SHRM Steps In It Again - Let's Take the E out of DE&I

Cece's back from maternity leave and she's sharing all the highs and lows of transitioning back to the office while leaving her little one at home. Hear her heartfelt stories about reconnecting with colleagues, the bittersweet moments of motherhood, and the unexpected project challenges her team had to juggle in her absence. Warren is also diving into a new chapter of his life, embarking on a grad school journey after 30 years. Listen to his candid tales of adapting to online education and the surprising advice he received to take a human resource management class, despite his extensive background in the field.

Are you trying to make a career leap from education HR to the corporate sector? We've got you covered. Tune in as we discuss the ins and outs of leveraging local SHRM chapters for networking, demonstrating your business acumen, and making the most of remote job opportunities. We share our insights on the value of professional communities in large cities and how engaging with them can pave the way for a successful career transition. Whether you're in Dallas or another metro area, you'll find practical advice to help you navigate your next steps.

The HR landscape is ever-changing, and we're digging deep into SHRM's recent decision to shift from IE&D to I&D. This move has sparked a variety of reactions within the HR community, and we're breaking down the potential impacts on inclusion and equity. Join us for a thoughtful discussion on whether this change prioritizes the right issues and how it might affect marginalized groups. We'll also touch on the broader implications for DEI programs and share our own experiences with professional organizations, the nuances of networking etiquette, and the generational differences in engaging with HR events.

Chapters

• 0:19 Return to Work and Personal Updates
• 10:37 Transitioning From Education to HR Networking
• 19:55 SHRM's Shift to Inclusion
• 32:58 HR Networking and Association Value
• 45:27 HR Networking and Local Chapters

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:19

Thank you. These HR experts' views are not representative of their past, present or future employers. If you have ever heard my manager is unfair to me. I need you to reset my HR portal password, or Can I write up my employee for crying too much? Welcome to our little safe zone.

Speaker 2: 0:57

Welcome to Jaded HR. Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR professionals who want to help you get through the workday by saying everything you're thinking but say it out loud I'm Warren, I'm Cece. Right Back again. So how's baby doing?

Speaker 3: 1:15

Baby's doing good. I returned back to work, so our time off is officially over.

Speaker 3: 1:22

It was. It's weird. So I think it really is because I'm equal. I was equal parts, really sad to be separated from the baby and you know you don't want to leave her and oh my God, I'm gonna go back to work, I'm gonna miss all these milestones. And then on the other side, I'm excited to talk to adults and have conversation where I don't have to talk in a beautiful melody. So it's, it's been, it's been equal, like I think both things can be true. I think you can like have that guttural maternal reaction of being like I need to stay home, but then the other piece is like I need to be my own person. So it's been pretty cool. It's reminiscent of when you were in middle school and high school and you got the summer off and you got to like go back and see all your friends again and start fresh. So that's kind of where I'm at right now. I feel like I'm starting a new job, but I already know how to do it.

Speaker 2: 2:21

Has anything changed since you left and did anybody ruin the work you left behind? You always hear horror stories of people you know. I left this project 90% of the way done and all they had to do was push it across the finish line. And I come back and it's you know all F to hell and everything anything like that.

Speaker 3: 2:40

So nothing like that. But I couldn't have planned it better myself. I actually left right when we were launching our engagement survey, so I literally started the calls with our vendor, I wrote everything out, made checklists, everything that we have to do, and then I came back and everything was like done and we're already in the what is it? The planning phase. So I'm like, yes, like I got to miss all that. But this is the second year in a row where our project manager on the vendor side got fired halfway through our project. So it caused kind of a kerfuffle with, not like, the person who is taking on the project management on our side, because that person had never done engagement surveys before. So it was just kind of behind the scenes madness of my, my boss, who's the vp like having to step in and do it, and it was. It was a little messy, but the great part was is like it was messy, but it wasn't because of me and if I was there it wouldn't have been as messy.

Speaker 2: 3:49

so it's kind of like they made, you made them miss you they, I made they.

Speaker 3: 3:55

You know I am invaluable and yeah, I am. I'm happy to be back and I'm glad they learned that lesson of how important I am yeah, yeah, awesome.

Speaker 2: 4:04

Remember to write that in your review, you know.

Speaker 3: 4:06

How about you? What's going on?

Speaker 2: 4:08

What's going on with me? Well, I applied and got accepted to grad school, so, yay, doing that in about three weeks start. So you know I'm significantly older than you. I had a meeting with my advisor last week to talk about the classes I was registering for, and I'm doing it online and online education is completely new to me. So I'm meeting with him, I'm discussing okay, I already selected one class and I do want to take more than one class a semester, but I was thinking of starting with just one class to ease into it, because it's been 30 years since I've been in college and I've never done online education. So it's going to be new to me and I wanted to get an easy. And I'm explaining this to him. He said well, the class you're taking is good, the professor has good ratings, if you go to rate my professor dot com and all that other stuff. And he's saying, okay, so he goes, you should be able to get an A in that class. I'm like, okay, and he says but I do encourage you to take a second class. So you're not in this MBA program for the next four years. You want to get done and everything I said well, you know I'm not in a hurry, it's a personal thing, nobody's requiring me to do it, I'm just wanting to do it myself. And so he suggested that I take human resource management. I don't think he's seen my resume or background or anything, as my elective. He says oh, that's an easy A, everybody gets an A in human resource management. So I did register for human resource management. So I am taking two classes and, yeah, it will be interesting.

Speaker 2: 5:45

My, my new HR assistant. She's on vacation right now and I'm about to go on vacation. But her and I were talking about her goals and she wants to get her certification. I was include, you know, not going to discourage her. So certification is is nice and we're about to shit all over Sherm again in just a few moments. But she was saying, oh, I want to get about a year of experience in so I know how the real world works.

Speaker 2: 6:06

I was like stop. I said the number one suggestion I'll give to you is the real world and the SHRM exam are two different things. And I said well, you've got the book knowledge in your head. I said I think the window's already closed. At least when I took it last time, they only opened it in February and August September time frame and I said maybe you should look at February and why the book stuff is fresh in your head. And I said you're going to have to cram all this other stuff that you're never going to need again in your life into your head. And I told her I would encourage her to do it and to think about that and do it in the next opening, the next window to take it. So we'll see. But yeah, I'm interested to see how they teach it. And another thing that's going to be interesting the reason I'm getting my MBA is when I get to retirement age I want to potentially be an adjunct instructor. Just do it a little bit on the side and see how they do it. As I know, in college I really liked the professors who had real world experience versus just the pure academics. So yeah, that's one big thing in my world.

Speaker 2: 7:16

And I am about to embark on a cross-country driving trip from the great state of North Carolina out to Utah to visit my daughter who I haven't seen since Christmas when she got married, and so my son, my wife and I are packing the car and we're driving and we're going to drive it all the way to Utah in two days and there's three of us driving, so we'll be able to split it up. Well, I know that means I'm doing 90% of the driving. My son and wife have already said they're not driving in mountains and they're not driving in any cities, and the way I've got it routed out, the only two cities we're really going to hit are going to be richmond, virginia, and indianapolis, indiana, and then no offense, anybody, but to me and iowa doesn't really count that's not a, that's not a city where that's, that's not a, a megatropolis or anything like that.

Speaker 3: 8:08

I had to do a certification training in Des Moines and they have the best coffee shop in Des Moines. It's called Scenic Root. I have no affiliation with them. They're not sponsors of this, but I'm just letting you know. Go there Because they have the best latte. It was called the Honey Bee. There was honey and cinnamon and for some reason it stuck in my mind forever and that training was like five years ago.

Speaker 2: 8:35

So I'm just saying my wife is a coffee connoisseur. In this new house we had built that we're in now, she's got a coffee bar and she's got, like this, one big machine that can do I don't drink coffee, so I don't know all the it can froth your milk and it can do this, that and the other thing, and she's got your regular Keurig type thing and she's got she's got three machines on this bar and she's got the cabinets above have all sorts of different types of coffee. I love the smell of coffee, but I'm not a bitter flavor person and by the time you add sugars and cream and everything, and I may as well be drinking a milkshake to do that. So yeah, I'm looking for I will write that down as a treat to my wife. As we're driving across countries, we're going straight through Des Moines and if we're there at a decent hour, we're not making a hotel reservations, we're just going to drive until, okay, it's time to sleep and then just get the next hotel we see and then get up. Our goal is to do 17 hours of driving each day between the three of us. Like I said, I'm betting that I'm going to be doing 15 of those 17. Probably not that much, but I'll be doing the majority of those things.

Speaker 2: 9:49

But I should have put my description in a reverse order, started with my vacation and gone into the education thing because we got another comment from our listener on the fan mail. Listener on the fan mail If you are listening to the app on your phone, just go to the notes section. There's a fan mail button and it'll open up your text app and pre-populate a number or the number to it. Now it will have like a six digit number in there as well that you cannot erase or we won't get it, as that's how the podcast company knows to send it to our podcast versus another.

Speaker 2: 10:23

But I originally said this person was in Tyler, texas. That's what their number comes up as. But they said Dallas, texas. And I'm just going to be real quick here. We can answer their question. They're looking for suggestions of how to transition out of education. They say I'm in the HR field, in the education field. I can't get a corporation to look at me twice. I've been at it for four years and the differences in the fields are too much for me to look like a good candidate.

Speaker 3: 10:55

So are they jumping from education into HR? Are they in HR in education? They say they're in HR, hr and education field.

Speaker 2: 11:06

So they're already in HR, they're just in the field and I guess they're trying to move to a more corporate environment. And yeah, I don't know what the holdup is with that. And my question back to you unfortunately these text messages are only incoming. I can't reply. I just get an email and something on our podcast hosting company that says, hey, you've got a message, but there is another number at the bottom of the show notes with our actual text number. You can text and I can reply to that.

Speaker 2: 11:36

But so my question would be are you in like a something that's super specialized area? The more specialized you are, sometimes it's harder to be, and I don't know Dallas that well. I imagine it's definitely a top 25 market, but I don't know how it ranks for HR world, the area I live in, if you are an L&D person, I don't know anybody that's strictly dedicated to L&D and then, on top of that, works in a team of other L&D professionals. Where I am, there's not a lot of huge businesses, but I'm sure Dallas has bigger businesses that have people that specialize. So, transitioning out of education, I worked at the for-profit university for a long time and I didn't have any problem, but I was more of a generalist in nature and that's why I've always been.

Speaker 2: 12:30

I haven't had any specialty areas. So I would just I know you've heard this a billion times I'd say network, get in the SHRM chapter, out there, whatever that is, and network and find people. And you know, just keep on trying. You know, I, I, that that's the best I can, I, I, I know it sucks what I just said. Keep trying, do your best, just keep trying.

Speaker 3: 12:55

You got this, you're doing great.

Speaker 2: 12:57

It's frustrating. I know I've been in a situation where I'm looking for a job and I want to get out of and things just don't fall into place. But I also sometimes think there's a little awkward karma to it that when you're not trying that hard, sometimes these things will come to you. And when you're putting all this effort and dedication and energy into it and then it's not showing up. So yeah, just network. If anybody out there does is hiring for HR professionals in the dallas, texas area, let us know we can try and hook y'all up. So hey, we'll do that and you can send a, a fan mail to us and we'll read it and respond. Like I said, this is only one way. At least this way, the only response we can do is on the on the podcast yeah, and I will say I lived.

Speaker 3: 13:43

So I lived, lived in Dallas for a hot second. I lived there for 15 months and I will say there's a lot of big companies in Dallas. So if you're looking for a corporate, structured role, that's awesome. There's also a lot of places right now that are remote. So I think open up your search to remote roles across the country. That would also be helpful.

Speaker 3: 14:07

But I know we shit all over SHRM sometimes. But I will say I was one of the board members of North Texas SHRM and I can say wholeheartedly that that whole group of individuals is not jaded. They are very you know, I don't know they're very helpful and they're very you know, I don't know, they, they, they they're very helpful and they're very, you know, really into HR and they have great seminars and everything like that. And I mean I'm being a little biased cause I was on the board, but they're just a great group of people. So I don't know where you are in Dallas because Dallas is so big.

Speaker 3: 14:42

If you're in the northern part of Dallas, definitely try North Texas SHRM. But I will say Dallas also has their own SHRM chapter. So network, network, network it's such a cliche, but sometimes it's not about what you know, it's about who you know. And then I will also say you know, if you're trying to make that switch into corporate, if you can demonstrate that you have some kind of business acumen, and if you can demonstrate that you understand ROI, like you know things that I think people who work in a corporate setting assume that you wouldn't know because you work in an academic setting. If you can, like, demonstrate that you do have that business knowledge, that will also be helpful. So I would try to write some of those transferable skills into your resume in some way so that you can at least get your foot in the door in a conversation, because that's also half the battle. So, yeah, just make sure that you're really connecting those dots.

Speaker 2: 15:49

Yeah, now here's a question. I don't live in a big city period, but I don't work in that huge of a city. Pergine Beach is kind of large, but not Dallas Texas large or anything like that Dallas Texas large or anything like that. Like, we have the Hampton Roads area, shrm, and I have not been to a SHRM meeting since 2011. I know that very specifically, but I haven't been to a meeting since then and I haven't had the desire to. When you're in an organization at large, I mean, how many members does a Dallas area have? Or maybe does a city like New York or Los Angeles or Houston, do they have like three or four chapters to cover that one city? What do you know about that? I was just curious.

Speaker 3: 16:41

So I will say we have. So, like in my example before we had there was a Dallas chapter which was like central Dallas, and then about 45 minutes to an hour away was the North Texas chapter, which was like basically all the other things that aren't Dallas because like I think people like geographically it's just so big. But even here, like where I'm in, I'm in cincinnati, so we have cincy sherm, and then there's also a sherm chapter about like an hour or so south in like the kentucky area. I don't know, but there are like, depending on how big the city is, like geographically, there'll be multiple chapters, okay so you know I work in Virginia Beach.

Speaker 2: 17:25

I'm on the Hampton Road SHRM email list. I'm also on the peninsula, which is on the other side of the water. It's not that far away. Actually, last week I went to a seminar in Hampton. I was really blown away how short it took me to get there driving. But in Eastern North Carolina there is nothing for a sherm. I think I would have to check. I think I might have to go as far as Greenville to find a North Carolina sherm for me. So that's how remote we are. But before we get going too far, hey, I hope we answered your question out there in Dallas. Please keep the messages coming. If you want a response, send it to the actual phone number at the bottom. That's a Google voice phone number. I haven't checked in a long time, but I should get a notification if I get something. But maybe I should do that after this episode, Anyways, anyhow, well, while we're speaking, let's go ahead.

Speaker 3: 18:16

You got me very curious now because, oh, so sorry, I was going to say you got me very curious now because, oh, so sorry, I was going to say you got me very curious now because I was like now I need to understand. Are there multiple chapters in a very high? What is it like a large population area? And I was looking because I was like New York City in my mind has the largest population. Yeah, and it doesn't look like C. What is C-N-Y Sherm Like? What does that like? What is that? What does cny stand for? I don't know, but there's a new york city sherm, so there's an nyc sherm and then there's something else. So it looks like there are multiple chapters for large population, like people yeah central new york.

Speaker 3: 18:58

Okay, so there's a central new york and then there's a.

Speaker 2: 19:00

New York, central New York, I get it Like the Albany area, yeah, yeah, okay, okay. Now I know. Well, let's give a shout out to all these little chapters, because the last episode we talked about the SHRM 2024 conference in Chicago and how that was a little bit of a mess, bit of a mess. Well, I did not realize this until later. That SHRM sort of, if you will, stepped in it at the SHRM conference when everybody's best friend, jct, announced that they were going to take the E out of DEI and Yay that makes no sense.

Speaker 2: 19:38

It makes no sense. Well, I'll so post from Sherm on LinkedIn. I think the date I didn't write it was. I think the date was July 10th. On this, I'll read this whole thing. It's a couple of paragraphs, but it should go pretty quick. We're going to lead with inclusion because we need a world where inclusion is front and center, and that means inclusion for all, not some people. Everyone has a right to feel like they belong in the workplace and that they are included. Jct Today, shrm announced an important shift in our approach to inclusion and diversity.

Speaker 2: 20:12

Effective immediately, shrm will be adopting the acronym I&D instead of I-E&D instead of IE&D. This strategic decision underscores the commitment to leading with inclusion as the catalyst for holistic change in the workplace and society. Jct shared his SHRM 2024 main stage address. This new focus highlights SHRM's role as the foremost expert and advocate in workplace inclusion and diversity. By emphasizing inclusion first, we aim to address the current shortcomings of DEI programs, which have led to a societal backlash and increasing polarization. While we shift to IMD, our commitment for advancing equity remains steadfast. Equity will be integrated under a broader inclusion framework, including to be a priority in our strategy and leadership decisions.

Speaker 2: 21:04

Sherm is excited yada yada, yada, yada. So that has got a lot of people ticked off. I don't go on LinkedIn that much anymore because it's now pretty much turned into a Facebook, but I did go on to LinkedIn and people were on fire about this and I, okay, I said we're going to shit on Shurm. I would love if they could take any of these letters out of the DEI and I would love if we lived in a world where we didn't have to discuss this crap, but we do, we're in that world and it's reality. This crap, but we do. We're in that world and it's reality. But half of me says you know, it does make sense. If inclusion is focus, maybe the other piece of the puzzle will fall into place. I don't know. But you can include people and still not have equity. Just because you're invited to the party doesn't mean, you know, you're going to get to participate in all the fun and games. And I've heard multiple, multiple people say they should be adding letters versus subtracting letters. The number one thing is belonging, and if they want to focus on something, they should focus on maybe more on belonging as well. So you know, first, you're not going to make everybody happy with something like this, and I think part of this and I'm not trying to defend SHRM in any way, shape or form is just the optics of it. I don't think they thought this through very well.

Speaker 2: 22:36

And then one of the things and I was looking for the quote I heard elsewhere or read elsewhere, I don't remember. And then one of the things and I was looking for the quote I heard elsewhere or read elsewhere, I don't remember that Johnny C Taylor said that the equity isn't, it's not working. And I'm like, well, if it's not working, why give up and take it out? I mean, yes, I understand if you, diversity can bring that to the table, but or inclusion can bring that to the table, or inclusion can bring that to the table. So I think maybe you phase the E. If that was your goal, you sort of phase the E out, but you don't give up, especially if people aren't getting it.

Speaker 2: 23:11

And one of the things I found a quote from Johnny C Taylor. Taylor said the decision was due to confusion around the meaning of the word equity, which can lead to divisiveness. And I think equities only be confusing to those vehement people who want to be backwards in the world and not, you know, because we're having a DEI discussion means that you're racist against old white guys or something like that. I think those are the people that are going to worry, that are going to have confusion around equity. And don't get me wrong, there have been some really bad ideas about some of these DEI trainings because have sort of that weren't done very well. We'll just say, but yeah, I think it's a little tone deaf.

Speaker 2: 24:08

This article that I am taking from is on Forbes, by Jenna McGregor. She wrote Johnny Taylor was surprised by the criticism sharing that, as of mid-Thursday, about 44% of the 900 plus online comments at that time were positive, while 56% were negative. And he says I think it speaks to the division and the very divisive nature and polarizing nature of any conversation around diversity, inclusion, equity, accessibility and belonging. And there, perfect example diversity, inclusion, equity, accessibility and belonging. And their perfect example, jct added accessibility and belonging to that list. Now, I'm not for adding these gigantic acronyms and things like that, but I think it was tone deaf, I think the timing was bad, I don't think it was managed well, but if you're saying somewhere else in there people are confused and it's not working, that's not where you give up on.

Speaker 3: 25:07

So yeah, I think you're right. And also it's the optics. So it's almost like are you trying to send a message? Are you just sweeping this under the rug because you don't want to deal with it, because it's not working? So we're just going to put this under the rug because you don't want to deal with it, because it's not working, so we're just going to like, we're just going to put it under the umbrella of general inclusion, and we'll just it'll take care of itself.

Speaker 3: 25:29

It's fine. And I will say like I think there was a lot of like I always like to think of, like the stats of the people who have these like reactions, and maybe the people who had such a negative reaction and it's so high is, if you look, I feel like, if you look at people who work in HR, I don't know. I feel like I don't know how to say this without sounding like a total idiot, but what I'm thinking is the people who are upset about equity being taken out are individuals who have probably felt inequity within their life, and the people who tossed out, or the people who are like, oh, we don't need it, like whatever, are probably individuals who never really felt that kind of inequity at their core. And I feel like that's probably a huge reason why there is so much backlash, because it's so, it's so, it's so useless to it. I don't understand why they did it Like. Why is it like rebranding? Are you just trying to be trendy? Like? Why?

Speaker 2: 26:34

No, oh well, first, I think what you said is wow, that that's really spot on. Because first, to get 900 comments you know SHRM's got hundreds of thousands of followers on LinkedIn and they said they represent I forget how many hundreds of thousands of people are members of SHRM and things like that To have 900 comments and of those, 56% being negative, okay, but it's just like any other comment on social media and, like I said, linkedin is just another social media page. Now I very rarely go to it, but this got me one. Get on and get my bucket of popcorn and watch the dumpster fire happen. But people are much more apt to fire off that angry email if they're not. And if you have had a problem where you do not feel like you've been treated equitably, you're going to be more likely to do that and it can be for any sort of reason. But in all the comments let's see here I'm trying to find as of Thursday, taylor said the organization was not seeing defections, of people canceling their membership. But Taylor's explanation of equity was confusing and divisive, is unlikely to quiet those concerns.

Speaker 2: 27:50

Of some HR professionals, a few hundred have started a petition in opposition who seem quite clear that what they think. Equity means Diversity acknowledges difference. Equity ensures fairness and inclusion promotes an environment where diverse individuals can thrive, wrote one commenter. All three are essential and ultimately symbiotic and each deserves more, not less, attention and focus. But I can't disagree with any of that either. But I went to that petition, that online petition, and as of right now, as we're seeing it, they have 669 signatures, and that's been two weeks since they've launched this thing. But while I've got the petition in front of me, here's some of the things they want. It's called HR Voices Opposing SHRM. They discuss inaccessible costs. Shrm they discuss inaccessible costs. Shrm fees are prohibitively expensive, creating financial barriers for many HR professionals, especially those working smaller organizations, nonprofits or who are self-funding Outdated practices SHRM's approaches and recommendations fail to keep pace with the latest and best practices in HR, like we were talking about last episode Lack of focus on DEI we don't need to go into that.

Speaker 2: 29:05

Corporate bias SHRM has bias towards corporate interests over employee well-being. This is evident in its policy decisions and advocacy efforts, which often favor employers at the expense of workers. The next bullet point anti-union stance. Shrm has a history of anti-union positions and actions, contradicting the fundamental rights of workers to organize and advocate their better working conditions and I have my own opinions on that. But they're saying let your certification lapse, don't renew, embrace diverse qualifications, don't financially support them, don't go on and et cetera.

Speaker 2: 29:45

But in two weeks only 669 people signed the petition. You know, it looks like it's not that big of a thing. You know, that day it like blew up. It was, I guess you'd say, trending on LinkedIn and someone else said it was trending on X and I don't do X, so I don't know. But yeah, I thought it was interesting. But Ryan Golden from HR Drive they did an article on it and Jim Link, shrm's CHRO, said SHRM arrived at this conclusion after speaking with employees nationwide. The organization said in an email that it took the form of a rapid response survey of 400 working Americans, conducted in August of 2023. That's an awfully small sample size 400.

Speaker 3: 30:36

That's such a small sample.

Speaker 2: 30:38

I mean-.

Speaker 3: 30:39

That's not even like 1%.

Speaker 2: 30:44

Yeah, it's going to be like Election Day, where all the when, all the networks were saying one thing was going to happen and it didn't because they were going off a small sample sizes.

Speaker 3: 30:53

So I don't think person down the street and they said take out equity. So I think everyone thinks the same way. So let's just get rid of it.

Speaker 2: 31:00

Yeah, exactly so I think I think it was their. Their decision was just not well thought out. It's like in hr if you're going to terminate someone, the first thing you do is you look at their file. Is it their birthday? Is it something else? Is it? Or did they just get back from maternity leave, or are they about to go on fmla because they're getting cancer treatment or something like that? You look at those things and you say, hold up, let's put the brakes on this one. Waiting another day, unless it's something really egregious. Another day a week, something like that isn't going to to change the world on that. So do your homework.

Speaker 3: 31:38

I will say it's kind of.

Speaker 3: 31:40

It's kind of like coincidentally poetic, because they had that thing with jason sudeikis who was like nah, I'm not gonna do this, I'm gonna go watch caitlin clark play, like completely supporting the wmba, which historically there's always been the argument of a huge wage gap in professional sports between men and women. So you have like Jason Sudeikis back out at the last minute because he's going to go watch a WNBA game and then Sherm is like oh, by the way, equity, we're just going to shove it under here and I think that, compounded with it, it makes it laughable, like, and I would like to think on some level I doubt this, I think it's a whole coincidence, but I would like to think on some level, like in my wildest dreams, that Jason Sudeikis kind of found out about this and in some way cared enough to be like I have, I have standards and I, out of here, I'm going to go publicly support a WNBA team. That would be awesome if it was that thought out and calculated, do I think it is no, but the coincidence is funny.

Speaker 2: 32:54

Yeah, no, I very much agree with that. So it's just really, it's really sad, a lot of other organizations. My wife being in payroll, there are multiple payroll organizations that she could be members of and there's really I don't know, besides the certification. Hrci doesn't do what SHRM does. They don't have the resources and we spoke earlier that resources aren't what they used to be. They don't have the resources and tools for HR professionals, but there's, there's not another organization for HR professionals to turn to, and maybe some competition would be good.

Speaker 3: 33:39

Yeah, and I was also thinking like we're not, what we do isn't life or death, like it's not like the American Medical Association, where you have to belong and you have to get your continuing credits or else you can't practice medicine or something like that. I mean, this is just a professional organization where you have the certification which, in the grand scheme of things, may or may not mean anything and all this stuff, but honestly, we kind of touched on it last time. My question is are organizations like this becoming obsolete? Because we kind of live in a world right now that's very connected, whether it be through social media, like okay. So I think immediately evil HR lady, I don't know if you follow that on Facebook, yeah, or you know there's different.

Speaker 3: 34:28

You know, reddit is another one. Like there's different areas where people can literally bounce ideas off of each other or share things like even with in person networking, just knowing who your network is, just to say like, hey, I'm working on X, y and Z. Have you done this in the past? Do you have any insight? Is there a necessity for a formal association within HR where you have to pay hundreds of dollars every year just to say that you belong for pretty mediocre resources? And I will say, like I mean I said before I'm I was a board member for North Texas SHRM and I loved North Texas SHRM, not because of the SHRM attachment, but because I got more value out of being with people, meeting people, getting connected and getting ideas off of them. I don't, I really don't. You could take the SHRM label off, we could go non-label and I would still. I would be getting like really good resources of just people connected every day.

Speaker 2: 35:37

No, it is true Working with people when, when I was part of part of the local SHRM, I wasn't on the board or anything but a person I studied for my PHR with. I think two of them were on the board local board and one of them I'm still LinkedIn friends with I don't know what happened to the other but I liked going for the socializing. But I liked going for the socializing and I had people that I could bounce ideas off of and turn to for questions or what do you think about this? And it built you learn. Just like any other organization. There's people who are really heart and soul into it in the profession and then there's people who oh, okay, changing gears.

Speaker 2: 36:34

I mentioned earlier, I went to a labor and employment seminar. It was an all-day thing and first shot I got to reconnect with a former coworker, lisa, who was on the podcast when we did our happy hour back in COVID times online and got to see her for the first time in years and that was a lot of fun. But also I like this is my first in-person event since COVID that I've gone to for human resources related things and I loved it. I loved seeing people. I loved a lot of hearing other people asking their questions and seeing what's going on. However, there is a point of diminishing returns on that.

Speaker 2: 37:08

I was in one breakout session and the two ladies in front of me talked the whole time and then they would interrupt their own talking, raise their hand and ask questions that they have not been listening to the whole freaking time. And then they tried to make it their little session and talk about their personal. I wish the host of that breakout session. I put it on my little happy face card. At the end I said the moderators need to shut this down when people are trying to hijack the session and shut down the sideline chats. I know you're having an important conversation over there. Why don't you take it outside so everybody else can listen? But not only did I have them in front of me, sort of behind me and to my left was another couple of people who just could not shut up and I was like and I kept saying, excuse me, kind of not quite that loud, but and they didn't care, they just were pretty damn happy being rude as all get out.

Speaker 2: 38:05

And oh, it's twice, only twice between the three main sessions and the four breakout sessions, but twice in the breakout sessions people would ask, oh, can I get the slides for the PowerPoint for this? Like, oh my gosh, I hate that. I hate when people ask for the PowerPoint. You know, I did take a picture with my phone of one slide that I found pretty important. I was jotting down notes and I go, wow, that's that. That was like the one thing I really wanted to take away. So I took a picture of it and like you don't need to ask for a copy of the slides. You, you're, you're paying a fair amount of money to to go to this thing and and be there and ask your questions and stuff. But anyways, yeah, people, people are rude and uh I will say that is.

Speaker 3: 38:54

That's a generational difference that I am finding more when I go to more and more conferences is the can I have a copy of the slides? Question because, like usually, like you just take a picture of the slides question because, like usually, like you just take a picture of the slides you find important and like you'll notice people doing that, and then you'll also notice the people who like interrupt and be like I need the slides and I'm like just shut up, been listening the whole time.

Speaker 2: 39:15

it's. It's interesting. I don't know I don't know if I've ever told the story on air why I stopped going to my local SHRM. I walked out of the last local SHRM meeting I went to. It was at a very nice place, actually, one of the people I stayed for the PHR, they were in the hospitality industry and it was in one of their buildings Beautiful, nice, great food, all that other good stuff that you expect to get out of a SHRM meeting.

Speaker 2: 39:44

But I was at like an eight-top table and I was the only HR practitioner and there was a benefits person and a couple staffing agencies and this person and I just I didn't. You know, you start off with social, then you sit down and eat and then, because you can't get your credit if you're eating at the same time as getting a lecture or getting education time, so it can't be done during eating, apparently, and I just got up after eating. I was like I've got to go because I was going to lose it on all these people. Just, you know, I was like fresh meat. I was like no, I'm done, and that was my. That was my last local SHRM meeting.

Speaker 3: 40:23

Oh, that's unfortunate 2011. I will always say I hate big SHRM, I love little SHRM, like local SHRM chapters. They're not as cost prohibitive. You meet actual people and I think you get more out of it than belonging to the, the mega chapter like, or the you know organization.

Speaker 2: 40:45

you don't get get involved locally, that's all I'm saying I, I I have considered going back to something like I said. I'm on their mailing list, still always have been, and I see their events and some of them look really cool, so maybe, maybe one day I'll do it, but their times and locations are also not terribly convenient for me. But they mix up. But I am surprised. I don't remember, like I said, it was 2011,. The last time I attended one, so it's been a very long time. But the cost for members can be up to $50 for some of these things per month, and then the cost for non-members is like $75 or more and I'm like, oh, that's pretty, that's steeper than I remember. So, anyways, yeah, I really liked. But also in 2011, what was happening? The economy sucked. I mean, people talk about the bad economy now. The economy really, really sucked in 2011, 2011 and I think there were less practitioners just going there.

Speaker 2: 41:47

I mean a lot of hr. When the economy turns down, the first two groups get cut are marketing and hr. There's, there's, you know, I will put money that that would be an actual fact on on that, because their seam is overhead, they just take, they spend money, and things like that. There were a lot of I know a lot of people who lost their jobs then. So maybe there were just less practitioners there then and more sales agencies trying to lessen the feel of their, uh, economic decline by pouncing all over me. But anyways, that's a whole another story.

Speaker 3: 42:25

So yeah, oh, and you go deeper, not even hr, but if you're an lnd and the economy goes down, that's, that's a scary place to be as well oh yeah, well, knock on wood.

Speaker 2: 42:37

I I feel you know don't want to get political. I feel the the economy is doing pretty well right now. I don't hopefully see anything that's going to change that. I'm really banking a lot on that that the economy is going to continue to go well. But the one thing where I live is the Hampton Roads area. Virginia is the world's largest military complex. We have Army, navy, air Force, marines, we have DOD.

Speaker 2: 43:04

I'm a government contractor, I work for a contracting firm.

Speaker 2: 43:07

I'm not a contractor myself, but I work for a contracting firm and that drives the economy and when things are tough, that in this area at least stabilizes it to a certain degree, because that's not defense spending is really not going to go away that much.

Speaker 2: 43:22

I mean it will get lessened, but it's not going to go away that much. I mean it will get lessened, but it's not going to go away like the commercial world. But on the flip side, when things are going gangbusters and I'm thinking the tech boom of the late 90s it also limits your upward. It smooths out both the highs and the lows being in an economy like this, but it also the salaries around here. I'm not going to complain about my own because I think I get paid very well, but overall the salaries, no matter what your industry, are lesser than if you go to an equivalent type city in Hampton Roads, because all these military retirees I don't think it's intentional, but they take less money because they've got their pensions to fall back on and things like that. So that drives us without military pensions competing against them and make less money. So anyways, it's an interesting local economy here that a lot of companies don't get to face.

Speaker 3: 44:18

So anyhow, I will say not to sound glib, but I work in an industry where when things are good, it's good, and when things in the economy tanks, we still do good. So I think word to the wise, especially for those who are just getting out of school and looking for their first job try to find something that you know stands the test of time, like, I think, health care. You're always going to need health care. Looking for their first job, try to find something that you know stands the test of time, like, I think, health care you're always gonna need health care and I also think, like you know, your example is great, like you know, educate and and, yeah, like I, I work.

Speaker 3: 44:55

I work in the legal services space, so when shit hits the fan, yeah, the lawyers get busy. The lawyers get busy. So anyway, like yeah, like you always feel like you need to find something that's a little like can withstand the ebbs and flows of the economy that best practice will be.

Speaker 2: 45:27

We can shit on sherm, but you, but your local chapters, can offer you something a little bit more than maybe the national SHRM can offer you.

Speaker 3: 45:35

Yeah, they offer you a sense of community.

Speaker 2: 45:37

Community. Ah yes, I think that'll give us all we need for today. So, as always, I want to thank the Underscore Orchestra for the use of their theme song Devil the Devil, and Andrew Culpa, who is our voice artist doing the intro. As always, I'm Warren.

Speaker 3: 45:56

I'm Cece.

Speaker 2: 45:57

And we're helping you survive. Hr1. What the Fuck Moment at a Time.