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U.S. Phenomenon with Mario Magaña
Welcome to "U.S. Phenomenon" with Mario Magaña, a riveting podcast that dives deep into the unexplained and the extraordinary. Join Mario, the host as he explores the most intriguing paranormal events, alien encounters, and mysterious sightings across the United States. With his unique blend of real-life experience and passion for the unexplained, Mario brings you thrilling stories and expert insights in every episode. Whether it's alien abductions, ghostly apparitions, or cryptozoological creatures, Mario's engaging storytelling will captivate and keep you on the edge of your seat. Tune in to "U.S. Phenomenon" and embark on a journey into the unknown that will have you questioning everything you thought you knew.
U.S. Phenomenon with Mario Magaña
Delving into the Mystery of Mel's Hole: Lore, Legends, and Unearthly Tales
Embark with us as we unravel the enigmatic allure of Mel's Hole, an abyss of mystery nestled in Eastern Washington. Our captivating episode features Phil and Charlotte, seasoned researchers who bring a trove of knowledge from their explorations and their now-digital NW Legend Museum. As we recount the strange tales and local legends that have woven themselves around this peculiar phenomenon, you'll be drawn into the blend of skepticism and intrigue that follows the story of a hole so deep that even science stands puzzled.
What truly lies beneath the earth's surface? We probe deeper into the abyss as we discuss the intersection of tangible evidence and otherworldly stories – from the dog that came back to life to the Native American lore and the sensitive insights of Red Elk. Expect revelations about the mysterious subterranean entities, the Long Walkers, and ponder with us the potential military connections to this site near Manastash Ridge. Our narrative is enriched with personal anecdotes and the broader cultural impact of such enduring legends on the community, keeping you engrossed from beginning to end.
As we close this chapter of our journey, the conversation takes an unexpected turn towards the resurgence of interest in Mel's Hole, catalyzed by popular culture and social media's fascination with the unknown. We dive into the significance of listener engagement, community history, and how local culture shapes our ongoing quest for discovery. Join us for a meeting of minds that celebrates the mysteries of our world, and maybe, just maybe, you'll leave with more questions than answers – a true sign of an adventure well embarked.
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Welcome to US Phenomenon, where possibilities are endless. Put down those same old headlines. It's time to expand your mind and question what if? From paranormal activity to UFOs, bigfoot sightings and unsolved mysteries, this is US Phenomenon?
Speaker 2:It all began on a drive home from Swing Shift. The radio, my only companion companion, the voice of the legendary art bell, filled the room, well, filled the car, a beacon in the darkness, speaking worlds beyond our own stories, untold secrets kept just out of sight. That voice, those tales, ignited a spark within me, a drive to seek the truth, explore the phenomenon that lied just beyond the edge of reason. From whispers of paranormal to echoes of the unknown, my quest began. So, fellow night travelers, let's continue this journey, delve into the enigmas of the night and uncover the mysteries that await us. This is US Phenomenon. The search for the answers never ends. The adventure is just beginning. It is my pleasure to talk about something that we haven't talked about here, but it is my pleasure to welcome to us phenomenon let me put. My is charlotte and ph. Now Phil and Charlotte have been doing.
Speaker 2:I want to say some stuff that has you guys have been working together for quite some time. We've had you on the radio show way back to talk about the incident on Maury Island, which is always a fun tale to talk about. Now, the reason why I wanted to bring you guys on was we had a listener send us an email asking us to cover Mel's Hole. Now, for those who don't know anything about Mel's Hole, this story goes back to February of 1997 on Art Bell's show, back in the day where Mel Waters called in, or he actually faxed Art Bell the story about what he had discovered in this hole. Let's, before we have you guys, come on, let's play a little bit of this audio from Mel's hole here. Where did it go? Oh no, where did it go, mel's hole? There it is. Here we go. Here's the audio.
Speaker 3:I guess this is eastern Washington, mel. Are you there? Yes, I am. First of all, mel, thank you for answering. What are you doing up at this time of the morning? Well, after I sent the fax, I'm living in town here now because we had a couple of our buildings out there cave in after the big snows that we had out here last month. Oh, yes, and so thereby goes some of the construction debris into the hole. All right, when did you discover this hole? Well, the hole has always been there. We've been out there for a couple of years now and you know the hole has been there since we've been there. It's been there since the previous owner was there, and previous owner there was quite elderly and I I'd say he was there for a good 30, 40 years before we moved in.
Speaker 2:Wow, it's interesting to me. Um, you guys, when we talk about this hole here, uh, or mel talks about the hole and he, he goes to art bell to to share this news about this. I don't want to know if it's mysterious phenomenon of a hole. Now, when did you guys start doing your guys's research on this hole?
Speaker 4:Well, I guess you know, like yourself, we had heard, you know the story and I guess, because it was of our close proximity to it, at some point we, I guess, decided to actually do an expedition and go out there and just kind of research around.
Speaker 2:But it was, yeah, another local person by the name of Red Elk who showed us kind of what he believed was the, uh, the gate or the, the trailhead to what he believed was mel hole's area and see when, when we talk about charlotte and phil, who you guys run the website, uh nw legend museumcom, uh, so when people want to go somewhere to talk, if it's about Mel's Hole or you guys have a ton of stuff out there, but so tonight we'll spend most of the time talking about Mel's Hole, but you guys used to have a location that's no longer there, right, you guys don't have the museum because of the pandemic. Is that what happened?
Speaker 4:Well, we just kind of retired. I think it was about um 2013. We did have a physical location yeah um, for about 10 years, and then we kind of retired and we just still just have our website up yeah, now, perfect now you can't actually go to.
Speaker 2:You can go to mel Hole, but you can't actually go onto the property right now. I know there's so many legendary stories that talk about that. The military or the government is on the property. Now how is that? I haven't been out there? So what have you guys come across on your guys' travel there?
Speaker 4:Well, okay, you know again, we've been out there maybe about four times. You know around 2000,. You know through maybe 2002. And there's a lot of features that Mel mentions that we believe he actually did live in Ellensburg on the Nash Tash Ridge. There's no question about that. Mel was a real person, it wasn't just a story.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 4:And you know we can't necessarily prove any of the unusual paranormal qualities of the region or the whole, but for us there's no doubt that there's a person who did live, you know, in the area, because there's just too many things he's mentioned that actually you know we verified. I kind of recommend going out there for anyone who's interested. It's just a nice little town but we believe kind of it's possible the hole may be covered over.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 4:I don't think there's like an obvious huge military presence. That would just be, you know, red flagging and just drawing attention to themselves. But Manassas Ridge is a very kind of it's still kind of a high desert kind of woodsy ridge, you know next to Ellensburg Washington. So Ridge, you know next to Ellensburg Washington.
Speaker 3:So it's a scenic area. It's really nice.
Speaker 2:It's funny because looking at the map earlier I was looking for it just now as you guys were just chatting the map on Google Earth shows the hole on Google Earth still, and it looks like the threshold of like Thorpe right and kind of that Thorpe Ellensburg-ish area off of 90. So somewhere in that area Well, I mean, that's still Ellensburg.
Speaker 4:Well, again, we don't know who put that. Well, again, we don't know who put that. We just now recently noticed, yes, if you go on Google Maps and look for Mel's Hole, there actually is a placement and the one. There may be more than several and we can verify that or anything, but we noticed there is a Mel's Hole designation south of town, south of Ellensburg, I want to say kind of southeast of the ridge, which may or may not be part of the ridge. Again, we haven't been out there for years to necessarily verify that and again, we don't know who placed that marker?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:See, that's interesting because when you start looking at this, if if you're watching the stream here, uh, and I'm like designating trying to find mel's hole, um, as we do this, okay, so if you're watching the stream you can see it, but it's designated off of uh, I mean I'm gonna pull this map all the way out. But I mean, ellen, you look at this map and you're like, okay, there's 90, but yeah, that that area is definitely desert, right, and this, this area okay is that.
Speaker 4:it does that look like it? That looks like it's north of town. Now, what's interesting is, years ago we did connect with Jack Powell, who's with the Department of Natural Resources, and he led us to a gold mining pit just north of Ellensburg. Okay, it's not on Manashtash Ridge. That does go down 300 feet. It's just off of the road. We believe it is on private property. Now that's been known, but we do not believe that it's the same thing as Mel's Hole. That mining pit north of Ellensburg is kind of called Green Canyon Mining Shaft. We have information in it and an actual photo of it on our website, on our website. And again, I think people would like to think Mel was confused and you know he was simply referring to that mining pit as his hole. But you'll notice that hole does not have a three-foot high retaining wall around it. Mel claimed that the hole on his property had a three-foot high stone retaining wall and the stone went down about 15 feet. So again, this may be just an example of how there's a lot of.
Speaker 2:Different story.
Speaker 4:What do you call it?
Speaker 2:Encounters or like description.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, you want to be careful because there are mining shafts out there, I mean all over the northwest um, and you just want to be careful.
Speaker 2:This green canyon mining shaft does have a very small fence around it to keep cattle out, um, but again, we do not believe it's, you know, mel's hole when, when, when mel waters called art bell back in the day and he talked about uh, what then was how much uh fish line that he put down the alleged hole? I think it was.
Speaker 2:He said something about measuring 80 000 80 000 is now, and, and the other story, that that it just blows my mind to think that how is this not? How has this not been researched by geologists as may? Could this have been, you know, and you know, like an extinct volcano? Um, could this have, you know, could you know? These types of things run through my head when you think 80,000 feet, I was like, damn, that's a lot, that's a really large hole.
Speaker 2:Now, the other legendary story or myth that was talked about was that Mill had brought up on the show. Was that something that his neighbor's dog had, you know, passed away? He didn't want to bury it and he ended up putting the dog down the hole. Now, I think, if it was me, I would probably bury my you know, passed away. He didn't want to bury it and he ended up putting the dog down the hole. Now, I think if it was me, I would probably bury my you know, deceased dog. But the legendary story talks about how the dog came back to the owner alive after the dog had passed away. Now, now, have you heard it? I mean that that to me seems very strange, and some of the other encounters that I've read and heard of was that that area seems to have this aura or phenomenon, feel to it, where time seems to be almost like bending time, where it either slows it down or picks it back up. In your guys' research so far, what, what have you come across?
Speaker 4:um, you know, quite frankly, and again, we've been out there four times and, um, if you do a little bit of research on ellensburg, there are some interesting aspects to it and I encourage yourself and your listeners to take a vacation and go out there. And there are hiking trails on the Nash Tash Ridge. It's again a beautiful, varied area. The unique geological thing we do know and again this is getting with the Department of Natural Resources and you can look, you know, anywhere that region and area is known for kind of a rare agate. It's called Ellensburg Blue and from my understanding it's only found in two places around the world and you can be walking around and find it and if you do find one, pick it up, because my understanding is it's a little bit valuable. But that just kind of speaks to how geologically unique that area is.
Speaker 4:And what we've also researched and found out is Menashtash Ridge is on the edge of an ancient oceanic plate and that's why we thought, okay, you know, Mills Hole is simply a volcanic vent hole or just something again unique, or just something again unique, Central Washington is very interesting, yeah, and so we've got kind of a rare agate, We've got there's still a lot of gold mining. Going on out there and just north of Ellensburg, around kind of an area called Liberty, you do find what we you know I think geologists call steam vent holes. There is maybe some volcanic activity that is still kind of going on underneath in that area.
Speaker 4:It gives me the chills. Yeah, yeah, I mean you could go there for a variety of reasons, but again, this kind of all involves some of the research in the area. Now there's again, it's a beautiful hiking area. Mel related some artifacts that he found on his property and around the hole and some mysterious things that kind of you know again we can't verify or anything like that. He found an old German P-38 gun that he gave to his landlord. His landlord actually, I think, went on our bell and mentioned that it didn't make a sound when he fired it at a firing range. Mel also mentioned he found some mysterious dimes on his property that were minted before the Treasury formally released coins and just kind of some anomalies.
Speaker 2:He kept mentioning Our guest tonight, charlotte and Phil, who are hanging out with us, their website nwlegendsmuseumcom. We'll have a link posted within the podcast or the video stream as well. You know what's interesting to me when we talk about these anomalies the coin, these different pieces.
Speaker 2:Now, have you heard about the radio story that was brought that Mel could turn on a radio but he would hear programming that came to be of late 40s, vintage records being played over the air which wouldn't be typically found during this time of day unless he was maybe listening to some old records. But he said he had tried to turn the radio to a different frequency and came across a play-by-play of a 19-something ball game of older players and clearly, obviously this being I don't know, you know 97, roughly 2000,. Somewhere in this time frame we're talking that Mel Waters was able to play a radio and then hear audio that was from back in the day. So almost like a glimpse of time travel to, you know, to present day. I think I saw that somewhere, but I wasn't sure if you guys heard that story as well.
Speaker 3:I think we've heard all the stories.
Speaker 4:And again, we can't really comment on that, but that's kind of the theme that he mentions a lot. There's just some little unusual things that don't work normally around the area where he was living.
Speaker 3:There was a whole forum, a whole Mel's Hall forum for quite a while, where all we did was discuss where it is and all the phenomena it's, it's interesting.
Speaker 2:You know it's interesting, as you're talking about that, phil. This is probably the biggest thing, and I always say this about the pacific northwest. We have to be the largest capital for paranormal activity. From the incident at Moray Island, the UFO sightings at Mount Rainier, mel's hole, db Cooper, I mean, I mean the list goes on. I'm tired. Like we need to make the Pacific Northwest Seattle. This area needs to be the new Roswell, and I that is my mission is to say that this is where it's at, because there's so much going on here. They're like that's a huge phenomenon.
Speaker 2:Okay, there's a desert and you got some alien trinkets going on, and maybe there was a discovery of some aliens, but that didn't happen till after the maury island incident, you know. So I always have to remind people like maybe it was the people on vashon island and maury island. They're like well, we don't really want to. You know we don't want to cash in on this one, but hey, when you see guys in men in black suits, hey, you're like maybe we'll just be quiet, we'll just mind our own business over here, you know.
Speaker 2:So I have to say that this, this has to be one of my other favorite all-time stories and I really thank a listener who sent us an email asking us to talk about Mel's Hole and I was like I got to get to this one and for you guys to come back on to chat about this one. It's always fun to have you guys on to discover and to talk about these different things that you guys have, you know, been doing research on, and just the passion to have you know someone to come on the radio show to talk about mel's hole or if it's the db cooper case or, uh, you know the, the maury island incident. To get back to to the, the hole, the mystery hole. What's interesting and you guys is, um, and research on you know, these different forms and whatnot. Is there anything that stands out to you guys that hasn't been mentioned but not been brought to the light to maybe the average listener or person who may be doing research on?
Speaker 4:males, to mention to you and your listeners that you can actually go to Ellensburg and actually see and touch this anomaly. Mel one time related that there was a whale bone embedded in a tree on 4th Avenue and we actually inquired about that and was directed to it. And yes, indeed, you can even look it up online. There's newspapers that have done articles on it. There actually is a whale bone embedded in a tree on 4th Avenue.
Speaker 4:Now, that might not be too mysterious, given it might have been a fisherman who simply propped it up on a young tree and the tree grew up around the whale bone, but it's a huge. Somebody mentioned it's the jawbone of a whale and it actually looks like a large limb. And that, just so you know, is one aspect of Mel's story, again, that you can actually go and see and touch it and it's real. Again, unusual, perhaps explainable, but again, it's just kind of an unusual aspect of, and it's again something. Maybe we verified that. Yeah, he actually told something, a story about something that actually exists and you can go there and check it out yourself.
Speaker 2:It's funny for those who haven't listened to the story or the original audio. And it's funny because when I tell the intro of someone who listened to Art Bell, who wasn't on the radio back then, nor was I I was working at Boeing at the time, driving home from swing shift and this is definitely what's funny is the research shows that it happened February 21st 1997, which was my birthday. I wasn't working at Boeing just yet't. I hadn't come across this piece because I didn't start working at Boeing until 97 of September, so it was my birthday. I wish I would it. What an interesting tie to the whole story. But so for me, I guess it really touches, because I was like, oh, this happened on my birthday, 1997, when, when I listened to art and listened to mel waters, it to me it doesn't sound like he's pulling anyone's leg.
Speaker 2:I think he's just genuinely being honest about what his, his discovery was about this trump, this hole, this mysterious hole that he found in his backyard. And then he started doing you know his own research with you know putting you know fish line and then you know weight to it and you know pulling it back up and trying to figure out if there was water in this hole and you know the different stories of that have been. Also, I don't know if it was Mel Waters that actually you know they didn't the story that is out there. I don't know if they, if it was mel waters that actually you know they didn't the story that is out there. I don't know if it's true or not about them putting a, you know, putting livestock down there and then bringing it back up and um, and that's the unfortunate part, because a part of that, you know that that piece, if that is true, unfortunately the, the livestock passed away and I don't know, lack of oxygen or you know, whatever the case might be, I didn't the story that was told through whatever I had found through those channels, stated they, I didn't.
Speaker 2:I didn't actually finish watching the show because I was like I need to stop. So I just need to listen to others and let you guys, you know, share your stories and what you guys has reached or should come across. But he didn't to me sound like he was trying to pull anyone's, you know. You know, try to pull anyone's leg or pull a fast one.
Speaker 3:Well, there's no, you know, people can't even. There's nothing to sell or buy or anything, you know. Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's good money for him.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean, yeah, for him, he was just explaining it and then for the discovery of you know AB, to actually have to find him because everyone had been. When he comes on to come on the show, there were all these fake faxes. And because that's how he, you know, he said, hey, I faxed Art Bell, blah, blah, blah. But Because that's how he, you know, he said hey, I faxed Art Bell, blah, blah, blah. But he finally got a hold. Art finally got a hold of the gentleman. And then the story becomes the legend. Because now here we are, you know 2024, still talking about this whole, the discoveries. Could this have been? I know this is, I mean, it's not Yakima, I mean it's Ellensburg more. But is it part of a tribal? You know, was this part of a tribe, of some sort of a community that may not be there anymore? Have you guys had any research on that piece there anymore? Have you guys had any research on that piece?
Speaker 4:Again, we believe it or not when we first got contacted by Red Oak, interestingly, we were informed about him through one of our colleagues, peter Davenport, if you're familiar.
Speaker 2:The National UFO Reporting Center.
Speaker 4:I guess everybody, through one of our colleagues, Peter Davenport if you're familiar, yeah, from the National UFO Reporting Center, yeah, and I guess everybody is familiar with Art Bell's radio show and I guess Red Elk had contacted Davenport and he referred Red Elk to us and of course we connected. We actually went out there. There is no, my understanding, no Native American tribe specifically around there, but Mel Waters was working with Native Americans, particularly on one other aspect that your listeners you and your listeners name may not be aware as much. If you listen to a lot of the audio archives of Mel Waters, you'll notice he really talks a lot about this Native American plant that he's cultivating.
Speaker 4:Mel Waters a lot of people don't realize was he had throat cancer and you know, I believe he he knew his health wasn't the best and for him it was really important that he help his, his Native American friends and the development of this medicinal plant. Now, interestingly, this plant it's called Lomaceum dissectum and interestingly it was used during the 1918 influenza successfully and it's an herb that you can get right now in most herb stores. It's called Lomaceum and it's a very strong herbal medicine, if you will. And for him, you have to understand, it was more important for him to talk about that and to even maybe protect its development. And so anybody can kind of look up Lomation dissectum. It's also called desert parsley or biscuit root, and it was so strong, believe it or not, even the Native Americans used to go fishing with it. They'd submerge the root in like a pond or water and it was so strong it would stun the fish Interesting.
Speaker 4:So this isn't just a little, you know, innocent plant or anything. It was a very strong medicine and again, with his condition you have to understand it was very important that he kind of protect, I think, that area. And so you know, given I think during our last expeditions we kind of thought, well, the hole's probably covered over and you know it's. You know we also wanted to, with due respect, kind of make sure that you know if his property or anything would come under you know further attention or seizure that that may interrupt the lomation dissectum development. You know we, I guess we just kind of thought well, you know, if something develops in the future, you know we'll hear about it, but we actually do believe the whole exists.
Speaker 2:We actually do believe the whole exists. Our guest tonight uh, charlotte and Phil, uh, from uh NW. I did, I get that right. Yes, right.
Speaker 4:NW museum of legends and more.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because when we talk about this herb that he had, he from the stories that were told he was cured right. Is that what the doctor said, that he had so much time to live and that some mysterious outcome prevailed to show that he was cancer-free? Is that correct?
Speaker 4:Yeah, Again, we got some brief emails from Mel and some brief emails from his nephew, Lewis. And yeah, Lewis, I think in an email mentioned that in one of his last checks up with the doctor and I want to quote him. He said, quote, Mel was cancer free. And I want to quote him. He said, quote Mel was cancer-free. And this was quite. It was great to hear because I think in some of the previous comments that Lois detailed that again, he had esophagealal cancer, sure, throat cancer or something to the point that a lot of his pills, fragments of the pills or medicine, whatever he was taking, was actually getting caught in his throat oh and uh, you know, I'd like to sit there and think if you listen to Mel early on and maybe later on his last programs he might sound better.
Speaker 4:He was, you know, pretty interesting and you know, of course, he went on to relate a second hole that he had found in Nevada. He went on to relay a second hole that he had found in Nevada, and again, quite a story, kind of bizarre, and how he sits there and says but there is a connection. It may sound odd, sure, it may sound odd.
Speaker 4:Sure it may sound bizarre, but there actually is a connection between the Menashtash Ridge hole and it's more so to do with the Native American plant and the Nevada hole, and we just became aware again. There's been an upsurge in interest in Nell's Hole. I want to say more, so it seems for us in the last month.
Speaker 2:It's interesting, you say that again.
Speaker 3:Partially because of that show. We mentioned Sure.
Speaker 2:So there's a show that we well, for all those who aren't listening or watching, as we were having a brief conversation before we started about the uptick that you guys were sharing about a documentary or a docuseries, or is it a television series on it's fictional? It's fictional, Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's available. I think it's based on Mel's whole.
Speaker 2:And this is on Netflix now.
Speaker 3:No, it's on Amazon Prime.
Speaker 2:Amazon Prime. Well, one of those.
Speaker 4:We believe it is a TV series. Essentially it's a series on Amazon Prime and it's called Outer Range and I guess it.
Speaker 2:Oh sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off there.
Speaker 4:Oh, and I guess it came out a couple years ago and I think this month they're going to be starting the second season. But we were just actually pretty amazed how close the story is to Mel's Hole. Outer Range is about a rancher who has what appears to be a bottomless pit on his property. He's in a rodeo town same as Ellensburg. There's a belt buckle in that TV series. Of course there's a Native American influence. There's even Buffalo in that series, which is there's a buffalo lynch Believe it or not Next to Menashtash Ridge and Mel actually liked buffalo. And there's a couple. There really is some kind of couple references. I mean, for us it's rather obvious that the series was Pretty much inspired by the story of Mel's Hole. There's no doubt Again. Actor Josh Brolin stars in it and he himself runs across anomalous objects.
Speaker 2:It's interesting that you you know, after the pandemic, how a lot of these stories have been redeveloped. I don't want to say have come back to the surface. Mel's hole, maybe it's the db cooper. There was one that was. They did a full series docuseries on them. I was like you need a, can't you just do this show in like one hour? You mean you need four episodes to do this document docuseries. And so everyone came to me and said you watch? And I said yeah, I got mad because you know, according. You know this is one of my daughter loves the most is she believes that db cooper was um, richard mccoy. She's like no, it's got to be richard mccoy. Now, that's who she thinks it is. She's. You know she's gonna turn 16, she doesn't. She's not much of a a conspiracy junkie, uh, but that that is one that she believes. And we, you know we watch, she goes right.
Speaker 4:This is the kind of kind of remind me if Richard McCoy was a suspect who had blue eyes, you can sit there and tell your daughter that without a doubt DB Cooper had dark eyes. We know that because we heard that first hand from FBI agent.
Speaker 3:Ralph Himmelsbach.
Speaker 4:Ralph Himmelsbach, who we invited this was years ago to our museum. So there's a couple things Alright, I'll tell her that Clues that we still have under our hats, that even the FBI has under their hats, that help them kind of sort out what's this, who's a suspect and who's not sure. Now, um, your daughter sounds like she might be a good investigator, though yeah, that, that, that that'd be true.
Speaker 2:um, so if we ever have time like this summer, maybe we'll go do some uh boots on the and what's interesting?
Speaker 2:to go back, and you know we've been to Ellensburg many of times and you know, either on our way to concerts or whatever, we'll stop by. Typically we'll stop in Ellensburg to grab something to eat and then we push forward all the way out to the gorge. Now, that whole area, including this piece here, when we talk about what is the mysterious hole that allegedly could be 80 000 feet deep possibly. Now there are scientifics, are scientific, scientific people have come and done their, supposedly have done the research on this. What's interesting to me, when you think about or talk about this and I go back to and I and I'm trying to find this piece that I had, that I pulled up just a moment ago about the hole that they said the line, the science behind it said there's no way that the line would have, it would have snapped if it was 80,000 feet, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:And what's interesting to me, the naysayers versus you know what's out there. I think what to me I find interesting about this hole is that if, if, what was, you know, allegedly told back in the day about this hole was taken over by some type of government agency to to secure the hole. Um, the stories, the legendary stories of what's? Either the dog that came back to life or these, uh, these beams of light that have come out of the hole. Now, when you talk to uh, then what was the? Uh? The native american's name. Again, I forget oh red elk right now.
Speaker 2:Now, his stories that I've seen online are just inspiring. I mean, kazee, too, also shares some really rich knowledge about the area. Uh, what were your guys's encounters with him?
Speaker 4:well, I okay. So again, years ago, when we first met red elk, um, he took us to a trailhead that he best remembers when his father showed him the hole years ago, when, when he was and of course he wasn't interested in any holes, and he claims he was looking down on it, like maybe he was on a ridge and he was looking at it from a higher elevation when his dad pointed it out to him Now he simply led us to the gate of the trailhead. And you know, again, menashtesh Ridge is huge and back then, even back then, when we first went on that trailhead, at that time the hole might have been covered over, because, again, mal mentioned that there was yellow gear on his property and you know the military had taken it over and such. But what we find out is again researching the area is that is, that ridge is Menashtash Ridge, there's Menashtash Road, again very large kind of remote area, very underdeveloped. So you're out there hiking on either Department of Natural Resources line or very kind of remote what I call more camping lots that maybe people had private property. So that maybe people had private property.
Speaker 4:So Red Elk was pretty interesting. I guess. What I'm trying to say is we're always kind of skeptical. It's like okay, we're very just kind of factual. Again, you may be able to explain some of the unusual things by, um, say, the black beam that comes out of the hole. I always kind of thought maybe that's just gas, like radon gas that's just deflecting light.
Speaker 4:That might be explainable, right, but um, and again we're, but again. Researchers always want hard facts.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 4:What? I will tell you that after that first meeting, we started to take him seriously, you know, despite everything that he was saying because we recalled him mentioning that there was going to be an earthquake.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 4:And you know, my first reaction was, as you know, not even our best geologists can predict earthquakes okay, you might get clusters of earthquakes, but it's like, hey, you know, that's a pretty pointed prediction, okay. Yeah, but I noted that, you know, and it was like, okay, he was talking about long walkers, about tunnels, that the hole connected to to Mount Rainier, and maybe our volcanic venting system. I don't know. He was talking all this. You know legends.
Speaker 2:Sure yeah.
Speaker 4:And you know, red Elk, my understanding is his background is Native American Blackfoot, his background is Native American Blackfoot, and again he was saying some pretty, you know far out things. To be quite frank, it was like, oh, you know, we were like skeptical, it's like okay.
Speaker 2:Sure, because you guys are, you're doing research out here and to hear, I think, anyone who is a researcher, you know, you, you, you want facts, as you were saying earlier. And when you start to hear legends, when you start to hear tales or these stories that are told that may have some type of lean to them, or there're there, there's no research behind them, they're just stories that are being either passed down through to him that he's been hurt, that that he heard, yeah. So then, yes, it it does become. You're like okay, noted, but you want to. You're like you're still looking for this. You're trying to weave through what is being told, to get the facts out of what is of these stories or these shared, you know, legendary stories.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Now what amazed us was 10 days later, we had the 2001 Esqually earthquake.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm Yep.
Speaker 2:I forget what magnitude that was was 60 something.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was, that was a good one. That one was like, and you know, again, I, I, from what we picked up and what I can surmise. You know, red elk is a bit of a sensitive. He claimed to know of and have knowledge of the people or the creatures down in that hole that were watching us. And he didn't think the Long Walkers were very friendly.
Speaker 2:Let's go back to Long Walkers. When you talk about long walkers, are we talking like sasquatch bigfoot long walkers? Are we talking about something completely different?
Speaker 4:I completely different. It's the first time I have ever heard that description or term or creature. I couldn't tell you what I mean. I'd have to gosh. We know that there were he was picking up on, maybe something entities down in the hole.
Speaker 3:He said in general there were people that lived underground and they were called long walkers and they were kind of dangerous.
Speaker 2:So like a city, a society underneath that lived underground and they were, they were called long walkers and they were kind of dangerous. So like a city, a society underneath it's the surface of this well, living in within mel's hole or wherever? No, no, but underground in general okay, wow so and that's what, and that's what you're talking about different different paths that go to, so probably like cities underneath the ground, I guess, right.
Speaker 3:Right right.
Speaker 4:Well, again there's how do I say, there's a lot of belief systems and things, and I believe even Red Elk had a comment about the creature that supposedly came out of the Nevada hole, the seal. And that was interesting because, again, he was just kind of he knew and there wasn't any question, and that's what was interesting about Red Elk. So I do got to sit there and say after that first day, and you know, we weren't asking, we weren't, you know, asking him for any information or stories or anything like that. I think he kind of knew we needed some information, that he is almost, let's say, a psychic sensitive or someone who is picking up information from the earth.
Speaker 4:I think he was more intuitive about nature and about what was going on maybe in that area.
Speaker 2:And yeah, it's interesting when you talk about this and you know the the people to hear this type of information, even for myself. Um, when you share this story, I do recall seeing red elk on film somewhere sharing these stories that you are now sharing with us again. It gives me chills to think that there's, possibly there could be possible life forms, or even long walkers. Is that right?
Speaker 4:To me it's scary, I mean when we go to sleep.
Speaker 2:I mean, who knows? You know this is interesting. You think about this because I'm starting, like, of all the interviews I've ever done since 2020 began, and when we talk about long walkers here, the thing that comes straight to my mind is the Sierra Sounds. From why can't I think of the gentleman's name, ron Moorhead, who was a Bigfoot, did Bigfoot research back in the day, and he has these sounds of these. To me it sounded like if anyone's ever watched cartoons I mean most people, I mean most people who are listening to radio these days had watched cartoons back in the day. But the Looney Tunes character of the Tasmanian Devil is what the sound of this, the Sierra sound sounded like to me and I wasn't trying to offend him, but this is what is close to me, is what it sounded like. So I related the sound to the cartoon of the Tasmanian devil and that was the noise that he recorded Interesting. I was like long walkers. I wonder if the long walkers were, could this have been part of their? Oh yeah, you have a picture Photo yeah.
Speaker 3:Unfortunately, he passed away in 2015 uh um right out yeah, right out yeah but he was on our bell quite a bit too actually yeah it.
Speaker 2:You know, when we talk about these legends and these stories that you've even heard and uh back through, and the biggest stigma to me is the word conspiracy. I think during the 2020 pandemic really took off to be almost like a bad word and I don't know. This definitely is not a conspiracy, but the phenomenon to me of this mysterious hole, of what could actually be down there, what, what does the government know? Does the government know anything? Is the land was? What was the land usage back in the day? Do you have any of those other than the?
Speaker 4:well, um, what? What I can tell you is you know anybody who may be familiar with Central Washington. I think even Art Bell knew the area because he seemed to recognize the area code 509. You know, art Bell was in the military, you know himself. But there is the Yakima Firing Range range, which is just located just south of the ridge. Okay, and a lot of people don't know that is a, it's a military base, it's a military firing range and so for, for military to maybe doing exercises or make some claims. You know was the so-called Mel's Hole. Did that maybe connect to some underground military-based venting or project that they wanted to kind of hide? You know, be a little more discreet about. You know, be a little more discreet about we don't know. But again, military was right there, um, and so I find that very interesting it's interesting you say that, that, that this was that area.
Speaker 2:There's so much that go that that area either being agricultural in that general area cattle, uh, obviously, which I just covered, the guy that in me to people doing some farming, uh, college town military installation. But the phenomenon of this whole, that even that he talked about this mystery that has been going on since, you know, probably since prior to 97, we actually went on, uh, onto our bell show, um, I can't believe it's 27 years.
Speaker 2:It's been 27 years, yeah I know I mean that's, that's. I mean that makes me feel old, because that's when I graduated high school. I mean, which is crazy to me to think that that was such a long time ago.
Speaker 4:That's a photo of Phillip with my dog.
Speaker 2:Now were you guys out. This was at Mel, in that general area.
Speaker 4:Again. We've been to Menashtash Ridge four times.
Speaker 3:We had an expedition. About 20 people actually went out there. I ran a library at that time and we met at 20 people actually went out there.
Speaker 2:I ran a library at that time and we we met at the library and went out there what's interesting, because a lot of that area now uh, I'm trying to think of the town prior to cle elam, which is, you know, they turn that, all that cle elam area, into like this little resort town and they have some, you know, people can kind of hang out, but that's kind of still in that general area, right, just just east.
Speaker 4:It's real Twin Peaks. Here it is. You have your good old country rodeo town next to you know, central Washington University, right, and you know it's quite a contrast, but it's, you know Ellensburg is still, you know, a small town, just kind of quiet, I think. Small town, um, just kind of quiet. I think, um, I don't think it has a huge history and other than the rare agate and I think some uh, technology developments over there, there's, there's uh, it still kind of has that sense of a feel of a small town.
Speaker 2:I was just looking to see what the distance between Mel's Hole and Cle Elum was. It's interesting because I like Cle Elum. But then there's Roslyn, which is further up from Cle Elum, that still kind of has that same feel to it as well, that Twin Peaks sea feel Also in Chehalis was they found crop circles. That's another another interesting connection yeah, you know it's interesting because you don't really hear about crop circles anymore not too much no, which is interesting to me, to I was like, hey, whatever happened to those?
Speaker 2:like it's like the fad went away. It's like, and we don't know what's there that anymore. It's too much time consuming. There's so many other things that we can record and do research on. The only time you think of crop circles now is like if Mayor's Farms and you're like, oh, that's pretty good that they were able to design this whole theme, whatever flyer that's in within the maze of the corn, that the, the whole flyer is now in their whatever. So, uh, shout out to to those guys, not that they're paying us or anything but very creative of the farm to be able to to pull that off, and because obviously no one's doing. You, you know crop circles anymore. But, um, as we get close to wrapping things up, is there something that, if, if, a takeaway that you guys could share with us? Uh, before you guys leave, um, I you know there's we're.
Speaker 4:This whole mystery is being, literally, is becoming very popular. It's kind of getting a resurrection. Apparently, if you go on YouTube or TikTok again, it might be attributed to the new Amazon Prime movie, outer Range. We've been getting quite a few calls, even from Japan, believe it or not. What I recommend to you and your listeners, if you get a chance, look up artbellfilesorg. They have the complete. I commend them. They have the complete transcripts and we ourselves are even pulling up our old files and the emails the few emails that we got from Mel and his nephew, and re-looking at this. Sure, I got to tell you this is a mystery you can really sink your teeth into. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We'll have the link of the audio from the original uh broadcast. Uh, from mel's uh whole, the the website is actually mel's wholeorg will have the audio linked in the podcast and the youtube stream. So if you're uh, you get to hang out and watch, watch the show and the stream. Uh, we'll have the audio available to you there if you'd like to watch or listen to the old um broadcast. You know it's funny when we talk about that type of show. It really.
Speaker 2:You know, someone busted my my hump the other day and I will try to do as much as we possibly can and if someone has something I always tell them email me, mario at on air mariocom. I may not get to it right away, but we'd love to hear your show ideas. Maybe there's a show that you want us to do, uh, like suggested here to do the mel's hole. Um, again, I I can't thank you guys enough. I wish the stuff that you guys do and when you guys get closer to uh halloween time, if you guys do anything, we'd love to have you guys come back in, because I know you guys were talking about haunts and stuff like that. Now you guys do anything. We'd love to have you guys come back in, because I know you guys were talking about haunts and stuff like that. Now you still do those. Do you guys still do any of those?
Speaker 4:We still do ghost tours. We love history and connecting with community. I love research. Mario, are you, your listeners, ever thinking of going out to Ellensburg and doing an expedition search for Mel's home?
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm sure someone wants to. I don't know that. Here's the thing about me. I need to go out more. I was like, oh, this might be a good one to go do yeah, you know, to take the camera. I have a drone now so I bought it.
Speaker 2:I bought a fancy drone that that, because I I can't hire a cameraman or camera person, I was gonna have the drone follow me through. Like my first experiment was to go through the haunted uh pike place market and have the drone follow me and kind of give that robert mack feel to it. Through the haunted uh pike place market and have the drone follow me and kind of give that robert mack feel to it, minus the, the you know, the, the coat, the, the, the you know, and kind of do the walk and talk like he did for the unsolved mystery stuff. But, um, when it came to do the these types of show, I really rely on like people like such as yourself, who are out there boots on ground, to share these stories with us, because there are people who are quite fascinated by this, who are afraid to go out.
Speaker 2:I figured it was my job to get people like yourselves to come on the show to share what you have. You know, what you've learned, what inspired you to do these things? Then to you know, to ask the question that someone behind someone who may be hanging out with us this evening might say ooh, that's a good question. I wanted to ask that one. You know, and that's really what this show was really premised. Obviously big fan of Art Bell, I'm not selling.
Speaker 2:The one thing that we don't do is we don't sell snake oil because we're not selling any medicinal things and things of that nature, not to knock any of the others, but that's just not what the show was about and that's not what this show is about. I'm not here to sell snake, I want to discover. I want to know what it is about Mel's Hole. I want to know what it is about DB Cooper, these other stories, the Bigfoot why haven't we found him? These burning questions that are asked as you talked about.
Speaker 2:You know, as we get close to ending prior, you just talking about these people, the long man or whatever, that you know what they were called, the. You know long walkers, these long walkers, these things freak me out as they should. But, um, these are great, legendary stories told by red elk that aren't available always to the average individual who may be going down the so-called wormhole, maybe what is called the Mel's hole, to discover, but they might not hear these stories about red elk because the vision of how they get through this wormhole to learn about Mel's hole may not have these side stories that branch out to what the research of what you guys have done. So I really appreciate you guys taking the time to hang out with us, to share those insights with us because, look, they're not always shared anymore. You know we're talking about almost a 30 year old. You know discovery that was brought to the forefront on a, on a show that I even listened to back in the day.
Speaker 3:So um, by the way, we do the burrito and ufo festival every year too.
Speaker 2:That's right, usually in august that's coming up, we're gonna have to have you guys come back on so you guys can promote it here, uh on the show. So as we get closer, well, we'll have you guys come on, like june, we got to promote that. And, and like I said, local, as I always tell everyone, my, my goal was for 2024 was to promote local and, to you know, to help support people like your guys itself, to promote and put the word out and say, hey, look, if you're looking for a cool, that's one. You know, my daughter and I will come out to you and if she's not with me then I'm coming to hang out. And if you guys need me to do anything, I'll volunteer to do whatever. If it's pass out flyers or, you know, yell in the microphone, I'll do that as well. But again, it's always a pleasure to have you both on, charlotte and Phil. Again, their website is nwlegendsmuseumcom. It'll be linked in the podcast as well as the YouTube video that'll come out. So again, thank you so much for taking the time to hang out with us this evening.
Speaker 2:As we conclude this uh show tonight, the voyage of the un, the voyage into the extraordinary, I want to express my deepest gratitudes to you, the listeners of us phenomenon. Your unwavering curiosity, passion for the unknown marks this journey through the cosmos and the corner of our reality possible To my daughter, the beacon of inspiration and joy of my life, thank you for reminding me every day that the greatest mysteries are not just out there in this vast universe, but also in our loving hearts of our home. As your host, mario, I leave you with this thought Keep your eyes gaze fixed to the stars and mind open to the possibilities that may question we pondered tonight, spark conversation and inspire dreams and remind us that we all are part of the grand mysterious phenomenon. Good night, and remember the adventure never ends, it only transforms. Until next time, keep your eye, keep exploring, keep questioning and keep the spirit of discovery alive. Good night.
