, do it, it'll make it easier. And so it's just trying to think about those things intentionally before going into them. Because when we go in with that shark music, we're primed right, our nervous systems are primed for battle. We're like, okay, bring it on, I'm ready, we're going to go down this road again. Everyone's going to be screaming, everyone's going to be crying, everyone's going to be doing this or that or saying no. And so, rather than priming ourselves for the fight, we can prime ourselves for the collaboration a little bit more.

Speaker 2:

We'll end with one more question, but before we get there, was there anything we didn't cover that you had hoped?

Speaker 1:

we would. I suppose we covered it a little bit, but I think it's always important to be really explicit about the importance of self-compassion when it comes to parenting, because there's so much demand on us and every parent is trying their best right. But when we don't acknowledge that there is so much that we bring to an interaction, right, our own childhood experiences and I don't just mean extreme traumas, but just our day-to-day experiences as children they come up right and we're going to be triggered by these things. And when we don't acknowledge that that's a normal part of parenting and we keep thinking that we're failing for being triggered, or that we're failing because we're juggling so many different things, that's so unfair and so unrealistic. And so if you wouldn't say it to a friend, don't say it to yourself, right? So trying to just bring up that self-compassion, because I'm 47.

Speaker 1:

And you know, as I was younger, there was a lot of talk about like women can have it all and you can do this and you can do that, and no one ever really meant like thought about what having it all means and what that looks like and what the cost is Right.

Speaker 1:

And so you know when people are like have children later and wait until your career is established. And then you're 47 and you're like hitting menopause with two kids and parents. You're like, wait a second, maybe 25 would have been good. So a lot of it is just kind of trying again to shut out the noise of what expectations everyone is kind of holding us to account and just being able to say like I'm just going to try to do me and my family and just have that compassion for the fact that this is hard. It is really really hard and still, historically, we're doing something pretty new in terms of parenting right Of women working in an age of the type of technology and the type of access and exposure that kids have. We're doing something really quite new. So of course we're going to struggle and of course it's going to be hard and we do have to ask ourselves sometimes are we expecting too much of ourselves too?

Speaker 2:

Okay, let's end our time together by asking you what is your favorite tool right now that serves you in working motherhood?

Speaker 1:

It's hard to pick a favorite, but one of my favorite that I am learning because it doesn't come easy to me and it hasn't historically for lots of reasons is delegation.

Speaker 1:

That is one that has. You know, I've always had the like I can do it, I can do it better, I'll just do it myself all of that, and I'm really learning to trust other people in doing these things. For me, and I think, as a working mom, that's necessary, and whether that means delegating professionally or whether it means letting my husband be responsible for picking out the birthday gift for the birthday party and just hoping for the best, learning to let go of some of those things is important. So for me I'd say that's one of the biggest tools is just being able to really shift. How I can let people into that emotional and mental load that I'm carrying and trust that whatever happens happens and they can figure it out. But on a day-to-day basis, what helps me is that my daughter is on a real entrepreneurial bent because she's saving up for some Lego. So she created an at-home spa that has a full Canva like a menu of items, and so I often take advantage of her guided meditations or her head massages.

Speaker 3:

Yes, it's so fun. That's awesome. My husband's in leading my kids through meditations at night and it's like very cute, it is so fun, it's so fun. We really appreciate your time and your wisdom. Thank you again. Can you tell our listeners quickly where they can best find and follow you for more Of?

Speaker 1:

course. So my website is Dr Tamara Souls, so that's D-R, of course. So my website is Dr Tamara Soles, so that's Dr Tamara Soles. And you know I have a tool on there. That is the four often overlooked reasons your child is melting down. And I often encourage parents to start there because, you know, that kind of gets into some of the sensory things and some of these other structural things that are happening in our family. So that's there and that's free if anyone is interested in that. But my website and Dr Tamara Soles is my handle on all social media, so you're welcome to find me anywhere along that journey.

Speaker 3:

Amazing, Dr Tamara. Thank you so much. All of that is linked in our show notes.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much, this has been wonderful, all right, bye-bye.