Embracing the Madness: Navigating Talent Management and Career Development

Ever wondered what your cat’s vertigo could teach you about the chaotic world of HR? Join us on the Jaded HR Podcast as Cee Cee kicks things off with a hilarious story about her feline friend’s unexpected health crisis. We then venture into more sobering territory, sharing our recent work struggles—Stacey’s hair-pulling ordeal with a botched survey logic affecting thousands and Warren’s annual review prep nightmare. It's a rollercoaster of emotions, perfectly capturing the unpredictable and often laugh-out-loud ridiculousness of HR life.

How do you identify and nurture high potential employees without creating a toxic workplace? This episode digs deep into the delicate art of talent management, balancing transparency and discretion. We discuss personal experiences from both large and small organizations, revealing the pitfalls of labeling employees as high potentials and the importance of offering targeted development opportunities. With our anecdotes, we emphasize that fostering a positive work environment requires more than just good intentions; it demands a nuanced and thoughtful approach.

Finally, we tackle the ins and outs of talent reviews and succession planning, stressing the importance of clear communication and candid feedback. From performance check-ins to continuous learning, we explore practical strategies for employee growth and career advancement. We wrap up by urging you to take charge of your own professional journey—because waiting for someone else to steer your career is a recipe for stagnation. Don’t forget to text us your questions and comments for on-air responses. Join us as we navigate the HR labyrinth, one WTF moment at a time.

Chapters

• 0:19 Jaded HR Podcast
• 8:00 Navigating High Potential Programs With Transparency
• 17:39 Navigating Talent Review and Performance Check-Ins
• 24:46 Talent Development Strategies and Challenges
• 35:00 Owning Your Career Development
• 49:47 Engage With Jaded HR Podcast

Transcript

Andrew Quolpa: 0:19

Thank you, employers. If you've ever heard, my manager is unfair to me. I need you to reset my HR portal password, or can I write up my employee for crying too much? Welcome to our little safe zone.

Warren: 0:52

Welcome to Jaded HR, a podcast by two HR professionals who want to help you get through the workday by saying everything you're thinking. Let's say it out loud I'm Warren. I'm Cee Cee, all right, so a lot of fun stuff going on in our world.

Cee Cee: 1:11

So how are you doing? What's going on for you? I'm good, I am just living. My cat so I know everyone's chomping at my cat update Our diabetic is now. He started to do this like little walk thing, walking like a drunk, so now he has oh my gosh, I forget the name of it, but basically it's like an inner ear thing. So he basically had vertigo for 24 7. So we have to like take him up the stairs, walk him down the stairs, we have to lift up, do anything, but he's still in high, he's just just a little drunk that's funny.

Warren: 1:44

For a cat that's usually like the, the embodiment of agility, and you know everything like that.

Cee Cee: 1:49

Now be, you know, uncoordinated uh like oh, if he was like in the wild he would have been picked off, like he's so pathetic right now have you ever gotten an animal, that's particularly a dog, drunk on purpose before? No.

Warren: 2:04

A dog will drink beer. Like a fraternity brother, a dog will drink beer. Don't ask me how I know this and don't call PETA on me or anything like that. It's just I drink and I know things. You could say it's under some animal, oh, my gosh?

Cee Cee: 2:25

No, we have. We do not get our cat drunk, he just acts like it but catnip is legal right, exactly, catnip is legal in all 50 states oh, no, he's he's hanging in there. They wanted us to originally do like an MRI on him, but I don't know if you've ever researched how much an MRI is that's about.

Warren: 2:49

On a cat.

Cee Cee: 2:51

No, we're good. So, we're treating the. What is that? We're treating the cheaper option in hopes that's what it is, so we're treating it as a really bad inner ear infection.

Cee Cee: 3:00

But, he's on the meds, he's good. Yeah, infection, but he's on the map, he's good. But, yeah, work-wise. I don't know Like I'm in survey and then today that quickly turned into civil yeah, this is user error. So this is my error, but at the same time, I'm accountable to a certain extent Important thing that anyone should. I didn't know how important this was until today. But if you're looking for an employment engagement platform to do all of your surveys, make sure you can test based on demographic, so that you can test the logic of all of your questions, because I have a situation now where the logic doesn't. I can't see where it broke down and yeah, so now I had to open a ticket. Well, 2000 people are wondering why they can't submit their survey. So, life is Now.

Warren: 3:54

you're giving me some fears.

Cee Cee: 3:59

Yeah, you have all these branching questions, but like you can't at least with this platform you can't test it based on the branching questions. So you just kind of look through and like, well, all the questions are here, this looks good, no typos. Off, it goes. And then it realized after the fact that the branching is broken and there's no way for you to know that. So Professionally.

Warren: 4:21

I'm about to head into one of my favorite times of year annual review time and I was about to head into one of my favorite times of year annual review time and I was supposed to launch them today. But I had just a day from heck. I didn't even get to take lunch and I left late and everything. I was like I just got to the point where, okay, this is a good quitting spot, I'm going home and I'll tackle it tomorrow. But, yeah, it'll be easy to get it done tomorrow than today. But I didn't meet a goal. But life will go on. I think I mentioned before, review process is 12 weeks, actually more like 14 weeks. We're supposed to launch at the beginning of the fourth quarter, which is two weeks away, and I usually launch it earlier just to get it done and get it out of the way. You know, check the box. So I'm not truly behind schedule, but I did say I'd have it done today, but I did not do that. But I didn't anticipate today being as hectic as it was. But yeah, talking about cats and dogs, besides getting them drunk and stuff, I had a cat. We found him when he was like his whole body could fit in the palm of my hand. We found him in our backyard and he was all by himself and I called animal control and said, hey, I got this tiny cat here, can you come pick him up, and things like that. Oh, we can't come till Monday. Once the cat spends the night with you and you've got two kids, it's your cat. You and you've got two kids, it's your cat. And I think that was I always think that was the thing. So we ended up Monday morning we took him to the vet and they gave us the bottle of milk and we we raised him.

Warren: 5:49

But he was never an indoor cat and he thought he was, I don't know, lion King or something like that, and he'd pick fights with everything he brought it. He would bring in any animal in the world that he could catch. He brought in a small goose once. He brought in a nutria and if you don't know what a nutria is, it's an ugly beaver rat looking thing with orange teeth. He would just bring in all the snakes. He was great at bringing in snakes. He would bring in all this stuff all the time and drive my wife nuts, rabbits. I never knew rabbits made noise until one day the cat brought one in and it's screaming. I never knew a rabbit made noise. So anyways, he would pick a fight with anything. And one day he got attacked. He lost the fight and he actually had lacerated his eye very, very badly.

Warren: 6:41

And we took him to the emergency vet as it was after hours. And we get him there and they said they patched him up with some super glue type stuff medical grade super glue, for lack of better term and they say, oh, you're going to go to this, there's a cat or animal eye specialist somewhere that you're going to want to go to and do all this. And I said, well, how much are we talking? And he's like putting in like thousands of dollars. I'm like no. And so the next day I took him to our vet in the regular hours and he said, yeah, he agrees with super glue, Just hold it and see how it works out. And it held up for him. But he decided he was big enough of a cat to take on a pack of coyotes and he did not win that fight. So yeah, that was the end of our cat. His name was gary, just like sponge. My son named him from the snail and spongebob gary.

Cee Cee: 7:31

So I love it that was.

Warren: 7:34

That was. That was our, our cat story. So anyway, I've got well. First, before we get too far, I want to thank our patreon supporters for their support. We got Hallie, the original Jaded HR rock star, bill and Michael. So if you want to be like them, you can support us on Patreon. You can also support us through our sponsor, buzzsprout. The links are in the show notes. Also in our show notes is send us a text link. You can send a text.

Warren: 8:00

Now, this is one-way communication, but I really would love to hear from you. If you have any ideas, thoughts, suggestions, grapes, whatever, let us know and give us reviews. I went on earlier today and we haven't had a review in a very, very long time. I did not check internationally. Sorry, our international listeners, but please leave us a review. That's how we get found, how we grow.

Warren: 8:24

But one thing I did do while I was playing around the stats I live in my county. The entire county has less than 50,000 people. I was blown away how many downloads I have from this county and Dare County, the neighboring county. I don't know that many HR people down here. There's not that many businesses that have HR people down here. But hey, send me a message. I'd love to hook up, get you a beer somewhere, so let us know, I will buy a beer. So love to meet y'all in the area. So anyways, that's taking care of some business.

Warren: 9:03

But we a a cool topic. I was, I was searching through old episodes, I was looking for something that we referenced and I never found it and I'll keep searching as I wanted to bring up. But I was clicking through episodes and we made some not even. It wasn't even a topic, it was just a couple remarks about high potential employees and things like that, and that got me to thinking about the whole high potential or high post-election process and taking it completely jaded, because people get so butthurt about why someone was chosen over them and what's going on and things like that. I just went down a whole rabbit hole of high potential issues and this is probably way up your alley more than mine.

Warren: 9:55

I've never worked anywhere that's had a structured I guess you'd say talent development program. I've worked mainly in smaller companies that it's there is talent development program. You know for mainly in smaller companies that it's there is talent development and progression, but it's not as formalized as you know some companies out there. So yeah, well, do you have any experiences with people getting overly upset? That hey, you know why did CeCe get listed as a hypo? Why not me? Da-da-da-da-da and thanks.

Cee Cee: 10:26

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's so tricky.

Cee Cee: 10:31

I have worked at companies where we've had very strict or very like different tier development programs, like different tier development programs, and I think you know you have your leadership development, you have your man like leadership development, management development, and then you have like what we would call like the hypos, and at that area we were doing more like early career and development programs around that, like identifying them, because like there's a little bit of a yeah, like that's kind of how we've always defined hypos in the past. We're more like these are high potential individuals. A lot of them are a little greener and when you put them in those kinds of programs I love people are always going to get butt hurt a little bit. So there's been situation like I've never really heard anyone though Like I don't think anyone's really approached me and been like, oh, like, why? Like usually it's like shit talking and it's really like, well, why? Oh, my god, like why did so-and-so get selected, like what? And I'm like, okay, well, I don't know selected if you stopped like shit talking all the time. That's one thing, yes, but I don't okay, so I gotta, I'm like all over the place tonight.

Cee Cee: 11:45

So there's a couple things that I kind of think of, and the one thing is, like the transparency of selection. And then there's also the transparency of like do you release this list of high potential? So in the past we've never really like released a list of high potentials and very rarely do the people themselves know that they're high potentials, but they're probably like put in a bit of like a cohort and if you have a bit of a program, what was just putting them like? Oh, once a month there's like a learning event, so it might be something very laser focused at that group of individuals. But no one ever knows like, oh, you're selected because you're high potential.

Cee Cee: 12:23

And like, once you start talking about that and people start to know like I've been named, like it kind of a sets up, sometimes an unrealistic expectation with the person, because now they're like I'm hypotensive day, now I'm going to get and that's not always the case or it gets around, and then people get butt hurt. So for the most, like those high potential or hypo programs, kind of keep that hypo piece a little quiet. We'll still give the high potential individual development. We'll still give them stretch assignments. We'll do all the things. We'll say things like hey, we really like, we see, you know potential in you, a little more development, a little more development into you, but we never like list anyone as high potential and no one knows who is considered high potential.

Warren: 13:12

Well, I'm thinking a friend of mine worked at a telecom company and this was years ago and they were labeled a hypo candidate and they would have like a week-long once a quarter a week-long training thing somewhere in the country and they would send everybody in this telecom company to wherever it was and it would be different places all the time. One time it was in Virginia Beach and I got to meet up with them while they were in Virginia Beach and I'm going to talk out both ends of my mouth because in some words I like secrecy towards this because I don't know a lot. It's going to come positive out of. You know, hey, you know, look at this, here's our list. You're not on it and things like that. But but I also I think transparency has has a place too.

Warren: 14:07

Well, this particular company. I went to the hotel that where they were holding this training. I was starting to talk to them. Now I'm not in telecom so I don't know a lot of the stuff they're talking about. But he was telling me about the leadership training in the managing, the people training that he was going through and a strategic thought process training that he would be exposed to. But on top of that like he was wearing a sweet Under Armour polo that said the company logo high potential, class of whatever. And and you know he's going to go back to work, this is pre pandemic, everybody's working and he's gonna be wearing that around. They gave him this sweet canvas messenger bag type thing. That was company logo, high potential, class, whatever it is. They were class of, let's say, 2024 or whatever and things like this. And I'm like that's all the stuff you're doing is like shoving it in people's faces who weren't invited. But he said you know, people were in last quarter's class. A lot of them aren't there, some aren't there anymore. And he says he doesn't know if they quit, they got removed from the list or what it was, and he didn't end up being in telecom too much longer after that. But anyways, people would come and go off the list on a regular basis.

Warren: 15:30

I was like yeah, it's not unusual for high potential. You know someone, you know they can't handle it. They shit the bed, whatever it is they. You know they get taken off and hey, well, you know who's next on our list and add them to it. But I was just like the blatancy in your face, you know it was a little too much, I was thinking. But I really dug the training they were doing and telling how to manage people, how to manage situations, how to you know strategic thinking and things like that. I'm like, oh, that it sounded like a really awesome program they had. But yeah, it's crazy.

Warren: 16:10

But all all this led me to now I'm going to get jaded again. What? How does this work in today's modern era when you have the anti-work crowd, the quite quitting crowd and all this and they're the ones who are going to get butthurt because they didn't get selected while they're doing it, in making it known they're doing the bare minimum and stuff like that? You can't have it both ways, people. You can either be a quiet quitter or you can be a high potential. And that leads me to my other random thought is the bar lower in 2024 for identifying these people because you have so many quiet quitters?

Warren: 16:49

And by by contrast, warren looks awesome. He's a mediocre employee overall, but compared to everybody else, he looks awesome. He's your number one guy. No, I do 50% more than minimum. I don't know whatever it is. But how is that in the talent development world? And then add to that the labor shortage and throw that in there I mean talent development is probably just done more as many cartwheels as any other area of HR because of all this post-pandemic stuff. And it just got me thinking how tough has it got to be right now versus just four or five year pre-pandemic times?

Cee Cee: 17:34

Yeah, I don't know. That's a good question and I don't know. All right, okay. So when we talk about high potential, like how I'm defining it in my mind is like you have a high potential pool of individuals. The next tier up, I would say, are your succession roles. So your succession individuals are like higher level and for the sake of this conversation, that's who I do my organ talent review around, like we do manager level or not manager, but we do what is it? We do three levels down, so we do C-suite, their direct report and then their direct reports, direct reports, and that's kind of what we do with that. Anything outside of that we would identify as high potential and those are individuals who aren't necessarily ready for like a succession path, but we have their, our eye on them and those are traditionally like the entry-level jobs where there might be higher turnover.

Cee Cee: 18:27

I got done with our or we're actually in the middle of our talent review right now and I would say, like a lot of the individuals are on that six in that succession pool, in that particular talent pool company for years. You know, like a lot of them have been with the company for like I would say like three plus year or two plus years, but like really three plus years and it's that are a little more like you get a little more turnover in those areas.

Cee Cee: 18:55

But I feel like there's a correlation between individuals who are high performers, Cause I feel like if you're high potential you are, but also you're a little more engaged in the organization You're, you know, you show a desire to grow and even though we have like have the people that work your wage.

Warren: 19:15

I like that term I work your wage.

Cee Cee: 19:18

I don't think the work your wage crowd would do enough to stand out to be in a high potential pool so, and I'm trying to think of it graphically.

Warren: 19:28

so you have your little nine box, nine, square Nine box.

Warren: 19:32

You have potential and you have performance. And you know, if you're at that first square low potential, low performance you're gone. And then you know, then the opposite end, you have high potential, high performance, those are your superstars and things like that. But the other seven boxes are somewhere in between. And, hey, you know, this person's got a ton of potential but they just need a little more push, a little more experience. Even Maybe they're only a year in or something like that. They're just green and you know their performance will improve once they get in the swing of things.

Warren: 20:05

I think, or maybe somebody has great performance but they're just not motivated and they're not that person that's going to. And I, I think companies, if they did things like and I'm not going jaded, I thought that, I thought it was going to be a really jaded episode, but I keep going away from it. But if, if companies did a better job of explaining how this succession planning and performance and the nine box works for everybody, hey, you know and tell you hey, I see a lot of potentials, you're just not, you're not meeting it because you don't have the motivation and have those direct conversations with them to maybe kick them in the butt a little to get them. Oh, they see something in me. They like me a little bit more. I don't know, but we've said it before. Are you feeding someone's ego? Hey, I've. Hey, they say I've got high potential. I might not be performing well, but I've got high potential and their ego has been stroked a little bit. Now they're not going to be high potential any longer because they're too full of themselves.

Warren: 21:05

And then you've got the people in that center square. They're doing mushy middle. They're good, they're that key player, they're solid, they're. They're good, solid people, but they're they're. You know, they're, they're. You know I forget what percentage of your people are supposed to be in that. You know middle square, but I can't recall all that fun textbook stuff from the things like that. But, yeah, you know, they want a percentage, you know.

Warren: 21:30

Know, there's some method. I forget even the name that puts them. You should have so many of this, so many of that, and and majority should be there in the middle. But it's, it's. But. Talk to people about where they are and where you see them and how to get them to move from one box to the next, hopefully on the upward scale, upper right scale, but. But yeah, it's just I think that's what companies could do and just have a candid conversation with them. Hey, you do well, we just need you to show there's people perform really well, but they're just not motivated to do. They're a one trick pony, you know they can do their job really well, but you take them outside that box, they're not gonna do it.

Cee Cee: 22:12

It's the Michael Scott syndromeott syndrome great salesman, horrible manager. See, I will say I'm okay. Not only are we doing oregon talent review right now, but we're also getting ready for our check-ins coming up, our quarterly performance check-ins. And you know, I, being, I, being in my role, I, you know I have a certain view of the process because I run the process, so I know the conversations that are happening, I know everything. The only group I do not know the conversations for and rightfully so is the HR group, because these are my peers and I don't need to know what they are or where they are.

Cee Cee: 22:50

But, that being said, I just I'm walking into my Q3 check-in, q3 check-in and I just want to be blunt and be like, okay, I know how this works, tell me where I am. Tell me where I am, because because I just want to know, like for me, motivationally, if you were, if I was just to say like and just knowing my role, oh, we totally see you here, we see you in this spot. Tell me where I am. Am I high potential? Am I key talent? What am I Tell me? So yeah, just to let everybody know, it kills me too. Not knowing kills me.

Warren: 23:27

Well, see, you're in sort of the weird spot because you know how the system works, you know how it should be, but you don't know where you are in the box, in the grid. And yeah, that would be nerve-wracking and for an HR person I think it would be an easier conversation than your average employee Well, I shouldn't say your average. You know if you're not involved and you don't know the whole nine box thing. It's not even that complicated, it's two lines potential, performance and where you fit in between there, it really is that simple. But how it works, and you know if you want to do it correctly and have the X, many, you know, not forced distribution, but your ideal situation is this main percentage of all these categories and whatnot. It's interesting. But yeah, maybe a recruiter or something doesn't know or care about this, or a benefits person doesn't know or care. But if you know about it, hey, Warren, you've got great potential. You've got good potential, You've got good performance. Let's knock it up. And I think that could be a motivator if you're trained properly how to receive that notification. Which brings me to another thought about emotional intelligence. Some people just can't. They are not as good as they think they are just can't. They're not as good as they think they are, you know, and they're always going to compare themselves to somebody else and look at it through some rose colored glasses that, oh, you know, I'm better than this person because, fill in the blank, that may or may not have some truth to it, and maybe they are better in this piece, but in 17 other pieces they're not better, and things like that. And they just don't look at that part. Oh, yeah, yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't turn in his administrative stuff on time, Doesn't? Do you know the, the little things, right? Oh, yeah, I have better metrics in my work or whatever the measuring devices, and that has to come into play in this whole discussion too. So this is how all HR wraps together. Your compensation and bonuses can be all tied to all this fun stuff as well. So this is sort of like the real heart, if you will, of what HR is.

Warren: 25:46

And another thing I was thinking about and I actually wrote this part of my notes here talent development is expensive. It is, I mean, from the early potential in providing. Hey, you need a little extra training here. We want you to. Hey, I think you should probably, if you're doing it more subtly hey, the manager, I'd like you to take this class, you know, or enroll in the seminar or whatever it is, and things like that.

Warren: 26:14

But depending on your situation. Benefits they can be expensive, because some companies pay a hell of a lot towards it. But benefits are expensive. Recruiting, depending on your turnover and amount of hire, that's expensive. But employee development and talent development, that's really expensive too, especially the higher up the ladder you're going. Like you mentioned, you had your high potential pool, then your succession planning and what do you need to do to say, okay, well, if Susie's going to retire in three years and we need someone that is going to be able to fill those shoes, well, oh, they might need to take whatever. It's expensive. And I like the thought, Once again, I'm not being jaded anymore. I thought it was going to be crazy to be jaded, but I like the thought of if I went to a company and they told me they have this organized, structured talent development thing, I'd be like whoa, that just says something. Right then.

Cee Cee: 27:12

And there if they do.

Warren: 27:14

But I'm a small 170-person company. We don't have a structured talent pool, but there's a lot of 170 employees me, the president, the COO, we can name everybody and in the company we know it's less formalized but it is discussed as well. So it's not super structured and all this other stuff. But there are plans in place and things like that. But if I were to go to a company that had that, that would be like ooh yeah. But that makes sense for you.

Cee Cee: 27:49

Ooh yeah, but that makes sense for you. If you're only like 170 some employees, you probably don't need some masterful, well thought out. You don't need something complex. You just need those kind of conversations that you're most likely having. We don't make it formal by any means, but they just need to happen, which is fine, because I think having something really formalized wouldn't make sense for a smaller company like that.

Cee Cee: 28:18

As long as the conversations are taking place, I don't care, you could have them hanging upside down. Who cares? And also like the other thing is this is something I come across every year because we have so many individuals who are named as successors. And again we keep that quiet because we don't want to set the expectation of like, hey, once so-and-so wins the lottery, it's yours. We don't want to say that. We want to identify what's their development plan.

Cee Cee: 28:46

And every year there's pushback being like well, this person's developed, they're ready. Now. I'm like so what are you going to do with that? And it's always like it doesn't have to be an expensive thing, like it doesn't always have to be training, it doesn't always have to be some kind of externally purchased program, it doesn't have to be an offsite Like this is literally just getting people ready for their next. It doesn't have to be an off site Like this is literally just getting people ready for their next.

Cee Cee: 29:16

And sometimes it's just as simple as getting people on a really robust stretch assignment that would give them exposure to a different part of the business or something like that. And that's like zero money. And that's also clearing stuff off of somebody else's plate so that you know they can focus on something else because it has like a ripple effect. So there's always like this conversation I have every year of like, oh well, there's nothing to do, they're already developed. Like, no, like learning is forever. And there's always something that you're going to be working on and it doesn't have to be something extremely formal. Just figure it out. Are you just going to get, like, give them a new responsibility, give them something like you know, it doesn't have to be really complicated.

Warren: 29:57

And if that's the case, where you think they're developed, well, maybe let's think about the future of that position. You know, today the incumbent is doing X, y and Z, but maybe we can throw a sprinkle a little bit of this and that into the position as it grows, because I think, you know, with new people comes new ideas and new ways of doing things and maybe they're going to be more efficient. So now you have the ability to do that. You know I was, I was talking with our CIO just earlier today. Actually, you know, are so much of our corporate departments have grown a lot over the last all the time I've been here. Some have doubled in size, but HR is still the same.

Warren: 30:37

You know, it's me, my assistant and a recruiter, and I don't see it getting any larger until we get a lot more headcount because we've been able to gain some efficiency, so many efficiencies in what we do and I'm able to. You know, actually right now I was telling you offline, my assistant is challenging me in ways to keep me growing because she's just, she's really really good and she's she's very eager and I don't want to lose that. But I she keeps me on my toes and I need to come up with more for her to do. She's already done 18 things today and she's bored and I don't want that to happen, and so that's my challenge. So, anyways, but yeah, it's just.

Warren: 31:18

You know, even if you're in a smaller company, talent development it's a thing and it may be just some even casual conversations about, hey, you know, how's this person doing? I think they're doing, what could they do next? Where are they going next? What's next in the road for them, and it's a casual conversation. We don't even write down notes. But, like I said, you just talk about it and know what's going on and okay, yeah, that sounds good. Or if, like, yeah, you know they might be good, if or, but, or whatever it is. And then that's when you start actually, well, we can fix that, we can, you know, we can figure that out. We can give them that type of assignment, we can give them some new goals, we can push them a little harder and things like that, to see what we can, we can do there.

Cee Cee: 32:01

So yeah, and I walked like once. The other hard part that we come across is like what so talking about the high potential piece again, like we, we were naming them every year, like yeah, these are them. And I'm like what so talking about the high potential piece, again like we, we were naming them every year, like, yeah, these are them. And I'm like what are we doing with them? And I'm like, no, what are we doing with them? We're not doing anything with them.

Cee Cee: 32:20

So just figuring out what to do with the high potential employees to keep them engaged has been a little tricky. Like is it going to be a cohort program? Is it just going to be like individual development plans? Like what do we want to do? And right now, to be transparent, we're working on that. Like we're working through what that could look like in 2025. Because historically, we've not really done anything. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say we're probably not the only ones who are in this boat of like hey, we have some really strong people who look like they can really grow at the company. Let's just cross our fingers that they stay.

Warren: 32:59

Yeah, that's not a strategy. I don't think no it's not. That was not an answer to a strategy question on the SHRM exam. Cross your fingers.

Cee Cee: 33:11

I will say, though you were mentioning like the swag that people got from, like their high potential programs, and that we had or in my past lives I've done two cohort programs and they've always been for leadership development, but those were programs that you were nominated for and then you had to go through an application process, an interview process.

Cee Cee: 33:36

It was competitive and like people knew about it sells in like they could let their manager know I'm interested in doing this and in that case, like there's a competitive nature to it, you're selected and we had swag for that and you, you know, those people were walking around with their like management development program turbis bottles, like to every meeting, because they were so proud of, you know, that accomplishment and we really wanted them to kind of brag about that because they worked for it, they like applied for it, they interviewed, they like were selected, and also we want, we wanted more people to cycle through that program. So we're like you know what, advertise it, like you know, be proud of your accomplishment. So there's a there's a time and a place for that kind of swag and I think, um, that's like completely appropriate. But yeah, just to like name someone a hypo and give them a mug.

Warren: 34:36

That's kind of weird yeah, now I I'd ever thought of it that way. I'll have to see if I can connect on facebook with my, my friend who did the with the telecom. And did they have to apply, or it was it just bestowed upon them that you but you have the, the blessings of whomever, to become the next big thing in the company, so that's interesting. The magic wand.

Cee Cee: 35:01

The magic wand of promotion.

Warren: 35:04

Sometimes it feels like it works that way.

Cee Cee: 35:07

I know and that's the funny thing, and I will say this I can't tell you how many times I've heard people mutter promoted, or people move up in the company. I, you know, people get very bitter with that more than I think being named or labeled something, and it's always this weird mix of like people who get bitter because they sit in their chair, they do their work, they do as they're told and they do it well, but they don't do anything more than that. And then they just expect I've been here for X amount of years, I deserve to be promoted, I deserve this and I'm like it doesn't work that way. Like you don't. You're doing what you're asked to do and you're doing it well. That's great.

Cee Cee: 35:56

But if you're not showing a desire to move to the next step and if you're not vocalizing that with your manager and your manager isn't having those conversations with you about your next, you can't be bitter. That's not happening for you. Like, you have to have accountability in your own development. So whether you are sold by the daddy corporate as being a high potential or not, it really doesn't matter. You have accountability in this and you have power in it. So that's what I always try to tell people is that you own your development, so you have to take ownership of that.

Warren: 36:34

Absolutely. So you have to take ownership of that Absolutely. And you know the companies may do great things, have great cool programs, but you've got to put the work in at the front too, just to be recognized where you're going to get. And on the flip side, you know, the development can also tell you who's time to exit the company sometimes and or when things get lean. You know, knock on wood, the economy's going really well, yada, yada, yada.

Warren: 37:02

But if times get lean again and decisions have to be made, they're they're looking at that same nine square a lot of times because that one in one person who only scores one on potential, one on performance, they're the easy ones. That's a no-brainer. It's the people who are two-in-one are the really tough decisions. Like I said, the two-in-twos, they're your solid, that's the core of your workforce and things like that. So that's where things get really difficult. But the one-in-ones, oh yeah, low potential, low performance. And you know it's interesting and put yourself out there and ask questions of your managers and management how am I doing? What's going on? What do I need to do next? What should I learn? You know, just put yourself out there and you're not being a brown loser, You're taking responsibility for your own career and if you get an assignment that I don't because you ask good for you. It's nothing on me, it's good for you.

Cee Cee: 38:03

I will say this. This is a little anecdote. So when I was a little earlier in my career, the first job I got was in recruiting, because that's how it works.

Cee Cee: 38:13

It's an easy place to start when everyone starts almost so I was in there and I was like I need to get on the org development talent management team, like this is where I want to go. And I was very hungry and I said I made time with the VP of that department. I made time with people in that department. I asked them questions, I like networked internally, basically. And then when there was like a time for in that department, I asked them questions. I like networked internally, basically, yeah. And and then when there was like a time for me to like or a big project came along, I raised my hand immediately. I'm like Do you need help? Because you know, I talked with my manager as well and I said you know, this could be a good developmental thing for me. Like, if I have like room to do a stretch assignment, I'd love to do it with them. And they're like awesome. I ended up like creating their new, higher orientation for the like for the what is it? The the building being one of the primary facilitators, and it was awesome.

Cee Cee: 39:05

And then time came where, like, someone on that team left and that position was open and I, it was strategic. When a position opens, which is inevitable because attrition happens I want them to think of me. So the position opened. I interviewed for it.

Cee Cee: 39:21

I pissed a bunch of people off because during like an all-hands meeting an HR all-hands meeting where all like 100 and some HR people were there, a certain individual like raised her hand and basically insinuated she wanted that role too and she didn't get it. But she went through the interview process and everything. She insinuated in front of everybody that certain people get roles over other people because they're favorites, and so she made herself look like a fool, essentially first of all. And so she made herself look like a fool essentially first of all. It was embarrassing for me because everyone in the room knew that she was talking about me.

Cee Cee: 40:02

But at the same time I'm like well, what did you do? And this is why I get very passionate about it, because I'm like you didn't do anything with this team. Like I busted my ass, I built relationships, I did extra work to like expand my skills and to prove that I knew what I was doing, I created new, higher orientation. Like, what did you do? And to like make that kind of comment in front of everyone and play a victim and blame a rigged system when it wasn't rigged is annoying to me. That is my biggest pet peeve Like.

Warren: 40:38

Oh yeah, I probably told the story on the show before I worked somewhere. I was, I was the manager and I reported to a VP and as we grew, she decided she wanted to bring in a director. I applied for the position. I did not get it and the way she did it was perfect. She brought me in and she talked to me. She goes. We're not going to interview. We know, we know you, we know what you're going to say and you know it's good. But she goes here. She goes, but I am selecting someone else. And she went like ABC.

Warren: 41:13

Here's why, and because it was so factual and she'd planned this out so well, I couldn't say, I couldn't rebut it and I actually now yes, I was butthurt for a little while about it. I didn't get a promotion, I didn't get something I wanted, I didn't get the raise, I didn't get whatever. Everything came with it. But the way she did it was just, it was personal to me. It's not like a thank you, thank you, blanket email and she said look, you have this reputation. I believe it or not. I had this reputation of being gruff and mean and not very touchy-feely, and I also did some other. If I wasn't being gruff or mean, I was just not being responsive.

Warren: 41:58

So and and these are the exact things she was telling me and I was like yes, yes, yes and yes, and and I I couldn't disagree with anything she said. And you know, like I said, I, my feelings were hurt for a day or two and I I was like, okay, well, you know, and I ended up liking the person who came in ahead of me and it all worked out, but it was just interesting. But I really appreciated that and I think she knew that I would appreciate that and that's how she worked. So it's just about knowing your people and if you, if you have a legitimate reason, you know, I had the tenure, I had the experience, I had whatever things you want. I also had some baggage that I brought along, and maybe being jaded didn't help my career right then and there, but I wouldn't be where I am now if it weren't for that. So it was everything's good, it all worked out.

Cee Cee: 42:57

So you know, I think you like you, I think you just nailed it like, especially when we're talking about internal, like we're talking about high potentials, we're talking about individuals who'd move up in the company, especially if there's a role that they apply for and they don't get it, for whatever reason. Uh, maybe not all the time, but except for extenuating circumstances, these individuals are owed some kind of feedback. Or else you're going to get what happened to me with, like a Lugani tune basically telling the room that I don't deserve my job. I only got it cause I'm a suck up, like no like and I know the reason I hate.

Cee Cee: 43:36

follow her on LinkedIn too, so yeah.

Warren: 43:38

You hate follow her on LinkedIn. Uh-huh, oh, okay.

Cee Cee: 43:42

We all do it. We all do it.

Warren: 43:45

I, you know, I used to be like addicted to LinkedIn and now I can't stand it because it's becoming Facebook and it's just annoying to me. I went on today real quick and I wanted to get one person's contact information that I knew I could find on there and I just clicked around some other things and, yeah, I spent for the first time any time. And the thing is I used to get so much ammo for the show from LinkedIn. You know, reading David Micklesley, reading John Hyman I haven't kept up with John Hyman's worst employers list. I'm gonna have to give myself an assignment to read that real quick and things like that. I just haven't. Because LinkedIn is just turned into Facebook and I can't stand the political crap. I can't stand the the other non-professional crap. If I could, I would probably, I'd probably remove my, my LinkedIn account. I mean, I know I can, but I'm an administrator of our company's LinkedIn, so I have to have a LinkedIn profile and dah, dah, dah, dah. So it's not. I'm just not using it anymore.

Cee Cee: 44:52

I used to love it. But there's always those try-hards on there Like they're, like the people who use it like I don't know they. They don't have a life outside of their job and all they do is like post about how great their job is, how great their company is and how amazing their team is and how they love their job and everything is rosy. And every day it's a new post, or it's like a selfie, or like I'm getting ready for work, like with my coffee, and it's just, we get it, we get it. You're a leader of a team and your team somewhat likes you, from what we can gather.

Cee Cee: 45:32

Like you don't have to post like something about them every hour. It makes me crazy.

Warren: 45:38

Before we wrap things up, I did write one thing on my notes going back to high potentials and stuff like that we were talking about, you know, is the work your wage. I like that term. I hadn't heard that one, honestly, before. Is that going to be? Is that a Zoomer issue? And is that, are they going to mature out of that? Or are is that? You know?

Warren: 46:00

You hear to say you know originally, oh, millennials, they don't have any work ethic, they don't know how to do crap, and now they're running the show. Now, you know, people my age are in the tail ends of their career and things like that. There's more millennials out there than there are Xers and things like that. But I don't know, I can't put my finger on it. Did the millennials mature and develop into better employees or were they always that good and just caught a lot of shit? And are we giving too much shit for the Zoomers?

Warren: 46:32

But things have changed over the years with millennials and we wouldn't have a lot that we have right now if it weren't for the changes they brought to the workforce. But Zoomers, are they going to be the sort of end of talent development overall, because they just are the work, your wage generation, do your bare minimum and, uh, skate on by it, by our reputation. Like I said, my, my new assistant is the exact opposite. That she's she's making me work hard. But so there are exceptions to every rule. But you know it only takes so many before you say you know what, screw this, it's not, this program isn't working, it's not worth the squeeze, isn't worth the juice or whatever they like to say with those type, I don't know.

Cee Cee: 47:17

No, I don't think it'll ever go away. I think work your wage, I think it's more of a work-life balance thing. So I think that's just my perspective on it. Like, don't you know, don't work extra hours at night Cause, basically, like you're only getting paid for nine to five. So just spend time with your friends, spend time with your family, you know. So that I respect that piece of it, I respect a hundred percent.

Warren: 47:49

Like I think that work life is something that millennials have really brought to the forefront, and entering the workforce but I think I hate say I hate using the whole generation thing.

Cee Cee: 48:00

I think it's where you are in your life, that's what it is, and I think, like Gen Z right now in their life is that they're starting their summer just a few years in, but they're also dating. They're also, you know, trying to like establish their lives or they're having fun with their friends or this and that. So yeah, like I totally get it. They're they're not going to be, they're driven while they're at work on the clock, but then afterwards like they're a little more relaxed and and I think millennials were probably that way too for a while until I got mortgages until you got mortgages and you're like I could really use that promotion yeah, yeah, I have a

Warren: 48:38

401k I need to invest in come on yeah, no, I think there's something, definitely something, to be said for that. Well, anyhow, I really wanted this to be a completely jaded crazy episode, but I couldn't even get there myself today. So well, I'll have to come up with a new topic that'll get us there. But for all you listeners that have stuck us out this far, we've got some exciting things coming on, starting with the next episode I'm going to put I think I'll send a little voice message to our Patreon supporters so they'll get to know first. And next, in two weeks, there's going to be a surprise of what we have going on and, yeah, and we'll be doing that for at least a few weeks. So it'll be, we'll have some fun and with it now, I'll probably record a little something extra tonight for the, for the patreon supporters, so they, they will get a heads up and maybe they'll have a suggestion or two for us as well.

Cee Cee: 49:30

So should we call our patreon, uh people, our hypos?

Warren: 49:34

oh, oh, yeah, yeah, don't do it Other people. If you get heard about it, you can fix it by making a contribution.

Cee Cee: 49:43

Yeah, seriously.

Warren: 49:45

You have no one to blame but yourself. Just hit us up, send us a text, and we really want to get some text, get some more communication. It's been a little while I haven't been asking for a lot, those things a lot, but I want to get some communication with you all. So send us a text. It is one way, but we'll respond on the air. But there's also in the show notes later on the text number for the Jaded HR Google voice number and I will respond if you send to that as well.

Cee Cee: 50:10

So anyways, Text us any questions, like we love. We love when we get questions and we can answer them on air and we might be right and we might be wrong, you never know.

Warren: 50:21

Yeah, we'll definitely have fun. We'll have fun, we'll have fun. Yay, our best practice of the day is just going to be oh, I had one. I should have written it down. I should keep a pin at my desk as I'm doing this stuff.

Cee Cee: 50:36

Own your own development. Take control of your own development and don't wait for someone to lovingly tap you on the shoulder and lead you into a new role.

Warren: 50:48

Amen. With that, I want to thank our voiceover artist, andrew Kolpa, for the intro, and then the music is done by the Underscore Orchestra. The song is Double the Devil. So, as always, I'm Warren.

Cee Cee: 51:01

I'm Cee Cee.

Warren: 51:02

And we're here helping you survive. Hr one, what the fuck. Moment at a time. Thank you.